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Lip Man 1
05-10-2007, 12:31 PM
Did anyone else notice this? (Chicago Tribune)

"After the game, however, Guillen raised some suspicions about the ventilation at the Metrodome.

"I don't know why, in the ninth inning the flags are always blowing," Guillen said. "Check it out [Thursday]. All of sudden, the ballpark starts getting cold, a little breeze."

Lip

SOXPHILE
05-10-2007, 12:34 PM
A story about this broke a couple of years ago, when a former Twinkie-Dome employee said that when the Twins batted, they would turn on the air conditioning to blow out towards the outfield, and then turn it off when the opposition came to bat.

voodoochile
05-10-2007, 12:55 PM
So THAT'S why Morneau's shot in the 10th on Tuesday made it to the top tier instead of only landing in the middle tier...:tongue:

WhiteSox5187
05-10-2007, 12:59 PM
I've heard Singleton say this before. I wouldn't be shocked.

jdm2662
05-10-2007, 01:03 PM
I remember Ozzie Smith hinting this after the 1987 World Series. This has been an urban myth for a while, but it's been never proven.

MVPMorneau
05-10-2007, 01:26 PM
Did anyone else notice this? (Chicago Tribune)

"After the game, however, Guillen raised some suspicions about the ventilation at the Metrodome.

"I don't know why, in the ninth inning the flags are always blowing," Guillen said. "Check it out [Thursday]. All of sudden, the ballpark starts getting cold, a little breeze."

Lip

This keeps being brought up, but it's ludicrous. They have vents all around the inside rim of the stadium. They are blowing out from behind home plate (although not nearly hard enough to affect a ball), but they are also blowing in from centerfield. And why it happens late in the game is the dome is supported by air, when you are preparing for fans to leave the game and some air to be let out, you increase the air pressure inside to balance it out. Simple as that.

I like Ozzie, but I think he has too much time on his hands or something like that. He should have a :gulp: and relax.

BeefyD
05-10-2007, 08:04 PM
Everyone should read the interview with Roger Bossard in the "This Old House" advertisement in the latest S.I. Apparently everyone does little things to help the home team win....:D:

dllrbll7
05-10-2007, 08:13 PM
Everyone should read the interview with Roger Bossard in the "This Old House" advertisement in the latest S.I. Apparently everyone does little things to help the home team win....:D:

Which SI? I just got the 5/14 one and didnt see it in there, can't seem to find the one before that. Any idea of the page number?

BanditJimmy
05-10-2007, 08:17 PM
That Dome is a dump.


The only highlight of going to a game there is when you leave the park and the air pressure of the park pushes you out the door.

BeefyD
05-10-2007, 09:04 PM
Which SI? I just got the 5/14 one and didnt see it in there, can't seem to find the one before that. Any idea of the page number?

It's the one with Grady Sizemore on the cover. There's a "This Old House" section of mostly advertisements. Don't know if that's subscriber only or not.
Let me go check what page number its on....

Frater Perdurabo
05-10-2007, 09:12 PM
Everyone should read the interview with Roger Bossard in the "This Old House" advertisement in the latest S.I. Apparently everyone does little things to help the home team win....:D:

The difference is that both teams play on the same field. It's not like Bossard can go out between half innings and mow the grass one way, and then during the next half-inning, mow it another way.

Having the fans blow out when the Twins bat and blow in when the opposition bats is inexcusable and it's cheating.

Of course, I wouldn't expect any different from an organization that sees no problem playing baseball on that POS artificial turf.

Trav
05-10-2007, 10:01 PM
The difference is that both teams play on the same field. It's not like Bossard can go out between half innings and mow the grass one way, and then during the next half-inning, mow it another way.

Having the fans blow out when the Twins bat and blow in when the opposition bats is inexcusable and it's cheating.

Of course, I wouldn't expect any different from an organization that sees no problem playing baseball on that POS artificial turf.

Hope you haven't watched any games on Old Comiskey's infield artificial turf then...

WhiteSox5187
05-10-2007, 11:38 PM
Hope you haven't watched any games on Old Comiskey's infield artificial turf then...
God that was weird..."Let's put artificial turf in, but only in the infield." Extra weird because most of the Sox pitchers were ground ball inducing guys.

BeefyD
05-10-2007, 11:39 PM
The section in the SI is a 10-page "This Old House" advertising section. Near the front of the mag.

