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View Full Version : Did this team just turn it on or just co-ink-i-dink that Thome is back?


Frontman
05-22-2007, 10:22 PM
Man, if this team just held in there and didn't work as hard until Thome returned; I would be really annoyed. Does Jim's presence mean that much to the Sox players? If it does, Kenny Williams. Lifetime contract for Thome, from player to hitting coach.

Man, he gets back into the game and we score 28 runs in 3 games. And very few of those runs were the result of Thome's play.

What is going on with the Sox? Could it really be a case of low confidence that kept them from getting on/getting in/getting over?

Everyone sans Iguchi got a hit tonight.

I am rather glad to see Big Jim back, if that's all it took.

oeo
05-22-2007, 11:27 PM
Man, if this team just held in there and didn't work as hard until Thome returned; I would be really annoyed. Does Jim's presence mean that much to the Sox players? If it does, Kenny Williams. Lifetime contract for Thome, from player to hitting coach.

Man, he gets back into the game and we score 28 runs in 3 games. And very few of those runs were the result of Thome's play.

What is going on with the Sox? Could it really be a case of low confidence that kept them from getting on/getting in/getting over?

Everyone sans Iguchi got a hit tonight.

I am rather glad to see Big Jim back, if that's all it took.

It has nothing to do with how hard they were working. All I heard is they were busting ass to improve, they just weren't seeing the results. Thome changes the whole lineup. Paulie doesn't have to press to match his production, which means Dye doesn't have to either, AJ can move back down to the 6-spot, which means we don't have Mackowiak there, etc.

ilsox7
05-22-2007, 11:30 PM
And very few of those runs were the result of Thome's play.



I strongly disagree. Thome's presence has a massive impact up and down the line-up.

jcw218
05-23-2007, 12:17 AM
Thome's line score 3-3 2 runs 5 rbi 1bb

Here's the effect that Thome had on tonight's game

1st inning: with two outs Thome singles and extends the inning to Dye who hits a home run.

2nd inning: again with two outs, Thome doubles which drives in the 3rd and 4th runs of the inning, 5th and 6th of the game.

4th inning: Thome hits one out home run which scores the the White Sox' final three runs.

In summary, Thome had a hand in 60% of the Sox' runs scored tonight.

In general Thome's presence in the line-up lets everyone else relax and not have to worry about trying to replace the lost production

MRM
05-23-2007, 12:30 AM
Thome's line score 3-3 2 runs 5 rbi 1bb

Here's the effect that Thome had on tonight's game

1st inning: with two outs Thome singles and extends the inning to Dye who hits a home run.

2nd inning: again with two outs, Thome doubles which drives in the 3rd and 4th runs of the inning, 5th and 6th of the game.

4th inning: Thome hits one out home run which scores the the White Sox' final three runs.

In summary, Thome had a hand in 60% of the Sox' runs scored tonight.

In general Thome's presence in the line-up lets everyone else relax and not have to worry about trying to replace the lost production

No offense, but WOW.

One game completely sums up what Thome means?

Yesterday he was 0-4 but the team still scored 8 runs.

Sunday he was 0-1 as a pinch hitter when they scored 10 runs.

On Saturday, he was in the minors while the team was scoring 6 runs in a losing effort.

I can make arguments all day long for why the team is better with Thome in the lineup, but let's not give him all the credit for the offensive starting to come around.

ilsox7
05-23-2007, 12:32 AM
No offense, but WOW.

One game completely sums up what Thome means?

Yesterday he was 0-4 but the team still scored 8 runs.

Sunday he was 0-1 as a pinch hitter when they scored 10 runs.

On Saturday, he was in the minors while the team was scoring 6 runs in a losing effort.

I can make arguments all day long for why the team is better with Thome in the lineup, but let's not give him all the credit for the offensive starting to come around.

He doesn't deserve all of the credit, but he deserves a lot. Thome's presence goes way beyond his stats.

MRM
05-23-2007, 12:56 AM
He doesn't deserve all of the credit, but he deserves a lot. Thome's presence goes way beyond his stats.

I don't disagree with that. But lets not "blame" the recent offensive resurgence on Jim, either.

Navarro's Talent
05-23-2007, 01:33 AM
I think Thome means a whole lot to the offense. Thome walks a ton every season. So, even when he's not hitting, some pitchers are so scared to pitch to him that they'd rather walk around him. He gets on base and gets to the next hitter. The Dye homerun is a perfect example of this.

Unblyleven Bread
05-23-2007, 02:04 AM
He doesn't deserve all of the credit, but he deserves a lot. Thome's presence goes way beyond his stats.

He's a 1.000 ops guy, it's just like getting Frank back from an injury back in the day. We should be expected to improve dramatically by his addition alone and if the bats in general are starting to heat up then we could be on a six runs per game clip here for a while.

oeo
05-23-2007, 02:17 AM
No offense, but WOW.

One game completely sums up what Thome means?

Yesterday he was 0-4 but the team still scored 8 runs.

Sunday he was 0-1 as a pinch hitter when they scored 10 runs.

On Saturday, he was in the minors while the team was scoring 6 runs in a losing effort.

I can make arguments all day long for why the team is better with Thome in the lineup, but let's not give him all the credit for the offensive starting to come around.

See my post above on how he takes pressure off the rest of the lineup.

And he was not 0-1 on Sunday, he walked in that AB, and it was a huge one with two outs. The Sox went on to score 6 of their 10 runs after that.

There are two guys in which I think make our lineup the best it can be: Pods and Thome. You can't argue with Pods because we have an unbelievable winning percentage when he's leading off in the last few years; and just having Thome in the lineup relieves some pressure on our other big guns.

IndianWhiteSox
05-23-2007, 04:24 AM
Man, if this team just held in there and didn't work as hard until Thome returned; I would be really annoyed. Does Jim's presence mean that much to the Sox players? If it does, Kenny Williams. Lifetime contract for Thome, from player to hitting coach.

Man, he gets back into the game and we score 28 runs in 3 games. And very few of those runs were the result of Thome's play.

What is going on with the Sox? Could it really be a case of low confidence that kept them from getting on/getting in/getting over?

Everyone sans Iguchi got a hit tonight.

I am rather glad to see Big Jim back, if that's all it took.

Star impact. No one wants to face a lineup like that, with Thome healthy.

hose
05-23-2007, 06:21 AM
Some of these guys were way over due to breakout, but Thome keeps the line up moving by getting on base all the time.

Now if we can just get Crede in the line up and sit Pablo as much as possible.

RedHeadPaleHoser
05-23-2007, 06:41 AM
I am glad to see them hitting. Whatever it is, be it lineup, water, order of who gets dressed first, etc...I don't care.

Just KEEP IT UP, and in truckload quantities!!!!

jabrch
05-23-2007, 06:58 AM
Must be Walker's fault.

Jurr
05-23-2007, 07:08 AM
I don't disagree with that. But lets not "blame" the recent offensive resurgence on Jim, either.
Nah, this offense was showing steady signs of waking up before Jim came back. His return, though, couldn't have come at a better time, because it just adds to the confidence that this offense was already building.

The stars are beginning to align.

ondafarm
05-23-2007, 08:13 AM
Thome adds several things to the lineup.

First, as a left-handed power bat, he adds a dimension that was entirely missing. The other lefties are decent hitters but not real power threats. Adding another power threat just makes the lineup that much more powerful.

Second, he forces the pitcher to throw a lot of pitches. Like Big Frank, forcing a lot of pitches wears down a pitcher. In a typical game he may force a dozen more pitches than his replacement. That means an inferior relief pitcher appears an inning earlier.

Third, just by being on-base he divides a pitcher's concentration for the next guy. Not a great stolen base threat but a guy to watch. Some pitchers hate to pitch from the stretch.

Fourth, as a veteran prescence, he is more intelligent about hitting than most of his teammates. This knowledge gets passed to his teammates whether before game or mid-game.

Fifth, just as a good teammate, he keeps guys loose and relaxed, something needed in a clubhouse.

Frontman
05-23-2007, 08:33 AM
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Third, just by being on-base he divides a pitcher's concentration for the next guy. Not a great stolen base threat but a guy to watch. Some pitchers hate to pitch from the stretch.

Fourth, as a veteran prescence, he is more intelligent about hitting than most of his teammates. This knowledge gets passed to his teammates whether before game or mid-game.

Fifth, just as a good teammate, he keeps guys loose and relaxed, something needed in a clubhouse.

Thanks ondafarm. This was some of the things I was considering that Thome had on a lineup. I was a fan that, while I thought it would be great to get him back, I didn't think just pinch hitting in one game would open up the floodgates. I think with him being on the bench Sunday, he definately gives the team confidence and gets them to relax.

After all the Ozzie/AJ stuff Friday, I think that's what the team needed. The big teddy bear who just crushes that ball out to right.

tebman
05-23-2007, 08:37 AM
Thome adds several things to the lineup.

First, as a left-handed power bat, he adds a dimension that was entirely missing. The other lefties are decent hitters but not real power threats. Adding another power threat just makes the lineup that much more powerful.

Second, he forces the pitcher to throw a lot of pitches. Like Big Frank, forcing a lot of pitches wears down a pitcher. In a typical game he may force a dozen more pitches than his replacement. That means an inferior relief pitcher appears an inning earlier.

Third, just by being on-base he divides a pitcher's concentration for the next guy. Not a great stolen base threat but a guy to watch. Some pitchers hate to pitch from the stretch.

Fourth, as a veteran prescence, he is more intelligent about hitting than most of his teammates. This knowledge gets passed to his teammates whether before game or mid-game.

Fifth, just as a good teammate, he keeps guys loose and relaxed, something needed in a clubhouse.
I've thought the same thing, but I don't have the on-the-field experience that ondafarm has. Ondafarm summarizes nicely what I've noticed: that opposing pitchers tend to throw more pitches when Thome's in the lineup and that the rest of the batting order seems more relaxed at the plate. The first observation can be measured in pitch count and sequence, and the second is just an impression I get watching the games, but I'm convinced that both are very real factors.

KW knew exactly what he was doing when he arranged the deal to bring Thome to the White Sox. He makes the whole batting order better just by being there.

infohawk
05-23-2007, 08:52 AM
He doesn't deserve all of the credit, but he deserves a lot. Thome's presence goes way beyond his stats.
An example. Even in games where he doesn't get a hit or drive in a run, Thome causes opposing pitchers to run their pitch counts up faster. That has an effect at some point in the game. The players still have to capitalize, but they get more hacks at a tired pitcher sooner in the game and maybe get into the other team's bullpen faster. Actually, the three headed monster of Thome-Dye-Konerko compliment each other to that extent. This allows the Uribe's, Cintron's and Pierzynski's to get better balls to hit. Thome isn't going to single-handedly win games, but I would agree that his presence adds something substantial to the Sox lineup.

jenn2080
05-23-2007, 09:44 AM
No offense, but WOW.

One game completely sums up what Thome means?

Yesterday he was 0-4 but the team still scored 8 runs.

Sunday he was 0-1 as a pinch hitter when they scored 10 runs.

On Saturday, he was in the minors while the team was scoring 6 runs in a losing effort.

I can make arguments all day long for why the team is better with Thome in the lineup, but let's not give him all the credit for the offensive starting to come around.


Took the words out of my mouth.

soxfan13
05-23-2007, 09:54 AM
I agree Thome has some to do with the recent break out but the bats started to come around before he was inserted back into the line-up. Whatever it is keep it up :gulp:

chisoxfanatic
05-23-2007, 10:00 AM
It has a lot to do with the fact that he is still referred to as a feared hitter around the league. Pitchers have to constantly have him in the back of their minds. It truly does affect how they're going to be approaching other hitters. In addition, with him in the lineup, we don't have to have an extra "automatic out" in the lineup. I was talking with the other season ticket holders around me at the game last night, and they were all pretty much in agreement with this.

itsnotrequired
05-23-2007, 10:06 AM
It has a lot to do with the fact that he is still referred to as a feared hitter around the league. Pitchers have to constantly have him in the back of their minds. It truly does affect how they're going to be approaching other hitters. In addition, with him in the lineup, we don't have to have an extra "automatic out" in the lineup. I was talking with the other season ticket holders around me at the game last night, and they were all pretty much in agreement with this.

He is not referred to as a feared hitter. The fact is that he is a feared hitter.

:cool:

Iwritecode
05-23-2007, 10:08 AM
I think it's a combination of things. Most of the things have already been mentioned. Having him back relieves some of the pressure from the rest of the lineup so they aren't pressing so much. It gets guys like Mac and Ozuna out of the DH position.

Another part is that this team was due to break out of their slump anyway. There was no way they were going to be the last in the league in hitting that much longer.

One more thing could have to do with the pitchers they have faced recently. Zambrano hasn't been pitching all that well and neither has Cotts (or anyone in the Cubs bullpen for that matter). The A's starter yesterday was making his first ML start. They should be lighting guys like that up.

RowanDye
05-23-2007, 10:40 AM
One more thing could have to do with the pitchers they have faced recently. Zambrano hasn't been pitching all that well and neither has Cotts (or anyone in the Cubs bullpen for that matter). The A's starter yesterday was making his first ML start. They should be lighting guys like that up.

Well, four out of the next five pitchers we'll see have been pretty lights out this year so I think we'll put your theory to test.

Gaudin (3-1, 2.94)
Shields (3-0, 2.94)
Kazmir (2-2, 3.81)
Santana (5-4, 3.05)

Kazmir hasn't been as good as the other three this year, but we know he's still going to be tough.

I'd be pretty happy with three out of the next five.

ondafarm
05-23-2007, 10:46 AM
I think it's a combination of things. Most of the things have already been mentioned. Having him back relieves some of the pressure from the rest of the lineup so they aren't pressing so much. It gets guys like Mac and Ozuna out of the DH position.

Another part is that this team was due to break out of their slump anyway. There was no way they were going to be the last in the league in hitting that much longer.

One more thing could have to do with the pitchers they have faced recently. Zambrano hasn't been pitching all that well and neither has Cotts (or anyone in the Cubs bullpen for that matter). The A's starter yesterday was making his first ML start. They should be lighting guys like that up.

Actually, his 34th career MLB start
Lewis (http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=407890)

but same difference.

SBSoxFan
05-23-2007, 10:47 AM
Actually, his 34th career MLB start
Lewis (http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=407890)

but same difference.

And he struck out 10 in a start against the Sox in '03. :o:

hawkjt
05-23-2007, 12:06 PM
Well, four out of the next five pitchers we'll see have been pretty lights out this year so I think we'll put your theory to test.

Gaudin (3-1, 2.94)
Shields (3-0, 2.94)
Kazmir (2-2, 3.81)
Santana (5-4, 3.05)

Kazmir hasn't been as good as the other three this year, but we know he's still going to be tough.

I'd be pretty happy with three out of the next five.


yes, once again, santana does not miss the sox by one freaking game.. would not mind missing him in a series ...and then we get boof who is their second best pitcher.. I contend that at least some of our problems is facing too many quality starters the first 40 games and not enough lewis'..

tampa should be beatable on paper but with those starters.. we could go right back into our hitting funk tonite and stay there thru the next 5-6 games.. and toronto is getting hot lately (7-3 in last ten) so while we do miss halladay.. burnett is hot now..nothing easy in the AL..

Iwritecode
05-23-2007, 12:17 PM
Actually, his 34th career MLB start
Lewis (http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_stats_player.jsp?c_id=mlb&playerID=407890)

but same difference.

I read that he had just come up from AAA so I assumed... :redface:

Wow, a career ERA over 7. The point I was making still stands. The Sox should be lighting guys like that up. :wink: