PDA

View Full Version : Is it time to look at KW


HotelWhiteSox
05-31-2007, 09:08 PM
I'm not looking for his head or anything, but just looking back at this offseason. Now, so far, the McCarthy thing looks brilliant, and even though it's early, a lot of people have eaten crow on it. Now the other focuses of the offseason:

- Going in with Erstad and Pods from an injury point of view, kind of fishy. Erstad has been a great surprise for me, but who didn't call an injury? Also sucks to have this production from our OFers in the minors when all we've heard for years is how we loaded we were there. Also, I'm a Chris Young guy, and thought it was criminal he got thrown into that Vazquez deal, we'll see how he turns out, but I think KW might've given up on one of the wrong outfielders

-The bullpen. Seems like Kenny only looked at pitch speed, and they simplified everything with 'throwing hard=good'. Multiple guys, some without any great history, have been shaky lately, and I don't remember a lot of bullpen guys just 'turning it around'.

-Still think you could've gotten more for Garcia (although I have no problem with trading him, thought it had to be done)

I just think we've been lucky with injuries in the past, but that you might have to prepare better for them and expect them to happen, especially the OF (throw what Dye was coming back from in there for past examples). I think this next offseason will be very telling by who we go after, because lately it looks like we love to try and get value guys or guys cheaper than they'd normally be because of them possibly being injury prone, busts, maybe character issues, etc.

102605
05-31-2007, 09:09 PM
Kenny earned a free pass from me.

Tragg
05-31-2007, 09:26 PM
We still have a lot of good pitchers on this team and when you have that, you are within shouting distance within a season or so. So, along with a 100MM payroll, this is fixable by this time next year, imo.

skobabe8
05-31-2007, 09:30 PM
I love hindsight.

Viva Medias B's
05-31-2007, 09:36 PM
-Still think you could've gotten more for Garcia (although I have no problem with trading him, thought it had to be done)

Oh, God. Please do not go there.

HotelWhiteSox
05-31-2007, 09:37 PM
We still have a lot of good pitchers on this team and when you have that, you are within shouting distance within a season or so. So, along with a 100MM payroll, this is fixable by this time next year, imo.

I don't even think we're dead yet for this year, but still seems like a lot of question marks for that payroll

WhiteSox5187
05-31-2007, 09:38 PM
I think Kenny is just as responsible for this team's struggles as Ozzie is.

sox1970
05-31-2007, 09:39 PM
I don't even think we're dead yet for this year, but still seems like a lot of question marks for that payroll

The Sox are 58-68 over their last 126. They're not good enough.

skobabe8
05-31-2007, 09:39 PM
I think Kenny is just as responsible for this team's struggles as Ozzie is.

Just curious, how much is that?

WhiteSox5187
05-31-2007, 09:48 PM
Just curious, how much is that?
It's hard to say, really....I mean, Ozzie is playing with the players that Kenny gave him and when you think about it, the guys Kenny got weren't really all that good. But I stop and think "Well, what could we have done in the off season that would have made us better?" As I recall the talk was for a new SS, CF, and bullpen help. Well, he got us Erstad (even though we knew he was injury prone, but so was JD when we brought him in). He didn't attempt to fix the SS problem...he DID address the bullpen but everyone he brought in has sucked. But who else could he have gotten? I think Kenny is about, 15% responsible for this team, as is Ozzie. Bad weather acounts for 1% of the problems. Bad luck/injuries 22%, the other 53% falls squarely on the shoulders of the members of this team.

lakeviewsoxfan
05-31-2007, 09:51 PM
IMO KW is still responsible for last years Mack in CF debacle, it was clear in April he was not comfortable in CF but not a thing was done to correct the problem, I also think KW is an ego-maniac who refuses to admit a mistake has been made with the current make up of this team, the extension given to Vazquez in spring training still boggles my mind. So I believe it is time to look at KW and our whole front office as a whole because we have not produced a "prospect" since Crede and he looks like his best days are far behind him, in fact I believe he will be the first of many to be traded in what will go down as a very dissapointing season.

Frater Perdurabo
05-31-2007, 09:53 PM
a lot of good pitchers...this is fixable by this time next year

KW should make lemonade from these lemons; re-load on the fly:

Contreras + prospects to Seattle for Ichiro. Paulie to LAA for Ervin Santana.

Call up Sweeney and Anderson, bat them 8-9 and live with it. Move Dye to 1B and live with it. Give the remaining pitching prospects a shot in the bullpen and live with it. Give Buehrle a new deal. Overpay if necessary.

New rotation: Buehrle, Garland, Santana, Danks, Vazquez

New lineup: Ichiro, Iguchi, Thome, Dye, AJ, Crede, Uribe, Sweeney, Anderson

Frontman
05-31-2007, 09:59 PM
If KW was head of the medical staff and a mystic, I'd blame him for everything that has gone wrong this season. He couldn't predict the amount of injuries. Hell, noone could.

That being said, I hope we see something happen soon to get the team moving. KW and Ozzie need to figure out what we need, who we need, and what it will take to get that need filled without opening up another hole in the team.

skobabe8
05-31-2007, 10:01 PM
It's hard to say, really....I mean, Ozzie is playing with the players that Kenny gave him and when you think about it, the guys Kenny got weren't really all that good. But I stop and think "Well, what could we have done in the off season that would have made us better?" As I recall the talk was for a new SS, CF, and bullpen help. Well, he got us Erstad (even though we knew he was injury prone, but so was JD when we brought him in). He didn't attempt to fix the SS problem...he DID address the bullpen but everyone he brought in has sucked. But who else could he have gotten? I think Kenny is about, 15% responsible for this team, as is Ozzie. Bad weather acounts for 1% of the problems. Bad luck/injuries 22%, the other 53% falls squarely on the shoulders of the members of this team.

I'm in no position to second guess KW. I thought he put together a pretty damn good bullpen, as did alot of others here. I thought Erstad was a so-so signing. You are correct about how you cant say he was injury prone because so was Dye.

The more this season continues to suck, the more I want to see a youth movement.

goon
05-31-2007, 10:10 PM
KW should make lemonade from these lemons; re-load on the fly:

Contreras + prospects to Seattle for Ichiro. Paulie to LAA for Ervin Santana.

Call up Sweeney and Anderson, bat them 8-9 and live with it. Move Dye to 1B and live with it. Give the remaining pitching prospects a shot in the bullpen and live with it. Give Buehrle a new deal. Overpay if necessary.

New rotation: Buehrle, Garland, Santana, Danks, Vazquez

New lineup: Ichiro, Iguchi, Thome, Dye, AJ, Crede, Uribe, Sweeney, Anderson

Are you serious? I think you need to take a closer look at Ervin Santana... and besides, if the Sox re-sign Buehrle we shouldn't have to worry too much about Starting Pitching. If we could make a deal for Ichiro and somehow get him to sign an extension I'd like to see a move in that direction, but who knows how realistic of an option that really is. I doubt Seattle is going to trade him and are probably going to go long lengths trying to re-sign him in the offseason.

Tragg
05-31-2007, 10:14 PM
KW should make lemonade from these lemons; re-load on the fly:

Contreras + prospects to Seattle for Ichiro. Paulie to LAA for Ervin Santana.

Call up Sweeney and Anderson, bat them 8-9 and live with it. Move Dye to 1B and live with it. Give the remaining pitching prospects a shot in the bullpen and live with it. Give Buehrle a new deal. Overpay if necessary.

New rotation: Buehrle, Garland, Santana, Danks, Vazquez

New lineup: Ichiro, Iguchi, Thome, Dye, AJ, Crede, Uribe, Sweeney, Anderson
I'd be a little hestiant to give up all of that to rent Ichiro. And then there's this: "Call up Sweeney and Anderson, bat them 8-9 and live with it" That's howling at the moon - this manager couldn't live with one of them batting 9 last year.

Flight #24
05-31-2007, 10:59 PM
If KW was head of the medical staff and a mystic, I'd blame him for everything that has gone wrong this season. He couldn't predict the amount of injuries. Hell, noone could.

Podsednik was injured in the offseason, and was coming off a year in which he was both injured and unproductive. Erstad's history is well known. As was Anderson's unpredictability and whatever attitude issues he has. So Kenny went into the season needing 2 of those guys to come through. How unpredictable!

Similarly, he went with 4 kids in the 'pen. Including 3 who had control issues. And guess what - they've had control issues. That's unpossible!

Don't get me wrong, the guy was all gold in 2005. And I was onboard with the Vazquez deal at the time. But eventually, you get graded on results - and 2005 doesn't give you an eternal license to get it wrong. I'm not suggesting he be fired, but the main person he should be pointing fingers at is himself.

If this doesn't turn around soon, the Sox should sell off guys they won't be retaining. The "reloading on the fly" hasn't worked, and keeping them and trying to scratch out a playoff spot in this division is unlikely to work so better to focus on next year (which IMO has been KW's focus anyway, to my chagrin).

kittle42
05-31-2007, 11:16 PM
I love hindsight.

Screw hindsight. Him sitting on his ass at the deadline last season was obviously a bad move at the time, and I disagreed with his moves in the offseason (staying with Pods; the Garcia trade; trying to trade Garland) at the time, too.

This team has sucked for the last two half seasons not only because they underachieved talent-wise, but also because Kenny Williams did not give them the roster they needed to succeed.

2005 was lightning in a bottle. Maybe that gave him a pass for last year. We have to be a winning franchise and not one of these with a fanbase that keeps pointing to a championship for years and years like everything else is forgiven.

PKalltheway
05-31-2007, 11:28 PM
Paulie to LAA for Ervin Santana.

I'll respectfully disagree with your opinion. Why trade the team captain for starting pitching, something that HAS been working for the Sox this year?

I'm against trading Paulie period.

Frontman
05-31-2007, 11:28 PM
Podsednik was injured in the offseason, and was coming off a year in which he was both injured and unproductive. Erstad's history is well known. As was Anderson's unpredictability and whatever attitude issues he has. So Kenny went into the season needing 2 of those guys to come through. How unpredictable!


If this doesn't turn around soon, the Sox should sell off guys they won't be retaining. The "reloading on the fly" hasn't worked, and keeping them and trying to scratch out a playoff spot in this division is unlikely to work so better to focus on next year (which IMO has been KW's focus anyway, to my chagrin).

Just as unpredictable as Jim Thome's resurgance without major injury last year, as well as just as unpredictable as Frank Thomas' recovery from his foot injuries.

My point being is that you can't always look at an injured player and expect them to remain injury prone. It isn't an exact science to predict anything.

Now, as far as the bullpen, absolutely I agree with you. KW took a chance, and for a while, it looked good. Now? Not so much. I'm glad Mark went all 8 today, as it at least gives the 'pen some rest, and maybe they'll snap out of it.

And I agree with you that KW needs to be making decisions and moves NOW, versus seeing how it "shakes out" come all-star break. By then, this team might be too far gone to save anything.

UserNameBlank
06-01-2007, 12:04 AM
There are times when I think KW is the only great thing about the organization.

No moves he has made since 2003 have hurt us. Well, the Paniagua thing was really bad but that didn't cost anything and he was gone asap, so whatever. Mike Jackson sucked but as in Paniagua, we didn't have anyone else and KW took a flyer. Ditto on Jeff Nelson.

The closest thing to a terrible trade was the Young for Vazquez deal, although Vazquez should be worth another prospect like Young anyway considering the decline in his HR rate, his durability, and the fact that he is signed long term. Additionally, KW got a player that should have helped us win another WS. Had our pitching been as good as it was supposed to have been, that would have happened.

Other moves that appear bad on the surface are the Foulke-for-Koch and Lee-for-Pods & Vizcaino trades, but those deals got us three players including Cotts that were key to a title. Viz then helped get us Javy and Cotts brought us Aardsma and Vasquez, so those have worked. Even though we still should have gotten more for El Caballo.

The bottom line though is that there are no moves KW has made that you can look at and say "gee, we really got screwed." Most of his moves have worked brilliantly and been total rip-offs in our favor, and if it wasn't for him, this team probably wouldn't have sniffed 90 wins at any time over the last few years.

A. Cavatica
06-01-2007, 12:11 AM
When you look at each trade separately, KW's had more good trades than bad ones, but he has assembled a seriously flawed team.

Jenks, MacDougal, Thornton, Aardsma, Masset, Sisco, Floyd -- KW has always been a sucker for 'stuff' pitchers, even if they have lousy command and high ERAs. As proof, remember this spring, when Logan was the last man cut despite being unscored upon. I am not surprised our pen is walking guys and giving up runs.

And among position players, the weakness for alleged 'grinders' who can't do the little things is ridiculous. The team OBP is a pathetic .311 -- league average is .335 -- and that includes Thome at .513! We're below average in SB percentage and near the bottom of the league in steals.

If you look at some celebrated smallball teams, they had good OBPs and good pitching. The '59 Sox were 3rd in the AL in OBP, 1st in ERA. The '82 Cardinals were 1st in OBP, 3rd in ERA. The '85 Cardinals were 1st in OBP, 2nd in ERA.

The '05 Sox -- 1st in ERA but only 11th in OBP -- were not a smallball team. They won with pitching, 200 home runs and (let's face it) good luck. The '07 Sox are ninth in ERA (4.52) , last in OBP, and unlucky as ****. The '07 team is just bad.

I'll grant you that several of our hitters are having awful years, but most are low-OBP guys even in their good years. Our offensive game has been based entirely on the home run since Pods got hurt in mid-2005. We are not a smallball team and expecting these players to play smallball is ridiculous.

I thought Ozzie's bad managing cost them the season last year. This year (so far) I give him credit for keeping this team around .500. But I'd like to see the smallball philosophy changed to fit the team or the team changed to fit the philosophy.

UserNameBlank
06-01-2007, 12:23 AM
When you look at each trade separately, KW's had more good trades than bad ones, but he has assembled a seriously flawed team.

Jenks, MacDougal, Thornton, Aardsma, Masset, Sisco, Floyd -- KW has always been a sucker for 'stuff' pitchers, even if they have lousy command and high ERAs. As proof, remember this spring, when Logan was the last man cut despite being unscored upon. I am not surprised our pen is walking guys and giving up runs.

And among position players, the weakness for alleged 'grinders' who can't do the little things is ridiculous. The team OBP is a pathetic .311 -- league average is .335 -- and that includes Thome at .513! We're below average in SB percentage and near the bottom of the league in steals.

If you look at some celebrated smallball teams, they had good OBPs and good pitching. The '59 Sox were 3rd in the AL in OBP, 1st in ERA. The '82 Cardinals were 1st in OBP, 3rd in ERA. The '85 Cardinals were 1st in OBP, 2nd in ERA.

The '05 Sox -- 1st in ERA but only 11th in OBP -- were not a smallball team. They won with pitching, 200 home runs and (let's face it) good luck. The '07 Sox are ninth in ERA (4.52) , last in OBP, and unlucky as ****. The '07 team is just bad.

I'll grant you that several of our hitters are having awful years, but most are low-OBP guys even in their good years. Our offensive game has been based entirely on the home run since Pods got hurt in mid-2005. We are not a smallball team and expecting these players to play smallball is ridiculous.

I thought Ozzie's bad managing cost them the season last year. This year (so far) I give him credit for keeping this team around .500. But I'd like to see the smallball philosophy changed to fit the team or the team changed to fit the philosophy.

I agree with most of this but about KW's love of stuff from his pen, I think he's right on the money. KW has been here long enough to see pen guys without that extra something get killed here. If we played in Petco or something it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but in the Cell we need guys who can get a way with mistakes a little more. Especially since they changed the upper deck area and added the new roof.

I think most of these guys are going to end up pretty pretty solid if not lights out. Aardsma and Logan I think have a very good shot at being top flight set-up men but need to find control. Day will get a long look and we'll see how he does. Sisco - who knows, but he is still young enough to get himself under control in Charlotte. The pen has ben terrible the last month, but I don't really worry about that because these guys are young and will get better with more experience. Besides, who needs a bullpen when your offense can't score any runs?

ZombieRob
06-01-2007, 12:34 AM
I start with the players when it comes to blame.Then Ozzie with his stupid line-ups ,just my opinion.But if nothing gets fixed ,or doesn't turn around soon then you really have to start looking K.Ws' way.And why do Ozzie and K.W get free passes? Just because of 2005? To me thats absurd.As a fan i want and expect more .Just to accept failure and say,"Oh well,we won in 2005". So management gets a free pass is lame. No matter who your a fan of ,you should expect excellence every year from the team you love and follow.

TomBradley72
06-01-2007, 08:35 AM
The reality is that KW is now 1(2005) for 7(2001,2002,2003,2004,2006,2007) as a GM...many GREAT moves contributed to 2005, many questionable moves (Wells,Ritchie,Koch,Vazquez,etc.) contributed to the six seasons where we did not make the post season.

They seemed to immediately move away from what made them successful in 2005 by building a line up with almost no small ball/speed other than Mr. Glass...Podesednik. He's accountable.

Tragg
06-01-2007, 08:44 AM
The bottom line though is that there are no moves KW has made that you can look at and say "gee, we really got screwed." Most of his moves have worked brilliantly and been total rip-offs in our favor, and if it wasn't for him, this team probably wouldn't have sniffed 90 wins at any time over the last few years.
That's true; but the purpose of trading isn't to "not get screwed" or to screw someone else - the purpose is make the team a perennial contender. I would say that Jim Hendry has screwed more teams in trades (Lee, Ramirez) than he has gotten screwed (Pierre) - yet he has yet to put together anything close to a consistent baseball team.

Overall, Williams has been great. But this team had issues in the offseason that are popping again and needs his talents now to get back in the race if not this year, next. We hold him to an very high standard, no doubt.

Frontman
06-01-2007, 09:29 AM
That's true; but the purpose of trading isn't to "not get screwed" or to screw someone else - the purpose is make the team a perennial contender. I would say that Jim Hendry has screwed more teams in trades (Lee, Ramirez) than he has gotten screwed (Pierre) - yet he has yet to put together anything close to a consistent baseball team.

Overall, Williams has been great. But this team had issues in the offseason that are popping again and needs his talents now to get back in the race if not this year, next. We hold him to an very high standard, no doubt.

Yes, some of these moves have not paid off for the Sox, but some of them have. Granted, you could look at how players are doing this year who were once with the Sox and go "We'd be better off if we still had them," (ie Maggs, Rowand, and Lee) but we also would of probably not won the Series in 2005.

I trust KW will not stand pat as he did last year coming up to the trade deadline. That approach didn't work last year, and Kenny has proven he'll try to fix it for this season first, then try to build for next season if it seems impossible to save this season.

BeviBall!
06-01-2007, 09:44 AM
The team is getting older and many closer to free agency that JR won't bid for (and I really wouldn't blame him this time). I bet it will take a 20+ win June for Kenny not to start dumping salaries and re-stocking the farm system that is so badly depleted.

Kenny has done so much for this team and for every Ritchie or Vazquez, there's about 3 other moves in his favor. He can keep on doing what he wants and there'll be no beef from me.

Juice16
06-01-2007, 09:54 AM
Oh, God. Please do not go there.

He is absolutley right about getting more for Garcia than we did. Right now we are struggling and have nothing to show for it. Out of the offseason trades, the McCarthy deal is the only one looking reasonable.

The Dude
06-01-2007, 10:00 AM
Are you serious? I think you need to take a closer look at Ervin Santana... and besides, if the Sox re-sign Buehrle we shouldn't have to worry too much about Starting Pitching. If we could make a deal for Ichiro and somehow get him to sign an extension I'd like to see a move in that direction, but who knows how realistic of an option that really is. I doubt Seattle is going to trade him and are probably going to go long lengths trying to re-sign him in the offseason.

Frater has never liked PK so I'm not surprised with the low assessment.

Ervin Santana
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=6280
5.48 ERA

dickallen15
06-01-2007, 10:07 AM
Its not necessarily the moves Kenny makes that you judge him entirely by, its some of the moves he doesn't make. Does passing on Justin Speier and signing Pods look good right now? Does counting on Brian Anderson to be a regular CF when you are defending a title look good? Kenny won in 2005 and you will never be able to take that away, but if you want to praise him for that and give him and Ozzie all the credit, you have to hold them responsible for failure. KW said he wanted to keep the 2006 team in place for the most part, he said they couldn't play any worse and they won 90 games. It appears he was wrong. I'm not advocating getting rid of him, I'm just saying he hasn't been very good the past 12 months.

102605
06-01-2007, 10:13 AM
Contreras + prospects to Seattle for Ichiro. Paulie to LAA for Ervin Santana.


Are you kidding? Seattle wouldn't take the entire Charlotte Knights team for Ichiro. Santana also is a headcase who has never and will never hit his potential on the field.

IspepAloc
06-01-2007, 10:14 AM
Can Kobe play Centerfield?

Kenny Go Get Him!

kittle42
06-01-2007, 10:24 AM
I'm gonna predict that by the end of the season, we'll be back to Reinsdorf bashing.

Paulwny
06-01-2007, 10:29 AM
I'm gonna predict that by the end of the season, we'll be back to Reinsdorf bashing.


I've always enjoyed those, where's Lip ?

ZombieRob
06-01-2007, 10:40 AM
Reinsdorf,wether you love him or hate him,is the best owner this town has ever seen.One of the few who really seems to want to win with both clubs.

Flight #24
06-01-2007, 10:41 AM
Its not necessarily the moves Kenny makes that you judge him entirely by, its some of the moves he doesn't make.

Bottom line is that everyone's judged on results. Players are judged on their individual performance, and the GM & Manager are judged on the overall success of the team.

Unfortunately, right now the Sox don't look like a playoff team (especially given the division they're in). And it's not like the problems are all unprojectable ones. Injuries to Erstad & Pods, and inconsistency of young relief pitchers should be expected and planned for.

And even more unfortunately, it's not like their minor league system is brimming with potential star players.

EDIT: And it's not like Jerry's being cheap since the payroll's staying right around $100M. It's the allocation and use of those resources.

UserNameBlank
06-01-2007, 11:14 AM
Bottom line is that everyone's judged on results. Players are judged on their individual performance, and the GM & Manager are judged on the overall success of the team.

Unfortunately, right now the Sox don't look like a playoff team (especially given the division they're in). And it's not like the problems are all unprojectable ones. Injuries to Erstad & Pods, and inconsistency of young relief pitchers should be expected and planned for.

And even more unfortunately, it's not like their minor league system is brimming with potential star players.

EDIT: And it's not like Jerry's being cheap since the payroll's staying right around $100M. It's the allocation and use of those resources.
True, but a lot of teams aren't brimming with talent in the minor leagues. The Pods signing was understandable when the alternative was paying Juan Pierre or Dave Roberts star money. Erstad would have been a great 4th OF but he was made the starting CF. He did very well in terms of clutch hitting, but now he's injured (big surprise). He wasn't going to be the starting CF in KW's mind though, just insurance, so it's not like they totally disregarded CF.

Injuries happen and players get older. KW put together two very, very good teams in '05 and '06 and got a World Championship out of it. 2007 was about keeping the window open but also being smart and getting some younger guys for '08 and beyond. He knew this type of thing would happen to us eventually because he has a black belt in psychic ability, so he prepared for it.

Now KW has to finish the job. Thanks a million to KW and JR for putting together 2 of the best 3 Sox teams I've ever seen in my life (the other being the '94 strike season team), and now I fully support tanking this terrible team and building another championship core over the next couple of years.

IndianWhiteSox
06-01-2007, 11:21 AM
True, but a lot of teams aren't brimming with talent in the minor leagues. The Pods signing was understandable when the alternative was paying Juan Pierre or Dave Roberts star money. Erstad would have been a great 4th OF but he was made the starting CF. He did very well in terms of clutch hitting, but now he's injured (big surprise). He wasn't going to be the starting CF in KW's mind though, just insurance, so it's not like they totally disregarded CF.

Injuries happen and players get older. KW put together two very, very good teams in '05 and '06 and got a World Championship out of it. 2007 was about keeping the window open but also being smart and getting some younger guys for '08 and beyond. He knew this type of thing would happen to us eventually because he has a black belt in psychic ability, so he prepared for it.

Now KW has to finish the job. Thanks a million to KW and JR for putting together 2 of the best 3 Sox teams I've ever seen in my life (the other being the '94 strike season team), and now I fully support tanking this terrible team and building another championship core over the next couple of years.

The screwed up part about this is that if they just signed Furcal in '05 and Pierre last season, then we wouldn't be in this situation right now. I mean at first I was glad that they didn't but now looking back on it, I wish we had those two instead of Uribe and ???? at CF. But then again, I was expecting big things from BA and he has me look rather foolish.

UserNameBlank
06-01-2007, 11:56 AM
The screwed up part about this is that if they just signed Furcal in '05 and Pierre last season, then we wouldn't be in this situation right now. I mean at first I was glad that they didn't but now looking back on it, I wish we had those two instead of Uribe and ???? at CF. But then again, I was expecting big things from BA and he has me look rather foolish.
If they signed Furcal they wouldn't have been able to give out all those extensions and take on Vazquez and Thome. Plus they'd lose Uribe's power. Furcal is a very fine player, but IMO contracts like that should only be given to superstars and very good sarting pitchers. If Furcal could lead off and hit 30 HR's plus steal 40 bags, sure, he'd be worth more, but at least the spending would be justified.

Not signing Pierre was a no-brainer. Not for that money. Either wait for Ichiro to hit the market and get the best leadoff hitter in the game or make a deal for someone else making less money.

I was expecting a solid season from BA too, but he never got a fair shot. Maybe we'll see it soon after Owens bombs and/or someone else goes down.

A. Cavatica
06-02-2007, 12:28 AM
I'd like to see the smallball philosophy changed to fit the team or the team changed to fit the philosophy.

Ozzie, 6/1/2007:

"In 2004, we played good," Guillen said. "In 2005 we won [the World Series]. And 2006 we played good, and everyone was talking about Ozzie Ball. Well, I'm still here. It's still Ozzie Ball. We're losing because Ozzie Ball isn't working."

Could someone define Ozzie Ball? Because the past year sure hasn't been what I think Ozzie Ball is alleged to be (tonight's win excluded).

FarWestChicago
06-02-2007, 06:24 AM
There are times when I think KW is the only great thing about the organization.

No moves he has made since 2003 have hurt us. Well, the Paniagua thing was really bad but that didn't cost anything and he was gone asap, so whatever. Mike Jackson sucked but as in Paniagua, we didn't have anyone else and KW took a flyer. Ditto on Jeff Nelson.

The closest thing to a terrible trade was the Young for Vazquez deal, although Vazquez should be worth another prospect like Young anyway considering the decline in his HR rate, his durability, and the fact that he is signed long term. Additionally, KW got a player that should have helped us win another WS. Had our pitching been as good as it was supposed to have been, that would have happened.

Other moves that appear bad on the surface are the Foulke-for-Koch and Lee-for-Pods & Vizcaino trades, but those deals got us three players including Cotts that were key to a title. Viz then helped get us Javy and Cotts brought us Aardsma and Vasquez, so those have worked. Even though we still should have gotten more for El Caballo.

The bottom line though is that there are no moves KW has made that you can look at and say "gee, we really got screwed." Most of his moves have worked brilliantly and been total rip-offs in our favor, and if it wasn't for him, this team probably wouldn't have sniffed 90 wins at any time over the last few years.Wow, this is a great post. :thumbsup:

FarWestChicago
06-02-2007, 06:27 AM
The reality is that KW is now 1(2005) for 7(2001,2002,2003,2004,2006,2007) as a GM...many GREAT moves contributed to 2005, many questionable moves (Wells,Ritchie,Koch,Vazquez,etc.) contributed to the six seasons where we did not make the post season.

They seemed to immediately move away from what made them successful in 2005 by building a line up with almost no small ball/speed other than Mr. Glass...Podesednik. He's accountable.I hate being McCarver obvious, but you need to check your math. 1/7 is a hell of a lot better than 0/forever, which is what most Sox GM's have been and, indeed, the greatest GM in the history of all professional and amateur sports, is.

:fobbgod:

I don't care about luck. Nor do my minions.

MRM
06-02-2007, 08:58 AM
I don't even think we're dead yet for this year, but still seems like a lot of question marks for that payroll

Two teams with higher payrolls are in much worse shape than the Sox. That other Chicago team and the mighty Yankees. Just throwing money at players doesn't have a thing in the world to do with how they play.

Brian26
06-02-2007, 10:02 AM
The reality is that KW is now 1(2005) for 7(2001,2002,2003,2004,2006,2007) as a GM...many GREAT moves contributed to 2005, many questionable moves (Wells,Ritchie,Koch,Vazquez,etc.)

A bit unfair to rank him as one out of seven, especially since the building blocks of 2005 really happened before that.

The Jose Contreras for Esteban Loiaza trade was in 2004.
The Freddy Garcia for Olivo, Reed, and Morse trade was in 2004.

Cotts was winter '02/'03. Politte was winter '03/'04.

Brian26
06-02-2007, 10:05 AM
I'm gonna predict that by the end of the season, we'll be back to Reinsdorf bashing.

By the end of the season or after the season when our free agents possibly sign with other teams? I agree with you, but I don't think it truly happens unless Buehrle and Dye leave.

oldcomiskey
06-02-2007, 11:08 AM
I think Kenny is just as responsible for this team's struggles as Ozzie is.

I see your point because neither is responsible