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View Full Version : What is with Hawk's love fest for Aramis Ramirez?


It's Time
05-20-2007, 11:53 PM
Calling him one of the premier players in EITHER LEAGUE today nearly made me cover my ears. Am I missing something here?:?:

FedEx227
05-20-2007, 11:57 PM
Calling him one of the premier players in EITHER LEAGUE today nearly made me cover my ears. Am I missing something here?:?:

I almost crapped myself after E-5 ERRORamis Ramirez booted a ball at 3rd and DJ proclaimed the ball had to have been hit hard because "he can play some 3rd base". Um, no.... he can't.

MUsoxfan
05-21-2007, 12:00 AM
Calling him one of the premier players in EITHER LEAGUE today nearly made me cover my ears. Am I missing something here?:?:

In fairness to Hawk, his league is full of watered-down talent:cool:

It's Time
05-21-2007, 12:02 AM
Thank you. I will say he is to them what Carlos Lee was to the White Sox. He absolutely kills the Sox. That said, one of the premier and clutch hitters in the game?

FedEx227
05-21-2007, 12:03 AM
In fairness to Hawk, his league is full of watered-down talent:cool:

But E-5 isn't anywhere near the top 3rd basemen in the NL. I'd personally take David Wright, Miguel Cabrera and Ryan Zimmerman over him anyday.

eriqjaffe
05-21-2007, 12:06 AM
"he can play some 3rd base". Um, no.... he can't.Sure he can, as long as he doesn't have to move more than 8 inches to either side of 3rd base.

It's Time
05-21-2007, 12:06 AM
But E-5 isn't anywhere near the top 3rd basemen in the NL. I'd personally take David Wright, Miguel Cabrera and Ryan Zimmerman over him anyday.

Who said 3rd baseman? Hawk is calling him one of the premier players in ALL of Baseball.

MUsoxfan
05-21-2007, 12:08 AM
But E-5 isn't anywhere near the top 3rd basemen in the NL. I'd personally take David Wright, Miguel Cabrera and Ryan Zimmerman over him anyday.


Indeed. He's probably in the top 1/3 of all position players in the NL

FedEx227
05-21-2007, 12:12 AM
Indeed. He's probably in the top 1/3 of all position players in the NL

Exactly. Pretty tough to be a premiere player in both leagues when you are probably the 4th or 5th best player AT YOUR POSITION in the NL.

AJ Hellraiser
05-21-2007, 12:59 AM
Thank you. I will say he is to them what Carlos Lee was to the White Sox. He absolutely kills the Sox. That said, one of the premier and clutch hitters in the game?

You are right, now I know what Cubs fans must have felt each time El Caballo came to the plate for us... every time Ramirez comes to the plate I hate him and I am scared that he's going to do something big...

I am sure glad Contreras didn't pitch today because Ramirez OWNS him... I don't know how i can find his career numbers against Jose but I gurantee they are eye-popping

skobabe8
05-21-2007, 07:40 AM
He said the exact same things for Aramis he says for Manny...clutch hitter, especially in the 7th, 8th, 9th, ...premier power hitter, ....etc. Aramis is notorious for piling up his stats in non-clutch situations.

eriqjaffe
05-21-2007, 08:26 AM
Aramis is notorious for piling up his stats in non-clutch situations.Keeping the traditions of Sammy Sosa alive for a new generation of Cubs fans!

Iwritecode
05-21-2007, 09:59 AM
You are right, now I know what Cubs fans must have felt each time El Caballo came to the plate for us... every time Ramirez comes to the plate I hate him and I am scared that he's going to do something big...

I am sure glad Contreras didn't pitch today because Ramirez OWNS him... I don't know how i can find his career numbers against Jose but I gurantee they are eye-popping

He's 3-7 with 6 RBIs lifetime vs. Jose but they are all homeruns. Looks like 2 solo shots and one granny.

jabrch
05-21-2007, 10:50 AM
Ramirez defense is MUCH better than it was 3 years ago. He's no gold-glover, but he is actually somewhere around league average these days.

He has hit .290+/.350+/.560+ for 3 years in a row, and is on similar pace this year. Is he one of the 5 best players in the game? Nope. Is he one of the 5 best 3B in the game? Maybe. Given what they have done this season, you can't say he's not performing better than Crede.

DEFINITELY Better 3Bs So Far in 2007
ARod
Cabrerra
Chipper
Lowell

Arguable
Wright

Definitely Worse
Casey Blake (CLE)
Nick Punto (MIN)
Alex Gordon (KC)
Brandon Inge (DET)
AND ALL THE REST

Aramis would look nice on this team during the period of time when nobody else could hit. If he were wearing Silver and Black, we'd find a way to ignore some of his shortcomings. (He's not one to run very hard on popups or ground outs)

AJ Hellraiser
05-21-2007, 11:20 AM
Ramirez defense is MUCH better than it was 3 years ago. He's no gold-glover, but he is actually somewhere around league average these days.

He has hit .290+/.350+/.560+ for 3 years in a row, and is on similar pace this year. Is he one of the 5 best players in the game? Nope. Is he one of the 5 best 3B in the game? Maybe. Given what they have done this season, you can't say he's not performing better than Crede.

DEFINITELY Better 3Bs So Far in 2007
ARod
Cabrerra
Chipper
Lowell

Arguable
Polanco
Wright

Definitely Worse
All the rest

Aramis would look nice on this team during the period of time when nobody else could hit. If he were wearing Silver and Black, we'd find a way to ignore some of his shortcomings. (He's not one to run very hard on popups or ground outs)


Polanco is the Tigers' everyday 2B, Inge plays 3B... but your point is well taken

jabrch
05-21-2007, 11:59 AM
Polanco is the Tigers' everyday 2B, Inge plays 3B... but your point is well taken

That's right - my bad...will update.

I'd take Aramis over Inge for sure.

The Immigrant
05-21-2007, 12:17 PM
He sure hits the snot out of the ball against us. Both he and Lee deserve all of the praise they get.

SOXPHILE
05-21-2007, 12:23 PM
He is a very good player. The problem with him is he's lazy, and has a 10 cent brain. He has a reputation of not running out plays, one notible example was last year when he turned an almost certain triple into a sliding, nearly tagged out double, in which Johnny Baker defended him to the media. Then, just last week, he hit a high drive off the wall at Shea Stadium, and stood there at the plate admiring it. When it didn't leave the park, he had to run his ass up to first base, turning an easy double into a single. When he was with the Pirtates, he was also known to make some baseball-stupid moves on defense too, but I think he might have gotten better.

Foulke You
05-21-2007, 12:50 PM
One of the few knowledgable Cub fans I know told me that Ramirez is a great hitter but his fielding is below average. He doesn't catch all the balls he should catch and his throwing arm is not very accurate. Ramirez would probably have twice as many errors if he didn't have a gold glove first baseman in Lee catching all of his off the mark throws.

MeteorsSox4367
05-21-2007, 01:01 PM
The thing that surprised me about Hawk's love for Ramirez is that Ramirez doesn't seem to be the kind of blue-collar player (i.e. Grudzielanek) who makes Hawk salivate.

From watching baseball and having one of my close friends who's a Cub fan second my opinion, I always thought Ramirez was a dog. He could hit the hell out of the ball when he was interested, but didn't hustle worth a damn.

WSox597
05-21-2007, 04:49 PM
DJ proclaimed the ball had to have been hit hard because "he can play some 3rd base"

I caught that line too, I said "What?" at that one. Are we talking about Aramis Rodriguez, the guy who takes balls off his forehead? That Rodriguez?

Heck of a hitter, mostly brain-dead otherwise. Even Cub fans I know, and I mean fans, not drunken frat boys, aren't wild about the whole picture there. He was called error-miss when he first came over from the Pirates to the Cubs.

He is better than he was, but certainly not a better fielder than Crede. Not on his best day.

jabrch
05-21-2007, 05:04 PM
He is better than he was, but certainly not a better fielder than Crede. Not on his best day.

Nobody said he was.

But he is a vastly superior hitter to Joe, even if both are 100% healthy.

sullythered
05-21-2007, 09:04 PM
[quote=jabrch;1580516]Ramirez defense is MUCH better than it was 3 years ago. He's no gold-glover, but he is actually somewhere around league average these days.
quote]
Didn't a pop-up bounce off his head last year?

WSox597
05-22-2007, 04:30 PM
But he is a vastly superior hitter to Joe, even if both are 100% healthy.

Can't argue that, I mentioned he was "a heck of a hitter."

TDog
05-22-2007, 04:45 PM
In fairness to Hawk, his league is full of watered-down talent:cool:

Has been since the Hawk retired to join the Tour.

jabrch
05-23-2007, 10:01 AM
[quote=jabrch;1580516]Ramirez defense is MUCH better than it was 3 years ago. He's no gold-glover, but he is actually somewhere around league average these days.
quote]
Didn't a pop-up bounce off his head last year?

Yes - but an isolated instance is really not a good baseline to judge him. He has very limited range, but most 3B do. He has decent hands - you don't see him boot too many (better hands than Pablo). His arm is strong, but sometimes erratic. All in all, he's middle of the pack. Nowhere close to Crede, Chavez, etc, but he's not awful anymore. In Pittsburgh, he was one of the worst everyday defensive 3B in the game.

Tragg
05-23-2007, 10:59 AM
Ramirez is a good player. Not worth his $12 million or whatever it is, but he's good. You can get by with stone-feet 3rd basemen. It would help though if the rest of your infield can play defense and let stone feet cover the lines...unfortunately for the Cubs, they consistently play poor infield defense and poor up the middle defense in general, that Ramirez looks worse than he perhaps is.

jabrch
05-23-2007, 11:02 AM
Ramirez is a good player. Not worth his $12 million or whatever it is, but he's good. You can get by with stone-feet 3rd basemen. It would help though if the rest of your infield can play defense and let stone feet cover the lines...unfortunately for the Cubs, they consistently play poor infield defense and poor up the middle defense in general, that Ramirez looks worse than he perhaps is.

Izturis has been bad this season - but he's usually more surehanded. Playing Theriot at SS has been an awful idea. You are right - with more dependable SS play, Aramis would look less bad. Having Lee (a GG calibre 1B) surely helps him out.