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View Full Version : It's Going To Take At Least 95 Wins To Get To The Playoffs In 07.


Thome25
05-28-2007, 01:28 AM
With the Indians and Tigers ahead of us in the division, IMO it's going to take at least 95 wins to get us to the playoffs. The wildcard is likely coming out of the AL central.

With the problems we're having with injuries, offense, team speed, and the bullpen currently imploding do you think this team has what it takes to go 71-46 the rest of the way?

We'd have to play over .600 ball for the remainder of the season. I'm as die hard as they come and I'll NEVER count my Sox out, but in IMO something drastic has to happen for them to play at that clip the rest of the season.

ewokpelts
05-28-2007, 01:33 AM
It took 95 last year. But the 2007 ligers and jndians are NOT invinceble. Nor are the 2007 Twinkies dead in the water. We just need to beat the central division A LOT. And that INCLUDES the Royals.

ilsox7
05-28-2007, 01:33 AM
With the Indians and Tigers ahead of us in the division, IMO it's going to take at least 95 wins to get us to the playoffs. The wildcard is likely coming out of the AL central.

With the problems we're having with injuries, offense, team speed, and the bullpen currently imploding do you think this team has what it takes to go 71-46 the rest of the way?

We'd have to play over .600 ball for the remainder of the season. I'm as die hard as they come and I'll NEVER count my Sox out, but in IMO something drastic has to happen for them to play at that clip the rest of the season.

Since the Sox snapped their 5 game losing streak earlier this month, they have gone 12-7. Over 117 games, that equates to 74 wins.

WhiteSox5187
05-28-2007, 01:34 AM
Can I think the Sox come back from being down, what, 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 with what? Four months left? Yes, I think they can. Whether or not they will, I don't know. See, I think that sooner or later Cleveland's bullpen is going to start showing it's age and last year the Tigers pitching staff racked up more innings than ever before. I've said it once and I'll say it again, it all comes down to pitching. If the starting rotation keeps pitching like it is right now and the bullpen doesn't implode, then yes, we will be in the playoffs.

sox1970
05-28-2007, 07:52 AM
The Sox need to get hot now. From here to the AS Break, they need to get to about 50-52 wins. Then they have to get to 80 wins by August 30. Their schedule the last 28 games of the season is just too tough to expect anything much above .500. Hopefully 94-95 wins will get them in the playoffs.

NoNeckEra
05-28-2007, 12:41 PM
Dare I invoke the term "wild card" on May 28th? If the Sox catch Cleveland or Detroit, they'd be in great shape unless the Yankees catch fire.

Madscout
05-28-2007, 12:53 PM
By my calculations, we gotta play .607 ball from here on out.

Check
71 wins more to 95
117 more games

hose
05-28-2007, 04:36 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see a white flag by the end of June based on past actions.

gobears1987
05-28-2007, 04:39 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see a white flag by the end of June based on past actions.
It might even be a good thing too. We have the young pitching talent. If we could get better prospects for some trades we will be set. I just don't want to lose Buehrle.

hose
05-28-2007, 04:51 PM
It might even be a good thing too. We have the young pitching talent. If we could get better prospects for some trades we will be set. I just don't want to lose Buehrle.

KW has to get some of the youngsters down on the farm to come through at the big league level.

Other teams like Oakland and the Twins develop great talent, it's time for the Sox to do it.

downstairs
05-28-2007, 05:17 PM
It might even be a good thing too. We have the young pitching talent. If we could get better prospects for some trades we will be set. I just don't want to lose Buehrle.

Why not just blow it up now and build the 2008 World Champs?

I'm sensing the same pre-2005 gig where we remain a .500 - 2nd place team forever.

We have a team that is the skeleton for a World Champ. This team is not making the playoffs, and you can't rebuild this much during the season.

This team is a .500 team. No two ways about it. If they don't blow this team up now, I can practically guarantee near 81 wins.

kevingrt
05-28-2007, 05:28 PM
I can't say I have any confidence at all with the current 25-man squad.

102605
05-28-2007, 05:52 PM
Why isn't NO an option?

gobears1987
05-28-2007, 05:55 PM
Why not just blow it up now and build the 2008 World Champs?

I'm sensing the same pre-2005 gig where we remain a .500 - 2nd place team forever.

We have a team that is the skeleton for a World Champ. This team is not making the playoffs, and you can't rebuild this much during the season.

This team is a .500 team. No two ways about it. If they don't blow this team up now, I can practically guarantee near 81 wins.We're more likely looking at 2009 unless JR gives Kenny the green light to spend a lot this offseason. Otherwise, I'll agree with you.

Just a clarification on the above. I'm not saying JR is cheap. I'm just saying that he will have to spend way too much to make it 2008.

Thome25
05-28-2007, 06:10 PM
Why isn't NO an option?

"I'm not so sure" might as well be the same thing as NO.

chisoxmike
05-28-2007, 06:11 PM
I hate to say it, but this team is too inconsistant. They have played .500 ball all year and it doesn't look like its going to stop.

I'm not saying have a fire sale becuase I think they will be 3-6 out all year long. To me, if they can stay about .500 and be within striking distance, July is the make or break month... 4 with the Twins, 3 with the Indians, and 5 with the Tigers. Its right there.

viagracat
05-28-2007, 07:04 PM
Why isn't NO an option?

Because this is a White Sox fan forum. It's considered bad form even among casual fans to write off the season in May. It's even more of a sin here, and rightfully so.

Having said that, I will also say the team has to do a number of things a lot better to get there. In spring training I thought the starting pitching was going to be the problem, but that has been the one area that has been OK so far this season. You just never know, I guess.

So hang in there and hope for the best. It's a long season.

MRM
05-28-2007, 09:05 PM
With the Indians and Tigers ahead of us in the division, IMO it's going to take at least 95 wins to get us to the playoffs. The wildcard is likely coming out of the AL central.

With the problems we're having with injuries, offense, team speed, and the bullpen currently imploding do you think this team has what it takes to go 71-46 the rest of the way?

We'd have to play over .600 ball for the remainder of the season. I'm as die hard as they come and I'll NEVER count my Sox out, but in IMO something drastic has to happen for them to play at that clip the rest of the season.

Won't take 95 wins to get the wild card. The Injuns bullpen IS going to implode at some point and Detroit, while stable, isn't "great". 95 will win the division. 92 will snag the wildcard. Maybe 90 the way the Yankees are playing.

gobears1987
05-28-2007, 09:22 PM
I don't think we can write the season off on May 28th. I certainly think Kenny should start making calls with other GMs just to see what the market is for either buying or selling. When we hit mid to late June, we will have a better idea of what we can do.

If we become sellers, I won't be too upset. I think that we can probably fleece some good talent from desperate teams. If we are buyers, then I'll be excited about the prospects of a nice run to the finish.

I would also like to point out that if we decide to be sellers, we can wait until around the break for our trades.

There, that's about the most rational thought I can put down on this forum.

MRM
05-28-2007, 11:41 PM
I don't think we can write the season off on May 28th. I certainly think Kenny should start making calls with other GMs just to see what the market is for either buying or selling. When we hit mid to late June, we will have a better idea of what we can do.

If we become sellers, I won't be too upset. I think that we can probably fleece some good talent from desperate teams. If we are buyers, then I'll be excited about the prospects of a nice run to the finish.

I would also like to point out that if we decide to be sellers, we can wait until around the break for our trades.

There, that's about the most rational thought I can put down on this forum.

Who are you gonna sell? MB?

gobears1987
05-29-2007, 12:44 AM
Who are you gonna sell? MB?
That's up to Kenny to decide. Personally I'd like to lock up MB and have a rotation of Garland, Buehrle, Danks, and pick two of Masset, Gio, Broadway, Floyd, Haegar, and any other pitching prospects we have.

I think we can lock down a very sick rotation and three of the members wouldn't be FA eligible for a while.

Of course Kenny might be offered the right deal for Buehrle. He is my favorite player, but I will trust Kenny to do what is best for the franchise.

We can also do a rent a player deal with a team and dump Crede, Dye, or Iguchi.

I'm not saying we should be doing this. I stated earlier that we should wait at least a month if not 2 before we actually pull the trigger on a trade to sell players. I'm just pointing out possibilities.

ShoelessJoeS
05-29-2007, 12:47 AM
With the majority of the bullpen performing like it has recently, there is no way in hell this team wins 95.

We can only hope that they turn it around. Stay optimistic Sox fans!!!

Thome25
05-29-2007, 12:47 AM
Who are you gonna sell? MB?

Buehrle, Crede, Contreras, Iguchi, and Dye look to be possible goners if this season doesn't turn around.

Granted, we won't get much for Iguchi or Dye and we won't be fleecing teams for the other three but this team has had it's head up it's collective ass for a full season and a quarter.

Might be time to shake things up AND get something for these guys or risk losing Buehrle, Iguchi, Dye, and Crede (after '08) for nothing in return.

oeo
05-29-2007, 12:49 AM
Won't take 95 wins to get the wild card. The Injuns bullpen IS going to implode at some point and Detroit, while stable, isn't "great". 95 will win the division. 92 will snag the wildcard. Maybe 90 the way the Yankees are playing.

I think the Indians will be around until the end, even if it's their offense and starting pitching that bring them there.

The Tigers, OTOH, look eerily similar to the 2006 White Sox. Good starting pitching to start the season, an awful bullpen, and an out-of-the-ordinary offense.

Thome25
05-29-2007, 12:58 AM
Won't take 95 wins to get the wild card. The Injuns bullpen IS going to implode at some point and Detroit, while stable, isn't "great". 95 will win the division. 92 will snag the wildcard. Maybe 90 the way the Yankees are playing.

It might take 95 wins to get the wildcard. In all probability, the wildcard will be coming out of the AL central.

We already have TWO teams in our division (Indians and Tigers) who would probably win any other division in the league. (Or have a damn good shot at it.)

What if the AL Central ends up in the same situation as in 1993 (correct me if I'm wrong.) when the Braves and Giants won 104 and 103 games respectively?

While I don't think the Indians and Tigers will win quite that many games, you get the point.

The Tigers won 95 games in 2006 and all they got was the wild card.

sox1970
05-29-2007, 01:08 AM
It might take 95 wins to get the wildcard. In all probability, the wildcard will be coming out of the AL central.

We already have TWO teams in our division (Indians and Tigers) who would probably win any other division in the league. (Or have a damn good shot at it.)

What if the AL Central ends up in the same situation as in 1993 (correct me if I'm wrong.) when the Braves and Giants won 104 and 103 games respectively?

While I don't think the Indians and Tigers will win quite that many games, you get the point.

The Tigers won 95 games in 2006 and all they got was the wild card.

It all depends on interleague play. There were three 90 game winners last year because the Sox, Twins, and Tigers all kicked ass in interleague play. Let's get through June and then we can figure what the wildcard will probably take.

WhiteSox5187
05-29-2007, 01:35 AM
Jesus Christ, I had to double check my calender and make sure it was May 28th, not August 28th.

Look this team has a couple of holes (the bullpen needs to be patched up and we need an everyday left fielder) but EVERY team has holes! If the starting pitching keeps pitching like this, and the bullpen stops pissing itself everytime it is brought into a game, then there is no reason this team can't get really hot and win like, ten in a row. Granted, we're digging ourselves a bit of a hole, but there is a lot of time to claw back. How far out was Minnesota at this time last year?

southsideirish71
05-29-2007, 01:49 AM
Jesus Christ, I had to double check my calender and make sure it was May 28th, not August 28th.

Look this team has a couple of holes (the bullpen needs to be patched up and we need an everyday left fielder) but EVERY team has holes! If the starting pitching keeps pitching like this, and the bullpen stops pissing itself everytime it is brought into a game, then there is no reason this team can't get really hot and win like, ten in a row. Granted, we're digging ourselves a bit of a hole, but there is a lot of time to claw back. How far out was Minnesota at this time last year?

Show me tangible evidence of the sox being a 2nd half team. In 05, we had one of the best starts in team history, and had to hold on at the end. In 06, we started out great, and had a bad second half. In fact thats what I seem to remember about the last 7 years. We play great in the first half, and then battle in the 2nd half.

Wasting all that great great pitching at the beginning of the year is what will cost us this year. We should be in first place weathering the storm and not almost 6 games out struggling right now.

Thome25
05-29-2007, 01:50 AM
Jesus Christ, I had to double check my calender and make sure it was May 28th, not August 28th.

Look this team has a couple of holes (the bullpen needs to be patched up and we need an everyday left fielder) but EVERY team has holes! If the starting pitching keeps pitching like this, and the bullpen stops pissing itself everytime it is brought into a game, then there is no reason this team can't get really hot and win like, ten in a row. Granted, we're digging ourselves a bit of a hole, but there is a lot of time to claw back. How far out was Minnesota at this time last year?

How do you want to win ten in a row when this team has been playing like it has bad chemistry for almost a year and a half?

When we're not pitching well we're hitting well. When we're not hitting well we're pitching well.

We're not very deep due to injuries, we have no leadoff man to set the table for a lineup full of base cloggers, the bullpen is in trouble and I honestly don't see a turnaround from these guys......I mean really, guys like Logan, MacDougal, and "Day from Double A" don't honestly constitute anywhere near a good bullpen.

Not to mention the fact that Thornton has been average and Aardsma flat out sucks right now.

I didn't even go in depth about our average pitching staff. Sorry but, it's not in the upper echelon of the AL or the league for that matter when you have a past his prime Contreras and a rookie in Danks who is still learning on the job taking up 2/5ths of our rotation.

Do I have to mention team speed? (or our complete lack of it.) Oh and we can't hit lefties to save our lives in a division full of good left-handed pitching.

Does this still look like a 95-win playoff bound team to you?


I seriously hope I'm wrong but, it is what it is.

Nellie_Fox
05-29-2007, 01:52 AM
Show me tangible evidence of the sox being a 2nd half team. In 05, we had one of the best starts in team history, and had to hold on at the end. In 06, we started out great, and had a bad second half. In fact thats what I seem to remember about the last 7 years. We play great in the first half, and then battle in the 2nd half. Well, "we" haven't played well in the first half (so far,) so maybe this year will be different. You never know; every season develops in its own way. Past performance is no sure indicator of future performance.

StillMissOzzie
05-29-2007, 02:45 AM
That's up to Kenny to decide. Personally I'd like to lock up MB and have a rotation of Garland, Buehrle, Danks, and pick two of Masset, Gio, Broadway, Floyd, Haegar, and any other pitching prospects we have.

I think we can lock down a very sick rotation and three of the members wouldn't be FA eligible for a while.


Buehrle, Crede, Contreras, Iguchi, and Dye look to be possible goners if this season doesn't turn around.



Contreras is signed for TWO more years at $10M per. Yeah, it might save the money, but that's like waving the white flag for 2008 as well as 2007. I don't think he's going anywhere just yet. I don't think Iguchi will be looking to break the bank, nor should he, so I would not include him as gonzo either.
Buehrle, Crede, and Dye, however... if the Sox have fallen out of contention, then sadly, I think you are right.

I am not so sure that it will take 95 W's to make the playoffs this year, but it sure looks like the Wild Card will be from the AL Central again.

SMO
:(:

BainesHOF
05-29-2007, 06:53 AM
This team winning 95 games this season looks like pure fantasy. The bullpen is in shambles besides Jenks and Thornton, the everyday lineup plays sluggishly with no speed, the lack of situational hitting, and Ozzie's abandonment of regularly calling for bunts in the late innings of tight games is disconcerting, to say the least. Sure we have quite a lot of talent, but this team is quite a ways from being a serious contender for anything.

ZombieRob
05-29-2007, 07:23 AM
I know i'm in the minority,but i really think KW should really take a look at deadline time when and if the Sox are still around the same level of play .and start dumping some of these big so called HR hitters and get more contact hitters and speed guys if possible.

AuroraSoxFan
05-29-2007, 11:43 AM
I voted for "I'm not so sure." But my real answer would be a flat out NO right now. A playoff caliber team needs to perform fundamental elements of the game. Right now Sox are failing miserably in simple things. they blow far too many leads and they leave far too many runners stranded. You can do that in the NL Central and get away with it. In the AL Central you simply need to get that stuff handled. Sure it happens here and there to every team. But in a tough division if you wanna be in the post season you have to knock runners in and shut the door on a lead much more often than not. Unless they really clean it up over the next 30-35 games the postseason will not be a reality. They will need quality teams (MN and DET) to stumble in order to claw back if this continues much longer. And that is just not very likely.

JB98
05-29-2007, 01:01 PM
This team winning 95 games this season looks like pure fantasy. The bullpen is in shambles besides Jenks and Thornton, the everyday lineup plays sluggishly with no speed, the lack of situational hitting, and Ozzie's abandonment of regularly calling for bunts in the late innings of tight games is disconcerting, to say the least. Sure we have quite a lot of talent, but this team is quite a ways from being a serious contender for anything.

Every time Ozzie calls for a bunt, it results in a major ****-up. Take Sunday's game against TB, for example. I believe we had a tie game in the sixth, or maybe we were down one in the seventh. I can't remember which. Konerko and Crede start the inning with back-to-back singles. Hall, who is not a great hitter and should be able to get a bunt down, pops up two bunts. Fortunately, they were so bad they were unplayable. He ends up flying out to left, and the scoring opportunity disintegrates from there. I can't really blame Ozzie for not calling for more bunts. His players can't do it. They worked on it all spring. It has translated to the regular season at all.

kitekrazy
05-29-2007, 01:03 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if the division winner only has 95 wins. It's a 4 team race and one of the teams would have to be really dominate over the other 3 teams. The ones that don't get there will be because of wasted opportunities against weaker AL teams and the NL league.

jandm859
05-29-2007, 01:04 PM
hey kenny, youre getting exactly what you deserve!!
you did nothing to improve the '07 team. left major holes in lf, cf, and ss.
We're as slow as can be. Middle of the lineup has the speed of my over 40 softball team. 500 at best

INSox56
05-29-2007, 01:11 PM
50-50. Sometimes I think we'll be alright and get there. Then other times I just don't even want to watch us play it's so bad. It's going to depend less on us and more on the two above us. I thought that the Tigers wouldn't pitch as well as last year and for the most part, I'm right. The Indians obviously have offense as with last year, it's just that their pitching is somehow getting it done and their bullpen isn't costing them near as many games as I figured it would. Both of those teams are just pounding down other teams offensively and pitching isn't seeming to be a factor at all. I think our play will fall somewhat secondary to how they keep doing with the bats. With the Sox, it seems unthinkable to imagine us going without a huge ass struggle offensively each and every season. With the indians and somewhat with the tigers, it seems like that's not so much of an impossibility. I know that every team has its ups and downs both with the bats and pitching, but for the most part, I can't see them pulling a Sox and just falling on their damn faces for two months.

FloridaSox
05-29-2007, 02:40 PM
It might even be a good thing too. We have the young pitching talent. If we could get better prospects for some trades we will be set. I just don't want to lose Buehrle.

SI.com is reporting under its rumors that Buehrle and Dye are available for prospects. This is what happens when your minor league system is not worth s..t.

Nellie_Fox
05-29-2007, 02:51 PM
SI.com is reporting under its rumors that Buehrle and Dye are available for prospects. This is what happens when your minor league system is not worth s..t.Evading language filters...sigh..:(:

Flight #24
05-29-2007, 03:12 PM
It's weird, but even thought the Sox are struggling a bit, they have 1 more loss than Detroit and are only 2.5 out of the WC & 5 from the division. Count me in the mindset of "but they're playing like crap and therefore the deficit doesn't mean that much", but it's the basic facts: If McDougal gets it fixed, with the O improving and the starters still pitching well, it's anyone's ballgame. That's a big IF.

However, I am completely sick and fed up with the crap the org has been feeding about the Twins. It seems like 5-10 years that KW has been preaching the "Twins play the right way, execute" mantra, and Ozzie's done it as well. Example: In the big inning yesterday, 2 on no out, Castillo puts down a perfect sac bunt. Then Punto does a perfectly executed "sacrifice" to score the run (but Jose doesn't get over in time). Yet the org that's been thinking of that as their mantra for quite a while still can't find someone who doesn't pop them up with regularity? *****.

Talk is cheap. The Sox by their actions have proven that they don't care about offensive execution. If it is that important to them, then they need to start firing coaches because whoever they got isn't getting the organization message through to the players at any level.:angry:

1917
05-29-2007, 03:24 PM
I love the Sox and always will, but I'm a realist, stranger things have happened, but this isnt our year. We would need a major trade, like a Crawford or Iguchi, right now, to make us contenders. With Ozuna and Pods out, we have no speed threats...our Bull Pen, made up of 2 former Royals to start the season, is a mess...we have had injurys...it's just not our year...I don't want to suffer thru another "Hey the kids can play" era, but thats the road we are going down. In 2003 we tarted bad and made 2 trades to get a spark in us, but with the possibility of losing so many players, I dont think the upper brass is going to "go for it" again.

gobears1987
05-29-2007, 03:34 PM
Oh well, even if we don't make the playoffs this year, I won't be too upset. I think we will be really good for a long time if KW can make stuff happen in the next few months.

http://www.worth1000.com/entries/90500/90821KPso_w.jpg

We'll always have 2005

Bob G
05-29-2007, 04:28 PM
It's ironic that going into the season most people (including myself) thought the bullpen was improved compared to last year ... now it's pathetic.

By mid-July if we're 10 games or more out of playoff contention KW will start unloading players for prospects, some guys who can run and maybe as a bonus, a player who can actually bunt...

1917
05-29-2007, 04:50 PM
It's ironic that going into the season most people (including myself) thought the bullpen was improved compared to last year ... now it's pathetic.

By mid-July if we're 10 games or more out of playoff contention KW will start unloading players for prospects, some guys who can run and maybe as a bonus, a player who can actually bunt...

Marlins are on there 3rd rebuliding project and seem to be having success doing so with 2 WS...with the young talent they have now, give them 2 years and they wil be back in the playoffs...it can be done, we just have to suffer for a couple years. We'll keep Konerko for leadership, much like we did with Frank, and just reload and hope for the best...my 2 cents anyways

greenpeach
05-29-2007, 06:31 PM
SI.com is reporting under its rumors that Buehrle and Dye are available for prospects. This is what happens when your minor league system is not worth s..t.

The biggest problem I see with the Sox is quite frankly we don't have a farm system that has been stockpiled with good young talent like the Twins, Tigers & Indians over the past few years. Trades or always going to be hit-and-miss regardless of the organization but we don't have the luxury of waiting for the good young talent to develop like our chief rivals.

kitekrazy
05-30-2007, 12:11 AM
It's weird, but even thought the Sox are struggling a bit, they have 1 more loss than Detroit and are only 2.5 out of the WC & 5 from the division. Count me in the mindset of "but they're playing like crap and therefore the deficit doesn't mean that much", but it's the basic facts: If McDougal gets it fixed, with the O improving and the starters still pitching well, it's anyone's ballgame. That's a big IF.

However, I am completely sick and fed up with the crap the org has been feeding about the Twins. It seems like 5-10 years that KW has been preaching the "Twins play the right way, execute" mantra, and Ozzie's done it as well. Example: In the big inning yesterday, 2 on no out, Castillo puts down a perfect sac bunt. Then Punto does a perfectly executed "sacrifice" to score the run (but Jose doesn't get over in time). Yet the org that's been thinking of that as their mantra for quite a while still can't find someone who doesn't pop them up with regularity? *****.

Talk is cheap. The Sox by their actions have proven that they don't care about offensive execution. If it is that important to them, then they need to start firing coaches because whoever they got isn't getting the organization message through to the players at any level.:angry:

Werd! Station to station baseball seems like a habit they can't break.

BainesHOF
05-30-2007, 12:30 AM
Every time Ozzie calls for a bunt, it results in a major ****-up. Take Sunday's game against TB, for example. I believe we had a tie game in the sixth, or maybe we were down one in the seventh. I can't remember which. Konerko and Crede start the inning with back-to-back singles. Hall, who is not a great hitter and should be able to get a bunt down, pops up two bunts. Fortunately, they were so bad they were unplayable. He ends up flying out to left, and the scoring opportunity disintegrates from there. I can't really blame Ozzie for not calling for more bunts. His players can't do it. They worked on it all spring. It has translated to the regular season at all.

Ozzie doesn't get off easy here. One, if the bunting continues to be a problem, you have the guilty players show up early daily until they improve. You also have them bunt with two strikes, and let them embarrass themselves until they're motivated enough to take bunting seriously and improve.

Jurr
05-30-2007, 12:38 AM
Ozzie doesn't get off easy here. One, if the bunting continues to be a problem, you have the guilty players show up early daily until they improve. You also have them bunt with two strikes, and let them embarrass themselves until they're motivated enough to take bunting seriously and improve.
What's funny is watching the '05 Sox video. Hawk says, "if you didn't fit the mold, you didn't make the ballclub". This is said as they show video clips of Maggs, Jose, and Carlos Lee.

I'll be damned if we don't have that same Sox team, just new names on the backs of the jerseys.

UserNameBlank
05-30-2007, 12:40 AM
The biggest problem I see with the Sox is quite frankly we don't have a farm system that has been stockpiled with good young talent like the Twins, Tigers & Indians over the past few years. Trades or always going to be hit-and-miss regardless of the organization but we don't have the luxury of waiting for the good young talent to develop like our chief rivals.
The good young talent that the Twins have is pretty much Morneau, Garza, Liriano, Bonser, Mauer, Santana and that's it. Maybe Kubel but he has to play a full year before anyone knows who he is at the ML level.

Of the players mentioned above, Mauer was a high draft pick we didn't have a chance at, Garza (1st round), Morneau (3rd round), and Kubel (12th round) we all could have drafed but didn't, Liriano and Bonser came from a huge ripoff, and Santana was a rule-5 guy. Bartlett, Punto, Tyner, Ford, etc. are players who play the game the right way and annoy teams with their speed and overall turf baseball. I wouldn't trade any Sox IF for any one of those guys.

Take a look at the Twins drafts at their official site (http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/team/draft.jsp?c_id=min&year=06). It's not like they are seriously kicking our asses in any other areas besides the development of fundamental skills in their players. They are just like any other organization, they get lucky here and there with Rule-5 guys and trades. We've done the same thing; Jenks was a rule-5 pick and the McCarthy trade could end up a lesser version of the AJ to SF trade, depending on what happens with Liriano in the future. They've also gotten lucky in the later rounds, as have we (Buehrle, McCarthy, Young for example).

Our team just doesn't have balance. Our players play in every park like it is the Cell. We suck fundamentally. That's it.

JB98
05-30-2007, 12:43 AM
Ozzie doesn't get off easy here. One, if the bunting continues to be a problem, you have the guilty players show up early daily until they improve. You also have them bunt with two strikes, and let them embarrass themselves until they're motivated enough to take bunting seriously and improve.

It's my understanding that certain players have been made to show up early and take extra bunting practice. Again, it has yet to translate over into games. I agree with the idea of forcing players to bunt with two strikes. Get it down in fair play or walk back to the bench with a strikeout to a chorus of boos.

Jurr
05-30-2007, 12:45 AM
The good young talent that the Twins have is pretty much Morneau, Garza, Liriano, Bonser, Mauer, Santana and that's it. Maybe Kubel but he has to play a full year before anyone knows who he is at the ML level.

Of the players mentioned above, Mauer was a high draft pick we didn't have a chance at, Garza (1st round), Morneau (3rd round), and Kubel (12th round) we all could have drafed but didn't, Liriano and Bonser came from a huge ripoff, and Santana was a rule-5 guy. Bartlett, Punto, Tyner, Ford, etc. are players who play the game the right way and annoy teams with their speed and overall turf baseball. I wouldn't trade any Sox IF for any one of those guys.

Take a look at the Twins drafts at their official site (http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/team/draft.jsp?c_id=min&year=06). It's not like they are seriously kicking our asses in any other areas besides the development of fundamental skills in their players. They are just like any other organization, they get lucky here and there with Rule-5 guys and trades. We've done the same thing; Jenks was a rule-5 pick and the McCarthy trade could end up a lesser version of the AJ to SF trade, depending on what happens with Liriano in the future. They've also gotten lucky in the later rounds, as have we (Buehrle, McCarthy, Young for example).

Our team just doesn't have balance. Our players play in every park like it is the Cell. We suck fundamentally. That's it.
Yup, this team has been a big puncher that gets jabbed to death for years. One year they get the idea and just out-fundamental-ed and outpitched everybody else. That didn't last very long, did it?

Frater Perdurabo
05-30-2007, 12:48 AM
Counting on other teams to fail to ensure your own team's success is a recipe for a broken heart.

Nevertheless, it's far too early to entertain thoughts of conceding the division.

Right now the focus should be on getting the hitters to execute (not just bunts, although those wouuld be helpful, but also moving runners over, hitting the other way/behind the runner, etc.), finding bullpen pitchers who can get batters out (whether through internal improvements, callups, or trades), and maintaining the general health and consistency of the starting pitchers.

If at the end of July the Sox are 10 games out of the division, behind several teams for the Wild Card and/or hovering around .500, I would try to trade PK to the Angels. He possesses many good qualities, but he also exemplifies the team's slow-footed, power-happy mentality. I also would trade Dye. I then would put the savings into signing Buehrle and Iguchi and would make a run at Ichiro this offseason.

UserNameBlank
05-30-2007, 12:57 AM
Counting on other teams to fail to ensure your own team's success is a recipe for a broken heart.

Nevertheless, it's far too early to entertain thoughts of conceding the division.

Right now the focus should be on getting the hitters to execute (not just bunts, although those wouuld be helpful, but also moving runners over, hitting the other way/behind the runner, etc.), finding bullpen pitchers who can get batters out (whether through internal improvements, callups, or trades), and maintaining the general health and consistency of the starting pitchers.

If at the end of July the Sox are 10 games out of the division, behind several teams for the Wild Card and/or hovering around .500, I would try to trade PK to the Angels. He possesses many good qualities, but he also exemplifies the team's slow-footed, power-happy mentality. I also would trade Dye. I then would put the savings into signing Buehrle and Iguchi and would make a run at Ichiro this offseason.
It's May 29th. June is just around the corner. If this team can't turn it around by the middle of June, serious changes need to be made. You can't just make a trade all of a sudden in a the span of a couple days. KW needs to know whether he will be a buyer or a seller within the next three weeks, and as soon as he figures out what he wants to do, he needs to get on the phone. This team as it is is going nowhere.

kitekrazy
05-30-2007, 11:43 AM
You also have them bunt with two strikes, and let them embarrass themselves until they're motivated enough to take bunting seriously and improve.

This accomplishes nothing except more wasted opportunities. No manager will be around long if embarrassing players takes place over winning games.
How many players bunt after two strikes anyway?

roadrunner
05-30-2007, 12:07 PM
Counting on other teams to fail to ensure your own team's success is a recipe for a broken heart.

Nevertheless, it's far too early to entertain thoughts of conceding the division.

Right now the focus should be on getting the hitters to execute (not just bunts, although those wouuld be helpful, but also moving runners over, hitting the other way/behind the runner, etc.), finding bullpen pitchers who can get batters out (whether through internal improvements, callups, or trades), and maintaining the general health and consistency of the starting pitchers.

If at the end of July the Sox are 10 games out of the division, behind several teams for the Wild Card and/or hovering around .500, I would try to trade PK to the Angels. He possesses many good qualities, but he also exemplifies the team's slow-footed, power-happy mentality. I also would trade Dye. I then would put the savings into signing Buehrle and Iguchi and would make a run at Ichiro this offseason.

Nice ideas. I would, however, change "end of July" to "end of June" because of the schedule. After the Yankees series the Sox play the next 26 games against Hou, Phi, Pit, Fla, Chi, TB, KC and Balt. If the Sox can't get WAY ABOVE .500 during that stretch then you can stick a fork in em regardless of what the rest of the AL looks like. At minimum, that should be an 18-8 stretch. (The Tigers are currently 9 games over .500 so 18-8 still wouldn't allow us to catch them if they continue to play winning baseball)