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misty60481
06-03-2007, 10:24 PM
I have been Sox fan over 60 yrs.. so naturally I saw a lot more games at the old park... I think Frank Thomas was the best hitter the Sox ever had... I was reading an article in paper were he said he thought 500 hrs... would automatically get him in HOF.. I think he belongs first ballot no doubt,, I saw he has 495 homers so far,, if any of you ever remember old Comiskey before the fence was put up in center field for bull pen,, it was one of the hardest parks in baseball to hit home runs in...Do you think Frank would have been anywhere close to 500 home runs if he played his career there.. I think about 350 would be more like it,, but I think he would probably be closing in on 700 doubles and add about 10 points to his lifetime BA..I m in no way trying to make him seem any less a hitter,,

hose
06-03-2007, 10:35 PM
I can remember when they took the fence down in CF and it was 445 to the wall.:o:

misty60481
06-03-2007, 10:38 PM
You remember how high it was ???

Nellie_Fox
06-04-2007, 02:03 AM
You remember how high it was ???Probably 30'. No way the old park would have taken 150 homers away from Frank. Do you think he hit 150 homers to straight away center at home? Not likely.

Even with the other dimension being larger, you really think the old park would have taken away 30% of his total homers, just in home games? That's crazy.

Dibbs
06-04-2007, 02:42 AM
New Comiskey was one of the hardest parks to hit homeruns in for a long time while Frank was cranking out the majority of his career homeruns.

WhiteSox5187
06-04-2007, 04:43 AM
Probably 30'. No way the old park would have taken 150 homers away from Frank. Do you think he hit 150 homers to straight away center at home? Not likely.

Even with the other dimension being larger, you really think the old park would have taken away 30% of his total homers, just in home games? That's crazy.
As I recall Frank didn't hit a lot of homeruns to dead center, he could hit 'em all over the place, but I think if he played his whole career at Comiskey maybe he would have 470ish? I'm willing to bet though that he woulda hit a couple in the CF bleachers.

I'm only twenty so I don't remember Old Comiskey that well.:whiner:

tebman
06-04-2007, 10:13 AM
Probably 30'. No way the old park would have taken 150 homers away from Frank. Do you think he hit 150 homers to straight away center at home? Not likely.

Even with the other dimension being larger, you really think the old park would have taken away 30% of his total homers, just in home games? That's crazy.
I think you're right, Nellie. Thomas might have lost a few homers if he'd played in the old park, but not that many. Frank's a pure hitter and would've had extra-base hits in huge numbers no matter where he played.

I looked up the specs on the old park from ballparksofbaseball.com and found these dimensions:

Dimensions: 362-L, 420-C, 365-R (original), 347-L, 407-C, 347-R (final)

And here's a picture showing the CF wall way out there at 420' from the plate:

http://www.ballparksofbaseball.com/past/comiskey50's.jpg

Fenway
06-04-2007, 10:37 AM
I saw Tony Armas put a ball INTO the bleachers around 1984-5. I *think* he hit it off Tom Seaver

tebman
06-04-2007, 11:19 AM
I saw Tony Armas put a ball INTO the bleachers around 1984-5. I *think* he hit it off Tom Seaver
Dick Allen did that too on August 23, 1972. There's audio of it here (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=14&id=2361) and is memorable also because Harry Caray was calling the game from the centerfield bleachers that day and saw the homer land not far from his seat.

I'm sure it was done a few times over the years, but not many. Lip probably has the details on who hit it there on what dates.

TDog
06-04-2007, 11:46 AM
I can remember when they took the fence down in CF and it was 445 to the wall.:o:


When I was in college, I was covering a game as a photography in the first-base photo box, and Ken Henderson, playing for the Rangers, hit a ball off the deep wall in center, where it angled from right field. It didn't bounce back toward the infield, but toward the 445 sign. Of course, Henderson got a stand-up inside-the-park home run.

I liked the big dimensions. Home runs meant something in those days. Even when Bill Melton was playing, with dead center was 400 feet away, there weren't any cheap home runs. The ball really didn't carry well on most days either.

soxinem1
06-04-2007, 11:53 AM
Dick Allen did that too on August 23, 1972. There's audio of it here (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=14&id=2361) and is memorable also because Harry Caray was calling the game from the centerfield bleachers that day and saw the homer land not far from his seat.

