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View Full Version : Cubs receive Matt Clement, Antonio Alfonseca


Vsahajpal
03-27-2002, 01:51 PM
for 3 minor leaguers and Tavarez

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/gen/wire?messageId=8233194

MLB radio says the minor leaguers are Jose Cueto, Ryan Jorgensen, and Dontrelle Willis

Jerry_Manuel
03-27-2002, 01:56 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
for 3 minor leaguers and Tavarez

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/gen/wire?messageId=8233194

MLB radio says the minor leaguers are Jose Cueto, Ryan Jorgensen, and Dontrelle Willis

How good are those "prospects", Vic?

moochpuppy
03-27-2002, 01:57 PM
Nice trade. I do have to say McPhail knows his stuff.

:KW

"I could have pulled that off."

MattSharp
03-27-2002, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by moochpuppy
I do have to say McPhail knows his stuff.

Do you have a death wish?

RedPinStripes
03-27-2002, 01:59 PM
This really hurts after seeing what the Sox got today.

moochpuppy
03-27-2002, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by MattSharp


Do you have a death wish?

"Foolish man give wife grand piano, wise man give wife upright
organ."

Now guess which one is KW and which one is McPhail.

Vsahajpal
03-27-2002, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


How good are those "prospects", Vic?

Cueto is a 2 pitch pitcher, slider/fastball, he'll be 23 I believe this season, and was scheduled to start at double A West Tenn. He was rated the 16th best prospect in the system, should make a good reliever some day

Jorgensen was the #22 prospect, the best defensive catcher in the system, not much offense though, a real good guy though. Now the Cubs have no catching prospect, heh.

Willis was a projectable LHP, a poor man's Corwin Malone if you will. Similar size to Malone 6'4 200, throws 89-91 with the fastball, and has a plus curveball. He's just 19, should be at low A ball next year. In terms of ceiling, his loss means the most, but I do think the Cubs got the better end of the deal, especially considering Tavarez is gone.

Jerry_Manuel
03-27-2002, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
Cueto is a 2 pitch pitcher, slider/fastball, he'll be 23 I believe this season, and was scheduled to start at double A West Tenn. He was rated the 16th best prospect in the system, should make a good reliever some day

Jorgensen was the #22 prospect, the best defensive catcher in the system, not much offense though, a real good guy though. Now the Cubs have no catching prospect, heh.

Willis was a projectable LHP, a poor man's Corwin Malone if you will. Similar size to Malone 6'4 200, throws 89-91 with the fastball, and has a plus curveball. He's just 19, should be at low A ball next year. In terms of ceiling, his loss means the most, but I do think the Cubs got the better end of the deal, especially considering Tavarez is gone.

Good info Vic, sounds like a good deal for the Cubs.

duke of dorwood
03-27-2002, 03:48 PM
This just rubs it in today. (Or is that Cubs it in?)

HawkDJ
03-27-2002, 04:25 PM
Before we label this a great trade for the Cubs, keep in mind all the problems with Alfonseca. He has gained alot of weight, ended the season with back problems. I'm not sure if he had sugery or not but either way is not good for him. He also lost control of his pitches towards the end of the season. With all those problems he will be lucky to be even close to as good as he once was.

The Cubs giving up Tavarez is good for them but they gave up some decent prospects. I'm not saying this was a bad trade for the Cubs but I wouldn't say it was great.

Vsahajpal
03-27-2002, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by HawkDJ2k2
Before we label this a great trade for the Cubs, keep in mind all the problems Alfonseca. He has gained alot of weight, ended the season with back problems. I'm not sure if he had sugery or not but either way is not good for him. He also lost control of his pitches towards the end of the season and is in the last year of his contract.

The Cubs giving up Tavarez is good for them but they gave up some decent prospects. I'm not saying this was a bad trade for the Cubs but I wouldn't say it was great.


That's true, Clement may never live up to his billing, either.

kermittheefrog
03-27-2002, 05:08 PM
It's a good trade, the Cubs got some upside in Clement. Alfonseca isn't all that special. He's what I call a golden C closer. He is going to get a lot of cash and maintain value because he's gotten opportunity to close. His 3.77 career ERA is more than a run higher than real closers like Wagner, Hoffman and Rivera. The Cubs would be better off giving the closer job to the most talented guy in their pen, Kyle Farnsworth.

RichH55
03-27-2002, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog
It's a good trade, the Cubs got some upside in Clement. Alfonseca isn't all that special. He's what I call a golden C closer. He is going to get a lot of cash and maintain value because he's gotten opportunity to close. His 3.77 career ERA is more than a run higher than real closers like Wagner, Hoffman and Rivera. The Cubs would be better off giving the closer job to the most talented guy in their pen, Kyle Farnsworth.


Don Baylor must have huge issues on Farnsworth........no reason he shouldnt have been handed the closers role when Gordon went down

RichH55
03-27-2002, 05:43 PM
Still a good deal for the Cubs.......getting Clement will be helpful too

RichH55
03-27-2002, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal


Cueto is a 2 pitch pitcher, slider/fastball, he'll be 23 I believe this season, and was scheduled to start at double A West Tenn. He was rated the 16th best prospect in the system, should make a good reliever some day

Jorgensen was the #22 prospect, the best defensive catcher in the system, not much offense though, a real good guy though. Now the Cubs have no catching prospect, heh.

Willis was a projectable LHP, a poor man's Corwin Malone if you will. Similar size to Malone 6'4 200, throws 89-91 with the fastball, and has a plus curveball. He's just 19, should be at low A ball next year. In terms of ceiling, his loss means the most, but I do think the Cubs got the better end of the deal, especially considering Tavarez is gone.

Nice Work Vic.....still our favorite sufferer of the Stockholm syndrome

Soxheads
03-27-2002, 06:12 PM
Dosen't Alfonseca have six fingers on one of his hands.

Jjav829
03-27-2002, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by Soxheads
Dosen't Alfonseca have six fingers on one of his hands.

He actually has six fingers on both his hands.

Soxheads
03-27-2002, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by Jjav829


He actually has six fingers on both his hands.

Does this affect his pitches much?

spaz
03-27-2002, 06:22 PM
This trade in the short term helps the cubs strickly for the fact that they get some nice substraction by losing travez.

However what they got the fat injury plagued reliver and clemet(who craps in his pants as much as the kip) is not the greatest prize package of all time.


What the marlins got was a decent catching prospect(who are rare in today's game) an unknown very young pitching prospect and catero a pretty good pitching prospect , who by the way prospectus liked.

So all in all in the short term probably good for the cubs, however in the long term the marlins get the better end of this deal.

czalgosz
03-27-2002, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by spaz
This trade in the short term helps the cubs strickly for the fact that they get some nice substraction by losing travez.

However what they got the fat injury plagued reliver and clemet(who craps in his pants as much as the kip) is not the greatest prize package of all time.


What the marlins got was a decent catching prospect(who are rare in today's game) an unknown very young pitching prospect and catero a pretty good pitching prospect , who by the way prospectus liked.

So all in all in the short term probably good for the cubs, however in the long term the marlins get the better end of this deal.

I don't know if it really helps the Cubs at all... Alfonseca is probably one of the most overrated relievers out there, and the comparison between Clement and Kip Wells is right on. I don't know if the North Side is the right place for Clement to work out his problems.

To McPhail's credit, he didn't give up much for them, and got rid of a potential clubhouse problem, but the media's acting like the Cubs just made the deal of the century. I just don't see it.

rmusacch
03-27-2002, 08:54 PM
Originally posted by RichH55



Don Baylor must have huge issues on Farnsworth........no reason he shouldnt have been handed the closers role when Gordon went down

Maybe Baylor wants to go with some experience. If the experience fails, maybe he will go with Farnsworth. I cannot say that I really blame him.

czalgosz
03-27-2002, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by rmusacch


Maybe Baylor wants to go with some experience. If the experience fails, maybe he will go with Farnsworth. I cannot say that I really blame him.

There's no doubt in my mind that Kyle Farnsworth would make a better closer than Antonio Alfonseca. There's doubt in Baylor's mind, though, which apparently was enough. I don't understand why organizations look outside for solutions to problems when the answer is inside.

Vsahajpal
03-27-2002, 09:26 PM
what's stockholm syndrome???

kermittheefrog
03-27-2002, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by Vsahajpal
what's stockholm syndrome???

It's when someone is taken into captivity and falls in love with his/her captor. You were taken into captivity by the Cubs/Northside and embraced them. *Yetch*

czalgosz
03-27-2002, 09:37 PM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


It's when someone is taken into captivity and falls in love with his/her captor. You were taken into captivity by the Cubs/Northside and embraced them. *Yetch*

Mentioned in the movie, "Die Hard", although they called it "The Helsinki Syndrome".

News Anchor - "As in Helsinki, Sweden."

Terrorism Expert - "Finland."

Kilroy
03-28-2002, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by Jjav829


He actually has six fingers on both his hands.

All I can think is:

"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."


If you got that, you're laughing. If you didn't, explaining it won't make it funnier.

RedPinStripes
03-28-2002, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by Kilroy


All I can think is:

"Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."


If you got that, you're laughing. If you didn't, explaining it won't make it funnier.

That was a real cheezy movie. :D:

Kilroy
03-28-2002, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by RedPinStripes


That was a real cheezy movie. :D:

No doubt. But it had its moments.

"Stop that rhyming now! I mean it!"

"Anybody want a peanut?"

You can't tell me you're not doubled over laughing right now...

baggio202
03-28-2002, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by czalgosz


I don't understand why organizations look outside for solutions to problems when the answer is inside.

shouldnt you be saying that about williams :?:

RichH55
03-28-2002, 10:02 AM
Originally posted by czalgosz


Mentioned in the movie, "Die Hard", although they called it "The Helsinki Syndrome".

News Anchor - "As in Helsinki, Sweden."

Terrorism Expert - "Finland."

Damnit now you have me questioning myself....I need an answer here

RichH55
03-28-2002, 10:03 AM
Originally posted by kermittheefrog


It's when someone is taken into captivity and falls in love with his/her captor. You were taken into captivity by the Cubs/Northside and embraced them. *Yetch*


Actually I was talking about the fact that hes a Cubs fan whose a regular on a Sox board...but that works too:)

LongDistanceFan
03-28-2002, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by Kilroy


No doubt. But it had its moments.

"Stop that rhyming now! I mean it!"

"Anybody want a peanut?"

You can't tell me you're not doubled over laughing right now... lmao........ my kids enjoyed watching that movie and i like it.

czalgosz
03-28-2002, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by RichH55


Damnit now you have me questioning myself....I need an answer here

It's really called the Stockholm syndrome... and Helsinki is in Finland. does that answer your question?