PDA

View Full Version : *Official* 5-19-07 Sox Lose Postgame Thread


Brian26
05-19-2007, 06:46 PM
Joe Girardi's a pretty decent announcer.

SOXandILLINI
05-19-2007, 06:47 PM
Joe Girardi's a pretty decent announcer.
he'd be an even better manager in a sox uniform.

itsnotrequired
05-19-2007, 06:47 PM
I only post in post-game threads with misspelled titles.

102605
05-19-2007, 06:47 PM
Boone Logan is not a MLB pitcher.

SOXandILLINI
05-19-2007, 06:47 PM
Boone Logan is not a MLB pitcher.
ya think

Brian26
05-19-2007, 06:48 PM
I only post in post-game threads with misspelled titles.

Hahaha :thumbsup:

BeviBall!
05-19-2007, 06:48 PM
I only post in post-game threads with misspelled titles.

That's looser mentality!

lowestofthelow
05-19-2007, 06:48 PM
Even when we went up in the 8th,for some reason I had no confidence we were going to hold the lead. Our inability to score that extra run in the 8th might have had somrthing to do with it...And is Thorton injured? Why Boone Logan instead of him?

chisoxfanatic
05-19-2007, 06:48 PM
:puking:

Well, they still haven't won the World Series since 1908!!!!!

Blueprint1
05-19-2007, 06:48 PM
That was a waste of time.

soxfanatlanta
05-19-2007, 06:49 PM
Just read the box score - thank God I did not get to see these guys get pummeled; I would have eaten my left arm.
:angry:

cbotnyse
05-19-2007, 06:49 PM
:angry:

Thats all I got.

Cellview22
05-19-2007, 06:50 PM
I hate loosing like this, especially in Chicago in front of a World Series-like atmosphere.

Frontman
05-19-2007, 06:50 PM
Logan against Lee? Methinks that situation favored the Cubs no matter what.

I'm just disgusted with the team right now. The Sox are playing with their heads on screwy. Plain and simple, I can see the lead off triple dropping in, Dye was playing pretty far towards center. So why the blankety-blank-blank was he still that far over a few batters later?

The bullpen and pretty lousy fielding by Dye allowed this game to get out of hand.

WSox597
05-19-2007, 06:50 PM
he'd be an even better manager in a sox uniform.

Hear, hear! From your lips to the ears of Jerry.

And as an added bonus, the players and the fans would be able to understand the manager. That would be a nice change.

Brian26
05-19-2007, 06:51 PM
Even when we went up in the 8th,for some reason I had no confidence we were going to hold the lead. Our inability to score that extra run in the 8th might have had somrthing to do with it...And is Thorton injured? Why Boone Logan instead of him?

That at-bat by Sweeney in the 8th, when we still had a huge run sitting in scoring position, was god-awful bad. He looked completely overmatched.

kevingrt
05-19-2007, 06:51 PM
All i can say is poop.

LongLiveFisk
05-19-2007, 06:51 PM
What a **** effort today.

If we get swept by these jerks, I'll :puking:

SOXandILLINI
05-19-2007, 06:51 PM
Hear, hear! From your lips to the ears of Jerry.

And as an added bonus, the players and the fans would be able to understand the manager. That would be a nice change.
isn't joe from venezuela too?.....:cool:

SpartanSoxFan
05-19-2007, 06:52 PM
I'm already getting a billion text messages on my phone from my stupid flubbie-loving friends. Thanks, guys....:angry:

sox1970
05-19-2007, 06:52 PM
I'm ready for the Charlotte Shuttle to start running. Bring up Carlos Vasquez and Ryan Bukvich.

Cellview22
05-19-2007, 06:53 PM
isn't joe from venezuela too?.....:cool:

Aren't they both from Poland?

BoysMom3
05-19-2007, 06:53 PM
Aw, that hurt - really, really bad!!!! I just yelled as loud as I could when that granny was hit. Unstinkin'believable.

Unblyleven Bread
05-19-2007, 06:53 PM
:sweep

BeviBall!
05-19-2007, 06:53 PM
:angry:

Here's to you Mr. flaming, red face man. On days like this you get more play than an 80s tape recorder. You pop up more than a groundhog parade. I look better if you copy and paste me 10x! Yes, Mr. flaming, red face man, this bud light's for you!

Brian26
05-19-2007, 06:53 PM
So why the blankety-blank-blank was he still that far over a few batters later?

The bullpen and pretty lousy fielding by Dye allowed this game to get out of hand.

Those balls down in the corner can't be cut off.

Be pissed at Dye for grounding into a doubleplay earlier in the game with the bases loaded.

Frontman
05-19-2007, 06:54 PM
he'd be an even better manager in a sox uniform.

We already have an out of control tempered manager. Nice idea, though. But that's just moving deck chairs around. The Titanic is still sinking.

itsnotrequired
05-19-2007, 06:54 PM
:sweep

:dtroll:

(Bigfoot's son)

DeuceUnit
05-19-2007, 06:55 PM
Good thing we have Masset starting tomorrow.

slowlearner
05-19-2007, 06:55 PM
Anyone think this looks like a playoff team?

I'm just pissed off. :angry:

Unblyleven Bread
05-19-2007, 06:55 PM
:dtroll:

(Bigfoot's son)

I have no son.

infohawk
05-19-2007, 06:55 PM
Even when we went up in the 8th,for some reason I had no confidence we were going to hold the lead. Our inability to score that extra run in the 8th might have had somrthing to do with it...And is Thorton injured? Why Boone Logan instead of him?
Same here. I have the same feeling about this team that I did last year. Good, but flawed. The only difference is that this year the pitching has been good (last two games excluded) and the offense is just bloody awful. I still like our pitching, but this offense needs some more speed and flexibility. In a way, the roster is too similar to the 2001-2004 squads. Lot's of good hitters, but also lot's of pull and power hitters prone to slump.

Frontman
05-19-2007, 06:56 PM
Those balls down in the corner can't be cut off.

Be pissed at Dye for grounding into a doubleplay earlier in the game with the bases loaded.

That too, but he could at least run like he, you know, gives a rat's patooie that he could get the ball back in prior to the runner getting to second. He just runs.....sort of, to get to the ball.

eriqjaffe
05-19-2007, 06:56 PM
Guh.

Did we secretly switch bullpens sometime Thursday night?

A.T. Money
05-19-2007, 06:56 PM
They had a lead in the 7th yesterday and now today in the 8th, and the bullpen blew up both times.

Somehow you knew Lee was going to hit a homerun.

Why didn't Ozzie go get Jenks?

Was out-managed again.

Frontman
05-19-2007, 06:56 PM
Anyone think this looks like a playoff team?

I'm just pissed off. :angry:

No, it doesn't. It looks like a team hoping that upon's Thome's return, all will be well; and that's just magical thinking at this point.

HotelWhiteSox
05-19-2007, 06:57 PM
Logan against Lee? Methinks that situation favored the Cubs no matter what.

I thought Lou was a dumb hire, but he's taken Ozzie to school this weekend. It's not all on Ozzie, but man.

Brian26
05-19-2007, 06:57 PM
Anyone think this looks like a playoff team?


Right now, no. But there's enough talent here to definitely be a playoff team once the injuries heal, the bats heat up, and the minor league guys get sent back to Charlotte.

Frontman
05-19-2007, 06:58 PM
They had a lead in the 7th yesterday and now today in the 8th, and the bullpen blew up both times.

Somehow you knew Lee was going to hit a homerun.

Why didn't Ozzie go get Jenks?

Was out-managed again.

When Logan threw the second ball, I told my wife, "He's walking Lee and a run in, or he's going to put one right into the wheelhouse and Lee's taking it out of here."

Two pitches later, guess what happened.

I'm so disappointed in this, that we need to win tomorrow and sweep them at the Cell to shut up the Flubbie fans.

Unblyleven Bread
05-19-2007, 06:59 PM
Right now, no. But there's enough talent here to definitely be a playoff team once the injuries heal, the bats heat up, and the minor league guys get sent back to Charlotte.

I don't think so. I don't mean to be captain poo poo here but my magic 8 ball says outlook not so good. I see another third place finish.

Brian26
05-19-2007, 06:59 PM
That too, but he could at least run like he, you know, gives a rat's patooie that he could get the ball back in prior to the runner getting to second. He just runs.....sort of, to get to the ball.

I thought Dye was hustling.

The guy who is an absolute bum in the field is Soriano. The hotdog one-handed catch and his loafing into the corner to pick up Iguchi's double just looked terrible.

JB98
05-19-2007, 06:59 PM
I thought Lou was a dumb hire, but he's taken Ozzie to school this weekend. It's not all on Ozzie, but man.

Whenever you end up with Logan against Lee with the bases loaded in the eighth inning, your manager has been schooled.

The game was already lost before that though. Aardsma blew it, and I have to admit I would have used him in that situation myself.

BoysMom3
05-19-2007, 06:59 PM
I'm already getting a billion text messages on my phone from my stupid flubbie-loving friends. Thanks, guys....:angry:

Ouch. That hurts too. I'm feeling for ya.

Since you never know who could be reading here, I won't say that I let my high school junior stay home yesterday to watch the game, but if I did, come the 7th inning, he would have been angrily texting his Sox fan friend - who I won't say stayed home for the game either.

BeviBall!
05-19-2007, 07:00 PM
Right now, no. But there's enough talent here to definitely be a playoff team once the injuries heal, the bats heat up, and the minor league guys get sent back to Charlotte.

Unfortunately, there's that whole Cleveland and Detroit thing.

It's head-scratching how inept the offense has become... then, we get 5 runs off of one of the best pitchers in the league so far this year, and our pitching takes a dump. This reeks of August-September 2006.

We need Thome and Pods to be contenders.

DickAllen72
05-19-2007, 07:00 PM
Hate to say it, but the better team (right now) won today.

The Cubs spent a lot of money to bring in talent to fill holes. They may have "overspent" but they knew that the only way to acquire what they needed was to pay over reasonable market value. They also spent a lot of money to bring in a real manager.

Too bad JR may never do that for KW. It'd be nice to know that KW would be allowed to bring in some big name talent in the next month or two even if it would mean overpaying a bit. The Sox have no one in their minor league system that can help them turn this season around.

It'd be a shame to let this window close without giving the team a legitimate shot at another title just because of a few bucks. If Sox ownership can't afford to play by today's crazy financial realities, they should "get out of the kitchen, JR!" :cool:

HotelWhiteSox
05-19-2007, 07:00 PM
No, it doesn't. It looks like a team hoping that upon's Thome's return, all will be well; and that's just magical thinking at this point.

Well, we had Thome in April and went .500. We've blown some of these games lately for reasons that have nothing to do with Thome's injury, just finding ways to lose.

vegyrex
05-19-2007, 07:01 PM
Our bullpen is not very good. We had the lead twice and couldn't hold it.

Our guys need to do some soul searching, there is no excuse for this.

The cubs are not that good.

JB98
05-19-2007, 07:01 PM
Well, we had Thome in April and went .500. We've blown some of these games lately for reasons that have nothing to do with Thome's injury, just finding ways to lose.

It's definitely true that JT can't pitch and protect a lead in the seventh or eighth inning. These problems won't all go away with his return.

HotelWhiteSox
05-19-2007, 07:01 PM
Hate to say it, but the better team (right now) won today.

The Cubs spent a lot of money to bring in talent to fill holes. They may have "overspent" but they knew that the only way to acquire what they needed was to pay over reasonable market value. They also spent a lot of money to bring in a real manager.

Too bad JR may never do that for KW. It'd be nice to know that KW would be allowed to bring in some big name talent in the next month or two even if it would mean overpaying a bit. The Sox have no one in their minor league system that can help them turn this season around.

It'd be a shame to let this window close without giving the team a legitimate shot at another title just because of a few bucks. If Sox ownership can't afford to play by today's crazy financial realities, they should "get out of the kitchen, JR!" :cool:

You should do yourself a favor and look up payroll numbers

Cellview22
05-19-2007, 07:02 PM
During the bottom half of every inning today, I was a nervous wreck.. until the bottom of the 8th. I actually felt confident with Aardsma on the mound. I felt he could at least get a few outs until Jenks came in. For the first time, I felt relaxed, I didn't mute the audio, and then just when I felt we might come through, Aardsma gives up a triple.. :angry:

We had 6 freakin runs today, and still can't get the win? Unbelievable!

Brian26
05-19-2007, 07:02 PM
I don't think so. I don't mean to be captain poo poo here but my magic 8 ball says outlook not so good. I see another third place finish.

My only frustration right now is that we're not getting beat with our best guys on the field. Part of that is due to injuries, and part of that is due to poor managerial decisions. Hopefully it gets turned around soon.

I disagree with the Aardsma and Logan bullpen calls today, but I still respect Ozzie.

BeviBall!
05-19-2007, 07:03 PM
You should do yourself a favor and look up payroll numbers

My guess is he's talking the lack of signing big ticket free agents because the Sox have spent the money in-house.

Wsoxmike59
05-19-2007, 07:03 PM
http://lifeinthemiddle.typepad.co.uk/life_in_the_middle/images/pissed_off.gif

:angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

DickAllen72
05-19-2007, 07:04 PM
That at-bat by Sweeney in the 8th, when we still had a huge run sitting in scoring position, was god-awful bad. He looked completely overmatched.
He certainly looked better at the plate before Walker had a chance to tweak his stance to give him more power.

And this was supposedly their best prospect. I don't even want to hear about Josh Fields for at least two more years.

JB98
05-19-2007, 07:05 PM
My only frustration right now is that we're not getting beat with our best guys on the field. Part of that is due to injuries, and part of that is due to poor managerial decisions. Hopefully it gets turned around soon.

I disagree with the Aardsma and Logan bullpen calls today, but I still respect Ozzie.

Just curious, who would you have used to start the eighth? Thornton?

I admit I would have gone with Aardsma. No ****ing way Logan should have seen the light of day in this game.

Brian26
05-19-2007, 07:05 PM
Hate to say it, but the better team (right now) won today.

They are not the better team. Ozzie got outmanaged today.

Unblyleven Bread
05-19-2007, 07:05 PM
My only frustration right now is that we're not getting beat with our best guys on the field. Part of that is due to injuries, and part of that is due to poor managerial decisions. Hopefully it gets turned around soon.

I disagree with the Aardsma and Logan bullpen calls today, but I still respect Ozzie.

You're a better man than me. If you ask me, this guy doesn't know what he's doing. I can't believe this is the same guy who won the World Series two years ago. The Macdougal thing yesterday was beyond comprehension, I need not go into that. Logan is the last guy I want in a close game against the Cubs. And today, Aardsma of course lays an dinosaur egg but where has he been lately? He was kind of set up to fail. That's what Ozzie seems to do best these days.

Brian26
05-19-2007, 07:07 PM
Just curious, who would you have used to start the eighth? Thornton?

I go with my two best guys with a one-run lead. Thornton would have started the 8th, and Jenks would have been warm in the bullpen. I'd bring Jenks in to finish the 8th if necessary.

sox1970
05-19-2007, 07:08 PM
As much as everyone is ripping on Logan, Aardsma and Ozzie get the blame. Most relievers coming in with the bases loaded and one out, would give up at least one or two runs. With the Sox offense struggling, they weren't going to win anyway 90% of the time.

Ozzie should have pulled Aardsma sooner. Jenks needs to start getting two inning saves. It's absolute bull**** that a closer can't go more than one inning.

DickAllen72
05-19-2007, 07:08 PM
You should do yourself a favor and look up payroll numbers
That's not the point. The Sox need to spend big money to bring in top flight talent to fill holes that they cannot fill through their weak farm system.

As long as they're paying around $100M for this, might as well spend what is required to go all the way.

Jose.Contreras
05-19-2007, 07:08 PM
why throw Logan out there instead of Jenks or Thornton? It LITERALLY makes no sense. We went from having a slight chance to win the game to absolutley no chance with the Logan call by Ozzie? Can someone...ANYONE please explain to me what Ozzie could possibly been thinking in that situation? Seriously. Anyone?

JB98
05-19-2007, 07:09 PM
I go with my two best guys with a one-run lead. Thornton would have started the 8th, and Jenks would have been warm in the bullpen. I'd bring Jenks in to finish the 8th if necessary.

For some reason, Ozzie thinks Matt is a situational lefty. Right now, I think Matt is throwing the ball better than any of our relievers.

You know, we've blown two late-inning leads in this series, and neither of our two best guys has appeared yet. That really is ridiculous.

The more I think about it, you are right. I could stomach this better if Matt or Bobby had blown the game. At least then I would have known that we lost with our best out there.

joebro25
05-19-2007, 07:10 PM
The game was already lost before that though. Aardsma blew it, and I have to admit I would have used him in that situation myself.

I have to agree wholeheartedly with you. Aardsma was the right guy to bring in, but of course with our luck, he completely fell apart out there. Even after giving up the lead he could've prevented further damage by picking up the baseball and throwing out Barret at first or even Ramirez at third.

TDog
05-19-2007, 07:10 PM
I missed most of the game. I came in on the Internet when Konerko homered to give the Sox the lead. But it looked like the Sox came from behind twice. And then it took about a minute and a half for the Cubs to take the lead against the guy who many thought should have been brought in on Friday to shut the door. Surely Aardsma couldn't have done any worse than MacDougal -- but both gave up triples to the first hitters they faced.

I'm not saying I agreed with all of Guillen's moves at the end. I was against the intentional walk. As usual (and as in the loss in the Metrodome), it came around to score. It wasn't a given that when Guillen brought Logan in that a hitter benched with an injury would come in to hit the grand slam to extend the lead. But the loss isn't evidence that Guillen should be fired.

The bullpen is having a horrendous weekend. There is no reason to believe that Aardsma would have preserved the lead Friday based on what he did Saturday. This must really hurt because people around here enjoy Cubs bashing so much. The fact is, these games aren't even as important as the A's games next week.

FedEx227
05-19-2007, 07:10 PM
For some reason, Ozzie thinks Matt is a situational lefty. Right now, I think Matt is throwing the ball better than any of our relievers.

You know, we've blown two late-inning leads in this series, and neither of our two best guys has appeared yet. That really is ridiculous.

The more I think about it, you are right. I could stomach this better if Matt or Bobby had blown the game. At least then I would have known that we lost with our best out there.

That's exactly it. We've imploded in the 8th inning two straight days and our best two relievers have been nowhere to be found.

This matchups/lefty/righty/micro-managing **** has to stop. If the guy is good he's good, have some faith in him and put him in.

DickAllen72
05-19-2007, 07:11 PM
They are not the better team. Ozzie got outmanaged today.
Yes, he certainly did. Lou is one of the better managers in the game. I guess the manager is part of the team, isn't he?

FedEx227
05-19-2007, 07:12 PM
Yes, he certainly did. Lou is one of the better managers in the game. I guess the manager is part of the team, isn't he?

To most guys here Ozzie isn't apart of the team when we lose (I didn't know he was in the bullpen, etc) and is when we win (his fiery attitude helps us, etc.).

kevingrt
05-19-2007, 07:14 PM
The weekend afternoon crowd is being pretty nice. If this was a late Tuesday night this place would be flaming.:angry:

JB98
05-19-2007, 07:14 PM
That's exactly it. We've imploded in the 8th inning two straight days and our best two relievers have been nowhere to be found.

This matchups/lefty/righty/micro-managing **** has to stop. If the guy is good he's good, have some faith in him and put him in.

And in the case of Logan, if a guy is bad, **** him. Send him to Charlotte where he belongs. Boone is a young pitcher and may be able to develop his skills to the point where he can help us someday. Today was not that day.

Cellview22
05-19-2007, 07:15 PM
Tomorrow's gonna be tough to watch. I hope Contreras doesn't fall apart mentally with the crowd roaring and all those brooms waving. And the last thing I want to see is Zambrano pointing to the sky while the crowd's going crazy.

DickAllen72
05-19-2007, 07:15 PM
My guess is he's talking the lack of signing big ticket free agents because the Sox have spent the money in-house.
Exactly. If the Sox want to win another championship, they must be willing to overpay to fill their remaining holes because there are absolutely no position players in their minor league system that are of any help.

Brian26
05-19-2007, 07:15 PM
Yes, he certainly did. Lou is one of the better managers in the game. I guess the manager is part of the team, isn't he?

It's not the first time Piniella has outmanaged one of our managers either.

:jerry

DickAllen72
05-19-2007, 07:16 PM
Tomorrow's gonna be tough to watch. I hope Contreras doesn't fall apart mentally with the crowd roaring and all those brooms waving. And the last thing I want to see is Zambrano pointing to the sky while the crowd's going crazy.
Contreras isn't pitching tomorrow. It's Masset. Unless Ozzie changed his mind. Again.

Brian26
05-19-2007, 07:16 PM
Tomorrow's gonna be tough to watch. I hope Contreras doesn't fall apart mentally with the crowd roaring and all those brooms waving.

It's going to be tougher than you think, because Contreras isn't even pitching. Nick Masset will get his first MLB start.

FedEx227
05-19-2007, 07:17 PM
Glad I asked to switch to a day-shift. Masset at Wrigley, no thank you.

eriqjaffe
05-19-2007, 07:17 PM
Contreras isn't pitching tomorrow. It's Masset. Unless Ozzie changed his mind. Again.So, anyhow, looking ahead to Oakland...

'Cause I'm making a point of not paying any attention to the game tomorrow whatsoever.

JB98
05-19-2007, 07:17 PM
It's going to be tougher than you think, because Contreras isn't even pitching. Nick Masset will get his first MLB start.

I'll be doing my rain dance when I get off work tonight.

FedEx227
05-19-2007, 07:19 PM
I'll be doing my rain dance when I get off work tonight.

Chance of rain 30%

YEEE-UUUS!

JB98
05-19-2007, 07:20 PM
Chance of rain 30%

YEEE-UUUS!


At the very least, we need the wind to be blowing in. Young Mr. Masset has shown a propensity to give up the long ball at the wrong time, as well as walking people.

TDog
05-19-2007, 07:21 PM
They are not the better team. Ozzie got outmanaged today.

Guillen's too afraid to flash the "hit a triple" sign to his hitters for fear it might be stolen and a pitchout called.

The managers didn't win these games. The players on the Cubs did their job. The Sox players didn't.

Aardsma lost the game, just as Thornton lost the second game of the season against Oakland and Jenks lost the second game in Oakland (and Dempster lost Thursday in New York).

Patrick134
05-19-2007, 07:23 PM
I'll take 4 out of 5 series won anyday. Quit pretending these cubs games are more important than divisional games. I'd take a win over the tribe, tigers or twins any day over a win vs. the scrubs.

ZombieRob
05-19-2007, 07:24 PM
Those balls down in the corner can't be cut off.

Be pissed at Dye for grounding into a doubleplay earlier in the game with the bases loaded.
I'm not going to rag on Dye but one thing i noticed this year is his ability to get to balls at certian times.He may be reaching that crossroad between spot fielding and being a DH

WSox597
05-19-2007, 07:24 PM
Woe is me! It's going to be a REAL LONG day for me at work Monday. I'm hip deep in sCrub fans and they are going to be in all their glory.

I think a feel a migraine coming on, apologies to Scottie Pippen.

So, what we have here is, a superior manager of an inferior team outmanaging an inferior manager of a superior team. Yeah, that works for me. I gues we better get used to this feeling.

I cringed when the Cubs signed Lou, specifically thinking of these two series. Why can't the White Sox sign a proven manager like this, instead of the lowest bidder? The last time a Sox manager had a name was Fregosi I think. Manuel, Bevington, give me a break.

God, I'm gonna HATE Monday...

SOXandILLINI
05-19-2007, 07:26 PM
To most guys here Ozzie isn't apart of the team when we lose (I didn't know he was in the bullpen, etc) and is when we win (his fiery attitude helps us, etc.).

huge bingo

Patrick134
05-19-2007, 07:29 PM
Woe is me! It's going to be a REAL LONG day for me at work Monday. I'm hip deep in sCrub fans and they are going to be in all their glory.

I think a feel a migraine coming on, apologies to Scottie Pippen.

So, what we have here is, a superior manager of an inferior team outmanaging an inferior manager of a superior team. Yeah, that works for me. I gues we better get used to this feeling.

I cringed when the Cubs signed Lou, specifically thinking of these two series. Why can't the White Sox sign a proven manager like this, instead of the lowest bidder? The last time a Sox manager had a name was Fregosi I think. Manuel, Bevington, give me a break.

God, I'm gonna HATE Monday...


Where is the outmanaging ? Piniella didn't hit any triples, and ozzie didn't surrender any.

Cellview22
05-19-2007, 07:29 PM
Why is everyone throwing all the blame on Ozzie? He was right for putting in Aardsma in the 8th. Vazquez was done, he gave up 6 runs, but we were in the position to wrap it up with Aardsma and Jenks. We needed Aardsma in there, he's a strikeout pitcher, all we needed was 2 outs from him, but once again the ball didn't bounce in our way. The ball wasn't even hit that hard, it just happened to fall in the perfect gap for a triple.. that's our luck.

SOXandILLINI
05-19-2007, 07:31 PM
Where is the outmanaging ? Piniella didn't hit any triples, and ozzie didn't surrender any.
roflmao... typical ozzie apologist, the outmanaging is all over the thread... i better leave now before i start thinking sox fans are as dumb as cub fans.

lumpyspun
05-19-2007, 07:31 PM
To most guys here Ozzie isn't apart of the team when we lose (I didn't know he was in the bullpen, etc) and is when we win (his fiery attitude helps us, etc.).

I love these kind of broad statements. There are over 7,000 members here, so MOST would be like what? 6,000 people?

You probably have like 4 or 5 posters in mind that you are talking about, but you say most to make your post seem better than it is.

skobabe8
05-19-2007, 07:32 PM
There isnt a manager in baseball that could make a difference with this team right now.

SOXandILLINI
05-19-2007, 07:33 PM
I love these kind of broad statements. There are over 7,000 members here, so MOST would be like what? 6,000 people?

You probably have like 4 or 5 posters in mind that you are talking about, but you say most to make your post seem better than it is.

no.... most would be 3501..wow.

MySoxAreClean
05-19-2007, 07:33 PM
I just wanna know when Thome comes back, seems like every time they mention him he is still on the first day of his DL list Mannnnnn.

Lip Man 1
05-19-2007, 07:35 PM
This year's edition of the 'new and improved' bullpen is making last year's bullpen look like world beater's.

I wonder how Kenny's taking all this?

Lip

skobabe8
05-19-2007, 07:36 PM
no.... most would be 3501..wow.

I disagree. 3501 would be considered majority. Not 'most'.

Paulwny
05-19-2007, 07:36 PM
Some days it's lack of hitting
some days it's lack of pitching
some days it's lack of defense
a .500 team

FedEx227
05-19-2007, 07:36 PM
I love these kind of broad statements. There are over 7,000 members here, so MOST would be like what? 6,000 people?

You probably have like 4 or 5 posters in mind that you are talking about, but you say most to make your post seem better than it is.

Exactly, because 4 of the posts on the page before this aren't proving my point exactly.

SOXandILLINI
05-19-2007, 07:37 PM
I disagree. 3501 would be considered majority. Not 'most'.
anything more than half is most.... whatever it's irrelevant anyway... i'm pissed.

Patrick134
05-19-2007, 07:37 PM
This year's edition of the 'new and improved' bullpen is making last year's bullpen look like world beater's.

I wonder how Kenny's taking all this?

Lip


The bullpen has been brutal the past 10 days, but without the early success of the bullpen, the sox are 10 games under .500 right now.

Jose.Contreras
05-19-2007, 07:38 PM
Why is everyone throwing all the blame on Ozzie? He was right for putting in Aardsma in the 8th. Vazquez was done, he gave up 6 runs, but we were in the position to wrap it up with Aardsma and Jenks. We needed Aardsma in there, he's a strikeout pitcher, all we needed was 2 outs from him, but once again the ball didn't bounce in our way. The ball wasn't even hit that hard, it just happened to fall in the perfect gap for a triple.. that's our luck.

I blame Ozzie for killing any slight chance we had to pull this game out when he brought in Logan. Our bullpen has a lot to do with the loss..of course. But what we have here with our manager is someone who is constantly DECREASING our chances of winning ballgames. In tight games like this the manager's decision are what play a huge role on the outcome of the game .I agreed with the Aardma decision. That was the right call to start him in the eight. But when Oz brought in Boone Logan with Thornton (WHO IS MUCH BETTER) and his cloeser,, Bobby Jenks fresh and ready to go, THAT is when Ozzie gave the game away. I mean what ever chance we had a that point was completly crushed with Logan? It's like Ozzie was almost trying to lose the game. How does he explain this call? Bottom line is that he still has no clue on how to manaage a bullpen. I mean...he's really, really bad. This is a constant problem with Ozzie. I can't recall a manager who passes up his best available relief pitchers as often as Guillen has in CRUCIAL situations. It's inexcusable. I just don't get it.

Brian26
05-19-2007, 07:39 PM
Where is the outmanaging ? Piniella didn't hit any triples, and ozzie didn't surrender any.

This is true. However, it's a hell of a move by Piniella to call on righty D-Lee, who's been out a week, to pinch hit for lefty Jacques Jones after Ozzie brought in the soft-tossing Logan. It's not like it was a no-brainer decision like he was pinch-hitting for the pitcher. It was a nice gamble that paid off. Ozzie didn't forsee that happening, and I don't know anyone in their right mind who would think Logan stood a chance against Lee with the wind blowing out.
I guess you can blame Logan for throwing the pitch, but he was overmatched. Thornton should have been in there in the 8th inning when the Sox are within a run. After the Lee homer, the game was over.

Poor effort by Vazquez too, as there's no reason to go 3-2 with the pitcher and then serve up a two-run gopher ball.

skobabe8
05-19-2007, 07:40 PM
anything more than half is most.... whatever it's irrelevant anyway... i'm pissed.

Like I said, I disagree. More than half is considered a majority. I would say 2/3 would be considered 'most' in my book. Boy, it is nice to think about something other than the game. Everyone should try it.

FedEx227
05-19-2007, 07:40 PM
I agreed with the Aardma decision. That was the right call to start him in the eight. But when Oz brought in Boone Logan with Thornton (WHO IS MUCH BETTER) and his cloeser,, Bobby Jenks fresh and ready to go, THAT is when Ozzie gave the game away. I mean what ever chance we had a that point was completly crushed with Logan? It's like Ozzie was almost trying to lose the game. How does he explain this call? Bottom line is that he still has no clue on how to manaage a bullpen. I mean...he's really, really bad. This is a constant problem with Ozzie. I can't recall a manager who passes up his best available relief pitchers as often as Guillen has in CRUCIAL situations. It's inexcusable. I just don't get it.

Dude, it's not the managers fault that he brought in a clearly over-matched, young, untalented player against one of the best hitters in the NL and that over-matched, young, untalented player got lit up by the elite hitter. Idiot.

SOXandILLINI
05-19-2007, 07:41 PM
Dude, it's not the managers fault that he brought in a clearly over-matched, young, untalented player against one of the best hitters in the NL. Idiot.
too funny:bandance:

HITMEN OF 77
05-19-2007, 07:41 PM
The past 2 games remind me of the Super Nintendo game Pilot Wings.

"*&%&#^$#@^*=$ SPLAT!!"

Patrick134
05-19-2007, 07:41 PM
This is true. However, it's a hell of a move by Piniella to call on righty D-Lee, who's been out a week, to pinch hit for lefty Jacques Jones after Ozzie brought in the soft-tossing Logan. It's not like it was a no-brainer decision like he was pinch-hitting for the pitcher. It was a nice gamble that paid off. Ozzie didn't forsee that happening, and I don't know anyone in their right mind who would think Logan stood a chance against Lee with the wind blowing out.
I guess you can blame Logan for throwing the pitch, but he was overmatched. Thornton should have been in there in the 8th inning when the Sox are within a run. After the Lee homer, the game was over.

Poor effort by Vazquez too, as there's no reason to go 3-2 with the pitcher and then serve up a two-run gopher ball.


Good points. It's not too ballsy to put up Lee there though. The cubs had the lead already... and granted anyone can come back against Dumpster, but the sox offense is still in the anemic stages for now.

JB98
05-19-2007, 07:42 PM
Dude, it's not the managers fault that he brought in a clearly over-matched, young, untalented player against one of the best hitters in the NL and that over-matched, young, untalented player got lit up by the elite hitter. Idiot.

Ozzie got duped into the notion that Lee was unavailable today. That is where the outmanaging occurred. That, and the fact that Logan doesn't belong in the major leagues.

MySoxAreClean
05-19-2007, 07:43 PM
:gulp: Let just All have a beer, Drink till you pass out , And when you wake up tomorrow drink some more to stop the pain.

Brian26
05-19-2007, 07:45 PM
Dude, it's not the managers fault that he brought in a clearly over-matched, young, untalented player against one of the best hitters in the NL and that over-matched, young, untalented player got lit up by the elite hitter. Idiot.

Just to be fair, Lee was called on to pinch hit AFTER Logan was called in to pitch.

Technically, Ozzie could have gone out there and pulled Logan after the first pitch (swinging strike to Lee), but that's an unheard of move because you don't want to burn through your bullpen like that.

skobabe8
05-19-2007, 07:45 PM
:gulp: Let just All have a beer, Drink till you pass out , And when you wake up tomorrow drink some more to stop the pain.

I'm guessing you started a long time ago?

sox1970
05-19-2007, 07:46 PM
:gulp: Let just All have a beer, Drink till you pass out , And when you wake up tomorrow drink some more to stop the pain.

I wish I could. I have to go to Wrigley tomorrow. :(:

Can't wait to see all the brooms.

Lip Man 1
05-19-2007, 07:46 PM
Pat:

Well for what it's worth the bullpen has now personally lost six games where they had the lead in the 7th inning or later, they also blew the lead in three other games after the 7th inning where the Sox eventually came back and won.

The bullpen ERA is very high, the walks allowed is outrageous, the hits per nine inning number is poor as well.

About the only 'good' number the bullpen has compiled this year is strikeouts.

I don't think they've been performing well in general terms the entire season but that's just my opinion.

Kenny personally made the changes, he took the risks, which is why I'm curious how he is reacting to this.

Lip

skobabe8
05-19-2007, 07:47 PM
I wish I could. I have to go to Wrigley tomorrow. :(:

Can't wait to see all the brooms.

Let me know if they allow brooms in. God knows they didnt when I tried a couple years ago. :D:

FedEx227
05-19-2007, 07:49 PM
Just to be fair, Lee was called on to pitch AFTER Logan was called in to pitch.

Technically, Ozzie could have gone out there and pulled Logan after the first pitch (swinging strike to Lee), but that's an unheard of move because you don't want to burn through your bullpen like that.

I suppose so, I am exaggerating a bit. But it would be nice to not have to worry about them coming in with a surprise pinch-hitter and just putting our best, more talented guy up there in a pressure situation like that.

Jerko
05-19-2007, 07:49 PM
Aw, that hurt - really, really bad!!!! I just yelled as loud as I could when that granny was hit. Unstinkin'believable.

When Lee came in to pinch hit, my buddy said that Logan should throw a ball and be removed. Maybe he had something there. I still say the game turned on the 500 foot homer by Marquis AFTER the great number 8 hitter coaxed a walk. That's ****in embarrassing. Plus, this is like what, the 7th or 8th game we lost with a lead in the final innings? Something is obviously not working. Also, nice work on the 30 triples the Cubs hit this series. ***. The REDS have a winning record against this garbage, we don't. Awful.

skobabe8
05-19-2007, 07:54 PM
So the official website still shows Contreras tomorrow...

MarySwiss
05-19-2007, 07:54 PM
There isnt a manager in baseball that could make a difference with this team right now.

Wow! IMO, that is the most intelligent statement I've read in this thread. This team needs to get its **** together, plain and simple. They don't need to trade for anyone, they don't need to bring anyone up, they don't need to send anyone down. Am I happy we lost to the Cubs? No. Do I wish our hitters would break out of this pitiful slump? Yes. But are we out of it at this point in mid-May? Absolutely not.

That said, however, I am kind of alarmed by the parallels to last year. We all thought the Sox would "cinch it up and hunker down." And they played just well enough to miss the playoffs. None of us want to see that happen again.

FedEx227
05-19-2007, 07:58 PM
(In an attempt to forget the occurances this weekend)

So who's going to Monday's game?! :bandance::bandance:

Jerko
05-19-2007, 08:10 PM
Just to be fair, Lee was called on to pinch hit AFTER Logan was called in to pitch.

that's an unheard of move because you don't want to burn through your bullpen like that.

Never stopped us before.

Navarro's Talent
05-19-2007, 08:23 PM
Ugh, bad game. Javy wasn't great, but he did give us the innings they needed. Plus, we got some runs today, which was a plus. Still, I hate to see the bullpen do this. I hope they regain their forms soon.

chisoxfanatic
05-19-2007, 08:23 PM
God, I'm gonna HATE Monday...
Just mention 1908, and that'll shut them up. As of 10/26/05, I quote DumpJerry here, we WON the war! This IS their World Series, because we all know they won't ever make it to one again. The Law of Baseball prohibits that from happening.

To be honest with you, since we won the World Series, I haven't cared so much about these games. It's just not having the same effect on me since we hold the ultimate trump card.

TDog
05-19-2007, 08:36 PM
Just to be fair, Lee was called on to pinch hit AFTER Logan was called in to pitch.

Technically, Ozzie could have gone out there and pulled Logan after the first pitch (swinging strike to Lee), but that's an unheard of move because you don't want to burn through your bullpen like that.

No wonder your arguments are hollow. You don't know the rules of baseball. Consider the following from the official baseball rules.

3.05 (a) The pitcher named in the batting order handed the umpire in chief, as provided in Rules 4.01 (a) and 4.01 (b), shall pitch to the first batter or any substitute batter until such batter is put out or reaches first base, unless the pitcher sustains injury or illness which, in the judgment of the umpire in chief, incapacitates him from pitching.
(b) If the pitcher is replaced, the substitute pitcher shall pitch to the batter then at bat, or any substitute batter, until such batter is put out or reaches first base, or until the offensive team is put out, unless the substitute pitcher sustains injury or illness which, in the umpire in chief's judgment, incapacitates him for further play as a pitcher. (emphasis added)

The reason it's unheard of to remove a pitcher after his first pitch is because it is illegal.

Not everyone has to face one hitter, of course. Dean Stone won the 1954 All-Star game without retiring a hitter, but he threw out Red Schoendeinst trying to steal home to end the inning. In 1986, Todd Fischer, in his last major league game, took the mound for the Angels with the bases loaded and the score tied in Fenway. Before he could throw a pitch, he balked and the game ended.

That Guillen didn't run out to the mound and break Logan's left arm is obviously an example of bad managing.

ChiSox524
05-19-2007, 08:40 PM
What a disgrace! We really need to work on our relief pitching.

StillMissOzzie
05-19-2007, 08:41 PM
I think that Aardsma was the right choice there, too, but it sure seemed to be like he was hitting the fat part of the plate on almost every pitch. And I had a very bad feeling when D Lee came in to PH off of Logan. Overmatched? Yeah, I think so.
I am just grateful that my bowling season is over with so I won't have to listen to my chirpy Cub "fan" friends..."fans" in that they know jack **** about baseball but count themselves as fans of the Cubs.

PLEASE don't get swept by these guys!

SMO
:angry:

Viva Medias B's
05-19-2007, 08:45 PM
Last night, I said we should release MacDougal so that we can keep Sweeney and Logan. Let me revise that: We should release MacDougal and give Logan a one-way ticket to Charlotte.

Jerko
05-19-2007, 08:48 PM
I can't be that mad at Logan. He's good at one thing, getting lefties out. Maybe he should have faked an injury when Lee came up. Or maybe our manager should have known Lee was available to pinch hit and not bring Logan in in the first place. No matter. If Lee didn't get the call Pagan or Blanco would have tripled or walked anyway. Nothing you can do.

TDog
05-19-2007, 08:59 PM
I can't be that mad at Logan. He's good at one thing, getting lefties out. Maybe he should have faked an injury when Lee came up. Or maybe our manager should have known Lee was available to pinch hit and not bring Logan in in the first place. No matter. If Lee didn't get the call Pagan or Blanco would have tripled or walked anyway. Nothing you can do.


