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View Full Version : Randy Johnson versus Pedro Martinez: Who was better?


PKalltheway
05-23-2007, 12:26 AM
Between 1999 and 2002, Randy Johnson and Pedro Martinez were both absolutely SICK. The two most dominant pitchers during that time span (yes, I know that Roger Clemens went 20-3 in 2001). So my question to you is: between 1999 and 2002, who was better? Johnson or Pedro?

Here are their stats:
Randy Johnson
1999: 17-9, 271.7 innings pitched, 2.48 ERA, 364 strikeouts
2000: 19-7, 248.7 innings pitched, 2.64 ERA, 347 strikeouts
2001: 21-6, 249.7 innings pitched, 2.49 ERA, 372 strikeouts
2002: 24-5, 260 innings pitched, 2.32 ERA, 334 strikeouts
The Big Unit won the NL Cy Young in each of those four seasons.

Here's Pedro:
1999: 23-4, 213.3 innings pitched, 2.07 ERA, 313 strikeouts
2000: 18-6, 217 innings pitched, 1.74 ERA, 284 strikeouts
2001: 7-3 in 18 starts, 116.7 innings pitched, 2.39 ERA, finished with 163 strikeouts still.
2002: 20-4, 199.3 innings pitched, 2.26 ERA, 239 strikeouts
Pedro won the AL Cy Young in 1999 and 2000.

My vote goes to Johnson. Even though he was in the NL, his dominance was simply insane. 372 strikeouts are an insane total, NL or AL PERIOD. Pedro was hurt in 2001, but his 1999-2000, and 2002 totals are INSANE as well, and stack up very well against Johnson's. Who was better in your opinion?

Scottiehaswheels
05-23-2007, 12:33 AM
Interesting question... Based on the # of IP you see that RJ was not a recipient of a great offense in general for his wins(having to stay in the games longer). Where as Pedro seemed to consistently pitch 50 less or so innings in a league where there isn't the pitcher batting which should mean that he would stay in the games longer (unless of course the games were consistent blowouts)... That in turn leads me to believe the innings that RJ pitched were potentially more stressful to him as a pitcher as most likely he more often clinging to 1 or 2 run leads a lot of the time... I have to go with RJ there... Problem is also the ERA factor.... it is NL vs. AL... Can we just call this one a draw?

PKalltheway
05-23-2007, 12:44 AM
Can we just call this one a draw?
Haha, that would be too easy!:tongue: :redneck

Dan the Man
05-23-2007, 07:14 AM
Also an amazing number for Pedro in the 2000 season, his WHIP was 0.737 and he had 4 shutouts.

But I really think Randy was a little bit better. The huge frame with that mullet just scared the crap out of people. On an 0-2 count, you had no chance with that slider coming.

IndianWhiteSox
05-23-2007, 07:44 AM
Also an amazing number for Pedro in the 2000 season, his WHIP was 0.737 and he had 4 shutouts.

But I really think Randy was a little bit better. The huge frame with that mullet just scared the crap out of people. On an 0-2 count, you had no chance with that slider coming.

That's the reason why I voted Unit as well. Don't get me wrong, Pedro in his day could intimidate you, but do you want to face a 6'10" angry redneck with a fastball in triple digits with a moving slider?

:o:

RockyMtnSoxFan
05-23-2007, 10:48 AM
I have to go with Pedro because of the ERA and league differences. Plus, to me, a strikeout are the pitcher's equivalent of a home run: it's flashy and everybody makes a big deal about it, but in the end a strikeout is just another out. When you compare to league averages, Pedro was so far ahead of the pack that it was ridiculous. Johan at his best is not as good as was Pedro at his best, in my opinion. Also, if you check out BAA, Pedro was much better. His OPS allowed was only .472 in 2000! Randy was good, but not that good.

DSpivack
05-23-2007, 01:19 PM
I have to go with Pedro because of the ERA and league differences. Plus, to me, a strikeout are the pitcher's equivalent of a home run: it's flashy and everybody makes a big deal about it, but in the end a strikeout is just another out. When you compare to league averages, Pedro was so far ahead of the pack that it was ridiculous. Johan at his best is not as good as was Pedro at his best, in my opinion. Also, if you check out BAA, Pedro was much better. His OPS allowed was only .472 in 2000! Randy was good, but not that good.

Agreed; Pedro put up lower numbers in the AL. Granted, Johnson was a little more durable, but their seldom have been better pitchers, in their prime, than Pedro Martinez. He was flirting with sub-2.00 ERAs when the league average was around 5.00. Because of his extremely low ERA numbers in a offense-heavy era, he is the all-time career leader in ERA+ (which compares a pitchers ERA to that of the league average). That is simply ridiculous.

balke
05-23-2007, 01:53 PM
I like Pedro because of where he played and being in the AL. Great debate though. The guys are about equal. I'll just make it easier and take Clemens.

D. TODD
05-23-2007, 01:56 PM
Pedro!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

lostfan
05-23-2007, 02:12 PM
Randy Johnson was ridiculous for a long, long time, he had the pitches and the heat to go with. Pedro was a masterful pitcher for a while but I think RJ was consistently better for a long time, so I'm going with Johnson.

Hey, who can remember when the Mariners had A-Rod, the Big Unit, and Junior on their squad all at the same time? 3 future Hall of Famers in their primes. Man...

lostfan
05-23-2007, 02:16 PM
Oh and for the strikeouts comment being "just another out" that much is true, but for a hitter a strikeout is the worst possible scenario besides grounding into a DP because you can't do anything with it. You just walk back to the dugout. You don't advance runners on a grounder, you don't score someone on a sacrifice fly, nothing. That's why I was so impressed with Boone Logan (who to that point I couldn't stand to watch) when he punked out Morneau on 3 pitches with RISP.

RockyMtnSoxFan
05-23-2007, 02:48 PM
Oh and for the strikeouts comment being "just another out" that much is true, but for a hitter a strikeout is the worst possible scenario besides grounding into a DP because you can't do anything with it. You just walk back to the dugout. You don't advance runners on a grounder, you don't score someone on a sacrifice fly, nothing. That's why I was so impressed with Boone Logan (who to that point I couldn't stand to watch) when he punked out Morneau on 3 pitches with RISP.

I understand that there are situations where a strikeout can be very important. I am just saying that I think it can be overrated because it is a "sexy" stat, like home runs. Not that either is unimportant in today's game, but that people tend to look at those to stats to measure how effective a player is.

lostfan
05-23-2007, 02:50 PM
I understand that there are situations where a strikeout can be very important. I am just saying that I think it can be overrated because it is a "sexy" stat, like home runs. Not that either is unimportant in today's game, but that people tend to look at those to stats to measure how effective a player is.
I'll buy that. Johnson had a great deal of strikeouts but he also hit a lot of batters and walked guys too. So I agree, strikeouts (along with heat) tend to be overrated and people look at that as the end-all, be-all to a pitcher. If that was true, Mark Buehrle would be a nobody.

Fenway
05-23-2007, 03:05 PM
and to think the Expos had them both and let them get away. Pedro was the best I have seen. 99 was unreal.