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DumpJerry
06-02-2007, 02:52 PM
:angry: is all I have to say.

Can I have the past three hours of my life back?

Frater Perdurabo
06-02-2007, 02:52 PM
What an embarassment.

Sox hitters can't hit bullpen pitchers.

Sox bullpen pitchers can't get opposing hitters out.

What a recipe!

chisoxmike
06-02-2007, 02:52 PM
You knew the game was over when Thome, Dye, Konerko couldn't bring Iguchi home from third.

We suck.

Scottiehaswheels
06-02-2007, 02:53 PM
Anyone know if Hermanson is available to sign? I'd take a guy with a back brace over these guys right now.

JB98
06-02-2007, 02:53 PM
Our hitters don't do much against opposing relief pitchers.

Frater Perdurabo
06-02-2007, 02:53 PM
Anyone know if Hermanson is available to sign?

Cliff Politte might be an improvement at this point.

hi im skot
06-02-2007, 02:54 PM
Your move, Kenny.

russ99
06-02-2007, 02:54 PM
Time for Kenny to work the phones.

KyWhiSoxFan
06-02-2007, 02:54 PM
Our hitters don't do much against opposing relief pitchers.

But things average out in baseball ... Their hitters bat about.400 against our relief pitchers.

Frater Perdurabo
06-02-2007, 02:54 PM
Since the Rangers definitely are done, is there any chance they would trade Akinori Otsuka to the Sox?

sox1970
06-02-2007, 02:55 PM
If I'm Kenny, I'm DL-ing MacDougal, and sending Aardsma down TODAY.

MikeLove
06-02-2007, 02:56 PM
heads better roll. someone needs to get sent down

russ99
06-02-2007, 02:57 PM
If I'm Kenny, I'm DL-ing MacDougal, and sending Aardsma down TODAY.

And bringing up one of the aformentioned guys from AAA and making a deal for a major leaguer.

If we're throwing out ridiculous Set-up man trade possibilities, I'll throw on the pile: Linebrink from SD.

soxfanatlanta
06-02-2007, 02:57 PM
heads better roll. someone needs to get sent down

Or released.

ChiSox14305635
06-02-2007, 02:57 PM
Ever since Aardsma gave up that 2 run shot to Marcus Thames in Detroit, he has not been the same pitcher.

Right now, only Jenks is a sure thing. If you had to pick another option, maybe Thornton & Masset. Everybody else, not so much right now.

Try to get the split tomorrow I guess.

hose
06-02-2007, 02:58 PM
Time to send Aardsma down to the minors or just give him his release.

No way should the Sox have lost this game, no way:angry: :angry: :angry:

SoxxoS
06-02-2007, 02:59 PM
I wouldnt want to be a Buffet table right now

Frater Perdurabo
06-02-2007, 02:59 PM
If I was KW, I would be calling teams like the Rangers, Rockies and Nats, to see what they would need for their best bullpen pitchers.

Akinori Otsuka, Brian Fuentes and Chad Cordero would be a good start.

KyWhiSoxFan
06-02-2007, 02:59 PM
The bullpen has lost the lead in 8 games (at least) when the Sox had a lead in the 7th inning. This is pitiful. If the Sox had a lockdown bullpen, they would be ahead in the wild card by games.

DickAllen72
06-02-2007, 02:59 PM
You knew the game was over when Thome, Dye, Konerko couldn't bring Iguchi home from third.

The lack of production from the middle of our order has been killing us all season. The bullpen is a mess.

Sal Fasano starts the rally for the Jays with a bunt. Smart baseball.

On the bright side, the Sox are playing .500 ball the last two days after playing .000 ball the previous five. :bandance:

pagansoxfan
06-02-2007, 02:59 PM
macsuckle is beyond brutal. all the guy does is give up runs, or @ least puts runners on base. aardsma was obviiously figured out. paging steve fireovid!

JB98
06-02-2007, 03:00 PM
0-for-47 and 5-for-78 against opposing relievers. It's time to send Aardsma to Charlotte. He can't get a breaking ball over. He's a one-pitch pitcher, and he has no command of his fastball. This bullpen not only blows leads, it makes sure we lose the game by six runs. 11-5 vs. the Devil Rays, 10-4 vs. the Twins and now 9-3 today. We had leads in the sixth or seventh inning in all three of those games.

MarySwiss
06-02-2007, 03:00 PM
Well, for once I'm glad a game was blacked out. From what I'm reading, I would not have wanted to see this.

Bright side? Okay, let's try this. Last year, we were competitive right up until the end and didn't make the playoffs. So who knows? I'd rather be seeing this in April-May than in August-September.

Of course, if we see it in both, then we're screwed. :(:

Jjav829
06-02-2007, 03:01 PM
Remember that thread like 3 weeks into the season about this being the best bullpen ever?

Those were the days...

hose
06-02-2007, 03:01 PM
What the heck is going on with the Sox inability to even score a run against the opponents bullpen ?

Martinigirl
06-02-2007, 03:01 PM
You knew the game was over when Thome, Dye, Konerko couldn't bring Iguchi home from third.



As soon as that happened I knew it would bite us in the ass later.

I keep trying to be optimistic, knowing we have a lot of baseball left, and that we are not that far out if it in the loss column. But when you watch us play, and you see how bad we can look, it is hard not to feel like the sky is falling. It feels like we are a lot farther out if it than we actually are.

JB98
06-02-2007, 03:02 PM
And bringing up one of the aformentioned guys from AAA and making a deal for a major leaguer.

If we're throwing out ridiculous Set-up man trade possibilities, I'll throw on the pile: Linebrink from SD.

The Padres are right in the race. They won't do that. I agree with Frater's idea. See what we can get from Texas or Colorado.

hose
06-02-2007, 03:03 PM
Remember that thread like 3 weeks into the season about this being the best bullpen ever?

Those were the days...

That's about the only thing I can get a chuckle about when that bald headed Aardsma is serving it up .

I hear that yo ho crap one more time and I'm chucking the radio out the window. ARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHH:angry:

Frater Perdurabo
06-02-2007, 03:03 PM
0-for-47 against opposing relievers

Didn't Robin Ventura go 0-47 to start his first full MLB season?

What's more damning is that this lineup is supposedly filled with seasoned, professional hitters.