As for what Roger says, he recalls days with his dad (groundskeeper for the Cleveland Indians back in the days) and how when they faced hard hitting teams, they would soak the grass between the mound and home to slow grounders...

He explains how infielders (Ozzie, Robin, Julio Cruz) liked the dirt certain ways (hard in the back half for better footing, soft in the front to slow balls) and how you can tilt the areas at the foul lines to help the balls stay fair or go foul. He explains that people could soak the infield between first and second to slow base stealers (which, as he explains, usually gets caught during batting practice, but you can soak it the night before and put dry material on top to look dry). Buerhle likes the pitcher's mound extra moist. There were other things that he said he would reveal after he retires. Now THAT's a book I'd need to read.

Frater Perdurabo
05-11-2007, 07:21 AM
Hope you haven't watched any games on Old Comiskey's infield artificial turf then...

The Sox realized the error and corrected it. :D: Also, that was before it was proven that turf caused more injuries.

On a side note, anyone remember when Bears WR Wendell Davis blew out both knees on the turf in Philly? :o:

C-Dawg
05-11-2007, 07:40 AM
The Sox realized the error and corrected it. :D: Also, that was before it was proven that turf caused more injuries.



I've never seen any really good pictures of the turf at old Comiskey - was it really as odd looking as it sounds? I only saw it in person once before it was ripped out, and I was, I think, 9 years old.

Minnesota's artificial turf always looks like a frozen golf course in January to me.

Luke
05-11-2007, 10:31 AM
The section in the SI is a 10-page "This Old House" advertising section. Near the front of the mag.

As for what Roger says, he recalls days with his dad (groundskeeper for the Cleveland Indians back in the days) and how when they faced hard hitting teams, they would soak the grass between the mound and home to slow grounders...

He explains how infielders (Ozzie, Robin, Julio Cruz) liked the dirt certain ways (hard in the back half for better footing, soft in the front to slow balls) and how you can tilt the areas at the foul lines to help the balls stay fair or go foul. He explains that people could soak the infield between first and second to slow base stealers (which, as he explains, usually gets caught during batting practice, but you can soak it the night before and put dry material on top to look dry). Buerhle likes the pitcher's mound extra moist. There were other things that he said he would reveal after he retires. Now THAT's a book I'd need to read.

I think it was Bossard's dad that said they used to soak the area in front of the plate with gas, and then light it, to harden in up if they were facing a knuckle or sinker baller. If the Sox had a knuckler going, they would soak the area in front of the plate to deaden any wild pitches.

SBSoxFan
05-11-2007, 10:59 AM
Well, that certainly wouldn't help this Twins team. I heard Singleton say they had 5 (?) guys in the starting lineup yesterday who hadn't homered. The thing that's really annoying is all the cheap little infield hits they seem to get. And for some reason they seem to get them from the 7th inning on. Hunter should've been too embarrassed to accept a 23-game hitting streak. I guess Contreras took care of all of those issues though. :D:

tebman
05-11-2007, 11:11 AM
I've never seen any really good pictures of the turf at old Comiskey - was it really as odd looking as it sounds? I only saw it in person once before it was ripped out, and I was, I think, 9 years old.

As I remember it, it looked pretty bad. Kind of pale and ratty the way cheap indoor-outdoor carpets looked on patios when those were fashionable many years ago. But during those years the old park looked pretty bad in general because the White Sox were broke and MLB was trying to move them to Seattle. When Veeck bought the team in December of '75, he had to hastily arrange a loan before he closed the deal because the Sox couldn't meet the next payroll. The crummy infield was somehow fitting.

That was among the dark times in White Sox history, along with Terry Bevington's tenure. Not sure which was worse. :tongue:

soxinem1
05-11-2007, 11:56 AM
I think the karma of the place is more the culprit. I remmeber Rich Dotson having a 4 or 5 hit shut out in 1984 going into the ninth, only to lose on a three-run inside the park HR.

I also remember a game in 1983 when the Sox had a 5-1 lead, then all the stupid 14 foot bounces and crap led to a 7-5 loss. The list of crazy occurances, scrubs getting three run game-winning singles and homers, and the like has been going on for 30 years.

