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View Full Version : Williams comments on the trade, adios Porzio


Jerry_Manuel
03-27-2002, 07:36 PM
From whitesox.com

Sox scouts had been on high on Marte for several years and when pitcher Todd Ritchie vouched for his former teammate, general manager Ken Williams was convinced he had to make the deal.

"These type of guys are a rare commodity, as are the Matt Guerrier-type guys," said Williams. "And the guy we gave up was a quality guy who went 18-4 for (Triple-A Charlotte) last year. But all in all, we felt the need that we had was the overriding factor."

"The most important thing is we're dealing with fairness right here," Williams said. "We think the players we have gotten in return from them are going to help us out as well."

Williams said Marte will definitely start the season on the 25-man roster, which means left-hander Mike Porzio is probably destined for Charlotte.

Jerry_Manuel
03-27-2002, 07:38 PM
I found this interesting.

The Sox are debating whether to start the season with 11 or 12 pitchers. Already set in the bullpen are Keith Foulke, Antonio Osuna, Gary Glover, Lorenzo Barcelo, Kelly Wunsch and, now, Marte.

Manuel said Tuesday that Howry is not "definitely on the team, a lot of things can transpire from here until we leave."

Williams didn't want to reveal who is getting bumped from the bullpen until he had a chance to inform the players.

"In all fairness to the rest of the guys I would prefer not to speak on that just yet," Williams said.

cheeses_h_rice
03-27-2002, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
I found this interesting.

The Sox are debating whether to start the season with 11 or 12 pitchers. Already set in the bullpen are Keith Foulke, Antonio Osuna, Gary Glover, Lorenzo Barcelo, Kelly Wunsch and, now, Marte.

Manuel said Tuesday that Howry is not "definitely on the team, a lot of things can transpire from here until we leave."

Williams didn't want to reveal who is getting bumped from the bullpen until he had a chance to inform the players.

"In all fairness to the rest of the guys I would prefer not to speak on that just yet," Williams said.



So if Howry isn't on the squad, that means just 11 pitchers? Why? So we can bring both Harris and Liefer up?

MarqSox
03-27-2002, 07:53 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice


So if Howry isn't on the squad, that means just 11 pitchers? Why? So we can bring both Harris and Liefer up?

Sounds to me like Howry's on the trade block. I think he's got enough value to bring in a No. 4 starter if we packaged a B-level prospect.

Daver
03-27-2002, 07:59 PM
Originally posted by MarqSox


Sounds to me like Howry's on the trade block. I think he's got enough value to bring in a No. 4 starter if we packaged a B-level prospect.

He has no value till he proves he is healthy.When you only throw one pitch for a strike you better throw it pretty damn well.

Cheryl
03-27-2002, 08:02 PM
Somebody's being shopped around, but I don't see how it can be Howry.

cheeses_h_rice
03-27-2002, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl
Somebody's being shopped around, but I don't see how it can be Howry.

:KW

Jon Rauch, Joe Borchard, Matt Ginter and Mitch Wylie for Lou Collier -- I like the sound of that!

Chisoxfn
03-27-2002, 09:14 PM
No way will get a #4 starter from Howry. Remember we have KW at the heml. He'll trade Howry for a PTBNL or trade for Julio Ramirez cause he thought it was a mistake to cut him.

I could say his past moves had some sense behind him but this move makes sense for only one reason and its cause it shows you just how stupid KW really is. It shows you how poorly he evaluates talent.

As far as Ramos is conserned I'd consider him very similar to Guerrier and the A's were able to get Pena for him, Carlos Pena, the best 1st base prospect in the minors. Now I know it was a minor league move but it was still getting talent.

We didn't get some top prospect, hell we didn't get a top major league lefty specialist.

We better not make any more trades cause if we do it will be the end of Borchard and the rest of the minor leaguers.

czalgosz
03-27-2002, 09:19 PM
Well, Kermit's comments calmed me down a bit, but I still am not happy with this trade. I haven't seen either Guerrier or Marte pitch, so I guess my expertise on the matter is limited.

On the roster situation - I wouldn't be surprised to see Howry start the season on a rehab assignment and one or two of the Liefer/Rowand/Lee trio get traded for a pitcher. If Williams can get good value for one of those three, I just might forgive him.

Daver
03-27-2002, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


On the roster situation - I wouldn't be surprised to see Howry start the season on a rehab assignment and one or two of the Liefer/Rowand/Lee trio get traded for a pitcher. If Williams can get good value for one of those three, I just might forgive him.

Of the 3 I would hope it would be Lee.

czalgosz
03-27-2002, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by daver


Of the 3 I would hope it would be Lee.

I hope so too - a Liefer/Rowand platoon in left field would probably be more productive than Lee every day, and Lee would bring more in trade than either of the other two.

I think the organization really likes Lee, though. Something tells me that they wouldn't want to trade him.

Daver
03-27-2002, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


I think the organization really likes Lee, though. Something tells me that they wouldn't want to trade him.

He's a young player with a lethal bat,and Frank Thomas ain't getting any younger.

czalgosz
03-27-2002, 09:39 PM
Originally posted by daver


He's a young player with a lethal bat,and Frank Thomas ain't getting any younger.

There you go - but something tells me that it's easier to find a DH in this day and age than it is to find a good pitcher.

Here's what I'd like to see as the lineup if Frank isn't around in a couple years -

1. Harris - CF
2. Hummel - 2B
3. Borchard - LF
4. Ordonez - RF
5. Konerko - 1B
6. Crede - 3B
7. Liefer/Rowand - DH
8. Olivo/Mark Johnson - C
9. (shortstop?)

We've basically got the lineup for 5 years from now filled out, with only one hole in it, barring major injury.

We can quibble with the details (Maybe Borchard really can play center, and maybe they'll put Harris at second and Hummel at short, maybe Andy Gonzalez or someone will come through), but the point is that I don't think trading Carlos Lee will create any long-term holes.

Daver
03-27-2002, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


We can quibble with the details (Maybe Borchard really can play center, and maybe they'll put Harris at second and Hummel at short, maybe Andy Gonzalez or someone will come through), but the point is that I don't think trading Carlos Lee will create any long-term holes.

Harris really doesn't have the arm for center,but SS might be a possibility for him.I think Borchard can grow into the CF position.

rmusacch
03-27-2002, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
Well, Kermit's comments calmed me down a bit, but I still am not happy with this trade. I haven't seen either Guerrier or Marte pitch, so I guess my expertise on the matter is limited.

On the roster situation - I wouldn't be surprised to see Howry start the season on a rehab assignment and one or two of the Liefer/Rowand/Lee trio get traded for a pitcher. If Williams can get good value for one of those three, I just might forgive him.

With Lenny's track record, I would not count on it.

czalgosz
03-27-2002, 09:53 PM
Originally posted by daver


Harris really doesn't have the arm for center,but SS might be a possibility for him.I think Borchard can grow into the CF position.

I hope you're right about Borchard, but I don't like the idea about him in center and Lee in left, no matter how potent that makes the lineup.

CerberusWG
03-27-2002, 11:01 PM
yes, Lee has a very good bat, but he has RETCHID plate discipline. He strikes out far too much on up and away pitches, and does not take many walks. in 99 and 01 his OBP was arund .310, and 200 it was at a good .340 .350

If we can say get Lee and maybe Howry for Gagne, I'd do it, but i doubt Howry would be enough.

How about Igniter? :smile:

Pete_SSAC
03-27-2002, 11:06 PM
:walk :ginter
*stero*Who, me?*stero*

- Pete

kermittheefrog
03-27-2002, 11:28 PM
Originally posted by Chisoxfn
As far as Ramos is conserned I'd consider him very similar to Guerrier and the A's were able to get Pena for him, Carlos Pena, the best 1st base prospect in the minors. Now I know it was a minor league move but it was still getting talent.

Mario Ramos and Matt Guerrier are similar in stuff but there are two big differences between them.

1) Ramos is lefthanded. Rightly or not that's a bigass difference and makes Ramos more valuable.

2) In about the same number of innings (80) at AAA Mario Ramos struck out 82 batters and Guerrier struck out just 43. That's a big difference, strikeouts are key to young pitchers development. Guys that don't strikeout anyone fade fast, even control artists like Greg Maddux and Tom Glavine tend to stay close to league average K rates. btw- the difference in IP between Ramos and Guerrier was just 1 IP.

For anyone wondering Ramos is a B+ grade prospect in the Stats Minor League Scouting Notebook.

Randar68
03-28-2002, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by czalgosz
We've basically got the lineup for 5 years from now filled out, with only one hole in it, barring major injury.

We can quibble with the details (Maybe Borchard really can play center, and maybe they'll put Harris at second and Hummel at short, maybe Andy Gonzalez or someone will come through), but the point is that I don't think trading Carlos Lee will create any long-term holes.

Well, just for the record, if this were the case, I am almost certain you'd see Borchard in RF and Maggs in Left...

duke of dorwood
03-28-2002, 09:55 AM
Well, JM & KW will tear down Howry's trade value even more than it is, so expect another weak trade for more minor league infielders.

:jerry

:KW

Tagged Team Champions

RichH55
03-28-2002, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by CerberusWG


If we can say get Lee and maybe Howry for Gagne, I'd do it, but i doubt Howry would be enough.



UGH

Whats the tag for the barfing?