I'm sure it was done a few times over the years, but not many. Lip probably has the details on who hit it there on what dates.

I remember George Bell putting one in the bleachers and two on the roof in one series against Toronto in 1985.

I remember the shot Armas hit off Seaver in 1984 too, as the Sox blew a 6-0 lead in that game.

But Allen's shot was more credible that Armas' or Bell's exploits, as the plate was moved up from 1983-85.

One of the great torpedos I ever saw was Rob Deer hitting a roof shot off Seaver Opening Day in 1986. I remember sitting in the LF upper deck and Deer chushing a missle. Hawk moved the plate back and in the first ghame with the revised dimensions Deer put one on the moon. I knew that season would be bad when that happened............

Fenway
06-04-2007, 12:04 PM
Another one I saw was when Oil Can Boyd served a meatball to Greg Luzinski that was last seen rolling past 33rd St



Oil Can gave up some beauts. The one I rememember most happened in spring training in 1988 or 89. It was at the old Boardwalk and Baseball Park (http://www.dizzyrambler.com/index.html?legends/ThemeParks/BnB/BnB.html~mainFrame)the Royals used. Bo Jackson just crushed a ball.

The ball was still rising when it went over the scoreboard and landed in the parking lot and it was estimated to have gone 550 feet.

http://baseballpilgrimages.com/spring/baseballcity2.jpg

Law11
06-04-2007, 12:09 PM
man I miss that place... My whole childhood was embedded in that place..
It just smelled like a ballpark.. Old stogies, beer, peanut shells that seemed lackered into the ground... Man the memories I have of the hundreds of games there as a tiny kid, then into all of teen years there..

I found a few hundred pictures I took over the years from every corner of the park. My goal this summer is to scan them in and get them on disk.

russ99
06-04-2007, 12:25 PM
Wow. I forgot how far the stands were from the plate in the old park.

I really miss wandering around the park as a kid, sitting where I could until the Andy Frains kicked me out.

I especially miss the picnic area, that patch of walkway under the CF bleachers, the ramps behind the scoreboard and the view from the upper deck in the outfield, and being able to go to both the lower and upper decks during a game.

Granted, the new park is really nice, but I have lots of memories about the old yard.

TDog
06-04-2007, 12:26 PM
Probably 30'. No way the old park would have taken 150 homers away from Frank. Do you think he hit 150 homers to straight away center at home? Not likely.

Even with the other dimension being larger, you really think the old park would have taken away 30% of his total homers, just in home games? That's crazy.

People used to say that Ernie Banks' home runs would be home runs anywhere. I'm not sure about that. I'm sure there were a few Frank Thomas home runs that were deep flies that barely drifted out of play. The three-run homer that tied the Indians with two out in the ninth the Sunday afternoon that Royce Clayton wasn't wearing his spikes was one such home run. There probably were a few more. Certainly not 150.

I used to wonder how many home runs Dick Allen would have hit in 1972 had the Sox been playing in the 1983-configured Old Comiskey, which was still bigger than the new park. But when I see a hitter go into a bandbox and expect him to amass obscenely high home run totals, I usually find pitchers pitch to the dimensions of the park.

This is a question with too many variables to answer.

southside rocks
06-04-2007, 01:08 PM
man I miss that place... My whole childhood was embedded in that place..
It just smelled like a ballpark.. Old stogies, beer, peanut shells that seemed lackered into the ground... Man the memories I have of the hundreds of games there as a tiny kid, then into all of teen years there..


Same here, except I didn't go to a game until I was 11. But there were summers after that when I just about lived at the park. I will never forget the emotions I felt when I walked up the ramp and saw the field, each time I got there.

tebman
06-04-2007, 02:41 PM
I can remember when they took the fence down in CF and it was 445 to the wall.:o:
I think that was in 1976, Veeck's first year back. The outfield dimensions waxed and waned through the years by installing fences, putting the bullpen in center field behind a green fence, and moving home plate in or out depending on the team's mood that year.

In 1910 there were just wooden bleachers in the outfield, so the original 420' CF depth listed in that ballpark website would have been for that design. In 1927 the familiar upper deck layout was built all around the outfield, which changed the layout at the outfield wall.

But whether it's 420' or 445', that's still a hell of a long way for a ball to travel to make it into those centerfield bleachers, especially after 1927 when that high wall in CF was in place.

Law11
06-04-2007, 04:55 PM
Same here, except I didn't go to a game until I was 11. But there were summers after that when I just about lived at the park. I will never forget the emotions I felt when I walked up the ramp and saw the field, each time I got there.

Yep, those ramps... All the misc art ,murals on the walls, leading up to the seats, looking down on all the concessions below as you walked up glove in hand... Then boom you were there in the Upper Deck clammering to get to your seats..

or entering in at home plate and walking up those few stairs as the park just opened up around you coming though the entrance to the Golden Box seats, Giant scoreboard in front of you.. Man the excitement was unreal for me...

I wonder if kids today have that feeling of just utter anticipation going to games.. Seeing the stadium from down 35th around Halsted or so and yelling "there it is, i see the lights!" (those giant flyswatter light fixtures) that was me..

tick53
06-04-2007, 06:45 PM
I have been Sox fan over 60 yrs.. so naturally I saw a lot more games at the old park... I think Frank Thomas was the best hitter the Sox ever had... I was reading an article in paper were he said he thought 500 hrs... would automatically get him in HOF.. I think he belongs first ballot no doubt,, I saw he has 495 homers so far,, if any of you ever remember old Comiskey before the fence was put up in center field for bull pen,, it was one of the hardest parks in baseball to hit home runs in...Do you think Frank would have been anywhere close to 500 home runs if he played his career there.. I think about 350 would be more like it,, but I think he would probably be closing in on 700 doubles and add about 10 points to his lifetime BA..I m in no way trying to make him seem any less a hitter,,

I remember it as if it were yesterday. Ah, Old Comiskey!!

PeteWard
06-05-2007, 01:07 AM
Remember when they had the P.A speakers on the top of the wall? Jim Rice hit one in the late 70's.

Also the shower out there and the Sox-O-Gram and the singing peanut vendor...all gone gone, gone.:whiner:

WhiteSox5187
06-05-2007, 01:23 AM
Dick Allen did that too on August 23, 1972. There's audio of it here (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/rwas/index.php?category=14&id=2361) and is memorable also because Harry Caray was calling the game from the centerfield bleachers that day and saw the homer land not far from his seat.

I'm sure it was done a few times over the years, but not many. Lip probably has the details on who hit it there on what dates.
I know that Richie Zisk and Dick Allen are the only two players for the White Sox to ever launch a homerun into the CF bleachers, I'm not sure about other teams. I wonder, who was the last guy to hit a roof shot? I know that Alvin Davis hit the last HR in Old Comiskey, but was that a roof shot? Was it Ron Kittle?

NoShoesJoe
06-05-2007, 10:40 AM
Probably 30'. No way the old park would have taken 150 homers away from Frank. Do you think he hit 150 homers to straight away center at home? Not likely.

Even with the other dimension being larger, you really think the old park would have taken away 30% of his total homers, just in home games? That's crazy.


Remember he only played there a couple of years. At my best guess, it'd maybe and this is a big maybe, take 25 away.

MinnieMinoso
06-05-2007, 11:09 AM
man I miss that place... My whole childhood was embedded in that place..
It just smelled like a ballpark.. Old stogies, beer, peanut shells that seemed lackered into the ground... Man the memories I have of the hundreds of games there as a tiny kid, then into all of teen years there..

I found a few hundred pictures I took over the years from every corner of the park. My goal this summer is to scan them in and get them on disk.

I miss it too. When you mentioned the smell it brought that memory back to me. I went to a game, probably about 1949, when the Red Sox came to Chicago. Vern (Junior) Stephens hit a ball off that center field wall and later hit a line drive off one of the steel girders in the left field upper deck. Walt Dropo also homered, and Teddy Williams hit one into the right field upper deck. It was a big rainbow shot that I'll never forget. Man, could that team hit.
Speaking of the amount of homers for Frank, if todays ballplayers played in the conditions of that era, meaning the deader baseball and bigger parks, I don't think a lot of them would see home run totals like we see now. Just an opinion from an old guy.

ewokpelts
06-05-2007, 11:52 AM
I have been Sox fan over 60 yrs.. so naturally I saw a lot more games at the old park... I think Frank Thomas was the best hitter the Sox ever had... I was reading an article in paper were he said he thought 500 hrs... would automatically get him in HOF.. I think he belongs first ballot no doubt,, I saw he has 495 homers so far,, if any of you ever remember old Comiskey before the fence was put up in center field for bull pen,, it was one of the hardest parks in baseball to hit home runs in...Do you think Frank would have been anywhere close to 500 home runs if he played his career there.. I think about 350 would be more like it,, but I think he would probably be closing in on 700 doubles and add about 10 points to his lifetime BA..I m in no way trying to make him seem any less a hitter,,so, is this an old comiskey post, or frank thomas post?

ewokpelts
06-05-2007, 11:53 AM
Remember he only played there a couple of years. At my best guess, it'd maybe and this is a big maybe, take 25 away.
he played there for 2 1/2 months. there's no real way to determine how many the old park would have taken away from him. but i have a feeling he would have adjusted.

Fenway
06-05-2007, 12:23 PM
This thread is a good place to put this link in

http://img.youtube.com/vi/BRuGX-CCZEo/2.jpg (http://youtube.com/watch?v=BRuGX-CCZEo)

A TRIBUTE TO COMISKEY PARK (http://youtube.com/watch?v=BRuGX-CCZEo)
06:29
A beautiful, moving tribute to an old friend, albeit an edifice, and the players who graced us with their presence there. A beautiful, moving tribute to an old friend, albeit an edifice, and the players who graced us with their
presence there

eriqjaffe
06-05-2007, 12:48 PM
I know that Richie Zisk and Dick Allen are the only two players for the White Sox to ever launch a homerun into the CF bleachers, I'm not sure about other teams. I wonder, who was the last guy to hit a roof shot? I know that Alvin Davis hit the last HR in Old Comiskey, but was that a roof shot? Was it Ron Kittle?Yes, it was Ron Kittle on 4/17/90.

I actually found this old thread (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-6926.html) when I googled "comiskey 'roof shots'", which also has a list of all the CF bleacher shots:

Jimmie Foxx 5/18/34 v. Ted Lyons
Hank Greenberg 5/27/38 v. Frank Gabler
Alex Johnson 9/19/70 v. Billy Wynne
Dick Allen 8/23/72 v. Lindy McDaniel
Richie Zisk 5/22/77 v. Dave Rozema
Tony Armas 4/28/84 v. Tom Seaver
George Bell 8/23/85 v. Dave Wehrmeister

I noticed in that thread that Jose Canseco hit a roof shot - I think I was at that game, does anybody know what date that game was?

duke of dorwood
06-05-2007, 05:04 PM
I know that Richie Zisk and Dick Allen are the only two players for the White Sox to ever launch a homerun into the CF bleachers, I'm not sure about other teams. I wonder, who was the last guy to hit a roof shot? I know that Alvin Davis hit the last HR in Old Comiskey, but was that a roof shot? Was it Ron Kittle?

I think Frank Howard did it when on the Senators.

The high walls in the OF took many HR away-especially between the 375 sign in LF and the bull pen fence. Nothing like a ball hitting the picnic area fence while you were eating there

southside rocks
06-05-2007, 05:41 PM
Yep, those ramps... All the misc art ,murals on the walls, leading up to the seats, looking down on all the concessions below as you walked up glove in hand... Then boom you were there in the Upper Deck clammering to get to your seats..

or entering in at home plate and walking up those few stairs as the park just opened up around you coming though the entrance to the Golden Box seats, Giant scoreboard in front of you.. Man the excitement was unreal for me...

I wonder if kids today have that feeling of just utter anticipation going to games.. Seeing the stadium from down 35th around Halsted or so and yelling "there it is, i see the lights!" (those giant flyswatter light fixtures) that was me..

I would buy a grandstand ticket for $1.75 and sit in right field, the stands were almost empty most of the time and a lot of the fans were older men from the surrounding neighborhoods, talking about games from 20 years before when the Go-Go Sox played ... I'd bring my spiral-bound scorebook and meticulously record every play. It was relaxing and rejuvenating, to spend an afternoon there.

Given the won-loss records in those years, the players probably found it a little less enjoyable than I did. But heck, what else was Marv Staehle going to do for a living?! :tongue:

tony1972
06-05-2007, 08:37 PM
I became a big fan during the summer of 1990 and attended about 15 games the last year at the old park..

I'm glad I did...and sometimes I still miss it...

Medford Bobby
06-06-2007, 11:40 AM
Need a ticket for today's game? 1914 Sox fans show up.....:D:
http://memory.loc.gov/ndlpcoop/ichicdn/s0600/s060033.jpg

soxfan13
06-06-2007, 11:56 AM
I know that Richie Zisk and Dick Allen are the only two players for the White Sox to ever launch a homerun into the CF bleachers, I'm not sure about other teams. I wonder, who was the last guy to hit a roof shot? I know that Alvin Davis hit the last HR in Old Comiskey, but was that a roof shot? Was it Ron Kittle?

Jimmie Foxx, Hank Greenberg, Alex Johnson, Tony Armas and George Bell hit them into the centerfield bleachers for other teams. :gulp:

Lip Man 1
06-06-2007, 12:56 PM
The last player to hit a roof top home run at the original Comiskey Park was Ron Kittle off Boston's Rob Murphy on 4/17/90.

The last opposing player with a roof top home run was Baltimore's Larry Sheets off 'Bullet' Bob James on 5/9/87.

Lip

eriqjaffe
06-06-2007, 01:24 PM
I noticed in that thread that Jose Canseco hit a roof shot - I think I was at that game, does anybody know what date that game was?Answering my own question - 9/22/85. I know Canseco hit a monster home run that day. In fact, at the time, Canseco was a September call-up that I hadn't heard of, and he only had 2 or 3 homers. My dad and I joked with each other about, "He only has 3 homers! No power!" Jose shut us up pretty quick.

WhiteSox5187
06-06-2007, 04:23 PM
Answering my own question - 9/22/85. I know Canseco hit a monster home run that day. In fact, at the time, Canseco was a September call-up that I hadn't heard of, and he only had 2 or 3 homers. My dad and I joked with each other about, "He only has 3 homers! No power!" Jose shut us up pretty quick.
I think it was the steroids that shut you up, not Jose.

DoItForDanPasqua
06-06-2007, 10:45 PM
http://www.ballparktour.com/Comiskey_Park_Dia.gifhttp://www.andrewclem.com/Baseball/Diag/USCellularField.gif

Nellie_Fox
06-07-2007, 01:47 AM
http://www.ballparktour.com/Comiskey_Park_Dia.gifThe dimensions of the old park depends on the year. The biggest I found was 352 down the lines, 382 in the alleys, and 445 to center. The 409 you are showing here was when the bullpen was in center. With the bullpen down the lines it was 440-445.

soxfan13
06-07-2007, 08:48 AM
The dimensions of the old park depends on the year. The biggest I found was 352 down the lines, 382 in the alleys, and 445 to center. The 409 you are showing here was when the bullpen was in center. With the bullpen down the lines it was 440-445.

Dont forget the mini green monster :gulp:

eriqjaffe
06-07-2007, 09:25 AM
I think it was the steroids that shut you up, not Jose.Well, if I had known then what I know now...

misty60481
06-07-2007, 09:52 AM
I also remember going to games in mid and late 40s..We went on Sun.. because it was a double-header.. If you got there early enough you could watch batting practice.. I remember seeing the Red Sox take batting practice and they really put on a show.. Ted Willoams hit 2 or 3 on roof,, like you said they went so high you could hardly see them.. In the game he didnt do anything but Bobby Doerr hit couple over the old scoreboard that was in the wall in left-center,, it was manually operated..

My dad worked for a company that had a season box a few rows up from visitors dugout,, so early in year we would pick out about 3 or 4 games--always Sun..--and go.. We usually saw Yankees,,Red Sox,, or Indians.. I remember seeing Satchel Paige,,Joe DoMaggio,, and a lot of stars from that era.. Lots of good old memories----