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MCHSoxFan
05-18-2007, 04:00 PM
I got nothing!

nsdjoe
05-18-2007, 04:01 PM
Might be the ugliest game we play all season.

peeonwrigley
05-18-2007, 04:01 PM
What a piss poor effort, team really stuck it to Buehrle today.

salty99
05-18-2007, 04:01 PM
Loose?

LongLiveFisk
05-18-2007, 04:02 PM
Total, utter suckage.

soltrain21
05-18-2007, 04:02 PM
Its one thing to be in a hitting slump (all year). It's an entirely different thing to have stupid ****ing mental lapses.

UserNameBlank
05-18-2007, 04:02 PM
I think MacDougal forgot what team he was supposed to play for today. IMO, these errors don't happen if Mac doesn't puke all over the field.

oeo
05-18-2007, 04:02 PM
-Buehrle was good.
-MacDougal was ****.
-Hall needs to block that ball.
-Can we play some offense?

We can still take the series, let's start tomorrow.

jenn2080
05-18-2007, 04:02 PM
And The Flubs Win The World Series

Navarro's Talent
05-18-2007, 04:03 PM
Yeah, 4 errors will do that to ya. Things were looking up for most of this game, until Mac imploded.

Madvora
05-18-2007, 04:03 PM
MacDougal has been declining. I hope he's at the bottom with this one, because I couldn't imagine anything worse.

Mickster
05-18-2007, 04:03 PM
Official- Sox Loose Game 1 Of Round 1

Thank God they didn't lose!

WS in 05
05-18-2007, 04:03 PM
I thought we played more tight than loose

kidmccarthy
05-18-2007, 04:03 PM
**** this game. Maybe ozzie should be yelling at his players and not Mike North.

Uncle_Patrick
05-18-2007, 04:03 PM
Wow, well, it really took the whole team to **** up this one.

Blueprint1
05-18-2007, 04:04 PM
Oh boy that was a waste of time.

itsnotrequired
05-18-2007, 04:04 PM
Well its official: **** this team. Maybe ozzie should be yelling at his players and not Mike North.

Gimmie a break...

kidmccarthy
05-18-2007, 04:05 PM
I think its time to end the Pablo experiment.

MushMouth
05-18-2007, 04:05 PM
Ozuna and Hall were terrible in the field! wow...

We'll go get em tomorrow

roylestillman
05-18-2007, 04:05 PM
From the starting line-up through the pinch hitters in the 9th, this was Ozzie's worst.

oeo
05-18-2007, 04:05 PM
Well its official: **** this team. Maybe ozzie should be yelling at his players and not Mike North.

It's official? :?:

Carry on then, you won't be missed.

Madvora
05-18-2007, 04:05 PM
Not that it mattered at all, but how do you explain Mackowiak (.194) pinch hitting for Hall (2 for 3) when Pierzynski is on the bench (.246) ???

TDog
05-18-2007, 04:05 PM
Well its official: **** this team. Maybe ozzie should be yelling at his players and not Mike North.


What makes you think he isn't yelling at them in addition to yelling at Mike North.

HotelWhiteSox
05-18-2007, 04:05 PM
Not sure about Ozzie here

If you don't pinch hit for Buehrle there, why not leave him in instead of putting his game in the hands of someone else? Then MacDougal was in for way too long, can't believe he started the next inning, he obviously didn't have it.

Plus pinch hitting with Mackowiak? Is AJ being punished? Mackowiak can't even hit his weight and he weighs under 200 pounds.

RedHeadPaleHoser
05-18-2007, 04:05 PM
Cub fans will hang their hat on Casper's brilliant comment - "This is their best win of the season!!"

Pul - leeeeeeeze. Win tomorrow, spank them Sunday and take 2 of 3.

AnkleSox
05-18-2007, 04:06 PM
Wow, well, it really took the whole team to **** up this one.

By that you mean MacDougal?

MUsoxfan
05-18-2007, 04:06 PM
Why Ozzie brought MacDougal back out for the 8th I'l never know. I have no idea what positive things he saw in MacDougal that would lead him to believe he'd be effective in the 8th:angry:

QCIASOXFAN
05-18-2007, 04:06 PM
I agree with someones post in the gamethread, people need to settle down and stop making these games bigger then they are. It was just one game and we do have one tomorrow!

itsnotrequired
05-18-2007, 04:06 PM
I think its time to end the Pablo experiment.

What "experiment"? Filling in for injured players?

:rolleyes:

Uncle_Patrick
05-18-2007, 04:06 PM
Honestly, there's not much to say about this one...4 errors and MacDougal totally sucked. Slumping offense makes the Cubs bullpen look fantastic.

whitesoxfan
05-18-2007, 04:06 PM
MacDougal was garbage. I'm quickly losing confidence in this guy. He's extremely wild and when he does throw a strike, it's been hit lately. I know he had a good game yesterday, but this is the 2nd outing in a week where he's given up a lead of greater than one run.

Just have to take the series now.

Jerko
05-18-2007, 04:07 PM
That's what happens when you walk henry ****in Blanco with 2 outs. 11 hits against, 4 errors, a wild pitch? Lucky it was only 6-3. Their garbage (Blanco, Pagan, Dempster) outplayed our garbage (Ozuna, Terrero, MacDougal). And of course a guy with 1/3 of our hits had to get pinch hit for too. Oh well, tomorrow's another day.

PorkChopExpress
05-18-2007, 04:07 PM
Not that it mattered at all, but how do you explain Mackowiak (.194) pinch hitting for Hall (2 for 3) when Pierzynski is on the bench (.246) ???
1. Mac has a great record against the Cubs.

2. Ozzie may actually be upset with A.J. about that crap this morning.

Uncle_Patrick
05-18-2007, 04:07 PM
What "experiment"? Filling in for injured players?

:rolleyes:

Yes, these players should not get injured anymore. :tongue:

kidmccarthy
05-18-2007, 04:07 PM
It's official? :?:

Carry on then, you won't be missed.

Thanks, anyway this is my first major blowup of the season. We get three right...:D: I will live, just typing my frustration of bad fundamentals.

Blueprint1
05-18-2007, 04:07 PM
Cub fans will hang their hat on Casper's brilliant comment - "This is their best win of the season!!"

Pul - leeeeeeeze. Win tomorrow, spank them Sunday and take 2 of 3.

Well they have lost more than they have won.

NDSox12
05-18-2007, 04:07 PM
Not that it mattered at all, but how do you explain Mackowiak (.194) pinch hitting for Hall (2 for 3) when Pierzynski is on the bench (.246) ???

He was saving A.J. in hopes of getting a few runners on ahead of him. I have no problem with that. Pinch hitting for Hall might be a little questionable though.

peeonwrigley
05-18-2007, 04:08 PM
Everybody cheer up, Blue Chips is on HBO.

MeteorsSox4367
05-18-2007, 04:08 PM
There aren't many things that suck more than the Sox losing to the Cubs and having to hear crap from Cubs fans at work. Thanks for the pain, MacDougal.

Cellview22
05-18-2007, 04:08 PM
Well, I wasn't expecting much with Crede and Pierzynski out of the lineup today, but we had this one wrapped up until MacDougal came in. All he needed was 1 freakin out. Why not Aardsma? :angry:

Now I'm forced to keep the tv off until tomorrow's game to avoid seeing any highlights.

SOXandILLINI
05-18-2007, 04:08 PM
Not sure about Ozzie here

If you don't pinch hit for Buehrle there, why not leave him in instead of putting his game in the hands of someone else? Then MacDougal was in for way too long, can't believe he started the next inning, he obviously didn't have it.

Plus pinch hitting with Mackowiak? Is AJ being punished? Mackowiak can't even hit his weight and he weighs under 200 pounds.

maybe he'll answer that question, but i doubt it, he'd rather go mt. st. helens on the mike norths of the world.

JB98
05-18-2007, 04:09 PM
Not sure about Ozzie here

If you don't pinch hit for Buehrle there, why not leave him in instead of putting his game in the hands of someone else? Then MacDougal was in for way too long, can't believe he started the next inning, he obviously didn't have it.

Plus pinch hitting with Mackowiak? Is AJ being punished? Mackowiak can't even hit his weight and he weighs under 200 pounds.

If two men had reached base, you would have seen AJ. Why waste him in a situation where he can only produce one run? AJ would have hit in the pitcher's spot, if we had gotten that far.

It might be time to consider moving Aardsma into the primary right-handed set-up role. MacDougal is not getting the job done consistently enough. I was really encouraged by his outing yesterday against New York, but today was vomit-inducing.

Get well soon, Crede. We missed Joe's defense in that eighth inning. No excuse for trying for that DP on Theriot. Throw home and cut off the run, for Christ's sake.

TDog
05-18-2007, 04:09 PM
Not that it mattered at all, but how do you explain Mackowiak (.194) pinch hitting for Hall (2 for 3) when Pierzynski is on the bench (.246) ???

Why did the Cubs pinch hit Blanco in the 7th when there were better hitters on the bench? They were down by 2. The Sox were down by 3. AJ could have hit a home run and it wouldn't have meant anything because there weren't enough runners on base.

The walk to Blanco followed by the bloop single put the typing run on base. I'm as upset about that as I am about what followed.

thomas35forever
05-18-2007, 04:09 PM
Here's what I'm not happy about over the last few innings. Why the hell does Ozzie bring in Macdougal in a situation like that?? Why does he live him in the inning after giving up the lead and not pulling him until too late? Just what we need...to risk falling further behind with a pitcher with an ERA over five.

Also, why the hell was Hall attempting to throw out a runner in the eighth? We know he can't throw runners out, and he picks the worst possible time to try it, and coming off an injury too. This game should've been in the bag.

JB98
05-18-2007, 04:09 PM
maybe he'll answer that question, but i doubt it, he'd rather go mt. st. helens on the mike norths of the world.

He shouldn't have to answer that question, because it's a dumb question.

dcb56
05-18-2007, 04:09 PM
What the **** was Ozzie doing with Buehrle? First off, why do you pull him (and don't give me the "Because Ozzie didn't want him to lose the game" bull****) in that situation, secondly, if such a short hook is necessary why the **** don't you just pinch hit for him in the top half of the inning (ESPECIALLY WITH 1 OUT AND A RUNNER IN SCORING POSITION), and finally of all the pitchers he could bring in why did he go with a guy who's been really struggling lately?

What a waste by the Sox, they had one and let it get away. Not acceptable no matter who the opponent.

oeo
05-18-2007, 04:09 PM
Not sure about Ozzie here

If you don't pinch hit for Buehrle there, why not leave him in instead of putting his game in the hands of someone else? Then MacDougal was in for way too long, can't believe he started the next inning, he obviously didn't have it.

Let me first say that I think Buehrle should have finished the inning, but he didn't so, whatever.

Back to MacDougal...he threw a first pitch fastball that got mashed. It's not the first time we've ever seen a first pitch fastball. Then our catcher did not block a ball that should have been blocked. After the first hit in the 8th I think he should have been pulled, but I don't think it was 'obvious that he didn't have it' after his first inning.

Plus pinch hitting with Mackowiak? Is AJ being punished? Mackowiak can't even hit his weight and he weighs under 200 pounds.
Yes, Ozzie hates AJ, just like he hates Brian.

kidmccarthy
05-18-2007, 04:09 PM
At least Buehrle looked sharp. Any word on Joe?

RockJock07
05-18-2007, 04:10 PM
Worst game all year....This team will not go to the playoffs if they only score 3 runs a game. I hang this loss on Ozzie and Mac.

Ozzie should have had Terrero bunt over Hall when he lead off with a double but Erstad, the only one who is hitting right now, bailed him out.

Secondly, Mac? Why him? He has been used to much, what about Aardsma? Then Logan, jesus Ozzie, use you horses, use the guys that you have been steller for you this year.

I've seen alot of bad baseball from the sox over the years, but i've never seen them self-destruct like the did in the last 3-4 innings. Everything the Cubs hit was falling, Mac can't throw a strike to save his like, Rob is up there in the 9th hacking away when we need base runners!

It's time to make a move, it's been about 40 games, the offense still blows, Kenny needs to be creative and bring in someone....worst game of the season

Madvora
05-18-2007, 04:10 PM
1. Mac has a great record against the Cubs.