I hate to use this over-used tag, but I hate the way this team is playing even more:

:chunks

TheOldRoman
06-02-2007, 03:03 PM
Our hitters don't do much against opposing relief pitchers.
Or starters for that matter. They were facing garbage today. Pure ****ing garbage. After getting three runs, they went home. Completely inexcusable. When you quietly sit down 15 in a row (or however many the hitters did) you build momentum for the other team, especially with after failing to get a guy home from 3rd with no outs, and especially with how poorly our bullpen has been. The Jays had **** on the mound, and were able to stay right in it, just long enough to win.
Greg Walker is back in Chicago at his daughter's high school graduation. Hopefully the Sox tell him not to bother catching a flight back, and not to bother coming to the park on Monday. This team being horrible starts and ends with the offense. The pitching is horrible right now, but it is 90% mental. There is no excuse for how ****ty it has been, but the offense puts the stress on them daily, as it has the entire year, and eventually they broke from the stress.
Something needs to happed. Walker needs to be fired immediately. Trades need to be made, and guys need to be sent down. This is all about momentum. If moves are made to shake things up, we can succeed.

TheOldRoman
06-02-2007, 03:04 PM
heads better roll. someone needs to get sent down

Or released.
Or fired *cough*Greg Walker*cough*

chisoxfan79
06-02-2007, 03:05 PM
The Padres are right in the race. They won't do that. I agree with Frater's idea. See what we can get from Texas or Colorado.
Give up anybody but Danks and Gio for Cordero anybody major or minor leagues

chisoxmike
06-02-2007, 03:05 PM
Remember that thread like 3 weeks into the season about this being the best bullpen ever?

Those were the days...

Yeah, that was insane, in spring training I thought this bullpen was weak. I was impressed when the season started, but didn't expect it to last long.

GlassSox
06-02-2007, 03:06 PM
What an embarassment.

Sox hitters can't hit bullpen pitchers.

Sox bullpen pitchers can't get opposing hitters out.

What a recipe!

You hit the nail on the head!

The bullpen sucks and MacDougal and Aardsma must disappear until they remember how to pitch again!

Better yet to solve both issues you mention, we need to have MLB change games from 9 innings to 6 innings.

chisoxfan79
06-02-2007, 03:06 PM
Or fired *cough*Greg Walker*cough*
You know the game went south after they showed A.J. with that Walker Jersey on I think Walk is the Kiss of death

Frater Perdurabo
06-02-2007, 03:06 PM
The Padres are right in the race. They won't do that. I agree with Frater's idea. See what we can get from Texas or Colorado.

I think we need to raid as many bottom-feeding teams as possible. Safety in numbers. This team needs an entirely new bullpen, other than Jenks and Masset and perhaps Thornton. They way Ozzie likes to use the bullpen, he needs a bunch of guys who can go in, throw strikes, get outs and hold/close games.

spiffie
06-02-2007, 03:07 PM
Or fired *cough*Greg Walker*cough*
While I don't know if it would have any tangible impact on the team, at least it would send a message that there will be some accountability for these poor performances. Fire Walker and send Mac and/or Aardsma to AAA. Something to show that there will be something more than just people yelling and scowling and talking about how embarassed they are by all of this. Like I said, I don't know if any hitting coach will improve things, but it might at least serve as a slap in the face to some guys to get it going. Or not. Who knows at this point?

JB98
06-02-2007, 03:07 PM
Didn't Robin Ventura go 0-47 to start his first full MLB season?

What's more damning is that this lineup is supposedly filled with seasoned, professional hitters.

I hate to use this over-used tag, but I hate the way this team is playing even more:

:chunks

You look at that fifth inning. Iguchi works a walk, swipes a bag, goes to third on the error. No outs. JT? JD? PK? Mack? Anybody home? Anyone want to knock in a run? Guess not.

chisoxfan79
06-02-2007, 03:08 PM
I am wearing my Bears Jersey to the game Monday Night

Paulwny
06-02-2007, 03:10 PM
I think we need to raid as many bottom-feeding teams as possible. .

Contending teams now look at the sox as a bottom feeding team.

102605
06-02-2007, 03:11 PM
And bringing up one of the aformentioned guys from AAA and making a deal for a major leaguer.

If we're throwing out ridiculous Set-up man trade possibilities, I'll throw on the pile: Linebrink from SD.

Never going to happen. Why would the Padres breakup their bullpen. It is the best in baseball. We're more likely to send them Dye for some AAA SP's.

soxfanatlanta
06-02-2007, 03:12 PM
While I don't know if it would have any tangible impact on the team, at least it would send a message that there will be some accountability for these poor performances. Fire Walker and send Mac and/or Aardsma to AAA. Something to show that there will be something more than just people yelling and scowling and talking about how embarassed they are by all of this. Like I said, I don't know if any hitting coach will improve things, but it might at least serve as a slap in the face to some guys to get it going. Or not. Who knows at this point?

+1

Management needs to at least look like they are doing something. Rebuilding a bullpen mid-season is highly unlikely unless you want to gut the team of contract year players. And even then, they won't get much in return; they just cannot hit.

Nothing to be done...:dunno:

102605
06-02-2007, 03:12 PM
You know the game went south after they showed A.J. with that Walker Jersey on I think Walk is the Kiss of death

Why was AJ wearing a Walker jersey?

valkyrie
06-02-2007, 03:14 PM
The Padres are right in the race. They won't do that. I agree with Frater's idea. See what we can get from Texas or Colorado.

I wouldn't mind seeing Manny Corpas traded to the Sox -- he's doing well and has great potential. Although the Rockies are pretty stupid, I hope they're not stupid enough to give up Fuentes (I'm saying this as a Sox fan living in Denver who doesn't want the Rockies to suck too much). I can't imagine he'd be happy to go from closer to middle reliever, and isn't that what would happen if he came to the Sox?

soxfanatlanta
06-02-2007, 03:14 PM
Why was AJ wearing a Walker jersey?

Love of lefty's? :dunno:

TRL
06-02-2007, 03:14 PM
Yeah, I think getting bullpen guys from bottom feeders is a great idea. I has worked out great getting MacDougal and Sisco from the Royals.

Frater Perdurabo
06-02-2007, 03:16 PM
Contending teams now look at the sox as a bottom feeding team.

The difference is that even now, the season is not lost. It's not at all hopeless. But it would be futile to sit back and just expect some of these guys to just start performing better.

Aardsma, MacDougal, Sisco, all these guys came to the Sox with a reputation for having strong arms but being unable to find the plate. Nothing has changed, except that earlier in the season opposing hitters chased balls out of the strike zone. Now that they have been scouted, opposing hitters know they can just rest their bat on their shoulder until they get a 2-0 or 3-1 count, and then can swing at the meatball that is sure to come right down the middle of the plate, or rest for one or two more pitches and take the walk? A worthless, POS fat lard like me could work a walk against MacDougal or Aardsma.