Denny Hocking, Justin Morneau, Gary Gaetti, Kirby Puckett, Tom Brunansky, Les Straker, Greg Gagne, Mike Pagliarulo, Steve Lombardozzi, it does not matter. The place is enchanted and I cannot wait till they tear it down, because any Twin with a bat is dangerous in that place.

Foulke You
05-11-2007, 12:18 PM
The Sox realized the error and corrected it. :D: Also, that was before it was proven that turf caused more injuries.

On a side note, anyone remember when Bears WR Wendell Davis blew out both knees on the turf in Philly? :o:
From what I've read, turf was very trendy back then which is why the Sox put it in the infield. Almost every ballpark that was built around that time (3 Rivers, Busch Stadium, Kaufmann, etc) had turf. Lots of teams were going to turf because it was the modern "hip" thing to do. It's kind've like the short fence "quirky" ballpark dimensions are nowadays. It's weird for us to look back at that part of Sox history and wonder what they were thinking with the turf but the reality is they were doing what dozens of other teams around baseball were doing.

Foulke You
05-11-2007, 12:22 PM
This keeps being brought up, but it's ludicrous. They have vents all around the inside rim of the stadium. They are blowing out from behind home plate (although not nearly hard enough to affect a ball), but they are also blowing in from centerfield. And why it happens late in the game is the dome is supported by air, when you are preparing for fans to leave the game and some air to be let out, you increase the air pressure inside to balance it out. Simple as that.

I like Ozzie, but I think he has too much time on his hands or something like that. He should have a :gulp: and relax.
Sorry bro, I don't buy it. I attended a Sox/Twins game in 2003 at the Dome and sat in LF facing home plate. I experienced the "wind patterns" of the dome myself. When the Sox were batting, the "wind" was at my back and when the Twins were batting, the "wind" was blowing in my face. My wife noticed it as well. I have no idea if the air causes enough of a jetstream to carry a ball out, but they were certainly changing the air currents based on who was batting. I can't wait until the Twins get their new stadium so we can play baseball in Minneapolis the way it was meant to be played.

Lip Man 1
05-11-2007, 01:17 PM
J. C. Martin's interview with WSI contains some of the funniest stuff I've ever heard concerning what the Sox used to do in the 60's. That's when all teams had a real 'home field' advantage.

Here's the part about J.C. telling me what the Sox used to do to the home plate area:

JCM: (laughing) "I have no information that actually happened. But I will tell you this, the balls that year were the heaviest and had the highest seams Iíve ever seen. When a ball is moist the seams pop up and that went on all year.

Iíll tell you a story, we were playing the Twins and Harmon Killebrew hit a shot to right center and he stood there and watched it. Well the ball hit the wall and Harmon had to suddenly start running. So the next time he comes up, he tells me, ĎJ.C. thereís something going on with those balls.í He knew when he hit a ball good and when it should have been a home run!

Remember that we had other advantages at Comiskey Park. Gene Bossard our head groundskeeper, drilled two holes in the dirt in front of home plate. Heíd stick a hose in those and flood the whole area, turning it into mud. You couldnít have driven a ball past our infield with a cannon. The ball would hit that mud on its way out to the infield and just die.

Hereís another story, I swear itís true. Right before a game one time against Minnesota, I saw the whole Twins team come out of the dugout and start stomping the ground in front of home plate. Everybody! They were trying to pack that loose dirt back down."

Lip

Cuck_The_Fubs
05-11-2007, 01:58 PM
So THAT'S why Morneau's shot in the 10th on Tuesday made it to the top tier instead of only landing in the middle tier...:tongue:
Wouldn't cold air just make the ball travel a bit slower, unlike when it's hot out?
:?:

SBSoxFan
05-11-2007, 01:59 PM
I think the karma of the place is more the culprit. I remmeber Rich Dotson having a 4 or 5 hit shut out in 1984 going into the ninth, only to lose on a three-run inside the park HR.

That one was due to the carpet. Somebody hit a duck snort to right that Baines couldn't get to. The ball bounced over a leaping Baines' outstretched glove :o:, resulting in the event you described above.

I think they changed the turf a few years ago.

chisox77
05-11-2007, 07:37 PM
To this day, Whitey Herzog felt that the Cardinals were cheated out of winning the 1987 World Series because of the Metrodomes' quirks. However, I remember the Minnesota fans being very loud and supportive of the Twins, which is a great home field advantage factor.