2. Ozzie may actually be upset with A.J. about that crap this morning.

1. If that's the way Ozzie was thinking then that's just stupid. He's hitting in the .190's NOW.

2. If that's the case then he needs to be fired for putting personal crap in front of his job (and I don't think he's that dumb)

soxinthecity
05-18-2007, 04:11 PM
Buehrle had good stuff, I still don't understand why Ozzie pulled him.
Just over a hundred pitches and good control all day, Ozzie needs to start going with his gut instead of the numbers.

Patrick134
05-18-2007, 04:11 PM
I think its time to end the Pablo experiment.

No experiment, the sole reason he was there was because Crede got hit in the face during BP.

Brian26
05-18-2007, 04:11 PM
I got nothing!

Your spelling sucks too.

soxfanatlanta
05-18-2007, 04:12 PM
MacDougal had no business being put into that situation; Guillen screwed up.

Madvora
05-18-2007, 04:12 PM
Ozzie should have had Terrero bunt over Hall when he lead off with a double but Erstad, the only one who is hitting right now, bailed him out.

That wouldn't work because Buehrle was on deck, you'd be wasting two outs in a row.

TDog
05-18-2007, 04:12 PM
If two men had reached base, you would have seen AJ. Why waste him in a situation where he can only produce one run? AJ would have hit in the pitcher's spot, if we had gotten that far.

It might be time to consider moving Aardsma into the primary right-handed set-up role. MacDougal is not getting the job done consistently enough. I was really encouraged by his outing yesterday against New York, but today was vomit-inducing.

Get well soon, Crede. We missed Joe's defense in that eighth inning. No excuse for trying for that DP on Theriot. Throw home and cut off the run, for Christ's sake.

Well put. I was surprised Aardsma didn't come in to face Pagan. The only thing I can figure is there was concern for the way Aardsma might have handled the situation against his former team.

RockJock07
05-18-2007, 04:13 PM
I agree with someones post in the gamethread, people need to settle down and stop making these games bigger then they are. It was just one game and we do have one tomorrow!

ONE GAME? have you watched a Sox game this year? They can't hit, the use of the bench has been awful, pitcher selection has been shady, this isn't just one game, open your eyes, this has been a problem ALL SEASON!

oeo
05-18-2007, 04:14 PM
Buehrle had good stuff, I still don't understand why Ozzie pulled him.
Just over a hundred pitches, Ozzie needs to start going with his gut instead of the numbers.

Alright, like I said before, I think Buehrle should have finished the inning...but Buehrle did not have his best stuff all day. There were a ton of hard hit balls that we got lucky on. I think he should have stayed in, but I'm not going to be pissed off that he didn't because he was not at the top of his game.

I don't think we put this one solely on MacDougal. His fastball got hit...we can whine and cry about it, or we can go out and win tomorrow.

MCHSoxFan
05-18-2007, 04:14 PM
Your spelling sucks too.

I was in a hurry.

This one is for you. The Sox lose today. How is that? :angry:

MUsoxfan
05-18-2007, 04:14 PM
Well put. I was surprised Aardsma didn't come in to face Pagan. The only thing I can figure is there was concern for the way Aardsma might have handled the situation against his former team.


Ozzie loves throwing guys into the fire like that (i.e. MacDougal and Sisco in KC). I just think Ozzie ****ed up

SOXandILLINI
05-18-2007, 04:14 PM
Let me first say that I think Buehrle should have finished the inning, but he didn't so, whatever.

Back to MacDougal...he threw a first pitch fastball that got mashed. It's not the first time we've ever seen a first pitch fastball. Then our catcher did not block a ball that should have been blocked. After the first hit in the 8th I think he should have been pulled, but I don't think it was 'obvious that he didn't have it' after his first inning.


Yes, Ozzie hates AJ, just like he hates Brian.

i really don't think ozzie hates aj, but if you think he doesn't have a hard on for brian anderson, you need to look again. and i say this, not being the president of the brian anderson fan club, so don't lay the, brian anderson lover label on me. ozzie has his favorites and his, let's say less than favorites. rob mackowiak and pablo are ozzies "pets."

Thome25
05-18-2007, 04:14 PM
I'm SICK of these piss-poor efforts. Poor managing one minute, poor hitting the next minute, mediocre pitching the minute after that.<<<<<These three are the theme this season so far.

It's early but, this team isn't going anywhere this season.

kidmccarthy
05-18-2007, 04:14 PM
No experiment, the sole reason he was there was because Crede got hit in the face during BP.

But if I remember correctly, Mack was brought here to be a utility infielder, and he hits lefties somewhat effectively. So Pablo did'nt have to be used, he could have shifted to left and Mack at third. But I dont wear #13.

HotelWhiteSox
05-18-2007, 04:14 PM
Yes, Ozzie hates AJ, just like he hates Brian.

I didn't say it as a random 'he hates him' thing, I brought up punishment since there was an incident this morning, if you haven't looked through the clubhouse yet

Uncle_Patrick
05-18-2007, 04:14 PM
MacDougal had no business being put into that situation; Guillen screwed up.
Well, the thing is, that's MacDougal's job and he royally ****ed up. The triple is bad, but then to throw a wild pitch with the go ahead run on 3rd? I'm not really defending Ozzie, but if MacDougal can't hold a lead with runners on and 2 outs, he has no business in the bullpen.

infohawk
05-18-2007, 04:14 PM
I'm not too upset about losing the game. Here's my concern...it's now May 18 and the bat's are still inconsistent and cold as ice. That's a long time for Konerko, Dye, Iguchi and Crede to still be struggling. I keep telling myself that they "have" to hit at some point, but what if they all simply have "career bad" years? Last year was the pitching. That's largely been fixed through upgrades and guys bouncing back to their career norms. This year the offense has been afflicted with whatever attacked the pitching last year. If you're KW and the offense is still scuffling by the trade deadline, what do you do?

I'll add that I know Thome and Podsednik are coming back, but that's just another "event" that may come and go without any improvement to the guys who are struggling right now.

LongLiveFisk
05-18-2007, 04:15 PM
Their garbage (Blanco, Pagan, Dempster) outplayed our garbage (Ozuna, Terrero, MacDougal).

This is true--no AJ, no Thome, no Crede...I just wish our garbage could have beaten theirs today.

Blueprint1
05-18-2007, 04:16 PM
When is it alright to blame Greg Walker for the whole team hitting around .200.

JB98
05-18-2007, 04:16 PM
Well put. I was surprised Aardsma didn't come in to face Pagan. The only thing I can figure is there was concern for the way Aardsma might have handled the situation against his former team.

I suppose that's a concern, but I sincerely doubt Dave could have done any worse than Mac did.

TDog
05-18-2007, 04:16 PM
Buehrle had good stuff, I still don't understand why Ozzie pulled him.
Just over a hundred pitches and good control all day, Ozzie needs to start going with his gut instead of the numbers.

It wasn't the pitch count as much as the fact that Pagan had hit Buehrle well and was facing him for the fourth time. I would have pulled Buehrle too. Really if he wasn't tiring, he probably wouldn't have walked Blanco. I would have put Aardsma in, but you can only speculate that Aardsma would have retired Pagan.

MUsoxfan
05-18-2007, 04:16 PM
This is true--no AJ, no Thome, no Crede...I just wish our garbage could have beaten theirs today.

God, how I hate getting beat by anyone's garbage. Dempster looked ****ing awful yesterday and he comes in today and gets 3 out with barely trying.

Brian26
05-18-2007, 04:16 PM
I was in a hurry.

Are you trying to win the contest for the guy who can start the most postgame threads with at least one spelling mistake?

:?:

PorkChopExpress
05-18-2007, 04:17 PM
But if I remember correctly, Mack was brought here to be a utility infielder, and he hits lefties somewhat effectively. So Pablo did'nt have to be used, he could have shifted to left and Mack at third. But I dont wear #13.

But Lilly is a lefty and Ozzie likes the lefty-righty matchup. Hence Terrero and Ozuna over Sweeney and Rob.

oeo
05-18-2007, 04:17 PM
MacDougal had no business being put into that situation; Guillen screwed up.

Are you ****ing kidding me? :rolling:

Another case of, "I'm smarter than Ozzie." If your so smart, don't say something stupid like this.

TheOldRoman
05-18-2007, 04:17 PM
What a piss poor effort, team really stuck it to Buehrle today.
I don't feel sorry for Buehrle. He should have been walking to the dugout after facing Blanco, who is a horrible, horrible hitter. He inexplicable walked him, and then gave up a hit to a mediocre at best Theriot. Buehrle doused the lighter fluid, MacDougal lit the torch and threw it.
This was an absolutely horrible effort. Walkerball let the team down as much as MacDougal did. Lily, who is very bad, had trouble finding the strikezone. What do the hitters do? Swing at first pitches. A bad pitcher, without his best stuff = severe pounding. The Sox should have had 6 or 7 runs by the time Buehrle walked Blanco.

Cellview22
05-18-2007, 04:18 PM
Crede looked fine on the bench. He had a towel over his swolen face, but seriously, it shouldn't affect his swinging or defense at 3rd. It couldn't have been worse than Steve Nash's nose injury... He should've been out there today.

shoelessshaun27!
05-18-2007, 04:18 PM
Bullpen really sucked this game.:angry:

MUsoxfan
05-18-2007, 04:18 PM
I don't feel sorry for Buehrle. He should have been walking to the dugout after facing Blanco, who is a horrible, horrible hitter. He inexplicable walked him, and then gave up a hit to a mediocre at best Theriot. Buehrle doused the lighter fluid, MacDougal lit the torch and threw it.
This was an absolutely horrible effort. Walkerball let the team down as much as MacDougal did. Lily, who is very bad, had trouble finding the strikezone. What do the hitters do? Swing at first pitches. A bad pitcher, without his best stuff = severe pounding. The Sox should have had 6 or 7 runs by the time Buehrle walked Blanco.

That's an excellent post.

TheOldRoman
05-18-2007, 04:19 PM
When is it alright to blame Greg Walker for the whole team hitting around .200.
Forget blame (because it is his fault). HE NEEDS TO BE FIRED. Even if he wasn't a terrible hitting coach, the hitting coach needs to be fired after this kind of start.

ondafarm
05-18-2007, 04:19 PM
I agree with someones post in the gamethread, people need to settle down and stop making these games bigger then they are. It was just one game and we do have one tomorrow!

I 100% disagree with this statement.

Chapionship teams don't give away games. They do get beat, but they don't just give them away. This one was given away.

Dan Mega
05-18-2007, 04:19 PM
And The Flubs Win The World Series

:rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

dcb56
05-18-2007, 04:19 PM
It wasn't the pitch count as much as the fact that Pagan had hit Buehrle well and was facing him for the fourth time. I would have pulled Buehrle too. Really if he wasn't tiring, he probably wouldn't have walked Blanco. I would have put Aardsma in, but you can only speculate that Aardsma would have retired Pagan.

OK, well if Buehrle was tiring at that point in the game why didn't Ozzie pinch hit for him, especially with a runner in scoring position and only one out, in the top of the 7th and then go to the bullpen for the bottom half of the inning? Either way Ozzie dropped the ball.

eriqjaffe
05-18-2007, 04:19 PM
I am so glad I turned down tickets today.

SOXandILLINI
05-18-2007, 04:19 PM
i agree with you for the most part roman. buerhle, a control pitcher walks that piece of crap blanco.

chisoxmike
05-18-2007, 04:20 PM
The Sox can't hit much right now, and when its coming out of a lefties hand, they probably wont even foul it off.

I'm surprised to see the piss poor effort from the defense and pitching today, there's just no excuse for that. I hope the "Sunday" lineup isn't out there tomorrow. Win tomorrow and Sunday and we get our fifth straight series win.

Jerko
05-18-2007, 04:20 PM
Are you trying to win the contest for the guy who can start the most postgame threads with at least one spelling mistake?

:?:

No, he just wants to start them a millisecond after the game ends.

oeo
05-18-2007, 04:21 PM
Enough about MacDougal...how about we talk about how Toby Hall cannot block a ball with the leading run on third? I'm as pissed off as everyone else, but let's not blame this game soley on Ozzie and MacDougal...our catcher has to do whatever it takes to keep that ball in front of him. The leading run is on third...you put your body in front of that, and if it takes putting your shoulder in front of it, do it.

nsdjoe
05-18-2007, 04:22 PM
On top of all this, I'll be shocked if both Detroit and Cleveland don't each take two out of three this weekend, and there's a really good chance they'll each sweep.

Thome25
05-18-2007, 04:22 PM
I 100% disagree with this statement.

Chapionship teams don't give away games. They do get beat, but they don't just give them away. This one was given away.

This is the perfect point. The Sox look like one of those up and down mediocre teams that throws (and chokes) games away.

Championship caliber teams don't choke away this many games early in the season and look as terrible as the Sox do.

MUsoxfan
05-18-2007, 04:23 PM
Enough about MacDougal...how about we talk about how Toby Hall cannot block a ball with the leading run on third? I'm as pissed off as everyone else, but let's not blame this game soley on Ozzie and MacDougal...our catcher has to do whatever it takes to keep that ball in front of him. The leading run is on third...you put your body in front of that, and if it takes putting your shoulder in front of it, do it.

It's not exactly easy to block a 59ft slider that's nowhere near where it's supposed to be.

dwalteroo
05-18-2007, 04:23 PM
The Sox need to trade for a bat, immediately. I don't care if the guy who leaves goes .400 the rest of the season. We have been cold long enough.

Patrick134
05-18-2007, 04:23 PM
Crede looked fine on the bench. He had a towel over his swolen face, but seriously, it shouldn't affect his swinging or defense at 3rd. It couldn't have been worse than Steve Nash's nose injury... He should've been out there today.


Well there's a worthless diagnosis. Thanks, Doc.

JB98
05-18-2007, 04:24 PM
Enough about MacDougal...how about we talk about how Toby Hall cannot block a ball with the leading run on third? I'm as pissed off as everyone else, but let's not blame this game soley on Ozzie and MacDougal...our catcher has to do whatever it takes to keep that ball in front of him. The leading run is on third...you put your body in front of that, and if it takes putting your shoulder in front of it, do it.

Agreed, but it's also true that Hall had two hits today. He was one of the few who had a clue at home plate. This was Toby's first game: He did some good things; he did some not-so-good things.

oeo
05-18-2007, 04:24 PM
i really don't think ozzie hates aj, but if you think he doesn't have a hard on for brian anderson, you need to look again. and i say this, not being the president of the brian anderson fan club, so don't lay the, brian anderson lover label on me. ozzie has his favorites and his, let's say less than favorites. rob mackowiak and pablo are ozzies "pets."

This is a baseless assumption, and it pisses me off that I have to keep reading this stupid ****.

Patrick134
05-18-2007, 04:25 PM
i agree with you for the most part roman. buerhle, a control pitcher walks that piece of crap blanco.


While Blanco does suck, he inexplicably has done well against mark, with a few homers i believe.

JB98
05-18-2007, 04:25 PM
This is a baseless assumption, and it pisses me off that I have to keep reading this stupid ****.

You have to understand SOXandILLINI hates Guillen. He only posts here to make self-righteous rants against our manager.

oeo
05-18-2007, 04:26 PM
Agreed, but it's also true that Hall had two hits today. He was one of the few who had a clue at home plate. This was Toby's first game: He did some good things; he did some not-so-good things.

He got a couple hits and scored a run...and did not do his job behind the plate. He doesn't get a pass because it was his first game, he's been playing catcher for who knows how long now. As a backup catcher, I would have rather have seen him get in front of that ball than hit the double.

UserNameBlank
05-18-2007, 04:26 PM
Well its official: **** this team. Maybe ozzie should be yelling at his players and not Mike North.
Maybe Ozzie should be yelling at himself, too.

Ozzie was the genious who decided not to bunt with Terrero when Hall was on 2B with no outs and the Sox were up 2-1. If he didn't want a righty bunting against Lily he could have subbed Mack or Sweeney in for him to put the bunt down and then play LF. Instead, Terrero K's, Ozzie sends Buehrle up when Masset is warm in the pen, Buehrle K's IIRC, and then Erstad bails Ozzie out with the clutch 2-out RBI double.

Then Ozzie brings MacDougal in with 2 out. Not that it was a bad move, but Mac comes in and before getting the one damn out he needs to end the inning, Mac throws a slider thigh high over the middle of the plate for a 3 run triple to tie the game. Then he throws the WP to give the Cubs the lead. Then a solid single up the middle. Finally he gets the out. Now, the Sox are only down 1 at this point, so does Ozzie go with a new reliever to start the next inning since MacDougal has been ****? Nope. He leaves him out there to throw the damn game away.

This loss isn't because of Ozzie, but if the Sox score 1 in the ninth before going down it would have been. Ozzie will blow games for us this year, and when he does, I hope people notice it.

CLR01
05-18-2007, 04:27 PM
This is a baseless assumption, and it pisses me off that I have to keep reading this stupid ****.

I'm getting tired of reading your complaining about having to read "stupid ****".

soxtalker
05-18-2007, 04:27 PM
Enough about MacDougal...how about we talk about how Toby Hall cannot block a ball with the leading run on third? I'm as pissed off as everyone else, but let's not blame this game soley on Ozzie and MacDougal...our catcher has to do whatever it takes to keep that ball in front of him. The leading run is on third...you put your body in front of that, and if it takes putting your shoulder in front of it, do it.

I'm also concerned about the errors, but, IIRC, that run would have scored anyway on the base hit that followed.

I'm missing one of the errors. Hall had the passed ball, and threw one away. Hopefully, this is just because he is rusty; he didn't spend that much time at AAA. Ozuna had one of the errors. What was the other one?

JB98
05-18-2007, 04:28 PM
He got a couple hits and scored a run...and did not do his job behind the plate. He doesn't get a pass because it was his first game, he's been playing catcher for who knows how long now. As a backup catcher, I would have rather have seen him get in front of that ball than hit the double.

Basically, he produced a run, and he let in a run. It's a wash. The wild pitch/passed ball doesn't matter much anyway given that MacDougal continued to implode by giving up hits to Soriano and Ramirez.

oeo
05-18-2007, 04:28 PM
It's not exactly easy to block a 59ft slider that's nowhere near where it's supposed to be.

You put your body in front of it. Toby didn't move anything but his mitt.

AJ isn't the best of defensive catchers, and if you notice, he will be all over a ball with a man on third.

TDog
05-18-2007, 04:28 PM
OK, well if Buehrle was tiring at that point in the game why didn't Ozzie pinch hit for him, especially with a runner in scoring position and only one out, in the top of the 7th and then go to the bullpen for the bottom half of the inning? Either way Ozzie dropped the ball.

Buehrle should have been able to get the bottom of the order. He almost did. That would have set up the bullpen for ht 8th and 9th. He didn't get the .214 hitter, giving him a free pass. The next guy apparently didn't hit him well, but got on base. When Theriot was hitting, I wrote in chat that this was Buehrle's last hitter because it was obvious. If he retires Theriot, he comes out. If he doesn't, you don't want him going for the fourth time against a guy who has been hitting him well.

I'm not second guessing. If Theriot's hit had carried to Dye, the Sox might have won. The problem isn't that Guillen pulled Buehrle. The problem really isn't even that Theriot got a hit. The problem was that MacDougal didn't do his job.

SouthSideSid
05-18-2007, 04:29 PM
Isn't there some right hander in the minors who can do a better job than MacDougal is doing right now? Toby was probably injured again taking all those balls in the dirt.

RockJock07
05-18-2007, 04:29 PM
Enough about MacDougal...how about we talk about how Toby Hall cannot block a ball with the leading run on third? I'm as pissed off as everyone else, but let's not blame this game soley on Ozzie and MacDougal...our catcher has to do whatever it takes to keep that ball in front of him. The leading run is on third...you put your body in front of that, and if it takes putting your shoulder in front of it, do it.

Hall missed a ball, so what, he hasn't played all year and he goes 2 for 3. I'll blame Ozzie for poor game management and Macdougal for being awful today.

The Sox need offense, if they would have scored runs today, what MacDongal did wouldn't have mattered most likely. Game in and Game out, the sox make the opposing pitcher look like cy young, from Jose De La Rose to Lilly today they just can't seem to hit and when Rob goes up there and swings at every pitch that doesn't make things any better.

I'm a die-hard fan, but after this Cubs series, i'm going to take a break unless i see 10+ runs in the next two games, or better pitcher management by Ozzie. The Sox need to show their fans they want to win.

JB98
05-18-2007, 04:31 PM
I'm also concerned about the errors, but, IIRC, that run would have scored anyway on the base hit that followed.

I'm missing one of the errors. Hall had the passed ball, and threw one away. Hopefully, this is just because he is rusty; he didn't spend that much time at AAA. Ozuna had one of the errors. What was the other one?

Dye's throw back into the infield skipped away from Hall in the sixth, allowing Ramirez to take an extra base.

NSSoxFan
05-18-2007, 04:32 PM
I'm a die-hard fan, but after this Cubs series, i'm going to take a break unless i see 10+ runs in the next two games, or better pitcher management by Ozzie. The Sox need to show their fans they want to win.

Why wait until after the Cubs series?

SOXandILLINI
05-18-2007, 04:32 PM
This is a baseless assumption, and it pisses me off that I have to keep reading this stupid ****.

baseless assumption for ozzie apologists like yourself, which you most certainly are.

HotelWhiteSox
05-18-2007, 04:34 PM
Ozzie postgame -

"I know a lot of people gonna blame Toby"...no, some are blaming you...

"MacDougal throw the ball good" :?:

NSSoxFan
05-18-2007, 04:34 PM
baseless assumption for ozzie apologists like yourself, which you most certainly are.

Ozzie didn't lose the game, unless he was pitching in the 7th.

oeo
05-18-2007, 04:36 PM
baseless assumption for ozzie apologists like yourself, which you most certainly are.

Give me some evidence that Pablo and Mackowiak are his "pets." When someone comes around that can consistently play in that last outfield spot, and then Ozzie plays Pablo and Mackowiak, then you can call them his "pets," but we don't have that right now and we didn't have it last year.

VenturaFan23
05-18-2007, 04:36 PM
I don't feel sorry for Buehrle. He should have been walking to the dugout after facing Blanco, who is a horrible, horrible hitter. He inexplicable walked him, and then gave up a hit to a mediocre at best Theriot. Buehrle doused the lighter fluid, MacDougal lit the torch and threw it.
This was an absolutely horrible effort. Walkerball let the team down as much as MacDougal did. Lily, who is very bad, had trouble finding the strikezone. What do the hitters do? Swing at first pitches. A bad pitcher, without his best stuff = severe pounding. The Sox should have had 6 or 7 runs by the time Buehrle walked Blanco.

Ah the voice of reason! I only saw the game online, but it appeared we were hacking away. But Mac still sucked though.

UserNameBlank
05-18-2007, 04:36 PM
Why Ozzie brought MacDougal back out for the 8th I'l never know. I have no idea what positive things he saw in MacDougal that would lead him to believe he'd be effective in the 8th:angry:
It's funny how posters on WSI can see Ozzie's obvious managerial errors yet the entire Sox organization can not. I wish we had a fair broadcast team because I'd love to hear it called the same way everyone else sees it.

There is a reason Steve Stone will never be in our broadcast booth, and it's a damn shame. I doubt McDowell ever will be in there fulltime either for the same reason.

veeter
05-18-2007, 04:36 PM
Nobody's mentioning the weirdest/ stupidest move by Ozzie. The score was still 4-3, second and third one out. Cliff Floyd comes up with first base open, and they pitch to him. Don't you automatically put him on and bring in Aardsma, for either the strikout or DP? Instead he uses Logan to apparently strike out Floyd. He hits the chopper. Then he leaves in lefty Logan to face righty Theriot. Ozzie made no sense to me today.

TDog
05-18-2007, 04:36 PM
Maybe Ozzie should be yelling at himself, too.

Ozzie was the genious who decided not to bunt with Terrero when Hall was on 2B with no outs and the Sox were up 2-1. If he didn't want a righty bunting against Lily he could have subbed Mack or Sweeney in for him to put the bunt down and then play LF. Instead, Terrero K's, Ozzie sends Buehrle up when Masset is warm in the pen, Buehrle K's IIRC, and then Erstad bails Ozzie out with the clutch 2-out RBI double. ...

You realize that if the Sox had played for 1 run in that situation the upside would have been 1 run -- which is exactly what the Sox got in that inning. Guillen's moves turned out to work as well as the moves that "should have been made."

I wouldn't have bunted either in that situation. One of the complaints I have with Guillen is that he too often bunts in that situation. The old school fundamental play is to hit the ball to the right side. The only way Guillen would have bunted in that situation is if he planned to pinch hit for Buehrle. You expect Buehrle to strike out in that situation.

JB98
05-18-2007, 04:38 PM
You realize that if the Sox had played for 1 run in that situation the upside would have been 1 run -- which is exactly what the Sox got in that inning. Guillen's moves turned out to work as well as the moves that "should have been made."

I wouldn't have bunted either in that situation. One of the complaints I have with Guillen is that he too often bunts in that situation. The old school fundamental play is to hit the ball to the right side. The only way Guillen would have bunted in that situation is if he planned to pinch hit for Buehrle. You expect Buehrle to strike out in that situation.

We don't have a soul on this club who can execute a bunt anyway. Why bother trying?

SOXandILLINI
05-18-2007, 04:38 PM
Give me some evidence that Pablo and Mackowiak are his "pets." When someone comes around that can consistently play in that last outfield spot, and then Ozzie plays them, then you can call them his "pets," but we don't have that right now.
you have got to be kidding me... ozzie lost at least 4-5 games last year playing rob in center field, and it's not robs fault, he's not a center fielder. with this last post of yours, it just proves that you have your head in the sand when it comes to ozzie, enjoy him, while he lasts, because he will embarrass the organization to the point where he will eventually be fired.

Lip Man 1
05-18-2007, 04:40 PM
It's always difficult to lose a game at anytime to the Cubs but the way the Sox flat out gave the game away today is even harder to take.

Four errors is bad enough but the bullpen....I mean it's already at five games the bullpen has directly lost where the Sox took a lead into the 7th inning or later this season.

Last year (and practically everyone agrees the bullpen was bad last season) the bullpen 'only' gave away nine games.

Lip

JB98
05-18-2007, 04:40 PM
you have got to be kidding me... ozzie lost at least 4-5 games last year playing rob in center field, and it's not robs fault, he's not a center fielder. with this last post of yours, it just proves that you have your head in the sand when it comes to ozzie, enjoy him, while he lasts, because he will embarrass the organization to the point where he will eventually be fired.

:dtroll:

SOXandILLINI
05-18-2007, 04:40 PM
Nobody's mentioning the weirdest/ stupidest move by Ozzie. The score was still 4-3, second and third one out. Cliff Floyd comes up with first base open, and they pitch to him. Don't you automatically put him on and bring in Aardsma, for either the strikout or DP? Instead he uses Logan to apparently strike out Floyd. He hits the chopper. Then he leaves in lefty Logan to face righty Theriot. Ozzie made no sense to me today.

TODAY?

oeo
05-18-2007, 04:41 PM
you have got to be kidding me... ozzie lost at least 4-5 games last year playing rob in center field, and it's not robs fault, he's not a center fielder. with this last post of yours, it just proves that you have your head in the sand when it comes to ozzie, enjoy him, while he lasts, because he will embarrass the organization to the point where he will eventually be fired.

Because we didn't have a viable centerfielder last year.

It's not Rob's fault, it's not Ozzie's fault...we should have had a backup that could play center if Brian didn't pan out. That hole was exposed last year.

This year we got that in Erstad. Now if our leadoff hitter didn't go down to injury, we wouldn't need to see Pablo or Mackowiak out there everyday.

TDog
05-18-2007, 04:41 PM
Nobody's mentioning the weirdest/ stupidest move by Ozzie. The score was still 4-3, second and third one out. Cliff Floyd comes up with first base open, and they pitch to him. Don't you automatically put him on and bring in Aardsma, for either the strikout or DP? Instead he uses Logan to apparently strike out Floyd. He hits the chopper. Then he leaves in lefty Logan to face righty Theriot. Ozzie made no sense to me today.

I wouldn't have walked Floyd in that situation either. But I wouldn't have intentionally walked Torii Hunter in Minnesota. I believe that intentionally walk cost the Sox the game. When you have some time to waste, check out how many intentional walks come around to score.

SOXandILLINI
05-18-2007, 04:41 PM
:dtroll:
got me there.

SOXandILLINI
05-18-2007, 04:42 PM
Because we didn't have a viable centerfielder last year.

It's not Rob's fault, it's not Ozzie's fault...we should have had a backup that could play center if Brian didn't pan out. That hole was exposed last year.

what has ozzie always claimed to be about? defense... did rob hit .340 last year, and i missed it?.... keep excusing.

Chisox353014
05-18-2007, 04:42 PM
Glad I was at work and didn't see this one.
Oh well, losing to those idiots doesn't bother me anywhere near as much as it did pre-2005. Mental mistakes and scoring 3 runs or less for the gazillionth game in row does, however. :angry:

JB98
05-18-2007, 04:42 PM
got me there.

:dtroll: :dtroll:

SOXandILLINI
05-18-2007, 04:43 PM
:dtroll: :dtroll:
twice, you are an incredible intellect.

UserNameBlank
05-18-2007, 04:44 PM
You realize that if the Sox had played for 1 run in that situation the upside would have been 1 run -- which is exactly what the Sox got in that inning. Guillen's moves turned out to work as well as the moves that "should have been made."

I wouldn't have bunted either in that situation. One of the complaints I have with Guillen is that he too often bunts in that situation. The old school fundamental play is to hit the ball to the right side. The only way Guillen would have bunted in that situation is if he planned to pinch hit for Buehrle. You expect Buehrle to strike out in that situation.

Our offense is one *****hair away from being nonexistant right now. Whether anyone likes it or not, this team has to play to win one-two run games right now. Bunting is part of that.

It would be one thing if the score was say 6-5 Sox or something, but in a 2-1 game I think you have to, especially when the next two hitters coming up are Luis Terrero and Mark Buehrle.

I think Mark should have been taken out there. I guess we will disagree there, but I'd rather take the chance to enter the 7th with the bullpen and a 2 run lead instead of with Mark and a 1 run lead. We have a bullpen that is at least normally capable of holding the lead up two from the 7th on.

thomas35forever
05-18-2007, 04:44 PM
twice, you are an incredible intellect.
Hey hey, no attacking posters.

SOXandILLINI
05-18-2007, 04:45 PM
Hey hey, no attacking posters.

it was a compliment

RockJock07
05-18-2007, 04:46 PM
What about this possible trade....

Joe Crede, 1-2 AAA pitchers (Phillips or Heager)

for

Ichiro

I know the M's have beltre, but he's been awful since signing there and the M's might move him to whoever will give them a AAA pitcher.

I think either Ichiro or Carl Crawford would make a big improvement. Put CC or Ichiro in leadoff, bat Erstad 2nd, followed by Dye, Thome, Konerko, AJ, josh fields, uribe, Tadahito.

Thoughts?

veeter
05-18-2007, 04:46 PM
I wouldn't have walked Floyd in that situation either. But I wouldn't have intentionally walked Torii Hunter in Minnesota. I believe that intentionally walk cost the Sox the game. When you have some time to waste, check out how many intentional walks come around to score.Yes, but we were already losing. You're just trying to stop the bleeding at that point. Pitching to Floyd, a good veteran hitter was just dumb. All he had to do was put the bat on the ball, and that's what he did.

Jerko
05-18-2007, 04:47 PM
I know we played with half a team today, but losing a 2 run lead that late in the game is pretty bad. I don't always agree with OZ but his hands were tied today with Crede getting hurt; we're stuck with either Mack (ugh) or Pablo (ugh) at 3rd. Letfy on the mound, Pablo at 3rd, even though IIRC Lily does BETTER against righties......... I just hope North-gate doesn't blossom like Stone-gate did a few years ago. Hopefully Cards and Reds can shock us and win a game this weekend.

NSSoxFan
05-18-2007, 04:47 PM
What about this possible trade....

Joe Crede, 1-2 AAA pitchers (Phillips or Heager)

for

Ichiro

I know the M's have beltre, but he's been awful since signing there and the M's might move him to whoever will give them a AAA pitcher.

I think either Ichiro or Carl Crawford would make a big improvement. Put CC or Ichiro in leadoff, bat Erstad 2nd, followed by Dye, Thome, Konerko, AJ, josh fields, uribe, Tadahito.

Thoughts?

Wow. What is KW waiting for!?

:rolleyes:

UserNameBlank
05-18-2007, 04:48 PM
What about this possible trade....

Joe Crede, 1-2 AAA pitchers (Phillips or Heager)

for

Ichiro

I know the M's have beltre, but he's been awful since signing there and the M's might move him to whoever will give them a AAA pitcher.

I think either Ichiro or Carl Crawford would make a big improvement. Put CC or Ichiro in leadoff, bat Erstad 2nd, followed by Dye, Thome, Konerko, AJ, josh fields, uribe, Tadahito.

Thoughts?

If Fields came up right now... wow.

You think the back and forth on BA was bad? Fields would be at least twice as worse, because he has a much higher offensive ceiling and he would be just as bad if not worse than BA at the plate.

BTW, the M's have Beltre. What do they need Crede for if they can't dump Beltre's contract?

veeter
05-18-2007, 04:49 PM
What about this possible trade....

Joe Crede, 1-2 AAA pitchers (Phillips or Heager)

for

Ichiro

I know the M's have beltre, but he's been awful since signing there and the M's might move him to whoever will give them a AAA pitcher.

I think either Ichiro or Carl Crawford would make a big improvement. Put CC or Ichiro in leadoff, bat Erstad 2nd, followed by Dye, Thome, Konerko, AJ, josh fields, uribe, Tadahito.

Thoughts?Are you out of your mind? This was one loss. The Sox WERE only 3.5 games out of first, without coming close to any offense. We're starting trade talks after one game? We win tomorrow, everyone can calm down.

cbone
05-18-2007, 04:50 PM
Crappy game, 124 to go. Some of you guys better slow down. I'm as passionate about the Sox as the next person, But **** this team, fire Ozzie, have Kenny make a move??? It's one game!

Can we please have Beviball back as the the gameday thread starter?? I miss him..... and he can spell. :tongue:

oeo
05-18-2007, 04:51 PM
what has ozzie always claimed to be about? defense... did rob hit .340 last year, and i missed it?.... keep excusing.

No, but he hit .290. It was lose, lose last year since we did not have a centerfielder.

I'll defend Ozzie because no one else will do it. A lot of which people argue is bad about Ozzie are things that could go either way, but instead, people (like yourself right now) will just look at it from their opinion and say he's crap. I don't agree with everything Ozzie does, but at the same time, just because I don't agree with it doesn't mean that I'm right.

I'll defend his side because most of the time, he's not completely in the wrong like you're trying to make it look. If that makes me an 'Ozzie apologist', fine, so be it...but before saying he's wrong, think about it first because he's just as correct as you are most of the time.

CHIsoxNation
05-18-2007, 04:52 PM
Sorry if this has been mentioned already, but does anyone else think Buehrle should have been pinched hit for in the top of the 7th? I'm pretty sure it was the 7th (could have been 6th) and we had a runner in scoring position with less then 2 outs and Ozzie let Buehrle bat. Mark ended up striking out and nothing developed that inning. At the time our lead was still 3-1 and I thought for sure Ozzie would go to the bench and bring in someone that could possibly bring in that extra run.

NSSoxFan
05-18-2007, 04:53 PM
No, but he hit .290. It was lose, lose last year since we did not have a centerfielder.

I'll defend Ozzie because no one else will do it. A lot of which people argue is bad about Ozzie are things that could go either way, but instead, people (like yourself right now) will just look at it from their opinion and say he's crap. I don't agree with everything Ozzie does, but at the same time, just because I don't agree with it doesn't mean that I'm right.

I'll defend his side because most of the time, he's not completely in the wrong like you're trying to make it look.

Ozzie has my full support, and no, it's not blind support. Anyone with half a brain and has followed the Sox for a long time understands how much he means to the team. Actually, you know what? We lost to the Cubs, let's bring back Jerry Manuel. Some of you people make me sick.

HITMEN OF 77
05-18-2007, 04:53 PM
I think MacDougal forgot what team he was supposed to play for today. IMO, these errors don't happen if Mac doesn't puke all over the field.


Right! No more MacDougal this series, he's puked enough this past week.

TDog
05-18-2007, 04:53 PM
Our offense is one *****hair away from being nonexistant right now. Whether anyone likes it or not, this team has to play to win one-two run games right now. Bunting is part of that.

It would be one thing if the score was say 6-5 Sox or something, but in a 2-1 game I think you have to, especially when the next two hitters coming up are Luis Terrero and Mark Buehrle.

I think Mark should have been taken out there. I guess we will disagree there, but I'd rather take the chance to enter the 7th with the bullpen and a 2 run lead instead of with Mark and a 1 run lead. We have a bullpen that is at least normally capable of holding the lead up two from the 7th on.

When you have a leadoff double, the most effective way to get him to third with one out is to ground out to the right side. There is a lower percentage in bunting, and bunting has a lower ceiling because more ground balls go through on the right side than bunts go for hits. You shouldn't be bunting there. And if you do bunt successfully, Erstad is going to be coming up with 2 outs in need of a hit.

I've seen enough baseball in my life that I saw this coming at the time. I believed that the best chance for the Sox to win was for Buehrle to go 7, but it was obvious he had to come out. The problem wasn't with Guillen's moves, but with the execution.

SOXandILLINI
05-18-2007, 04:54 PM
Ozzie has my full support, and no, it's not blind support. Anyone with half a brain and has followed the Sox for a long time understands how much he means to the team. Actually, you know what? We lost to the Cubs, let's bring back Jerry Manuel. Some of you people make me sick.

right back at ya.

UserNameBlank
05-18-2007, 04:54 PM
Are you out of your mind? This was one loss. The Sox WERE only 3.5 games out of first, without coming close to any offense. We're starting trade talks after one game? We win tomorrow, everyone can calm down.
The trade talks started the day the Sox fell out of contention last year and will continue through the waiver deadline. After that they will die down for about two weeks and continue on again, regardless of whether or not the Sox make the playoffs.

oeo
05-18-2007, 04:57 PM
Ozzie has my full support, and no, it's not blind support. Anyone with half a brain and has followed the Sox for a long time understands how much he means to the team. Actually, you know what? We lost to the Cubs, let's bring back Jerry Manuel. Some of you people make me sick.

It doesn't matter who's managing, fans are always going to think their smarts trump the manager's. Look around the league and you will see fans across the country not happy with manager's moves, because if they don't work, they were obviously wrong. Ozzie has always said it...the manager gets too much credit when his team is winning, and too much blame when they're losing. There are so many different ways you could go in every situation in a baseball game...if you don't agree with the manager's call, that doesn't make him wrong.

hi im skot
05-18-2007, 04:58 PM
Crappy game, 124 to go. Some of you guys better slow down. I'm as passionate about the Sox as the next person, But **** this team, fire Ozzie, have Kenny make a move??? It's one game!

Can we please have Beviball back as the the gameday thread starter?? I miss him..... and he can spell. :tongue:

At least we consistently get misspelled thread titles...

Lip Man 1
05-18-2007, 04:58 PM
Can someone please brief me about this Mike North situation?

Lip

NSSoxFan
05-18-2007, 04:58 PM
It doesn't matter who's managing, fans are always going to think their smarts trump the manager's. Look around the league and you will see fans across the country not happy with manager's moves, because if they don't work, they were obviously wrong. Ozzie has always said it...the manager gets too much credit when his team is winning, and too much blame when they're losing.

This is very true. IlliniSox for White Sox manager!

HotelWhiteSox
05-18-2007, 04:59 PM
Comcast is lame, one of their moments is a Prior CG and Gload slam that was overturned? I guess not enough Cub moments, but just off the top of my head, Sox getting screwed by Sammy and the ivy, Sox screwed by a rainout, Paul Konerko with the HRs off Wood in that great comeback after he got hit by one of his pitches, a great collision where Sandy held on to a play at the plate that would have decided the game, and I think there was a grand slam in one of those Wrigley games, like by Mark Johnson or something like that (it was in the 1st, I know they batted around).



Barrett postgame - complimentary of both fanbases and organizations as classy and an honor to play in the city where both teams get great support. Complimentary of the Sox bullpen

KyWhiSoxFan
05-18-2007, 04:59 PM
The Sox have lost at least six games this year when leading in the 7th inning. Last year, they lost 16 such games (I believe). The Twinkies lost about 4 such games last year. The bullpen is supposed to be much better this year, but it sure isn't showing up in the wins column.

I'm still waiting for this lock-down bullpen, and hopefully it will happen soon, but there's nothing worse than losing games like this. The Sox should have about 24 wins already (only losing two of those six games when having a lead late), even as bad as they have been offensively.

UserNameBlank
05-18-2007, 04:59 PM
When you have a leadoff double, the most effective way to get him to third with one out is to ground out to the right side. There is a lower percentage in bunting, and bunting has a lower ceiling because more ground balls go through on the right side than bunts go for hits. You shouldn't be bunting there. And if you do bunt successfully, Erstad is going to be coming up with 2 outs in need of a hit.

I've seen enough baseball in my life that I saw this coming at the time. I believed that the best chance for the Sox to win was for Buehrle to go 7, but it was obvious he had to come out. The problem wasn't with Guillen's moves, but with the execution.
Meh... maybe if you have a contact hitter at the plate. If say Erstad was up instead of Terrero I would have preferred him trying to pull the ball to the right side, but Terrero is and always has been a high strikeout guy.

If the bunt is successful Mark would have had to have been taken out for a pinch hitter. If that player failed to get a hit or drive in the run via sac fly, then Erstad would have come up with 2 out.

SOXandILLINI
05-18-2007, 05:00 PM
This is very true. IlliniSox for White Sox manager!

it's soxandillini, and they could do much worse.

vegyrex
05-18-2007, 05:01 PM
Is MacDougal the new Marte? :?:

TDog
05-18-2007, 05:01 PM
Can someone please brief me about this Mike North situation?

Lip

There"s a thread on it, Lip. The day began with people screaming that Guillen should be fired because he isn't more like Jerry Manuel, and it is ending with people screaming that he should be fired because MacDougal lost the lead and game to the Cubs.

NSSoxFan
05-18-2007, 05:02 PM
it's soxandillini, and they could do much worse.

My apologies and false.

comet2k
05-18-2007, 05:02 PM
I'm SICK of these piss-poor efforts. Poor managing one minute, poor hitting the next minute, mediocre pitching the minute after that.<<<<<These three are the theme this season so far.

It's early but, this team isn't going anywhere this season.

If you have any tickets you'll be giving away because they're so awful, please PM me. Thanks.

UserNameBlank
05-18-2007, 05:03 PM
Can someone please brief me about this Mike North situation?

Lip
I have no idea and would like to know as well, but my guess is this simple mathematical eqaution: fiery latin manager who speaks without thinking + douchebag radio host = trouble.

SOXandILLINI
05-18-2007, 05:03 PM
There"s a thread on it, Lip. The day began with people screaming that Guillen should be fired because he isn't more like Jerry Manuel, and it is ending with people screaming that he should be fired because MacDougal lost the lead and game to the Cubs.

perhaps a slight oversimplification:rolleyes:

HotelWhiteSox
05-18-2007, 05:03 PM
Can someone please brief me about this Mike North situation?

Lip

North had AJ on this morning, you could say North stirred the pot, AJ was disappointed about not being in the lineup today. A little later, Ozzie called in, pissed from the start (answering North's welcome to the show with a 'shut the **** up'), with his multiple swears making it on the air. Then after Ozzie backed off with strong words, North took a 'tough guy' stance, yelling at Ozzie for being disrespectful and all that, Ozzie then hung up (according to Mike)

The audio is on the Score's website.

SOXandILLINI
05-18-2007, 05:04 PM
My apologies and false.

you couldn't carry my jockstrap or my brain.

Lip Man 1
05-18-2007, 05:04 PM
I just read the story on it at the Tribune.

My initial impression is that Mike "The Moron" North deserves evertything that he gets.

I'll never forget the time he was on Chicago Tribune Live and made himself look even more dumber then he is by stating that "all the Sox had to do was win one game the last week of 1967 to win the pennant..."

:rolleyes:

OK Mike....

Lip

JB98
05-18-2007, 05:05 PM
twice, you are an incredible intellect.

Takes one to know one, I guess. Everyone knows the only time you post is when Ozzie has done something that you deem "an embarrassment to the organization" or whatever.

In my eyes, that makes you a :dtroll:

NSSoxFan
05-18-2007, 05:05 PM
you couldn't carry my jockstrap or my brain.

I don't think I want to find out.

:)

Frater Perdurabo
05-18-2007, 05:06 PM
Barrett...Complimentary of the Sox bullpen

I would be too if my team just got a win gift-wrapped by the Sox pen.

SOXandILLINI
05-18-2007, 05:06 PM
I don't think I want to find out.

:)
i'm sure you wouldn't.

SOXandILLINI
05-18-2007, 05:07 PM
Takes one to know one, I guess. Everyone knows the only time you post is when Ozzie has done something that you deem "an embarrassment to the organization" or whatever.

In my eyes, that makes you a :dtroll:
takes one to know one? you're on a roll, and in 4th grade apparently.

RockJock07
05-18-2007, 05:08 PM
The trade talks started the day the Sox fell out of contention last year and will continue through the waiver deadline. After that they will die down for about two weeks and continue on again, regardless of whether or not the Sox make the playoffs.

Very true, and it's doesn't matter how the Sox are doing right now 3.5 game seems 13.5 with the way the offense is going right now. You mean to tell me that you wouldn't want Ichiro on this team? If it helps the team, who cares when the trade talks happen, Kenny needs to do something drastic.

I wouldn't mind putting Fields in the lineup now if it means Ichiro leading off.

veeter
05-18-2007, 05:11 PM
Very true, and it's doesn't matter how the Sox are doing right now 3.5 game seems 13.5 with the way the offense is going right now. You mean to tell me that you wouldn't want Ichiro on this team? If it helps the team, who cares when the trade talks happen, Kenny needs to do something drastic.

I wouldn't mind putting Fields in the lineup now if it means Ichiro leading off.Of course I'd like Ichiro. I'd like Pujols, A-Rod and Santana too. And Kenny never does anything out of desperation. At 4 games out, he's not even close too a drastic point.

hi im skot
05-18-2007, 05:11 PM
takes one to know one? you're on a roll, and in 4th grade apparently.

This is getting awesome!!!!!

:rolleyes:

JB98
05-18-2007, 05:11 PM
takes one to know one? you're on a roll, and in 4th grade apparently.

:dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll:

JB98
05-18-2007, 05:12 PM
This is getting awesome!!!!!

:rolleyes:

Unfortunately, personal insults are not allowed on here. :D:

SOXandILLINI
05-18-2007, 05:14 PM
:dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll:

amazing... i defer to the scarecrow.

sox1970
05-18-2007, 05:15 PM
The next two days, I want to see this:

1. Erstad
2. Iguchi
3. Dye
4. Konerko
5. Pierzynski
6. Crede (assuming he's back)
7. Uribe
8. Sweeney

**** Cintron. **** Mackowiak. **** Ozuna.

I want starters to start!!

DickAllen72
05-18-2007, 05:15 PM
Not sure about Ozzie here

If you don't pinch hit for Buehrle there, why not leave him in instead of putting his game in the hands of someone else? Then MacDougal was in for way too long, can't believe he started the next inning, he obviously didn't have it.

Wow. Exactly what I was going to type. :wink:

The team with the better manager won today. Let's hope the Sox win the series.

CLR01
05-18-2007, 05:15 PM
:dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll: :dtroll:

For gods sake if that's all your going to post save the image and go find another board.

Enough. :rolleyes:

HotelWhiteSox
05-18-2007, 05:15 PM
Take it to the PMs ladies, then throw out all the personal insults you want


I'm not a grammar whore, but is it possible to change the title? I am a sick and twisted man and it's driving me nuts EDIT: Thank you :smile:

sox1970
05-18-2007, 05:16 PM
Take it to the PMs ladies, then throw out all the personal insults you want


I'm not a grammar whore, but is it possible to change the title? I am a sick and twisted man and it's driving me nuts

Agreed.

102605
05-18-2007, 05:17 PM
I just lost a few brain cells reading a couple posts in this thread. Everyone shut down now.

The loss was OG fault? Because he didn't put the pinch hitters in a certain order everyone is guessing on?

MacDougal was terrible. Hall didn't have much chance at that slider way away from where it was supposed to be. Macdougal was terrible. Did I mention Macdougal was awful?

UserNameBlank
05-18-2007, 05:25 PM
I just lost a few brain cells reading a couple posts in this thread. Everyone shut down now.

The loss was OG fault? Because he didn't put the pinch hitters in a certain order everyone is guessing on?

MacDougal was terrible. Hall didn't have much chance at that slider way away from where it was supposed to be. Macdougal was terrible. Did I mention Macdougal was awful?
The loss wasn't Ozzie's fault, but as usual, he's making bad decisions.

MacDougal lost this game. His first pitch meatball to a free swinger critically wounded us. The wild pitch finished the job.

PaulDrake
05-18-2007, 05:29 PM
Are you ****ing kidding me? :rolling:

Another case of, "I'm smarter than Ozzie." If your so smart, don't say something stupid like this. I second Atlanta's statement. Ozzie cost them a chance to win the game. Now you can go back to laughing on the floor.

102605
05-18-2007, 05:33 PM
I second Atlanta's statement. Ozzie cost them a chance to win the game. Now you can go back to laughing on the floor.

Did I forget to mention Macdougal was awful?

PaulDrake
05-18-2007, 05:34 PM
You have to understand SOXandILLINI hates Guillen. He only posts here to make self-righteous rants against our manager. I don't hate him, but he definitely seems to play favorities. He wouldn't be the first manager or boss to do that.

TDog
05-18-2007, 05:36 PM
Meh... maybe if you have a contact hitter at the plate. If say Erstad was up instead of Terrero I would have preferred him trying to pull the ball to the right side, but Terrero is and always has been a high strikeout guy.

If the bunt is successful Mark would have had to have been taken out for a pinch hitter. If that player failed to get a hit or drive in the run via sac fly, then Erstad would have come up with 2 out.

You are claiming that not bunting is a managerial error. You are presenting it as evidence that Guillen is not competent to manager the Sox, even though his moves resulted in what your moves would have produced. The result alone makes your argument weak.

I think Guillen was right in trying to get one more inning out of Buehrle. I would have made the same move. My guess is that most fans would in that situation. You have people in this thread who to say Guillen should be fired because he didn't let Buehrle face Pagan in the 7th. I'm not being an apologist. I said in chat that it was good to see Guillen leave Buehrle in to hit in the 7th because I wanted to see him pitch the 7th. I also said in chat when Theriot came up that this had to be his last hitter. I'm not second guessing the way most people are who snipe at moves when they don't work out. In your case, you're sniping at a move that did work out.

The only way I could see hitting for Buehrle in the 7th would be a situation where the Sox are playing for more than one run. If he had come up with the bases loaded 1 or 2 outs, I would have hit for him. With Tererro, I would be looking for a hit or a walk to give Buehrle a chance to sacrifice.

JB98
05-18-2007, 05:38 PM
I don't hate him, but he definitely seems to play favorities. He wouldn't be the first manager or boss to do that.

No, but to say he's playing favorites is an accusation without proof. I sure as hell don't like everything Guillen does. If I'm managing, there's no way MacDougal is allowed to start the eighth inning today.

I just think some people get a little unreasonable about the criticism after a bad loss like today's.

Cellview22
05-18-2007, 05:38 PM
Wow! We're already at 13 pages. Tomorrow's first pitch can't come soon enough; hopefully we somehow manage (no pun intended) to get a win, and we only see 3 pages on here.

chisoxfanatic
05-18-2007, 05:40 PM
I don't get why Ozzie continues to use MacDougal when he's been downright horrible lately. That was where Aardsma should've come in, and I'm sure he would've fared much better than Mac. It's looking like he's back in KC again!

I feel bad for Buehrle. He truly didn't deserve those turn of events in the seventh inning.

Well, at least we still know we have the ultimate trump card over those losers anyways...

Railsplitter
05-18-2007, 05:40 PM
:angry: MacDougal to Charlotte, ASAP. Every time I see him pitch, he's giving up hits with guys on base.

NSSoxFan
05-18-2007, 05:43 PM
The loss wasn't Ozzie's fault, but as usual, he's making bad decisions.


Doesn't make any sense. If MacDougal came in and got out Pagan, how would people charactarize the decision? Trust me, Ozzie would rather have you blame him than anybody on his roster. That being said, this was on Buerhle's inability to get Blanco or Theriot out and MacDougal. Nothing more, nothing less.

JB98
05-18-2007, 05:44 PM
Doesn't make any sense. If MacDougal came in and got out Pagan, how would people charactarize the decision? Trust me, Ozzie would rather have you blame him than anybody on his roster. That being said, this was on Buerhle's inability to get Blanco or Theriot out and MacDougal. Nothing more, nothing less.

After Theriot got the hit, I actually stated to no one in particular, "Pull him, Ozzie!" I had not problem with that move. It didn't work, and that happens.

Pagan didn't even hit the ball hard.

PaulDrake
05-18-2007, 05:44 PM
The loss wasn't Ozzie's fault, but as usual, he's making bad decisions.

MacDougal lost this game. His first pitch meatball to a free swinger critically wounded us. The wild pitch finished the job. That's fair enough.

102605
05-18-2007, 05:53 PM
The loss wasn't Ozzie's fault, but as usual, he's making bad decisions.

Excuse me but NOBODY WAS COMPLAINING in 2005 when OG was making the same kind of decisions.

With the bullpen it was Cotts or Politte to face the designated leftie or rightie in the late innings and the difference is that the players performed their job.

I can't believe the scrutinizing OG is facing in this thread and board for that matter. Absolutely a pathetic showing of White Sox fans and I am embarrassed to read these posts.

2 years ago people! He has not changed a stinking thing and you all loved him then. Half of you call Cubs fans bandwagoners? Give me a break!

It is up to players like Macdougal, Mackowiak, Ozuna, ETC (Konerko, Crede, Iguchi, the whole collective .200 club) to perform their jobs that pay them MILLIONS of $.

UserNameBlank
05-18-2007, 05:55 PM
You are claiming that not bunting is a managerial error. You are presenting it as evidence that Guillen is not competent to manager the Sox, even though his moves resulted in what your moves would have produced. The result alone makes your argument weak.

I think Guillen was right in trying to get one more inning out of Buehrle. I would have made the same move. My guess is that most fans would in that situation. You have people in this thread who to say Guillen should be fired because he didn't let Buehrle face Pagan in the 7th. I'm not being an apologist. I said in chat that it was good to see Guillen leave Buehrle in to hit in the 7th because I wanted to see him pitch the 7th. I also said in chat when Theriot came up that this had to be his last hitter. I'm not second guessing the way most people are who snipe at moves when they don't work out. In your case, you're sniping at a move that did work out.

The only way I could see hitting for Buehrle in the 7th would be a situation where the Sox are playing for more than one run. If he had come up with the bases loaded 1 or 2 outs, I would have hit for him. With Tererro, I would be looking for a hit or a walk to give Buehrle a chance to sacrifice.

Ozzie was bailed out, so the move didn't hurt him at all. Anything can happen really. He could have bunted, brought in a pinch hitter who walked, and the end result could have been a DP, bringing the Sox into the 7th with a reliever on the bump and the Sox only up 1. Hell, Terrero and Mark could have went yard back to back and won the game for the Sox.

Terrero doesn't hit or walk. In Triple A he does, but his major league career has pretty much said he's not going to be very effective.

I get what you are saying, and it makes sense I guess, but let me ask you this. Do you get the feeling when you are watching the Sox lately that if they are down late - even by only a run or two - that they are going to lose? I do because they aren't hitting. Instead of hoping for 1.) a productive out and a basehit/sac fly or 2.) an extra base hit from Terrero-Buehrle-Erstad, I'd rather take the chance on the bullpen giving up 1 run or less over 3.0 IP and play for that one extra insurance run. I think this team is at a point right now where we aren't getting on base enough to try to play for more than one run, especially in a NL park without Thome in the lineup.

hawkjt
05-18-2007, 05:56 PM
look, I wanted burls to come back out in the 7th.. he was on a roll on the mound.. I thought he had a good pitch called a ball in the blanco at bat and then he kind of gave in to his bad history vs blanco and walked him..

ozzie did exactly what he should do.. let burl have a chance and then went to the same guy that set down jeter,a-rod and posada in order yesterday...

maybe mcdougal should not go two days in a row? just wondering..

this loss in on mcdougal.. sox hitters did enough to win with burls on the mound but our bullpen let us down..

I like the look of toby at the plate .. he seems to have not been here long enough to be infected with the disease that many are suffering from.. but JD is looking better also.. PK also got a hit.. baby steps.. iguchi looks a little better..

this one really stung but there is tommorrow to recoup.. the cubs were so beatable today,tho.. hope they do not wake up now..

UserNameBlank
05-18-2007, 05:58 PM
Doesn't make any sense. If MacDougal came in and got out Pagan, how would people charactarize the decision? Trust me, Ozzie would rather have you blame him than anybody on his roster. That being said, this was on Buerhle's inability to get Blanco or Theriot out and MacDougal. Nothing more, nothing less.
I never said Ozzie made a bad move bringing MacDougal in to relieve Buehrle. I said it was a bad move to have him start the 8th after allowing a two run triple, throwing a wild pitch to score the go-ahead run, and giving up a single all in 0.1 IP.

NSSoxFan
05-18-2007, 06:00 PM
I never said Ozzie made a bad move bringing MacDougal in to relieve Buehrle. I said it was a bad move to have him start the 8th after allowing a two run triple, throwing a wild pitch to score the go-ahead run, and giving up a single all in 0.1 IP.

You're right, sorry about that, I read your post to quickly.

UserNameBlank
05-18-2007, 06:01 PM
Excuse me but NOBODY WAS COMPLAINING in 2005 when OG was making the same kind of decisions.

With the bullpen it was Cotts or Politte to face the designated leftie or rightie in the late innings and the difference is that the players performed their job.

I can't believe the scrutinizing OG is facing in this thread and board for that matter. Absolutely a pathetic showing of White Sox fans and I am embarrassed to read these posts.

2 years ago people! He has not changed a stinking thing and you all loved him then. Half of you call Cubs fans bandwagoners? Give me a break!

It is up to players like Macdougal, Mackowiak, Ozuna, ETC (Konerko, Crede, Iguchi, the whole collective .200 club) to perform their jobs that pay them MILLIONS of $.
Will all you people stop giving Ozzie a free pass because of 2005? That was 2 years ago. Besides, Ozzie had a pen in '05 that, for the exception of Marte, could get anyone out an any time. He could use that bullpen however he wanted to because it was amazingly effective. IMO, there is not a manager in the AL who would have misused that pen.

JB98
05-18-2007, 06:02 PM
I never said Ozzie made a bad move bringing MacDougal in to relieve Buehrle. I said it was a bad move to have him start the 8th after allowing a two run triple, throwing a wild pitch to score the go-ahead run, and giving up a single all in 0.1 IP.

On this, I will agree. This was the bad move Ozzie made today. There was every indication in that seventh inning that MacDougal just didn't have it.

WSox597
05-18-2007, 06:04 PM
Hopefully, this game will be the bright spot of the Cubs season, as they make their way to the bottom of the NL Comedy Central.

If it takes 4 errors for them to beat the Sox, so be it. They won't always make those 4 errors.

The offense needs to wake up, and the Sox will be fine. It should be pretty quick though.

102605
05-18-2007, 06:04 PM
Will all you people stop giving Ozzie a free pass because of 2005? That was 2 years ago. Besides, Ozzie had a pen in '05 that, for the exception of Marte, could get anyone out an any time. He could use that bullpen however he wanted to because it was amazingly effective. IMO, there is not a manager in the AL who would have misused that pen.


Please! So now he misused the pen that entire season and it was luck they won it?

I'm not giving him a free pass but we all loved him then for they way he managed and nothing has changed. Well except the crying because the talent that he has to use this year and last has not been good.

tony1972
05-18-2007, 06:05 PM
I have a bad feeling about this weekend in general..

Vazquez tomorrow against Marquis (5-1)

and we don't play well on Sundays..:(:

TDog
05-18-2007, 06:06 PM
... Do you get the feeling when you are watching the Sox lately that if they are down late - even by only a run or two - that they are going to lose? ...

I don't. Strangely enough, excluding the loss in Minnesot in extra innings, the White Sox are now 4-5 in games where they have trailed on the road by at least 3 runs. One of those losses was in extra innings as well, so you could say the Sox are 4-4 in 9-inning road games where they have trailed by at least 3 runs. They have come back late quite a bit this year.

Look at the Sox run differential. Look at the Cubs run differential. And yet the Sox have a better record. Blame that on the manager.

JB98
05-18-2007, 06:08 PM
I don't. Strangely enough, excluding the loss in Minnesot in extra innings, the White Sox are now 4-5 in games where they have trailed on the road by at least 3 runs. One of those losses was in extra innings as well, so you could say the Sox are 4-4 in 9-inning road games where they have trailed by at least 3 runs. They have come back late quite a bit this year.

Look at the Sox run differential. Look at the Cubs run differential. And yet the Sox have a better record. Blame that on the manager.

We have been outscored by six runs over the course of the last 12 games, yet remarkably our record is 8-4. That's good, and it's bad. It's good because it shows we can win games without playing our best ball. It's bad because we're playing with fire if we continue this way for too much longer.

sox1970
05-18-2007, 06:10 PM
:angry: MacDougal to Charlotte, ASAP. Every time I see him pitch, he's giving up hits with guys on base.

He just signed a 3 year contract. I'd just prefer the Sox score about 6-7 runs, and make those guys' jobs a lot easier.

UserNameBlank
05-18-2007, 06:10 PM
Please! So now he misused the pen that entire season and it was luck they won it?

I'm not giving him a free pass but we all loved him then for they way he managed and nothing has changed. Well except the crying because the talent that he has to use this year and last has not been good.
Reading is a skill.

When did I say he misused that pen? I said he couldn't misuse the pen because everyone in it besides Marte was effective.

He has the talent this year.

What I will never understand about Ozzie is that he will do things like he dod today where he has a guy come in, give up runs, look horrible, and then he'll bring the same guy out to start the next inning. Then, in the next damn game, he'll bring in a reliever who will get a strikeout on 3 or 4 pitches and then take him out for a lefty/righty matchup with a guy who is struggling.

102605
05-18-2007, 06:14 PM
Reading is a skill.

Arrogance isn't. I obviously know how to read.

So yes, everyone except Marte was effective so OG had no chance of misusing them. Great Point! OG doesn't deserve a lick of credit on his managing style.

Paulwny
05-18-2007, 06:18 PM
[quote=UserNameBlank;1577600]
He has the talent this year.
/quote]

And we know this for sure, how ??

UserNameBlank
05-18-2007, 06:23 PM
[quote=UserNameBlank;1577600]
He has the talent this year.
/quote]

And we know this for sure, how ??
Because he's got a pen full of fireballers and his weakest link on the surface is a young lefty with a funky delivery who throws strikes in the low to mid ninties.

The talent is there. Will the results be? I think so, because the SP is going deep enough into games that the pen isn't going to have to be overworked. Ozzie can play his matchups all he wants as long as he goes with the hot hands. Plus there are 7 guys in the pen and every single one of them is capable of pitching 2 innings.

JB98
05-18-2007, 06:24 PM
[quote=UserNameBlank;1577600]
He has the talent this year.
/quote]

And we know this for sure, how ??

We've already had five games this season where a lead in the seventh inning or later evaporated into a White Sox loss.

Five out of 38 games. It's happening almost once a week.

This club is better at coming from behind than it is at protecting leads.

Frater Perdurabo
05-18-2007, 06:28 PM
What I will never understand about Ozzie is that he will do things like he dod today where he has a guy come in, give up runs, look horrible, and then he'll bring the same guy out to start the next inning. Then, in the next damn game, he'll bring in a reliever who will get a strikeout on 3 or 4 pitches and then take him out for a lefty/righty matchup with a guy who is struggling.

I was going to post the same thing. Ozzie will leave a guy in the game even when he cannot find the strike zone or is getting hammered (Mike Jackson, Jon Adkins and Neal Cotts in 2004; Damaso Marte in 2005, Cotts and Politte in 2006; MacDougal in 2007).

But in another game, Ozzie will yank a guy who gets a K or pop/ground out, just to have the lefty/lefty or righty/righty matchup.

I don't mind it when Ozzie is inconsistent. I also don't mind when Ozzie is predictable. What I don't like is that he consistently makes the same bad decisions over and over again.

Paulwny
05-18-2007, 06:28 PM
[quote=UserNameBlank;
Plus there are 7 guys in the pen and every single one of them is capable of pitching 2 innings.[/quote]

Except, I guess, according to you Mac wasn't ready for 2 innings. You either trust them or you don't , you don't wait till runs are scored and then complain that a pitcher wasn't ready for an additional inning.
If you say they have the talent to go 2 innings then don't complain about Oz allowing someone to pitch another inning.

UserNameBlank
05-18-2007, 06:29 PM
Arrogance isn't. I obviously know how to read.

So yes, everyone except Marte was effective so OG had no chance of misusing them. Great Point! OG doesn't deserve a lick of credit on his managing style.
True, arrogance is not a skill. It is something that develops with post count, and right now you are unfortunately more arrogant than I am.

And yes again. Ozzie went to Jenks, Hermanson, Politte and Cotts in the late innings last year. All of them were capable of closing out games. Vizcaino, even though he undeservedly got ripped on here a bit, was also solid. With a two run lead or more I would have been comfortable with Ozzie turning to him late in the game as well.

Oh, I forgot about Shingo. Shingo was bad, and there is no way Ozzie or anyone else could have managed him correctly because he sucked in '05. Basically, you put any other manager on this team and with the way these guys pitched, our pen in '05 is still lights out.

UserNameBlank
05-18-2007, 06:29 PM
edit: double post.

alohafri
05-18-2007, 06:30 PM
**** this game. Maybe ozzie should be yelling at his players and not Mike North.

Ozzie should be yelling at himself and his Jerry Manuel style of managing. I will never understand why these two insist on resting three starters in the same game, be it against the Cubs or the Devil Rays!:angry:

UserNameBlank
05-18-2007, 06:34 PM
Except, I guess, according to you Mac wasn't ready for 2 innings. You either trust them or you don't , you don't wait till runs are scored and then complain that a pitcher wasn't ready for an additional inning.
If you say they have the talent to go 2 innings then don't complain about Oz allowing someone to pitch another inning.
I think you missed my point. They all have the ability to go two innings, meaning that if they are effective, they can eat some innings to give the other guys who worked the night before some rest. I never said they were going to be lights out every single night.

TDog
05-18-2007, 06:40 PM
[quote=Paulwny;1577607]

We've already had five games this season where a lead in the seventh inning or later evaporated into a White Sox loss.

Five out of 38 games. It's happening almost once a week.

This club is better at coming from behind than it is at protecting leads.

Strictly speaking, one of those games where they gave up the lead was one in which they came from 3 down to go up by 2. It's closer to a wash.

The talent I see in the Sox bullpen is too good to lose so many games. It's as difficult for me to figure as how the Sox can have come back in so many games with so little hitting.

MetroPD
05-18-2007, 06:40 PM
Unbelievable. Ritual suicide is in order.

Paulwny
05-18-2007, 06:41 PM
I think you missed my point. They all have the ability to go two innings, meaning that if they are effective, they can eat some innings to give the other guys who worked the night before some rest. I never said they were going to be lights out every single night.

Any relief pitcher who is effective can pitch multiple innings. I don't believe the pen is that talented, I think it's still a work in progress with pitchers having good and bad outings.

markopat
05-18-2007, 06:47 PM
What a swift kick in the newts that was........We can trade MacDougal tonight.

uggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...

thomas35forever
05-18-2007, 06:49 PM
I expect Macdougal to be DFA'd in about a month.

Foulke You
05-18-2007, 06:50 PM
Just got back from the urinal...and now I feel like I need a shower. Man is that place filthy and the Cub fans were obnoxious as usual. In my section alone, I had two Cubs fans in front of me admit to that they don't watch baseball (shocking), another two who spent 4 of the 9 innings away from their seats in the beer patio (that doesn't have a view of the game), and a guy who had a vineyard polo shirt on who couldn't find his seat with a roadmap and left in the 6th inning. All that and I was treated to a big turd of a finish to the game. Cruise control for 6.5 innings than the wheels fell off the wagon. :mad:

One point I'd like to touch on was that while MacDougal was in mid-choke and couldn't find the strike zone in the 7th inning, Ozzie had NOBODY getting loose in the pen. Not a single soul. It wasn't until a batter after the wild pitch where the Cubs took the lead did he get Boone Logan stirring there. There was no excuse for that and certainly no excuse for letting Mac start the 8th inning as poor as he threw. Ozzie needs to get his head in the game as well and recognize when his setup man doesn't have it. For a manager who listens to his gut, today, I don't think he had the right intuition. Just a bad game for the team overall today. That being said, let's get em tomorrow. Hopefully, we'll have AJ and Crede back in the lineup too.

UserNameBlank
05-18-2007, 06:53 PM
Any relief pitcher who is effective can pitch multiple innings. I don't believe the pen is that talented, I think it's still a work in progress with pitchers having good and bad outings.
Not really. Some guys just don't have the stamina for that and/or they aren't healthy enough to do so. There are also others who are the lefty/righty specialist types who don't have overwhleming stuff and can't get by with mistakes. The Sox have 6 guys in that pen with stuff and Logan who isn't too shabby himself. We don't have any Hermanson's (back issues) or Koch's (severe velocity issues) or Shingo/Borowskis (junkball issues) or Todd Jones' (age issues) in our pen. Every one of our guys is there because he deserves to be there. We have 7 pitchers in our pen who the Sox all wanted to take north out of ST.

This thing is a work in progress because Thornton and MacDougal at 30 are our grizzled veterans. After that everyone in it is 26 or younger without a whole lot of major league experience. I think Ozzie is still trying to determine roles with his pen, but there is not one single pitcher in our pen who would shock anyone by putting together a great year.

ws05champs
05-18-2007, 06:57 PM
My wife taped the game and is watching it now. She keeps away from all the news shows and watches the game as if it is going on now. I, on the other hand had the game on while I was working. So when she got home, I am filled with rage and have to keep it bottled up or else she will know what happened. It's almost 3 hours later and I'm still fuming. I know one thing, I am going to find some excuse to leave the house before she starts watching the 7th inning. I just feel sorry for our 2 German Shepherds. They will probably be hiding under the bed when she starts yelling at the TV.:angry:

sox1970
05-18-2007, 06:58 PM
My wife taped the game and is watching it now. She keeps away from all the news shows and watches the game as if it is going on now. I, on the other hand had the game on while I was working. So when she got home, I am filled with rage and have to keep it bottled up or else she will know what happened. It's almost 3 hours later and I'm still fuming. I know one thing, I am going to find some excuse to leave the house before she starts watching the 7th inning. I just feel sorry for our 2 German Shepherds. They will probably be hiding under the bed when she starts yelling at the TV.:angry:

Just tell her it's a regular season game. They lost. And then go for a walk together.

CLR01
05-18-2007, 07:00 PM
My wife taped the game and is watching it now. She keeps away from all the news shows and watches the game as if it is going on now. I, on the other hand had the game on while I was working. So when she got home, I am filled with rage and have to keep it bottled up or else she will know what happened. It's almost 3 hours later and I'm still fuming. I know one thing, I am going to find some excuse to leave the house before she starts watching the 7th inning. I just feel sorry for our 2 German Shepherds. They will probably be hiding under the bed when she starts yelling at the TV.:angry:

Good call on leaving the house.

JB98
05-18-2007, 07:15 PM
I expect Macdougal to be DFA'd in about a month.

I'd be willing to bet you a significant amount of money that won't happen.

TomBradley72
05-18-2007, 07:16 PM
My wife taped the game and is watching it now. She keeps away from all the news shows and watches the game as if it is going on now. I, on the other hand had the game on while I was working. So when she got home, I am filled with rage and have to keep it bottled up or else she will know what happened. It's almost 3 hours later and I'm still fuming. I know one thing, I am going to find some excuse to leave the house before she starts watching the 7th inning. I just feel sorry for our 2 German Shepherds. They will probably be hiding under the bed when she starts yelling at the TV.:angry:

Well at least you married well. :cool:

sox1970
05-18-2007, 07:19 PM
Hate MacDougal and the defense today, but the fact is the Sox have averaged 3.8 runs a game this season. They're lucky to be over .500, and it also gives a lot of optimism about this team if they can get it going when Thome gets back. Ozzie just needs to play the regular lineup with Iguchi back in the two hole, and let them play it out.

letsgosox1592
05-18-2007, 07:28 PM
ozzie has done a great job with the bench for 2 years straight but he has to realize that the bench is not playing well and that the bench are suppose to play maybe once or twice a week and he has them playing 3-4 times a week barring on who it is. I am starting to get pissed off he keeps on playing mackowiak, and pitching macdougal....they both are struggling and i think this team needs to make a move to get a spark underneath them. when thome comes back they need to either send down terero or mackowiak cause the future is with ryan sweeney.

im sort of glad the sox didnt sign buehrle, dye, or iguchi because they didnt know what they were going to do. buehrle deserves a new deal while dye is starting to earn one here or big money somewhere else, while iguchi isnt worth a dime right now and he needs to start making a difference and getting back to the way he played in 2005.

macdougal has not lived up to anything we thought he was going to be. it seems like macdougal cant go through the pressure cause with k.c. he had no pressure on him and he saved like 28 games a year....now he comes in to get one out and cant get it and has them tie the game and then lose the game.:angry: u cant blame it all on him though...4 errors is going to kill ya but u got to be able to get ur job done. i am just furious in what i say in the last 3 innings today because the sox seemed effortless once they were down.

ondafarm
05-18-2007, 07:29 PM
I know we played with half a team today, but losing a 2 run lead that late in the game is pretty bad. I don't always agree with OZ but his hands were tied today with Crede getting hurt; we're stuck with either Mack (ugh) or Pablo (ugh) at 3rd. Letfy on the mound, Pablo at 3rd, even though IIRC Lily does BETTER against righties......... I just hope North-gate doesn't blossom like Stone-gate did a few years ago. Hopefully Cards and Reds can shock us and win a game this weekend.

Or Cintron at 3rd, he's competent there.

JB98
05-18-2007, 07:33 PM
Or Cintron at 3rd, he's competent there.

I wonder whether Alex's offseason arm surgery prevents him from playing third. I thought Cintron played third more than Ozuna last year. This season, the reverse seems to be true. Pure speculation on my part.

ondafarm
05-18-2007, 07:35 PM
One point I'd like to touch on was that while MacDougal was in mid-choke and couldn't find the strike zone in the 7th inning, Ozzie had NOBODY getting loose in the pen. Not a single soul. It wasn't until a batter after the wild pitch where the Cubs took the lead did he get Boone Logan stirring there. There was no excuse for that and certainly no excuse for letting Mac start the 8th inning as poor as he threw. Ozzie needs to get his head in the game as well and recognize when his setup man doesn't have it. For a manager who listens to his gut, today, I don't think he had the right intuition. Just a bad game for the team overall today. That being said, let's get em tomorrow. Hopefully, we'll have AJ and Crede back in the lineup too.

See, I totally disagree with Ozzie on this. He'll say, it's better for a guys confidence not to have a guy up behind him. I just think that's dumb. The moment a relief pitcher comes into the game, the next guy should be getting warm. Confidence comes from success and Ozzie fiddled a game away today.

Law11
05-18-2007, 07:39 PM
Had time to cool off. Went to Woodfield and guess i was asking for it with my Sox cap on but every Cub fan in the NW burbs must have been at the damn mall tonight gear a blazin'.. One guy chirped at me. Nice game McDougal.

I told him politely.. Congrats on winning your World Series today..
he just laughed it off and said "i felt like you do after last nights Met game"

I kept it civil, when i thought I might go off.

With the wind projected to be blowing out tomorrow I just hope javy keeps the ball down tomorrow and keeps them off balance much the way MB did for 6+ today.

vegyrex
05-18-2007, 07:48 PM
MacDougal was terrible. Hall didn't have much chance at that slider way away from where it was supposed to be. Macdougal was terrible. Did I mention Macdougal was awful?

I don't think it can be said enough.

BanditJimmy
05-18-2007, 07:52 PM
Just got back from the game:

1. McDougal needs to be set aside for mop-up duties right now until he can show he can get it together again. Set up dutie should be handed to Aardsma for the 7th and Thornton for the 8th regardless of the match ups.

2. Toby Hall cannot throw the ball folks, he struggles to get it back to the mound. Every throw to 2nd during warm ups was a 1 hopper or off-line. I think he will be limited to DH and PH ..... Molina will find his way back here soon.

3. OFFENSE, OFFENSE, OFFENSE ...... I guess I will tip my hat to Lily the same way I did for Wang two days ago. I tip my hat so often now that I probably shouldn't wear one anymore.

4. Our roster is not injury proof ..... if we don't get healthy soon and stay healthy, we will end up in 4th place. The bench is bad to be starters at this level.

5. Buehrle was 1 out away from getting out of the inning with 110 pitches. Odds are he would have finished the inning with 115 pitches and no runs.... I hate it when a starter is taken out while leaving the tying runs on base. Not fair to not allow your horse to lose the game or win it for you at that given moment.

ondafarm
05-18-2007, 07:57 PM
Ozzie didn't lose the game, unless he was pitching in the 7th.

So if he'd trotted out Garland and Garland blew it you'd still not blame Ozzie.

A manager is responsible for the decisions he makes: good or bad.

chisoxfanatic
05-18-2007, 08:01 PM
Had time to cool off. Went to Woodfield and guess i was asking for it with my Sox cap on but every Cub fan in the NW burbs must have been at the damn mall tonight gear a blazin'.. One guy chirped at me. Nice game McDougal.

I told him politely.. Congrats on winning your World Series today..
he just laughed it off and said "i felt like you do after last nights Met game"
The great thing is that we have the ULTIMATE trump card that we can play until they finally win the World Series. According to my personal mathematical model, I project that to be sometime around the year 2121. :cool:

UserNameBlank
05-18-2007, 08:12 PM
I tip my hat so often now that I probably shouldn't wear one anymore.
Quote of the year so far.

NSSoxFan
05-18-2007, 08:22 PM
So if he'd trotted out Garland and Garland blew it you'd still not blame Ozzie.


That doesn't make any sense. Garland isn't a relief pitcher, so I don't see what your point is. Ozzie is responsible for the decisions he makes, not the way his players perform.

Paulwny
05-18-2007, 08:43 PM
but there is not one single pitcher in our pen who would shock anyone by putting together a great year.

You're assuming a lot ., who are these people who wouldn't be shocked? Right now the is pen is iffy and will have it's ups and downs who knows if this will change.
Just because you think it's a talented pen doesn't it it so.

viagracat
05-18-2007, 08:50 PM
Oldest rule in sports: When you play like dog ****, you usually lose.

The Sox played like dog **** and lost.

Go get 'em tomorrow.

IndianWhiteSox
05-18-2007, 09:16 PM
Forget blame (because it is his fault). HE NEEDS TO BE FIRED. Even if he wasn't a terrible hitting coach, the hitting coach needs to be fired after this kind of start.


I agreed three weeks ago:


http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=87065

RadioheadRocks
05-18-2007, 09:42 PM
Buehrle-mon certainly deserved better, and that's all I'm gonna say about this one.

Now let's get the next two!!!

Viva Medias B's
05-18-2007, 10:01 PM
Just got home from work. I am not happy with our manager today; not saying he should be fired or anything like that, but his stock with me took a hit today. Calling up a talk show host (no matter how out of line that host was) and swearing at him on the air is not what Chicago White Sox baseball is all about. And then he becomes at least partially responsible for us blowing a late lead and, hence, the game against our crosstown rival.

Not to sound like Hangar, but there certainly are some media entities who have it in for us. All our manager did today is embarrass our franchise and do nothing but give fodder to those who have it in for us. He fulfilled their biggest fantasy!

Meanwhile, I'm going to come right our and say it: Release MacDougal...NOW. Then we can keep Logan and Sweeney.

sox1970
05-18-2007, 10:06 PM
For the people that want Mike MacDougal released, traded, designated for assignment, etc., chill out. He's signed through 2009, with a team option for 2010. He's not going anywhere. He'll be ok, especially when/if the offense gets better.

Viva Medias B's
05-18-2007, 10:08 PM
For the people that want Mike MacDougal released, traded, designated for assignment, etc., chill out. He's signed through 2009, with a team option for 2010. He's not going anywhere. He'll be ok, especially when/if the offense gets better.

He better show it to me, then. SOON. Otherwise, the bolded statement would be Williams' biggest mistake since Ritchie.

JB98
05-18-2007, 10:11 PM
He better show it to me, then. SOON. Otherwise, the bolded statement would be Williams' biggest mistake since Ritchie.

Mac was pretty good for us in April. Hell, he was pretty good for us yesterday. I might consider using him in less pressure-packed situations for the time being, but I think you're being a little extreme here.

PeoriaSoxFan
05-18-2007, 10:16 PM
What the **** was Ozzie doing with Buehrle? First off, why do you pull him (and don't give me the "Because Ozzie didn't want him to lose the game" bull****) in that situation, secondly, if such a short hook is necessary why the **** don't you just pinch hit for him in the top half of the inning (ESPECIALLY WITH 1 OUT AND A RUNNER IN SCORING POSITION), and finally of all the pitchers he could bring in why did he go with a guy who's been really struggling lately?

What a waste by the Sox, they had one and let it get away. Not acceptable no matter who the opponent.


Good post. I agree. Of course, a struggling bullpen makes everything the manager does look questionable.

Just got a jab from a Cubs fan. Dang, this sucks. :angry:

LongLiveFisk
05-18-2007, 10:21 PM
Just got a jab from a Cubs fan. Dang, this sucks. :angry:

I sent a text message to a Cub fan friend. All it said was "Congratulations on the big win today. So when's the parade?"

No response back. :tongue:

SOXandILLINI
05-18-2007, 10:21 PM
Just got home from work. I am not happy with our manager today; not saying he should be fired or anything like that, but his stock with me took a hit today. Calling up a talk show host (no matter how out of line that host was) and swearing at him on the air is not what Chicago White Sox baseball is all about. And this he becomes at least partially responsible for blowing a late lead and, hence, the game against our crosstown rival.

Not to sound like Hangar, but there certainly are some media entities who have it in for us. All our manager did today is embarrass our franchise and do nothing but give fodder to those who have it in for us. He fulfilled their biggest fantasy!

Meanwhile, I'm going to come right our and say it: Release MacDougal...NOW. Then we can keep Logan and Sweeney.

look, i really don't care what people think about my opinion, and yes a large percentage of my posts take ozzie to task, there have been posts where i applauded ozzie, usually when it came to retaliating against being thrown at, but you are exactly right, ozzie is and has been an embarrassment to the organization time and time again. it is also no secret that i find his decision making processes highly questionable in an ever more increasing number.

i don't care for ozzie as a manager, or for that manner, as a man. he spends wat too much time looking in the stands, for whatever reason, and i think most of us know why. he also spends an inordinate amount of time explaining away his "misstatements" by lack of knowledge of our language, although he has been here for 30 years.... no sale ozzaroo... our fan base was also very quick to forgive or forget the fact that ozzie, when attendance was way down and booing regularly for poor play, while he was still an active white sox player, saying "EFF" the fans. perhaps? i may be being a little too harsh on our manager, but winning doesn't give anyone carte blanche to be a rectum, and i think alot of our fans excuse things because we won a world series.

it seems to me that too many people annoited ozzie as some kid of god, because we won a world championship, remember that one bob brenly won a world series as a manager, and now can't get hired as dog catcher. sometimes the stars align properly and no one or nothing is gonna keep you from winning, that seemed to me to be the 2005 white sox, and no one on earth was happier than me. i understand that many people are going to disagree with me, and that's fine, but i truly believe ozzie is a substandard manager, and his pr skills are unreal, and no matter if you agree with me or not about his managing prowess, it amazes me how many people on this board continually stick up for his adolescent behavior time and time again.

Viva Medias B's
05-18-2007, 10:35 PM
Meanwhile, everything in our division is going 100% wrong for us tonight.