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WizardsofOzzie
05-21-2007, 12:00 PM
And guess who's back??

4. Ken Griffey Jr. to the White Sox
Griffey didn't shown any willingness to go to New York when the opportunity materialized. But maybe Chicago's more to his liking. It's a nice city with a nice team that still should have a chance, something that has eluded the Reds regularly. It's finally time to thrown in the towel on the great Griffey trade to his hometown team, an annual albatross for the also-running Reds.

The White Sox have been hurt by the injury to Jim Thome and could use the left-handed power Griffey provides. Griffey (eight homers, 26 RBIs, .297) is having a fine year. But he'd be much better off having the DH option, which could limit his own well-known propensity for pain.
So let me get this straight. We are going to make a trade because our NOT oft-injured DH strained his ribcage for another DH (he probably wouldn't play the field often with his injury history) who has serious injury tendencies. :dunno:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_heyman/05/21/monday.scoop/index.html?eref=si_topstories

twentywontowin
05-21-2007, 12:01 PM
I'd gladly take Griffey, but not for Thome.

102605
05-21-2007, 12:01 PM
:hawk

"Where's he gonna play?"

WizardsofOzzie
05-21-2007, 12:05 PM
I'd gladly take Griffey, but not for Thome.
I don't think they meant we would trade Thome but rather to replace his "lack of production" due to being injured. This of course makes no sense because Griffey is hurt 3X more than Thome every season

tstrike2000
05-21-2007, 12:29 PM
Not gonna happen unless Thome gets injured for the rest of the season. And even IF that happened, it probably still wouldn't happen.

Foulke You
05-21-2007, 12:32 PM
If this offense does not wake up by June, I wouldn't mind seeing KW add an big bat like Griffey. He would be a huge risk at his age and his recent problems staying healthy but there is no denying that he is still an impact player who could be a difference maker in a pennant chase. An outfield of Griffey, Erstad, and Dye would be pretty solid. I also wouldn't mind seeing the Sox check into the availablity of Alex Rios on the Blue Jays.

102605
05-21-2007, 12:35 PM
Griffey would be nice to have in LF if we don't have to overpay.

102605
05-21-2007, 12:36 PM
I also wouldn't mind seeing the Sox check into the availablity of Alex Rios on the Blue Jays.

I don't know his contract situation but I wouldn't think the Jays would want to move him. Let's hope though, Rios is solid!

UserNameBlank
05-21-2007, 12:57 PM
Didn't the Sox reportedly offer up a package including Brandon McCarthy and Chris Young in 2005? If that wasn't enough to get a deal done, I don't know what is.

Griffey would look great in the 2 or 3 spot and would be an incredible improvement over Pods, but I'd hate to see the Sox part with Gio for that, especially since Mark could be gone after this year. I think Gio is pretty much untouchable anyway.

If the Reds would consider, I'd do Floyd + Broadway + any minor league reliever + MacDougal/Thornton in a heartbeat, and that would really deepen their pitching staff (which includes Kyle Lohse starting and Mike Stanton relieving. David Weathers is also in their pen, and he is doing well, but is old and shouldn't have much more left). Broadway seems to be raising his stock with the development of his 2-seamer, and there are several relievers in our minor leagues who could step up and provide more than Mike Stanton right now.

Lip Man 1
05-21-2007, 01:02 PM
If memory serves the deal was shot down not because of what the Sox offered but because the Reds owner didn't want to get ripped apart by the fans at that time. He was concerned over a backlash.

The circumstances surrounding the situation may have changed in the ensuing two years.

Lip

UserNameBlank
05-21-2007, 01:12 PM
If memory serves the deal was shot down not because of what the Sox offered but because the Reds owner didn't want to get ripped apart by the fans at that time. He was concerned over a backlash.

The circumstances surrounding the situation may have changed in the ensuing two years.

Lip
Hopefully it did. I remember at the time a lot of Reds fans were pissed that the deal didn't happen because they wanted to move forward with the team. The Sox could easily offer a package better than what the Reds got for Lopez + Kearns last year wiithout really hurting the team.

Actually, for once a Griffey to the Sox trade idea seems to really make sense for both parties. The Sox have the pitching that the Reds need and the Reds have the OF that the Sox need. Plus a Griffey to the Sox trade would make a possible JD departure hurt a lot less.

mrfourni
05-21-2007, 01:13 PM
:hawk

"Where's he gonna play?"

That still cracks me up

duke of dorwood
05-21-2007, 01:46 PM
This means its a matter of minutes until Bruce Vineline says its very close

FedEx227
05-21-2007, 01:48 PM
This means its a matter of minutes until Bruce Vineline says its very close

Us discussing it = a done deal to LeVineline.

Honestly, I wouldn't be too mad about this deal. Griffey has been pretty impressive so far this year and would look great in either Left or Center (move Erstad to left or Griffey to left, either way). Right now hes batting .297/.404/.531, 8 HR, 26 RBI. But most of all he's walked 25 times this year and is showing a great amount of plate discipline.

With that being said, I would also have no problem with Alex Rios, but both of these guys are dependant on the asking price. Gio Gonzalez cannot be moved. I would probably be okay parting with Broadway, but I'd love for us to hold onto the lefty Gonzalez especially with the questions of Buehrle's future.

Foulke You
05-21-2007, 01:51 PM
If memory serves the deal was shot down not because of what the Sox offered but because the Reds owner didn't want to get ripped apart by the fans at that time. He was concerned over a backlash.

The circumstances surrounding the situation may have changed in the ensuing two years.

Lip
I'd have to think the circumstances have definitely changed. The Reds are still bad and Griffey is getting older every year. He just doesn't fit that team's makeup anymore. They are rebuilding with young players and Griffey belongs on a team that has a chance to go to the postseason. I agree with UserNameBlank, for once, a Griffey to the Sox trade could make sense for both parties.

DSpivack
05-21-2007, 01:56 PM
I'd have to think the circumstances have definitely changed. The Reds are still bad and Griffey is getting older every year. He just doesn't fit that team's makeup anymore. They are rebuilding with young players and Griffey belongs on a team that has a chance to go to the postseason. I agree with UserNameBlank, for once, a Griffey to the Sox trade could make sense for both parties.

Don't they also have quite a few OF prospects? Or maybe that was a couple years ago with Kearns and others.

palehozenychicty
05-21-2007, 01:56 PM
I'd have to think the circumstances have definitely changed. The Reds are still bad and Griffey is getting older every year. He just doesn't fit that team's makeup anymore. They are rebuilding with young players and Griffey belongs on a team that has a chance to go to the postseason. I agree with UserNameBlank, for once, a Griffey to the Sox trade could make sense for both parties.


What nobody really mentioned was that the ownership group in Cincy has changed. They need all the players to build with for Hamilton, Bailey, Harang, Phillips, etc. Trading Griffey to be a DH/3rd outfielder would be huge.

FedEx227
05-21-2007, 01:59 PM
Don't they also have quite a few OF prospects? Or maybe that was a couple years ago with Kearns and others.

They aren't as great as they once were. There we banking on Denorfia being a stud, which obviously hasn't happened (he's now with Oakland).

They have a couple of guys Jay Bruce, BJ Szymanski and Chris Dickerson, but they are nowhere near what they were 3-4 years ago when the yhad Dunn, Griffey, Kearns, Pena and a bevy of great minor league OFers.

oeo
05-21-2007, 02:05 PM
Griffey would be nice to have in LF if we don't have to overpay.

Until he hurts himself two weeks later and is out for the season. Griffey isn't worth it; if we want to get younger, he's not the answer.

eriqjaffe
05-21-2007, 02:10 PM
I like how the article kinda back-handedly compliments Bobby Jenks, implying that he is, in fact, a somewhat better closer than Joe Borowski...

And maybe it's just because he plays for Washington, but I had no idea that Jon Rauch became a serviceable reliever.

palehozenychicty
05-21-2007, 02:22 PM
I like how the article kinda back-handedly compliments Bobby Jenks, implying that he is, in fact, a somewhat better closer than Joe Borowski...

And maybe it's just because he plays for Washington, but I had no idea that Jon Rauch became a serviceable reliever.


He's been pretty solid for them the last couple of years. If he hadn't betrayed the trust of Kenny Norris, we could definitely use him in the pen. He can't be any worse than Mac right now, even with the league switch.

FedEx227
05-21-2007, 02:23 PM
I like how the article kinda back-handedly compliments Bobby Jenks, implying that he is, in fact, a somewhat better closer than Joe Borowski...

And maybe it's just because he plays for Washington, but I had no idea that Jon Rauch became a serviceable reliever.

He's doing pretty decent, his greatest accomplishment is he's REALLY cutting down on walks.

3.70 ERA/.904 WHIP

17 hits, 24.3 innings, 10 ER, 2 homers allowed

16 Ks to 5 walks

Tragg
05-21-2007, 02:27 PM
We need young talent. And frankly, we should get him for a B prospect if we pay his salary.

As for Rauch, I don't think we traded him because he couldn't pitch.

Jjav829
05-21-2007, 02:28 PM
Until he hurts himself two weeks later and is out for the season. Griffey isn't worth it; if we want to get younger, he's not the answer.

I think the asking price for Griffey is probably going to be as low as it has ever been this season, even with his production to date.

It all depends on how Kenny views the situation. Does he look at our good starting pitching, power arms in the pen and still potentially good offense and decide another bat might be all we need to make a strong run? Or does he look at the inconsistent bullpen, struggling offense and depth in young pitching and decide that this maybe isn't our year, and it's better to keep all the young arms and maybe try to add a young hitter by trading away an impending free agent like Buehrle or Dye? Neither would surprise me, and frankly, I have a feeling based on his actions this past offseason that Kenny might be inclined to go with the latter choice.

UserNameBlank
05-21-2007, 02:29 PM
Until he hurts himself two weeks later and is out for the season. Griffey isn't worth it; if we want to get younger, he's not the answer.
I disagree. If Griffey could be had for a couple of our young future #4/#5 starters - who would be better suited in the NL anyway, a minor league reliever or two of which we have several, and one of our older relievers (I think the Sox should sell high on both Thornton and MacDougal since they are 30 and signed to long, very reasonable contracts), the Sox wouldn't be trading anything really valuable for the future. I'd take my chances with Masset as a starter down the road over any of Floyd/Broadway/McCullogh/Haeger/Phillips and as far as relievers go, I have no doubt KW will continue striking gold with projects in that area. That is and always has been his specialty.

UserNameBlank
05-21-2007, 02:44 PM
I think the asking price for Griffey is probably going to be as low as it has ever been this season, even with his production to date.

It all depends on how Kenny views the situation. Does he look at our good starting pitching, power arms in the pen and still potentially good offense and decide another bat might be all we need to make a strong run? Or does he look at the inconsistent bullpen, struggling offense and depth in young pitching and decide that this maybe isn't our year, and it's better to keep all the young arms and maybe try to add a young hitter by trading away an impending free agent like Buehrle or Dye? Neither would surprise me, and frankly, I have a feeling based on his actions this past offseason that Kenny might be inclined to go with the latter choice.
Kenny could go either way but I'd be willing to bet that any moves he makes will be to improve the team this year. If anything, I think he'll do like he did in 2003 and make some additions if necessary, even if the Sox are more than a few games out.

Dye, Buehrle, and Iguchi are FA after this year. IIRC, so are Mack and Pods. Crede, Garland, AJ, and Thome IIRC have one more year after this under contract. I could see KW using 2007 as his last stand with the core group and making any additions he can so long as they don't cost us our better prospects (i.e. Gio, Fields, Sweeney, Egbert, Carter, Lucy, Valido, Russell). If he can't turn 2007 into a title team, I could see him making a serious rebuilding effort over the offseason where most of the core is traded away.

soxinem1
05-21-2007, 03:08 PM
I vote no on this. This team needs to get younger, not more injury prone. Plus, CIN would want us to pick up the salary. If they want to pay his contract and take someone like Logan or Floyd, fine.

The long-range plan with Griffey as part of it does not seem to fit right.

With several large possible holes in the 2008 line up, why add an injury-plagued near 40 OF?

If anything, should the Sox fall out of contention, we may be shedding a few grey-beards ourselves.

What the 2007 White Sox really need is to combine good pitching with good hitting. When they do that, adding Griffey will not need to be an option.

balke
05-21-2007, 04:11 PM
From where the Sox stand right now, they are sellers not buyers. I think that kind of move would be awesome if the Sox were 2nd in the division. I read that KFFL reported Pods to be 2 days away from practice. I think with 4 solid bats in the lineup we'd be a great lineup (w/ Griffey in left). I also think we'll be a much better team with speed at the top of the order.

Here's to hoping the Sox go on a run til July. They need to hit the gas.

ondafarm
05-21-2007, 04:28 PM
Sure, Griffey would be helpful, but at what cost? That'd determine if I liked the deal or not.

IlliniSox4Life
05-21-2007, 04:33 PM
Griffey would be nice to have in LF if we don't have to overpay.

Exactly my thoughts.

From where the Sox stand right now, they are sellers not buyers. I think that kind of move would be awesome if the Sox were 2nd in the division. I read that KFFL reported Pods to be 2 days away from practice. I think with 4 solid bats in the lineup we'd be a great lineup (w/ Griffey in left). I also think we'll be a much better team with speed at the top of the order.

Here's to hoping the Sox go on a run til July. They need to hit the gas.

:rolleyes:
The Sox are 4.5 games out of the division in May. That hardly makes them sellers. If we get hot for a week or two and Detroit/Cleveland gets kind of cold, we're in first place.

balke
05-21-2007, 04:54 PM
The Sox are 4.5 games out of the division in May. That hardly makes them sellers. If we get hot for a week or two and Detroit/Cleveland gets kind of cold, we're in first place.


That's true, but right now I don't see Kenny running out to make a deal when Thome just got back, and Pods is potentially coming back soon. 4.5 games is a lot this early in the season. This isn't a good division to fall behind in.

Also, as a team the Sox are in a position where they will be trading if they fall too far behind. I think they are the best or at least as good as anyone when healthy. They haven't been healthy, and they have been slumping.

If they can get back in the lead by July and they still have LF issues, that's when I'd be thinking Griffey.

oeo
05-21-2007, 04:56 PM
I disagree. If Griffey could be had for a couple of our young future #4/#5 starters - who would be better suited in the NL anyway, a minor league reliever or two of which we have several, and one of our older relievers (I think the Sox should sell high on both Thornton and MacDougal since they are 30 and signed to long, very reasonable contracts), the Sox wouldn't be trading anything really valuable for the future. I'd take my chances with Masset as a starter down the road over any of Floyd/Broadway/McCullogh/Haeger/Phillips and as far as relievers go, I have no doubt KW will continue striking gold with projects in that area. That is and always has been his specialty.

So we're going to trade away a third of the back of our bullpen (as well as our surplus of young pitching) for an oft-injured outfielder? No thank you.

Griffey's a great hitter, but he doesn't fit into this team's needs (although his bat would be nice in LF, his injury problems trump that). 2005 was different where he would be the DH...we already have a DH, now, though. And I'm not ready to stick him in LF and watch him hurt himself while we just gave up Thornton/MacDougal (dumb).

102605
05-21-2007, 05:04 PM
Until he hurts himself two weeks later and is out for the season. Griffey isn't worth it; if we want to get younger, he's not the answer.


I agree but for the 2007 championship season he would help.

oeo
05-21-2007, 05:06 PM
I agree but for the 2007 championship season he would help.

If he has a season-ending injury right afterwards, how does that help? He cannot stay healthy, and therefore he is not worth it.

eastchicagosoxfan
05-21-2007, 06:39 PM
Not gonna happen unless Thome gets injured for the rest of the season. And even IF that happened, it probably still wouldn't happen.
If Thome does get hurt for the season, or will be out for a while, any chance a certain DH in Toronto could find his way back to Chicago?

JB98
05-21-2007, 07:00 PM
If Thome does get hurt for the season, or will be out for a while, any chance a certain DH in Toronto could find his way back to Chicago?

No, the bridges are burned between Frank and KW.

UserNameBlank
05-21-2007, 08:18 PM
So we're going to trade away a third of the back of our bullpen (as well as our surplus of young pitching) for an oft-injured outfielder? No thank you.

Griffey's a great hitter, but he doesn't fit into this team's needs (although his bat would be nice in LF, his injury problems trump that). 2005 was different where he would be the DH...we already have a DH, now, though. And I'm not ready to stick him in LF and watch him hurt himself while we just gave up Thornton/MacDougal (dumb).
This year could be our last hurrah as it is. If Buehrle and Dye walk and are not replaced by players of equal quality, you can pretty much forget the Sox contending next year.

I have no problem getting an impact player for young, low ceiling players who likley aren't going to contribute in a meaningful way anyway.

Thornton and MacDougal are anchors in our pen, but they are relievers and relievers are the biggest crapshoot in baseball. Considering both of these guys are 30 years old and locked up for the next few years with reasonable deals, they would have a lot of value in a trade. I have no problem with the Sox selling these guys high.

All that said, I was just throwing something out there. I don't know what Griffey would cost or if he is even available, and maybe it wouldn't even cost that much, but if he is available he would be a great fit. If it came down to it, I'd rather have Aardsma/Logan and Griffey over MacDougal/Thornton and Pods.

And speaking of players with injury history, how is our left fielder doing right now? At least Griffey provides something when he's not on the DL.

Foulke You
05-24-2007, 05:16 PM
This year could be our last hurrah as it is. If Buehrle and Dye walk and are not replaced by players of equal quality, you can pretty much forget the Sox contending next year.

I have no problem getting an impact player for young, low ceiling players who likley aren't going to contribute in a meaningful way anyway.
Excellent point about it being a last hurrah for this core if we don't go deep in the playoffs. Another long postseason run in 2007 could go a long way towards JR and KW finding the funds to lock up Buehrle, Dye, and Iguchi for future seasons. It worked after the 2005 season. We re-signed Paulie for big bucks, picked up another high salary pitcher in Vazquez, brought Thome via trade, and signed Garland and Contreras to extensions. I doubt that happens without a World Series. The WS trophy changes the economics of a team.

If Griffey gives our offense that extra "oomph" that it needs to win the division, we need to explore that option if their demands are within reason. Herm Schneider is one of the best trainers in MLB. If anyone can keep Griffey off the DL and extend his career, it's him.

Another reason to be proactive about landing an impact player like Griffey is that our AL Central competition is certainly going to be sniffing around for that final impact player at the deadline. I'd rather have Griffey hitting HRs for the Sox than the Twins, Tigers, or Indians.

Brian26
05-24-2007, 08:41 PM
:hawk

"Where's he gonna play?"


He's going to play in leftfield! We finally have a spot for him!

oeo
05-24-2007, 08:47 PM
Thornton and MacDougal are anchors in our pen, but they are relievers and relievers are the biggest crapshoot in baseball. Considering both of these guys are 30 years old and locked up for the next few years with reasonable deals, they would have a lot of value in a trade. I have no problem with the Sox selling these guys high.

I do. Unless you have valid replacements lined up (and we don't have replacements for either inside the organization), Griffey's not going to be able to help when our bullpen cannot hold a lead. Sorry, but you don't fill a hole by creating new ones, and that's exactly what a trade like this would do.

He's going to play in leftfield! We finally have a spot for him!

The spot better suited for Griffey would be to DH, and we already have one of those. Again, in 2005 this made more sense than it does now.

UserNameBlank
05-24-2007, 09:30 PM
I do. Unless you have valid replacements lined up (and we don't have replacements for either inside the organization), Griffey's not going to be able to help when our bullpen cannot hold a lead. Sorry, but you don't fill a hole by creating new ones, and that's exactly what a trade like this would do.



The spot better suited for Griffey would be to DH, and we already have one of those. Again, in 2005 this made more sense than it does now.

Aardsma or Logan could take over for MacDougal or Thornton. We have Wassermann and Vasquez from the left side and Bukvich and Day from the right side in AA and AAA right now.

Our bullpen is going to get better as time goes by. The only one who worries me is Sisco because the strikezone jumps around on him all the time, but everyone else should be pretty good. The Cubs series was more a fluke than a true indication of what to expect out of these guys. Not everyone is going to step up to the plate and hit the first pitch they see hard somewhere.

Griffey would be fine in LF. It's not like he'd be dodging boulders, tripping over thorny bushes and trying to run around giant steel spikes sticking up out of the outfield grass. And if he did get injured, well, that's what happens. Hell, if Griffey half-assed everything he did in LF he'd still get much better reads on the ball than Platoono Mackzuna does right now.

lakeviewsoxfan
05-24-2007, 09:39 PM
No Thank You.

Maracucho
05-25-2007, 06:51 AM
Attached what I posted a few days ago on
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/05/heymans_propose.html

"I for one, am not a big fan of Jon Heyman. This is the guy that actually said that the Cardinals made a mistake by not giving 8 million a year to Jeff Weaver. Yep, Jeff Weaver, he of the 14.32 ERA.

In any case, I really don't understand why so many writers propose trades in which the White Sox get another left handed hitter. This year, The Sox are OPSing .699 vs RHP and .605 against LHP.

While I know, that this is a relatively small sample size, if you look at the three year stats for the Sox players with the most at bats this year (and still on the roster), you see that between 2004 and 2006 this hitters OPS .753 against LHP and .799 against RHP. That being said, the current roster hits better against RHP.

This is important because in the AL central (minus the Sox) there are currently 11 RH and 9 LH SPs, so with the unbalanced schedule it is quite important to be able to hit LHs. Particularly Cleveland and Detroit, the teams ahead of the Sox, have three LH SPs each.

If you look at the values, the biggest splits are for players that hit better against RHP. In the splits for the players that do better against LHP the largest one is Pablo Ozuna at -0.129 and followed by Dye and Konerko at -.083 and -.074. These are quite small compared to Thome’s (.356), Mackowiak (.226) and Pierzynski (.183)

---------------------------------vs-LHP------------vs-RHP----------------RHP-LHP
Darin Erstad--------------------0.630---------------0.746------------------- “ 0.116”
Paul Konerko------------------0.964---------------0.890------------------“ -0.074”
Jermaine Dye------------------0.941---------------0.858------------------“ -0.083”
Joe Crede------------------------0.783---------------0.764------------------“ -0.019”
A.J. Pierzynski----------------0.601---------------0.784----------------- “ 0.183”
Tadahito Iguchi---------------0.763---------------0.784-----------------“ 0.021”
Juan Uribe-----------------------0.758---------------0.745------------------“ -0.013”
Rob Mackowiak--------------0.548---------------0.774-----------------“0.226”
Alex Cintron--------------------0.694---------------0.685------------------“-0.009”
Pablo Ozuna--------------------0.773---------------0.644------------------“-0.129”
Jim Thome-----------------------0.726---------------1.082-----------------“0.356”
Scott Podsednik----------------0.645---------------0.698-----------------“0.053”

Thus, now that Thome has returned from the DL The Sox offense should improve against RHP.

The sad thing is that if you look at the current roster, against LHP the Sox should play Ozuna in left, and either Erstad (with the .630 OPS against LHP) or Terrero (who OPSed .313 in only 16 at bats against LHP this year, but I didn’t look at historical minor league splits for him).

If you ask me, the Sox need someone who can hit LHP. Let’s see if Griffey Jr. fills that need.

---------------------------------vs-LHP------------vs-RHP----------------RHP-LHP
Griffey Jr. --------------------0.761----------------.936---------------- “ 0.175”

So basically, Griffey’s OPS against LHP for the past three years is lower than Pablo Ozuna’s, and even though he would be an improvement over Erstad/Terrero to me he would probably cost too much in terms of either salary or prospects."

oeo
05-25-2007, 11:35 AM
Aardsma or Logan could take over for MacDougal or Thornton. We have Wassermann and Vasquez from the left side and Bukvich and Day from the right side in AA and AAA right now.

None of these guys would replace our back end. None of Jenks, Thornton, or MacDougal should go anywhere. I can't believe you think Logan could step into Thornton's role (he can only handle his current one on special occasions), and Aardsma may be able to step into a set-up role in another year, but I sure as hell don't want to test Mr. Inconsistency right now.

Our bullpen is going to get better as time goes by. The only one who worries me is Sisco because the strikezone jumps around on him all the time, but everyone else should be pretty good. The Cubs series was more a fluke than a true indication of what to expect out of these guys. Not everyone is going to step up to the plate and hit the first pitch they see hard somewhere.I agree with this...but you still do not trade away the back end of your bullpen, especially when your options to replace them are not as good.

Griffey would be fine in LF. It's not like he'd be dodging boulders, tripping over thorny bushes and trying to run around giant steel spikes sticking up out of the outfield grass. And if he did get injured, well, that's what happens. Hell, if Griffey half-assed everything he did in LF he'd still get much better reads on the ball than Platoono Mackzuna does right now.This is something that happens every year. When you make a trade for Griffey, you take this into consideration. So if Griffey does get hurt, now what do we have? Still no LF and crappy back end of the bullpen (which ends up making the whole damn thing bad) like last year, which in turn gives us no postseason. To top it all off, we have to watch Griffey get hurt for two more years (joy).

skottyj242
05-25-2007, 11:41 AM
Would he play left? I would take him in a heart beat. Can you envision a lineup of: Erstad, Gooch, Thome, Paulie, Dye, Junior, Crede, AJ, Uribe? I would take that over pretty much anybody in the league.

Foulke You
05-25-2007, 12:23 PM
I do. Unless you have valid replacements lined up (and we don't have replacements for either inside the organization), Griffey's not going to be able to help when our bullpen cannot hold a lead. Sorry, but you don't fill a hole by creating new ones, and that's exactly what a trade like this would do.



The spot better suited for Griffey would be to DH, and we already have one of those. Again, in 2005 this made more sense than it does now.
Griffey is not a DH. Last I checked, there is no DH in the NL. He plays in the outfield just about every day in Cincy these days. If the asking price is too high and creates holes in our team, I doubt KW will pull the trigger. However, if Griffey could be had for some prospects, than you have to take a hard look at this move to improve our offense.

oeo
05-25-2007, 01:00 PM
Griffey is not a DH. Last I checked, there is no DH in the NL. He plays in the outfield just about every day in Cincy these days. If the asking price is too high and creates holes in our team, I doubt KW will pull the trigger. However, if Griffey could be had for some prospects, than you have to take a hard look at this move to improve our offense.

I'm not stupid, I know there's no DH in the NL. :rolleyes:

He's 37-years-old and injury prone (he actually is, unlike a lot of people said Dye was). He needs to become a DH so he can at least prolong his career. I'm not ready to give anything up, unless it's garbage (which won't happen), to watch what we all know will happen: he'll end up on the DL. Yes it would be nice to have him in the lineup, and then when he gets hurt, we got screwed over the back end of our bullpen, or prospects, or whatever the hell we gave up.

It's not worth it. In his current 9-year contract with the Reds, the most games he's ever played was 145, and that was the very first season...since then he's only gotten to 128 at most, and has had 4 seasons with under 100 games.

UserNameBlank
05-25-2007, 02:30 PM
It's not worth it. In his current 9-year contract with the Reds, the most games he's ever played was 145, and that was the very first season...since then he's only gotten to 128 at most, and has had 4 seasons with under 100 games.
...which is why his asking price should be pretty low, certainly much, much lower than a younger player without all that inury history like an Adam Dunn. How low will it be? Who knows, but if it's low enough to where it doesn't cost any of our better prospects, I'd have to say make the deal.

Actually, it is also possible that it wouldn't even cost anyone out of our pen. Depending on how much salary KW would want the Reds to eat, he might be available for a few decent but unspectacular pitching prospects.

Here's a little blurb on his contract from mlb4u.com: 9-Year worth 116.5M- he will make between 2000 and 2008 a salary of 12.5M each year- + in 2000, 5.5M of salary deferred till 2009- + deal includes 2009 Team Option or a 4M buyout- + 6.5M annually of 2001-2009 salaries deferred to subsequent years between 2009 and 2024 at 4% interest
That's kind of hard to understand but to me it sounds like there is an out for the team after '08 and we'd only be paying him $6mil each year. If KW could get the Reds to pick up a good portion of the deferred amounts for '07-'09 (19.5mil in total), say ten mil, we could get him at 6mil/season and the other 9.5 would come off in small chunks over the course of the next 17 years.

That sounds like a pretty sweet deal to me! We'd have a LF capable of hitting 30+ HR's for about the cost of a Mackzuna platoon. That would enable us to go out and get a big name FA or re-sign one of Buehrle/Dye.

Also on being a DH, the Sox have Thome through next year with an option on the '09 season for $13mil. There is also a buyout attached to that so depending on what his health situation looks like, Thome could be with us only through next year. After that, Griffey could move to DH for the last year of his contract, assuming the option was picked up.

Jjav829
05-28-2007, 11:22 AM
That several baseball executives expect those old Ken Griffey Jr.-to-the-White Sox trade talks to pick up again this summer as the Reds continues to sink in the standings. But a few believe it could actually be the Red Sox who end up making a play for the future Hall of Fame center fielder. He'd be a downgrade defensively from Coco Crisp, but he'd certainly solidify an already strong Boston lineup.

Link (http://www.nj.com/columns/ledger/graziano/index.ssf?/base/columns-0/1180240107218120.xml&coll=1&thispage=4)

UserNameBlank
05-28-2007, 05:03 PM
Link (http://www.nj.com/columns/ledger/graziano/index.ssf?/base/columns-0/1180240107218120.xml&coll=1&thispage=4)
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Boston is going to get everyone. There is no such thing as a productive player signing with or getting traded to a team other than the Red Sox or Yankees.

Under that comment is a little blurb on the Reds bullpen. I have to think that the Sox could offer up a better package than Boston could, even without adding a high ceiling starter. We have several pen guys and several ready or near-ready starters in the minors that can help them right now.

Jump on it, Kenny.

whitesoxfan
05-28-2007, 05:13 PM
Link (http://www.nj.com/columns/ledger/graziano/index.ssf?/base/columns-0/1180240107218120.xml&coll=1&thispage=4)
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We need him this year. In 05 and 06, our offense was already strong enough where we ultimately really didn't need to go after him. I'm a huge Griffey fan and still believe the guy can make a difference in any lineup. Plus it will take Mack and Terrero out of the lineup everyday.

Thome25
05-28-2007, 05:19 PM
I'd rather see us get a gamer like Ryan Freel from Cincy rather than another base-clogging HR hitter in Griffey.

whitesoxfan
05-28-2007, 05:23 PM
I'd rather see us get a gamer like Ryan Freel from Cincy rather than another base-clogging HR hitter in Griffey.

Freel had a pretty serious injury today. He was removed from the field on a stretcher and sent to a local hospital.

Thome25
05-28-2007, 05:26 PM
Freel had a pretty serious injury today. He was removed from the field on a stretcher and sent to a local hospital.

Well scratch that idea then. Did he get injured because of his hustle?

whitesoxfan
05-28-2007, 05:34 PM
Well scratch that idea then. Did he get injured because of his hustle?

Yeah, he got hurt trying to make a diving catch on the warning track and his head made a nasty hit on the track. It really didn't look good at all.

Foulke You
05-30-2007, 01:16 AM
I'm not stupid, I know there's no DH in the NL. :rolleyes:

He's 37-years-old and injury prone (he actually is, unlike a lot of people said Dye was). He needs to become a DH so he can at least prolong his career. I'm not ready to give anything up, unless it's garbage (which won't happen), to watch what we all know will happen: he'll end up on the DL. Yes it would be nice to have him in the lineup, and then when he gets hurt, we got screwed over the back end of our bullpen, or prospects, or whatever the hell we gave up.

It's not worth it. In his current 9-year contract with the Reds, the most games he's ever played was 145, and that was the very first season...since then he's only gotten to 128 at most, and has had 4 seasons with under 100 games.
Another thing to take into consideration is that the Sox have a pretty good training staff. Herm Schneider gets those guys back on the field in a short period of time. The Sox also usually rank tops in the bigs in the "lost man-hours" category for injured players. Also, the way Ozzie rests guys and shuffles the lineup, I'm willing to bet we could get a full season out of Griffey if the proper precautions are taken.

As I said, I'm not for this trade if we have to give up a top tier prospect like Josh Fields to get him but if he can be had for less, it would be a huge shot in the arm to this lineup. Griffey may be injury prone but weigh the positives here too. He is a hitter who has 574 HRs, 2458 hits, 1638 RBIs, .556 slg%, and a .291 career avg. It is almost like adding another Jim Thome to the lineup. I for one would salivate at the thought of Thome, Dye, Griffey, and Konerko batting in succession. Not to mention the mental boost to the team of having a future HOFer join the ballclub.

FedEx227
05-30-2007, 09:43 AM
I'd rather see us get a gamer like Ryan Freel from Cincy rather than another base-clogging HR hitter in Griffey.

Yeah, who needs a highly-productive, future hall of famer. When we can get a gamer like Ryan Freel. Exactly how does getting another "GAMER" on this team help us? We need a guy who actually puts tangible results on the field, not someone who just "games".

Frater Perdurabo
05-30-2007, 10:11 AM
If in one month (June 30 or so) the Sox remain within striking distance, I would support acquiring Griffey for the right price.

If during the month of July the addition of Griffey sparks the team, we'll see the results on the field and the Sox will be in a position to acquire bullpen help.

If during the month of July the Sox don't perform well, they still have time to trade Dye and other parts to re-load for next year. For 2008, Griffey would give the Sox the power-hitting OF to offset the youth of Anderson (CF) and Sweeney (RF), as well as someone who could DH when Thome is not available.