PDA

View Full Version : *official* We Still Need Offense!!! 5/2/2007 Post Game Thread


MCHSoxFan
05-02-2007, 05:44 PM
Just as the thread states. WE need MORE OFFENSE. Danks did good. Niiiiccee play by Joe. He dove over the baseline and threw the runner out!!! Let's get some more offense in the next game and continue it YEEEESSSS!!!!

FYI- Tigers won. MIN & CLE play at 6:05.

kevingrt
05-02-2007, 05:45 PM
This team does not look good right now.

peeonwrigley
05-02-2007, 05:45 PM
This **** is hard to watch.

WS in 05
05-02-2007, 05:46 PM
I have always hated Rob Mackowiak......at least BA wouldn't have gounded into a dp he would have flied out

102605
05-02-2007, 05:47 PM
Saying we need offense is an understatement.

sox102
05-02-2007, 05:47 PM
I have always hated Rob Mackowiak......at least BA wouldn't have gounded into a dp he would have flied out

or struck out

DrCrawdad
05-02-2007, 05:47 PM
:angry: UGH! :angry:

jdm2662
05-02-2007, 05:47 PM
I'm so glad I've been away from the TV. The losing isn't nearly as bad as listening to Hawk making up lame excuses.

Harry Potter
05-02-2007, 05:47 PM
At least we can't lose tomorrow :angry:

kevingrt
05-02-2007, 05:47 PM
That May 11 series with KC can't come soon enough.

JB98
05-02-2007, 05:47 PM
I've watched all 25 games this season. It might be time for me to take a little vacation from watching. I don't enjoy watching this team. At all.

jenn2080
05-02-2007, 05:47 PM
Weird...Sox lose again. Seems to be the trend :rolleyes: :angry:

Wake me up when they get up.

RowanDye
05-02-2007, 05:48 PM
Just as the thread states. WE need MORE OFFENSE. Danks did good. Niiiiccee play by Joe. He dove over the baseline and threw the runner out!!! Let's get some more offense in the next game and continue it YEEEESSSS!!!!

FYI- Tigers won. MIN & CLE play at 6:05.

Our whole line-up, other than Dye, is basically one giant hole. We look like the 04-06 Cubs. :o:

nsdjoe
05-02-2007, 05:48 PM
Officially on Strike. Maybe I'll watch Tuesday's game.

Boondock Saint
05-02-2007, 05:48 PM
Watching this team right now is a waste of time. Well, not entirely. Our pitching is getting the job done, but that just makes it more frustrating. These are ALL games we should be winning. Our lineup DOES NOT SUCK, and this shouldn't be happening.

Mickster
05-02-2007, 05:48 PM
or struck out

....pulling out of the batters box while the pitch goes right down the middle.

kidmccarthy
05-02-2007, 05:49 PM
Walker is two losses away from sucking big time for some minor league club.:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:

DickAllen72
05-02-2007, 05:49 PM
No worries, "We still have the best team in baseball." Oh, wait--that was last year's battle cry!

NSSoxFan
05-02-2007, 05:49 PM
I have always hated Rob Mackowiak......at least BA wouldn't have gounded into a dp he would have flied out

Brian Anderson would have hit a HR and flowers would have grown in the shadow of his footsteps as he rounds the bases. He will then go on to find the cure for cancer, AIDS, and the Avian bird flu.

cleanwsox
05-02-2007, 05:49 PM
At least we hit 4 HR's this series!



:crede :uribe: :AJ: :walnuts:dye:

"We love the long ball"

whitesoxfan
05-02-2007, 05:50 PM
This team is a 4th place team as of right now.

There needs to be a ****ing change. Too many bench guys are starting and we have absolutely no ****ing approach when we're at the dish. This is getting maddening day after day watching our offense suck up the joint while our starters continue to have quality start after quality start.

rdwj
05-02-2007, 05:50 PM
I wish our guys would swing for the fences more; that would really help

HotelWhiteSox
05-02-2007, 05:50 PM
The offense makes me :?: These guys have played long enough to know that looking for the longball won't work. Add in that they are getting shut down by pitchers other teams are lighting up...

It's not something where you pinpoint blame on one person, but letting someone go (you know who) sounds pretty good right now, even if only to send a message, that they just screwed one of their own and need to wake their asses up

SoxxoS
05-02-2007, 05:50 PM
Mackoviak needs to play a little less for a while - Im sick of him. Not blaming him, I am just sick of him.

WizardsofOzzie
05-02-2007, 05:51 PM
I've watched all 25 games this season. It might be time for me to take a little vacation from watching. I don't enjoy watching this team. At all.
Yeah, I've been part of that club for the last few days. I haven't watched in the last 3 games and I'm kinda glad I haven't. I just wish our offense could get back on track :(:

Mr.1Dog
05-02-2007, 05:51 PM
The whole shuffling of the line up needs to stop. There has to be some sort of routine that the players need to get into and get comfortable with. This is just unbearable.:angry: :angry:

RowanDye
05-02-2007, 05:53 PM
I wish our guys would swing for the fences more; that would really help

The problem is that when your team average is falling under .200 it gets less and likely that you can string together hits. Does anyone have a team batting average for us, minus Podsednik and Thome? It has to be microscopic.

CLR01
05-02-2007, 05:53 PM
I wish our guys would swing for the fences more; that would really help

Maybe if Ozzie started preaching that they would start going the other way and get back to smartball.

Boondock Saint
05-02-2007, 05:53 PM
The whole shuffling of the line up needs to stop. There has to be some sort of routine that the players need to get into and get comfortable with. This is just unbearable.:angry: :angry:

The thing that sucks is that we really CAN'T right now. With Thome and Pods out, we've got a whole slew of "plug-in" guys that have to either start or give a regular a day off. It's almost impossible to get some consistency. Now, with that said, Ozzie has been going crazy with his lineups the last week.

JB98
05-02-2007, 05:54 PM
Yeah, I've been part of that club for the last few days. I haven't watched in the last 3 games and I'm kinda glad I haven't. I just wish our offense could get back on track :(:

I'd feel like a fair-weather fan if I stopped watching, but the reality is, every day I tune in or go to the park optimistic that that day's game is the one where we're going to break out. And everyday, these hitters take a dump in my cereal with their horse**** approach and waste another beautiful effort by one of our pitchers. It's old. I'm tired of the Sox hitters putting me in a bad mood each and every day.

WhiteSox5187
05-02-2007, 05:55 PM
...but this team makes me sick. I mean offensively we can't do a damned thing and it sickens me. We can't move runners over, christ, we can't even get guys on much less move them over! We hit a lot of homeruns but it seems like all of them are friggin' solo shots. We spent all of last year waiting for this team to "hit its stride" and they never did. So maybe that is why I'm so upset about this year. But it's becoming ridiculous. If we don't start hitting soon, we could be in pretty big trouble.

Chicken Dinner
05-02-2007, 05:55 PM
Well, with the day off tommorrow, maybe it's time for a LA slumpbuster mission tonight.
:cool:

southsideirish71
05-02-2007, 05:57 PM
Well, with the day off tommorrow, maybe it's time for a LA slumpbuster mission tonight.
:cool:

We face Escobar, Lackey and Colon. They must be getting excited just thinking about facing our hitters.

102605
05-02-2007, 05:58 PM
We face Escobar, Lackey and Colon. They must be getting excited just thinking about facing our hitters.

Has there ever been 3 consecutive no-hitters thrown?

JB98
05-02-2007, 05:59 PM
We face Escobar, Lackey and Colon. They must be getting excited just thinking about facing our hitters.

It isn't going to be easy breaking out of a slump against that group, or the starters we'll face in Minnesota.

jdm2662
05-02-2007, 05:59 PM
We face Escobar, Lackey and Colon. They must be getting excited just thinking about facing our hitters.

Hell, I know I'd be if I was a pitcher. I'll be sure to throw lots of off speed stuff and slow curves out of the zone.

balz1472
05-02-2007, 06:00 PM
Maybe it is just me, but in the time that I played baseball I was taught that when you are down late in a game you are supposed to take pitches. Well, once again Mack-o-wack decides to swing on the first pitch. Result: Game ending double-play. To top it off, how did that guy before him get on base??? A WALK!!! What does that mean? The pitcher is not throwing strikes. This is hitting 101! What does it take to get that through these guys' heads?


:angry:

It's Dankerific
05-02-2007, 06:00 PM
Is there a way to get Rob more at bats? maybe have him leadoff?

CLR01
05-02-2007, 06:00 PM
The problem is that when your team average is falling under .200 it gets less and likely that you can string together hits. Does anyone have a team batting average for us, minus Podsednik and Thome? It has to be microscopic.


.211 without Thome, Pods or Anderson's numbers.

JB98
05-02-2007, 06:02 PM
Maybe it is just me, but in the time that I played baseball I was taught that when you are down late in a game you are supposed to take pitches. Well, once again Mack-o-wack decides to swing on the first pitch. Result: Game ending double-play. To top it off, how did that guy before him get on base??? A WALK!!! What does that mean? The pitcher is not throwing strikes. This is hitting 101! What does it take to get that through these guys' heads?


:angry:

There's no real benefit to taking first-pitch strike and falling behind in the count 0-1. After the walk, Mack knew he'd get a first-pitch fastball. He got a good one to hit, and he hit it hard. The result was just really, really bad: Right to the second baseman for an easy DP.

balz1472
05-02-2007, 06:03 PM
I think they are at the point where they look like they are sleep-walking through the games. It is flat out sickening to watch. We are playing another team who is NOT GOOD... yet they seem to have a will to beat us. Our team walks out there like "well, we hit x HRs and drove in y guys last year so you guys better watch out". What do we do? Get shut down. AGAIN.

It may be early, but it only going to get worse playing LAA / MIN in the next two series. We may not be the worst offense in baseball, but I really didn't think that we would be compared to the Washington Nationals for anything this season!

Tragg
05-02-2007, 06:04 PM
Once again, all runs scored via power. Hack at everything grinders shut out.

WhiteSox5187
05-02-2007, 06:04 PM
Maybe it is just me, but in the time that I played baseball I was taught that when you are down late in a game you are supposed to take pitches. Well, once again Mack-o-wack decides to swing on the first pitch. Result: Game ending double-play. To top it off, how did that guy before him get on base??? A WALK!!! What does that mean? The pitcher is not throwing strikes. This is hitting 101! What does it take to get that through these guys' heads?


:angry:
I totally agree with you. I mean the guy was falling behind just about every hitter, you have to take a couple of pitches there. Make him sweat. But if you're facing a guy like Marino who is getting ahead of everybody I understand swinging at the first pitch, but off Putz? No. As soon as Mack came up I said "Oh, now I get to see the game ending double play." Bad baseball. The White Sox are excelling in bad baseball right now.

JB98
05-02-2007, 06:04 PM
.211 without Thome, Pods or Anderson's numbers.

At least we have no scapegoats. Everyone is accountable. Everyone deserves criticism.

Chicken Dinner
05-02-2007, 06:06 PM
Well maybe Ozzie needs to care a little more about winning games in spring training. We were dead last in the Cactus league.

BeviBall!
05-02-2007, 06:06 PM
I've watched all 25 games this season. It might be time for me to take a little vacation from watching. I don't enjoy watching this team. At all.

There is no team chemistry at all and injuries are a bitch. I have a very 2002 feeling of malaise here.

sox230
05-02-2007, 06:07 PM
Watching this team right now is a waste of time. Well, not entirely. Our pitching is getting the job done, but that just makes it more frustrating. These are ALL games we should be winning. Our lineup DOES NOT SUCK, and this shouldn't be happening.

Our lineup DOES suck, because you have atleast 3 guys in the lineup every day that are bench players in the majors thanks to the two injruies and Ozzie doing his stupid substitutions.....I am also sick of Mack...he has no speed, OK defense at best, and right now sucks at the plate......with our DH being avaliable....why dont we use pablo at DH, put erstad two, and move gooch back down in the order because our bottom of the order right now sucks, but hey, that idea is too complicated for Ozzie.

southsideirish71
05-02-2007, 06:07 PM
Hell, I know I'd be if I was a pitcher. I'll be sure to throw lots of off speed stuff and slow curves out of the zone.

The formula for beating this team was set by Cy Joe Mays. He featured a decent fastball and a decent curveball. He discovered that if you spot that fastball low and away, and threw a curve in the dirt you could defeat the mighty Whitesox. Then it seemed that in 05 and in 06 you saw medicore pitchers use this as a method to defeat the sox. Now it seems that everyone is doing it. Low and away, and let the flailing bats do all the work. They will get themselves out trying to lift and pull that low and away pitch. Sure one or 2 of them will be hit out. However it is hard as hell to lift and pull and drive the outside and low pitch. Until this team realizes this, and starts to shorten their swings and go back up the middle and to right. They will be dominated by crappy pitchers with > 7 ERAs.

soxfanatlanta
05-02-2007, 06:08 PM
The song remains the same.

ugh

UserNameBlank
05-02-2007, 06:09 PM
I'd feel like a fair-weather fan if I stopped watching, but the reality is, every day I tune in or go to the park optimistic that that day's game is the one where we're going to break out. And everyday, these hitters take a dump in my cereal with their horse**** approach and waste another beautiful effort by one of our pitchers. It's old. I'm tired of the Sox hitters putting me in a bad mood each and every day.
Imagine how Kenny must feel right now.

Something needs to be done. It's debatable whether firing Walker and replacing him with someone else would make a difference, but this is getting ridiculous. Somebody's job should be at stake right now. Nobody is getting on base for the home runs, none of these guys are putting consecutive hits together, something has to change.

All these free swingers are killing the Sox. How can you expect to put pressure on an opposing pitcher when nobody is getting on base?

WhiteSox5187
05-02-2007, 06:09 PM
Well maybe Ozzie needs to care a little more about winning games in spring training. We were dead last in the Cactus league.
ST has nothing to do with this, someone mentioned malasie (forgive my spelling) and that just about hits the nail on the head. They look DEAD. This could be a very very long season.

JB98
05-02-2007, 06:10 PM
Once again, all runs scored via power. Hack at everything grinders shut out.

"Hack at everything" is the key phrase. It's real easy to say guys are swinging for the fences on every AB. To some extent, that's true. But a bigger problem is swinging at pitcher's pitches and making weak outs. Guys are getting themselves out by hacking at pitches out of the zone, or by hacking at pitches that are on the black early in the count. No one is working themselves into hitters' counts. Last night, from about the fourth inning on, Washburn could have thrown his shoe up there, and we would have swung at it.

The Immigrant
05-02-2007, 06:10 PM
37 innings since we last scored a run other than via longball. Back to the grind!

Tragg
05-02-2007, 06:10 PM
And small things like batting non-obp hitters like AJ 3rd don't help matters. A run here and there is all it takes.
But the roster's pretty thin on hitters, so there's not much he can do. Too many bad hitters on this team.

BeviBall!
05-02-2007, 06:11 PM
I'd feel like a fair-weather fan if I stopped watching, but the reality is, every day I tune in or go to the park optimistic that that day's game is the one where we're going to break out.

Everyone needs a break. Would you rather enjoy a sunny day or sit inside and watch a team rotting from the inside? I always dabble in April/early May ball because of this reason. We'll see where this really stands at the end of this month when some people get healthy, or sent down, whichever comes first.

Jerko
05-02-2007, 06:11 PM
As sick as this team is making me I still watch. If I didn't watch I'd just be wondering what they were doing anyway. I don't know what the solution is. Ozzie sits 3 guys a game when we're healthy, and frankly, if I never see Cintron or Mack again I won't be upset.

WhiteSox5187
05-02-2007, 06:16 PM
Everyone needs a break. Would you rather enjoy a sunny day or sit inside and watch a team rotting from the inside? I always dabble in April/early May ball because of this reason. We'll see where this really stands at the end of this month when some people get healthy, or sent down, whichever comes first.
I agree it's early and a hell of a lot can change and we might tear it up in May (God I hope so!), but this team hasn't shown me at least, a whole lot. I just don't see any signs of life from this team at all. Somebody needs to light a fire under them. Hopefully it happens in LA.

AJ Hellraiser
05-02-2007, 06:22 PM
This **** is hard to watch.

I can't agree more... I used to base my schedule around Sox games, trying to catch every inning i could.. I can't even watch right now... I stil love this team to death and am a big fan of all these guys.. but right now, they aren't playing baseball.. I'm not sure exactly what they're doing... it's not fun to watch and the entertainment value is about the same as watching old Saved By the Bell reruns, with Kelly Kapowski being the slight advantage:D:

Corlose 15
05-02-2007, 06:23 PM
I'm glad I wasn't around to watch this one.


IMO, a team has to give you a reason to watch them and this team is providing none.

PATHETIC.

UserNameBlank
05-02-2007, 06:23 PM
Career OBP for current Sox players:

Konerko .352
Iguchi .349
Erstad .340
Dye .339
Mackowiak .331
Pierzynski .330
Ozuna .325
Cintron .316
Terrero .311
Crede .307
Uribe .297
Sweeney .237 (albeit very small sample size)
Molina .000 (again small sample size)

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:nPusdPX2IjjkQM:http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2006/11/20/pMryJtmh.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://mlb.mlb.com/images/2006/11/20/pMryJtmh.jpg&imgrefurl=http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp%3Fymd%3D20061205%26content_id%3D175101 3%26vkey%3Dnews_cws%26fext%3D.jsp%26c_id%3Dcws&h=235&w=275&sz=16&hl=en&start=17&tbnid=nPusdPX2IjjkQM:&tbnh=97&tbnw=114&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhawk%2Bharrelson%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D 10%26hl%3Den)
"That's not gonna work, Fiesty."

FedEx227
05-02-2007, 06:24 PM
Wow this game was just sad. Outside of Danks nobody looked interested to be out there. In my mind we've run out of excuses. The cold weather excuse is done, the Thome is out injury shouldn't effect us this much. I can't believe how awful this hitting as been.

ShoelessJoeS
05-02-2007, 06:24 PM
37 innings since we last scored a run other than via longball. Back to the grind!What a terrible ****ing approach.

WhiteSox5187
05-02-2007, 06:26 PM
Wow this game was just sad. Outside of Danks nobody looked interested to be out there. In my mind we've run out of excuses. The cold weather excuse is done, the Thome is out injury shouldn't effect us this much. I can't believe how awful this hitting as been.
THe only excuse left is that we suck. Plain and simple, but I still can't understand how we can be hitting this bad. I was worried about the pitching going into the year, not the god damned offense!

JB98
05-02-2007, 06:32 PM
THe only excuse left is that we suck. Plain and simple, but I still can't understand how we can be hitting this bad. I was worried about the pitching going into the year, not the god damned offense!

We sucked offensively in September of 2006 as well. It seems like the book is out on our hitters. Adjustments are in order.

cbotnyse
05-02-2007, 06:37 PM
37 innings since we last scored a run other than via longball. Back to the grind!that is a sickening stat.

JB98
05-02-2007, 06:39 PM
that is a sickening stat.

Worse yet, only six runs in the last four games, period. In American League baseball, that's anemic.

Vernam
05-02-2007, 06:40 PM
We clearly are not hitting enough solo homers. I blame this on the guys who are clogging the basepaths (admittedly, not often) and forcing our power hitters to wait until the bases are empty before going yard. If Paulie and JD, for example, could count on not being distracted by baserunners, they might start hitting more 1-run homers. It's only a matter of time until the bases remain totally empty, and then just watch out -- the sky's the limit! :nuts:

Vernam

UserNameBlank
05-02-2007, 06:41 PM
We sucked offensively in September of 2006 as well. It seems like the book is out on our hitters. Adjustments are in order.
Did you see the post I made on the last page? We have 3 guys in our active roster with a career OBP of .340 or higher, and one of them is Erstad.

Adjustments be damned. Acquire a meaningful player and get all these grinders out of the everyday lineup.

FedEx227
05-02-2007, 06:42 PM
Did you see the post I made on the last page? We have 3 guys in our active roster with a career OBP of .340 or higher, and one of them is Erstad.

Adjustments be damned. Acquire a meaningful player and get all these grinders out of the everyday lineup.

Truth be told. We don't have a whole lot of talent outside of Dye, Konerko, Crede, Thome and AJ.

veeter
05-02-2007, 06:47 PM
I hate these stretches that occur in every season. No matter what, when a team doesn't hit, it looks terrible. They will snap out of it. These guys and Ozzie are champions. With the unbalanced schedule they'll have many, many, many chances throughout the season, to come back. And they will.

Patrick134
05-02-2007, 06:47 PM
Truth be told. We don't have a whole lot of talent outside of Dye, Konerko, Crede, Thome and AJ.


Iguchi is solid. Nothing near a superstar, but solid. I like the 5 guys you listed, but the last thing we need right now is more hitters in the lineup like them.

Tragg
05-02-2007, 06:48 PM
"Hack at everything" is the key phrase. It's real easy to say guys are swinging for the fences on every AB. To some extent, that's true. But a bigger problem is swinging at pitcher's pitches and making weak outs. Guys are getting themselves out by hacking at pitches out of the zone, or by hacking at pitches that are on the black early in the count. No one is working themselves into hitters' counts. Last night, from about the fourth inning on, Washburn could have thrown his shoe up there, and we would have swung at it.I agree, but that's what these "ozzie style" hitters do - they dont' take pitches, they swing, they don't strike out much, but they make a ton of outs. Patient hitters either don't swing at or foul off pitches that are in the strike zone but which they can't hit...and frankly, other than Dye, Konerko, Iguchi and Crede, we've got some grade C and below hitters on this lineup (now Uribe and AJ are better than that when compared to the others at their position...but in terms of raw hitting skill compared with everyone, they are just okay).
Pods has at least some plate patience -but he's alone among the hackers.
And hackers is exactly what Ozzie was as a hitter, it's what he wants in hitters on this team and what he has. And it isn't working and probably won't work.

UserNameBlank
05-02-2007, 06:49 PM
Truth be told. We don't have a whole lot of talent outside of Dye, Konerko, Crede, Thome and AJ.
In an inning where our 7-9 hitters are up, if you close your eyes and cover your ears for 15 seconds after the leadoff hitter steps in the box, by the time you look up at the screen you'll see a commercial break.

KyWhiSoxFan
05-02-2007, 06:50 PM
I think it's time to seriously look at the hitting coach or advance scouts. When players can't make adjustments at the plate to how they're being pitched and the Sox make everyone look like a Cy Young winner, the hitters are not being prepared properly. The teams needs to be shaken up, and you can't fire all the players, so Walker needs to be canned.

JB98
05-02-2007, 06:50 PM
Did you see the post I made on the last page? We have 3 guys in our active roster with a career OBP of .340 or higher, and one of them is Erstad.

Adjustments be damned. Acquire a meaningful player and get all these grinders out of the everyday lineup.

Sorry, I don't believe in Beane's philosophy. We're not going to "acquire a meaningful player" without giving up pitching. From where I'm sitting, we don't have the pitching to deal. KW spent the whole winter trying to add pitching because we were so thin in that area. Get the grinders out of the lineup? Like who? Crede? Konerko? Dye? Iguchi? AJ? Those are the guys who have been KILLING us. KILLING US. They are the ones who are expected to produce the runs. They've done it before. They just aren't doing it right now, for whatever reason.

UserNameBlank
05-02-2007, 06:52 PM
Iguchi is solid. Nothing near a superstar, but solid. I like the 5 guys you listed, but the last thing we need right now is more hitters in the lineup like them.
????

Yeah, this team could sure do without another player who gets on base and hits home runs. We're not grinding enough!!!

FedEx227
05-02-2007, 06:52 PM
In an inning where our 7-9 hitters are up, if you close your eyes and cover your ears for 15 seconds after the leadoff hitter steps in the box, by the time you look up at the screen you'll see a commercial break.

We just don't have guys that can get on base.

I know people always get pissy when you mention OBP because your being a FOBB or a propellerhead, but we've seen what happens when you fill a team with middle of the road OBPs, solo home runs and guys that if they aren't hitting well can't get on base.

