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Fenway
05-07-2007, 02:03 PM
2 names are being mentioned in Boston as being how the Red Sox will try to counter the Clemens coronation in New York. Rich Harden or Mark Buehrle.(Gammons think it is most likely that Buehrle will wind up in Boston by July)

One thing is certain Buehrle's price just went up.....way up.

2 months from now if the White Sox fade you know KW is going to be hit by offers.

QCIASOXFAN
05-07-2007, 02:07 PM
Who do we get in return?:unsure:

CHISOXFAN13
05-07-2007, 02:09 PM
2 names are being mentioned in Boston as being how the Red Sox will try to counter the Clemens coronation in New York. Rich Harden or Mark Buehrle.(Gammons think it is most likely that Buehrle will wind up in Boston by July)

One thing is certain Buehrle's price just went up.....way up.

2 months from now if the White Sox fade you know KW is going to be hit by offers.

**** Gammons. There won't be a fire sale here. The team is hitting .225 yet is right there in the race in the toughest division in baseball. *****.

This Boston/New York bull**** is really starting to get to me.

102605
05-07-2007, 02:09 PM
2 names are being mentioned in Boston as being how the Red Sox will try to counter the Clemens coronation in New York. Rich Harden or Mark Buehrle.(Gammons think it is most likely that Buehrle will wind up in Boston by July)

One thing is certain Buehrle's price just went up.....way up.

2 months from now if the White Sox fade you know KW is going to be hit by offers.

Yeah I am sure there are 20+ other teams that would love to have him too. This is a WORTHLESS POST AND THREAD about a hypothetical Boston rotation. Is everything that comes out of Gammons mouth like the gospel to you Boston fans?

Should I go to the RedSux Nation fan board and start a thread about Manny being traded once the Yankees catch up and bury the Red Sox in July?

Just because they are tied to this being mentioned by Gammons I think I have now moved the Red Sox about the Yankees on my despised organizations list.

Fenway
05-07-2007, 02:12 PM
Yeah I am sure there are 20+ other teams that would love to have him too. This is a worthless post AND THREAD about a hypothetical Boston rotation. Is everything that comes out of Gammons mouth like the gospel to you Boston fans?

Should I go to the RedSux Nation fan board and start a thread about Manny being traded once the Yankees catch up and bury the Red Sox in July?

Just passing on the garbarge coming out here. You have no idea how insane the coverage is over Clemens today.

But Boston will make a splash to counter the Yankees ( who or what we don't know )

HotelWhiteSox
05-07-2007, 02:14 PM
No need to be offended, just a hypothetical that can be pretty likely if the Sox are in trouble after June.

102605
05-07-2007, 02:15 PM
Just passing on the garbarge coming out here. You have no idea how insane the coverage is over Clemens today.

But Boston will make a splash to counter the Yankees ( who or what we don't know )


Boston doesn't even need to make a spash. Can anyone argue that a 43 year old Clemens will make a bigger difference than a healthy Jon Lester?

Yeah I guess his stature is bigger but if things go any bit sour for Clemens it will also be magnified 10x.

spiffie
05-07-2007, 02:16 PM
The Red Sox have coveted Mark for a while. If more injuries or an anomalous continued cold spell does end up hurting the Sox I'm sure Kenny will listen to what they have to offer. Of course, they better offer a LOT more than Coco Crisp if they don't want to hear Kenny laughing as he hangs up the phone.

Fenway (or minor league gurus), what if anything theoretically do the Red Sox have that could, assuming the worst for the Sox, possibly tempt Kenny to send Buehrle there? Because it seems to me the cupboard is kind of bare at this point in Boston.

Fenway
05-07-2007, 02:20 PM
Only the White Sox know how much they would offer Buehrle and in this insane pitching market his price went up by a couple of million yesterday after the Clemens deal.

KW's problem comes down to this. If he can't sign him does he move him to get value while he can. Or does he just hope the White Sox can win it in 2007 and worry later? But his phone will be wringing off the hook.

KW can't allow himself to make the same mistake the Nationals did with Soriano.

Fenway
05-07-2007, 02:22 PM
Fenway (or minor league gurus), what if anything theoretically do the Red Sox have that could, assuming the worst for the Sox, possibly tempt Kenny to send Buehrle there? Because it seems to me the cupboard is kind of bare at this point in Boston.


This is a pretty objective look at Boston's system
http://soxprospects.com/

Everything in Boston depends on how well Lester bounces back.

WizardsofOzzie
05-07-2007, 02:22 PM
:rolleyes: Nothing more needs to be said

itsnotrequired
05-07-2007, 02:23 PM
Who do we get in return?:unsure:

This is what I wonder about. fenway, any insights or rumors?

102605
05-07-2007, 02:30 PM
KW can't allow himself to make the same mistake the Nationals did with Soriano.

The market value and what that means to smaller market teams absolutely sickens me. Baseball is headed down a very wrong path.

Since the prices are not going to change the White Sox better be bringing the market value to the table with Buehrle. You don't let your 28 year old left handed ace just get away like that. We won a World Series championship 2 years ago and stay in the top 6 in payroll (if I am not mistaken) every year. You build a championship around pitching. I don't care how many highly toughted AA prospects KW can collect for him, he should be off the table.

Dye, Iguchi, and possibly Crede (before Buehrle) should be the ones to be traded before Mark would be.

There is no reason why the White Sox should not be able to ante up and keep Buehrle for the money he will get. If that means increasing payroll than so be it.

Edit: Are the White Sox on the same level as the Nationals?

spiffie
05-07-2007, 02:31 PM
This is a pretty objective look at Boston's system
http://soxprospects.com/

Everything in Boston depends on how well Lester bounces back.
Not particularly impressive. None of their top graded prospects has done anything beyond A ball at this point. And while Kenny loves young pitching, he seems to like young pitching that has succeeded at the high levels of the minors, not A ball.

skottyj242
05-07-2007, 02:32 PM
Why are the Red Sox even worried about this? They have the best record in baseball and the Yankees pitching is done. So what if Clemens shuts you down for the max six innings he's gonna pitch then you get the bullpen. Mariano isn't what he used to be. I hate the Red Sox though and I hope the Yankees get hotter than hot and crush the Sux, except for in two weeks or so when they play us.

balke
05-07-2007, 02:38 PM
Harden is far more likely to go to Boston, unless we are getting some great pitching prospect in return that is ready to pitch now.

A's are scrambling to make deals, and ESPN has already reported they are interested in getting rid of Harden due to his injury history.

Sox are 4 games out, not 10. This series with Minnesota could change things if we don't perform well, but right now I think the Sox will make a run at the Central.

That being said, I wouldn't be shocked in the least if Dye ends up in Beantown. That would really suck too, cause Drew would be coming in the exchange. I can see the right deal coming along right now for Dye out of Boston. A part of me hates the idea, the other part thinks it might be smart seeing how the offseason might turn out.

Fenway
05-07-2007, 02:40 PM
Why are the Red Sox even worried about this? .

I agree they shouldn't be BUT it is the Yankees.....

History tells you NYY will bounce back strong and Boston usually chokes.

But 2004 reversed roles....... I think

PatK
05-07-2007, 02:41 PM
Didn't Gammons also say Schmidt was coming to the WhiteSox in 2005?

102605
05-07-2007, 02:41 PM
But 2004 reversed roles....... I think

What did 2006 do then?

Domeshot17
05-07-2007, 02:42 PM
This is why I hate Boston and New York. New York Signs Clemens, so now the big Boston homer reporter is finding ways teams will make the Red Sox better. Its like they really believe teams like Oakland and The White Sox will say "**** winning, lets make Boston a better team so they can get more coverage on ESPN!"

I am sure now ESPN will be saying how smart it is to trade all these pitchers to Boston, and they will hype it hard, but yah, screw um. We don't play to make Boston better. If we are out of the race, yah, maybe we trade Crede Burls Dye if we know (a) we can't resign them and (b) we get a ransom for them.

Fenway
05-07-2007, 02:43 PM
What did 2006 do then?

touche

CLR01
05-07-2007, 02:46 PM
But his phone will be wringing off the hook.

I don't know about KDub but I hate it when my phone starts wringing off the hook.

balke
05-07-2007, 02:48 PM
Was the last time we dealt with Boston the Keith Foulke fiasco? I like dealing with the Yankees more I think.

CLR01
05-07-2007, 02:48 PM
If he's going to trade him, KW should trade Buehrle to the Yankees just to see Gammons and the rest of the sad Red Sox nation cry.

CLR01
05-07-2007, 02:50 PM
This is why I hate Boston and New York. New York Signs Clemens, so now the big Boston homer reporter is finding ways teams will make the Red Sox better.


Come on now, that's not nice. Gammons spent 5 whole minutes talking about the Sox after they won the World Series. He's good people...

Mickster
05-07-2007, 02:52 PM
If he's going to trade him, KW should trade Buehrle to the Yankees just to see Gammons and the rest of the sad Red Sox nation cry.

I think that KW and Cashman are pretty good friends and NYY have a few young prospects (particularly the ones from the Tigers organization that they got for Sheffield) that would be better than anything that Boston could offer.

BeeBeeRichard
05-07-2007, 02:52 PM
Was the last time we dealt with Boston the Keith Foulke fiasco? I like dealing with the Yankees more I think.

Javier Lopez for David Riske was the last SOX-sox deal. Foulke was traded to Oakland.

Nellie_Fox
05-07-2007, 02:54 PM
The Yanks/Sawx is all that matters. Selig will order the Sox to send Buehrle to Boston in order re-balance the universe. No compensation will be given, as it's "for the good of the game."

balke
05-07-2007, 02:54 PM
Javier Lopez for David Riske was the last SOX-sox deal. Foulke was traded to Oakland.

That just further proves the point, hehe. :cool:

Flight #24
05-07-2007, 02:59 PM
This is a pretty objective look at Boston's system
http://soxprospects.com/

Everything in Boston depends on how well Lester bounces back.

A package centering on Lester and Wily Mo Pena would be interesting. WMP is still fairly young and has shown flashes of bigtime power. He is apparently a big of a flake ala Manny, but it could be a decent flier on a guy who could provide more power than the current slate of young OFs in the system project to have if/when Dye leaves. Lester looked like a decent young MLB pitcher. Probably have to get someone else to make it worthwhile, but I think I'd rather have WMP than Crisp. Coco doesn't do much for me.

palehozenychicty
05-07-2007, 03:06 PM
A package centering on Lester and Wily Mo Pena would be interesting. WMP is still fairly young and has shown flashes of bigtime power. He is apparently a big of a flake ala Manny, but it could be a decent flier on a guy who could provide more power than the current slate of young OFs in the system project to have if/when Dye leaves. Lester looked like a decent young MLB pitcher. Probably have to get someone else to make it worthwhile, but I think I'd rather have WMP than Crisp. Coco doesn't do much for me.

I'd take Crisp on this team. He's better defensively than Pods, with the same style of play.

soxtalker
05-07-2007, 03:16 PM
Only the White Sox know how much they would offer Buehrle and in this insane pitching market his price went up by a couple of million yesterday after the Clemens deal.

KW's problem comes down to this. If he can't sign him does he move him to get value while he can. Or does he just hope the White Sox can win it in 2007 and worry later? But his phone will be wringing off the hook.

KW can't allow himself to make the same mistake the Nationals did with Soriano.

I agree. While we're only 4 games back, such a trade is unlikely. But we've got three other really good teams to climb over, and it is entirely conceivable that the situation may not look so good by the July timeframe. If that happens, maybe we're better off if there is a good market already shaping up for trades.

PaulDrake
05-07-2007, 03:21 PM
The market value and what that means to smaller market teams absolutely sickens me. Baseball is headed down a very wrong path.

I've been saying that until I'm blue in the face for a long time now. It seem like this time things are really getting ready to spiral out of control. I wish the Yankees would have about 100 straight years of losing seasons.

soxfan13
05-07-2007, 03:21 PM
Was the last time we dealt with Boston the Keith Foulke fiasco? I like dealing with the Yankees more I think.

No. Foulke was dealt to Oakland for Cotts and Koch and another player.

Jjav829
05-07-2007, 03:21 PM
Jon Lester and Clay Buchholz and it's a deal (if we fall out of the race). :smile:

Grzegorz
05-07-2007, 03:22 PM
All this talk is very interesting... On the Cleveland Indians blog 'Let's Go Tribe' there is a thread, fueled by a Chicago Sun Times piece, going about a Chicago White Sox fire sale at mid season.

Naturally those participating on the thread are looking at getting some bullpen help.

Jjav829
05-07-2007, 03:27 PM
All this talk is very interesting... On the Cleveland Indians blog 'Let's Go Tribe' there is a thread, fueled by a Chicago Sun Times piece, going about a Chicago White Sox fire sale at mid season.

Naturally those participating on the thread are looking at getting some bullpen help.

Firesale isn't the right word, but if things are looking bleak for the Sox near the trade deadline, I'd say there is a good chance that KW shops Buehrle and Dye.

There's not going to be a firesale. KW didn't trade for all these bullpen arms just for this season. They're going to be around for a while, unless they can bring something in return that helps us more. But for the players who will be free agents after the season, it's certainly possible KW would shop them around because it's the right business decision.

But there are still a few months of baseball left to be played. It's certainly possible that we'll be right in the middle of the AL central race near the trade deadline and looking to buy rather than sell.

balke
05-07-2007, 03:27 PM
No. Foulke was dealt to Oakland for Cotts and Koch and another player.



My gosh, how could I have forgotten that? HAHAHA. Koch... wow those were the good ole days.

balke
05-07-2007, 03:28 PM
Firesale isn't the right word, but if things are looking bleak for the Sox near the trade deadline, I'd say there is a good chance that KW shops Buehrle and Dye.

There's not going to be a firesale. KW didn't trade for all these bullpen arms just for this season. They're going to be around for a while, unless they can bring something in return that helps us more. But for the players who will be free agents after the season, it's certainly possible KW would shop them around because it's the right business decision.

I'm wondering if we get swept by Minnesota (which should be unlikely) if that'll spark somethng. This isn't a division where you want to fall 7 games back. Its also possible the right trade could help us win now.

Let me add: I think its far more likely, and I half expect to sweep Minnesota, not vice-a-versa. That would just be heartbreaking if we even lost this series though.

Grzegorz
05-07-2007, 03:30 PM
Hey, I love this one...

"Bringing Thome back would be like inviting your girlfriend back into your home after she sleeps with your worst enemy."

Ha, ha, ha...

A little adversity in Chicago on your enemies are ready to start shoveling dirt our White Sox...

C'mon Chicago White Sox; kick this division in the arse...

The reason I am trolling the Indians board is because I looking for the announcement that the Tribe is bringing up Adam Miller. My fantasy baseball team is rich in pitching injuries

itsnotrequired
05-07-2007, 03:30 PM
Jon Lester and Clay Buchholz and it's a deal (if we fall out of the race). :smile:

Could you imagine the Sox rotation in a couple years with that trade? Unreal...

skottyj242
05-07-2007, 03:30 PM
I've been saying that until I'm blue in the face for a long time now. It seem like this time things are really getting ready to spiral out of control. I wish the Yankees would have about 100 straight years of losing seasons.

Why does everyone blame the Yankees for this when the Red Sox are just as bad?

Flight #24
05-07-2007, 03:35 PM
I'd take Crisp on this team. He's better defensively than Pods, with the same style of play.

Coco Crisp in his best year hit .300 with a .345OBP and 15SB. His high in SB is 22. His career BA/OBP are .281/.327. He is not Pods by any stretch. While he might hit for a higher avg, the OBP would be similar and the speed is far less.

I like Pena because he's younger than Crisp (25 v. 27), and he's got the potential to be an impact power hitter. Crisp probably has a higher floor, but is at best a 15HR / 20SB guy who hits .280. Meh. Pena can be a 35HR guy who bats .270-280. Assuming that long-term, one of the corner slots goes to Sweeney/Anderson/Owens it'd be nice to have a bigtime power threat in LF (since it's highly unlikely there will be one in CF).

Buchholz, Lester, Pena for Buehrle in the unlikely event the Sox fall out of it would be fine by me.

spiffie
05-07-2007, 03:39 PM
Come on now, that's not nice. Gammons spent 5 whole minutes talking about the Sox after they won the World Series. He's good people...
And then in minute 6 they explained to him that it was the WHITE Sox, not the RED Sox who won, at which point he went quiet.

D. TODD
05-07-2007, 03:50 PM
Coco Crisp in his best year hit .300 with a .345OBP and 15SB. His high in SB is 22. His career BA/OBP are .281/.327. He is not Pods by any stretch. While he might hit for a higher avg, the OBP would be similar and the speed is far less.

I like Pena because he's younger than Crisp (25 v. 27), and he's got the potential to be an impact power hitter. Crisp probably has a higher floor, but is at best a 15HR / 20SB guy who hits .280. Meh. Pena can be a 35HR guy who bats .270-280. Assuming that long-term, one of the corner slots goes to Sweeney/Anderson/Owens it'd be nice to have a bigtime power threat in LF (since it's highly unlikely there will be one in CF).

Buchholz, Lester, Pena for Buehrle in the unlikely event the Sox fall out of it would be fine by me.Crisp on defense is light years ahead of Pods though, and Pods is having chronic leg problems which minimizes his only asset stealing bases. I too would like to see a little more pop in the outfield though. To me Crisp >>Pods even though they have both struggled the past year and a half.

Jjav829
05-07-2007, 03:53 PM
Buchholz, Lester, Pena for Buehrle in the unlikely event the Sox fall out of it would be fine by me.

That would work for me. :smile:

Of course, we'd probably be lucky to get just Lester, but we can dream...:D:

itsnotrequired
05-07-2007, 03:53 PM
Crisp on defense is light years ahead of Pods though, and Pods is having chronic leg problems which minimizes his only asset stealing bases. I too would like to see a little more pop in the outfield though. To me Crisp >>Pods even though they have both struggled the past year and a half.

Forget Crisp, let's get them to throw in Jacoby Ellsbury.

*deep pink implied*

oeo
05-07-2007, 03:56 PM
I'd take Crisp on this team. He's better defensively than Pods, with the same style of play.

If we've already fallen out of it (and that's the only reason we would trade Buehrle), what does Crisp do for us? Why not just go after Ichiro over the offseason?

MDF3530
05-07-2007, 03:56 PM
Yeah I am sure there are 20+ other teams that would love to have him too. This is a WORTHLESS POST AND THREAD about a hypothetical Boston rotation. Is everything that comes out of Gammons mouth like the gospel to you Boston fans?

Should I go to the RedSux Nation fan board and start a thread about Manny being traded once the Yankees catch up and bury the Red Sox in July?

Just because they are tied to this being mentioned by Gammons I think I have now moved the Red Sox about the Yankees on my despised organizations list.Here's a hyperlink for ya, just to make it easier :cool: : http://www.talksox.com (http://www.talksox.com/)

mccoydp
05-07-2007, 03:57 PM
**** Gammons. There won't be a fire sale here. The team is hitting .225 yet is right there in the race in the toughest division in baseball. *****.

This Boston/New York bull**** is really starting to get to me.

Need I remind you that New York and Bah-stun comprise the focal point around which the rest of the teams revolve?

Your comments sum up my feelings...well said.

D. TODD
05-07-2007, 04:03 PM
If we've already fallen out of it (and that's the only reason we would trade Buehrle), what does Crisp do for us? Why not just go after Ichiro over the offseason? I agree, just commenting on the Pods/Crisp comparison. I'm not sure at all that KW would like the Crisp contract over looking for a better value/fit if he goes the trade route.

spiffie
05-07-2007, 04:12 PM
I agree, just commenting on the Pods/Crisp comparison. I'm not sure at all that KW would like the Crisp contract over looking for a better value/fit if he goes the trade route.
Bingo. IF any of the big names get traded from the Sox this summer, it won't be for mid-level major league talent. It will be for more young high-ceiling prospects who the Sox would control for the next 5-10 years.

palehozenychicty
05-07-2007, 04:19 PM
Crisp on defense is light years ahead of Pods though, and Pods is having chronic leg problems which minimizes his only asset stealing bases. I too would like to see a little more pop in the outfield though. To me Crisp >>Pods even though they have both struggled the past year and a half.

Thank you. People expecting Pods to be the Pods of 03 and 05 are fooling themselves.

balke
05-07-2007, 04:30 PM
Crisp on defense is light years ahead of Pods though, and Pods is having chronic leg problems which minimizes his only asset stealing bases. I too would like to see a little more pop in the outfield though. To me Crisp >>Pods even though they have both struggled the past year and a half.

Thank you. People expecting Pods to be the Pods of 03 and 05 are fooling themselves.

Who's fooled, I'll take the Pods of 06' or any other year over Crisp if that's the best we can get out of a deal for Buehrle. In fact, I'd take him over Crisp anyways.

