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View Full Version : Is it possible to gain 3 games in the standings between now and October?


jabrch
06-01-2007, 11:37 PM
That's all we need to do to make the playoffs.

I'm not saying we are in good shape - just that the season is far from over.

WhiteSox5187
06-01-2007, 11:40 PM
No, it is not possible. The season is over unless the Sox go 21-7 in June. I'm sorry. But that's the way it is.

Hitmen77
06-01-2007, 11:48 PM
It's simply amazing to me that after all the Sox have been through. Injuries, bereavements, team avg. of .220, bullpen implosion....and we're only 1 game behind in the loss column (3 games behind overall) for the wild card lead.

We have certainly been given the opportunity to get our act together this year. Yes, there are still concerns about injuries, the bullpen, etc.But this season isn't over by a long shot. Unless AJ and Buehrle start punching each other in the dugout tomorrow. :wink:

UserNameBlank
06-01-2007, 11:49 PM
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:YitaJKWpTzzRmM:http://image.blog.livedoor.jp/wallflower7318/imgs/0/b/0b69ed0b.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://image.blog.livedoor.jp/wallflower7318/imgs/0/b/0b69ed0b.jpg&imgrefurl=http://blog.livedoor.jp/wallflower7318/archives/cat_50020321.html&h=768&w=1024&sz=388&hl=en&start=15&tbnid=YitaJKWpTzzRmM:&tbnh=113&tbnw=150&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsteve%2Bperry%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10% 26hl%3Den)
Don't stop believin'

This is an awesome team, and the fact that they've played like a pile of dog turds since the second half of last year is certainly no indication of what type of team the '07 Sox really are.

BRDSR
06-01-2007, 11:59 PM
What are you trying to do, make sense? Quit it already!

Honestly though, thats a really good point, and it causes two emotions to stir inside me. 1) Wow, we're really in this thing! 2) Wow, imagine what great shape we'd be in if we hadn't been playing so far below our potential all season long!

BiggestFan14
06-02-2007, 12:04 AM
They can do that in a week. They will be fine.

MUsoxfan
06-02-2007, 12:05 AM
If the pitching evens itself out, they'll be golden in a month.

RadioheadRocks
06-02-2007, 12:09 AM
"Anyone who thinks the Sox can catch Cleveland is crazy..."

voodoochile
06-02-2007, 12:30 AM
How the hell are they going to do that? I mean seriously they only have 30 games or something left with Detroit and Cleveland.

It's just not possible. We're ****ed. We suck! It's over...

Seriously, what's the point if the Sox are only the Wild Card? No WC team has won the WS or even a pennant since the cursed back door mediocrity loving thing was invented...:rolleyes:

I'm still riding shotgun, jabarch. Thanks for throwing a little sanity into the mix...

gobears1987
06-02-2007, 12:36 AM
NO, it's not possible. We ****ing suck

We can do it and we will. I'd like to see KW make a move if its at the right price to help shore up the pen. Our rotation is fine and our bats should come around. We have enough younhg talent that I'm not worried about injuries we have right now.

jabrch
06-02-2007, 12:36 AM
What are you trying to do, make sense? Quit it already!

Honestly though, thats a really good point, and it causes two emotions to stir inside me. 1) Wow, we're really in this thing! 2) Wow, imagine what great shape we'd be in if we hadn't been playing so far below our potential all season long!

What happens if Dye, PK, Crede and Iguchi all end up hitting better than .225? I mean - is this possible?

The pants-pissing (I love that term) that goes on here just blows my mind. You can't look at an individual game, or even a string of 5-7 games to evaluate a team. Look at the big picture. Our pitching is good. We have good hitters who haven't been hitting. We play good defense. We have talent in the pen (although it struggled sans Jenks) and we have talent on the farm.

Really - 3 Freaking Games - that's it...and we have played the fewest games of any team in baseball so far. If you think we are out of it - get the hell off the bandwaggon. We don't need you.

We very well may end up 20 games out - but let's at least enjoy the game while we are still right in the thick of things instead of pretending like the freaking world is ending just because some people are making it sound like that.

CHISOXFAN13
06-02-2007, 12:41 AM
It's to the point now where I cheer for the Indians to win every game against the Tigers. I don't think we are as good as Cleveland because they have some serious baseball magic working right now, but Detroit is a different story.

I love this thread!

FarWestChicago
06-02-2007, 07:40 AM
The pants-pissing (I love that term) that goes on here just blows my mind.You get pants pissing after a one or two game losing streak. Once you hit three games around here, you are into "brown legging" territory. :yup:

wassagstdu
06-02-2007, 08:41 AM
The pants-pissing (I love that term) that goes on here just blows my mind. You can't look at an individual game, or even a string of 5-7 games to evaluate a team. Look at the big picture. Our pitching is good. We have good hitters who haven't been hitting. We play good defense. We have talent in the pen (although it struggled sans Jenks) and we have talent on the farm.

Is it "pants pissing" not to like the way the Sox have been playing (for a year!)? Those who think so should maybe look into the Cubs. What you are saying here is "Forget what is happening on the field. On paper this is a good team." You don't mean "look at the big picture" on the field (is a full year big enough?) You mean look at the big woulda-shoulda-coulda picture.

To paraphrase Ozzie, "Don't give me talent, give me players."

In the "big picture" the Sox came nowhere close to winning it all in 2005, but they had a much better shot at it in 2006.

jabrch
06-02-2007, 10:07 AM
Is it "pants pissing" not to like the way the Sox have been playing (for a year!)?

No - but it is pantspissing to bitch about it incessantly and then to say we are done for the year just because we are 3 freaking games out of a post season spot on June 1.

Those who think so should maybe look into the Cubs.

This is one of the dumbest retorts ever - congrats. You are nominated for the BP award.

What you are saying here is "Forget what is happening on the field. On paper this is a good team." You don't mean "look at the big picture" on the field (is a full year big enough?) You mean look at the big woulda-shoulda-coulda picture.

That's not at all what I am saying. First - since you don't get what I am saying, stop telling me what I am saying. Second, think about it - what I am saying is that it is JUNE 1. We have 112 games left to play and need to make up 3 games. It is pantspissing to bitch and moan about our season and to say we are done.

To paraphrase Ozzie, "Don't give me talent, give me players."

Who Cares?

In the "big picture" the Sox came nowhere close to winning it all in 2005, but they had a much better shot at it in 2006.

Twice in one post - a BP Award Nomination! This is just dumb. We had a World Championship team in 2005. We had a team that won 90 games and was capable of repeating - had we not been in the toughest division in baseball, we'd have probably made it to the post season. And our team this year, just to remind you, is 3 games out of a post season spot on JUNE 1 with 112 games left to play.

ilsox7
06-02-2007, 10:11 AM
That's not at all what I am saying. First - since you don't get what I am saying, stop telling me what I am saying. Second, think about it - what I am saying is that it is JUNE 1. We have 112 games left to play and need to make up 3 games. It is pantspissing to bitch and moan about our season and to say we are done.



All of your arguments are obviously null and void b/c it is actually June 2. :cool:

Corlose 15
06-02-2007, 10:33 AM
Twice in one post - a BP Award Nomination! This is just dumb. We had a World Championship team in 2005. We had a team that won 90 games and was capable of repeating - had we not been in the toughest division in baseball, we'd have probably made it to the post season. And our team this year, just to remind you, is 3 games out of a post season spot on JUNE 1 with 112 games left to play.

I think the reason the Sox didn't make the playoffs last year had more to do with them playing like absolute **** after the all star break more than them being in a tough division.

I'd say the division is probably tougher this year too so that doesn't bode well for the Sox either.

I agree with you that there's plenty of time but the way this team is playing doesn't generate a whole lot of confidence in me considering its been almost a year since they were really clicking.

Also, I'm glad that "pants pissing" is replacing "dark cloud" as the most overused term here on WSI.:rolleyes:

twentywontowin
06-02-2007, 10:43 AM
Seriously, what's the point if the Sox are only the Wild Card? No WC team has won the WS or even a pennant since the cursed back door mediocrity loving thing was invented...:rolleyes:



2004 Red Sox
2003 Marlins
2002 Angels

All won the World Series as a wild card.

IndianWhiteSox
06-02-2007, 10:49 AM
2004 Red Sox
2003 Marlins
2002 Angels

All won the World Series as a wild card.

I think he was being sarcastic even without the teal. But that's impossible like the Sox not being able to make the playoffs now what will we do?
:rolleyes:

At this rate, no one(unless you're the sCrUBS) is out of the post-season picture.

balke
06-02-2007, 11:06 AM
The only thing that gives me any hope for the season right now is that Erstad is down, and Owens got a chance to add speed to our lineup. I know he probably won't hit all that well, but this team needs speed desperately at the top of the order. He's already looking to be a better bag swiper than Willie Harris, which is a start.

This is the Sox easy schedule, and they've played fewer games than the Indians and Tigers with more losses. They are further back in the standings than they look. Hopefully they turn it on with the addition of this spark plug, I think Owens was the addition they needed.

Lukin13
06-02-2007, 11:33 AM
One win and you guys are all back on the gravy train?????

Obviously, the Sox CAN make the playoffs and the they are no where near eliminated; but it is the way they have looked this entire season. Outside of five or six players; NO ONE has played with any intensity or anywhere near their ability. In '05 there were lots of career years, in '07 we have 5 guys playing average for their ability and 20+ underachieving like a mofo..... several of which theoretically should be having monster years because it is time for them to get paid.

People are blaming some of the woes on injuries... technically the Sox have been about as injury free as any team in baseball. Pods has been hurt, yes.... Thome was beat up and took a few weeks off, yes..... Erstad just went down, yes... now tell me something I didn't know was going to happen going into '07.

If you actually watch the games there is no way you can say that you expect this team to leapfrog 3 others to win the division. You just can't!

I don't mind people being happy after a win but it is the same guys that were calling for a fire-sale after 5 losses.... I don't get it; nothing has changed, the only thing that is different is that Javy avoided a big inning yesterday because Overbay hit that ball off the end of his bat. Otherwise, the game would have been tied and the streak could have easily been 6.

soxfan13
06-02-2007, 12:16 PM
2004 Red Sox
2003 Marlins
2002 Angels

All won the World Series as a wild card.

Also Marlins in 1997!!

IndianWhiteSox
06-02-2007, 12:23 PM
One win and you guys are all back on the gravy train?????

Obviously, the Sox CAN make the playoffs and the they are no where near eliminated; but it is the way they have looked this entire season. Outside of five or six players; NO ONE has played with any intensity or anywhere near their ability. In '05 there were lots of career years, in '07 we have 5 guys playing average for their ability and 20+ underachieving like a mofo..... several of which theoretically should be having monster years because it is time for them to get paid.

People are blaming some of the woes on injuries... technically the Sox have been about as injury free as any team in baseball. Pods has been hurt, yes.... Thome was beat up and took a few weeks off, yes..... Erstad just went down, yes... now tell me something I didn't know was going to happen going into '07.

If you actually watch the games there is no way you can say that you expect this team to leapfrog 3 others to win the division. You just can't!

I don't mind people being happy after a win but it is the same guys that were calling for a fire-sale after 5 losses.... I don't get it; nothing has changed, the only thing that is different is that Javy avoided a big inning yesterday because Overbay hit that ball off the end of his bat. Otherwise, the game would have been tied and the streak could have easily been 6.

As one of the posters here always says, "If your aunt has balls she'd be you're uncle."
:redneck

Let's just take things one game at a time from here on out and after that who knows? All I can is this, Detroit is imploding right in front of our eyes, Cleveland is an implosion waiting to happen and as for the Twins, they can't keep up their bull**** either can they? I doubt it, if we can just break up the base-clogging crap, everything will be fine.

oeo
06-02-2007, 01:33 PM
It's simply amazing to me that after all the Sox have been through. Injuries, bereavements, team avg. of .220, bullpen implosion....and we're only 1 game behind in the loss column (3 games behind overall) for the wild card lead.

We have certainly been given the opportunity to get our act together this year. Yes, there are still concerns about injuries, the bullpen, etc.But this season isn't over by a long shot. Unless AJ and Buehrle start punching each other in the dugout tomorrow. :wink:

The problem a few days ago, is the starting pitching looked like it was going to the ****ter. The last time through the rotation, it was terrible. Buehrle and Javy looked good these last two days, hopefully Contreras can continue that. As long as our rotation is pitching well, I think we'll be fine. If it goes to crap, we're done.

jabrch
06-02-2007, 07:34 PM
One win and you guys are all back on the gravy train?????


No - most of them never were so stupid to believe that the season was over down by 3 games on June 1. It had nothing to do with one game. If you really believe the season is absolutely over, and we have no chance, that's fine - but it is not the case. Worse teams than us, down further, have come back to make the post season.

It isn't one game - it is simple baseball truth.

technically the Sox have been about as injury free as any team in baseball. Pods has been hurt yes.... Thome was beat up and took a few weeks off, yes..... Erstad just went down, yes

Do you read this **** while you type it? That's our leadoff hitter gone for most of the year, our #4 hitter gone for a big chunk so far, and now the guy who has been most productive after those two. That's a MAJOR hit.

If you actually watch the games there is no way you can say that you expect this team to leapfrog 3 others to win the division. You just can't!

Wow - let me count the errors is this one....

1) Nobody said they "expect" anything
2) They don't have to win the division - all they have to do is gain 3 games on everyone in 112 remaining to get the wild card
3) If you actually watch the games, and see how poorly they are hitting relative to their potential, how can you not see it as a realistic possibility that they can make the post season?

You have officially exceeded homefish in your pessimistic sillyness. WSI offers a fine place for people like that - the ignore list.

Flight #24
06-02-2007, 10:15 PM
Can they win the WC - sure. There's no doubt that 3 games is nothing (hell, even 5-7 games is doable given that it's June 2). The problem as I see it is that the offense for almost a full season (since last years second half) isn't balanced, and the relief pitching is crap. Oh yeah, and defensive execution isn't that hot either.

Unless those turn around, they have no chance. And while I like the chances for the O to at least improve (although I'm not sold on balance or execution showing up anytime), I do not have high hopes for this bullpen. I expect it to remain inconsistent as long as they rely significantly on rookies.

The real problem that the Sox have is that the division has 1 team playing great (Cleveland), another team that on paper is at least as good as the Sox but has been slumping (Detroit), and another team that always ends up at or near the top and flat out kills the Sox. As much chance as the Sox have of making up ground, those teams have of extending it.

DannyCaterFan
06-03-2007, 12:08 AM
In case you have not noticed, we are now only 6 and a half games ahead of the Royals and last place.

WhiteSox5187
06-03-2007, 01:20 AM
In case you have not noticed, we are now only 6 and a half games ahead of the Royals and last place.
We're doomed!!!

Look, the good news here is that we have found the problem, the problem is the bullpen. Fix that and we are going to be winning a lot more games. The bad news is that we're seven and half (maybe now eight and half) games out of first. But we wouldn't be the first team to make up that kind of ground. It's happened before and it will happen again. I assure you. Right now we need to fix the bullpen, get the win tommorrow and come home. Take it one game at a time right now. This team is a good team and they'll start playing that way soon. As for the Tigers and the Indians, let me ask you this, at this time last year was anyone worrying about a collapse? Was anyone worrying about the Twins? We looked pretty good this time last year too. A lot can change in four months. There's still time. It doesn't look good, but this isn't impossible.

Railsplitter
06-03-2007, 10:34 AM
So? Games ahead/behind doesn't mean a thing. You can be three games behind and still be below .500. The hitting is poor, and we don't need to be renmided of how bad the bull pen is.

jabrch
06-03-2007, 12:41 PM
In case you have not noticed, we are now only 6 and a half games ahead of the Royals and last place.

Dumb post!

Gavin
06-03-2007, 12:56 PM
This thread is stupid. If you want to berate and namecall anyone who disagrees with you, jabrch, get a blog.

Soxfest
06-03-2007, 12:57 PM
The bullpen has posted a 9.06 ERA over the last 21 games while the offense is hitless in its last 47 at-bats (.000) against opposing relievers.

jabrch
06-03-2007, 01:07 PM
This thread is stupid. If you want to berate and namecall anyone who disagrees with you, jabrch, get a blog.


Is it warm when it trickles down your leg Gavin?

voodoochile
06-03-2007, 01:07 PM
The bullpen has posted a 9.06 ERA over the last 21 games while the offense is hitless in its last 47 at-bats (.000) against opposing relievers.


Well then there's nowhere to go but up...:D:

soxwon
06-03-2007, 01:09 PM
It's simply amazing to me that after all the Sox have been through. Injuries, bereavements, team avg. of .220, bullpen implosion....and we're only 1 game behind in the loss column (3 games behind overall) for the wild card lead.

We have certainly been given the opportunity to get our act together this year. Yes, there are still concerns about injuries, the bullpen, etc.But this season isn't over by a long shot. Unless AJ and Buehrle start punching each other in the dugout tomorrow. :wink:

Dont we have 3 games to makeup that clev doesnt?
that could be huge!!!

balke
06-03-2007, 01:22 PM
Dont we have 3 games to makeup that clev doesnt?
that could be huge!!!


Huge how? We have more losses.

gosiu
06-03-2007, 01:30 PM
Huge how? We have more losses.
Having more games to play must be considered an advantage as that gives you more opportunities to win and gain ground. The problem, however, is that playing so many games in a row due to the cancellations could wear out the team.

Gavin
06-03-2007, 01:56 PM
Is it warm when it trickles down your leg Gavin?

What? Are we still talking about the White Sox on here or is this just a forum for you to talk **** to people?

balke
06-03-2007, 01:58 PM
Having more games to play must be considered an advantage as that gives you more opportunities to win and gain ground. The problem, however, is that playing so many games in a row due to the cancellations could wear out the team.

When the Sox have more losses and have played less games, that just makes me think they have that many more chances to lose a game.

Lukin13
06-03-2007, 05:40 PM
No - most of them never were so stupid to believe that the season was over down by 3 games on June 1. It had nothing to do with one game. If you really believe the season is absolutely over, and we have no chance, that's fine - but it is not the case. Worse teams than us, down further, have come back to make the post season.

It isn't one game - it is simple baseball truth.



Do you read this **** while you type it? That's our leadoff hitter gone for most of the year, our #4 hitter gone for a big chunk so far, and now the guy who has been most productive after those two. That's a MAJOR hit.



Wow - let me count the errors is this one....

1) Nobody said they "expect" anything
2) They don't have to win the division - all they have to do is gain 3 games on everyone in 112 remaining to get the wild card
3) If you actually watch the games, and see how poorly they are hitting relative to their potential, how can you not see it as a realistic possibility that they can make the post season?

You have officially exceeded homefish in your pessimistic sillyness. WSI offers a fine place for people like that - the ignore list.


Again, I never said it was over, I said it was a longshot to leap 3 teams.

Pods was crucial to this team in '05; but you obviously haven't taken a gander at the disabled list lately if you think that they Sox have been plagued anymore than average by injuries. There are superstars going down left and right this year. Also, if on March 1st you told me that Pods would be hurt, Thome would have been beat up and taken two weeks off, and Erstad would also miss time.... I wouldn't have batted an eye.

If you are trying to say that because this team hasn't hit worth a darn so far that, that means they are gonna hit in the second half... I'll buy that. BUT, if the starting pitching has overachieved in the first half your theory would have to also support a steady decrease in effectiveness from our starters... wouldn't it???

Just because I haven't posted much on these forums doesn't mean I haven't watched almost every game for the past 15 years of my life.

I am a fan, not a cheerleader.

alohafri
06-03-2007, 05:51 PM
That's all we need to do to make the playoffs.

I'm not saying we are in good shape - just that the season is far from over.

Put down the bottle.

ilsox7
06-03-2007, 05:54 PM
Put down the bottle.

In your rush to judgment, you failed to realize what the OP was saying. His first point was that it is not crazy, insane, or miraculous for the Sox to make up a few games on a few teams by October 1. His second point was that with the way the Sox are playing now, that certainly won't happen. His analysis was quite rational, unlike your response.

alohafri
06-03-2007, 06:04 PM
In your rush to judgment, you failed to realize what the OP was saying. His first point was that it is not crazy, insane, or miraculous for the Sox to make up a few games on a few teams by October 1. His second point was that with the way the Sox are playing now, that certainly won't happen. His analysis was quite rational, unlike your response.

I have been watching/listening to all of the games this season, not tapes from 2005. As Jerry Reinsdorf once said, "anyone who thinks this team can catch Cleveland is crazy."

ilsox7
06-03-2007, 06:08 PM
I have been watching/listening to all of the games this season, not tapes from 2005. As Jerry Reinsdorf once said, "anyone who thinks this team can catch Cleveland is crazy."

And yet you still have failed to address both points that were raised in this thread. Put simply: if the Sox continue to play the way they currently are playing, they will not catch anyone. It does not take a rocket surgeon to see that. However, if they turn things around, they can certainly catch anyone in their division.

You're trying to argue that there is no way the Sox can turn things around. That's all fine and dandy, except that is not the main point of this thread. There are a million other threads out there that talk about why the Sox will suck the rest of the year. This is one that simply states that if they don't suck the rest of the year, they have a chance.

DeuceUnit
06-03-2007, 06:17 PM
How about we start with winning 3 games. That would be an amazing feat right now, let alone gaining 3 games.

champagne030
06-03-2007, 06:19 PM
That's all we need to do to make the playoffs.

I'm not saying we are in good shape - just that the season is far from over.

http://www.waimeacoffeecompany.com/images/21.jpg

ilsox7
06-03-2007, 06:25 PM
As evidence that the Sox are not out of it if they turn it around ASAP, I give you the Minnestoa Twins. In the last week and a half, they have gained 2 games on Cleveland, 5 games on Detroit, and 6 games on us. They looked as bad as the Sox have looked, yet had a good week and a half or so.

alohafri
06-03-2007, 10:44 PM
It does not take a rocket surgeon .

Don't you mean a brain scientist? :redneck

johnny bench
06-03-2007, 11:39 PM
As evidence that the Sox are not out of it if they turn it around ASAP, I give you the Minnestoa Twins. In the last week and a half, they have gained 2 games on Cleveland, 5 games on Detroit, and 6 games on us. They looked as bad as the Sox have looked, yet had a good week and a half or so.

BTW: This idea of a team picking up 3 games or more in the standings from June 2 until the end of the year and and making the playoffs is an interesting one, yet exceedingly rare to accomplish. Last year there were only two teams able to fulfill these criteria: Oakland and Minnesota. If you want to cite Minnesota's resurgence this year as hope for the 2007 White Sox in their playoff drive, go ahead; I am somewhat less certain that it is a good sign because it seems to me that when another team is able to gain 6 games on the White Sox in 10 days it means that our chances for making the playoffs have diminished.


White Sox record as of June 3:W L
2005 36 18
2006 34 21
2007 25 27

PaleHoseGeorge
06-03-2007, 11:58 PM
Wow... it's not too obvious that the White Sox franchise has won just one world championship in the last 90 years.

I love how everyone who bets against the Sox thinks it proves how "baseball smart" they are. Like betting "tails" on a coin that comes up "heads" once in 90 tosses takes some sort of genius?

Sorry. I'm not impressed. If you're so smart, tell me how you spent your championship winnings after laying the bet on the Sox going all the way the day after trading Carlos Lee. Then I'll have learned something.

:roflmao: