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HotelWhiteSox
05-26-2007, 04:50 AM
I'm just curious about the Mets-Yankees relationship. Hard to describe, but I was listening to some NY sports radio online, and thought it was bizarre how it seems accepted for everyone to talk about each other's team openly. They probably still compete or have the rivalry, but seem like they are more about cheering for both or NY as a whole.

Just thought it was weird how people would call in and go on and on, referring to the Yankees as 'we' or happy that 'my guy George [Steinbrenner] is finally talking', and at the end throw in 'I'm a Mets fan by the way'. If you do that in this city, you're obsessed or your thoughts are dismissed because you're biased, but everyone sounds like they follow both teams indepth. I wonder if the whole 'obsession' or 'inferior complex' type stuff here was just started by Cubs fans as a way to rip on Sox fans to take the attention away from the teams on the field, since they couldn't really stick their chest out about their own team.

IndianWhiteSox
05-26-2007, 05:02 AM
I'm just curious about the Mets-Yankees relationship. Hard to describe, but I was listening to some NY sports radio online, and thought it was bizarre how it seems accepted for everyone to talk about each other's team openly. They probably still compete or have the rivalry, but seem like they are more about cheering for both or NY as a whole.

Just thought it was weird how people would call in and go on and on, referring to the Yankees as 'we' or happy that 'my guy George [Steinbrenner] is finally talking', and at the end throw in 'I'm a Mets fan by the way'. If you do that in this city, you're obsessed or your thoughts are dismissed because you're biased, but everyone sounds like they follow both teams indepth. I wonder if the whole 'obsession' or 'inferior complex' type stuff here was just started by Cubs fans as a way to rip on Sox fans to take the attention away from the teams on the field, since they couldn't really stick their chest out about their own team.

That might be the case because the Yankees outlasted the Dodgers and Giants. Also, you forget the Mets were already the underdog team to begin with.

johnr1note
05-26-2007, 12:16 PM
New York is a completely different universe as far as baseball fans go.

The Yankees have been the preeminent team in baseball since the early 1920s, and, except for one ten year stretch in the late 60s and early 70s, have been a threat to compete for the pennant year in and year out during all that time, and have one of the most amazing success rates in all of pro sports. New York is traditionally the "#1 city in America" as viewed by most folks and the rest of the world, and the Yankees fit into that attitude of machismo. So if you're a New Yorker, even if you don't like the Yankees, their aura and image fits in with your own "world view" as far as being the "best city" in the nation. So I suppose a non-Yankee fan in New York would (perhaps begrudgingly) go along with whole Yankee concept because "I HEART NY!"

Indianwhitesox fan makes a good point about the nature of the heritage of the Dodgers and Giants. Besides the Cardinals, these two teams were the preeminent powers in the national league for the first half of the 20th century, and bitter rivals. The void they left in NY required the creation of the Mets. Mets fans seem wired a little different because of that -- I can't think of a real good comparison, but take any two bitter rivals in the same geographic vicinity in the same league or conference -- maybe Indiana and Purdue, or back in the day, the Bears and the Chicago Cardinals -- and have both teams relocate in the same year, and then replace them with a single new, vastly inferior team. Its like getting remarried after you've been divorced by the homecoming queen and remarrying a homely girl. Mets fans have a "second tier" concept to their fandom, an inferiority complex. Prior to 1969, this was a like the Cubs "loveable loser" concept, but I think since the Mets now have a history of post season success, its more like a "we're number 2, so we try harder" syndrome. Yankee fans consider the Mets "inferior," but I don't think Mets fans necessarily have chips on their shoulders about it.

My friends from New York also tell me that there is a tendency to fall into one of two categories of fans within New York because the New York area has two teams in just about every major sport. Chicago only has the Cubs and Sox, all other sports have a single representative. In New York, besides Mets/Yanks in baseball, there are the Giants/Jets in football, the Rangers/Islanders in Hockey, and the Knicks/Nets in Basketball. Purportedly, if you a fan of the Yankees, you tend to be a fan of the Giants, Knicks, and Rangers. If you're a Mets fan, you tend to root for the Islanders, Nets, and Jets. My NY friends claim this is pretty universal. The rivalries tend to run deep for everybody.

ws05champs
05-26-2007, 12:58 PM
A New Yorker once told me that Yankee fans concentrate on what they feel are their true rivals: the Red Sox an any other team is just not that relavant.

I'm not really sure when the fan rivalry started between the Sox and Cubs fans. I'm 54 and a life long Sox fan. I grew up around Addison and Pulaski and never really had the feeling when I was a kid that there was such a rivalry between Sox and Cubs fans. It was more like, "I'm a Sox fan, you're a Cubs fan we're not in the same league, everything's okay." It was like someone preferring yellow to green.

It may have been when the Cubs were broadcast on WGN and the Sox were on Sportsvision (or whatever it was called) that Sox fans began feeling neglected. I remember starting to feel bitter that although the Cubs were a worse team, they got more media attention. I think it has greatly intensified over the last few years when the Cubs failed to get into the World series and then we took it in '05.

DSpivack
05-26-2007, 02:49 PM
A New Yorker once told me that Yankee fans concentrate on what they feel are their true rivals: the Red Sox an any other team is just not that relavant.

I'm not really sure when the fan rivalry started between the Sox and Cubs fans. I'm 54 and a life long Sox fan. I grew up around Addison and Pulaski and never really had the feeling when I was a kid that there was such a rivalry between Sox and Cubs fans. It was more like, "I'm a Sox fan, you're a Cubs fan we're not in the same league, everything's okay." It was like someone preferring yellow to green.

It may have been when the Cubs were broadcast on WGN and the Sox were on Sportsvision (or whatever it was called) that Sox fans began feeling neglected. I remember starting to feel bitter that although the Cubs were a worse team, they got more media attention. I think it has greatly intensified over the last few years when the Cubs failed to get into the World series and then we took it in '05.

I think both teams failing to even make the World Series for decades made Chicago's rivalry much more intense, but this has also been buoyed by geography. New York's rivalry, as I understand it, is personal and not defined by geography; Chicago is North versus South.

That said, my dad grew up in Rogers Park and, while more of a Cub fan since he lived on the far north side, still went to his fair share of Sox games and never rooted against them.

WhiteSox5187
05-27-2007, 03:54 AM
A New Yorker once told me that Yankee fans concentrate on what they feel are their true rivals: the Red Sox an any other team is just not that relavant.

I'm not really sure when the fan rivalry started between the Sox and Cubs fans. I'm 54 and a life long Sox fan. I grew up around Addison and Pulaski and never really had the feeling when I was a kid that there was such a rivalry between Sox and Cubs fans. It was more like, "I'm a Sox fan, you're a Cubs fan we're not in the same league, everything's okay." It was like someone preferring yellow to green.

It may have been when the Cubs were broadcast on WGN and the Sox were on Sportsvision (or whatever it was called) that Sox fans began feeling neglected. I remember starting to feel bitter that although the Cubs were a worse team, they got more media attention. I think it has greatly intensified over the last few years when the Cubs failed to get into the World series and then we took it in '05.
I grew up surrouned by Sox fans, so for me the Cubs were just some team taht never did well when I was growing up...in my mid teen years I kinda stopped following baseball but for me 2003 really woke me up and (I think) kinda woke up baseball in this town. You had both the Sox and the Cubs. By that time I was in high school and there were a lot of Cub fans and there was this feeling of "Who ARE these people?" and they really did look down upon Sox fans, so that was kinda my "awakening" to the rivalry.

Having lived in New York for a year, there are some Met fans who have a real chip on their shoulder and feel like second class citizens because of the Yankees. Interleague play has kinda awoken that rivalry...But it took awhile for the Mets to gain a soft spot in the hearts of a lot of New Yorkers. Once the Dodgers and Giants left, fans of those teams just couldn't start rooting for the Yankees and they had a hard time rooting for the Mets at first, but anything was better than the Yankees. Ultimately, we're only in the third generation of Met fandom. In fifty years this rival will be as big as the Sox and Cubs.