:cool:

Daver
05-11-2007, 07:49 PM
I've never seen any really good pictures of the turf at old Comiskey - was it really as odd looking as it sounds? I only saw it in person once before it was ripped out, and I was, I think, 9 years old.

Minnesota's artificial turf always looks like a frozen golf course in January to me.

If you go to "Memories of Old Comiskey" section on the main page of this site there is a photo tour of the park that includes a good aerial shot of the Comiskey turf days.

HITMEN OF 77
05-11-2007, 07:55 PM
God that was weird..."Let's put artificial turf in, but only in the infield." Extra weird because most of the Sox pitchers were ground ball inducing guys.


Most of the Sox players during that time period couldn't hit the ball to the outfield, so they "hoped" for more ground ball hits.

Vernam
05-11-2007, 10:02 PM
If you go to "Memories of Old Comiskey" section on the main page of this site there is a photo tour of the park that includes a good aerial shot of the Comiskey turf days.I'm such a sucker for that era, I even liked the AstroTurf infield. IMO, that's how all turf fields should be, with dirt basepaths instead of dirt just around the bases. I'm sure it's harder to keep up, though. Might give some weird hops, too.

Also, artificial turf outfields are an abomination.

Vernam

Frater Perdurabo
05-12-2007, 01:11 AM
I was born in 1976, so it's not like I remember the early 70s. However, as much as Astro-Turf may have been "trendy," remember also that the age of the cookie-cutter multi-purpose stadiums - Three Rivers, Riverfront, Busch, the Vet, the Astrodome (where they actually tried but failed to grow grass), etc. - many big cities had financial problems. Cities wanted stadiums that could accommodate both football and baseball (and other events), and maintaining turf is much cheaper than maintaining natural grass. This was even more attractive when the cost of gasoline spiked in 1973 and again in 1979 (electric mowers really are not practical for large playing fields).

So, the real trend was to try to save money in every way possible. Cutting down on mowing, watering, re-sodding, weeding and labor expenses helped the bottom line. Moreover, turf could accommodate a football game and then a week's worth of baseball games, and then a rock concert, and still be "playable" for another NFL game.

comerica
05-12-2007, 01:53 AM
given the state of the metrodome, I find it surprising that they even have the technology to accomplish this.

FireMariotti
05-12-2007, 02:14 AM
I wonder if this new "grass-turf" technology trend will ever catch on in outdoor baseball stadiums like it has with football stadiums. In the long run, the fake stuff seems like a cheaper alternative than having a grounds crew mow it every day.

I played a HS football game a couple years ago on that fake grass, and I didn't notice much of a difference between it and regular grass. The only noticeable thing was the "rubber dirt" specks that would fly up in your face when you hit the ground. The best part about was that after the game my muddy football cleats were as clean as the day they were bought.

That being said, I still prefer natural grass over the fake stuff. Tradition I guess.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-12-2007, 10:12 AM
The difference is that both teams play on the same field. It's not like Bossard can go out between half innings and mow the grass one way, and then during the next half-inning, mow it another way.

Having the fans blow out when the Twins bat and blow in when the opposition bats is inexcusable and it's cheating.

Of course, I wouldn't expect any different from an organization that sees no problem playing baseball on that POS artificial turf.

Supposedly there was a study conducted by the University of Minnesota suggesting that flyballs might travel as much as five feet further with favorable winds from inside the HumpDome's ventilation system. They also concluded (beyond all comprehension) that five feet doesn't make any difference... and all the boy scouts living in the State of Minnesota went to bed sleeping better knowing their team wasn't the biggest bunch of cheats in all of Major League Baseball.

Don't worry about it. The taxpayers of Minne-no-place aren't paying nearly enough in taxes already, so now they are going to cough up the price of a new playpen for the Twins, too. The Hump-Dump will be either torn down or turned into what it suits best: hosting tractor pulls and second-rate NFL talent.

:cool:

Frater Perdurabo
05-12-2007, 12:20 PM
I wonder if this new "grass-turf" technology trend will ever catch on in outdoor baseball stadiums like it has with football stadiums. In the long run, the fake stuff seems like a cheaper alternative than having a grounds crew mow it every day.

I played a HS football game a couple years ago on that fake grass, and I didn't notice much of a difference between it and regular grass. The only noticeable thing was the "rubber dirt" specks that would fly up in your face when you hit the ground. The best part about was that after the game my muddy football cleats were as clean as the day they were bought.

That being said, I still prefer natural grass over the fake stuff. Tradition I guess.

As for this new rubberized "field turf" or whatever it's called, I would be concerned over the hygiene (I guess it would be the same as Astroturf, though). Over time, there has to be an increased risk of staph infection if an open wound is exposed to potentially unwashed inorganic material.

At least with grass, the top of the grass is cut, and water "washes" the grass frequently. Furthermore, the natural bacteria found in the topsoil just beneat a natural grass surfance consumes much of the body fluids that players leave behind.

So this is a serious question: What is done to clean artificial turf?

Lip Man 1
05-12-2007, 01:00 PM
I believe that they have devices that do something like this, I've seen them here at Holt Arena (which is turf) for Idaho State events.

Lip

Frater Perdurabo
05-12-2007, 08:59 PM
I believe that they have devices that do something like this, I've seen them here at Holt Arena (which is turf) for Idaho State events.

Lip

Is that the arena with the blue turf? :smile:

comerica
05-12-2007, 09:03 PM
the tigers are playing the twins in minnesota this weekend and I had almost forgotten how terrible that place is. What an embarrassment of a stadium

Oblong
05-12-2007, 09:23 PM
Back in the Pontiac Silverdome days, Jason Hanson was attempting a winning FG. The ball appeared to be good but at the last minute it veered off, as if a gust of wind got a hold it. It was determined that somebody opened a door or gate and the change in air pressure or something caused the gust.

Lip Man 1
05-13-2007, 01:12 PM
No that's Boise State.

Lip

Madscout
05-13-2007, 02:46 PM
What is with the "wall" or outfield "fence"? It looks like they took some garbage bags and sewed them together. You would think that they would put up a real one, but if they did I guess Hunter wouldn't be able to jump over it as much as he does. That has to be a big injury risk.

ma-gaga
05-14-2007, 10:45 AM
Supposedly there was a study conducted by the University of Minnesota suggesting that flyballs might travel as much as five feet further with favorable winds from inside the HumpDome's ventilation system. They also concluded (beyond all comprehension) that five feet doesn't make any difference...
...
Don't worry about it. The taxpayers of Minne-no-place aren't paying nearly enough in taxes already...

I remember when you banned Fwqwads over this. I thought that it was because the scientists couldn't prove that the 5 feet could be accurately and repeatedly directed "in" or "out", therefore, it was deemed inconclusive... But it's been a long time since I read that report. :cool:

Personally, I'm self-admitedly very foolishly happy about the 0.15% tax increase for my new ballpark ("3 cents on every $20"). But I'm in a position where I can afford it. ... That said, my 'second rate' NFL team has to contribute a more than 40% to their proposal before I'm jumping on board or harrassing my legislators for their stadium drive.

:cool:

TwinKess
05-14-2007, 04:37 PM
Are we back to this again? Jeez...

The big vents behind home plate are passive intake vents for recycling air, the blowers ring the roof of the dome, and can only blow, not suck. The U of M study quoted above (which I searched for on Google but couldn't find anything) found that any difference in balls hit with the fans off or on (again you cant make the fans suck) was within the margin of error of the study.

Why don't we talk about the swastika in the roof?

BlackAndWhite
05-14-2007, 04:45 PM
While I'm obviously glad that the Twins will be done with the Dome for a variety of reasons, the death of the AC controversy is in the top 3. Blaming a supposed, hidden, covered-up conspiracy for unpalatable results, it's almost as bad as believing in a curse.

:)

QCIASOXFAN
05-14-2007, 04:47 PM
Why don't we talk about the swastika in the roof?
:unsure:

MUsoxfan
05-14-2007, 04:58 PM
While I'm obviously glad that the Twins will be done with the Dome for a variety of reasons, the death of the AC controversy is in the top 3. Blaming a supposed, hidden, covered-up conspiracy for unpalatable results, it's almost as bad as believing in a curse.

:)



I'm with you, except for your blinding version of "teal". I was at the Metrodome a year ago and proudly wore a button on my Sox jersey in support of a new stadium. In this day and age of new stadiums, it's an absolute shame it too them so long to get it together.

Although....there will be some mighty cold baseball from time to time up in the Twin Cities