DrewSox56
05-07-2007, 04:45 PM
[quote=palehozenychicty;1564654]

Who's fooled, I'll take the Pods of 06' or any other year over Crisp if that's the best we can get out of a deal for Buehrle. In fact, I'd take him over Crisp anyways.

Agree with that. I do NOT want to see Coco Crisp in a Sox uniform, ever.

UserNameBlank
05-07-2007, 06:28 PM
This is all so funny. The same night Buehrle pitched his no-no, the ESPN guys were all talking about how Mark hadn't been the same pitcher over "the last few years" and how terrible he was last year. They completely disregarded his performance in the playoffs of '05, his selection to the AS game both in '05 and '06, and now as soon as Boston wants a pitcher he becomes one of the best lefties in baseball.

**** ESPN. I hope the Sox and Mark's agent reach out to each other during the season and get something done, despite what KW says. He's just entering his prime and I don't know if there is another lefty starter in baseball other than Santana who would put up numbers as good as Mark's in the Cell.

UserNameBlank
05-07-2007, 06:41 PM
Firesale isn't the right word, but if things are looking bleak for the Sox near the trade deadline, I'd say there is a good chance that KW shops Buehrle and Dye.

There's not going to be a firesale. KW didn't trade for all these bullpen arms just for this season. They're going to be around for a while, unless they can bring something in return that helps us more. But for the players who will be free agents after the season, it's certainly possible KW would shop them around because it's the right business decision.

But there are still a few months of baseball left to be played. It's certainly possible that we'll be right in the middle of the AL central race near the trade deadline and looking to buy rather than sell.

I love Thornton and MacDougal but if the Sox did fall out I'd like to see these guys shopped. Both are 30 and at the top of their game while everyone else in the pen is 26 or younger. Seeing what Mike Gonzalez got for the Pirates, KW could essentially turn Borchard+Lumsden+Cortes into an impact player. Sisco could take over Thornton's role, Aardsma could take over MacDougal's role, and Day could be brought up and/or KW could go out and get another project.

I'm probably in the minority but I don't think the Sox are going to get a whole lot for Dye or Buehrle so I hope they stay. Nobody wanted to trade a top prospect with a high ceiling for Soriano last year so I suspect that continues. IIRC, rumors were that for the Sox to get Soriano it would have cost McCarthy, and KW only wanted to give up a package built around Lance Broadway. Carlos Lee brought the biggest package for a rental last year, but it also cost Nelson Cruz. Cordero, Mench, and Nix helped the Brewers, but I don't think any one of those guys would really help the Sox. If that is the best type of package available, I'd rather see KW hang on to both Dye and Mark and try to re-sign them. If not, offer arbitration and completely OWN the supplemental first round of the draft.

soxwon
05-07-2007, 06:43 PM
We are going all the way.
Im tired of if were out of it talk!!!
buehrle is ours, aint goin nowhere.

MarySwiss
05-07-2007, 07:06 PM
We are going all the way.
Im tired of if were out of it talk!!!
buehrle is ours, aint goin nowhere.

Ahhh, a voice of reason! :smile:

Vernam
05-07-2007, 07:49 PM
OK, bear with me on this . . . The Yankees will pay Clemens $28 million for four months, right? If the Sox fall from contention early, KW could ask the Red Sox -- or some equally desperate team, assuming that's even possible -- to fork over about $28 million for Buehrle. Then we use that money to re-sign him in the off-season. I could live with that, and it'd be way better than whatever prospects we'd get from Boston. :wink:

Vernam

Tragg
05-07-2007, 08:00 PM
2 names are being mentioned in Boston as being how the Red Sox will try to counter the Clemens coronation in New York. Rich Harden or Mark Buehrle.(Gammons think it is most likely that Buehrle will wind up in Boston by July)


That's right - Gammons has already conceded the division to the Indians. Last year, I believe, he had the Cubs defeating the Twins in the Worlds Series.

Tragg
05-07-2007, 08:06 PM
A package centering on Lester and Wily Mo Pena would be interesting. WMP is still fairly young and has shown flashes of bigtime power. He is apparently a big of a flake ala Manny, but it could be a decent flier on a guy who could provide more power than the current slate of young OFs in the system project to have if/when Dye leaves. Lester looked like a decent young MLB pitcher. Probably have to get someone else to make it worthwhile, but I think I'd rather have WMP than Crisp. Coco doesn't do much for me.
Now that, sounds like a good midseason deal IF we aren't going to sign the man past this season.
They've been trying to dump crisp since they got him - no thanks.
We don't need AA pitching prospects either.

Tragg
05-07-2007, 08:08 PM
.

There's not going to be a firesale. KW didn't trade for all these bullpen arms just for this season. They're going to be around for a while, unless they can bring something in return that helps us more. But for the players who will be free agents after the season, it's certainly possible KW would shop them around because it's the right business decision.

Frankly, if we are out of it, those are exactly what I would trade. Bullpen arms are replaceable and they have high value to contenders in July and August. Kenny got them cheap and he may be able to sell them high.

nodiggity59
05-07-2007, 08:27 PM
I'd definitely like to see MB, Dye, Thorton, or Mac traded if we aren't in it on July 31.

I'd like KW to target a couple of middle infielders for once though, instead of just pitchers. I'd like to see a young face there.

102605
05-07-2007, 08:31 PM
All of this talk of trading away our key pieces to the 2007 and 2008 Championship teams is ludicrous.

Daver
05-07-2007, 08:49 PM
All of this talk of trading away our key pieces to the 2007 and 2008 Championship teams is ludacris.

So is your spelling on ludicrous, but that would be better suited for a different thread.








:redneck

champagne030
05-07-2007, 09:09 PM
Jon Lester and Clay Buchholz and it's a deal (if we fall out of the race). :smile:

If we're forced to deal that would be a fantastic return. Lester is probably not on the table. A deal around Buchholz and hope Boston is eager to throw Hansen into the mix.

Coco Crisp in his best year hit .300 with a .345OBP and 15SB. His high in SB is 22. His career BA/OBP are .281/.327. He is not Pods by any stretch. While he might hit for a higher avg, the OBP would be similar and the speed is far less.

I like Pena because he's younger than Crisp (25 v. 27), and he's got the potential to be an impact power hitter. Crisp probably has a higher floor, but is at best a 15HR / 20SB guy who hits .280. Meh. Pena can be a 35HR guy who bats .270-280. Assuming that long-term, one of the corner slots goes to Sweeney/Anderson/Owens it'd be nice to have a bigtime power threat in LF (since it's highly unlikely there will be one in CF).

Buchholz, Lester, Pena for Buehrle in the unlikely event the Sox fall out of it would be fine by me.

I'm not a big fan of Crisp, but I'm also not a fan of WMP. I think he has a lot of upside offensively, but he makes Pods look like Willie Mays. Pena is a DH and a DH only.

Brian26
05-07-2007, 09:31 PM
We are going all the way.
Im tired of if were out of it talk!!!
buehrle is ours, aint goin nowhere.

Ahhh, a voice of reason! :smile:

Seriously! That came out of nowhere.

VenturaFan23
05-07-2007, 10:30 PM
Yeah I am sure there are 20+ other teams that would love to have him too. This is a WORTHLESS POST AND THREAD about a hypothetical Boston rotation. Is everything that comes out of Gammons mouth like the gospel to you Boston fans?

Should I go to the RedSux Nation fan board and start a thread about Manny being traded once the Yankees catch up and bury the Red Sox in July?

Just because they are tied to this being mentioned by Gammons I think I have now moved the Red Sox about the Yankees on my despised organizations list.

No, this is the voice of reason! :thumbsup:

**** Boston

Lukin13
05-07-2007, 10:37 PM
I just turned on ESPN Catorce and Gammons was shredding a nasty guitar solo blindfolded and riding a horse. When he was done he smashed his axe over Stuart Boo-yaas' head and proclaimed that Boston was interested in acquiring every Major League Baseball player who's contract is up at the end of '07. Peter also was spreading a rumor that they have bid $51 million to speak with every asian male between the age of 17 and 43.

No need for colored fonts.

102605
05-07-2007, 10:38 PM
No, this is the voice of reason! :thumbsup:

**** Boston

This thread belongs on the ESPN Red Sox forum. So it can be discussed with other nonsense such as the legend of Mat$uzaka.

IndianWhiteSox
05-07-2007, 11:50 PM
Now that, sounds like a good midseason deal IF we aren't going to sign the man past this season.
They've been trying to dump crisp since they got him - no thanks.
We don't need AA pitching prospects either.

While I agree with the basis of your post, the fact of the matter is that no matter what the situation is, you know KW wants as many good AA pitching prospects as he can get. Otherwise, I agree with you on the fact that Buehrle needs to be re-signed by the sox after this season.

OTOH, I wouldn't mind if the Sox got Crisp from the Sawx if it meant only giving up a career minor leaguer.

StillMissOzzie
05-07-2007, 11:51 PM
This is a pretty objective look at Boston's system
http://soxprospects.com/

Everything in Boston depends on how well Lester bounces back.

That's my nephew at #3 !!!

The Yanks/Sawx is all that matters. Selig will order the Sox to send Buehrle to Boston in order re-balance the universe. No compensation will be given, as it's "for the good of the game."

Well-played! LMAO!

OK, bear with me on this . . . The Yankees will pay Clemens $28 million for four months, right? If the Sox fall from contention early, KW could ask the Red Sox -- or some equally desperate team, assuming that's even possible -- to fork over about $28 million for Buehrle. Then we use that money to re-sign him in the off-season. I could live with that, and it'd be way better than whatever prospects we'd get from Boston. :wink:

Vernam
Not quite, from my understanding. The $28M is on an annual basis, but Roger will be getting paid at that rate once he returns to the bigs from his minor league tune-up during the month of May. He'll get appx $4.5M per month for the months of June, July, August, & Sept, for a total of a bit more than $18M. I guess he still had to bring home more than Zito, albeit for only 4 months of work this season. Ego? What ego?

SMO
:gulp:

IndianWhiteSox
05-07-2007, 11:57 PM
For some reason, I can just see Coco Crisp getting traded to Oakland for Rich Harden for the simple reason that the scum-laden A's will need more OF's since all of them seem injury prone.

FireMariotti
05-08-2007, 12:47 AM
So is your spelling on ludicrous, but that would be better suited for a different thread.








:redneck

http://www.daveyd.com/ludacris97.jpgI'm sick of all this trade talk:redneck

WhiteSox5187
05-08-2007, 01:41 AM
The only way Mark Buerhle, Joe Crede, Jermaine Dye or Iguchi are traded is if the Sox are ten or more games out of the wild card at the end of June and that's not going to happen. I've said it before and I will say it again, MB is either going to re-sign with us or sign with St. Louis. I have a hard time seeing him pitch in Boston or New York.

whitesoxfan
05-08-2007, 01:50 AM
I get really ****ing annoyed at the stupid back and forth crap that goes on between the two organizations that shall not be named. You have one of those organizations with the best record in the league that has a good offense and pretty solid pitching. You have another one of those organizations who just signed Clemens, but who else is in that rotation? They have no pitching.

The whole "We're going to try to outdo you guys" routine between the two eastern seabord ****hole teams needs to go out of the window. No one outside New England and New York gives a **** about either team.

chitownhawkfan
05-08-2007, 02:28 AM
If we do have to trade him I say we go with the spite trade and send him to the Yankees. Collectively as a fan base how much more pompous can you get??? **** the Red Sox and **** Old Man Boston.

rocky biddle
05-08-2007, 07:57 AM
I just turned on ESPN Catorce and Gammons was shredding a nasty guitar solo blindfolded and riding a horse. When he was done he smashed his axe over Stuart Boo-yaas' head and proclaimed that Boston was interested in acquiring every Major League Baseball player who's contract is up at the end of '07. Peter also was spreading a rumor that they have bid $51 million to speak with every asian male between the age of 17 and 43.

No need for colored fonts.

They just replayed this on the Ocho. I've still got chills.

Well done :thumbsup:

veeter
05-08-2007, 11:08 AM
I'd take Crisp on this team. He's better defensively than Pods, with the same style of play.Ryan Sweeney is better than Pods right now. He's just as fast too. If not faster.

palehozenychicty
05-08-2007, 11:13 AM
Ryan Sweeney is better than Pods right now. He's just as fast too. If not faster.

Yes he has been. He should play a lot even when Pods returns. I'm not sure about his durability anymore.

veeter
05-08-2007, 11:17 AM
Yes he has been. He should play a lot even when Pods returns. I'm not sure about his durability anymore.I'm quietly becoming very giddy about Sweeney. I don't want to get ahead of myself, but he might be special.

areilly
05-08-2007, 12:21 PM
The whole "We're going to try to outdo you guys" routine between the two eastern seabord ****hole teams needs to go out of the window. No one outside New England and New York gives a **** about either team.

Sadly, that's not true and we all know it. Hell, I've seen Yankees and Red Sox gear for sale on the streets of Calcutta and in South Korean shopping malls. I realize a lot of the blame for this falls on ESPN and MLB's approach in general, but there's no denying it worked: in those two teams, MLB has created two globally marketable brands.


E-VIL.

Fenway
05-08-2007, 12:45 PM
If you were making a deal with Boston the name Craig Hanson would come up.

This kid has raw talent the equal of Jenks but Boston brought him up too fast and his head is a mess after the Yankees got to him last August.

He did nothing in spring training and Boston was forced back to Papelbon.

He just had a horrific game in Buffalo as Pawtucket blew a 9 run lead in the 9th. Maybe Cooper could save this kid as he appears to be finished with Boston.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070506&content_id=238435&vkey=news_milb&fext=.jsp


Buffalo sent 13 men to the plate, with Ben Francisco's leadoff walk starting the rally. Craig Hansen failed to retire any of the seven batters he faced. Ryan Mulhern's two-run double chased Hansen, but Manny Delcarmen (0-1) retired Franklin Gutierrez on a popout. Luis Rivas reached on an error by shortstop Ed Rogers, allowing Brad Snyder to score.

whitesoxfan
05-08-2007, 12:47 PM
If you were making a deal with Boston the name Craig Hanson would come up.

This kid has raw talent the equal of Jenks but Boston brought him up too fast and his head is a mess after the Yankees got to him last August.

He did nothing in spring training and Boston was forced back to Papelbon.

He just had a horrific game in Buffalo as Pawtucket blew a 9 run lead in the 9th. Maybe Cooper could save this kid as he appears to be finished with Boston.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070506&content_id=238435&vkey=news_milb&fext=.jsp

No offense, but I don't want another project for a stud like Buehrle.

wdelaney72
05-08-2007, 01:17 PM
The only way Mark Buerhle, Joe Crede, Jermaine Dye or Iguchi are traded is if the Sox are ten or more games out of the wild card at the end of June and that's not going to happen.
I agree.

I've said it before and I will say it again, MB is either going to re-sign with us or sign with St. Louis. I have a hard time seeing him pitch in Boston or New York. I complete disagree with this. Forget what Mark has said and focus on his recent actions and look at the way the Cardinals operate. Mark Buehrle wants to be a free agent and get free-agent money. This will not come from the White Sox, nor will it come from the Cardinals, as like the White Sox, the Cardinals tend to shy away from ridiculous, max-dollar free agent signings. Another team will step up and offer more money than the Sox and Cards will be willing to spend. Period. The only way I see the White Sox matching his insane market value is if Buehrle leads the Sox to another WS title... then from a PR standpoint, the sox have no choice but to bring him back.

This isn't comparable to Soriano and the Nationals because the White Sox will be in playoff contention... they'll ride out the season with Mark and hope for the best.

soxtalker
05-08-2007, 03:04 PM
If you were making a deal with Boston the name Craig Hanson would come up.

This kid has raw talent the equal of Jenks but Boston brought him up too fast and his head is a mess after the Yankees got to him last August.

He did nothing in spring training and Boston was forced back to Papelbon.

He just had a horrific game in Buffalo as Pawtucket blew a 9 run lead in the 9th. Maybe Cooper could save this kid as he appears to be finished with Boston.

http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070506&content_id=238435&vkey=news_milb&fext=.jsp

That is an interesting thought -- a highly regarded prospect who probably needs a change of organization. Fits with KW's recent trading history.

Tragg
05-08-2007, 03:45 PM
That is an interesting thought -- a highly regarded prospect who probably needs a change of organization. Fits with KW's recent trading history.

We trade Joe Borchards for these guys - not Mark Buehrle

palehozenychicty
05-08-2007, 04:22 PM
We trade Joe Borchards for these guys - not Mark Buehrle

Bingo.

soxtalker
05-08-2007, 04:25 PM
We trade Joe Borchards for these guys - not Mark Buehrle

Why? We traded Garcia for a good mid-level prospect (Gio) and a fellow that was just past the prospect stage but had struggled with his team (Floyd). And the Phillies got Garcia for a whole year.

We don't know what prospects would be good in the Boston system. We can look at statistics, but KW seems to rely on scouts a lot. This fellow has struggled since being brought up too soon. I don't know whether he can come back or not. From what Fenway has said, though, it does appear that his value to the Red Sox has been diminished.

Rockin Robin
05-08-2007, 05:00 PM
No one outside New England and New York gives a **** about either team.

Hate them if you want, but that statement is pretty ridiculous...go to any road game for either Boston or NYY and see how many away jerseys you see.

balke
05-08-2007, 05:32 PM
I'd go to one of those games and brag about it after. Its a big deal to go see it. I should be just as proud to see a Giants-Dodgers game, or Sox-Twins, or Cubs-Cards game... but its probably not comparable.

balke
05-08-2007, 05:42 PM
The Sox are in a great spot to trade this season. Boston, Yanks and Mets all have pitching needs. Kenny might even be able to deal to make us better NOW, not just a "firesale" or plan for the future.

nodiggity59
05-08-2007, 06:46 PM
I would not mind acquiring Melky Cabrera

SBSoxFan
05-09-2007, 10:42 AM
Ryan Sweeney is better than Pods right now. He's just as fast too. If not faster.

:o: He was thrown out by Mike Redmond last night.

On another note, how sad is it when Darrin Erstad and Ryan Sweeney are your bright spots offensively?

IndianWhiteSox
05-09-2007, 11:04 AM
:o: He was thrown out by Mark Redman last night.

On another note, how sad is it when Darrin Erstad and Ryan Sweeney are your bright spots offensively?

You mean MIKE REDMOND as MARK REDMAN plays for the Braves.

But that is sad when that's the case with Erstad and Sweeney, unless both of them are batting .400 with a 20/20 season.

California Sox
05-09-2007, 03:38 PM
I would not mind acquiring Melky Cabrera

Umm, why?

The Sox are a long way from falling out of it. But, if the Sox trade Buerhle I hope the price is as steep as what we always seem to pay in similar situations. Usually that means a major leaguer, a prospect and a throw in. From the Red Sox, I wouldn't do the deal for Coco Crisp, but I would be interested in Jacoby Ellsbury, Clay Bucholtz, or Lester.

From the Yankees... I actually don't think there is a player they are willing to give up that makes it worthwhile. I only would be interested in Hughes or Tabata and I assume both of them are untouchable.

SBSoxFan
05-09-2007, 03:45 PM
You mean MIKE REDMOND as MARK REDMAN plays for the Braves.

But that is sad when that's the case with Erstad and Sweeney, unless both of them are batting .400 with a 20/20 season.

Thanks. I caught that later.

Who was the guy that had about 7 SB against while catching for the Nationals last year?

CHISOXFAN13
05-09-2007, 04:12 PM
Thanks. I caught that later.

Who was the guy that had about 7 SB against while catching for the Nationals last year?

Matthew LeCroy.

Chez
05-09-2007, 04:15 PM
Who was the guy that had about 7 SB against while catching for the Nationals last year?

It was a former Twin. Michael Restovich?

Chez
05-09-2007, 04:16 PM
Matthew LeCroy.

That's him.

chitownhawkfan
05-09-2007, 05:07 PM
Hate them if you want, but that statement is pretty ridiculous...go to any road game for either Boston or NYY and see how many away jerseys you see.

Just because ESPN serves as their mouthpiece doesn't mean I give a ****. I see a lot of Red Sox jerseys at Comiskey but when the Twins play I see a lot of those also. I don't think it was like this in the 70's, back then nobody gave a ****, ESPN's self fulfilling prophecy of those two teams being the most important has done more than anything. **** Boston, we are not sending anybody to the Red Sawx.

veeter
05-09-2007, 05:26 PM
:o: He was thrown out by Mike Redmond last night.

On another note, how sad is it when Darrin Erstad and Ryan Sweeney are your bright spots offensively?I hope we're not going to judge Sweeney's base stealing prowess based on one attempt. A terrific pitch for Redmond to get off a good throw. I don't think it's sad at all. Erstad has been a very good player for a long time. And Ryan is the Sox number one prospect. Is it so far fetched that each one would or could succeed? I know what you're saying, but both comments are negative in nature. Save the cheap shots for the media.