KW just needs to go pry the closers away from Colorado, Washington and Texas. The bullpen instantly would be far better.

BoysMom3
06-02-2007, 03:16 PM
I thought the tide was starting to turn for the Sox at the beginning of this game. I guess not. :angry:

hi im skot
06-02-2007, 03:17 PM
Why was AJ wearing a Walker jersey?

With Walker back in Chicago for his daughter's graduation, AJ declared himself the batting coach for today's game.

Rongey and Farmer both made mention of it today.

JB98
06-02-2007, 03:17 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing Manny Corpas traded to the Sox -- he's doing well and has great potential. Although the Rockies are pretty stupid, I hope they're not stupid enough to give up Fuentes (I'm saying this as a Sox fan living in Denver who doesn't want the Rockies to suck too much). I can't imagine he'd be happy to go from closer to middle reliever, and isn't that what would happen if he came to the Sox?

I don't know much about Corpas. IMO, the Sox need some veteran relief pitching. Part of the problem with the current bullpen is a lack of experience. It's a very small part of the problem, but it's a problem nonetheless.

spiffie
06-02-2007, 03:18 PM
With Walker back in Chicago for his daughter's graduation, AJ declared himself the batting coach for today's game.

Rongey and Farmer both made mention of it today.
Then he's fired too!

102605
06-02-2007, 03:18 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing Manny Corpas traded to the Sox -- he's doing well and has great potential. Although the Rockies are pretty stupid, I hope they're not stupid enough to give up Fuentes (I'm saying this as a Sox fan living in Denver who doesn't want the Rockies to suck too much). I can't imagine he'd be happy to go from closer to middle reliever, and isn't that what would happen if he came to the Sox?

Welcome aboard! The Rockies do have 2 very good bullpen arms with Corpas and Fuentes. I'm not sure about either of their contracts so that could be possible to land one of those 2. But as much of an optimist as I am, I'm starting to lean closer to the sell rather than buy as being the best idea. If we scrape whatever we have left out of our farm system and try to get into the Wildcard and miss, 2008 will be a very very hard season to go through.

102605
06-02-2007, 03:20 PM
With Walker back in Chicago for his daughter's graduation, AJ declared himself the batting coach for today's game.

Rongey and Farmer both made mention of it today.

Well that is nice and all but it seems everyone is focused on the wrong things.

Dan the Man
06-02-2007, 03:20 PM
If we are looking at the relievers of bottom feeders, what about... Jon Rauch :o:

Paulwny
06-02-2007, 03:22 PM
KW just needs to go pry the closers away from Colorado, Washington and Texas. The bullpen instantly would be far better.

With all the problems NY has with starters and relievers ,I'm sure Cashman has made offers. When a team knows you're hurting it'll cost you big time for a cure. I don't know if the sox have enough talent in the minors for trading for relivers.

JB98
06-02-2007, 03:23 PM
Well that is nice and all but it seems everyone is focused on the wrong things.

I was actually glad to see AJ joking around in the dugout like that. The team needs to have more fun. They've looked sullen and depressed all year, long faces, frustration, etc. They seem burdened by the weight of expectations. Unfortunately, the results were miserable today. No hits after the third inning. Just like the last game in Minnesota. Like I said, hitless in the last 47 ABs against the opposing bullpens.

102605
06-02-2007, 03:25 PM
I was actually glad to see AJ joking around in the dugout like that. The team needs to have more fun. They've looked sullen and depressed all year, long faces, frustration, etc. They seem burdened by the weight of expectations. Unfortunately, the results were miserable today. No hits after the third inning. Just like the last game in Minnesota. Like I said, hitless in the last 47 ABs against the opposing bullpens.

Your right, I actually didn't watch or listen to any of the game. Still in the end, I read that the 3 4 5 6 hitters couldn't bring the runner in from 3rd but ultimately MAAAcDougle and the bullpen blew the doors wide open.

hi im skot
06-02-2007, 03:25 PM
I was actually glad to see AJ joking around in the dugout like that. The team needs to have more fun. They've looked sullen and depressed all year, long faces, frustration, etc. They seem burdened by the weight of expectations. Unfortunately, the results were miserable today. No hits after the third inning. Just like the last game in Minnesota. Like I said, hitless in the last 47 ABs against the opposing bullpens.

Agreed.

MikeLove
06-02-2007, 03:28 PM
You know, I told my girlfriend this yesterday when we were out to eat & watching the game. Walker needs to be fired too. Jerry Owens comes in and looks better than anyone else on the god damn big league team. So hes down not getting taught by Walker and looks good. Didn't Anderson tear up the minors, then the MLB club's hitting coach didn't get results from him. Sweeny gets called up and looks good at the plate, again NOT getting taught by walker the majority of the season. We are DEAD LAST in so many categories in the AL, someone really has to give!

Fire Walker, Send Aardsma to the minors, etc etc. There is NO indication that the Sox are going to turn this around without help

Frater Perdurabo
06-02-2007, 03:30 PM
Yeah, I think getting bullpen guys from bottom feeders is a great idea. I has worked out great getting MacDougal and Sisco from the Royals.

The difference is that Aardsma, MacDougal and Sisco came to the Sox having cemented their reputations as guys who could/would not throw strikes. Their performance to date has confirmed their reputations:

Before today, MacDougal had 16 walks and 18 Ks in 17.1 innings, a 2.21 WHIP, .301 BAA and 7.13 ERA.

Sisco has 11 walks and 13 Ks in 14 innings, a 2.14 WHIP, .306 BAA and 8.36 ERA.

Aardsma's overall numbers are better (he started out very well), but he's walked four guys in his last 1.1 innings pitched - that's 1 walk per out recorded!

Otsuka has just 6 walks and 17 Ks in 19.2 innings this year, a 1.27 WHIP, .250 BAA and a 2.75 ERA.

Fuentes has just 6 walks and 17 Ks in 25.1 innings this year, a .79 WHIP, .165 BAA and a 2.13 ERA.

Cordero has 14 walks and 19 Ks in 25.1 innings this year, a 1.58 WHIP, .268 BAA and a .284 ERA.

Put those three in the pen, along with Jenks, Massett and Thornton, and this pen suddenly turns from a weakness to a strength.

