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View Full Version : Photo and article about A.J. "incident"


DrCrawdad
05-31-2007, 07:12 AM
Here's a photo of A.J. stepping on Morneau's foot. The article (http://www.startribune.com/souhan/story/1213663.html) is by Jim Souhan of the Star Tribune.

I searched WSI and it appears that this article was only briefly mentioned (by a Twinkie troll) in the game thread yesterday. I'd like to hear what my fellow WSI friends have to say about Souhan's comments.


http://media.startribune.com/smedia/2007/05/29/21/513-3885440.doublewide.prod_affiliate.2.jpg
Another step closer and A.J. Pierzynski could have done some serious damage to Justin Morneau.Look at the photo and it appears to me that the person who could have been hurt is A.J. A.J. could have, and appears to have done it to a degree, turned his ankle and possibly seriously injured his foot/ankle.

...a day after White Sox villain A.J. Pierzynski tried to stomp on his Achilles' tendon...Ok, and the writer can definitely state that purpose and intent by A.J. how?

...A.J. tried to lie his way out of another jam.Again, he can definitely state that A.J. lied how?


A day after Pierzynski twice violated baseball's ethical code and probably the Geneva Convention by twice trying to step on Morneau's foot at first base, the Twins didn't even hit Pierzynski with a pitch.Look at that photo. It appears to me that Morneau's foot is over the top part of the bag. No doubt it's uncool to try and step on a first baseman's foot, but isn't it bad and possibly stupid for a first baseman to plant his foot on the top of the bag? And if the first baseman does that isn't he putting himself at risk of injury by doing so?

What is the official yet unofficial baseball rule about where a first baseman plants his foot and how the runner is supposed to handle it?

And again in this last quote Souhan attributes motive to A.J.

You know I remember hearing all too frequently from Cubbie media and arrogant Cubbie fans about how Sox fans have this "little brother syndrome," an "inferiority complex" and have a "chip on their shoulder." Well what's the deal with the Twins (Twins fans and their media) and the "chip on their shoulder?" Outside of '05 the Twins have pretty much owned the Sox so why the attitude?

bryPt
05-31-2007, 07:44 AM
The media will never change, other than the fact that they will only get worse and worse. The will try and find a controversy when the sun rises soon, just to stir crap up.

Ignore the media, all of it. Just watch the game, make your own opinions of what happened, and don't stoop to the level that all media sits right now, which would equal a steaming pile of you know what.

Soxfanspcu11
05-31-2007, 07:46 AM
Thanks Crawdad for the great picture and for the article quotes. It was interesting to see.

When you look at the picture, you could honestly go either way. I mean, his foot is CLEARLY halfway on the bag. 1st basemen are supposed to put their foot on the outside corner of the bag, barely touching it.

Back when I played baseball, I used to play first base, and when you are positioning yourself on the bag to recieve the throw, it is A LOT harder than most people think. You obviously can not look down at the base to see where to put your foot, because if you do, you will be taking your eyes off the play, and thus, taking your eyes off the ball. You have to "Feel" your way to the base and then position your foot correctly. I remember numerous times while playing first base where I would be almost frantically feeling around with my foot, trying to find the base. All the while, trying to keep my eye on the play and the ball, it is most certainly not easy.

It could very simply be that he positioned himself incorrectly and accidentely put his foot halfway on the base. That happened to me many times.

At the same time, I could see where the blame would/could be put on AJ. Obviously we don't know what was going through AJ's head, but it is possible that AJ saw his foot halfway on the base, and out of frustration, decided to stomp his foot. Is that what happened? Who knows.

All that I am saying is that it is appropriate to look at it from both sides. To try and understand what could have been going on in both players heads.

AJ is certainly intense and he obviously does stuff that pisses off many people. However, I just can not imagine that he was intentionally trying to harm anyone.

I firmly believe that if this was anyone other than AJ, it would not have been an issue. It's just one of those things that is amplified because it IS AJ.

And as you stated, if AJ did this intentionally, it would be pretty stupid on his part. After all, AJ was probably more at risk because he was running full speed. He could have easily rolled his ankle.

I think that this situation was played up for much more than it was. Again, just because it was AJ.

The only problem that I have with this play, as a Sox fan, is that it seemed to completely fire up the Twins. Remember, when this play happened, the Sox actually had the lead. Right after this, the Twins went nuts at the plate. This play, however un-important it appeared to be, was likely the turning point in the game. A situation that worked against us, very much so.:angry:

Steelrod
05-31-2007, 09:02 AM
Typically, the first baseman puts his foot to the side of the bag. The bag is somewhat slippery and the best way to hit it is in the middle. If you try to hit the right side and miss slightly, you will turn your ankle.
What AJ intent was is only known by him, but it would make little sense to try and injure Morneau and himself. Let it go!

DrCrawdad
05-31-2007, 09:42 AM
The media will never change, other than the fact that they will only get worse and worse. The will try and find a controversy when the sun rises soon, just to stir crap up.

Ignore the media, all of it. Just watch the game, make your own opinions of what happened, and don't stoop to the level that all media sits right now, which would equal a steaming pile of you know what.

The media loves and thrives on controversy. No doubt.

DrCrawdad
05-31-2007, 09:43 AM
Thanks Crawdad for the great picture and for the article quotes. It was interesting to see.

When you look at the picture, you could honestly go either way. I mean, his foot is CLEARLY halfway on the bag. 1st basemen are supposed to put their foot on the outside corner of the bag, barely touching it.

Back when I played baseball, I used to play first base, and when you are positioning yourself on the bag to recieve the throw, it is A LOT harder than most people think. You obviously can not look down at the base to see where to put your foot, because if you do, you will be taking your eyes off the play, and thus, taking your eyes off the ball. You have to "Feel" your way to the base and then position your foot correctly. I remember numerous times while playing first base where I would be almost frantically feeling around with my foot, trying to find the base. All the while, trying to keep my eye on the play and the ball, it is most certainly not easy.

It could very simply be that he positioned himself incorrectly and accidentely put his foot halfway on the base. That happened to me many times.

At the same time, I could see where the blame would/could be put on AJ. Obviously we don't know what was going through AJ's head, but it is possible that AJ saw his foot halfway on the base, and out of frustration, decided to stomp his foot. Is that what happened? Who knows.

All that I am saying is that it is appropriate to look at it from both sides. To try and understand what could have been going on in both players heads.

AJ is certainly intense and he obviously does stuff that pisses off many people. However, I just can not imagine that he was intentionally trying to harm anyone.

I firmly believe that if this was anyone other than AJ, it would not have been an issue. It's just one of those things that is amplified because it IS AJ.

And as you stated, if AJ did this intentionally, it would be pretty stupid on his part. After all, AJ was probably more at risk because he was running full speed. He could have easily rolled his ankle.

I think that this situation was played up for much more than it was. Again, just because it was AJ.

The only problem that I have with this play, as a Sox fan, is that it seemed to completely fire up the Twins. Remember, when this play happened, the Sox actually had the lead. Right after this, the Twins went nuts at the plate. This play, however un-important it appeared to be, was likely the turning point in the game. A situation that worked against us, very much so.:angry:


WOW! Completely agree!

peeonwrigley
05-31-2007, 09:44 AM
This is all a bunch of ****. Morneau's foot is covering more of the bag than a first baseman's should. AJ probably is running more to the inside of the bag than he should, but the top of the base is the runner's. All of it.

A still picture doesn't really show much in this sense (except Morneau exposing his foot/ankle) - the video did not show anything of AJ "going out of his way" or anything that would suggest intent.

If its any one person besides AJ this is a nothing story, and that is why the media eating right out of the Twins hands makes me sick. The Twins don't bitch and "rally behind the cause" if its another player, and the media doesn't blow up a non-story about it.

DrCrawdad
05-31-2007, 09:48 AM
Typically, the first baseman puts his foot to the side of the bag. The bag is somewhat slippery and the best way to hit it is in the middle. If you try to hit the right side and miss slightly, you will turn your ankle.
What AJ intent was is only known by him, but it would make little sense to try and injure Morneau and himself.

I agree.

Let it go!

Not sure if you mean me or the Twins. If you meant me, then well I can and will let it go as it's certainly not keeping me up at night.

That said though the Twins seem to have used this to fire up their team. The Sox record with against the Twins is only one game under .500. So the Sox can and hopefully will whip the Twins next time 'round.

Sox take the series against Toronto! GO-GO SOX!

Oblong
05-31-2007, 09:55 AM
I'm going to take a wild guess and assume those questioning the position of Morneau's foot never played first base. As mentioned earlier, that's one of the hardest parts about the position because you have to quickly get over there and guess, using your feet.

I'd go along with the idea that AJ didn't mean to do anything fishy if it were his other foot. But his outside foot is on the inside part of the bag. That tells me he was trying to get inside. There's a lot of white for AJ to aim for.

peeonwrigley
05-31-2007, 10:03 AM
I'm going to take a wild guess and assume those questioning the position of Morneau's foot never played first base. As mentioned earlier, that's one of the hardest parts about the position because you have to quickly get over there and guess, using your feet.


I played first base throughout my stellar baseball career of high school and legion ball. I know there are plays where you scramble to get your placement on the bag. Usually was not the case with the other teams slow catcher. Wasn't it a 6-4-3 double play? Morneau had plenty of time to check his feet and get set to take the throw from second.

eriqjaffe
05-31-2007, 10:04 AM
I remember the last time A.J. stepped on somebody...

http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/6145/pastedimagewe6.jpg

Seems like so long ago, doesn't it?

DrCrawdad
05-31-2007, 10:14 AM
I'm going to take a wild guess and assume those questioning the position of Morneau's foot never played first base. As mentioned earlier, that's one of the hardest parts about the position because you have to quickly get over there and guess, using your feet.

I'd go along with the idea that AJ didn't mean to do anything fishy if it were his other foot. But his outside foot is on the inside part of the bag. That tells me he was trying to get inside. There's a lot of white for AJ to aim for.

Interesting points. However, if I were A.J. I'd be more concerned with rolling my ankle and hurting myself.

The Twins were quick to spot this and yelp about it. No doubt they know A.J. and his methods. But let's be clear too that A.J. is also a product of their system. I remember someone, maybe it was A.J., talking about how the Twins instill tough play into their players.

The example I remember hearing is how they train and require their fielders to in a "passive aggressive" way get in the path of baserunners.

Then there is when Tori Hunter went out of his way to run over Jaime Burke. Burke was in front of the plate, running over Burke was not necessary and Hunter went out of his way to take out Burke. It was an aggressive play. I doubt Souhan complained about that play.

Perhaps Souhan and the Twins were quick to spot this A.J. incident because it is exactly the kind of hard-nosed (and perhaps dirty) play that the Twins instill, train and celebrate.

cbrownson13
05-31-2007, 11:53 AM
The bag is there for the runner to hit as he goes by. There are no rules saying the runner has to hit a certain part of the base.

There's a reason first baseman don't normally put their foot on top of the bag - there is a good chance it will get stepped on.

Whether there was intent or not, AJ can step anywhere on that bag that he chooses and if Morneau's foot gets clipped he has no one to blame but himself.

pssondacubs
05-31-2007, 12:00 PM
Whether he did it on purpose or not is just anybodys guess. Only A.J. knows. But I'm getting tired of the constant Mod edit from this guy all the time. The same goes for Ozzie and his temper. A.J. isn't a tough guy, he's an Eddie Haskell type bully. When he got decked by Barrett, he goes straight into the dugout and then pumps his fist. A real tough guy would never have ran away like that. Brian Anderson and Pods stayed out there and cleaned up that mess. People say that staying out there would have gotten him suspended. So what? It might have had a large positive effect on the rest of the team. This continuous crap doesn't help win games and that's what we need right now.

ma-gaga
05-31-2007, 12:07 PM
Perhaps Souhan and the Twins were quick to spot this A.J. incident because it is exactly the kind of hard-nosed (and perhaps dirty) play that the Twins instill, train and celebrate.

General:
Souhan is a hack. He sucks. He's terrible. He's the worst Star Tribune sports writer on staff. And for a newspaper that employees Sid Hartman, that's saying a lot. To analyze his writing is a waste of time and space. If I was a moderator I would ban people for quoting his writing on WSI. :cool:

The play:
The Twins got fired up by two things. One, AJ put his foot on the infield side of the base both times. Not by a lot, and I don't think his intent was evil or malicious, but the Twins decided to chirp about it.

The first base umpire then decided to take matters into his hands, walked towards the Twins dugout, made a throat slashing gesture to tell the Twins bench to "cut it out". Gardenhire took offense at the umpire making that signal/call. That is why this is a controversy. That particular umpire was replaced for the final two games of the series and I don't think there was any explanation given. Later on that day, AJ made some comments that this was the same umpire that ejected AJ for doing nothing besides receiving a Michael Barrett elbow. ... It's the umpire that was the problem.

Souhan, the uninspired, untalented hack, then wrote about it. Trust me, if you are going to look for intellegent information or discussion stay away from Souhan. Look towards the beat writers like LaVelle E Neal (http://www.startribune.com/blogs/neal/), or Joe Christensen (http://www.startribune.com/blogs/christensen/)

Christensen's been pumping out a lot of really good Twins material and has a much better take on the situation from the Twins POV.

:gulp:

balke
05-31-2007, 12:07 PM
Funny. The media has so much power to turn you into a heel. I'm waiting for the A.J. nipple-slip photos.

The Critic
05-31-2007, 12:20 PM
I'd go along with the idea that AJ didn't mean to do anything fishy if it were his other foot. But his outside foot is on the inside part of the bag. That tells me he was trying to get inside. There's a lot of white for AJ to aim for.

This is what convinced me that AJ was trying to clip Morneau's foot.
I played softball with an ******* who tried to do that kind of thing at least twice per season, and when AJ did that it immediately reminded me of my former teammate.
I obviously can't KNOW what AJ's intentions were, but it looked really fishy to me.

wassagstdu
05-31-2007, 01:41 PM
Looks to me like the baserunner's equivalent of a brush-back pitch. Not intended to do damage, just to claim ownership of the top of the bag. If the first baseman crowds the runner by claiming some of the top of the bag, it increases the risk that the runner will hit the edge of the bag and turn an ankle. The runner has way less control if he is running as hard as he can, and forcing him to be careful not to step on the first baseman's foot slows him down. I see this as passive-aggressive behavior by Mourneau of the type mentioned in an earlier post as part of the Twins' culture. AJ knows that better than anyone else on the Sox.

DickAllen72
05-31-2007, 01:50 PM
Looks to me like the baserunner's equivalent of a brush-back pitch. Not intended to do damage, just to claim ownership of the top of the bag. If the first baseman crowds the runner by claiming some of the top of the bag, it increases the risk that the runner will hit the edge of the bag and turn an ankle. The runner has way less control if he is running as hard as he can, and forcing him to be careful not to step on the first baseman's foot slows him down. I see this as passive-aggressive behavior by Mourneau of the type mentioned in an earlier post as part of the Twins' culture. AJ knows that better than anyone else on the Sox.
Good analysis.

I'm sure AJ intended to come very close to Morneau. I'm equally sure he was certain not to spike him or cause him any injury. AJ is a hard nosed player who likes to play head games. He is not a dirty player who goes around looking to injure people or sucker punch them.

MySoxAreClean
05-31-2007, 09:13 PM
so who shot JFK?

RadioheadRocks
05-31-2007, 11:35 PM
The Minnesota Twins... making more mountains out of molehills than the Wonderbra. :rolling:

Frankfan4life
06-01-2007, 12:00 AM
I was going to buy a Dye jersey and then after some consideration, I decided to buy an AJ jersey instead. I just like the way AJ plays the game. He doesn't mind taking the heat. I disagree that he's a dirty player. I just think he plays heads-up baseball and he's in it to win it all the time. I think it's pretty hard to come down on a player's foot with your back foot. The timing would have to be close to perfect. I think it was just an accident.

eriqjaffe
06-01-2007, 12:38 AM
so who shot JFK?AJ!

DrCrawdad
06-01-2007, 09:29 AM
'Cuddly' Twins pros or cons?
Check the evidence: 'Hard-nosed gamers' label cute, but they're as dirty as they come

June 1, 2007


BY JOE COWLEY (jcowley@suntimes.com) Staff Reporter


TORONTO -- I give my older brother, Jimmy, credit. He knew early on that he was more like Fredo Corleone and I was more like Sonny. That meant long car rides with a Sicilian mother and half-Italian/half-Irish father usually ended the same way.

Jimmy would quietly taunt me, make me lose my temper and watch me act out. Then while I was getting punished, there sat ''Fredo,'' docile, always the victim.


In other words, just like the Minnesota Twins.


Click here (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/410224,CST-SPT-joe01.article) for the rest of the article.

IndianWhiteSox
06-01-2007, 02:19 PM
The Minnesota Twins... making more mountains out of molehills than the Wonderbra. :rolling:

:kneeslap::kneeslap: