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MisterB
03-29-2002, 03:58 PM
After seeing the Mike North thread and hearing for the umpteenth time how bad the Sox defense is, I decided to poke around and look at the numbers concerning fielding in the AL. Interestingly enough, I found a team with more errors than the Sox for each of the last two seasons, yet isn't talked about as a poor defensive club - the Oakland A's.

Now, granted they only had 1 more error than the Sox in 2000, but last year they had 7 more than us and I haven't heard any of the media here in the Bay Area harping on this fact, and none of the national media outlets seem to say boo about it either. Is it just because the Sox have had a couple of conspicuously poor fielders (Manos, Caballo) and it attracts more attention than a more uniformly mediocre fielding team? What are your thoughts on the perception of a team's overall defense?

baggio202
03-29-2002, 04:16 PM
the only guy i worry about on defense is lee...imo..he is the only guy that really costs the sox..and not with his errors but turning fly outs into doubles and triples...

the sox ..with this group..have proven its offense over defense..while im not a particular fan of that kind of baseball...its seems to work for this group so why chacge whats working??..bash our way to the division title

Mathew
03-29-2002, 04:20 PM
Tejada is a strange entity at SS in OakTown. He has a great arm and looked flashy throuh his younger years (how ever old he was) but seems to make some very bad decisions A la CWS of the decade. How do you rank his defence?

Cheryl
03-29-2002, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by baggio202
...bash our way to the division title

And get swept out of the first round of the playoffs. Again.

I'm sure the statheads on this board will correct me if I'm wrong, but is total team errors really a good way to judge the overall defensive capability of a team? I don't think so.

Mathew
03-29-2002, 04:26 PM
On your theme maybe so because Oakland likes the first round exit too.

Spiff
03-29-2002, 04:54 PM
Defensive stats for 2001....

FP = Fielding Pct = (A + PO) / (A + PO + E)
RnF = Range Factor = 9 x (A + PO)/ Inn

White Sox-------FP-------RnF-----
Konerko.......... .994 ....... 9.76
-AL 1B AVG..... .993 ....... 9.39
Durham........... .986 ....... 5.06
-AL 2B AVG..... .981 ....... 4.87
Clayton.......... .988 ....... 4.54
Valentin (SS).. .953 ....... 5.25
-AL SS AVG..... .973 ....... 4.49
Valentin (3B).... .926 ....... 3.03
-AL 3B AVG..... .947 ....... 3.03
Lee................ .969 ....... 2.15
-AL LF AVG...... .981 ....... 2.14
Lofton............. .981 ....... 2.67
-AL CF AVG...... .988 ....... 2.62
Ordonez.......... .983 ....... 2.01
-AL RF AVG...... .982 ....... 2.09

MisterB
03-29-2002, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by Mathew
Tejada is a strange entity at SS in OakTown. He has a great arm and looked flashy throuh his younger years (how ever old he was) but seems to make some very bad decisions A la CWS of the decade. How do you rank his defence?

When he first broke in he seemed to cover more ground, but was inconsistent with the glove. He's bulked up a little since then and seems a little slower, but steadier in the field. I'd say he's about average as shortstops go, not great but not bad.

kermittheefrog
03-29-2002, 05:28 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl


And get swept out of the first round of the playoffs. Again.

I'm sure the statheads on this board will correct me if I'm wrong, but is total team errors really a good way to judge the overall defensive capability of a team? I don't think so.

I'd say it's an absolutely horrendous way of looking at team defense. There are two ways I look at team defense. Batting average against the defense (i.e. what percentage of balls in play did they turn into outs) and for just outfield D there is ratio of extra base hits to other hits. These are good because a good defense turns batted balls into outs and a good outfield cuts down on extra base hits.

MisterB
03-29-2002, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


I'd say it's an absolutely horrendous way of looking at team defense. There are two ways I look at team defense. Batting average against the defense (i.e. what percentage of balls in play did they turn into outs) and for just outfield D there is ratio of extra base hits to other hits. These are good because a good defense turns batted balls into outs and a good outfield cuts down on extra base hits.

I agree team errors is a poor metric to use, but unfortunately it's what many people look at and base their judgements on. (BTW, anyone who wants to see how the Sox rank by the 'Fielding Efficiency' method that Kerm speaks of can look here. (http://www.highboskage.com/DAILIES/TEAMFE.HTM) ) More of my question is if so many people are using error totals to label a defense 'bad', why doesn't a team with more errors have a worse reputation for its defense?