MikeLove
06-02-2007, 03:32 PM
Yeah, I think its pretty safe to say that the strategy of getting AVERAGE TO BELOW AVERAGE players and thinking they are going to be good just because they don a Sox uni, is not the way to build a ballclub

VenturaFan23
06-02-2007, 03:33 PM
Or starters for that matter. They were facing garbage today. Pure ****ing garbage. After getting three runs, they went home. Completely inexcusable. When you quietly sit down 15 in a row (or however many the hitters did) you build momentum for the other team, especially with after failing to get a guy home from 3rd with no outs, and especially with how poorly our bullpen has been. The Jays had **** on the mound, and were able to stay right in it, just long enough to win.
Greg Walker is back in Chicago at his daughter's high school graduation. Hopefully the Sox tell him not to bother catching a flight back, and not to bother coming to the park on Monday. This team being horrible starts and ends with the offense. The pitching is horrible right now, but it is 90% mental. There is no excuse for how ****ty it has been, but the offense puts the stress on them daily, as it has the entire year, and eventually they broke from the stress.
Something needs to happed. Walker needs to be fired immediately. Trades need to be made, and guys need to be sent down. This is all about momentum. If moves are made to shake things up, we can succeed.

My thoughts exactly! I'm tired of our hitters settling for just 2 or 3 run lead and then they seem to hack at everything afterwards to just get the game over with in a hurry! Walker needs to go! I'm tired of watching this pitiful offense!

Frater Perdurabo
06-02-2007, 03:34 PM
Yeah, I think its pretty safe to say that the strategy of getting AVERAGE TO BELOW AVERAGE players and thinking they are going to be good just because they don a Sox uni, is not the way to build a ballclub

I agree that average to below average players will not help the Sox.

But the relievers I mentioned are not below average. They play for bad teams, but they are talented, proven closers. They would be great set-up guys for Jenks.

Lip Man 1
06-02-2007, 03:34 PM
Ky White:

It's actually more then eight games but the Sox actually came back to win a few of them.

The actual number of 'blown' games by the bullpen where the Sox had a lead in the seventh inning or later and lost now stands at SEVEN.

As a comparison last year's bullpen which practically everyone said was bad blew NINE games in the 7th inning or later with a lead and lost in 2006. That was for the entire season remember.

Here's the unfortunate 2007 list:

4/4 Cleveland (7th inning) Thornton
4/10 At Oakland (9th inning) Jenks
4/22 At Detroit (9th inning) Aardsma
5/8 At Minnesota (8th inning) MacDougal
5/18 At Cubs (7th inning) MacDougal
5/19 At Cubs (8th inning) Aardsma / Logan
6/2 At Toronto (7th inning) MacDougal / Thornton

Lip

hi im skot
06-02-2007, 03:35 PM
You know, I told my girlfriend this yesterday when we were out to eat & watching the game. Walker needs to be fired too. Jerry Owens comes in and looks better than anyone else on the god damn big league team. So hes down not getting taught by Walker and looks good. Didn't Anderson tear up the minors, then the MLB club's hitting coach didn't get results from him. Sweeny gets called up and looks good at the plate, again NOT getting taught by walker the majority of the season. We are DEAD LAST in so many categories in the AL, someone really has to give!

Fire Walker, Send Aardsma to the minors, etc etc. There is NO indication that the Sox are going to turn this around without help

There's a big difference between AAA and MLB pitching.

Owens has played in TWO games this season...let's not hand him a silver slugger award yet. Sweeney is young and wasn't consistently good or bad. I think both Owens and Sweeney are going to be a good ones once they are completely in the fold.

Konerko, Dye, Thome, Crede...these guys are professional hitters. They need to right their own ships. Blaming Walker doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me right now.

Frater Perdurabo
06-02-2007, 03:36 PM
With all the problems NY has with starters and relievers ,I'm sure Cashman has made offers. When a team knows you're hurting it'll cost you big time for a cure. I don't know if the sox have enough talent in the minors for trading for relivers.

The difference is that the Sox have prospects to trade that would interest re-building teams like Colorado, Washington and Texas. The Yankees do not.

wealz07
06-02-2007, 03:36 PM
The difference is that even now, the season is not lost. It's not at all hopeless. But it would be futile to sit back and just expect some of these guys to just start performing better.

. . .

KW just needs to go pry the closers away from Colorado, Washington and Texas. The bullpen instantly would be far better.


Hope you are being facetious. It's clear as day to anyone who has watched them play since July of last year that the championship window has closed on this team. They need to be rebuilt.

It's Dankerific
06-02-2007, 03:37 PM
I am going to be very upset if I've been watching this "performance" by the 2007 White Sox because KW was protecting our future (trading for future talent instead of current talent) just to have him blow our future by trading any above average prospect(s) when we have already dug ourselves a nice big hole that will take a STELLAR performance to get out of.

spiffie
06-02-2007, 03:38 PM
Hope you are being facetious. It's clear as day to anyone who has watched them play since July of last year that the championship window has closed on this team. They need to be rebuilt.
Well I guess that settles it. Last one out turn off the lights.

MikeLove
06-02-2007, 03:39 PM
I agree that average to below average players will not help the Sox.

But the relievers I mentioned are not below average. They play for bad teams, but they are talented, proven closers. They would be great set-up guys for Jenks.



I'm talking about Aardsma, Sisco, etc...

They had bad careers for a reason! Maybe they are just bad pitchers. Sisco had an era of like 10+ against the Sox i cannot believe why they even traded for them. For every Thorton that (sort of) works out, theres a MacDougal that looks like a deer in the headlights. Thats what im talking about, it may have worked a few times, but continuing to bank on guys with average careers to turn it around is going to fail a lot more than its going to work!

DickAllen72
06-02-2007, 03:39 PM
KW just needs to go pry the closers away from Colorado, Washington and Texas. The bullpen instantly would be far better.
If they could pry away all three of those pitchers by giving up any three of Thome, Konerko, Dye and Crede, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Of course they wouldn't be able to, however.

hi im skot
06-02-2007, 03:39 PM
Well I guess that settles it. Last one out turn off the lights.

:gulp:

Lip Man 1
06-02-2007, 03:41 PM
Spiffie:

The window isn't completely closed there's still a small opening...but without changes (which are going to be tough to do right now) it will be closed soon.

Lip

Paulwny
06-02-2007, 03:42 PM
The difference is that the Sox have prospects to trade that would interest re-building teams like Colorado, Washington and Texas. The Yankees do not.

I don't think the sox minor leaguers are any better than NY's. Not many sox trades have benefitted the trading team, many gm's may now feel the sox minor leaguerers are over hypped. You can't continue to have one sided trades eventually no one will want your over-rated players.

TRL
06-02-2007, 03:44 PM
Any chance Gavin Floyd can record 3 outs in an inning? I realize he's starting at AAA, but we need someone (ANYONE) who can get an out in the 7th and 8th.

wealz07
06-02-2007, 03:47 PM
Spiffie:

The window isn't completely closed there's still a small opening...but without changes (which are going to be tough to do right now) it will be closed soon.

Lip

Something like 60-73 over there last 133 games? Yeah, it's closed. Time to rebuild.

Paulwny
06-02-2007, 03:49 PM
We continue to place plenty of blame on the pen, with good reason however, when is this hearalded offense going to get into gear ? We will be sellers and not buyers in a month or so.

mcsoxfan
06-02-2007, 03:52 PM
Ever since Aardsma gave up that 2 run shot to Marcus Thames in Detroit, he has not been the same pitcher.

Right now, only Jenks is a sure thing. If you had to pick another option, maybe Thornton & Masset. Everybody else, not so much right now.

Try to get the split tomorrow I guess.


I think Aardsma's downfall began during that fateful Cubs series when both organizations attempted to one-up the other in front of all Chicago with "na na na na na...we got over on you...." by putting the pressure on Aardsma and Cotts to perform....they both failed miserably....one's back in the minors and the other is punching his ticket to North Carolina.

spiffie
06-02-2007, 03:56 PM
Spiffie:

The window isn't completely closed there's still a small opening...but without changes (which are going to be tough to do right now) it will be closed soon.

Lip
I don't disagree with the idea that something has to happen one way or the other soon. However, to have someone who has never been here before come wandering in and make a statement like that really just kind of demands mockery.

wealz07
06-02-2007, 04:01 PM
I don't disagree with the idea that something has to happen one way or the other soon. However, to have someone who has never been here before come wandering in and make a statement like that really just kind of demands mockery.

If this is the mindset of the posters here, it's not a good reflection on this forum.

MRM
06-02-2007, 04:14 PM
I'm talking about Aardsma, Sisco, etc...

They had bad careers for a reason! Maybe they are just bad pitchers. Sisco had an era of like 10+ against the Sox i cannot believe why they even traded for them. For every Thorton that (sort of) works out, theres a MacDougal that looks like a deer in the headlights. Thats what im talking about, it may have worked a few times, but continuing to bank on guys with average careers to turn it around is going to fail a lot more than its going to work!

And exactly how many relief pitchers with "great" careers were out there for the taking? MacDougal was a very good closer for the Royals in '05 and a stud for the Sox in '06. Who could have predicted his absolute collapse this year?

Why aren't we having the "fire Don Cooper" discussion? If Walker needs to go because the offense is sputtering, shouldn't Cooper be blamed for the pathetic performance of the bullpen?

For the record, I don't think either of them should be fired. I'm just wondering why Coop gets a free pass while Walker and Guillen get crucified in here daily.

TheOldRoman
06-02-2007, 04:17 PM
Sweeny gets called up and looks good at the plate, again NOT getting taught by walker the majority of the season.
Oh, there is the glory of it. Sweeney came up and looked really good. And then Walker started messing with his swing to "give him more power". That is when he went into his tailspin that resulted in him getting sent back down.

MRM
06-02-2007, 04:19 PM
My thoughts exactly! I'm tired of our hitters settling for just 2 or 3 run lead and then they seem to hack at everything afterwards to just get the game over with in a hurry!

OH, is THAT what they are doing? That explains everything. Where you guys come up with some of this stuff is beyond me.

ANYONE who actually believes what you wrote above should really pick another sport to follow.

TheOldRoman
06-02-2007, 04:22 PM
... when we have already dug ourselves a nice big hole that will take a STELLAR performance to get out of.
You do realize that we are 2 games back of the wildcard in the loss column, right? You realize that as out-of-their-minds as the Indians have played (with no bullpen whatsoever), that we are 7 1/2 back, right? People seem to think this ****ing team is 15 back, with the 27 Yankees in first place.

sox1970
06-02-2007, 04:27 PM
You do realize that we are 2 games back of the wildcard in the loss column, right? You realize that as out-of-their-minds as the Indians have played (with no bullpen whatsoever), that we are 7 1/2 back, right? People seem to think this ****ing team is 15 back, with the 27 Yankees in first place.

Go Indians. The only thing going for the Sox is the wildcard race. I really didn't want to scoreboard watch this early, but it is what it is.

wealz07
06-02-2007, 04:27 PM
Oh, there is the glory of it. Sweeney came up and looked really good. And then Walker started messing with his swing to "give him more power". That is when he went into his tailspin that resulted in him getting sent back down.

I don't know if Sweeney has ever looked good though. He looks the part physically of a Major League player, but then you see him hit the ball. Nothing but weak grounders and soft flies to left. He appears to have below-average bat speed which would be one of the reasons he's never put up numbers in the minors.

TheOldRoman
06-02-2007, 04:30 PM
Spiffie:

The window isn't completely closed there's still a small opening...but without changes (which are going to be tough to do right now) it will be closed soon.

Lip
Once again, Lip is in all his glory. You must be thrilled that the bullpen is doing so bad. **** the rest of this year - next year is over, too! We shouldn't even try. Our championship window is closed because our bullpen is doing bad lately. Trade off every piece and blow up the park!

MarySwiss
06-02-2007, 04:50 PM
You do realize that we are 2 games back of the wildcard in the loss column, right? You realize that as out-of-their-minds as the Indians have played (with no bullpen whatsoever), that we are 7 1/2 back, right? People seem to think this ****ing team is 15 back, with the 27 Yankees in first place.

Exactly. As bad as we've played, we probably should be 15 or so back. But--and here's the important part--we're not. If the Indians can sustain this pace for the rest of the season--which I doubt--more power to them. But we are by no means out of it.

EDIT: Incidentally WEALZ07, this is just my opinion, but in defense of WSI in general and Spiffie's post in particular, new posters are not necessarily treated with scorn here. There were a couple of Tigers fans--Oblong, for example--who came on board last year and contributed to the discussion.

spiffie
06-02-2007, 05:15 PM
If this is the mindset of the posters here, it's not a good reflection on this forum.
The mindset of this forum is generally not to be fond of people coming in and with their very first statement basically telling a good chunk of the forum that they are utterly and completely incorrect (as many of the people here would strenuously disagree that the window is closed and rebuilding is necessary RIGHT NOW as you imply), and doing it with an air of "anyone who can't see this must be blind." You want to jump in and say you think the Sox should rebuild? Go for it, give us some reasons why and some ideas about it. But what do you expect when the first thing you say to this assembled group is basically "most of you are obviously not as smart as me, but I'll deign to enlighten you"?

spiffie
06-02-2007, 05:20 PM
You do realize that we are 2 games back of the wildcard in the loss column, right? You realize that as out-of-their-minds as the Indians have played (with no bullpen whatsoever), that we are 7 1/2 back, right? People seem to think this ****ing team is 15 back, with the 27 Yankees in first place.
It's looking like the Indians are getting one of those years like the Sox had in 2005, where a few veterans have out of their mind seasons. Aaron Fultz has had one season with a sub 4.50 ERA before this year, and he's rolling along below 2. Betancourt has always been solid in the pen for them, but this is his best year by far so far. Borowski is actually pitching well, with his ERA inflated by a couple of insanely bad outings. Of his 15 earned runs given up this year, 10 have come in 2 outings, and 12 in 3 outings. Otherwise he's been solid. I suppose it is possible their bullpen might implode all of a sudden, but I think it is getting to the time where we accept Cleveland is a strong team and stop waiting for them to fall apart. They can be beaten, and all it takes is one good run against them to get back in the race, but I think the Sox will have to do it for themselves, instead of waiting for the Indians to significantly falter.

ilsox7
06-02-2007, 05:21 PM
The mindset of this forum is generally not to be fond of people coming in and with their very first statement basically telling a good chunk of the forum that they are utterly and completely incorrect (as many of the people here would strenuously disagree that the window is closed and rebuilding is necessary RIGHT NOW as you imply), and doing it with an air of "anyone who can't see this must be blind." You want to jump in and say you think the Sox should rebuild? Go for it, give us some reasons why and some ideas about it. But what do you expect when the first thing you say to this assembled group is basically "most of you are obviously not as smart as me, but I'll deign to enlighten you"?

Excellent use of the word deign! :thumbsup:

alohafri
06-02-2007, 05:21 PM
Time for Kenny to work the phones.

Who should he call? My vote for his first call is Tony Soprano.

KyWhiSoxFan
06-02-2007, 06:12 PM
Ky White:

It's actually more then eight games but the Sox actually came back to win a few of them.

The actual number of 'blown' games by the bullpen where the Sox had a lead in the seventh inning or later and lost now stands at SEVEN.

As a comparison last year's bullpen which practically everyone said was bad blew NINE games in the 7th inning or later with a lead and lost in 2006. That was for the entire season remember.

Here's the unfortunate 2007 list:

4/4 Cleveland (7th inning) Thornton
4/10 At Oakland (9th inning) Jenks
4/22 At Detroit (9th inning) Aardsma
5/8 At Minnesota (8th inning) MacDougal
5/18 At Cubs (7th inning) MacDougal
5/19 At Cubs (8th inning) Aardsma / Logan
6/2 At Toronto (7th inning) MacDougal / Thornton

Lip

Thanks for going back and looking that mess up. This has to be the most frustrating season (so far) the Sox have played in decades. Worse than when they lost 102 games because this team has talent (I think).

They need wholesale changes. It's tough doing that in midseason, but I don't see any options.

TheOldRoman
06-02-2007, 06:13 PM
...but I think the Sox will have to do it for themselves, instead of waiting for the Indians to significantly falter.
I agree. I don't think the Indians are complete crap, but they aren't nearly as good as they look now. The Sox have to play better, or it is all a moot point. I am just saying that people claiming it is all over need to be placed in a room with padded walls.

cws05champ
06-02-2007, 06:23 PM
The difference is that Aardsma, MacDougal and Sisco came to the Sox having cemented their reputations as guys who could/would not throw strikes. Their performance to date has confirmed their reputations:

Before today, MacDougal had 16 walks and 18 Ks in 17.1 innings, a 2.21 WHIP, .301 BAA and 7.13 ERA.

Sisco has 11 walks and 13 Ks in 14 innings, a 2.14 WHIP, .306 BAA and 8.36 ERA.

Aardsma's overall numbers are better (he started out very well), but he's walked four guys in his last 1.1 innings pitched - that's 1 walk per out recorded!

Otsuka has just 6 walks and 17 Ks in 19.2 innings this year, a 1.27 WHIP, .250 BAA and a 2.75 ERA.

Fuentes has just 6 walks and 17 Ks in 25.1 innings this year, a .79 WHIP, .165 BAA and a 2.13 ERA.

Cordero has 14 walks and 19 Ks in 25.1 innings this year, a 1.58 WHIP, .268 BAA and a .284 ERA.

Put those three in the pen, along with Jenks, Massett and Thornton, and this pen suddenly turns from a weakness to a strength.

Yes, but to get one of those guys...let alone all three, you would have to completely gut the farm. Say bye bye to Sweeney, Russell, Gio, Carter and more. That it not something I would be willing to do, as this team has not shown anything close to enough to compete for a World series title, and to then gut the whole system would be foolish.

JB98
06-02-2007, 06:27 PM
Yes, but to get one of those guys...let alone all three, you would have to completely gut the farm. Say bye bye to Sweeney, Russell, Gio, Carter and more. That it not something I would be willing to do, as this team has not shown anything close to enough to compete for a World series title, and to then gut the whole system would be foolish.

I don't think we'd have to gut the farm to get one of them. All three? That's a pipe dream. I'd be willing to trade a prospect to get the Japanese dude from Texas. Put him with Jenks and Thornton, and I think things would look better.

I know Thornton sucked today, but I haven't totally lost faith in him. I can deal with Logan as a lefty specialist. It's the right-handed relief that is KILLING us. I don't like Cordero. Mediocre stuff, and I've seen him walk guys just like MacDougal does.

wealz07
06-02-2007, 07:01 PM
The mindset of this forum is generally not to be fond of people coming in and with their very first statement basically telling a good chunk of the forum that they are utterly and completely incorrect (as many of the people here would strenuously disagree that the window is closed and rebuilding is necessary RIGHT NOW as you imply), and doing it with an air of "anyone who can't see this must be blind." You want to jump in and say you think the Sox should rebuild? Go for it, give us some reasons why and some ideas about it. But what do you expect when the first thing you say to this assembled group is basically "most of you are obviously not as smart as me, but I'll deign to enlighten you"?

60-73 in their last 133 games. This team, with their age (not old, but definitely not young), playing this poorly for this long -- it's nothing more than wishful thinking to believe they'll suddenly turn it around. They are who they are. If that's arrogant, I apologize.

Hitmen77
06-02-2007, 07:01 PM
What an embarassment.

Sox hitters can't hit bullpen pitchers.

Sox bullpen pitchers can't get opposing hitters out.

What a recipe!

Incredible.

I wonder what would happen if our hitters got to face our relief pitchers? Whose ineptitude would win out?:(:

MarySwiss
06-02-2007, 07:11 PM
60-73 in their last 133 games. This team, with their age (not old, but definitely not young), playing this poorly for this long -- it's nothing more than wishful thinking to believe they'll suddenly turn it around. They are who they are. If that's arrogant, I apologize.

Why apologize? No need. IMO, it's not arrogant; it's your opinion. I for one disagree with it, and I believe they'll prove you wrong. We'll see.

The Immigrant
06-02-2007, 07:16 PM
They need wholesale changes. It's tough doing that in midseason, but I don't see any options.

They should bring in the Bobs and re-interview everyone.

"So what exactly do you do around here, Mr. Walker?"

JB98
06-02-2007, 07:18 PM
They should bring in the Bobs and re-interview everyone.

"So what exactly do you do around here, Mr. Walker?"

Judging by the postgame comments, we only have to put up with the bullpen as it is currently structured for one more day. A shakeup is coming Monday when the club gets back to Chicago.

See ya, Mac. See ya, Aardsma.

hi im skot
06-02-2007, 07:27 PM
Judging by the postgame comments, we only have to put up with the bullpen as it is currently structured for one more day. A shakeup is coming Monday when the club gets back to Chicago.

See ya, Mac. See ya, Aardsma.

Any specific comments that you can quote or paraphrase? I didn't catch any of the postgame...

JB98
06-02-2007, 07:29 PM
Any specific comments that you can quote or paraphrase? I didn't catch any of the postgame...

Sure. Try this one out for size:

"Well, I think the bullpen is lucky weíre in Toronto," Guillen said. "If we were in Chicago people would be out. I just talked to (general manager) Kenny (Williams) Ö we canít continue to struggle and be nice with people, caring with people and all of a sudden we fail. Itís up to us what weíre going to do when we get to Chicago, but donít be surprised if someone is not there.
The way weíve been playing, we canít give away games like this."

hi im skot
06-02-2007, 07:32 PM
Sure. Try this one out for size:

"Well, I think the bullpen is lucky weíre in Toronto," Guillen said. "If we were in Chicago people would be out. I just talked to (general manager) Kenny (Williams) Ö we canít continue to struggle and be nice with people, caring with people and all of a sudden we fail. Itís up to us what weíre going to do when we get to Chicago, but donít be surprised if someone is not there.
The way weíve been playing, we canít give away games like this."

Awesome. Thanks! :gulp:

Kwrubac
06-02-2007, 07:39 PM
Incredible.

I wonder what would happen if our hitters got to face our relief pitchers? Whose ineptitude would win out?:(:



THE END OF THE WORLD!!!! The planet would implode upon itself and cease to exist :cool:

wealz07
06-02-2007, 07:47 PM
Judging by the postgame comments, we only have to put up with the bullpen as it is currently structured for one more day. A shakeup is coming Monday when the club gets back to Chicago.

See ya, Mac. See ya, Aardsma.

Thing is there's not much in the minors, Prinz is probably the best option.

Scariest thing about Dewon Day's performance against the Twins was it made me think twice about the competition in the Southern League and the impressive numbers that Gonzalez is putting up.

JB98
06-02-2007, 07:52 PM
Thing is there's not much in the minors, Prinz is probably the best option.

Scariest thing about Dewon Day's performance against the Twins was it made me think twice about the competition in the Southern League and the impressive numbers that Gonzalez is putting up.

Prinz and Bukvich have big-league experience. Neither is a long-term answer, IMO, but both could do no worse than what we've seen from MacDougal and Aardsma the last three weeks.

TFLEM33
06-02-2007, 08:36 PM
The problem with the team goes back to the offseason. Kenny stood pat. He did nothing to significantly improve a team that missed the playoffs last year. We traded Freddy for Gavin Floyd and Gio. That trade may still pan out in the future, but doesn't help us now. The McCarthy deal for Masset and Danks didn't hurt us any, but didn't necessarily make us any better in 2007. We re-signed injury-prone Podsednik, didn't replace Uribe with someone who doesn't swing at every pitch thrown his way, and signed an aging Erstad to play CF. I'm not even going to discuss deals for Aardsma and Sisco because we all know how well that is going. Sadly, Erstad has been the best pickup thus far. He has one of our best batting averages, and he's only batting .264.

Yes, I know we won 90 games last year, but we fell flat on our face after the All-Star Break. There was an obvious need for improvement, and we did nothing of note. While I have high hopes, I think this team will finish with no better than 85 wins this year. But, I, like many of you, will continue to see the Sox through to the end and HOPE something happens to turn things around.

whitesoxfan
06-02-2007, 09:09 PM
Thanks a lot, MacDougal. Nothing frustrates me more than bullpen pitchers who have no ****ing control. Throw some ****ing strikes. My God that was embarrassing. There's no doubt in my mind that this bullpen is the worst in the league. Just unbelievable.

Grzegorz
06-02-2007, 09:16 PM
I agree. I don't think the Indians are complete crap, but they aren't nearly as good as they look now. The Sox have to play better, or it is all a moot point. I am just saying that people claiming it is all over need to be placed in a room with padded walls.

I agree the Indians cannot keep this up. The Chicago White Sox have to address the pen today; Aardsma & MacDougal should not see the bump again.

Face it, this team has some chance at the playoffs with solid pitching and inconsistent hitting but they have no chance if the pen cannot hold a lead.

bryPt
06-02-2007, 09:22 PM
KW is not going to let this team fail. I have never seen someone so dedicated to winning. Not even Ron Wolf (sorry, packer fan here). KW is going to do something to turn this ship around.

damn, I sound positive.

ThomesHomie
06-02-2007, 10:16 PM
Changes will be made Monday, Ozzy came out and stated this.

Guillen said after the game that changes in the bullpen likely will happen on Monday when the team arrives back in Chicago after completing a seven-game road trip.
"It's up to figuring out what we are going to do when we get to Chicago," Guillen said. "I'd be surprised if somebody else wasn't there. I don't know anything yet, but I'd be surprised. We're going to have a long day talking to Kenny about the issue."

WhiteSox5187
06-03-2007, 12:13 AM
KW is not going to let this team fail. I have never seen someone so dedicated to winning. Not even Ron Wolf (sorry, packer fan here). KW is going to do something to turn this ship around.

damn, I sound positive.
I agree, I think Kenny is going to do SOMETHING. I almost feel bad for MacDougal and Aardsma, Aardsma was just so lights out at the beginning of the season and after that homer to Thames, he just hasn't been the same. I wonder if it's a mechanical thing or a mental thing. But either way, neither him nor MacDougal have any buisness being in our major league bullpen anymore. The game is over as soon as they come in. The good news is the bullpen is our one MAJOR problem. These hitters, they will hit (though we should have brough Iguchi in from third today) and our starting five are going quite well (with a couple of bad outtings every now and then). But the bullpen needs to be addressed now. If we fix that, things can start clicking for us. There is no reason to blow this team up and wave the white flag.

TheOldRoman
06-03-2007, 01:11 AM
Sure. Try this one out for size:

"Well, I think the bullpen is lucky weíre in Toronto," Guillen said. "If we were in Chicago people would be out. I just talked to (general manager) Kenny (Williams) Ö we canít continue to struggle and be nice with people, caring with people and all of a sudden we fail. Itís up to us what weíre going to do when we get to Chicago, but donít be surprised if someone is not there.
The way weíve been playing, we canít give away games like this."
Among other thing heads to roll, I can only hope this means:
"We realize that Walk is a horrible coach. We wanted to fire him today, but thought it would be bad to fire him on the day his daughter graduated from high school. We will wait until Monday to can his ass."

Nellie_Fox
06-03-2007, 01:13 AM
Among other thing heads to roll, I can only hope this means:
"We realize that Walk is a horrible coach. We wanted to fire him today, but thought it would be bad to fire him on the day his daughter graduated from high school. We will wait until Monday to can his ass."Walker cause another bullpen implosion? Hmmm. Interesting.

StillMissOzzie
06-03-2007, 01:32 AM
As an aside...When the Sox traded Cotts for Aardsma, IIRC, everyone was happy because it meant they got rid of Cotts, who stunk up the joint in 2006. Getting anything more than a bag of balls was considered a bonus.

Now, Cotts has been dropped to AAA Des Moines, and it wouldn't surprise me if AAArdsma faces a similar future in getting sent to AAA Charlotte. At least the Cubs were smart enough to cut their losses to keep Cotts from hurting the big league club a lot earlier than the Sox hopefully do.

So much for one of those "our garbage for your garbage" change of scenery trades.

SMO
:mad:

Corlose 15
06-03-2007, 01:32 AM
I'm finding it very hard to give a damn about this team. I'm glad this game was blacked out today so I wouldn't be tempted to watch that POS.

Things aren't over by any stretch but I have hardly any confidence in this team turning it around.

That said I'm not sold on gutting the farm to get guys like Otsuka, Cordero, etc. I'm not sure what the solution is but I'd prefer to still be excited about 2008 at the end of the season.

At least they've had to good courtesy to play like **** in May instead of stringing us along for another September collapse.:wink: :rolleyes:

TheOldRoman
06-03-2007, 01:33 AM
Walker cause another bullpen implosion? Hmmm. Interesting.
No, but he is among the problems. Send Aardsma and maybe MacDougal down to shake up the bullpen, and fire Walker to shake up the offense.

crazyozzie02
06-03-2007, 01:43 AM
man i sure am glad that i decided to go to six flags instead of watch the sox game.

Nellie_Fox
06-03-2007, 02:20 AM
I'm finding it very hard to give a damn about this team. I always give a damn about this team. Always. In fact, that's the problem.

No, but he is among the problems. Send Aardsma and maybe MacDougal down to shake up the bullpen, and fire Walker to shake up the offense.but Coop still gets a pass, huh?

RadioheadRocks
06-03-2007, 02:23 AM
No, but he is among the problems. Send Aardsma and maybe MacDougal down to shake up the bullpen, and fire Walker to shake up the offense.

No maybe about it, McDougAAAl needs to just go away... far, far away.

Nellie_Fox
06-03-2007, 02:24 AM
Oh, by the way:
:tomatoaward:

WSox597
06-03-2007, 07:48 AM
No matter what they do, I'll still watch them. It might be painful to watch, but it's been painful before. I've seen some mighty bad teams over the years on the south side. I've also seen some mighty good teams.

This one needs to start hitting, and many problems will go away. If they do decide it's Walker who needs to take the blame, would Harold Baines be interested? He was one hell of a hitter, and had over 300 home runs. He played longer than Walker, and was more successful. Just a thought.

The thing is, he's not the most talkative kind of guy, to say the least. He may not want the spotlight put on him.

The bullpen is still frightening to watch, I can't understand what wrong here. They started out very well, and then BOOM!

Injuries have hurt the Sox, many of their bench players are playing way too much. As someone said on another thread, there are reasons these guys are bench players instead of starters. Cintron, Mackowiak, Ozuna before his injury, were all playing too much due to injuries to starters.

Perhaps it's time to play Owens, Sweeney, and Anderson more to see what happens. If it is Walker that is the problem, maybe they can have these guys play now that they played away from his influence and see if it matters. For that matter, who is the hitting coach in the minors? Maybe his input could be useful.

Grzegorz
06-03-2007, 08:37 AM
Perhaps it's time to play Owens, Sweeney, and Anderson more to see what happens. If it is Walker that is the problem, maybe they can have these guys play now that they played away from his influence and see if it matters. For that matter, who is the hitting coach in the minors? Maybe his input could be useful.

Any analysis of what is wrong with this team that results in a single root cause is incorrect.

The team is failing in a number of areas. Firing Walker would satisfy some on this board, but when that firing doesn't work who's the next to be canned?

Law11
06-03-2007, 09:09 AM
I havent gone through all the posts but did I hear correct in the postgame yesterday. I swear I heard melton say the Sox were 0 for their last 50 AB's vs relief pitiching...

It aint just the bullpen that's terrible..

The Immigrant
06-03-2007, 09:28 AM
I swear I heard melton say the Sox were 0 for their last 50 AB's vs relief pitiching...


Sox hitters are 0-for their last 50, and 4-for their last 74, against relievers. That's the equivalent of almost two straight no-hitters, and almost a 3-game span with only 4 hits.

TheOldRoman
06-03-2007, 09:34 AM
No maybe about it, McDougAAAl needs to just go away... far, far away.
I was implying that I don't know if he can be sent down or not.

TheOldRoman
06-03-2007, 09:40 AM
but Coop still gets a pass, huh?
No, because our pitching certainly hasn't been good. But Coop has had success before. Besides that, we have a lot more talent on offense, and they should be hitting. The bullpen is raw. Walker should have been fired years ago.

MRM
06-03-2007, 03:43 PM
No, because our pitching certainly hasn't been good. But Coop has had success before.

And Walker hasn't? The Sox were what, 2nd or 3rd in runs scored last year? That's pretty successful.

IndianWhiteSox
06-03-2007, 03:45 PM
And Walker hasn't? The Sox were what, 2nd or 3rd in runs scored last year? That's pretty successful.

That's because his all or none approach was working for about three months of the year last year. Once it faltered, that was it. That's why Walker needs to be fired.