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View Full Version : Matsuzaka ain't Cy Young


Fenway
05-04-2007, 12:42 PM
Matsuzaka faced the Mariners for the second time last night and it wasn't pretty.


Right now Matsuzaka owns a 3-2 record and a 5.45 ERA.
He's being overshadowed by Okajima.


http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2007/05/04/inconsistent_matsuzaka_displays_his_wild_side/

What is weird about him is he can't seem to pitch from the stretch with any control. Right now he is a good 4th starter and that is it.

palehozenychicty
05-04-2007, 12:44 PM
Well, I felt the same thing from the start, that he was an above-average major league pitcher. Glad that the Mariners, amongst other teams, have validated it.

WizardsofOzzie
05-04-2007, 12:44 PM
I never saw this coming!!! There goes my $100 bet that he would win Cy Young, and carry the entire team on his back to the World Series with his gyroball :rolleyes:

ilsox7
05-04-2007, 12:44 PM
No surprise whatsoever. He may turn out to be an above average pitcher, but it seems it was mostly hype. Shocking!

soxfan13
05-04-2007, 12:47 PM
Matsuzaka faced the Mariners for the second time last night and it wasn't pretty.



http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2007/05/04/inconsistent_matsuzaka_displays_his_wild_side/

What is weird about him is he can't seem to pitch from the stretch with any control. Right now he is a good 4th starter and that is it.

There are a few pitchers out there like that. You also get the opposite where pitchers are more comfortable pitching from the stretch then they are pitching out of the wind up.

HotelWhiteSox
05-04-2007, 12:56 PM
On BBTN one of the hosts said, 'the one thing about this kid, he'll always keep you in the game'. He gave up 7 runs :?:

oeo
05-04-2007, 12:59 PM
Our man Danks is pitching better than that. :cool:

102605
05-04-2007, 01:02 PM
What is weird about him is he can't seem to pitch from the stretch with any control. Right now he is a good 4th starter and that is it.

Did he come with a refund policy for all the $$$ the Red Sox just spent?

VenturaFan23
05-04-2007, 01:07 PM
Wait a minute....according to ESPN wasn't he supposed to realign the planets, bring peace and love to everyone, and put a stop to worldwide hunger?? :?: How can they be wrong?

WhiteSoxJunkie
05-04-2007, 01:07 PM
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but what exactly is the difference between pitching from the windup and pitching from the stretch?

DSpivack
05-04-2007, 01:24 PM
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but what exactly is the difference between pitching from the windup and pitching from the stretch?

Runners on base. When runners are on, you can't go into the same complete windup, otherwise a lot of petty theft would occur.

skottyj242
05-04-2007, 01:36 PM
He's had what four starts and already he's a bust? :?:

PaulDrake
05-04-2007, 01:56 PM
I never did understand his contract negotiations. Didn't the BoSox pay a gazillion bucks just to have the honor of his presence, and a little more than that to actually sign him? In any case, it's too soon to judge him. Finding and keeping truly good pitchers for today's MLB remains a daunting task.

eriqjaffe
05-04-2007, 02:08 PM
He's had what four starts and already he's a bust? :?:What does that mean for McCarthy? :wink:

WizardsofOzzie
05-04-2007, 02:17 PM
He's had what four starts and already he's a bust? :?:
For as much hype as they built up about him, yes. They made it sound like he was going to break every record in the book and not allow a run all season, but you're right, in reality he still has a long ways to go before the bust tag is put on him

balke
05-04-2007, 02:25 PM
Next 2 months of articles: Josh Beckett new Roger Clemens?

StillMissOzzie
05-05-2007, 01:07 AM
Did he come with a refund policy for all the $$$ the Red Sox just spent?

But of course. You know Boras is all about protecting the team's downside.

SMO
:gulp:

FireMariotti
05-05-2007, 03:21 AM
I hate to say it considering the money that Matsuzaka is making, but the mediots are going to destroy this guy. I feel bad for him.

They hyped him to be the next big thing with untouchable stuff before he even stepped foot on a major league mound.

It's the classic hero pattern. You build some promising player/person up, then once they reach their pinnacle, you just tear them down.

Ozzie Guillen experienced this. He wins a World Series in 2005 and the media sings his praises as this refreshing manager that isn't afraid to speak his mind. The very next year, they nitpick at every word Ozzie says and try to ruin him. I guarantee that half the **** he got in trouble for last year wouldn't even had made print if he did not win the WS a year before.

I'm not looking for debate on Ozzie's managerial skills. IMO, he's only as good as his team is. Right now, he isn't very good. Neither is Joe Torre.

There's another example. The NY media sharks are just going to keep tearing Torre to shreds until he hits rock bottom.

Sadly, Dice-K reached his pinnacle the day he signed that outrageous contract. How can you blame him for it though? If I were in his shoes, I would have jumped at a fat paycheck too. Anyone would.

ma-gaga
05-05-2007, 02:29 PM
Johan Santana isn't pitching like a Cy Young pitcher yet either.

The mentality of some newspaper people astounds me. They'd rather shock and awe and sell a couple of extra papers, than tell the real story. Or even wait for the story to develop. Is this simply what "journalism" has become???

I guess, it's just the nature of the beast. and it makes me pretty sad. :?:

IndianWhiteSox
05-05-2007, 07:41 PM
What does that mean for McCarthy? :wink:

He sucks and is a total loser.

churlish
05-05-2007, 09:21 PM
This is a bit ridiculous. He's thrown six starts, is one of the league leaders in strikeouts, is adjusting to a completely new life, and he's already a bust?!?!?

He had three good starts and then three bad starts. If his ERA is around 5.5 in the middle of August, then you can call him a bust this year, but not in early May.

JB98
05-05-2007, 09:25 PM
Johan Santana isn't pitching like a Cy Young pitcher yet either.

The mentality of some newspaper people astounds me. They'd rather shock and awe and sell a couple of extra papers, than tell the real story. Or even wait for the story to develop. Is this simply what "journalism" has become???

I guess, it's just the nature of the beast. and it makes me pretty sad. :?:

As a practicing journalist, yes, that's what "journalism" has become. That's what the higher-ups want. Most of us in the trenches don't like it, but they're the ones that sign the checks.

bigfoot
05-06-2007, 08:18 AM
I hate to say it considering the money that Matsuzaka is making, but the mediots are going to destroy this guy. I feel bad for him.

They hyped him to be the next big thing with untouchable stuff before he even stepped foot on a major league mound.

It's the classic hero pattern. You build some promising player/person up, then once they reach their pinnacle, you just tear them down.

Ozzie Guillen experienced this. He wins a World Series in 2005 and the media sings his praises as this refreshing manager that isn't afraid to speak his mind. The very next year, they nitpick at every word Ozzie says and try to ruin him. I guarantee that half the **** he got in trouble for last year wouldn't even had made print if he did not win the WS a year before.

I'm not looking for debate on Ozzie's managerial skills. IMO, he's only as good as his team is. Right now, he isn't very good. Neither is Joe Torre.

There's another example. The NY media sharks are just going to keep tearing Torre to shreds until he hits rock bottom.

Sadly, Dice-K reached his pinnacle the day he signed that outrageous contract. How can you blame him for it though? If I were in his shoes, I would have jumped at a fat paycheck too. Anyone would.

IIRC, the contract Dic-K signed was not THAT outrageous. However, in combination with the posting fee the BoSox paid to Dice-K's former employer($51 mil) it seems like Matsusaka is making the entire amount. Wasn't the contract for about $9 mil/year? Not even Ted Lilly money.

cbotnyse
05-06-2007, 08:58 AM
For as much hype as they built up about him, yes. They made it sound like he was going to break every record in the book and not allow a run all season, but you're right, in reality he still has a long ways to go before the bust tag is put on himI agree. I was gonna say the same thng, but you already did. :tongue: Except I'm putting the bust tag on him already.

IndianWhiteSox
05-06-2007, 01:17 PM
IIRC, the contract Dic-K signed was not THAT outrageous. However, in combination with the posting fee the BoSox paid to Dice-K's former employer($51 mil) it seems like Matsusaka is making the entire amount. Wasn't the contract for about $9 mil/year? Not even Ted Lilly money.

But for a guy who's pitched as many games as John Danks has, that is outrageous.

IndianWhiteSox
05-06-2007, 01:18 PM
Next 2 months of articles: Josh Beckett new Roger Clemens?

Well since they're both from Texas, it must be true.

California Sox
05-06-2007, 02:04 PM
Maybe worth the money just for getting the media attention off Beckett. :wink:

Seriously, not everyone is going to be able to make a smooth transition from Japan to the big leagues. Clearly he's got some mechanical issues he has to work out from the stretch. Red Cubs know that and are working on them. Scary thing for the rest of the East is, they're winning with the guy who was supposed to be a #1 or #2 getting bombed. If he gets it straightened out, they'll be tough to beat.

Fenway
05-15-2007, 12:37 AM
Pitched a nice game Monday, complete game and 16 ground ball outs against the Kitties

CHISOXFAN13
05-15-2007, 01:29 AM
Pitched a nice game Monday, complete game and 16 ground ball outs against the Kitties

And everyone here greatly appreciated his effort :D:

Fenway
05-15-2007, 01:54 AM
And everyone here greatly appreciated his effort :D:

and may the Sox sweep NYY

Blueprint1
05-15-2007, 02:57 AM
Johan Santana isn't pitching like a Cy Young pitcher yet either.

The mentality of some newspaper people astounds me. They'd rather shock and awe and sell a couple of extra papers, than tell the real story. Or even wait for the story to develop. Is this simply what "journalism" has become???

I guess, it's just the nature of the beast. and it makes me pretty sad. :?:

Very true. I say this is because you have alot of non-sports fans writing sports articles.

Fenway
05-15-2007, 08:41 AM
Boston media loves him again


One day after Baltimore manager Sam Perlozzo had elevated 21st century managing to new heights of illogic by removing a pitcher the Red Sox could not touch after just 91 pitches, the last of which resulted in a mishandled pop fly in front of home plate, Terry Francona brought some common sense and perhaps even some romance back to baseball, sending Matsuzaka back to the mound in the ninth and allowing him to throw 124 pitches en route to his first (as well as the team's first) complete game.

And just why did the skipper decide to do it?

"I didn't see a reason to take him out. He wasn't giving up hits."

We apparently have lucked into a manager who is willing to go by feel every once in a while. What an amazing concept.

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2007/05/15/now_that_is_what_you_call_a_start/

palehozenychicty
05-15-2007, 09:16 AM
Boston media loves him again



http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2007/05/15/now_that_is_what_you_call_a_start/

I guess that they didn't watch the '05 ALCS. :rolleyes: Hell, Contreras completed a game last week.

chaerulez
05-15-2007, 09:29 AM
But for a guy who's pitched as many games as John Danks has, that is outrageous.

$9 million for a guy who dominated the WBC is outrageous? No, it's pretty much fair market value.

Jose Contreras signed a 4 year 32 million deal before he threw a single MLB ball. And while he posted a 3.30 ERA, he was removed from the rotation at times because he didn't pitch well against top teams. When it's all said and done, Dice-K will have a better MLB career than Contreras, he's younger and simply has better talent.

CHISOXFAN13
05-15-2007, 10:56 AM
and may the Sox sweep NYY

I second that motion!

Vestigio
05-15-2007, 12:49 PM
$9 million for a guy who dominated the WBC is outrageous? No, it's pretty much fair market value.


The Sawx also had to pay around $50 million just to talk to Matsuzaka about a contract