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Joe
05-27-2007, 04:48 PM
Per Comcast Sports Net.

VenturaFan23
05-27-2007, 04:49 PM
McDougal must have missed the bus :mad:

TDog
05-27-2007, 04:50 PM
Per Comcast Sports Net.

I expected Sisco to be the one to be sent down. Who is coming up, along with a replacement for Ozuna?

ilsox7
05-27-2007, 04:52 PM
I expected Sisco to be the one to be sent down. Who is coming up, along with a replacement for Ozuna?

Yep, it makes sense. Mac was not the one to be sent down, IMO. Hopefully this lights a fire under the entire bullpen.

DickAllen72
05-27-2007, 04:54 PM
It's about time. That leaves two spots to be filled. Hopefully at least one of them is filled by a major league talent from outside the organization.

Viva Medias B's
05-27-2007, 04:55 PM
McDougal must have missed the bus :mad:

I'd send MacDougal somewhere, but it would not be Charlotte.

DickAllen72
05-27-2007, 04:57 PM
I'd send MacDougal somewhere, but it would not be Charlotte.
I'd send him to Philly if they'd send us Rowand.

TDog
05-27-2007, 04:58 PM
Yep, it makes sense. Mac was not the one to be sent down, IMO. Hopefully this lights a fire under the entire bullpen.


Sisco has to have felt for weeks that his status as a major leaguer was tenuous at best. I don't know how much pressure MacDougal is going to feel by seeing Sisco go down.

DSpivack
05-27-2007, 05:05 PM
Who's up? Vasquez or Prinz?

UserNameBlank
05-27-2007, 05:06 PM
I expected this after his outing today. Put him in the rotation down there and see how he does.

With one opening on the 40-man roster and with Pablo going to the DL, it will be interesting to see what the Sox do. They will probably bring in another pitcher and an OF, but they have a few different options.

They could acquire an OF and place him on the 40 man, calling up someone on the roster, probably Vasquez, to pitch out of the pen. Or they could call up Owens/Sweeney/Anderson who are all on the 40 man and add another pitcher (Bukvich, Wasserman) to the roster.

Or they could surprise everyone and call up Dewon Day and Josh Fields.

The Sox have some tinkering to do...

DrCrawdad
05-27-2007, 05:10 PM
My brother-in-law and I were following the game while out and about. When I saw what MacDougle and Sisco did I said that Sisco would be headed to Charlotte tonight.

The Sox probably can not send MacD. to AAA without having to pass him thru waivers.

I'd say they'll call on Vasquez. IF they do, let's hope he does better than the other Vasquez.

Lip Man 1
05-27-2007, 05:10 PM
Dick:

Much as I'd love to see the Sox go out and get two or three relief guys the fact is that it's far to early to make deals and to get something you have to give something and I don't know frankly how highly regarded the Sox minor league prospects are.

Lip

rowand33
05-27-2007, 05:10 PM
Owens and Vasquez up?

DickAllen72
05-27-2007, 05:13 PM
Dick:

Much as I'd love to see the Sox go out and get two or three relief guys the fact is that it's far to early to make deals and to get something you have to give something and I don't know frankly how highly regarded the Sox minor league prospects are.

Lip
They only need one relief guy. They need a major league starter in LF, which they've lacked all season.

CWSpalehoseCWS
05-27-2007, 05:18 PM
I don't think they would call up Vasquez. I would guess it's either Prinz or Bukvich. The last thing the bullpen needs is another young guy, get some veteran help in there.

Lip Man 1
05-27-2007, 05:20 PM
Dick:

Personally I think they need three guys as Sisco, MacDougle and Logan are (in my opinion) worthless.

I think it was Hal who originally brought up the point about Kenny leaving the outfield shorthanded last season and that he's the one who has to answer for it. One can make the case that it's happened again this season and in the bullpen as well.

We'll see what happens over the next month to six weeks.

Lip

Harry Potter
05-27-2007, 05:22 PM
I don't think they would call up Vasquez. I would guess it's either Prinz or Bukvich. The last thing the bullpen needs is another young guy, get some veteran help in there.

Vasquez seems like the logical choice because he is already on the 40-man roster. Who do you drop if you call up either Prinz or Bukvich?

CWSpalehoseCWS
05-27-2007, 05:23 PM
Vasquez seems like the logical choice because he is already on the 40-man roster. Who do you drop if you call up either Prinz or Bukvich?

They wouldn't have to drop anyone. There is 39/40 on the roster right now. Plus even if they did, Paulino Reynoso is a waste of space IMO.

Paulwny
05-27-2007, 05:23 PM
Dick:

Personally I think they need three guys as Sisco, MacDougle and Logan are (in my opinion) worthless.

Lip

I have to agree Lip, I don't care how hard these guys throw, they're very hittable. It won't be easy getting good replacements.

DickAllen72
05-27-2007, 05:24 PM
Dick:

Personally I think they need three guys as Sisco, MacDougle and Logan are (in my opinion) worthless.

Lip
I still think Logan is OK if used correctly.

I'm sick of MacDougal but the only way he's going to be gone is via trade. He still has a decent track record and probably will pitch well at some point this season, but right now he's killing us and shouldn't be used in critical spots until he straightens himself out. If they can trade him for a real OFer, go for it.

Sisco should be starting games in AAA and see if he can ever make it as a starter.

veeter
05-27-2007, 05:37 PM
Bullpens are VERY hard to build. The Twins relievers, and any other team with a lights-out pen, are lucky and rare. Any prospect who's tabbed for the pen, except pure closers, are a crap shoot. You may catch lightning in a bottle or you'll get what the Sox have. I personally like the idea of Wasserman. We could maybe get another (good)Shingo type effort for a little while any way. He's a total soft tosser.

UserNameBlank
05-27-2007, 05:41 PM
Vasquez seems like the logical choice because he is already on the 40-man roster. Who do you drop if you call up either Prinz or Bukvich?

They wouldn't have to drop anyone. There is 39/40 on the roster right now. Plus even if they did, Paulino Reynoso is a waste of space IMO.
I agree. There is one space open and Reynoso would be a waste of it IMO. Prinz as well. Bukvich or Wassermann would be the choices IMO, and both of those guys would be worthy, but it all comes down to whether or not the Sox want to go outside the organization to add a guy, probably an OF.

Carlos Vasquez, Dewon Day, and Oneli Perez are on the 40-man already, so you could call any one of those guys up and put them in the pen. I think Oneli is nothing more than trade bait, but Vasquez and Day could both stick around.

Harry Potter
05-27-2007, 05:49 PM
They wouldn't have to drop anyone. There is 39/40 on the roster right now. Plus even if they did, Paulino Reynoso is a waste of space IMO.

Oh thats right, they never filled Rogowski's spot

ChicagoG19
05-27-2007, 05:50 PM
MacDougal and Sisco = Once a Royal always a Royal

DSpivack
05-27-2007, 06:02 PM
MacDougal and Sisco = Once a Royal always a Royal

This year's he less MacDougal and more Littell. That said, I think they call up Vasquez to see what he can do.

The Sox really got lucky in 2005, with amazing performances that year by Hermanson, Politte, and Cotts. Relief pitchers seemingly come and go; Anaheim and Minnesota are seemingly the only teams with consistently good relievers. I don't know if that's scouting, player development, or what.

TDog
05-27-2007, 06:08 PM
MacDougal and Sisco = Once a Royal always a Royal


A year ago, people were posting here that the Royals had a very good bullpen that the White Sox should raid. Two years ago, people were posting about how good Mackowiak, then a Cubs-killing Pirate, would look in a White Sox uniform. Baseball isn't rocket science. It's not even a science.

Logan has been good in the role that should have been Sisco's this year. Logan's failure against the Cubs has overshadowed his good outings. I hope Sisco's replacement does a lot better than Sisco did.

Dan Mega
05-27-2007, 06:12 PM
What about that Russel kid as a call up? I liked him in spring training.

DrCrawdad
05-27-2007, 06:12 PM
Going into this season I thought the Sox 'pen was a strong point of this team.

What was I smoking?

:bong:

Brian26
05-27-2007, 06:15 PM
I'd send him to Philly if they'd send us Rowand.

It looks like we missed the boat on any MacDougal trade at this point. You're supposed to sell high. His trade value right now must be next to nothing.

FedEx227
05-27-2007, 06:17 PM
I'd send him to Philly if they'd send us Rowand.

http://www.bittermancircle.com/my%20images/BeatDeadHorse.gif

TDog
05-27-2007, 06:19 PM
Going into this season I thought the Sox 'pen was a strong point of this team.

What was I smoking?

:bong:


A lot of people did. And in April they were right. Bullpens can go south in a hurry. In Seattle one year, they turned a lousy bullpen into a great bullpen by doing little else but firing the pitching coach. But that fired coach found a job with the White Sox. And his name was Nardi Contreras.

I'm not suggesting the White Sox fire any coaches. I'm saying that bullpens are fragile enough that you don't want to sign guys for big money to long-term contracts.

MCHSoxFan
05-27-2007, 06:32 PM
I'd send him to Philly if they'd send us Rowand.

YEEESS!!! Him and BA should go. I will take Rowand. So what will the starting OF be? LF- ERSTAD CF- ROWAND RF- JD? Sounds good to me!

FedEx227
05-27-2007, 06:40 PM
YEEESS!!! Him and BA should go. I will take Rowand. So what will the starting OF be? LF- ERSTAD CF- ROWAND RF- JD? Sounds good to me!

Guys he was great for us, and he is still one of my favorite Sox players of all-time, but can we ever have a trade discussion without putting his name into it?!

ondafarm
05-27-2007, 06:45 PM
The Sox need an outfielder and preferably someone who can occasionally lead-off. They also need another relief pitcher.

I wouldn't be shocked to see BA or Sweeney, but Owens seems the most likely of the three. Relief pitcher would seem to be Bukuvich.

I think Ozuna will be out for quite awhile, possibly two or three months.

I am worried about Hall. His shoulder seemed to bother him today.

russ99
05-27-2007, 07:11 PM
Owens would be nice, if he can play defense better in CF than Terrero. He had 2 horrible reads and plays off the wall today. I'd think the Sox would get Sweeney back before any other outfielder considering his solid play.

If MacDougal can't throw strikes anymore, he won't be with the big club much longer. I was kind of shocked that he was subbed by Masset. I thought Ozzie was gonna give him plenty of rope to hang himself with today.

Maybe Masset gets that 7th inning role while MacDougal gets back on track? I also wouldn't mind seeing Haeger coming out of the pen either at this point.

crazyozzie02
05-27-2007, 07:26 PM
Guys he was great for us, and he is still one of my favorite Sox players of all-time, but can we ever have a trade discussion without putting his name into it?!

the answer to that question would be a 100% no.

rowand33
05-27-2007, 07:55 PM
Owens would be nice, if he can play defense better in CF than Terrero. He had 2 horrible reads and plays off the wall today. I'd think the Sox would get Sweeney back before any other outfielder considering his solid play.

If MacDougal can't throw strikes anymore, he won't be with the big club much longer. I was kind of shocked that he was subbed by Masset. I thought Ozzie was gonna give him plenty of rope to hang himself with today.

Maybe Masset gets that 7th inning role while MacDougal gets back on track? I also wouldn't mind seeing Haeger coming out of the pen either at this point.

I'd love to see Haeger coming out of the pen. I know he's struggled a little this year in AAA, but he was fantastic last year in september.

AND

I think one of the bullpen's biggest problems is that it's a bullpen filled with guys that throw hard. That's all well and good, but we need somebody with a different look coming out of that pen.

Imagine throwing Haeger and then Jenks or Thornton or Aardsma?

Nasty

ilsox7
05-27-2007, 08:06 PM
Imagine throwing Haeger and then Jenks or Thornton or Aardsma?

Nasty

It really wouldn't matter. If they are getting guys out, no hitter would face both Haeger and Jenks. The bullpen needs guys who can throw strikes. A knuckleballer is generally not the answer to that problem.

UserNameBlank
05-27-2007, 08:21 PM
It looks like we missed the boat on any MacDougal trade at this point. You're supposed to sell high. His trade value right now must be next to nothing.

I highly doubt that. He gets wild like he always has, but his arm will always make him valuable. He just needs to throw his fastball more often. This slider, slider, slider **** isn't doing anyone on the Sox any favors.

I'd still shop him and Thornton though. There is no reason not to.

UserNameBlank
05-27-2007, 08:23 PM
It really wouldn't matter. If they are getting guys out, no hitter would face both Haeger and Jenks. The bullpen needs guys who can throw strikes. A knuckleballer is generally not the answer to that problem.
Agreed. Haeger would suck ass out of the pen. We already have a backup catcher who can't throw and a pen full of guys who have problems getting ahead in the count. The last thing we need is to make things even more difficult by increasing our walks allowed, throwing a ton of wild pitches, and begging opposing teams to run all over us.

FedEx227
05-27-2007, 08:28 PM
I highly doubt that. He gets wild like he always has, but his arm will always make him valuable. He just needs to throw his fastball more often. This slider, slider, slider **** isn't doing anyone on the Sox any favors.

I'd still shop him and Thornton though. There is no reason not to.

But he's not throwing sliders. He's throwing fastballs but letting his shoulder fly open causing it to look like a slider.

thomas35forever
05-27-2007, 08:34 PM
One ex-Royal down, one to go. MacDougal's better watch it because he's ice skating on a pond toward the thin ice area.

Paulwny
05-27-2007, 09:02 PM
It looks like we missed the boat on any MacDougal trade at this point. You're supposed to sell high. His trade value right now must be next to nothing.

Agree, if Coop is as highly regarded by mlb as he is here, who'd want a pitcher that Coop can't straighten out. Right now MacDougal is worthless in a trade.

JB98
05-27-2007, 09:09 PM
Oh thats right, they never filled Rogowski's spot

Actually, Terrero took Rogowski's spot. But there is still an opening on the 40-man because the Sox recently cut ties with Pedro Lopez. A guy like Prinz could be added. I'd like to see a right-handed pitcher recalled. That right-handed set-up role is looking real bad right now with the recent struggles of MacDougal, and to a lesser extent, Aardsma. Good move to send Sisco down. The guy can't even handle mop-up duty right now. MacDougal needs to pitch in non-pressure situations until further notice.

Soxfest
05-27-2007, 09:16 PM
Let's get 2 or 3 more EX Royal bullpen guys!:angry:

ondafarm
05-27-2007, 09:26 PM
Let's get 2 or 3 more EX Royal bullpen guys!:angry:

I think Sisco is down to see if he can become a starter. There are questions about his endurance but I think that is more to do with a bad release point. If he can work that out and get throwing much more free and easy then he'd have fine endurance. Otherwise, he may just be dumped.

HotelWhiteSox
05-27-2007, 10:02 PM
About damn time, a couple weeks too late actually. I actually thought there was a small chance of coming back from 4 runs down today, but then they brought Sisco in

Tragg
05-27-2007, 10:07 PM
Perhaps the Royals bullpen isn't the best place to find reinforcements for our bullpen.

(I know - it's s overly simplistic, broad generalization, etc.)

cwsfannick
05-27-2007, 10:22 PM
Sisco and MacDougal in my opinion have lost their confidence. They both appear to be aiming thier pitches.

The one name I have not seen mentioned as a possible call up is Gio. Why not him?

dickallen15
05-27-2007, 10:49 PM
I think Sisco is down to see if he can become a starter. There are questions about his endurance but I think that is more to do with a bad release point. If he can work that out and get throwing much more free and easy then he'd have fine endurance. Otherwise, he may just be dumped.
Sisco would be at 120 pitches in the 3rd inning if he were a starter. The guy needs to learn how to throw strikes once in a while without throwing meatballs up to the plate. If he can't do that, he'll probably be looking for a new occupation.

ilsox7
05-27-2007, 10:54 PM
Sisco would be at 120 pitches in the 3rd inning if he were a starter. The guy needs to learn how to throw strikes once in a while without throwing meatballs up to the plate. If he can't do that, he'll probably be looking for a new occupation.

He's also only 24. Hopefully he keeps a good attitude and helps the Sox in a big way for the next few years.

Hitmen77
05-27-2007, 11:08 PM
Glad he's been sent down. With his struggles and the number of guys in AAA who are putting up good numbers right now, it only makes sense to give one of those guys a shot.

As ilsox7 just said, Sisco's still young and may help us at some point in the future. In the meantime, I'm eager to see who we bring up. It seems to me that our options for relievers from AAA are stronger than they were last year (Tracy, Montero, etc.). Of course, I can't say that for certain until we see one of these guys perform in the majors - but let's see if one of these guys from Charlotte can carry over their success down there to the big leagues.

CWSpalehoseCWS
05-27-2007, 11:14 PM
The one name I have not seen mentioned as a possible call up is Gio. Why not him?

Well, Gio is a starter.

EMachine10
05-27-2007, 11:21 PM
Well, Gio is a starter.

As was a guy named Buehrle...

regardless, Gio should stay down there. no need to rush.

Foulke You
05-27-2007, 11:53 PM
Logan has been good in the role that should have been Sisco's this year. Logan's failure against the Cubs has overshadowed his good outings. I hope Sisco's replacement does a lot better than Sisco did.
I don't understand why Logan gets more slack with a lot of WSIers than Sisco. To me, they both pitched like crap and I wouldn't have been heartbroken to see Logan get sent down too. It wasn't just the Cubs game, Logan has come into many jams this year with a job to get out one batter and he usually fails by walking the guy or giving up a long HR. The only game Logan looked good this year was the one where he struck out Morneau on 3 pitches. Other than that, he has been just as unreliable as Sisco.

MacDougal I'm willing to cut more slack to because he has a track record of success in the bigs. He will more than likely turn it around at some point when he gets his confidence and control back. Ozzie just needs to stop throwing him into the meat grinder 7th and 8th inning 1 run game spots.

ilsox7
05-28-2007, 12:06 AM
I don't understand why Logan gets more slack with a lot of WSIers than Sisco. To me, they both pitched like crap and I wouldn't have been heartbroken to see Logan get sent down too. It wasn't just the Cubs game, Logan has come into many jams this year with a job to get out one batter and he usually fails by walking the guy or giving up a long HR. The only game Logan looked good this year was the one where he struck out Morneau on 3 pitches. Other than that, he has been just as unreliable as Sisco.

MacDougal I'm willing to cut more slack to because he has a track record of success in the bigs. He will more than likely turn it around at some point when he gets his confidence and control back. Ozzie just needs to stop throwing him into the meat grinder 7th and 8th inning 1 run game spots.

Logan has actually been very good against lefties. It's when he pitches to right-handed hitters that he gets rocked.

Thome25
05-28-2007, 12:09 AM
It's about time. That leaves two spots to be filled. Hopefully at least one of them is filled by a major league talent from outside the organization.

There's plenty of OF talent in the minors......if we go outside the organization, I'd hope it'd be for some bullpen help.

MILTMAY5
05-28-2007, 12:13 AM
Dick:

Personally I think they need three guys as Sisco, MacDougle and Logan are (in my opinion) worthless.

I think it was Hal who originally brought up the point about Kenny leaving the outfield shorthanded last season and that he's the one who has to answer for it. One can make the case that it's happened again this season and in the bullpen as well.

We'll see what happens over the next month to six weeks.

Lip
Your first line says it all. You don't compete for a championship with those 3 bums in your bullpen. Granted, Mac wasn't getting any of the close calls, walking guys with nobody on base is inexcusable!

WhiteSox5187
05-28-2007, 12:31 AM
Good...how Sisco has remained on this roster for so long is a mysterious to me. He's got such great stuff, if only he would throw strikes!!

oeo
05-28-2007, 12:40 AM
Dick:

Much as I'd love to see the Sox go out and get two or three relief guys the fact is that it's far to early to make deals and to get something you have to give something and I don't know frankly how highly regarded the Sox minor league prospects are.

Lip

Do we not remember last year? We ended up with David Riske. I don't think you'll ever find good relief help in the middle of a season (although MacDougal was good last year).

I think the bullpen will "fix" itself. I knew they would have some problems at some point, and I tried to tell people that when they were naming them the best bullpen in baseball at the beginning of the season.

StillMissOzzie
05-28-2007, 12:54 AM
Well, Gio is a starter.

As was a guy named Buehrle...

regardless, Gio should stay down there. no need to rush.

And keep in mind that Hawk (read: voice of the White Sox brass) has often been a supporter of ALL rookie pitchers, starters as well as relievers, starting out in the bullpen. I would not rule it out.

Good...how Sisco has remained on this roster for so long is a mysterious to me. He's got such great stuff, if only he would throw strikes!!
And you could just as well substitute McDougal for Sisco in that sentence. Either they are wild or they hit the fat part of the bats, nothing in between. I am all for switching McDougal to garbage innings until he shows some effectiveness on a consistant basis.

SMO
:angry:

regionsox73
05-28-2007, 01:13 AM
The fans were on him today and started booing every ball and sarcastically cheering every strike. It was the same situation when he got mop up time in Tuesday's game vs. the A's. Right or not, people have a right to be p!ssed. For me it was a $154 afternoon with tickets and everything else so naturally I felt I deserved better than Andrew Sisco's swan song.

I look at him and he reminds me a lot of Rausch who was not mature enough to be a big league pitcher when we needed him. Props to him though for getting it right and blending into obscurity with the Expos/Nats. He is having a nice season.

I don't know if Sisco is a starter or a closer, but I think he is maybe 2 years away from being a regular with the big club.

Nellie_Fox
05-28-2007, 01:35 AM
Right or not, people have a right to be p!ssed.Do not attempt to evade the language filters! The word you wanted to use is not even banned, but you apparently thought it was. Just type the word you mean; if it's not allowed, the filter will take it out. If it is, it won't.

Re-read "what every poster should know" when you come back in two days.

Tragg
05-28-2007, 07:59 AM
Do we not remember last year? We ended up with David Riske. I don't think you'll ever find good relief help in the middle of a season (although MacDougal was good last year).

I think the bullpen will "fix" itself. I knew they would have some problems at some point, and I tried to tell people that when they were naming them the best bullpen in baseball at the beginning of the season.
We have a lot of minor league pitching talent. Some aren't ready, but some are. It would be nice to get that one more lockdown consistent pitcher aside Jenks, like Polite was in '05....but he was only that for a year. Or going way back, Barry Jones to Thigpen; Radinsky to Hernandez;

roadrunner
05-28-2007, 09:56 AM
Geez what a shock - a guy with the worst ERA in the league last year - 7.10 - was sent down.

For Sisco, Aardsma and McDougal the sox gave up Cotts, Gload, Daniel Cortes and Tyler Lumsden. (feel free to add Thornton/Borchard)

Why should we be surprised when one or more of these guys aren't very good? KW is good but it's hard to believe that you can assemble a championship caliber bullpen with the collection of crud we've sacrificed.

power arms - looks like a collection of kyle farnsworths right now

ondafarm
05-28-2007, 10:38 AM
I'd still make Thornton for Borchard right now.

roadrunner
05-28-2007, 10:44 AM
I'd still make Thornton for Borchard right now.

obviously

nsdjoe
05-28-2007, 11:14 AM
Dewon Day for the win!

RowanDye
05-28-2007, 11:14 AM
Geez what a shock - a guy with the worst ERA in the league last year - 7.10 - was sent down.

For Sisco, Aardsma and McDougal the sox gave up Cotts, Gload, Daniel Cortes and Tyler Lumsden. (feel free to add Thornton/Borchard)

Why should we be surprised when one or more of these guys aren't very good? KW is good but it's hard to believe that you can assemble a championship caliber bullpen with the collection of crud we've sacrificed.

power arms - looks like a collection of kyle farnsworths right now

So far it looks like McCarthy for Danks/Masset was good.

Garcia for Gio/Floyd may turn out to be good, but at least it doesn't look like we lost out on too much by losing Garcia.

Cotts is pitching in Iowa, and Aardsma has been pretty much lights out when he's not facing the Chicago Cubs. I think by the end of the year we will look back on that as a great trade.

I can't say I've ever liked MacDougal very much. He's terrible with inherited runners, and lately he's been giving up a ton of his own runs. At times I've seen him be pretty nasty, but the best you can say for the guy is that he's inconsistent. We didn't give up much for him though so there is still a chance he can turn it around and make the move positive.

Finally, we have the Gload for Sisco trade that most everyone thought was a steal. We were supposedly giving up nothing for something.

I just think it's funny how the one "slam-dunk" trade that KW made over the offseason is looking like the worst.

Obviously the injuries we've had were unforseeable, but I would rather have Gload on the bench right now than Sisco in the Charlotte.

roadrunner
05-28-2007, 11:39 AM
So far it looks like McCarthy for Danks/Masset was good.

Garcia for Gio/Floyd may turn out to be good, but at least it doesn't look like we lost out on too much by losing Garcia.

Cotts is pitching in Iowa, and Aardsma has been pretty much lights out when he's not facing the Chicago Cubs. I think by the end of the year we will look back on that as a great trade.

I can't say I've ever liked MacDougal very much. He's terrible with inherited runners, and lately he's been giving up a ton of his own runs. At times I've seen him be pretty nasty, but the best you can say for the guy is that he's inconsistent. We didn't give up much for him though so there is still a chance he can turn it around and make the move positive.

Finally, we have the Gload for Sisco trade that most everyone thought was a steal. We were supposedly giving up nothing for something.

I just think it's funny how the one "slam-dunk" trade that KW made over the offseason is looking like the worst.

Obviously the injuries we've had were unforseeable, but I would rather have Gload on the bench right now than Sisco in the Charlotte.

I agree with your well articulated assessment. My frustration stems from the fact that the bullpen, as a whole, is contructed of reclamation projects and/or guys other clubs didn't want. I don't know if Royal, Mariner and Cub castoffs are the recipe for success. I still have the underlying worry that the team tried to get by "on the cheap" and sold us a bunch of BS about "power arms." There are failed relievers throughout the league with "power arms." The reason that some of these guys were so readily available was due to an inability to throw strikes. Despite Cooper's magic dust - that hasn't changed.

Yeah, the trades look good but only because we didn't give anything up in the first place. We basically took a group of crap players and upgraded for a group of players that are less crappy but still not good. Sure, each individual move looks like a net positive but that still isn't helpful when you consider the prominent role that the acquired players have on the team.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-28-2007, 01:27 PM
This is really no surprise. Anyone who follows what Ozzie has been saying to the media the last two weeks already knows that he has made several veiled threats about getting the bullpen right.

KW went out of his way to upgrade the bullpen staff this past winter and so far it has mostly blown up in his face. The only question now is whether anyone better can be found to shore it up in time to make a difference. If not the season could easily slip away.

MRM
05-28-2007, 10:49 PM
And keep in mind that Hawk (read: voice of the White Sox brass) has often been a supporter of ALL rookie pitchers, starters as well as relievers, starting out in the bullpen. I would not rule it out.


You're kidding, right?

I won't even bother to go into the consequences if what you claim is true. I'll just ask do you really believe that claim?

Harry Potter
05-28-2007, 11:07 PM
I can't say I've ever liked MacDougal very much.... We didn't give up much for him though...

I think one day we will regret parting with Tyler Lumsden in this deal

DrCrawdad
05-28-2007, 11:17 PM
I think one day we will regret parting with Tyler Lumsden in this deal

http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/images/players/mugshot/ph_460274.jpg
Lumsden (http://www.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Tyler%2520Lumsden&pos=P&sid=milb&t=p_pbp&pid=460274) has a 5.63 ERA so far this season.

Harry Potter
05-28-2007, 11:43 PM
Yes, so far, hence why I said one day. I have a feeling he will have a great big league career and we will realize that our trade for Wolfman Macdougal didn't pay any dividends.

SOXPHILE
05-29-2007, 12:24 PM
I know it seems like hindsight, but I was not happy at all that the Sox got Sisco in the off season. I can still remember several games when the Sox played the Royals, and K.C. would trot him out of the bullpen, and the White Sox would just start smacking the ball all over the place. This comes as no surprise to me. I referred to him back then, and still do now as 6 foot 10 of suck.

FedEx227
05-29-2007, 01:22 PM
I know it seems like hindsight, but I was not happy at all that the Sox got Sisco in the off season. I can still remember several games when the Sox played the Royals, and K.C. would trot him out of the bullpen, and the White Sox would just start smacking the ball all over the place. This comes as no surprise to me. I referred to him back then, and still do now as 6 foot 10 of suck.

2006 vs. CWS
10.13 ERA, 5.1 IP, 10 H, 6 ER

2005 vs. CWS
2.70 ERA, 10 IP, 13 H, 3 ER

The Immigrant
05-29-2007, 02:30 PM
I know it seems like hindsight, but I was not happy at all that the Sox got Sisco in the off season. I can still remember several games when the Sox played the Royals, and K.C. would trot him out of the bullpen, and the White Sox would just start smacking the ball all over the place. This comes as no surprise to me. I referred to him back then, and still do now as 6 foot 10 of suck.

FedEx beat me to it, but I do recall that Sisco owned us in 2005. The talent is there.

FedEx227
05-29-2007, 02:59 PM
FedEx beat me to it, but I do recall that Sisco owned us in 2005. The talent is there.

It's all a matter of release point for him. That's what killed him in KC and is killing him here to. People like to throw out "JUST THROW STRIKES" "OMG USE YOUR TALENT" and stuff like that. There's more to throwing a baseball then telling yourself I'm going to throw a strike here.

Sisco drops his arm angle WAAAY too far down and doesn't release the ball at the top of his arc, causing it to just rifle to the ground. Especially at 6'10 that shouldn't be a problem, but it seems to be.

As I said with MacDougal, Coop needs to really earn his paycheck here and get these two guys mechanically sound before we ever talk about them being reliable again.

Coop on March 17th Sun Times article:

"There was a little mechanical thing, but he came in throwing the ball good, so there is no more talk of mechanics," Cooper said. "We talked about a few things on the phone when we first got him, mostly about staying taller, and he did those. I told him that if he busts his [butt] every day, continues to work hard and pay the price, and then meets the challenges we can throw at him he will have his best season so far.

If you watch him now, he's not staying taller, he's dropping down and turning his 6'10 frame into a 6'2-6'3 pitcher.

Luckily from what I've heard MacDougal's agenda today is a side-session with Coop, which supposedly will make him unavailable for today, which is great news because once he stops flying open he can get back to throwing strikes.