We have nobody on this team that can draw a walk and get on base unless they are feeling it offensively. It's a team of highs and lows and I guess we'll have to get use to it, but personally I preferred 2005 a bit better.

JB98
05-02-2007, 06:54 PM
I agree, but that's what these "ozzie style" hitters do - they dont' take pitches, they swing, they don't strike out much, but they make a ton of outs. Patient hitters either don't swing at or foul off pitches that are in the strike zone but which they can't hit...and frankly, other than Dye, Konerko, Iguchi and Crede, we've got some grade C and below hitters on this lineup (now Uribe and AJ are better than that when compared to the others at their position...but in terms of raw hitting skill compared with everyone, they are just okay).
Pods has at least some plate patience -but he's alone among the hackers.
And hackers is exactly what Ozzie was as a hitter, it's what he wants in hitters on this team and what he has. And it isn't working and probably won't work.

But I've seen this lineup show patience before. It doesn't necessarily show in the walk totals or the OBP. How many times have you seen Dye or Crede go deep in the count, foul off some tough pitches and then put the ball in play hard? MANY, MANY TIMES in the last couple years. That element is noticeably absent right now.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-02-2007, 07:04 PM
I caught a bit of Schuster's Sox post-game show on sportsblab radio. Sheesh... the callers over there make the lunatics posting in the WSI post-game threads by comparison sound like brain surgeons!

:o:

UserNameBlank
05-02-2007, 07:04 PM
Sorry, I don't believe in Beane's philosophy. We're not going to "acquire a meaningful player" without giving up pitching. From where I'm sitting, we don't have the pitching to deal. KW spent the whole winter trying to add pitching because we were so thin in that area. Get the grinders out of the lineup? Like who? Crede? Konerko? Dye? Iguchi? AJ? Those are the guys who have been KILLING us. KILLING US. They are the ones who are expected to produce the runs. They've done it before. They just aren't doing it right now, for whatever reason.
The only thing wrong with Beane's philosophy and the propellorheads is the complete disregard for other important aspects of the game, particularly the fundamentals.

Getting on base and scoring lots of runs off homers is a very large part of the game. We've been hitting the homers too. You put a couple guys on in front of some of these home runs and our record improves by at least 3 or 4 games, maybe more.

I don't want to deal any of our good young pitching, which includes Danks and Gio and maybe 2 or 3 others including Russell and maybe Day, but the rest of these guys can go. Broadway, McCullogh, Haeger, Phillips, any of these future #4/#5 type guys. We don't need Adam Dunn, but there has to be someone out there better than what we have who can be acquired for what we'd be willing to give up.

chidonez
05-02-2007, 07:15 PM
Well, at least it was nice to see a lot of Sox fans at the game today, and a little strange to see Hawk & DJ up in the booth in my old home town. Since the game was moved up, a lot of Seattle fans didn't show up to the game.

We didn't get enough base runners or walks in this series. It was painful listening to the M's fans praise their pitchers, as if those outings weren't anything but mediocre.

But I was thoroughly impressed with Javi and Dank's outings. Mac looked good today. If we can keep pitching like that at the bottom of the rotation, we might just be able to pull out of this slump.

Did anyone notice how much Tada has been fouling pop-ups off to the right? It's like he's got one little hitch left to work out, but it's just not there yet.

balke
05-02-2007, 07:15 PM
They need Pods, or a Pods type. Pods was getting on base, and getting to second base. I don't remember the last time someone touched second (without a solo shot). Get someone on second in front of Iguchi or Erstad, and the Sox start manufacturing runs, and eventually stringing together hits.

There's a need for speed.

BRDSR
05-02-2007, 07:17 PM
The problem is that when your team average is falling under .200 it gets less and likely that you can string together hits. Does anyone have a team batting average for us, minus Podsednik and Thome? It has to be microscopic.

This might be kind a chicken and the egg type of thing, but I think you've got it backwards. Our batting average is low because we keep swinging for the fences.

First three innings out in Anaheim Ozzie should make all 9 guys lay down bunts. Any guy who takes a swing gets the sit the rest of that game and the next. Probably wont' result in a single hit, but it might be the type of kick 'em in the ass embarass 'em type of thing that they need. Might get 'em thinking, I dunno. If it's hard for us to watch this type of baseball, imagine how Ozzie feels.

BTW, if this continues much longer, somebody is going to have to take the fall. Greg Walker needs to realize that his head is going to be on the chopping block in two or three weeks if this continues.

FedEx227
05-02-2007, 07:18 PM
They need Pods, or a Pods type. Pods was getting on base, and getting to second base. I don't remember the last time someone touched second (without a solo shot). Get someone on second in front of Iguchi or Erstad, and the Sox start manufacturing runs, and eventually stringing together hits.

There's a need for speed.

What I would've give to have a 5-toolish type player. Speed, hit for average and also hit for power. I know a lot of people have been really against it, but we need to talk to the D-Rays and get something worked out. They have expendable OFers that fit the mold we need. Unfortunately they will demand pitching, but you gotta give some to get some.

FedEx227
05-02-2007, 07:19 PM
If it's hard for us to watch this type of baseball, imagine how Ozzie feels.


He's the one obsessed with the L-R matchups that are putting guys very much out of place. AJ doesn't have the tools or the numbers to be a no.3 hitter, plain and simple.

UserNameBlank
05-02-2007, 07:20 PM
But I've seen this lineup show patience before. It doesn't necessarily show in the walk totals or the OBP. How many times have you seen Dye or Crede go deep in the count, foul off some tough pitches and then put the ball in play hard? MANY, MANY TIMES in the last couple years. That element is noticeably absent right now.
That is a very good point.

But, I think the "grinders" in the lineup are hurting the middle of the order and they may be the cause of some of this. When you have a lineup full of guys who see a few pitches, can get on, foul off tough pitches, and put the pitcher in danger you make the guy on the mound work for his outs. That raises pitch counts, changes the mindset of the guy on the mound, and keeps the pitcher from getting into any kind of rhythm.

With the group we have now, there are 2 or maybe 3 hitters each night that an opposing pitcher will have to really look out for. Everyone else is a much easier out. When we have guys swinging away and making outs on one or two pitches, we allow whoever is on the mound to work himself into a rhythm and find his zone. Then, our dangerous hitters come up to the plate with no one on base, usually at least one out, and no particular job to do other than hit the ball as hard as possible. And, our hitters have to do it on good pitches because since there is no one on base and the guy on the mound is in a rhythm he isn't in any danger.

FedEx227
05-02-2007, 07:31 PM
Just for comparison purposes, I've listed the regulars of the Sox and the Indians and their P/PA, just so you can see how far we are lagging behind.

Pitches Per Plate Appearance

White Sox

Sweeney 4.3
Cintron 4.2
Podsednik 4.1

Iguchi 4.1
Thome 4.1
Dye 4.0
Erstad 3.9
Konerko 3.9
Crede 3.8
Mackowiak 3.5
Pierzynski 3.5
Uribe 3.4
Ozuna 3.3

Average: 3.6

Cleveland Indians

Blake 4.5
Sizemore 4.5
Garko 4.5
Peralta 4.3
Michaels 4.1
Hafner 4.0
Martinez 3.9
Dellucci 3.8
Nixon 3.7
Barfield 3.6
Marte 3.5

Average: 4.03

They are seeing .43 more pitches per at-bat. If you put that out to 27 outs (say if they just sat up there the entire time and didn't swing) they would be seeing 11-12 more pitches during the entire game. That is a huge number when you factor in getting hits, etc. We are allowing their pitches to go deeper into games, and get in a comfort zone.

Luckily Sox and the Indians have the same number of at-bats this season 784. So using these numbers (they are crude because some guys aren't exactly regulars, etc), but theoretically we have seen 2822 pitches to their 3159 or 337 less pitches so far this year.

UserNameBlank
05-02-2007, 07:40 PM
Just for comparison purposes, I've listed the regulars of the Sox and the Indians and their P/PA, just so you can see how far we are lagging behind.
Nice post! You could have turned that into a positive though by saying the Sox are out-grinding the Indians by .43 pitches per AB.

BTW, where did you find those stats?

FedEx227
05-02-2007, 07:42 PM
Nice post! You could have turned that into a positive though by saying the Sox are out-grinding the Indians by .43 pitches per AB.

BTW, where did you find those stats?

The Hardball Times, if you go to Stats > American League > THT Batting they'll have all of their stuff. Including Clutch which is a pretty sweet stat in that it takes Bill James' Runs Created stat but accounts for BA with RISP which we HAVE to be doing awful in.

Jurr
05-02-2007, 07:46 PM
Boy, I'm glad I missed this one. I bet the game, for those who watched it, was yet another version of "it feels like my head's being held under water and there's nothing I can do about it."

2 runs. Yikes. Meanwhile, the other ALC teams are just having a good ole' time beating THE TEAMS THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BEAT.

This team needs an enema.

UserNameBlank
05-02-2007, 07:47 PM
The Hardball Times, if you go to Stats > American League > THT Batting they'll have all of their stuff.
Sweet! I wonder how many other areas there are that we suck in?

Malgar 12
05-02-2007, 07:54 PM
I'm so glad I've been away from the TV. The losing isn't nearly as bad as listening to Hawk making up lame excuses.

He's good at that.

FedEx227
05-02-2007, 07:58 PM
Sweet! I wonder how many other areas there are that we suck in?

Clutch
"Clutch" is the name we've given to the portion of Bill James's Runs Created formula that includes the impact of a batter's batting average with runners in scoring position and the number of home runs with runners on. The specific formula is Hits with RISP minus overall BA times at bats with RISP, plus HR with runners on minus (all HR/AB) times at bats with runners on. This stat is not a definitive description of "clutch hitting," just one way of looking at it. Konerko 2.2
Erstad 2.1
Crede 2.0
Thome 0.1
Cintron -0.3
Uribe -0.3
Mackowiak -0.4
Anderson -0.4
Dye -0.4
Pierzynski -1.6

Indians again just for the hell of it

Peralta 5.2
Martinez 4.3
Marte 1.4
Barfield 0.9
Sizemore -0.4
Garko -0.8
Nixon -1.7
Hafner -2.1
Blake -5.1

That isn't as telling as the other numbers, but it is pretty remarkable that our highest is 2, while theres is 5. It could also be said that they've had MANY more opportunities for them to hit with men on base over us.

Jurr
05-02-2007, 08:00 PM
Man, I just watched the condensed game. Great stuff!:(:

It baffles me that such a strong lineup can go an entire month hovering within sniffing distance of the Mendoza line. Crazy.

UserNameBlank
05-02-2007, 08:04 PM
BA with RISP:
Thome .444
Crede .304
Erstad .300
Konerko .261
Everyone else .235 or below

We're 11th in the AL in OBP, 23rd in baseball (.313)
We're 14 (dead last) in the AL in BA, 30th in baseball (dead last) (.222)
And we're fifth in the AL in ERA (4.04)

Edit:
We're also 14th in the AL (dead last) in BA with RISP, 28th in baseball (.220)

FedEx227
05-02-2007, 08:04 PM
Man, I just watched the condensed game. Great stuff!:(:

It baffles me that such a strong lineup can go an entire month hovering within sniffing distance of the Mendoza line. Crazy.

Damn that condensed game probably lasted you 2 minutes tops?

MarySwiss
05-02-2007, 08:06 PM
Didn't read this whole thread (and I don't think I will), so forgive me if someone already made this point.

During the team's off day tomorrow, I am sincerely hoping that Ozzie--or Kenny--or SOMEBODY--gives this team a good swift kick in the ass. They sorely need it! :angry:

Navarro's Talent
05-02-2007, 08:21 PM
This was a rough game to watch. I come back from a vacation thinking they'll have heat the bats up by now. Well, that hasn't exactly happen.

UserNameBlank
05-02-2007, 08:22 PM
Also worth noting about our sucktitude is that we have by far the smallest negative run differential in baseball at -5. A couple more runs per game and this team has the best record in baseball. Translation: a few less grinders and this team has the best record in baseball.

Edit: another interesting stat is Milwuakee has the lowest batting average with RISP in baseball. Kind of odd with their record and with as many runs they have scored. They must be getting an ***load of baserunners to survive with a BA/RISP that pathetic.

cws05champ
05-02-2007, 08:38 PM
1) Only one word to describe this offensive performce lately: PATHETIC

2) Stop with the Ginder BS, I'm tired of it....no one is grinding anything right now. Uribe on 1st w/ 0 out in the 3rd(tie game)...what does Erstad do, lay down a Bunt to move the runner? Hit and Run? NO, easy fly ball to CF. They are not doing any "smart ball" when they do get guys on base.

3) We need to fire Walker
4) If a trade is needed what about a guy like Reggie Sanders who won't cost that much in talent to get? He is not a full time OF but a guy who hits for a decent avg and some power.

chisoxfanatic
05-02-2007, 08:40 PM
I guess we can officially reinstate the term Corpseball, because this is the true definition to the infinite power! This is beyond frustrating to watch, especially now that we know what it's like to have a World Series champion here.

The guys are all pressing, and it's back to bash ball circa 2002-2004. This just doesn't seem right that Danks has had such bad misfortunes. This HAS to end at some point...but WHEN?!

NSSoxFan
05-02-2007, 08:50 PM
I guess we can officially reinstate the term Corpseball, because this is the true definition to the infinite power!

This is true. In the past the term Corpseball was misused and misunderstood around here. What we are watching in the past couple of weeks is Corpseball in all its glory.

UserNameBlank
05-02-2007, 08:59 PM
1) Only one word to describe this offensive performce lately: PATHETIC

2) Stop with the Ginder BS, I'm tired of it....no one is grinding anything right now. Uribe on 1st w/ 0 out in the 3rd(tie game)...what does Erstad do, lay down a Bunt to move the runner? Hit and Run? NO, easy fly ball to CF. They are not doing any "smart ball" when they do get guys on base.

3) We need to fire Walker
4) If a trade is needed what about a guy like Reggie Sanders who won't cost that much in talent to get? He is not a full time OF but a guy who hits for a decent avg and some power.
I don't think this team needs to give up any more outs, especially in the 3rd. If there is a runner on second with no out then I'd bunt, but not with him on first. Especially with Erstad, who has been one of our best hitters of late. He is the one who should be swinging.

I'd love Reggie Sanders though. He can't cost really anything either. Send Oneli Perez to the Royals and make him the DH. I can't see Reggie costing any more than that.

MisterB
05-02-2007, 09:07 PM
This team needs an enema.

Not a good idea. Our entire lineup could drown.

:angry:

HawkDJ
05-02-2007, 09:16 PM
Anyone want to update the Corpseball graphic?

chisoxfanatic
05-02-2007, 09:36 PM
This team needs an enema.

An enema only cleans out the first 8-12 inches. Not effective enough! If anything, this team needs colonic irrigation! The entire team's not hitting!

FarWestChicago
05-02-2007, 09:50 PM
I guess we can officially reinstate the term Corpseball, because this is the true definition to the infinite power!

This is true. In the past the term Corpseball was misused and misunderstood around here. What we are watching in the past couple of weeks is Corpseball in all its glory.
I don't think this is Corpseball. That term was used for hard hitting Sox teams that would take the night off. This team hasn't been able to hit all season. This seems more like a collective reverse career year. Hopefully, that will change.

chisoxfanatic
05-02-2007, 09:53 PM
I don't think this is Corpseball. That term was used for hard hitting Sox teams that would take the night off. This team hasn't been able to hit all season. This seems more like a collective reverse career year. Hopefully, that will change.

Seems kinda weird considering a few of these guys are in contract years!

Grzegorz
05-02-2007, 09:55 PM
That May 11 series with KC can't come soon enough.

Be careful what you wish for...

IceczMan
05-02-2007, 10:05 PM
This lack of hitting is actually making me look forward to my law school finals, thanks white sox!

Jurr
05-02-2007, 10:05 PM
Be careful what you wish for...
Yeah, no kidding. It's funny how the Sox finally get back to making good contact, coming back from deficits, and winning games just to revert in a week.
The attitude regarding the team goes from "bring on all comers" to "we may not be able to beat KC."
It's amazing what a few days can do to a team's psyche.

JB98
05-02-2007, 10:06 PM
Seems kinda weird considering a few of these guys are in contract years!

I wonder if Dye and Iguchi are pull-happy because they are trying to put up more HRs for a contract drive. I doubt it, but I'm willing to entertain any possibility at this point.I can't believe we've sunk so low that people are suggesting we acquire Reggie Sanders. If the hitters we have now were producing even close to their career levels, we'd be about 17-8 right now. Of course, if the queen had balls, she'd be king.

oeo
05-02-2007, 10:07 PM
I wonder if Dye and Iguchi are pull-happy because they are trying to put up more HRs for a contract drive. I doubt it, but I'm willing to entertain any possibility at this point.I can't believe we've sunk so low that people are suggesting we acquire Reggie Sanders. If the hitters we have now were producing even close to their career levels, we'd be about 17-8 right now. Of course, if the queen had balls, she'd be king.

Iguchi is 'pull-happy'? I saw him trying to take it to right field all day today.

JB98
05-02-2007, 10:12 PM
Iguchi is 'pull-happy'? I saw him trying to take it to right field all day today.

He's trying to go to right field when Erstad is on, but with nobody on, he's trying to pull.

chisoxfanatic
05-02-2007, 10:23 PM
I wonder if Dye and Iguchi are pull-happy because they are trying to put up more HRs for a contract drive. I doubt it, but I'm willing to entertain any possibility at this point.I can't believe we've sunk so low that people are suggesting we acquire Reggie Sanders. If the hitters we have now were producing even close to their career levels, we'd be about 17-8 right now. Of course, if the queen had balls, she'd be king.

Perhaps the Sox took a page from the Blackhawks??? :cool:

Here we have Podsednik out for a while. He's our speedster, like Martin Havlat, who was out for a long portion of the year.

We have Iguchi and Dye who seem slap-happy right now. Iguchi should be setting up plays (like Rene Borque), while Dye should be able to benefit from nice set-ups with good finishes (like Jeff Hamilton).

And, then, you've got the veteran offensive leadership in Jim Thome, who has been ailing, much like Peter Bondra did this year.

And Joe Crede and Juan Uribe are both pressing right now, you might as well call them Radim Vrbata and Denis Arkhipov.

Then, you have Konerko and Pierzynski, two guys who have no business near the Mendoza Line. I guess they should inherit the names Tony Salmelainen and Adrian Aucoin for playing MUCH lower than expectations.

I guess that leaves us with Darin Erstad; the tallest midget in the bunch. For actually playing better than most, I'll give him the Tuomo Ruutu Award.

Isn't it a damn shame that Brian Anderson sucked worse than Jassen Cullimore? It's a worse shame that I can't think of anyone who would deserve to be compared to Patrick Sharp.

Jurr
05-02-2007, 10:25 PM
This whole offense is pull happy. The moment they read a possible fastball, they fly open and try to yank the pitch to the pull field. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see it.

Pitchers are featuring offspeed to the Sox all day, and they know that they'll get our hitters out in front of everything. Listening to the Tigers broadcast during the last series vs. Det, they were saying that the pitchers were going to be featuring a lot of changeups. The secret's out. If you watch any footage of Santana vs. the Sox, it becomes academic. Feature offspeed stuff and they're dead.

It's no coincidence that the Sox hit pitchers like Verlander well. They LOVE fastballs almost to a fault. They'll sell out on anything that even closely resembles a heater. It's the Sammy Sosa syndrome.

When the Sox offense changed things up for a week or so, they had success. Hitters were going up the middle, staying back on everything, and were stringing together singles and doubles. Throw in a couple of walks, as well.

The moment Thome goes down and the offense is behind the eight ball, they start trying to catch lightning in a bottle with the homer again. As a result, pitchers are laughing all day as they feature their second pitch almost exclusively. From Durbin's curveball to Washburn's change to Escobar's splitter, they're taking advantage of a bad approach. Our hitters, desperate to make something happen, are shooting themselves in the foot.

MisterB
05-02-2007, 10:40 PM
Anyone want to update the Corpseball graphic?

Sadly, it looks like it's time to...

Jurr
05-02-2007, 10:44 PM
Sadly, it looks like it's time to...


Damn, I miss the Rick White picture.

infohawk
05-02-2007, 10:54 PM
Imagine how Kenny must feel right now.
Maybe it's time for Kenny to tip over a buffet table or two.

WhiteSox5187
05-03-2007, 12:09 AM
This whole offense is pull happy. The moment they read a possible fastball, they fly open and try to yank the pitch to the pull field. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see it.

Pitchers are featuring offspeed to the Sox all day, and they know that they'll get our hitters out in front of everything. Listening to the Tigers broadcast during the last series vs. Det, they were saying that the pitchers were going to be featuring a lot of changeups. The secret's out. If you watch any footage of Santana vs. the Sox, it becomes academic. Feature offspeed stuff and they're dead.

It's no coincidence that the Sox hit pitchers like Verlander well. They LOVE fastballs almost to a fault. They'll sell out on anything that even closely resembles a heater. It's the Sammy Sosa syndrome.

When the Sox offense changed things up for a week or so, they had success. Hitters were going up the middle, staying back on everything, and were stringing together singles and doubles. Throw in a couple of walks, as well.

The moment Thome goes down and the offense is behind the eight ball, they start trying to catch lightning in a bottle with the homer again. As a result, pitchers are laughing all day as they feature their second pitch almost exclusively. From Durbin's curveball to Washburn's change to Escobar's splitter, they're taking advantage of a bad approach. Our hitters, desperate to make something happen, are shooting themselves in the foot.
I never thought of it like that, but yea, now that I think about it. They really do struggle against those secondary pitches and junk ball pitchers, right now Freddy Garcia would give this team fits.

QCIASOXFAN
05-03-2007, 01:36 AM
I didn't even watch the game because I was at work, but I just saw the highlights and ****ing ****@!:angry: Danks deserves better then that as do all of our starters. I don't care what anybody else says but Pods and Thome are a GIANT part of our offense. This is still no excuse.

Nellie_Fox
05-03-2007, 01:40 AM
It's amazing what a few days can do to a team's psyche.Or to the fans'.

Blueprint1
05-03-2007, 02:05 AM
I have no clue. I really have no clue why this team can't hit right now.

JB98
05-03-2007, 02:05 AM
Or to the fans'.

No kidding. I'm feeling September of 2006 rotten right about now.

ShoelessJoeS
05-03-2007, 03:33 AM
Maybe it's time for Kenny to tip over a buffet table or two.We can only hope.

It's Dankerific
05-03-2007, 03:56 AM
It said in the tribune today that the rangers once pulled beer from the clubhouse. players complained, manager responded "win 10 games in a row and its back", Soon after ran the longest win streak in ranger history..

its time to try anything.. even if it means the boys cant have a brew.. WE might need it, but they ain't DESERVING it.

Hitmen77
05-03-2007, 09:01 AM
Maybe it's time for Kenny to tip over a buffet table or two.

I don't think that'll do any good. The offense isn't comatose because the guys are lazy - it's because they're pressing and it's become a total mental thing. I really doubt Kenny or Ozzie flipping tables over is going to help these guys get back on track.

itsnotrequired
05-03-2007, 09:02 AM
I don't think that'll do any good. The offense isn't comatose because the guys are lazy - it's because they're pressing and it's become a total mental thing. I really doubt Kenny or Ozzie flipping tables over is going to help these guys get back on track.

What KW really needs to do is drive his car on the field.

MCHSoxFan
05-03-2007, 03:23 PM
It said in the tribune today that the rangers once pulled beer from the clubhouse. players complained, manager responded "win 10 games in a row and its back", Soon after ran the longest win streak in ranger history..

its time to try anything.. even if it means the boys cant have a brew.. WE might need it, but they ain't DESERVING it.

I will go talk to my batboy friend. He will HIDE ALL OF THE SNACKS!!! :D: