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View Full Version : *Official* 5-29-07 Chris Rongey Postgame Show Thread


Brian26
05-29-2007, 10:08 PM
This should be fun.

Brian26
05-29-2007, 10:09 PM
First caller wants to know if the Sox are going to have to go outside the organization for a quick fix.

Rongey doesn't think calling up Jerry Owens right now is the answer.

itsnotrequired
05-29-2007, 10:09 PM
This should be fun.

Haven't you heard? The Sox are already sellers. Bring out your dead because the wheelbarrow is making the rounds.

:rolleyes:

delben91
05-29-2007, 10:11 PM
Haven't you heard? The Sox are already sellers. Bring out your dead because the wheelbarrow is making the rounds.

:rolleyes:

"I'm not dead yet."
"You will be soon."
"I think I'm getting better."

Brian26
05-29-2007, 10:12 PM
Rongey says they're going to take calls all night so people can "vent."

NSSoxFan
05-29-2007, 10:13 PM
Got get 'em tomorrow. It's tough to watch these games. I hope this doesn't turn into May/June of 2001.

gobears1987
05-29-2007, 10:13 PM
Oh well, we all knew Danks would have to have a bad start at some point.

vegyrex
05-29-2007, 10:13 PM
What a dreadful game.

Time to get the U-haul and start loading it up. :(:

southsideirish71
05-29-2007, 10:14 PM
Rongey says they're going to take calls all night so people can "vent."

the minute he gets a tough question he will break out a gift card to something. its his version of a changeup.

southsideirish71
05-29-2007, 10:15 PM
Rongey just renamed the MVP from last year to Jason.

Brian26
05-29-2007, 10:16 PM
Dave from Berwyn switched over to the dog show on Animal Planet during the game.

Dave wants people to stop kissing Minnesota ass; the Sox should start beaning Twins hitters.

Dave thinks Chris B. Young is the next Torii Hunter.

sox1970
05-29-2007, 10:19 PM
Just got back from the Dome. I hate that place. Somebody threw back Konerko's ground rule double. They might as well be cheeseheads.

If the Sox don't go 27-12 from here to the break, they're done.

Brian26
05-29-2007, 10:21 PM
Jim from Lakeview is actually in Winfield.

He's throwing in the towel. He doesn't mind if the Sox unload everyone (like the Marlins) and start over so he can go to the games to see young talent :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

If he wants to see young talent, he should go watch a little league game.

MUsoxfan
05-29-2007, 10:22 PM
Oh well, we all knew Danks would have to have a bad start at some point.

Exactly. It's unfair to expect too much of him. He will get rocked from time to time.

I'm as okay with this loss as I can be with any loss. Yesterday's was much more frustrating. Regardless of how dopey his name sounds, Boof Bonser is actually a pretty good pitcher.

Patrick134
05-29-2007, 10:22 PM
Just got back from the Dome. I hate that place. Somebody threw back Konerko's ground rule double. They might as well be cheeseheads.

I was there yesterday, they were doing the wave. It's very quiet at times too, late in the game i could hear the ump say "ball four" on a walk, and he wasn't yelling. the place is a dump.

CHISOXFAN13
05-29-2007, 10:22 PM
Rongey just sent me an instant message asking me if I wanted to do the show tonight. I'm not listening, but it must be insane.

FielderJones
05-29-2007, 10:23 PM
Somebody threw back Konerko's ground rule double. They might as well be cheeseheads.

That really shows the power of the Cubune propaganda network. Why would fans of any team want to imitate the fans of the most pathetic franchise in the history of professional sports? It just boggles the mind.

southsideirish71
05-29-2007, 10:24 PM
Jim from Lakeview is actually in Winfield.

He's throwing in the towel. He doesn't mind if the Sox unload everyone (like the Marlins) and start over so he can go to the games to see young talent :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

If he wants to see young talent, he should go watch a little league game.

Here is the problem with the unload everything crowd. What exactly has tangible talent that will bring you back more than the comp picks.

If Dye is hiting in the low .200s is he going to get a bunch of blue chippers.
Crede and his poor batting average, little power this year, and bad back.

The only one that really has value is Buerhle and the rest of the starting pitching. Vazquez would have value do to his longevity of his contract. Unloading our best assett at this time is not prudent to win for a while.

May the xbox360 speculation trades begin.

sox1970
05-29-2007, 10:25 PM
I was there yesterday, they were doing the wave. It's very quiet at times too, late in the game i could hear the ump say "ball four" on a walk, and he wasn't yelling. the place is a dump.

There was a couple db's next to me with homemade anti-AJ t-shirts trying to start the wave. So bad.... oh well, it's only one game a year there for me.

CLR01
05-29-2007, 10:25 PM
Skip Danks!

Patrick134
05-29-2007, 10:25 PM
Here is the problem with the unload everything crowd. What exactly has tangible talent that will bring you back more than the comp picks.

If Dye is hiting in the low .200s is he going to get a bunch of blue chippers.
Crede and his poor batting average, little power this year, and bad back.

The only one that really has value is Buerhle and the rest of the starting pitching. Vazquez would have value do to his longevity of his contract. Unloading our best assett at this time is not prudent to win for a while.

May the xbox360 speculation trades begin.

I'd always keep good pitching over hitting. look at all those brave teams. the pitching was always there as hitters left.

UserNameBlank
05-29-2007, 10:25 PM
Nothing the Sox have done so far say they are anything more than a .500 baseball team.

Either significant additions need to be made or several players should be traded. We are going nowhere as it is.

HotelWhiteSox
05-29-2007, 10:26 PM
I think you're allowed to be worried.

I don't really remember bullpen guys just 'turning it around' all of a sudden. A lot of young guys in there and it seems like MacDougal (who was supposed to be a sure thing) is turning into the new Marte.

Also, you don't really remember the Sox coming from behind to take a division late in the year, all I remember them doing is being in first for a big chunk of the season whenever they make the playoffs, and this will definately be a competitve multiteam race.

I think will have great stretches and be good, but I don't know if it'll be good enough to make the playoffs in this league/division

Patrick134
05-29-2007, 10:26 PM
There was a couple db's next to me with homemade anti-AJ t-shirts trying to start the wave. So bad.... oh well, it's only one game a year there for me.


They all loved aj a few years back, and they'll all boo Toriiiiiiiii when he's a yankee.

delben91
05-29-2007, 10:26 PM
Skip Danks!

I think we need Tony back. Is he hibernating? Or is he staying in the background out of respect for Ersty?

Harry Potter
05-29-2007, 10:27 PM
I think will have great stretches and be good, but I don't know if it'll be good enough to make the playoffs in this league/division

if only this division was as "easy" as it was a few years back..

Brian26
05-29-2007, 10:28 PM
Mike from Aurora thinks he can call a better game that AJ.

Patrick134
05-29-2007, 10:28 PM
Nothing the Sox have done so far say they are anything more than a .500 baseball team.

Either significant additions need to be made or several players should be traded. We are going nowhere as it is.


The sox have slumped horribly at the plate and are still a game over .500. Now either it's not a sluimp and they really have that bad an offense, or when they hit they'll catch fire. Absolutely zero point in making any trades right now.

skobabe8
05-29-2007, 10:29 PM
I watched Ronge do his post game show over the weekend and he is pretty entertaining during the dumb calls. He mouthed some words that the FCC would not like.

JB98
05-29-2007, 10:32 PM
A couple weeks ago, we had a thread about the worst three-game series we've ever seen the Sox play. We're 2/3 of the way toward adding to that list. Just brutal for the third straight day. Let's hope Garland can be the stopper tomorrow. The pitching, both starters and relievers, has been horrible during this three-game skid. I've been having 2003 flashbacks the last couple days. Shudder.

UserNameBlank
05-29-2007, 10:34 PM
Here is the problem with the unload everything crowd. What exactly has tangible talent that will bring you back more than the comp picks.

If Dye is hiting in the low .200s is he going to get a bunch of blue chippers.
Crede and his poor batting average, little power this year, and bad back.

The only one that really has value is Buerhle and the rest of the starting pitching. Vazquez would have value do to his longevity of his contract. Unloading our best assett at this time is not prudent to win for a while.

May the xbox360 speculation trades begin.
I agree that the half season rental guys aren't going to be worth a whole lot judging by the last few trade deadlines, and depending on the player, it would be smarter to hold on to them and hope they re-sign. If not, arbitration is a possibility and if that is declined, we would get several picks in the supplemental phase of next year's draft.

If the Sox take the sell approach instead of the add approach (because the stand pat approach does no one any good), I'd like to see them hang on to Dye, Buehrle, and Iguchi unless someone makes an offer KW can't refuse. I would shop Contreras, MacDougal, Thornton, Crede, Uribe, Erstad, Mack, and maybe Thome if he wanted to waive his no-trade clause and accept a trade to a team other than Cleveland. Some of those guys, in particular Erstad and Mack, wouldn't fetch a whole lot, but these guys could be dumped next year anyway and if they good bring in another project it could be worth it.

CLR01
05-29-2007, 10:35 PM
I think we need Tony back. Is he hibernating? Or is he staying in the background out of respect for Ersty?

He became a Cub fan. :?:


Tony made an appearance for the walk off game over the weekend. He's feeling a bit under appreciated.

SoxandtheCityTee
05-29-2007, 10:36 PM
Through today's games the Sox are two games behind Detroit, and four behind Cleveland, in the loss column. A bit early to cash in the chips, but then losses in the Trash Bag Dome are peculiarly painful.

skobabe8
05-29-2007, 10:37 PM
At least we're not the Yankees. Or the Astros.

Patrick134
05-29-2007, 10:37 PM
Through today's games the Sox are two games behind Detroit, and four behind Cleveland, in the loss column. A bit early to cash in the chips, but then losses in the Trash Bag Dome are peculiarly painful.


Great point. Those teams have largley been on fire, while it feels like the sox have played horribly. It's due to turn around.

southsideirish71
05-29-2007, 10:38 PM
I agree that the half season rental guys aren't going to be worth a whole lot judging by the last few trade deadlines, and depending on the player, it would be smarter to hold on to them and hope they re-sign. If not, arbitration is a possibility and if that is declined, we would get several picks in the supplemental phase of next year's draft.

If the Sox take the sell approach instead of the add approach (because the stand pat approach does no one any good), I'd like to see them hang on to Dye, Buehrle, and Iguchi unless someone makes an offer KW can't refuse. I would shop Contreras, MacDougal, Thornton, Crede, Uribe, Erstad, Mack, and maybe Thome if he wanted to waive his no-trade clause and accept a trade to a team other than Cleveland. Some of those guys, in particular Erstad and Mack, wouldn't fetch a whole lot, but these guys could be dumped next year anyway and if they good bring in another project it could be worth it.

The only way you sign Dye to a long term deal is if you move Thome. Dye is very quickly becoming a DH. His range in RF is bad moving laterally. He still goes back on the ball pretty good.

Brian26
05-29-2007, 10:38 PM
Tom from Aurora is on the ledge.

He thinks the bullpen has quality arms but not quality pitchers. That's actually a pretty profound statement. Give him the gift certificate, Rongey.

JB98
05-29-2007, 10:38 PM
Through today's games the Sox are two games behind Detroit, and four behind Cleveland, in the loss column. A bit early to cash in the chips, but then losses in the Trash Bag Dome are peculiarly painful.

I don't find the pain of these losses peculiar at all. I hate the Twins more than any team in professional baseball. I know exactly why I hate losing to them so much.

UserNameBlank
05-29-2007, 10:39 PM
The sox have slumped horribly at the plate and are still a game over .500. Now either it's not a sluimp and they really have that bad an offense, or when they hit they'll catch fire. Absolutely zero point in making any trades right now.
The annoying thing about this team is that rarely get everything right at the same time, going all the way back to the start of last year. Either the rotation, the bullpen, or the offense will perform well but another area will fall off.

We don't have an offense capable of scraping together a few runs when we need to despite all these grinders. We don't have a bullpen that can go out and shut down everyone on any given night, although I think we have a very solid foundation there and these guys just need more experience. Our starting pitching has been good this year, but we can't rely on just one area of the game. We need every aspect of our attack to at least be decent most of the time, and that just hasn't been the case over the last two seasons.

Patrick134
05-29-2007, 10:41 PM
The only way you sign Dye to a long term deal is if you move Thome. Dye is very quickly becoming a DH. His range in RF is bad moving laterally. He still goes back on the ball pretty good.


I don't know if i'd sign JD to a long term big money deal. While he's been healthy recently, he has a long history of trips to the dl, which figure to return with age. Also last year was a career year. To pay him based on those numbers would be crazy.

UserNameBlank
05-29-2007, 10:42 PM
The only way you sign Dye to a long term deal is if you move Thome. Dye is very quickly becoming a DH. His range in RF is bad moving laterally. He still goes back on the ball pretty good.
I agree on that and would rather have Dye as a DH over Thome. Injury issues aside, Dye could move to the OF in NL games without losing a bat and his ability to play the OF could allow other players to get a rest at DH yet still be in the lineup. I like Thome, but he's not going to be around too much longer.

Patrick134
05-29-2007, 10:43 PM
The annoying thing about this team is that rarely get everything right at the same time, going all the way back to the start of last year. Either the rotation, the bullpen, or the offense will perform well but another area will fall off.

We don't have an offense capable of scraping together a few runs when we need to despite all these grinders. We don't have a bullpen that can go out and shut down everyone on any given night, although I think we have a very solid foundation there and these guys just need more experience. Our starting pitching has been good this year, but we can't rely on just one area of the game. We need every aspect of our attack to at least be decent most of the time, and that just hasn't been the case over the last two seasons.


Very good points. The sox have proven (last year) that they have a potent offense. They've also proven ( this year) to have a quality rotation. The thing is to get them in sync.

southsideirish71
05-29-2007, 10:43 PM
Great point. Those teams have largley been on fire, while it feels like the sox have played horribly. It's due to turn around.

The only reason we are in this situation is because the offense decided to take spring off. If they had played even at a medicore level, we would of been at the top of the AL, and then we could of weathered this storm playing 500 baseball until we right the ship. When you stack a few teams in front of you, you start to dig a hole.

Its sad because I still see the same problems with the offense that we have had all year long. We are down by a bunch, we get the bases loaded, and walk in a run. The next hitter Konerko swings at the first pitch and kills the rally. Next year I want to see someone address our bat control. We have had some of the worst ABs with men on. We take home run cuts, expand the strikezone for the pitcher, and put the first or second pitch in play. When you get a man in scoring position, its supposed to be pressure on the pitcher not the other way around.

DrCrawdad
05-29-2007, 10:44 PM
Hearing the results on my way home tonight was painful enough. The only consolation was that I wasn't home to watch the game.

UserNameBlank
05-29-2007, 10:44 PM
I don't know if i'd sign JD to a long term big money deal. While he's been healthy recently, he has a long history of trips to the dl, which figure to return with age. Also last year was a career year. To pay him based on those numbers would be crazy.
Dye's biggest injury was the foul ball he hit off himself in Oakland. After fully coming back from that injury he hasn't had any serious problems.

I don't think Dye is going to put up 2006 numbers this year, obviously, and because of that his price should come down. This is one case where KW's approach of letting guys hit FA might actually benefit the Sox, as Dye would have been worth a ton after last year.

nedlug
05-29-2007, 10:49 PM
"I'm not dead yet."
"You will be soon."
"I think I'm getting better."

"I think I'll go for a walk..."

DickAllen72
05-29-2007, 10:50 PM
They all loved aj a few years back, and they'll all boo Toriiiiiiiii when he's a White Sox.
Fixed it. :tongue:

Parrothead
05-29-2007, 10:59 PM
Count me in as a.....

:darkclouds: :chickenlittle
right now this team blows with no signs of getting better.

kitekrazy
05-29-2007, 11:02 PM
Here is the problem with the unload everything crowd. What exactly has tangible talent that will bring you back more than the comp picks.


That's the Bill Wirtz method. It's really good for ruining a fan base.

Joe
05-29-2007, 11:24 PM
That's the Bill Wirtz method. It's really good for ruining a fan base.

Glad, we could bring the Hawks into a Sox discussion.:rolleyes:

Jurr
05-29-2007, 11:34 PM
Not too many posts after a bad loss. Looks like people are hardened to the b.s.

This team looks like a good one, just not a special one. Winning streaks are quickly followed by losing streaks. The players go from a relaxed, good groove to the helpless "here we go again" Sox. This happens way too damn quickly for my liking.

It's amazing how a ballclub can go from the toast of MLB to an average squad in such a short span, especially considering how little they have lost in talent.

BainesHOF
05-29-2007, 11:35 PM
I'd like to see them hang on to Dye, B
uehrle, and Iguchi unless someone makes an offer KW can't refuse.

Iguchi?! Iguchi should be the first to go. A slow middle infielder who doesn't hit for average or power, doesn't have much range and doesn't hustle on the bases is a major problem.

BainesHOF
05-29-2007, 11:37 PM
This team looks like a good one, just not a special one.

What exactly gives you that idea?

BainesHOF
05-29-2007, 11:37 PM
The only way you sign Dye to a long term deal is if you move Thome. Dye is very quickly becoming a DH.

You are correct, sir.

Jurr
05-29-2007, 11:41 PM
What exactly gives you that idea?
Well, I don't believe that they'll finish right at .500, which would put them at "average". They're a good team, one that is going to win probably 88-90 games. I really don't think they've got the mentality or pay enough attention to fundamental baseball to get to the playoffs, but they're a good, talented team. Just nothing special.

JB98
05-29-2007, 11:50 PM
Well, I don't believe that they'll finish right at .500, which would put them at "average". They're a good team, one that is going to win probably 88-90 games. I really don't think they've got the mentality or pay enough attention to fundamental baseball to get to the playoffs, but they're a good, talented team. Just nothing special.

It's 2003/2004 all over again. There are a lot of good individual players here, and they'll all have their moments. We'll win enough games to be competitive as we are currently structured, probably between 84 and 88 wins. But the energy level, enthusiasm and intensity are all noticeably down. The Twins are kicking our asses, rubbing our noses in it and enjoying every second of it. Thus far, our players have responded with a shrug. Torii Hunter is stealing third base in the eighth inning with a four-run lead, and there are no consequences. It's just like when Hunter ran Jamie Burke. Our team doesn't react, and Ozzie kisses the Twins' collective ass in the papers.

gobears1987
05-29-2007, 11:50 PM
Tonight sucked, but we don't need to pull a WFT now.

I just wrote a blog to clear my thoughts and came to the conclusion that we should wait until the AS Break before we consider selling anyone. I do believe we should get Vazquez or Prinz up here though. I wouldn't even mind trying out Floyd in the pen.

gobears1987
05-29-2007, 11:53 PM
That's the Bill Wirtz method. It's really good for ruining a fan base.It only ruins a fan base if you are a cheap SOB.

Jerry isn't cheap. Look at how expensive our payroll is compared to other teams. We can unload talent in July if we are out of it and use our savings on the FA market this offseason. Just look at the talent out there this offseason. I even saw Aaron Rowand :p on the list.

thomas35forever
05-29-2007, 11:58 PM
I wonder if God has forsaken our team, or maybe He just has trouble getting to them through the roof of the Humpdome.

UserNameBlank
05-30-2007, 12:04 AM
Iguchi?! Iguchi should be the first to go. A slow middle infielder who doesn't hit for average or power, doesn't have much range and doesn't hustle on the bases is a major problem.
He's 33 so I wouldn't want to give him a longterm deal, but I'd definitely offer a two year contract extension if it isn't that much, and I'd offer arbitration no matter what. Despite an awful start, his career line is still .273/.344/.418 as a second basemen. He's also been pretty clutch with the home run.

Besides, look at the market. Who is better than he is? Castillo doesn't have his power and has had injury issues. And I'm not ready to start Getz either. The grass isn't always greener, and if this team lets Tadahito go we'll certainly miss him.

Foulke You
05-30-2007, 12:55 AM
Not too many posts after a bad loss. Looks like people are hardened to the b.s.

This team looks like a good one, just not a special one. Winning streaks are quickly followed by losing streaks. The players go from a relaxed, good groove to the helpless "here we go again" Sox. This happens way too damn quickly for my liking.

It's amazing how a ballclub can go from the toast of MLB to an average squad in such a short span, especially considering how little they have lost in talent.
You're right and it really makes you appreciate what this team did in 2005. It was really something special. It's hard to get a good gauge on the 2007 club. I think a telling stat is that we've yet to sweep a team which tells you we haven't had any real hot streaks to speak of this season. However, we've won quite a few series this year so we're good enough to hover just over .500 but not good enough yet to pull away. Injuries have certainly played their part but even if Pods and Thome don't go down, we're still probably 1 impact hitter and a bullpen pitcher (or two) away from our AL Central rivals Detroit and Cleveland.

IowaSox1971
05-30-2007, 01:59 AM
I've never seen a local media and a fan base give up so quickly on a plus-.500 team's season. We're 5.5 games out in the toughest division in baseball, even though we've been plagued with injuries and we obviously have not even had anything remotely resembling a hot streak.

During the course of a 162-game season, every team, even the lousiest team, has at least a two- or three-week stretch where things somehow come together and basically everything works: pitching, fielding, hitting, lucky breaks, etc. Even the 1976 White Sox, who finished in last place, put together a 10-game winning streak. And the 1978 White Sox, who finished well below .500, won 17 out of 19 at one pont. But we have not gotten hot yet, and we're still in this thing.

We have not looked good the past two or three games, but I think it's far too early to write off the season. If we're 12 games out of a playoff spot in late July, then it might be time to give up. But not now.

DrCrawdad
05-30-2007, 02:03 AM
I've never seen a local media and a fan base give up so quickly on a plus-.500 team's season. We're 5.5 games out in the toughest division in baseball, even though we've been plagued with injuries and we obviously have not even had anything remotely resembling a hot streak.

During the course of a 162-game season, every team, even the lousiest team, has at least a two- or three-week stretch where things somehow come together and basically everything works: pitching, fielding, hitting, lucky breaks, etc. Even the 1976 White Sox, who finished in last place, put together a 10-game winning streak. And the 1978 White Sox, who finished well below .500, won 17 out of 19 at one pont. But we have not gotten hot yet, and we're still in this thing.

We have not looked good the past two or three games, but I think it's far too early to write off the season. If we're 12 games out of a playoff spot in late July, then it might be time to give up. But not now.

Thanks for the words of hope.

QCIASOXFAN
05-30-2007, 02:12 AM
It's 2003/2004 all over again. There are a lot of good individual players here, and they'll all have their moments. We'll win enough games to be competitive as we are currently structured, probably between 84 and 88 wins. But the energy level, enthusiasm and intensity are all noticeably down. The Twins are kicking our asses, rubbing our noses in it and enjoying every second of it. Thus far, our players have responded with a shrug. Torii Hunter is stealing third base in the eighth inning with a four-run lead, and there are no consequences. It's just like when Hunter ran Jamie Burke. Our team doesn't react, and Ozzie kisses the Twins' collective ass in the papers.
I totally agree with you JB. This team can show flashes of greatness winning two or three games making it look easy, then follow that up with a two or three game skid. The lack of enthusiasm and intensity have been down since mid-July of last year. I was at a bar tonight to watching the basketball game and had the Sox game put on a side tv for me to watch and when it was 6-1 Twins I knew it was over. I just got home and got on here having the smallest bit of hope that they would have came back but they didn't. It's the 02 thru 04 Sox all over again. I love the Sox, but if we don't go on a nice run in the next 2-3 weeks we are done.:(:

Frankfan4life
05-30-2007, 03:29 AM
SPEED KILLS!! Our team is too slow. With Pods out, we don't have a consistent base stealing threat. We're not giving the pitcher and catcher fits on the basepaths and only a few players are taking the extra base. We recently got three back-to-back hits in an inning (or was it three hits in one inning), whatever, we didn't score a run. Lack of team speed is a BIG problem and it needs to be addressed.

itsnotrequired
05-30-2007, 05:53 AM
Count me in as a.....

:darkclouds: :chickenlittle
right now this team blows with no signs of getting better.

Shocker.

IndianWhiteSox
05-30-2007, 05:56 AM
The only way you sign Dye to a long term deal is if you move Thome. Dye is very quickly becoming a DH. His range in RF is bad moving laterally. He still goes back on the ball pretty good.

I think that if Dye moved to LF or 1B, he'd still be fine as opposed to RF. But yes, I understand what you're saying.

Man, I just want the Sox to sign these guys:

RF Ichiro
CF Jones
LF Patterson

So then Dye could play 1B and then Thome and PK could be dealt without a problem. Not because I don't like them(I have both of their jerseys, the authentic ones as well), but at some point if you're KW or JR you have be prepared to move on.

Parrothead
05-30-2007, 06:57 AM
Shocker.

What are you trying to say? You really think this team as constructed can make it to the playoffs?

Thome25
05-30-2007, 07:15 AM
I agree on that and would rather have Dye as a DH over Thome. Injury issues aside, Dye could move to the OF in NL games without losing a bat and his ability to play the OF could allow other players to get a rest at DH yet still be in the lineup. I like Thome, but he's not going to be around too much longer.

The only way you sign Dye to a long term deal is if you move Thome. Dye is very quickly becoming a DH. His range in RF is bad moving laterally. He still goes back on the ball pretty good.

Dye at DH is a bad idea. That would turn us into an almost totally right handed hitting team. We need a couple of lefties in there as well.

As far as those posting that we might not get anything for guys like Crede and Dye.....I'd say get SOMETHING for them......that way they don't walk for NOTHING when free agency arrives.

Also, we wouldn't just be getting second or third tier prospects for them....we would be saving the $$$$ from their contracts to sign someone else. (Arod, Jones, Castillo, Ichiro anyone?)

Thome25
05-30-2007, 07:19 AM
Not too many posts after a bad loss. Looks like people are hardened to the b.s.

This team looks like a good one, just not a special one. Winning streaks are quickly followed by losing streaks. The players go from a relaxed, good groove to the helpless "here we go again" Sox. This happens way too damn quickly for my liking.

It's amazing how a ballclub can go from the toast of MLB to an average squad in such a short span, especially considering how little they have lost in talent.

I was thinking the same thing......It's unbelieveable how far we've fallen in such a short period of time.

itsnotrequired
05-30-2007, 07:27 AM
What are you trying to say? You really think this team as constructed can make it to the playoffs?

What are you trying to say? You're ready to throw in the towel on a team that is only 4 back in the loss column for the division lead at the end of May? A team that is only 5 back in the Wild Card? A team that is playing through injuries and bereavement lists? A team that coming into Sunday had won 4 of their last 5 in decisive fashion and 10 or 15 before that? A team that just faced two of the toughest lefties in the game? A team that has five regular starters hitting 40+ points below their career averages, all at the same time? The team average is second only to the 1968 team for lowest in the last 39 years. Out of all the crappy teams over that time span, do you honestly believe that the 2007 Sox are the worst, with this level of talent on the team?

It's amazing how a few losses in a row brings out the worst in people.

BeviBall!
05-30-2007, 07:34 AM
I mentioned in the game thread I haven't seen this team exert a killer instinct since the first time Detroit visited USCF last year. You could blame it on ring hangover last year, but my god, flush it out of your systems already!

There are a lot of big time players scuffling out of the gate... problem is we have about half of them in the same lineup. We're in the same position as last year, down a handful of games. As mentioned earlier, the Sox are not a comeback kind of team. When they win, they're in front all season. While it's way too early to abandon the 2007 season, it's hardly time to be patient. We can't afford to drop 8 games behind 2 teams.

Thome25
05-30-2007, 07:38 AM
What are you trying to say? You're ready to throw in the towel on a team that is only 4 back in the loss column for the division lead at the end of May? A team that is only 5 back in the Wild Card? A team that is playing through injuries and bereavement lists? A team that coming into Sunday had won 4 of their last 5 in decisive fashion and 10 or 15 before that? A team that just faced two of the toughest lefties in the game? A team that has five regular starters hitting 40+ points below their career averages, all at the same time? The team average is second only to the 1968 team for lowest in the last 39 years. Out of all the crappy teams over that time span, do you honestly believe that the 2007 Sox are the worst, with this level of talent on the team?

It's amazing how a few losses in a row brings out the worst in people.

Being full of sunshine and bubblegum isn't what Sox fans are all about. When our team sucks, we're the first ones to tell you.

Being eternally optimistic is for those hacks on the other side of town. Try not talking down to other people. A lot of us have been around long enough to realize when a season is starting to go awry.

You've got to look at the bigger picture. This team has been playing like this for almost a year and a half. It's more than just a few losses in a row......this has been going on since the beginning of '06.

This is essentially the same club as last season. We're playing like we have no heart and worst of all no chemistry. (when we hit we don't pitch and vice versa.)

It is what it is. For this team it MIGHT be time to look in the mirror and realize this just isn't it. I hope I'm wrong.

Thome25
05-30-2007, 07:41 AM
I've never seen a local media and a fan base give up so quickly on a plus-.500 team's season. We're 5.5 games out in the toughest division in baseball, even though we've been plagued with injuries and we obviously have not even had anything remotely resembling a hot streak.

During the course of a 162-game season, every team, even the lousiest team, has at least a two- or three-week stretch where things somehow come together and basically everything works: pitching, fielding, hitting, lucky breaks, etc. Even the 1976 White Sox, who finished in last place, put together a 10-game winning streak. And the 1978 White Sox, who finished well below .500, won 17 out of 19 at one pont. But we have not gotten hot yet, and we're still in this thing.

We have not looked good the past two or three games, but I think it's far too early to write off the season. If we're 12 games out of a playoff spot in late July, then it might be time to give up. But not now.

So quickly? this team has been playing like this since early '06. It's hard to believe that people have such a short (or selective) memory around here.

Jurr
05-30-2007, 07:42 AM
I've never seen a local media and a fan base give up so quickly on a plus-.500 team's season. We're 5.5 games out in the toughest division in baseball, even though we've been plagued with injuries and we obviously have not even had anything remotely resembling a hot streak.

During the course of a 162-game season, every team, even the lousiest team, has at least a two- or three-week stretch where things somehow come together and basically everything works: pitching, fielding, hitting, lucky breaks, etc. Even the 1976 White Sox, who finished in last place, put together a 10-game winning streak. And the 1978 White Sox, who finished well below .500, won 17 out of 19 at one pont. But we have not gotten hot yet, and we're still in this thing.

We have not looked good the past two or three games, but I think it's far too early to write off the season. If we're 12 games out of a playoff spot in late July, then it might be time to give up. But not now.
You're talking about old teams going on hot streaks. That's fine - I see what you're getting at. Every team is capable of getting hot. Well, I'll throw out a couple of old teams.

2001 White Sox, 2002 White Sox, 2003 White Sox, 2004 White Sox.

These teams had better talent than every other team in the division. They were doomed by their lack of offensive consistency (based on their refusal to cut down swings, move runners over, or start any sort of running game).
When the Minnesota Twins would play these talented Sox teams, they would nickel and dime our beloved Sox to death, especially late in the year, when the games really mattered. Our roster of power hitters would repeatedly swing out of their shoes, striking out or popping up any offspeed pitch thrown their way. We've seen this all before, and it sucks.

WSI was absolutely on fire coming into the 2005 season, because we saw a paradigm shift with our team's approach. I'll be damned if that squad didn't win it all. They even bragged about the big change in their highlight videos, lauding Ozzie and KW as geniuses for having the balls to overhaul the team in favor of a more fundamentally sound approach to baseball.

I'll be damned if this team hasn't fallen right back into the old ways of doing things. Ozzie has turned into Jerry ****ing Manuel with a little more of a mouth.

BeviBall!
05-30-2007, 07:48 AM
I'll be damned if this team hasn't fallen right back into the old ways of doing things. Ozzie has turned into Jerry ****ing Manuel with a little more of a mouth.

QFT! I'll give Ozzie a little more credit due to injuries, but he has a little mad scientist in him for sure.

The 2005 style of play is so far gone it might as well be the 1959 style of play.

itsnotrequired
05-30-2007, 08:03 AM
Being full of sunshine and bubblegum isn't what Sox fans are all about. When our team sucks, we're the first ones to tell you.

I didn't realize there was a rulebook governing what a Sox fan is.

:rolleyes:

Being eternally optimistic is for those hacks on the other side of town. Try not talking down to other people. Alot of us have been around long enough to realize when a season is starting to go awry.

Is there a reason not to be optimistic right now? Lots of freak things have happened this season: crummy weather at the start of the season, four games called due to rain/cold, Cintron on bearevement twice, Konerko has a death in the family, Uribe having to deal with his mom, Hall injury, Pods injury, Thome injury, Ozuna injury, Buehrle's missed start, etc. It isn't as if everything has been ideal and the Sox are just lounging around. Up until a couple weeks ago, the Sox had the toughest schedule out of all the teams in the AL Central (save Kansas city). Despite all these problems, the team is stil in the thick of it. No doubt there are holes in the team but I'm not ready to give up on them. And I'm not talking down to anyone, I'm trying to bring some sanity to the lunacy that overuns these boards after a couple crappy losses.

You've got to look at the bigger picture. This team has been playing like this for almost a year and a half. It's more than just a few losses in a row......this has been going on since the beginning of '06.

I am looking at the bigger picture. It's May, not September. I love how people think 2006 was some type of epic failure. Despite the dissapointment, that team still won 90 games, something that has only been done 5 times in the last 23 seasons. The Twins and Tigers were simply better. The Tigers won 95 games for the first time in 20 years. The Twins won 96, something they hadn't done in over 25 years. The Sox went 12-7 against the Tigers and 9-10 against the Twins. What can you do?

This is essentially the same club as last season. We're playing like we have no heart and worst of all no chemistry. (when we hit we don't pitch and vice versa.)

You say they are playing with no heart becuase you are only seeing what you want to see. The Sox have 13 wins where they either came from behind or a tie to win the game. That's over half their wins. How can you say they don't have any heart?

It is what it is. For this team it MIGHT be time to look in the mirror and realize this just isn't it. I hope I'm wrong.

Just isn't it? As in "This just isn't our year"? If any player looks in the mirror and says that, they should get tossed off the team. The Sox front office hasn't given up on the season, Ozzie hasn't given up and I'm assuming the players haven't either. It appears the only ones giving up are the media and lunatic "fans".

itsnotrequired
05-30-2007, 08:04 AM
I'll be damned if this team hasn't fallen right back into the old ways of doing things. Ozzie has turned into Jerry ****ing Manuel with a little more of a mouth.

I sure hope you're not talking about the lineups...

Thome25
05-30-2007, 08:05 AM
I didn't realize there was a rulebook governing what a Sox fan is.

:rolleyes:



Is there a reason not to be optimistic right now? Lots of freak things have happened this season: crummy weather at the start of the season, four games called due to rain/cold, Cintron on bearevement twice, Konerko has a death in the family, Uribe having to deal with his mom, Hall injury, Pods injury, Thome injury, Ozuna injury, Buehrle's missed start, etc. It isn't as if everything has been ideal and the Sox are just lounging around. Up until a couple weeks ago, the Sox had the toughest schedule out of all the teams in the AL Central (save Kansas city). Despite all these problems, the team is stil in the thick of it. No doubt there are holes in the team but I'm not ready to give up on them. And I'm not talking down to anyone, I'm trying to bring some sanity to the lunacy that overuns these boards after a couple crappy losses.



I am looking at the bigger picture. It's May, not September. I love how people think 2006 was some type of epic failure. Despite the dissapointment, that team still won 90 games, something that has only been done 5 times in the last 23 seasons. The Twins and Tigers were simply better. The Tigers won 95 games for the first time in 20 years. The Twins won 96, something they hadn't done in over 25 years. The Sox went 12-7 against the Tigers and 9-10 against the Twins. What can you do?



You say they are playing with no heart becuase you are only seeing what you want to see. The Sox have 13 wins where they either came from behind or a tie to win the game. That's over half their wins. How can you say they don't have any heart?



Just isn't it? As in "This just isn't our year"? If any player looks in the mirror and says that, they should get tossed off the team. The Sox front office hasn't given up on the season, Ozzie hasn't given up and I'm assuming the players haven't either. It appears the only ones giving up are the media and lunatic "fans".

I won't get into a flame-war with you. I said what I had to say.....read into it how you want. I won't give up on my Sox ever. But, that'll never stop me (and a lot of other fans) from being realists.

Also, NEVER question someone's fandom on here by putting it in quotations.

nsolo
05-30-2007, 08:15 AM
You're talking about old teams going on hot streaks. That's fine - I see what you're getting at. Every team is capable of getting hot. Well, I'll throw out a couple of old teams.

2001 White Sox, 2002 White Sox, 2003 White Sox, 2004 White Sox.

These teams had better talent than every other team in the division. They were doomed by their lack of offensive consistency (based on their refusal to cut down swings, move runners over, or start any sort of running game).
When the Minnesota Twins would play these talented Sox teams, they would nickel and dime our beloved Sox to death, especially late in the year, when the games really mattered. Our roster of power hitters would repeatedly swing out of their shoes, striking out or popping up any offspeed pitch thrown their way. We've seen this all before, and it sucks.

WSI was absolutely on fire coming into the 2005 season, because we saw a paradigm shift with our team's approach. I'll be damned if that squad didn't win it all. They even bragged about the big change in their highlight videos, lauding Ozzie and KW as geniuses for having the balls to overhaul the team in favor of a more fundamentally sound approach to baseball.

I'll be damned if this team hasn't fallen right back into the old ways of doing things. Ozzie has turned into Jerry ****ing Manuel with a little more of a mouth.

THANK YOU! Everything I wanted to say is stated in the above quote. This team is being sold as a gang of grinders, which couldn't be further from the truth. There's no situational hitting, station to station baserunning, and non-aggressive pitching from the bullpen.

Our ability to manufacture runs is an illusion. Sure, Pods is out, but his contribution to the team in the past year or so has been limited at best. As a leadoff hitter, you're only guaranteed one leadoff at bat per game, so its always been my perception that the leadoff spot is somewhat overrated. Speed on the base means more when you are on base. That requires you to be in uniform and ready to play. I love Scotty for that walk-off HR in the WS, but his ability to be a reliable contribution to the team seems to be fading. Bottom line, in addition to our power, we need more speed to manufacture runs when the big bats start to slumber.

Also, it is obvious that Ozzie was the answer in '05, but do you think his act is beginning to wear thin? I do think he's been managing too much with his emotions rather than with statistics.

UserNameBlank
05-30-2007, 08:15 AM
I didn't realize there was a rulebook governing what a Sox fan is.

:rolleyes:



Is there a reason not to be optimistic right now? Lots of freak things have happened this season: crummy weather at the start of the season, four games called due to rain/cold, Cintron on bearevement twice, Konerko has a death in the family, Uribe having to deal with his mom, Hall injury, Pods injury, Thome injury, Ozuna injury, Buehrle's missed start, etc. It isn't as if everything has been ideal and the Sox are just lounging around. Up until a couple weeks ago, the Sox had the toughest schedule out of all the teams in the AL Central (save Kansas city). Despite all these problems, the team is stil in the thick of it. No doubt there are holes in the team but I'm not ready to give up on them. And I'm not talking down to anyone, I'm trying to bring some sanity to the lunacy that overuns these boards after a couple crappy losses.



I am looking at the bigger picture. It's May, not September. I love how people think 2006 was some type of epic failure. Despite the dissapointment, that team still won 90 games, something that has only been done 5 times in the last 23 seasons. The Twins and Tigers were simply better. The Tigers won 95 games for the first time in 20 years. The Twins won 96, something they hadn't done in over 25 years. The Sox went 12-7 against the Tigers and 9-10 against the Twins. What can you do?



You say they are playing with no heart becuase you are only seeing what you want to see. The Sox have 13 wins where they either came from behind or a tie to win the game. That's over half their wins. How can you say they don't have any heart?



Just isn't it? As in "This just isn't our year"? If any player looks in the mirror and says that, they should get tossed off the team. The Sox front office hasn't given up on the season, Ozzie hasn't given up and I'm assuming the players haven't either. It appears the only ones giving up are the media and lunatic "fans".

I hate to say it because I normally like your posts, but you're really putting a strong Ken Harrelson-like spin on the whole thing.

Injuries and multiple family issues still unresolved and terrible hitting and cold weather and bad scheduling and no speed and an up and down bullpen and... you're optimistic???

I'm sick of all the BS and excuses for why we haven't played playoff caliber baseball since the end of the '05 championship season. I'm sick of hearing about how the team just needs to "click on all cyllinders" or "hit it's stride" or "catch fire." I'm sick of waiting for all that to happen. You know, I sit there watching the Sox game waiting for that happy little rainbow of optimism to pop out of the dark clouds, but then someone fails to score a runner from second with no one out in a one-run game. Then a 2-out walk with no one on, a basehit, and a three run jack to put the Sox out of the game.

There is a time when you have to look at what you have, what you don't have, and what you need to have. This team needs to dump some of what they have and find some way to get what they need. I don't give a flippin' freakin' ****, sink this ***** like the Titanic if you have to. Or go out and patch a few of the major leaks. Do something. This team is an insult to Sox fans and especially to the super mega ninja genious who created it.

downstairs
05-30-2007, 08:17 AM
During the course of a 162-game season, every team, even the lousiest team, has at least a two- or three-week stretch where things somehow come together and basically everything works: pitching, fielding, hitting, lucky breaks, etc. Even the 1976 White Sox, who finished in last place, put together a 10-game winning streak. And the 1978 White Sox, who finished well below .500, won 17 out of 19 at one pont. But we have not gotten hot yet, and we're still in this thing.

You're sort of disproving your own point here. You're basically saying (and you're right) that a 10 game winning streak (or something close to) is meaningless. A bad team eventually reverts back to being a bad team for the other 151 games.

So are we a bad team? The numbers seem to say so. I actually think we're overachieving relative to our numbers.

The team *feels* like and *looks* like a last place team right now. When they do eek out wins, the best feeling I get is a ".500" team. I have yet to see any signs- not even minute- of this team being a playoff team.

Cleveland is hot. The division is going to be lost pretty soon at this rate. Then you have the wild card. You're thinking DET, NYY, LAA, OAK, SEA are *all* going to stink it up worse than us?

itsnotrequired
05-30-2007, 08:20 AM
Also, NEVER question someone's fandom on here by putting it in quotations.

You questioned mine in the first place.

UserNameBlank
05-30-2007, 08:24 AM
You're sort of disproving your own point here. You're basically saying (and you're right) that a 10 game winning streak (or something close to) is meaningless. A bad team eventually reverts back to being a bad team for the other 151 games.

So are we a bad team? The numbers seem to say so. I actually think we're overachieving relative to our numbers.

The team *feels* like and *looks* like a last place team right now. When they do eek out wins, the best feeling I get is a ".500" team. I have yet to see any signs- not even minute- of this team being a playoff team.

Cleveland is hot. The division is going to be lost pretty soon at this rate. Then you have the wild card. You're thinking DET, NYY, LAA, OAK, SEA are *all* going to stink it up worse than us?
I agree 100%. I want a team that looks like a playoff team, that plays playoff baseball during the regular season. That isn't always relying on tremendous pitching and squeezing out a win by a run or two, that is all areas of the game picking each other up when one area fails. If we have a bad start out of our rotation or someone out of our pen has a rough outing, we need the offense to have a chance. When the offense is bad and can't score, the pitching needs to step up. The defense has to be there 24/7. This team since the beginning of 2006 has been seemingly always hot in one area, but no more than one area at a time.

We need to look like the team to beat. Counting on other teams to win the division for you is for the National League. Our division is too damn good for that.

Thome25
05-30-2007, 08:25 AM
You questioned mine in the first place.

My post wasn't ment to question your fandom.....I apologize if you felt that way.

It was meant to compare a Sox fan's psyche to other fans who shall remain nameless.

Chips
05-30-2007, 08:25 AM
I didn't realize there was a rulebook governing what a Sox fan is.

:rolleyes:



Is there a reason not to be optimistic right now? Lots of freak things have happened this season: crummy weather at the start of the season, four games called due to rain/cold, Cintron on bearevement twice, Konerko has a death in the family, Uribe having to deal with his mom, Hall injury, Pods injury, Thome injury, Ozuna injury, Buehrle's missed start, etc. It isn't as if everything has been ideal and the Sox are just lounging around. Up until a couple weeks ago, the Sox had the toughest schedule out of all the teams in the AL Central (save Kansas city). Despite all these problems, the team is stil in the thick of it. No doubt there are holes in the team but I'm not ready to give up on them. And I'm not talking down to anyone, I'm trying to bring some sanity to the lunacy that overuns these boards after a couple crappy losses.



I am looking at the bigger picture. It's May, not September. I love how people think 2006 was some type of epic failure. Despite the dissapointment, that team still won 90 games, something that has only been done 5 times in the last 23 seasons. The Twins and Tigers were simply better. The Tigers won 95 games for the first time in 20 years. The Twins won 96, something they hadn't done in over 25 years. The Sox went 12-7 against the Tigers and 9-10 against the Twins. What can you do?



You say they are playing with no heart becuase you are only seeing what you want to see. The Sox have 13 wins where they either came from behind or a tie to win the game. That's over half their wins. How can you say they don't have any heart?



Just isn't it? As in "This just isn't our year"? If any player looks in the mirror and says that, they should get tossed off the team. The Sox front office hasn't given up on the season, Ozzie hasn't given up and I'm assuming the players haven't either. It appears the only ones giving up are the media and lunatic "fans".

Post of the year.

itsnotrequired
05-30-2007, 08:27 AM
I hate to say it because I normally like your posts, but you're really putting a strong Ken Harrelson-like spin on the whole thing.

Injuries and multiple family issues still unresolved and terrible hitting and cold weather and bad scheduling and no speed and an up and down bullpen and... you're optimistic???

I'm sick of all the BS and excuses for why we haven't played playoff caliber baseball since the end of the '05 championship season. I'm sick of hearing about how the team just needs to "click on all cyllinders" or "hit it's stride" or "catch fire." I'm sick of waiting for all that to happen. You know, I sit there watching the Sox game waiting for that happy little rainbow of optimism to pop out of the dark clouds, but then someone fails to score a runner from second with no one out in a one-run game. Then a 2-out walk with no one on, a basehit, and a three run jack to put the Sox out of the game.

There is a time when you have to look at what you have, what you don't have, and what you need to have. This team needs to dump some of what they have and find some way to get what they need. I don't give a flippin' freakin' ****, sink this ***** like the Titanic if you have to. Or go out and patch a few of the major leaks. Do something. This team is an insult to Sox fans and especially to the super mega ninja genious who created it.

No doubt the team has struggled and no doubt they could improve. They are better than this. Their record is absolutely better than one would think, based on the stats and watching them play. My feeling is that they are just a couple clicks away from being contendors. Maybe not the type of team I like to see (i.e. no speed) but I believe the pitching is there to make them contendors. They have gotten "lucky" so far and managed to stay in the race. Time for them to turn it on. If the bats keep swinging like they are, this will go down as one of the worst hitting Sox team in the last 80 years. I can't bring myself to believe the offense is that bad, with the caliber of hitters in this lineup.

I'm still optimistic. The clutch hitting in the last Oakland series gives me hope. If the Sox win today, they will be .500 on the season in the Dome. I'll take it...

itsnotrequired
05-30-2007, 08:29 AM
My post wasn't ment to question your fandom.....I apologize if you felt that way.

It was meant to compare a Sox fan's psyche to other fans who shall remain nameless.

And my quotations were not directed toward you but rather the posters who only show up when the Sox lose to rant about how terrible the team is.

Hitmen77
05-30-2007, 08:35 AM
You've got to look at the bigger picture. This team has been playing like this for almost a year and a half. It's more than just a few losses in a row......this has been going on since the beginning of '06.


I didn't realize that July 2006 was a year and a half ago. On July 9 last year, the Sox were 57-31. But, hey, if July through now isn't long enough and you feel the need to embellish the Sox struggles, then more power to you.

UserNameBlank
05-30-2007, 08:36 AM
I am looking at the bigger picture. It's May, not September. I love how people think 2006 was some type of epic failure. Despite the dissapointment, that team still won 90 games, something that has only been done 5 times in the last 23 seasons. The Twins and Tigers were simply better. The Tigers won 95 games for the first time in 20 years. The Twins won 96, something they hadn't done in over 25 years. The Sox went 12-7 against the Tigers and 9-10 against the Twins. What can you do?
Forgot to comment on this before.

The way we played late in the year would be what I would call an epic failure. We had chance after chance after chance to shoot out ahead in the division and keep it, but we didn't. The Tigers and Minny were playing bad baseball and losing, and we were playing even worse baseball and losing.

Now people can talk all they want about the Tigers and Twins being the better teams but Minny was eliminated in the first round of the playoffs, and Detroit lost to the worst World Series Championship team I've ever seen in the '06 "I really don't deserve to be here" Cardinals. The Sox meanwhile were a veteran team in a defending championship season and had made significant upgrades to the starting rotation, everyday lineup, and the bench while still bringing back the core.

Bottom line, forget giving credit where it's due. The Sox should have won that division or at least made the playoffs. Yeah they won 90, where's our consolation prize? They should have won 100+. The lesser talented team the year before won 99.

UserNameBlank
05-30-2007, 08:41 AM
And my quotations were not directed toward you but rather the posters who only show up when the Sox lose to rant about how terrible the team is.
That's me most of the time, but I post in other areas as well.

itsnotrequired
05-30-2007, 08:44 AM
The way we played late in the year would be what I would call an epic failure. We had chance after chance after chance to shoot out ahead in the division and keep it, but we didn't. The Tigers and Minny were playing bad baseball and losing, and we were playing even worse baseball and losing.

That statement is true for the Tigers but they had such an insane lead that it almost didn't matter (10 game lead on August 7th). Minnesota played very well in September. They went 18-11 that month, their third best month of the season. They had a winning record in August as well.

Hitmen77
05-30-2007, 08:46 AM
I've never seen a local media and a fan base give up so quickly on a plus-.500 team's season. We're 5.5 games out in the toughest division in baseball, even though we've been plagued with injuries and we obviously have not even had anything remotely resembling a hot streak.

During the course of a 162-game season, every team, even the lousiest team, has at least a two- or three-week stretch where things somehow come together and basically everything works: pitching, fielding, hitting, lucky breaks, etc. Even the 1976 White Sox, who finished in last place, put together a 10-game winning streak. And the 1978 White Sox, who finished well below .500, won 17 out of 19 at one pont. But we have not gotten hot yet, and we're still in this thing.

We have not looked good the past two or three games, but I think it's far too early to write off the season. If we're 12 games out of a playoff spot in late July, then it might be time to give up. But not now.

:thumbsup:

Yes, we're all angry at the Sox lackluster play - but I can't believe how many fans are just giving up on this season. I'm certainly not looking at the MLB standings and thinking that any of the other teams that are 5 games out and struggling right now are "finished" and talking about a fire sale.

Thome25
05-30-2007, 08:47 AM
I didn't realize that July 2006 was a year and a half ago. On July 9 last year, the Sox were 57-31. But, hey, if July through now isn't long enough and you feel the need to embellish the Sox struggles, then more power to you.

I was talking about their style of play which is a TERRIBLE bullpen and the mentality where they get hot in only one area at a time (i.e. when they hit they don't pitch and when they pitch they don't hit.)

The '06 team had a winning record IN SPITE OF the same glaring weaknesses this team has.

UserNameBlank
05-30-2007, 08:51 AM
That statement is true for the Tigers but they had such an insane lead that it almost didn't matter (10 game lead on August 7th). Minnesota played very well in September. They went 18-11 that month, their third best month of the season. They had a winning record in August as well.
That's my point though (about the Tigs anyway). We finished what, 4 games back from Detroit? And how many games did we tank? We tanked that series in Oakland where we could have gained serious ground, tanked in TB, tanked everywhere it seemed. The Twins did this to us in 2003; when we stopped playing playoff level baseball they ran right past us. The Sox could have and should have done that. With our healthy veteran team, we were the only team in that division that was really capable of making a fantastic run without playing well over our heads like the Twins.

The one thing I agree with Hawk about last year is it seemed like during every loss he'd say something about the team beating itself. I can't remember how many times that happened last year. That team was so damn good, so talented, and man did it suck the big hard one.

Law11
05-30-2007, 08:53 AM
People are just so upset its understandable.. The season is far from done and yep we look like garbage right now but with some breaks we'll get it going.

That being said if the BP doesnt get it going soon we wont be competing for anything and thats hardly stating a huge newsflash..

Winning 90-95 games for this team will not be happening if we have another month from the bullpen like weve had in May.

downstairs
05-30-2007, 08:54 AM
:thumbsup:

Yes, we're all angry at the Sox lackluster play - but I can't believe how many fans are just giving up on this season. I'm certainly not looking at the MLB standings and thinking that any of the other teams that are 5 games out and struggling right now are "finished" and talking about a fire sale.

Teams that are near 5.5 games out or near .500 that are out of it and should either have a fire sale or are merely "rebuilding" anyway:

Pittsburgh
Chicago Cubs
Colorado
San Francisco
Minnesota
Philadelphia
Baltimore

Do the Sox fit in this list? I don't know. I'm beginning to think so.

Thome25
05-30-2007, 08:56 AM
:thumbsup:

Yes, we're all angry at the Sox lackluster play - but I can't believe how many fans are just giving up on this season. I'm certainly not looking at the MLB standings and thinking that any of the other teams that are 5 games out and struggling right now are "finished" and talking about a fire sale.

ALL of us want the team to win. And IMO the majority of us will continue to watch and root for this team until they're mathmatically eliminated. (I hope that doesn't happen.)

But, we're smart enough to know when this team is in SERIOUS trouble. There appears to be no end in sight to some of our troubles.

Are some of our players suddenly going to be un-injured? Will they come back soon enough? Where will we be in the standings when our hitters and bullpen suddenly decide to wake up? Will we be too far back when the injured players do come back?

Is the reason our hitters aren't hitting because of nagging injuries? (Paulie and Iguchi?)

That's A LOT of question marks that even our beloved Sox will have a hard time overcoming. Heck, MOST teams would have a hard time overcoming these types of struggles.

credefan24
05-30-2007, 09:18 AM
Baseball is played over a very long season, there are lots of ups and downs. The pen was good in April, pretty rough in May. Maybe they can turn it around in June?
As for the hitting, I think the lack of speed is one of the biggest, if not the biggest problem. As the knowledgable poster said before me, will these players suddenly become un-injured? Most likely not. But the mark of a good team is that they find a way to win.
Are the Sox that team? Half the fun of a major league season is finding out.

infohawk
05-30-2007, 09:26 AM
WSI was absolutely on fire coming into the 2005 season, because we saw a paradigm shift with our team's approach. I'll be damned if that squad didn't win it all. They even bragged about the big change in their highlight videos, lauding Ozzie and KW as geniuses for having the balls to overhaul the team in favor of a more fundamentally sound approach to baseball.

I'll be damned if this team hasn't fallen right back into the old ways of doing things.
Amen!

jenn2080
05-30-2007, 09:58 AM
No doubt the team has struggled and no doubt they could improve. They are better than this. Their record is absolutely better than one would think, based on the stats and watching them play. My feeling is that they are just a couple clicks away from being contendors. Maybe not the type of team I like to see (i.e. no speed) but I believe the pitching is there to make them contendors. They have gotten "lucky" so far and managed to stay in the race. Time for them to turn it on. If the bats keep swinging like they are, this will go down as one of the worst hitting Sox team in the last 80 years. I can't bring myself to believe the offense is that bad, with the caliber of hitters in this lineup.

I'm still optimistic. The clutch hitting in the last Oakland series gives me hope. If the Sox win today, they will be .500 on the season in the Dome. I'll take it...

Didn't everyone say this the better half of last year too? I don't see them being anywhere but 3rd place all year. If they end up better I will for sure eat my words and then some.

Hitmen77
05-30-2007, 10:11 AM
Teams that are near 5.5 games out or near .500 that are out of it and should either have a fire sale or are merely "rebuilding" anyway:

Pittsburgh
Chicago Cubs
Colorado
San Francisco
Minnesota
Philadelphia
Baltimore

Do the Sox fit in this list? I don't know. I'm beginning to think so.

So, you think Minnesota is out of it and should have a fire sale? :?: I disagree. I don't think any of those teams should have a "fire sale" at this point. In fact, why should fans of any of those teams give up on May 30 if their team is only 5 out?

Hitmen77
05-30-2007, 10:24 AM
ALL of us want the team to win. And IMO the majority of us will continue to watch and root for this team until they're mathmatically eliminated. (I hope that doesn't happen.)

But, we're smart enough to know when this team is in SERIOUS trouble. There appears to be no end in sight to some of our troubles.

Are some of our players suddenly going to be un-injured? Will they come back soon enough? Where will we be in the standings when our hitters and bullpen suddenly decide to wake up? Will we be too far back when the injured players do come back?

Is the reason our hitters aren't hitting because of nagging injuries? (Paulie and Iguchi?)

That's ALOT of questionmarks that even our beloved Sox will have a hard time overcoming. Heck, MOST teams would have a hard time overcoming these types of struggles.

I sure hope the players have a lot more intestinal fortitude than you do. If they share your attitude of packing it in because they are struggling in May - then yes I wholeheartedly agree that the season is totally lost.

And who are we waiting to become "un-injured"? It's just Pods and Pablo right? Am I missing anyone, because you make it sound like we have a whole slew of players who are irrevocably injured for the long haul. We're certainly missing Pods and Pablo's speed and it will certainly make it tougher for us to succeed, but I'm not giving up on the entire season because of those two guys.

Baseball is played over a very long season, there are lots of ups and downs. The pen was good in April, pretty rough in May. Maybe they can turn it around in June?
As for the hitting, I think the lack of speed is one of the biggest, if not the biggest problem. As the knowledgable poster said before me, will these players suddenly become un-injured? Most likely not. But the mark of a good team is that they find a way to win.
Are the Sox that team? Half the fun of a major league season is finding out.

Nope. If we're not going wire-to-wire and we're not playing like '05, then there's no point in letting the season play out. This team has problems right now and we're all very justifiably frustrated and angry - so let's just give up on the season right now. We're an insurmountable 4 games out of a playoff spot in May.

itsnotrequired
05-30-2007, 10:26 AM
Didn't everyone say this the better half of last year too? I don't see them being anywhere but 3rd place all year. If they end up better I will for sure eat my words and then some.

Key statement. No one was freaking out in May (largely because the Sox were only 1.5 back at the end of the month) and those that want to jump off the ship this early are jumping the gun.

credefan24
05-30-2007, 10:33 AM
Does anyone really consider this team "out of it" on May 30? I sure don't. But of course we are upset at their play as of late.

There's alot more baseball left, lets hope they can bust out of this funk.

The Immigrant
05-30-2007, 10:37 AM
Key statement. No one was freaking out in May (largely because the Sox were only 1.5 back at the end of the month) and those that want to jump off the ship this early are jumping the gun.

The key difference is that last May the Sox had the second best record in all of baseball and were playing significantly better than the current version.

I'm not ready to jump ship just yet, but I am terribly disappointed by this team's lackluster play and the appearance of simply going through the motions at times. It is also hard to be optimistic when we face a brutal second half schedule, with virtually no off days, and have a history of underperforming after the ASB.

itsnotrequired
05-30-2007, 10:44 AM
The key difference is that last May the Sox had the second best record in all of baseball and were playing significantly better than the current version.

I'm not ready to jump ship just yet, but I am terribly disappointed by this team's lackluster play and the appearance of simply going through the motions at times. It is also hard to be optimistic when we face a brutal second half schedule, with virtually no off days, and have a history of underperforming after the ASB.

The other difference is that the Tigers are 5 games behind their pace from last season. I went into this season feeling that the Sox, Indians, Tigers and Twins would wail on each other all season. So far, the Indians have owned everyone with a 13-4 record against the Central. The Sox are right on the middle at 11-11 while the Twins are at 9-14. I look for the Twins to pick it up while Cleveland will drop back to earth.

Jurr
05-30-2007, 12:46 PM
Normally, the members of this message board start getting very general in their displeasure with the team during losing streaks. Doom and gloom everywhere. I'm not of that ilk, and have never been. However, I am deeply concerned based on what I've seen for two months of the season. This team scares the crap out of me because of its eerie familiarity with the inconsistent squads of the post division title-pre world series Sox.

Those teams were undoubtedly the most frustrating teams I can remember due to their abundance of talent yet lack of focus, belief, and attention to detail. This team is falling right in line with those squads, and I haven't seen much of anything to change my opinion. Believe me, I want this team to light the world on fire as much as anyone else does, and it pisses me off that the fans are showing up, Jerry has opened up his pocket book, and still the result is mediocre.

WhiteSox5187
05-30-2007, 12:47 PM
It's not over by any means, but this team has to start picking up the pieces and playing better and they have to start doing that TODAY. Beating Minnesota and taking three out of four from Toronto is just what the doctor ordered. the Bats are there (they weren't last night, obviously) now the bullpen needs to step it up. But this team isn't showing me much, I feel like I'm watchign the 2002 team again.

FielderJones
05-30-2007, 01:01 PM
Does anyone really consider this team "out of it" on May 30?


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