By the way, pitchers don't get out of pitching by "faking" injuries. In the 1970s, a Texas Rangers manager mistakenly wrote Nolan Ryan's name into the starting lineup of a game at Old Comiskey the day after Ryan had pitched. The umpires required Ryan to pitch to the Sox leadoff hitter, despite not being in any shape to pitch.

VenturaFan23
05-19-2007, 09:00 PM
This is probably one of our worst loses off the season, but I'm not too bitter. I got invited to the suites today with guys from work and friends so I still had a great time even though the outcome royally sucked. We'll have to avoid the sweep tomorrow. I just hope Danks can pitch a complete game tomorrow!

sox1970
05-19-2007, 09:01 PM
This is probably one of our worst loses off the season, but I'm not too bitter. I got invited to the suites today with guys from work and friends so I still had a great time even though the outcome royally sucked. We'll have to avoid the sweep tomorrow. I just hope Danks can pitch a complete game tomorrow!

Um...yeah....Danks isn't pitching tomorrow. Nick Masset, my friend.

VenturaFan23
05-19-2007, 09:02 PM
Um...yeah....Danks isn't pitching tomorrow. Nick Masset, my friend.

AHH!!!!!!!!!! :whiner: Thanks for the great news!

MCHSoxFan
05-19-2007, 09:05 PM
This is for the game today: :angry: :angry: :angry: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:

Are you guys still talking about how I put in loose instead of lose in the previous postgame thread? Man, the Sox must be doing real bad.

JB98
05-19-2007, 09:12 PM
AHH!!!!!!!!!! :whiner: Thanks for the great news!

At least Thornton and Jenks will be well rested, since they obviously weren't needed to protect leads the last two days.

gobears1987
05-19-2007, 09:16 PM
he'd be an even better manager in a sox uniform.
Shut up with your stupid Ozzie bashing.

You have never made out a major league line-up let alone won a World Series. Your act has grown tiresome and you are doing nothing more than making yourself out to be a :dumbass:

NDSox12
05-19-2007, 09:17 PM
Just mention 1908, and that'll shut them up. As of 10/26/05, I quote DumpJerry here, we WON the war! This IS their World Series, because we all know they won't ever make it to one again. The Law of Baseball prohibits that from happening.

To be honest with you, since we won the World Series, I haven't cared so much about these games. It's just not having the same effect on me since we hold the ultimate trump card.

Yeah, I'm with you on that. Not to say today's loss wasn't painful, because all Sox losses are. However, I don't plan my week around the Sox/Cubs games like I used to.

gobears1987
05-19-2007, 09:21 PM
The game was already lost before that though. Aardsma blew it, and I have to admit I would have used him in that situation myself.I'll agree with you there. That won't stop the fire Ozzie morons from blaming Ozzie for using his set-up man in the correct role.

gobears1987
05-19-2007, 09:24 PM
huge bingoDo you make any posts here not doing with calling for Ozzie to be fired?

Seriously, did he run your dog over or something?

Get a ****ing grip. Ozzie has led us to a World Championship. What have any other recent Sox managers or people you want to manage done?

NSSoxFan
05-19-2007, 09:25 PM
I'll agree with you there. That won't stop the fire Ozzie morons from blaming Ozzie for using his set-up man in the correct role.

I've never seen a baseball game where each manager was the only one on the field, playing against eachother. To hear some posters tell it, Ozzie threw a hanger to Pinellia, who hit the **** out of the ball.

:rolleyes:

BoysMom3
05-19-2007, 09:27 PM
Just mention 1908, and that'll shut them up. As of 10/26/05, I quote DumpJerry here, we WON the war! This IS their World Series, because we all know they won't ever make it to one again. The Law of Baseball prohibits that from happening.

To be honest with you, since we won the World Series, I haven't cared so much about these games. It's just not having the same effect on me since we hold the ultimate trump card.

I like that idea; I like it a lot.

How about this funny broom story to take the edge off? Last summer my family and I went up to see the Sox play against the Cardinals in Chicago. It was the game with that ridiculous score, 20-6, or something close to that. Anyway, we brought our then 10 y.o. niece along - she's the biggest Cards fan. My sister has had talks with her about not being so upset after a loss that she has to cry herself to sleep. So initially my husband and I were whooping it up and enjoying it. After several more runs, we just politely clapped because it wasn't any fun to rub it in our niece's face. She was holding up well by not crying and putting up a very brave face.

So forward to the next day at the pool. A close friend's husband is there, and he's a huge Cards fan. He's on the obnoxious side too, but a fun and nice guy. So I'm razzing him about it to get it out of my system from the day before. He was like - whatever, it doesn't matter how many runs you beat us by, it's just one win...what, do you think you're going to sweep us or something? I just smiled and said yes. So yeah, after we swept them, I sent our teenage son and his girlfriend out to Wal-Mart to buy a nice broom and had them set it on that couple's front porch, ring the bell, and run. Pretty soon my girlfriend was calling me on the phone, telling me how she thinks I'm awesome (because her husband can be obnoxious, so he could be on the receiving end one time). And this is how he reacted. He went to the door and yelled out to his wife that there's nobody there. But wait a minute, there's a broom - ARGGGG!! Then he shook his fist in the air and yelled out our last name. Now that was some really fun stuff right there. My son and his friend went back over there too because they know the couple well from church, and everyone had a good laugh. Now that's a fun sweep story.:D:

Early Win!
05-19-2007, 09:31 PM
I am sick of seeing Chicago at the bottom of the AL batting average. Dye and Konerko need to get with it. This offense is sorry. Now the bullpen is becoming a joke losting to the Flubs again like yesterday. It is totally repulsive.

Jose.Contreras
05-19-2007, 09:37 PM
I'll agree with you there. That won't stop the fire Ozzie morons from blaming Ozzie for using his set-up man in the correct role.


You guys are ridiculous. You agree that the game was lost before Logan even came in!?!? COME ON! We were down one run at that time. If we go with our best relief available there is a better chance we get out of the bottom of the eigth and get a chance to tie or take the lead. All it would take is one swing to tie it. The game WAS, however, lost when Ozzie bypassed Jenks and Thornton to go with the very very shaky Boone Logan. We had a chance at least if we go with our best. After Logan predictibly got lit up by Lee, making us down 5 runs.....yeah, THAT is when the game was out of reach. Very simply put...

- 1 run down going into the ninth = a reasonable chance to at least tie

- 5 runs down going into the bottom of the ninth (heck, even 2 or 3) = almost no chance

Ozzie does some things well as a manager. The players love him. He is tough and aa good leader. But when it comes to managing a bullpen I think Guillen is just awful. Yiou cannot deny the fact that he is constantly using inferior relievers with better ones available IN CRUCIAL SITUATIONS. Managing the bullpen, IMO, is THE most important aspect to managing a major league ballclub. Time after time, and season after season we continue to see Ozzie make unreal boneheaded bullpen decisions. How about....I dunno.....using McDoughal for TWO innings of relief when he was clearly getting rocked. I think if I recall correctly this was....like.....yesterday! We go from down 1 run to 3 runs because of that bad call. How many times is Guillen gonna take us out of ballgames that are winnable simply from his intense mis-use of the pen? Thiss is where Ozzie is killing us. He needs to change his insane usage of the bullpen...and he needs to change it Now. Enough is enough.

With all that said I still am not about to say I am on board to want Ozzie fired...yet. That would be a desperate move right now. I doubt it will happen, but if there is somehow a way Ozzie actually learns how to use the pen....I think there is still time to find out. We'll see where we are at the end of the year before I want to see him gone. I'm not wuite all the way there just yet. But he certainly is getting more frustrating by the day.

Hey Ozzie....GET IT TOGETHER MAN.

Viva Medias B's
05-19-2007, 09:39 PM
I'll agree with you there. That won't stop the fire Ozzie morons from blaming Ozzie for using his set-up man in the correct role.

As much as a humiliating embarrassment these past two days have been for our franchise (the two blown games against our social archrival and Guillen's unjustified profanity-laced rant on the Score Friday morning), firing Guillen over the events of this weekend would be knee-jerk reaction. Oh, I am not happy with him right now. His stock has taken a hit in my opinion these past few days. However, firing him a rush to judgement.

However, if we fail to make the playoffs for the second season in a row with that failure not attributed to impact players sustaining season-ending injuries (i.e., Frank and Maggs in 2004) but a preponderance of Guillen's decision-making/conduct attributed to that failure instead, then and only then those of you who wish for Guillen to go may have a legitimate case.

JB98
05-19-2007, 09:42 PM
The funny thing is, one day I'll get labeled an Ozzie apologist by someone. The next day, I'll get lectured by someone on here for criticizing Ozzie.

For most of us, we sometimes agree with Ozzie and sometimes disagree with Ozzie. That's just how it is. I don't know why we go back and forth on here about who is an idiot and who is not.

rocky biddle
05-19-2007, 10:11 PM
I got a text from my Cub fan brother-in-law after the game. I was outraged before even reading it, but all it said was "May baseball doesn't mean ****." I thought that was rather nice of him, and it kinda calmed me down a little bit. I guess I deserve it for never giving him a hard time when the Sox won the WS.

The past 2 games have sucked. Searching for a brightside, Iguchi looked good today and the offense was able to show a little life and come back a few times.

I've got the same old excuses, the same old complaints and the same old hopes. I just pray these guys get it together soon.

May baseball might not mean ****, but it's gonna be June before they know it.

PaulDrake
05-19-2007, 10:21 PM
I'll agree with you there. That won't stop the fire Ozzie morons from blaming Ozzie for using his set-up man in the correct role.Sorry, Ozzie got schooled by Lou today. Not the first team he's done that to us, as someone previously posted in this thread.

roadrunner
05-19-2007, 10:28 PM
Sorry, Ozzie got schooled by Lou today. Not the first team he's done that to us, as someone previously posted in this thread.

yup, Lou rode Ozzie hard and put him away wet

HITMEN OF 77
05-19-2007, 10:58 PM
To be honest with you, since we won the World Series, I haven't cared so much about these games. It's just not having the same effect on me since we hold the ultimate trump card.

You just made me feel a lot better. I never really looked at it that way until now. A win tomorrow would still be nice :smile:

Grzegorz
05-19-2007, 11:03 PM
You just made me feel a lot better. I never really looked at it that way until now. A win tomorrow would still be nice

A win would be better than nice; how about necessary? Anyone keeping up with how our division rivals are doing in their inter-league match ups?

JB98
05-19-2007, 11:03 PM
A win would be better than nice; how about necessary? Anyone keeping up with how our division rivals are doing in their inter-league match ups?

The Twins and Tigers are rolling as usual. At last check, the Indians were losing.

Jerko
05-19-2007, 11:06 PM
The Twins and Tigers are rolling as usual. At last check, the Indians were losing.

Indians got hammered, Twins and Tigers rolled the Brewers and Cards.

JB98
05-19-2007, 11:08 PM
Indians got hammered, Twins and Tigers rolled the Brewers and Cards.

Yes, I see the Reds put Cleveland away in the ninth inning. First bit of good news I've had since Thursday.

oeo
05-19-2007, 11:08 PM
The Twins and Tigers are rolling as usual. At last check, the Indians were losing.

When was the last time the Twins 'rolled' anywhere? They've been playing terrible.

Soxfest
05-19-2007, 11:08 PM
This team is just not very good or deep!:raincloud:

oeo
05-19-2007, 11:09 PM
This team is just not very good or deep!:raincloud:

Yep, they're terrible. They're over .500 while batting .220 as a team...that's a bad team right there. :rolleyes:

JB98
05-19-2007, 11:10 PM
When was the last time the Twins 'rolled' anywhere? They've been playing terrible.

Every time they play a National League team, they roll. The last two days have been no exception. The Brewers haven't been able to stop them.

spiffie
05-19-2007, 11:16 PM
Eh, so we lost an interleague game. The pitching has looked solid except for the few bad pitches that have made the pen look far worse than it is the last two games. I know it might sound odd to say a team that has given up 17 runs in two games has been pitching well, but it has just been a couple of bad pitches soiling otherwise solid performances.

Come on people, don't get down on the Sox just because they lost two straight to a team that isn't our rival in any way shape or form. Don't give into flubsession or dark clouding. We lost two interleague games, the best games to lose, since we haven't helped our rivals out at all. Honestly, if they get swept tomorrow I'm not going to worry, since we go back to real baseball against teams that matter on Monday and that's when we can start really playing again. We always seem off when we play at Wrigley, so to even worry about anything that happens in these games is just pointless, since it is like playing in the Twilight Zone. Once we get out of there our bullpen can get back to the lockdown group that it is, no matter if it has blown 9 or so leads and has a 4.50 ERA. That stuff is meaningless, we Sox fans know that this team is built for the long haul and to go to the playoffs. Cleveland and Detroit will both fade away, and when they do we'll be ready to get those bats hot and start to take over the division. And I can't wait!

JB98
05-19-2007, 11:21 PM
Eh, so we lost an interleague game. The pitching has looked solid except for the few bad pitches that have made the pen look far worse than it is the last two games. I know it might sound odd to say a team that has given up 17 runs in two games has been pitching well, but it has just been a couple of bad pitches soiling otherwise solid performances.

Come on people, don't get down on the Sox just because they lost two straight to a team that isn't our rival in any way shape or form. Don't give into flubsession or dark clouding. We lost two interleague games, the best games to lose, since we haven't helped our rivals out at all. Honestly, if they get swept tomorrow I'm not going to worry, since we go back to real baseball against teams that matter on Monday and that's when we can start really playing again. We always seem off when we play at Wrigley, so to even worry about anything that happens in these games is just pointless, since it is like playing in the Twilight Zone. Once we get out of there our bullpen can get back to the lockdown group that it is, no matter if it has blown 9 or so leads and has a 4.50 ERA. That stuff is meaningless, we Sox fans know that this team is built for the long haul and to go to the playoffs. Cleveland and Detroit will both fade away, and when they do we'll be ready to get those bats hot and start to take over the division. And I can't wait!

<JB looks to the heavens and prays that Spiffie is right.>

Jerko
05-19-2007, 11:29 PM
We lost two interleague games, the best games to lose, since we haven't helped our rivals out at all.

We've lost 2 games in the standings to the Tigers and Twins the past 2 days, and one to the Indians. It's nice to pretend losing to the suck ass cubs doesn't hurt, but as of right now, it does. May not mean a hill of beans later, but as of now I'm :angry::angry:. Had the lead after the 6th in BOTH games and lost both...... that hurts no matter what.

Frontman
05-19-2007, 11:31 PM
I just hope the Sox just light up Zambrano's sorry behind tomorrow and get Big Zainy out of the game by inning 3.

CLR01
05-19-2007, 11:32 PM
I recorded this garbage only to waste 2 1/2 hours watching it. I should have come here first and saved myself the trouble. :angry:

chisoxfanatic
05-19-2007, 11:33 PM
I think we are in dire need of DA REVERAND right about now.

oeo
05-19-2007, 11:33 PM
We've lost 2 games in the standings to the Tigers and Twins the past 2 days, and one to the Indians. It's nice to pretend losing to the suck ass cubs doesn't hurt, but as of right now, it does. May not mean a hill of beans later, but as of now I'm :angry::angry:. Had the lead after the 6th in BOTH games and lost both...... that hurts no matter what.

It doesn't bother me that it was the Cubs, and it wouldn't bother me if they were just all-out beaten...but the Sox should have won both of these games. Those hurt, and they were not playing good White Sox baseball; good Sox baseball finishes these games. We should be going for the sweep tomorrow, instead we're trying to avoid being swept; and that is what hurts the most.

spiffie
05-19-2007, 11:39 PM
It doesn't bother me that it was the Cubs, and it wouldn't bother me if they were just all-out beaten...but the Sox should have won both of these games. Those hurt, and they were not playing good White Sox baseball; good Sox baseball finishes these games. We should be going for the sweep tomorrow, instead we're trying to avoid being swept; and that is what hurts the most.
Awww, come on oeo, you know better than most on here that bad games happen to good teams. Usually if there's anyone on the board I can depend on to see that no matter how ****ty the Sox look on a given day they are still the best team in the AL its you. Don't you give in to the dark side too! They're going to win tomorrow and when the bats stay hot for a while they can easily rip off a 16 of 18 or so run at that point, right?!

DrCrawdad
05-19-2007, 11:40 PM
I was watching the game in a hotel sports bar outside the Chicago area. And I was the lone person cheering for the Sox in a group of 4 watching the game.

What was Boone Logan doing facing Lee? Ozzie, did that argument with that meathead throw you off on Friday? These games, while not the World Series, are still losses that count.

oeo
05-19-2007, 11:42 PM
Awww, come on oeo, you know better than most on here that bad games happen to good teams. Usually if there's anyone on the board I can depend on to see that no matter how ****ty the Sox look on a given day they are still the best team in the AL its you. Don't you give in to the dark side too! They're going to win tomorrow and when the bats stay hot for a while they can easily rip off a 16 of 18 or so run at that point, right?!

:?:

I'm merely pointing out that these games should have been won.

What was Boone Logan doing facing Lee? Ozzie, did that argument with that meathead throw you off on Friday? These games, while not the World Series, are still losses that count.

Not trying to make excuses here, but both Lee's slam, and Barret's homerun would not be homeruns without the wind. The Flubs had a couple of cheapies today. Still not sure why Ozzie continues to use Boone Logan in games that matter, though.

spiffie
05-19-2007, 11:46 PM
I was watching the game in a hotel sports bar outside the Chicago area. And I was the lone person cheering for the Sox in a group of 4 watching the game.

What was Boone Logan doing facing Lee? Ozzie, did that argument with that meathead throw you off on Friday? These games, while not the World Series, are still losses that count.
He had no choice but to face Lee. Ozzie brought in Logan to face Jones, and then Piniella surprised everyone by bringing in Lee, who was thought unavailable. Once that happened Logan had to face him.

oeo
05-19-2007, 11:47 PM
He had no choice but to face Lee. Ozzie brought in Logan to face Jones, and then Piniella surprised everyone by bringing in Lee, who was thought unavailable. Once that happened Logan had to face him.

Still, why is Logan even coming in, in the first place? The bases are loaded...you have a much better left-handed option in Matt Thornton. I really wish Ozzie would move Logan to garbage time.

spiffie
05-19-2007, 11:52 PM
Still, why is Logan even coming in, in the first place? The bases are loaded...you have a much better left-handed option in Matt Thornton. I really wish Ozzie would move Logan to garbage time.
I am sure Ozzie felt confident in Logan getting Jones out. After all, while Logan has been erratic at times, he can get the big out. Remember his strikeout of Morneau a few games back? I'm sure if Ozzie knew he would end up against Lee he would not have made that move. Ozzie knew what he was doing, so just trust Ozzie to manage the team. And really, would anyone be complaining if Logan had gotten Lee to get undeneath the ball a hair more and hit a lazy pop up to right? Of course not. It was just bad luck that Lee caught enough for the wind to carry it out. Don't blame Ozzie or Boone for that.

HotelWhiteSox
05-19-2007, 11:57 PM
Meanwhile, Logan, who didn't even start out with us, has already thrown more innings than Thornton. Hell, even Andrew ****ing Sisco has thrown more than Thornton, what's Matt being saved for?

Positives - Bottom of the order guys getting hits. I hope this is a sign of good thing to come. Maybe these freak accidents/insect bites are for the better, it seems like our guys come back stronger after they happen. I'll give him slack for tomorrow though, Crede with very bad stats against Zambrano.

Good to see PK get a hold of one, but he's been weird this season, he'll have a cold streak, then some hits/Hr in a game and you think he's back, and then another cold streak. Hopefully getting Thome back will help him.

Thome25
05-19-2007, 11:58 PM
pathetic, embarrassing, disgusting............we're just not very good right now. PERIOD.:angry: :angry: :angry:

oeo
05-19-2007, 11:59 PM
I am sure Ozzie felt confident in Logan getting Jones out. After all, while Logan has been erratic at times, he can get the big out. Remember his strikeout of Morneau a few games back? I'm sure if Ozzie knew he would end up against Lee he would not have made that move. Ozzie knew what he was doing, so just trust Ozzie to manage the team. And really, would anyone be complaining if Logan had gotten Lee to get undeneath the ball a hair more and hit a lazy pop up to right? Of course not. It was just bad luck that Lee caught enough for the wind to carry it out. Don't blame Ozzie or Boone for that.

I really, really, really dislike Boone. He's come up with some big K's, which have surprised me, because also pulls this kind of **** too. Thornton has gotten his mojo back, I'd rather move Boone to garbage time.

If I were Ozzie (which I'm not), after Aardsma gave up the leadoff triple, I would have immediately went out to calm Aardsma down. Emotions had to be running high for him. It was his former team, and he was probably trying to do too much (he couldn't even field Barrett's ground ball). I think a little chat there could have been the difference between only Theriot scoring, and a complete implosion; and we never would have had to use Boone in the first place.

fuzzy_patters
05-19-2007, 11:59 PM
Still, why is Logan even coming in, in the first place? The bases are loaded...you have a much better left-handed option in Matt Thornton. I really wish Ozzie would move Logan to garbage time.

Logan came in because we were behind. Aardsma was either going to have a successful eighth inning, or his successor was going to be behind on the scoreboard. Every manager that I have seen uses the back end of his bullpen when he is behind because he cannot assume that the offense is going to score a run. If he brought Thornton in and lost 8-7, he would have wasted an appearance by him. This is the same reason that closers don't pitch the top of the ninth when a team is down by a run. You hope the weaker guys can get the job done when your behind so you can save your studs' appearances for tied games and games where you have the lead.

JB98
05-20-2007, 12:00 AM
Meanwhile, Logan, who didn't even start out with us, has already thrown more innings than Thornton. Hell, even Andrew ****ing Sisco has thrown more than Thornton, what's Matt being saved for?


Great question. We have blown a lead in the seventh. We have blown a lead in the eighth. Our best set-up guy has yet to receive a call. It's strange. I am a huge Thornton fan and would like to see him used more, against righties, not just lefties.

oeo
05-20-2007, 12:02 AM
Logan came in because we were behind. Aardsma was either going to have a successful eighth inning, or his successor was going to be behind on the scoreboard. Every manager that I have seen uses the back end of his bullpen when he is behind because he cannot assume that the offense is going to score a run. If he brought Thornton in and lost 8-7, he would have wasted an appearance by him. This is the same reason that closers don't pitch the top of the ninth when a team is down by a run. You hope the weaker guys can get the job done when your behind so you can save your studs' appearances for tied games and games where you have the lead.

Honestly, I think Sisco would have stood a better chance against Lee, who had not played in 4 or 5 games. I don't know, maybe it's just my dislike for Boone, but I don't want to see that guy in close ballgames, winning or losing.

BeviBall!
05-20-2007, 12:59 AM
He had no choice but to face Lee. Ozzie brought in Logan to face Jones, and then Piniella surprised everyone by bringing in Lee, who was thought unavailable.

Pinella said numerous times that Lee was available to pinch hit. ****, who didn't see that coming other than 13?

TDog
05-20-2007, 01:30 AM
Great question. We have blown a lead in the seventh. We have blown a lead in the eighth. Our best set-up guy has yet to receive a call. It's strange. I am a huge Thornton fan and would like to see him used more, against righties, not just lefties.

I'm a Thornton, fan too, but according to a story this week, he has three blown saves, despite not being used as much as other pitchers. That leads the team He isn't automatic. Aardsma seemed automatic until his blown save in Detroit. He was looking good before he blew his third save Saturday. MacDougal has come in with some late leads, and he blew two saves. In the only Sox game I've been to in almost four years, Jenks blew the save in Oakland. Nobody is automatic.

With two blown saves this weekend, the Sox now have nine in 23 opportunities (61 percent success). The Tigers have blown seven in 25 opportunities (72 percent success), and very nearly blew their eighth tonight -- the Cards scored two and were a run short of tying the game with the bases loaded when Rollen popped out. The Indians have blown five in 17 opportunities (71 percent success). The Twins have blown just two -- both to Tampa Bay -- but have only had 10 opportunities (80 percent success). The Cubs have eight blown saves -- only one by Dempster -- in 17 opportunities (53 percent success -- Piniella is obviously a lousy manager).

The Sox bullpen can't possibly be as bad as it's been this weekend. And, in fact, the Sox haven't gotten to their closer. Because Thornton didn't come in with the bases loaded and one out with the Sox already trailing, he remains blameless, as Aardsma was Friday night.

I am hoping the Sox bullpen can regroup. I hope it's only a group slump. Relievers can be inconsistent. I shake my head when I see Alan Embree continue his career in Oakland six years after he appeared done for the White Sox.

oeo
05-20-2007, 01:57 AM
I'm a Thornton, fan too, but according to a story this week, he has three blown saves, despite not being used as much as other pitchers. That leads the team He isn't automatic. Aardsma seemed automatic until his blown save in Detroit. He was looking good before he blew his third save Saturday. MacDougal has come in with some late leads, and he blew two saves. In the only Sox game I've been to in almost four years, Jenks blew the save in Oakland. Nobody is automatic.

Those were all from earlier in the season, when he was struggling. His last time out, he was pretty darn automatic. He was hitting 97 on the gun and looked like the Thornton of 2006 again.

ChiSoxGirl
05-20-2007, 02:13 AM
The most depressing and frustrating TBGR I've written! (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/../rwas/index.php?category=4&id=3371) :angry: (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/../rwas/index.php?category=4&id=3371)

TheOldRoman
05-20-2007, 02:13 AM
As much as a humiliating embarrassment these past two days have been for our franchise (the two blown games against our social archrival and Guillen's unjustified profanity-laced rant on the Score Friday morning), firing Guillen over the events of this weekend would be knee-jerk reaction. Oh, I am not happy with him right now. His stock has taken a hit in my opinion these past few days. However, firing him a rush to judgement.

However, if we fail to make the playoffs for the second season in a row with that failure not attributed to impact players sustaining season-ending injuries (i.e., Frank and Maggs in 2004) but a preponderance of Guillen's decision-making/conduct attributed to that failure instead, then and only then those of you who wish for Guillen to go may have a legitimate case.:rolleyes:x1000
Yes, a humiliating embarrassment for our franchise. **** world championships, people will remembed this weekend where they blew two meaningless games against a team bound to finish in 3rd playing its World Series. They will probably write books about it.
As for the "profanity laced rant", it was justified, and Ozzie was mislead into thinking he was off-air. He used 1 f-bomb, and didn't swear again after he was told he was on the air. Using the "s-bomb" and goddamn hardly makes an profanity laced rant.

Right now this team sucks. That is the reason they lost. Lou TOTALLY schooled Ozzie by making Vazquez give up 5 runs. He schooled Ozzie by making the Sox hitters blow lots of opportunities. Oh, and Dye casually jogging after two triples... all Lou.
Ozzie didn't have a good game, but this team lost on its own accord. When you are down by a run in the 8th, and your team isn't hitting, the game is pretty much over. Add into that the fact that the bases are loaded with one out, and the Cubs are likely getting some insurance. That is why Ozzie went to the ass end of the bullpen. He did make a horrible decision bringing Logan in, but Logan shouldn't even be on the roster. The offense got some runs, but Vazquez sucked today. When you give up 5 runs, you don't put your team in a position to win. If Javy would have given up 2 or 3 runs, this game is a lot different. They shouldn't have been in the position they were in. Then Aardsma came in, and unexpectedly sucked hard and fast. Guys are just having terrible performances all at the same time. This has been going on with the hitters, but with the pitchers this it out of nowhere.
Everything is going wrong for this team right now. They are terrible offensively (against mostly garbage lately), and on a day when they finally do score a respectable amount, Vazquez craps himself and the bullpen explodes. This **** happens sometimes. It is frustrating as hell, but it happens. There will be times this year when we lose games 2-1, and when we lose games 9-8. Greg Walker needs to be on the unemployment line soon. That is the biggest thing facing this team. Even when Walkerball is on, it is far too streaky and reliant on the homer.
I have been saying all year that our pitching has been good, not great. That is the case. They will have games and stretches like this now and then, but I am confident they will be solid. None of our pitchers have played over their heads. None of them have been absolutely dominant to the point where they can't replicate it. I think they will be pretty much where they are now the entire year, with stretches of being much better. Our pitching is not a serious problem. If our hitting gets better, we will start to roll.

As for the people saying "There is no way this team can come back. Look at Cleveland and Detroit", look at the standings. The Indians and Tigers are playing about as good as they ever will, and they only have a 4.5 game lead over a Sox team hitting around the Mendoz line.

MUsoxfan
05-20-2007, 02:58 AM
I've not read this entire thread, but I did attend the game today and these are my thoughts:

* The Lee HR was destiny. There was a vibe in that stadium that just told me it was coming

* It was a really good game, it really was. I hate losing to the Cubs, but it was an exciting game until the 9th.

* This series brings out the absolute worst in the people of Chicago and makes me dread any possibility of a Subway Series

whitesoxfan
05-20-2007, 03:40 AM
I know this may not be the best thing to say given how our bullpen has blown the last two games, but maybe could it be that the Cubs actually have a decent team this year? Ok, Angel Pagan is a career minor leaguer that should never do anything against anyone. But the Cubs seem to have a pretty good offense, for an NL team.

I could get down on our pen, but that's not the thing to do. Anytime our offense puts up 6 runs, we should win the game. But I really think our team is coming around, even though we have lost these two games in a hard way. The offense definitely seems to be waking up, we didn't get a quality start from Javy, but a winnable start, and Thome is going to be back soon. The bullpen will get it together. I firmly believe that. Let's take the finale of this so we can at least salvage one of these three games.

spiffie
05-20-2007, 08:17 AM
I've not read this entire thread, but I did attend the game today and these are my thoughts:

* The Lee HR was destiny. There was a vibe in that stadium that just told me it was coming

You're not the only one who saw that. The second Lee came up to bat when everyone stood up I stayed in my seat and told my friends "I don't want to see the grand slam when it happens." Sometimes you just know. It felt like when Konerko came up in Game 2, you just knew something was going to happen.

spiffie
05-20-2007, 08:21 AM
As for the people saying "There is no way this team can come back. Look at Cleveland and Detroit", look at the standings. The Indians and Tigers are playing about as good as they ever will, and they only have a 4.5 game lead over a Sox team hitting around the Mendoz line.
The only thing that scares me is history of this division says at least one of them is going to stay at that .600 or so pace. We have to hope one of them falls away, but I think it is unlikely that both of them come back to the pack. More likely is that it takes 96 wins to win the division.

hawkjt
05-20-2007, 08:50 AM
the cubs hit two homers to right, two triples to right,a homer to dead center, and countless other hits this weekend to right... ya think the sox pitchers might want to think about throwing inside??:angry:

I mean, clearly the cubs are sitting on outside fastballs and hitting them to right, unlike the pull-happy sox who refuse to go that route.. how about some inside pitches to make them move their feet?? cmon coop and oz better be in there ears about that.

I am with roman generally tho, these games have been blown by the bullpen ,not the manager.. Lee had not hit in 6 days and his first at bat he goes deep? very unlikely to happen.. just not the sox day or weekend..

AS for the cubs... hell they have spent a ton of money, more than the sox so yea.. they should be decent and they do have a nice lineup.. Lee is an awesome player, no way to get around that, and rameriez,soriano,barrett all are proven mlb hitters.. theriot is playing well right now- the kind of contact hitter at the leadoff spot the sox need.. bottom line ?- their stars are hitting and the sox stars are not,right now anyway... it happens.. but we have 123 games to make up 4 in the loss column.. it can be done..

Viva Medias B's
05-20-2007, 08:53 AM
Losing to the Cubs is a problem. No, they're not in our division. But they are our crosstown rival and social archrival. If you are Michigan or Ohio State, you know it's a mortal sin to lose the annual football game to the other team. Beating the Cubs is not the primary goal of our franchise; winning the World Series is, of course. However, losing to the Cubs cannot be acceptable.

The Racehorse
05-20-2007, 08:58 AM
1908 & 2005
... not that I'm keeping score or anything. :gulp:

Viva Medias B's
05-20-2007, 09:05 AM
1908 & 2005
... not that I'm keeping score or anything. :gulp:

That is all well and good, but I want us to win the 2007 World Series.

wassagstdu
05-20-2007, 09:12 AM
Piniella is a genius for putting in a .390 hitter to pinch hit with the bases loaded? Ozzie bet that Piniella would not risk aggravating Lee's neck spasms (very difficult injury to be sure about), but Piniella was willing to take that chance. To me that says this is Piniella's World Series. I think it was a dumb move. If Lee is healthy and Piniella knows it, why is he sitting on the bench for this series? And if the series is not important, why is he risking his best player?

It also shows Piniella's lack of faith in his bullpen.

DickAllen72
05-20-2007, 11:44 AM
Still, why is Logan even coming in, in the first place? The bases are loaded...you have a much better left-handed option in Matt Thornton. I really wish Ozzie would move Logan to garbage time.
I agree Thornton should have been in instead of Logan unless there is a physical problem with Thornton that we don't know about. It seems as if there was at least one other occasion in recent weeks were Logan or Sisco was used when Thornton seemed more appropriate so either Ozzie is mismanaging the situation or there is an issue with Thornton we don't know about.

That being said, Logan has not been that bad so far this season. Actually, I think he's been pretty good and I still have confidence in him in the right situations. Giving up a home run while facing one of the best hitters in baseball with the bases loaded in a tight game is not enough for me to give up on a twenty-two year old pitcher.

DickAllen72
05-20-2007, 11:47 AM
* This series brings out the absolute worst in the people of Chicago and makes me dread any possibility of a Subway Series
That's probably not going to happen anytime soon anyway.

UserNameBlank
05-20-2007, 12:06 PM
The problem with this bullpen is that they aren't throwing perfect first pitches to free swingers, which is why the Cubs hitters have been burning them. The first pitch to Pagan from MacDougal was hit for a 2 run triple, and IIRC the first two hits Aardsma gave up were also on the first pitch. The fastball he threw wasn't all that bad and you have to give the other team credit, but the first pitch slider he threw was a bad one.

This isn't going to happen against most teams. It's not like the Sox pen is coming out and getting 3-0 on everyone, even though the results look like it. The Sox pitchers are attacking and the Cubs' free swingers are playing PS2 baseball right now, hitting every first pitch solidly somewhere.

The bullpen is the least of my concerns. I just hope everyone in it is capable mentally of putting all this BS behind them and moving forward. The error by Aardsma was the only thing that really concerned me. Even the GS Logan gave up I think you have to look past because what else is he going to do? He can't walk Lee but he can't feed him meatballs either. He tried to get Lee to chase since he hasn't faced live pitching a little while, which wasn't a bad idea actually because Lee will strike out, but at 3-1 there was no alternative other than to go right a him.

This was another ugly game for the Sox, but IMO it isn't as ugly as yesterday and it isn't as ugly as most of the losses we've suffered this year where we've had all pitching and no offense.

And one more thing: Lou Pinella has completely outmanaged and outclassed Ozzie during this series.

UserNameBlank
05-20-2007, 12:15 PM
Piniella is a genius for putting in a .390 hitter to pinch hit with the bases loaded? Ozzie bet that Piniella would not risk aggravating Lee's neck spasms (very difficult injury to be sure about), but Piniella was willing to take that chance. To me that says this is Piniella's World Series. I think it was a dumb move. If Lee is healthy and Piniella knows it, why is he sitting on the bench for this series? And if the series is not important, why is he risking his best player?

It also shows Piniella's lack of faith in his bullpen.
Maybe Pinella didn't think Lee would go up there and violently twist his head around like the girl in ****ing Exorcist and figured that one AB wouldn't kill him?

Pinella isn't a moron. If he thought there was any chance of Lee's head falling off he wouldn't have been out there. And the fact that he hasn't played shows how cautious Lou has been with him.

UserNameBlank
05-20-2007, 12:19 PM
Losing to the Cubs is a problem. No, they're not in our division. But they are our crosstown rival and social archrival. If you are Michigan or Ohio State, you know it's a mortal sin to lose the annual football game to the other team. Beating the Cubs is not the primary goal of our franchise; winning the World Series is, of course. However, losing to the Cubs cannot be acceptable.
Bud Selig thanks you for your support of interleague baseball.

Losing to the Cubs is just like losing to any other team in the league that doesn't play in Detroit, Minnesota, or Cleveland. Just because a Sox loss vs. the Cubs means more annoying BS from Cub fans doesn't mean it affects the team any more than a normal loss would.

Let the Cubs look at this as a World Series-level triumph. I'd rather see the Sox move forward and forget this mess, starting today.

The Racehorse
05-20-2007, 12:26 PM
That is all well and good, but I want us to win the 2007 World Series.

Same here... but, as a probable future transplant, I'm just dusting off my one liners to help prepare me for living in the city.

:gulp:

UserNameBlank
05-20-2007, 12:28 PM
the cubs hit two homers to right, two triples to right,a homer to dead center, and countless other hits this weekend to right... ya think the sox pitchers might want to think about throwing inside??:angry:

I mean, clearly the cubs are sitting on outside fastballs and hitting them to right, unlike the pull-happy sox who refuse to go that route.. how about some inside pitches to make them move their feet?? cmon coop and oz better be in there ears about that.

I am with roman generally tho, these games have been blown by the bullpen ,not the manager.. Lee had not hit in 6 days and his first at bat he goes deep? very unlikely to happen.. just not the sox day or weekend..

AS for the cubs... hell they have spent a ton of money, more than the sox so yea.. they should be decent and they do have a nice lineup.. Lee is an awesome player, no way to get around that, and rameriez,soriano,barrett all are proven mlb hitters.. theriot is playing well right now- the kind of contact hitter at the leadoff spot the sox need.. bottom line ?- their stars are hitting and the sox stars are not,right now anyway... it happens.. but we have 123 games to make up 4 in the loss column.. it can be done..

I agree with you on most of this. The Sox pen really needs to go with their best pitch on the first pitch, which is the fastball for everyone in this pen. They need to bust hitters inside from the get-go against all these free-swingers the Cubs are sending up to the plate, and use their out pitches as out pitches, not get ahead pitches. I don't care how predictable they would become, it is still very hard to hit a baseball in the maor leagues, and if they want to try to turn on a 95 mph heater coming in on the hands, let them. If they want to watch that first pitch and get 0-1, again, let them.

I think these guys will learn all of this though over the course of the season. There is a reason KW went out and filled a bullpen with power arms, and right now these guys need to take advantage of what they have and pitch to their strengths. I don't care how awesome MacDougal and Aardsma's sliders are, they are out pitches and need to be used that way.

downstairs
05-20-2007, 12:36 PM
Am I stupid for thinking now is a good time to pull a 2000 Detroit/White Sox stunt. Nail a few of their guys, get nailed back, brawl, get some nasty fire in this team?

That or, I don't know, start hitting and pitching.

I'm out of ideas.

SOXandILLINI
05-20-2007, 12:40 PM
Am I stupid for thinking now is a good time to pull a 2000 Detroit/White Sox stunt. Nail a few of their guys, get nailed back, brawl, get some nasty fire in this team?

That or, I don't know, start hitting and pitching.

I'm out of ideas.
i've never believed in starting that stuff, but one of the few things i have stood up for ozzie about is not letting it go unanswered, but the cubs have done nothing to warrant this, they beat us, plain and simple.

UserNameBlank
05-20-2007, 12:43 PM
Am I stupid for thinking now is a good time to pull a 2000 Detroit/White Sox stunt. Nail a few of their guys, get nailed back, brawl, get some nasty fire in this team?

That or, I don't know, start hitting and pitching.

I'm out of ideas.
I don't know how much that would help, but every time I see Barrett at the plate I wish someone would throw at his head and then AJ would hit him with a chair.

Unfortunately the Sox have too much class to sink to Barrett's level.

downstairs
05-20-2007, 12:52 PM
i've never believed in starting that stuff, but one of the few things i have stood up for ozzie about is not letting it go unanswered, but the cubs have done nothing to warrant this, they beat us, plain and simple.

Well, it's been used as a tool- just like a manager arguing a stupid play just to get tossed...

Fuller_Schettman
05-20-2007, 02:25 PM
It is always galling after you blow a pair of leads to the Flubs, which clearly is leading to a lot of the throwing out of the baby with the bathwater that we are seeing on this thread.

I never thought I would see the Flubs do the impossible: take our bullpen and make it look like theirs! That is probably the worst part of all of this- well, that and being in town to witness it.

But, I went to a local sports bar here in Warrenville tonight proudly wearing my World Series champs tee and I did get some comments from the many Flubsessed that were there. But I would just smile and point to the words "World Series" and that would do the trick every time. :cool: