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Johnnydogs
04-29-2007, 04:05 PM
Per The Score Sox postgame.

102605
04-29-2007, 04:05 PM
Who was called up? I know Sweeney came up to replace Thome going to the DL but who is replacing Anderson?

delben91
04-29-2007, 04:07 PM
My money is on Terrero.

Johnnydogs
04-29-2007, 04:08 PM
A corresponding move will be made on Tuesday.

DickAllen72
04-29-2007, 04:10 PM
My money is on Terrero.
Maybe, but now that Sweeney is here, we already have someone who can passably backup in CF. I hope they surprise us with an acquisition from outside the organization.

DickAllen72
04-29-2007, 04:12 PM
They won't do it, but I wouldn't mind them bringing up that South American (Brazilian?) kid that can fly. He'd be a great pinch runner. They didn't use Anderson much, anyway.

Harry Potter
04-29-2007, 04:17 PM
He gone

DrewSox56
04-29-2007, 04:17 PM
What's up with Thomas Collaro (sp?)

I saw him in ST in Arizona - He can hit a **** ton!

102605
04-29-2007, 04:18 PM
I don't think we will be hearing from Mr. Anderson for awhile.

Corlose 15
04-29-2007, 04:19 PM
So are they going to give Sweeney the at bats that they werent giving Anderson?

I'm not sure why people are so excited to see Sweeney up, he hasn't proven any more than BA.

EMachine10
04-29-2007, 04:21 PM
This is good for him...let him get some at bats. That wasn't fair to his development to play once every 2 weeks up here. Unfortunately, as long as Ozzie is around I don't think any of our young players are going to do any progressing at the big league level.

Harry Potter
04-29-2007, 04:21 PM
*Paging Eduardo Perez, Paging Eduardo Perez*

Sox have an open spot on the 40-man roster after releasing Rogowski.

FedEx227
04-29-2007, 04:22 PM
As long as he never parties, never watches TV, never shows any type of emotion, isn't under age 30 and never laughs about almost colliding with someone then he'll get plenty of at-bats.

Unfortunately, as long as Ozzie is around I don't think any of our young players are going to do any progressing at the big league level.Nail on the head.

TheOldRoman
04-29-2007, 04:25 PM
I am a BA supporter, but this is the right move. If he wasn't going to play everyday in the majors, he needs to be playing everyday in AAA. His progress is only hurt by him sitting on the bench.
Maybe him getting back out there everyday will allow him to not only find his stroke, but clear his head and get rid of whatever attitude problems is might have had. On the plus side, even without knowing the AAA hitting coach, I am certain he is better at his job than Greg Walker.

Corlose 15
04-29-2007, 04:26 PM
I am a BA supporter, but this is the right move. If he wasn't going to play everyday in the majors, he needs to be playing everyday in AAA. His progress is only hurt by him sitting on the bench.
Maybe him getting back out there everyday will allow him to not only find his stroke, but clear his head and get rid of whatever attitude problems is might have had. On the plus side, even without knowing the AAA hitting coach, I am certain he is better at his job than Greg Walker.

Maybe this will do for him what it did for Rowand a couple years ago.

Yeah I know, I'm sorry I had to compare the two but I think it actually applies here.:tongue:

The Immigrant
04-29-2007, 04:27 PM
Mackowiak batting second and A.J. batting cleanup? What a ****ing joke.

And what about scratching out a run here and there? When was the last time this offense manufactured a run? What's the point of having Mackowiak in the lineup if he can't even move a runner to second with no outs, instead hitting into a double play? Unbelievable.

Not surprisingly, Uribe has gone back to swinging from his heels.

Dusty = Neifi Perez
Ozzie = Alex Cintron

DickAllen72
04-29-2007, 04:32 PM
As long as he never parties, never watches TV, never shows any type of emotion, isn't under age 30 and never laughs about almost colliding with someone then he'll get plenty of at-bats.
They probably sent Anderson down just to keep him away from hanging with Sweeney! :tongue:

BanditJimmy
04-29-2007, 04:42 PM
This is good for him...let him get some at bats. That wasn't fair to his development to play once every 2 weeks up here. Unfortunately, as long as Ozzie is around I don't think any of our young players are going to do any progressing at the big league level.

Amen to that statement.

For Cintron, Ozuna and Machowiak to be ahead in the depth chart over Anderson, Ozzie is starting to remind me a lot of Dusty Baker.


Kenny needs to start to worry if his manager cannot be a bit more patient with his future prospects. Eventually, minor league postion players will have to start making an impact here at the big league level or you will be facing a $150 million pay -roll of old veterans come 2008-2009.

CHISOXFAN13
04-29-2007, 04:49 PM
Mackowiak batting second and A.J. batting cleanup? What a ****ing joke.

And what about scratching out a run here and there? When was the last time this offense manufactured a run? What's the point of having Mackowiak in the lineup if he can't even move a runner to second with no outs, instead hitting into a double play? Unbelievable.

Not surprisingly, Uribe has gone back to swinging from his heels.

Dusty = Neifi Perez
Ozzie = Alex Cintron

Mackowiak hit the **** out of that ball. Funny, I don't see you bitching about Dye's WEAKdouble play grounder to third an inning later.

EVERYBODY isslumping, but yeah, let's blame it on Cintron and Mackowiak.

itsnotrequired
04-29-2007, 04:50 PM
There has to be more going on behind the scene that we don't know about. This whoe situation is very strange.

Tragg
04-29-2007, 05:02 PM
Probably best, given that Ozzie had no interest in him.

Just more Cintron at DH and AJ at cleanup; big league offense, Ozzie-style.

UserNameBlank
04-29-2007, 05:04 PM
It's about time. Good for BA, hopefully he will raise his trade value and get moved to another organization where he will have a real chance and he brings us an offensive player we can use.

Good luck to BA, and **** you Ozzie Guillen.

BanditJimmy
04-29-2007, 05:09 PM
There has to be more going on behind the scene that we don't know about. This whoe situation is very strange.

you think he walked out on the team or even had a face to face shouting match with Ozzie?


It would boil my blood if I am Anderson to ride the bench 98% of the season and seeing the rest of the guys hit .230 for the season. And then to see the LF and DH go down with injuries and still see everyone esle playing ahead of me (Cintron & Mack).

UserNameBlank
04-29-2007, 05:11 PM
There has to be more going on behind the scene that we don't know about. This whoe situation is very strange.
I can't wait to hear Hawk explain this one:

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:KgbmMIvIH2xbkM:http://www.bravesbeat.com/bravesjournal/bristol/archives/harrelson.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bravesbeat.com/bravesjournal/bristol/archives/harrelson.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bravesbeat.com/bravesjournal/bristol/archives/2005/10/index.html&h=202&w=148&sz=14&hl=en&start=16&tbnid=KgbmMIvIH2xbkM:&tbnh=105&tbnw=77&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhawk%2Bharrelson%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D 10%26hl%3Den)
"Ozzie is such a great manager. I tell ya, you put him next to Eric Wedge and I'll show you two of the best managers in baseball."

UserNameBlank
04-29-2007, 05:16 PM
you think he walked out on the team or even had a face to face shouting match with Ozzie?


It would boil my blood if I am Anderson to ride the bench 98% of the season and seeing the rest of the guys hit .230 for the season. And then to see the LF and DH go down with injuries and still see everyone esle playing ahead of me (Cintron & Mack).
I agree. If I am BA I would be even more pissed off when I read **** in the papers where Ozzie blames me for not hitting when I haven't gotten the opportunity.

This is will be one case where a former player talks **** about the Sox after being traded and I will agree with him 100%. BA is on the block and won't be here much longer. It is obvious Ozzie doesn't like him and I hope when he's moved he trashes him.

Madvora
04-29-2007, 05:33 PM
For Cintron, Ozuna and Machowiak to be ahead in the depth chart over Anderson, Ozzie is starting to remind me a lot of Dusty Baker.

2006
Cintron - .285 - 5 - 41 - (91 games)
Mackowiak - .290 - 5 - 23 - (112 games)
Ozuna - .328 - 2 - 17 - (79 games)
Anderson - .225 - 8 - 33 - (134 games)

Yes, Anderson is superior in the field, but why is it unthinkable to you that he would be behind these guys?

BarbG
04-29-2007, 05:37 PM
Good luck to BA, and **** you Ozzie Guillen.
Wow.

This is how we regard the manager who brought us the first World Series championship in 88 years in his second year?!

Disgusting.

There is absolutely no proof whatsoever of this imaginary "Ozzie's out to get BA" conspiracy theory. All the whining that "Ozzie's destroying BA's confidence..." What a crock. In baseball, as in life, there is ONE PERSON who can "destroy BA's confidence" - and that's the guy BA sees when he looks in the mirror.

I was crazy about BA when he came up in '05. He did NOT look the same in '06. "Give him a chance?" 130+ games is plenty enough of a "chance" - in 35 years watching this team I've seen MANY, MANY, MANY through the years get a heck of a lot less.

I really like BA but I can't make myself feel sorry for ANYBODY who gets their first World Series ring within 90 days of making the majors, then gets a golden opportunity with a rookie year on the championship team.

Patrick134
04-29-2007, 05:45 PM
It's about time. Good for BA, hopefully he will raise his trade value and get moved to another organization where he will have a real chance and he brings us an offensive player we can use.

Good luck to BA, and **** you Ozzie Guillen.



BAAA, stop posting. The next bus to Charlotte leaves soon.

UserNameBlank
04-29-2007, 05:45 PM
2006
Cintron - .285 - 5 - 41 - (91 games)
Mackowiak - .290 - 5 - 23 - (112 games)
Ozuna - .328 - 2 - 17 - (79 games)
Anderson - .225 - 8 - 33 - (134 games)

Yes, Anderson is superior in the field, but why is it unthinkable to you that he would be behind these guys?
Because Anderson is an everyday player at this point. The other guys are bench players.

The whole Brian vs. Erstad argument was exactly because of this. You have one guy in Erstad who had been looked at by everyone in baseball, including KW, as a bench player and another guy in Brian was looked at as the CF of the future.

You don't put your no. 1 picks on the bench to play old veterans coming off injuries. You don't play guys who have already shown that they are not capable starters over your top prospects either.

I don't think anyone was expecting Brian to go out and put up allstar numbers this year, but people were expecting an offensive improvement over last year and stellar defense. The fact that he never got an opportunity shows two things: one, Ozzie doesn't like him for whatever reason; two, as long as Ozzie in charge BA is not our CF of the future; three, Brian is going to follow the McCarthy/Rauch/Caballo route out the door.

Soxworldchamps
04-29-2007, 05:45 PM
Wow.

This is how we regard the manager who brought us the first World Series championship in 88 years in his second year?!

Disgusting.

There is absolutely no proof whatsoever of this imaginary "Ozzie's out to get BA" conspiracy theory. All the whining that "Ozzie's destroying BA's confidence..." What a crock. In baseball, as in life, there is ONE PERSON who can "destroy BA's confidence" - and that's the guy BA sees when he looks in the mirror.

I was crazy about BA when he came up in '05. He did NOT look the same in '06. "Give him a chance?" 130+ games is plenty enough of a "chance" - in 35 years watching this team I've seen MANY, MANY, MANY through the years get a heck of a lot less.

I really like BA but I can't make myself feel sorry for ANYBODY who gets their first World Series ring within 90 days of making the majors, then gets a golden opportunity with a rookie year on the championship team.


He didn't get a ring.

FarWestChicago
04-29-2007, 05:48 PM
It's about time. Good for BA, hopefully he will raise his trade value and get moved to another organization where he will have a real chance and he brings us an offensive player we can use.

Good luck to BA, and **** you Ozzie Guillen.And you have crossed that line PHG mentioned. Take a hike BA fan; this site is for SOX fans.

Patrick134
04-29-2007, 05:49 PM
Because Anderson is an everyday player at this point. The other guys are bench players.

The whole Brian vs. Erstad argument was exactly because of this. You have one guy in Erstad who had been looked at by everyone in baseball, including KW, as a bench player and another guy in Brian was looked at as the CF of the future.

You don't put your no. 1 picks on the bench to play old veterans coming off injuries. You don't play guys who have already shown that they are not capable starters over your top prospects either.

I don't think anyone was expecting Brian to go out and put up allstar numbers this year, but people were expecting an offensive improvement over last year and stellar defense. The fact that he never got an opportunity shows two things: one, Ozzie doesn't like him for whatever reason; two, as long as Ozzie in charge BA is not our CF of the future; three, Brian is going to follow the McCarthy/Rauch/Caballo route out the door.


Um, don't link Caballo with the 2 youngsters there. The sox knew how good Lee was, and traded him for Pods. That one kinda worked out for us, I think.

NSSoxFan
04-29-2007, 05:49 PM
He didn't get a ring.


Yes he did.

Soxworldchamps
04-29-2007, 05:51 PM
Yes he did.


Are you sure? I thought he wasn't actually on the team when they won the Series.

Patrick134
04-29-2007, 05:52 PM
Are you sure? I thought he wasn't actually on the team when they won the Series.


they can choose to give rings to whomever they want. It's not based on the post season roster. I believe Nomar got one with the 2004 Carmines, and he was long gone by then.

UserNameBlank
04-29-2007, 05:52 PM
Wow.

This is how we regard the manager who brought us the first World Series championship in 88 years in his second year?!

Disgusting.

There is absolutely no proof whatsoever of this imaginary "Ozzie's out to get BA" conspiracy theory. All the whining that "Ozzie's destroying BA's confidence..." What a crock. In baseball, as in life, there is ONE PERSON who can "destroy BA's confidence" - and that's the guy BA sees when he looks in the mirror.

I was crazy about BA when he came up in '05. He did NOT look the same in '06. "Give him a chance?" 130+ games is plenty enough of a "chance" - in 35 years watching this team I've seen MANY, MANY, MANY through the years get a heck of a lot less.

I really like BA but I can't make myself feel sorry for ANYBODY who gets their first World Series ring within 90 days of making the majors, then gets a golden opportunity with a rookie year on the championship team.

Ozzie was the manager when we won a championship, but with the pitching we had that year, as well as the timely hitting and solid fundamentals, that team could have won the WS with any number of managers. KW was the one to put this team together, not Ozzie. Ozzie provided motivation, but there is no reason to think that just because a guy is a good motivator he is a good manager.

The Sox said prior to the '06 and '07 seasons that Brian was not ready offensively to start everyday in '06. So when he struggles, what is so shocking about it? A "golden opportunity" for Brian would be the same type of opportuniy that most teams give young players - chances to contribute and redeem themselves. Brian never got that chance.

It's not all about Brian either. If this is the type of approach Ozzie in particular is going to take in trying to develop young players it is a major mistake.

ilsox7
04-29-2007, 05:53 PM
Are you sure? I thought he wasn't actually on the team when they won the Series.

The Sox gave out 432 rings.

Soxworldchamps
04-29-2007, 05:53 PM
they can choose to give rings to whomever they want. It's not based on the post season roster. I believe Nomar got one with the 2004 Carmines, and he was long gone by then.


Ooooooook, thanks. I didn't know that.



Never mind then, carry on :redface:

Patrick134
04-29-2007, 05:54 PM
Ozzie was the manager when we won a championship, but with the pitching we had that year, as well as the timely hitting and solid fundamentals, that team could have won the WS with any number of managers. KW was the one to put this team together, not Ozzie. Ozzie provided motivation, but there is no reason to think that just because a guy is a good motivator he is a good manager.

The Sox said prior to the '06 and '07 seasons that Brian was not ready offensively to start everyday in '06. So when he struggles, what is so shocking about it? A "golden opportunity" for Brian would be the same type of opportuniy that most teams give young players - chances to contribute and redeem themselves. Brian never got that chance.

It's not all about Brian either. If this is the type of approach Ozzie in particular is going to take in trying to develop young players it is a major mistake.


It doesn't "help" a young player to have them in the bigs getting owned on a nightly basis at the plate. Charlotte is the best place for BAAA at this moment in time.

Red Barchetta
04-29-2007, 05:56 PM
Are you sure? I thought he wasn't actually on the team when they won the Series.

Yep, he's actually in the picture on the front page of the Red Eye when they won the WS.

UserNameBlank
04-29-2007, 05:56 PM
And you have crossed that line PHG mentioned. Take a hike BA fan; this site is for SOX fans.
So I'm not a Sox fan because I think Ozzie is a bad manager?

FarWestChicago
04-29-2007, 05:57 PM
So I'm not a Sox fan because I think Ozzie is a bad manager?No, you care more about some kid than you do about the team. That's the issue PHG pointed out and you have illustrated.

BarbG
04-29-2007, 06:01 PM
So I'm not a Sox fan because I think Ozzie is a bad manager?

There's a difference between disagreeing with his management decisions and "**** you."

UserNameBlank
04-29-2007, 06:01 PM
It doesn't "help" a young player to have them in the bigs getting owned on a nightly basis at the plate. Charlotte is the best place for BAAA at this moment in time.
I agree that Charlotte is the best place for him now since he can't play, but I'd hardly call getting 2 hits over 17 sporadic AB's on the season is "getting owned on a nightly basis."

itsnotrequired
04-29-2007, 06:02 PM
There's a difference between disagreeing with his management decisions and "**** you."

It is also baseless as no one but the front office fully understands the situation. Yeah, yeah, Ozzie said something about not liking Anderson going out and partying last year but this goes way beyond such a minor incident.

UserNameBlank
04-29-2007, 06:07 PM
No, you care more about some kid than you do about the team. That's the issue PHG pointed out and you have illustrated.
OKay, well sorry for using the wrong word then. Personally I'm glad he got sent down, but it's not just about him as I've said. It is the philosphy that I don't like. Brian is just an example. If they do the same that they did to Brian to Sweeney or Fields or any other top prospect it is going in the wrong direction IMO.

Winning organizations either make a commitment to young players or not; they don't call up a kid when they know he's not ready, play him, and then have him break camp as a 6th OF when all signs in ST pointed that he was ready. This is not the kind of thing the Braves or Twins would do, and those are the teams we're supposedly trying to emulate.

HotelWhiteSox
04-29-2007, 06:07 PM
There is absolutely no proof whatsoever of this imaginary "Ozzie's out to get BA" conspiracy theory. All the whining that "Ozzie's destroying BA's confidence..."

He has thrown BA under the bus about 20 times in the past 2 years. Some examples: The whole McCarthy thing this past spring, Ozzie says 'the only guy he was close with was Anderson and he picked the wrong guy to be friends with'. The year before, Ozzie feels the need to air out Anderson's personal life/late night tendencies. Last year when he was struggling early, Hawk mentioned how Ozzie would go up to Brian while he was eating and say 'you better enjoy those, they could be your last' (even if a joke, when a guy's obvious problem is in his head, not sure about that strategy), etc.

Frater Perdurabo
04-29-2007, 06:08 PM
This was for the best. Anderson gets to work on his swing, and Ozzie now has room for another player in his doghouse.

The Dude
04-29-2007, 06:09 PM
Well with the way Ozzie has treated him, this is the best option for BA. It is just a damn shame that we are wasting away a guy who has the potential to be a damn good player because of egos. Basically, there is no spot for him on this team anymore and he deserves a shot someplace else. Also, with the way our team has handled this situation, his trade value probably isn't very high either.

Time to use one of my favorite images.
http://img458.imageshack.us/img458/8783/ewokthreadsu2.jpg

Brian26
04-29-2007, 06:11 PM
I can't wait to hear Hawk explain this one:


If the Sox go all the way, Hawk's explanation will be that Ozzie was trying to give as many at-bats to as many bench guys as possible because he knew the starters would get tired down the stretch and it would be important for those bench guys to feel comfortable and prepared stepping in.

MUsoxfan
04-29-2007, 06:14 PM
Winning organizations either make a commitment to young players or not; they don't call up a kid when they know he's not ready, play him, and then have him break camp as a 6th OF when all signs in ST pointed that he was ready. This is not the kind of thing the Braves or Twins would do, and those are the teams we're supposedly trying to emulate.

The Sox aren't a winning organization? How many rings have the Braves and Twins been issued in the last decade?

Brian26
04-29-2007, 06:14 PM
The Sox gave out 432 rings.

Right. If Christine O'Reiley and a couple of long time ushers can get rings, BA should have received a ring for the two homers off King Felix in Seattle.

What's sad is that, so far, his major league peak may have been that game.

UserNameBlank
04-29-2007, 06:15 PM
If the Sox go all the way, Hawk's explanation will be that Ozzie was trying to give as many at-bats to as many bench guys as possible because he knew the starters would get tired down the stretch and it would be important for those bench guys to feel comfortable and prepared stepping in.
I think you're exactly right. And if they don't, Hawk will talk about beating ourselves early and not getting off to a good start despite the cold weather, even though the weather has been his favorite excuse thusfar. Either it is that or Hawk blames the schedule makers or something.

Brian26
04-29-2007, 06:16 PM
Yep, he's actually in the picture on the front page of the Red Eye when they won the WS.

He was on the bench, but not on the active roster. The Sox let Anderson, Borchard and McCarthy sit on the bench for the playoffs.

102605
04-29-2007, 06:17 PM
He was on the bench, but not on the active roster. The Sox let Anderson, Borchard and McCarthy sit on the bench for the playoffs.

I'm glad Borchard got his ring. :D:

sox1970
04-29-2007, 06:18 PM
He was on the bench, but not on the active roster. The Sox let Anderson, Borchard and McCarthy sit on the bench for the playoffs.

Ross Gload and Raul Casanova were both there too.

Jamie Burke got one at bat in 2005, and he got a ring.

ilsox7
04-29-2007, 06:19 PM
I find it interesting how people come to such strong conclusions without knowing much information. No one at WSI has any clue about 95% of the things that happen behind the scenes with the White Sox. And the little information that has come out has pointed toward BA having an attitude/preparation/work ethic problem in the organization's eyes. Who knows if this is actually the case or if this is actually how the organization feels. We certainly do not have enough information to know.

But if BA does have those problems, then I have no issue with not playing him and sending him down.

UserNameBlank
04-29-2007, 06:21 PM
The Sox aren't a winning organization? How many rings have the Braves and Twins been issued in the last decade?
The Sox had one great year, and have one World Series accomplishment that means more than anything the Braves and Twins have done recently. BUT, you can't deny all the division championships those teams have won in recent years. The number one goal is to win the WS obviously, but you have to make the playoffs first. There is no way this team has had the year to year success of the Twins and Braves.

shoelessshaun27!
04-29-2007, 06:25 PM
I personally like Anderson, but he can't hit enough to be on the team.

MUsoxfan
04-29-2007, 06:27 PM
The Sox had one great year, and have one World Series accomplishment that means more than anything the Braves and Twins have done recently. BUT, you can't deny all the division championships those teams have won in recent years. The number one goal is to win the WS obviously, but you have to make the playoffs first. There is no way this team has had the year to year success of the Twins and Braves.

The Braves are a different animal than the Twins. If I were a Braves fans I'd be looking for my next team to root for. 14 division championships in a row with one World Series isn't success.

The Twins are a low-budget team with high-level scouts and minor league talent. I admire them to a point because they almost always find a way to win, but they don't win it all. Also, even the Twins won't stick with a guy that just isn't cutting it.

BarbG
04-29-2007, 06:28 PM
He has thrown BA under the bus about 20 times in the past 2 years. Some examples: The whole McCarthy thing this past spring, Ozzie says 'the only guy he was close with was Anderson and he picked the wrong guy to be friends with'. The year before, Ozzie feels the need to air out Anderson's personal life/late night tendencies. Last year when he was struggling early, Hawk mentioned how Ozzie would go up to Brian while he was eating and say 'you better enjoy those, they could be your last' (even if a joke, when a guy's obvious problem is in his head, not sure about that strategy), etc.

I read the McCarthy quote and thought, hmm, maybe Ozzie knows them better than I do and there's a chance he may be right.

I never heard or read Ozzie talk about BA's personal life. Only people here talking about seeing him out partying all the time. Again, who cares, as long as he's doing his job.

And the joking - did nobody see Ozzie blatantly mock and immitate Jon Garland in the dugout after he dropped that ball on the non-throw to first? Or what he did to Tracy? He wasn't even joking then. Nobody screamed all this "he's out to get them" stuff. Only with BA, and I don't get it.

If there were anything in the past that MIGHT be perceived as causing a problem, my GUESS would be that Ozzie may not have been thrilled at BA coming out of the dugout to get himself suspended during the Cubs brawl. As entertaining as that was to watch, it probably didn't endear him to management. Just a guess, and I never heard Ozzie "throw him under a bus" for that either.

We have seen many succeed at many things when it seemed the whole world was against them. Blaming others is a copout. There is ONE person on the planet who knows why BA isn't performing at his potential and that is BA. I hope he figures it out. I hope he corrects it. I am very curious to see how he does in Charlotte.

Patrick134
04-29-2007, 06:28 PM
The Sox had one great year, and have one World Series accomplishment that means more than anything the Braves and Twins have done recently. BUT, you can't deny all the division championships those teams have won in recent years. The number one goal is to win the WS obviously, but you have to make the playoffs first. There is no way this team has had the year to year success of the Twins and Braves.

Braves great run = 1 WS win.
Sox 2005 = 1 WS win


The sox are i believe the third winningest team since '91 behind the yanks and braves. 2000 was a great year, albeit with a dissapointing post season.

cbotnyse
04-29-2007, 06:29 PM
:lurkers


Good luck Brian.

itsnotrequired
04-29-2007, 06:31 PM
I find it interesting how people come to such strong conclusions without knowing much information. No one at WSI has any clue about 95% of the things that happen behind the scenes with the White Sox. And the little information that has come out has pointed toward BA having an attitude/preparation/work ethic problem in the organization's eyes. Who knows if this is actually the case or if this is actually how the organization feels. We certainly do not have enough information to know.

But if BA does have those problems, then I have no issue with not playing him and sending him down.

No! It is so obvious that Ozzie simply HATES Anderson! He is a terrible manager with no baseball mind! And KW is an idiot for keeping Ozzie around!!! OBVIOUS!!!

Law11
04-29-2007, 06:41 PM
Wow.. I was sitting in the front row today as he was signing at kids day.

Some guy as I took this shot said when the hell are you gonna start hitting..
he was like.." when I actually get to play"..

he stayed out there about 10 minutes past all the other players signing and said what are they gonna do not start me...

Grzegorz
04-29-2007, 06:41 PM
Wow.

This is how we regard the manager who brought us the first World Series championship in 88 years in his second year?!

Disgusting.


That argument is getting very, very, old... What is he going to do for us THIS year?

Britt Burns
04-29-2007, 06:41 PM
I'm the biggest Ozzie and KW fan around, but I do not think they handled Anderson very well at all, especially this year. I don't know what he does on his own time, but BA got vitrtually no chance to show what kind of progress he had made from last season to this one on the field. I never thought he was going to be much more than a average starter/platoon type player, but I still wold have liked to have seen him either get a chance as a regular the first month of this year, or start in the monors to begin with.

UserNameBlank
04-29-2007, 06:49 PM
The Braves are a different animal than the Twins. If I were a Braves fans I'd be looking for my next team to root for. 14 division championships in a row with one World Series isn't success.

The Twins are a low-budget team with high-level scouts and minor league talent. I admire them to a point because they almost always find a way to win, but they don't win it all. Also, even the Twins won't stick with a guy that just isn't cutting it.
If the Twins actually spent some money they'd have another championship by now. It seems like every year they make the playoffs they are only 1-2 players away from being a world championship team, but blame that on ownership.

14 straight division championships is a huge success. 1 WS championship in that span is IMO a disappointment, but again like the Twins, there have been times where they might have just been a player or two away. Not every team can have dynasties like the Bulls had or the Yankees have had, especially in baseball where there are so many variables and the look of a team changes quite considerably year to year, but if the Sox win 14 straight division titles with one more WS title I certainly won't be looking for a new team to root for.

Brian26
04-29-2007, 06:52 PM
If there were anything in the past that MIGHT be perceived as causing a problem, my GUESS would be that Ozzie may not have been thrilled at BA coming out of the dugout to get himself suspended during the Cubs brawl.


The same Ozzie that said his wife would slide harder into 2nd base than Carlos Lee (after Torii Hunter took out Jamie Burke)? The same Ozzie that went after Sean Tracey for not hitting the batter in the Texas game (after Padilla hit AJ)? If anything, BA coming out of the dugout and showing some fire probably endeared him to Ozzie for awhile. I'd think Ozzie would have been more upset if BA stayed on the bench for the fight.

Patrick134
04-29-2007, 06:52 PM
If the Twins actually spent some money they'd have another championship by now. It seems like every year they make the playoffs they are only 1-2 players away from being a world championship team, but blame that on ownership.

14 straight division championships is a huge success. 1 WS championship in that span is IMO a disappointment, but again like the Twins, there have been times where they might have just been a player or two away. Not every team can have dynasties like the Bulls had or the Yankees have had, especially in baseball where there are so many variables and the look of a team changes quite considerably year to year, but if the Sox win 14 straight division titles with one more WS title I certainly won't be looking for a new team to root for.


Money doesn't = championships. If that were true, the Yankees would win it every year. Also, every team's goal is to win the world series. 1 team wins, the rest don't. You tip your cap to the 14 divisional titles, but at the end of the day, it's rings that count.

Brian26
04-29-2007, 06:53 PM
he stayed out there about 10 minutes past all the other players signing and said what are they gonna do not start me...

I think we're all wondering if you got Hard Art's autograph too :D:

UserNameBlank
04-29-2007, 07:00 PM
Money doesn't = championships. If that were true, the Yankees would win it every year. Also, every team's goal is to win the world series. 1 team wins, the rest don't. You tip your cap to the 14 divisional titles, but at the end of the day, it's rings that count.
True, but money spent wisely = championships. The Yankees made some questionable moves that turned out horrible (like Wright, Pavano, and Igawa recently) and other moves that were just horrible from the get go (Mondesi for example).

The Twins OTOH would be one team that I think if given a 85-90 mil payroll every year would be much, much tougher (even though they are already pretty tough). The Sox over the last few years have been wise spending money, but before that the philosophy was the all-or-nothing offense mixed with tons of talented pitching prospects who never panned out (which was the main reason we had bad teams).

KyWhiSoxFan
04-29-2007, 07:03 PM
Anderson needed to go down, as painful as it may be for him. He needs to bat four times a day and work on his swing. It's too long, and he has not adjusted in a year, plus he can't hit an inside pitch to save his life. He always bails on inside pitches, even those that are strikes.

Hopefully the Sox have a good hitting coach in Charlotte. And hopefully Anderson will listen.

Patrick134
04-29-2007, 07:04 PM
True, but money spent wisely = championships. The Yankees made some questionable moves that turned out horrible (like Wright, Pavano, and Igawa recently) and other moves that were just horrible from the get go (Mondesi for example).

The Twins OTOH would be one team that I think if given a 85-90 mil payroll every year would be much, much tougher (even though they are already pretty tough). The Sox over the last few years have been wise spending money, but before that the philosophy was the all-or-nothing offense mixed with tons of talented pitching prospects who never panned out (which was the main reason we had bad teams).


But, if the Twins had gone and bought talent, some of their good youngsters may not have had the chance to shine, like Morneau.

UserNameBlank
04-29-2007, 07:07 PM
But, if the Twins had gone and bought talent, some of their good youngsters may not have had the chance to shine, like Morneau.
I don't think so. Not Morneau. Maybe Punto wouldn't be there, or Bartlett, or Tyner, or Ford. But the Twins have been great at identifying future difference makers and hanging on to them. There is a reason they are always rumored to be looking at a midseason trade for a rental but never get anyone expensive.

Law11
04-29-2007, 07:08 PM
I think we're all wondering if you got Hard Art's autograph too :D:

Not one signed as far I as saw..
The section next to me on the other side had Bobby and Molina... take a gander at who won that autograph battle..

CLR01
04-29-2007, 07:12 PM
If there were anything in the past that MIGHT be perceived as causing a problem, my GUESS would be that Ozzie may not have been thrilled at BA coming out of the dugout to get himself suspended during the Cubs brawl. As entertaining as that was to watch, it probably didn't endear him to management. Just a guess, and I never heard Ozzie "throw him under a bus" for that either.

If that's the reason then Ozzie is an idiot. He'd have to be considering Anderson was running back from first base after hitting the sac fly which started that whole mess.

CLR01
04-29-2007, 07:13 PM
There has to be more going on behind the scene that we don't know about. This whoe situation is very strange.

Word on the street is that fighting with the managers son at a bar is a bad career move.

itsnotrequired
04-29-2007, 07:19 PM
Word on the street is that fighting with the managers son at a bar is a bad career move.

The appropriate place to fight managers is in the tunnel to the clubhouse.

whitesoxfan
04-29-2007, 07:21 PM
Good move for BA. As I've been saying, he needs at-bats and the only way it's going to happen is if he's at Charlotte. I just hope he takes this the right way and doesn't throw a fit about it.

As for the call-up, let's just bring up a guy that can hit and get on base. Please.

The Dude
04-29-2007, 07:23 PM
Word on the street is that fighting with the managers son at a bar is a bad career move.

Ozzie Jr. is no class act himself. The apple definitely doesn't fall far from the tree.

As someone else said here, the argument that Ozzie can do no wrong because he won the WS is getting old and needs to stop. He has to do a better job with young players plain and simple and not let his son or anyone else influence what is best for the team.

Grzegorz
04-29-2007, 07:32 PM
Word on the street is that fighting with the managers son at a bar is a bad career move.

Ozzie Jr. is no class act himself. The apple definitely doesn't fall far from the tree.

As someone else said here, the argument that Ozzie can do no wrong because he won the WS is getting old and needs to stop. He has to do a better job with young players plain and simple and not let his son or anyone else influence what is best for the team.

If what CLR01 hears is true, then management better have called in all parties involved and given the ultimatum that if any of this childish behavior happens again heads would roll.

I can only hope that since stories such have these have not resurfaced that management did offer this type of ultimatum.

This is a professional sports franchise; if the employees and the relatives of employees cannot conduct themselves with civility the offenders have to go. All involved have to go regardless of what they've accomplished for the franchise in the past.

No one person is bigger than the Chicago White Sox organization.

Frontman
04-29-2007, 07:40 PM
Unfortunately, as long as Ozzie is around I don't think any of our young players are going to do any progressing at the big league level.

Right. Since Joe Crede is such an old veteran player......

Frontman
04-29-2007, 07:49 PM
The appropriate place to fight managers is in the tunnel to the clubhouse.


:rolling:

I'm sorry, I refuse to believe this story never made it into the mainstream press that Ozzie Jr and Brian Anderson had a fight, verbally or otherwise; in a bar without it being all over the TV/print/radio.

Ozzie is rough around the edges, yes. But it isn't just "the old veterans" like Mark Buehrle, Joe Crede, and Scott Podsednik that are Ozzie's "boys." I'll look at it this way.

Brandon McCarthy and Brian Anderson aired their emotions in the media; not keeping it in house. One got traded, one got booted to the minors. That's called keeping it within the locker room. If you can't do that, if you are not emotionally responsible to do that, then you don't belong on a major league roster. It's no different than a family or any other workplace. You don't say things like "Well, the two of us can't relate to everyone else on the team because they're all married" and not expect the manager to look at your poor performance, your bar hopping, and the lazy attitude of "my natural talent got me this far, it will keep me going" when you suck, plain and simple and still give you all the chances in the world.

And for all the "Anderson did better in the second half" BS is that in the second half:

He got less at-bats than the first half

AND (the part I like to call "IMPORTANT")

he didn't do much in clutch situations in the second half either. Oh sure, he hit better, but he certainly didn't do it with runners in position nor did he hit the long ball.

I for one am glad that the BA BS is now behind the team. Call him up if he VASTLY improves, otherwise; trade him.

esbrechtel
04-29-2007, 07:51 PM
I think sending BA down was the best situation for him and the team....the sox game him an opportunity to take over CF last year....If they didn't think he was capable of playing CF they would have never traded Rowand. CF was his job to lose....at the beginning of the year he couldn't hit so they had to platoon him with rob and the result was the CF disaster last year....He had his position handed to him on a sliver platter last year he just couldn't cut it, maybe he wasn't ready....

Grzegorz
04-29-2007, 07:52 PM
Frontman,

Would you say Ozzie is "emotionally responsible"? I believe both parties handled this issue poorly.

FedEx227
04-29-2007, 08:02 PM
No, it's BA's. Remember the manager is the reason we win the World Series, but he's not the reason any of his player feel/act/do in any way shape and form.

You guys can't have it both ways.

Either the manager effects the team and his players or he doesn't! Which is it?

JB98
04-29-2007, 08:19 PM
It's about time. Good for BA, hopefully he will raise his trade value and get moved to another organization where he will have a real chance and he brings us an offensive player we can use.

Good luck to BA, and **** you Ozzie Guillen.

Yes, **** the manager who led us to a World Series, and good luck to a .220-hitting outfielder.

JB98
04-29-2007, 08:31 PM
I agree. If I am BA I would be even more pissed off when I read **** in the papers where Ozzie blames me for not hitting when I haven't gotten the opportunity.

This is will be one case where a former player talks **** about the Sox after being traded and I will agree with him 100%. BA is on the block and won't be here much longer. It is obvious Ozzie doesn't like him and I hope when he's moved he trashes him.

And I look forward to booing BA when he returns to the Cell as a member of another team, if that ever happens. I think the paranoia of Anderson's supporters is on full display. "They are scapegoating Anderson." Scapegoating him for what? Our 12-11 record on April 29?

southside rocks
04-29-2007, 08:32 PM
:rolling:

I'm sorry, I refuse to believe this story never made it into the mainstream press that Ozzie Jr and Brian Anderson had a fight, verbally or otherwise; in a bar without it being all over the TV/print/radio.

Ozzie is rough around the edges, yes. But it isn't just "the old veterans" like Mark Buehrle, Joe Crede, and Scott Podsednik that are Ozzie's "boys." I'll look at it this way.

Brandon McCarthy and Brian Anderson aired their emotions in the media; not keeping it in house. One got traded, one got booted to the minors. That's called keeping it within the locker room. If you can't do that, if you are not emotionally responsible to do that, then you don't belong on a major league roster. It's no different than a family or any other workplace. You don't say things like "Well, the two of us can't relate to everyone else on the team because they're all married" and not expect the manager to look at your poor performance, your bar hopping, and the lazy attitude of "my natural talent got me this far, it will keep me going" when you suck, plain and simple and still give you all the chances in the world.

And for all the "Anderson did better in the second half" BS is that in the second half:

He got less at-bats than the first half

AND (the part I like to call "IMPORTANT")

he didn't do much in clutch situations in the second half either. Oh sure, he hit better, but he certainly didn't do it with runners in position nor did he hit the long ball.

I for one am glad that the BA BS is now behind the team. Call him up if he VASTLY improves, otherwise; trade him.

I agree 100%.

Anderson batted something like .190 with RISP last year, and with the bases loaded, he batted .000. He came up eight times with the bases loaded last year. I swear I remember every one of those at-bats, and they were all horrible.

Anderson has not shown that he can hit major-league pitching consistently. Two good months out of six, which is what he had in 2006, is not consistent. Don't party like Mickey Mantle, kid, until you're putting up numbers like Mick.

I hope Anderson can turn things around, psychologically and performance-wise, in Charlotte. He does have a ton of talent.

FarWestChicago
04-29-2007, 08:37 PM
Anderson has not shown that he can hit major-league pitching consistently. Two good months out of six, which is what he had in 2006, is not consistent. Don't party like Mickey Mantle, kid, until you're putting up numbers like Mick.What cracks me up is the REH's truly believe BA is the Mick. I have no idea how they have come to this conclusion; but they have. :smile:

Grzegorz
04-29-2007, 08:56 PM
:?:

Sorry West, but no one on this board thinks BA is Mickey Mantle.

FedEx227
04-29-2007, 08:57 PM
I agree 100%.

Anderson batted something like .190 with RISP last year, and with the bases loaded, he batted .000. He came up eight times with the bases loaded last year. I swear I remember every one of those at-bats, and they were all horrible.

I know I'll be castrated for this remark.

BA with bases loaded 2006 .000
Rob Mackowiak with bases loaded 2006 .000

itsnotrequired
04-29-2007, 08:59 PM
I know I'll be castrated for this remark.

BA with bases loaded 2006 .000
Rob Mackowiak with bases loaded 2006 .000

It should also be noted that neither player has been to the moon (that we know of).

Grzegorz
04-29-2007, 09:00 PM
Yes, **** the manager who led us to a World Series, and good luck to a .220-hitting outfielder.

When does patience run out for a manager?

FedEx227
04-29-2007, 09:00 PM
It should also be noted that neither player has been to the moon (that we know of).

I'm not disagreeing with him at all. I understand Anderson blew major ass with bases loaded and with RISP. But to use that as an argument when his replacement for much of the 2006 season and this season did the same exact thing. It was pointing out a flawed argument, calm down.

FarWestChicago
04-29-2007, 09:00 PM
:?:

Sorry West, but no one on this board thinks BA is Mickey Mantle.If that is true, here's an idea. Why don't you goofballs quit acting like you believe he's Mickey Mantle? :dunno:

CLR01
04-29-2007, 09:01 PM
:?:

Sorry West, but no one on this board thinks BA is Mickey Mantle.

You're wasting your time. It doesn't matter what you type they only read it one way.

It should also be noted that neither player has been to the moon (that we know of).

Erstad created the moon. :wink:

Grzegorz
04-29-2007, 09:02 PM
If that is true, here's an idea. Why don't you goofballs quit acting like you believe he's Mickey Mantle? :dunno:

First off I am not a goof ball. Secondly, he's not the Mick. And you can quote me on that.

FarWestChicago
04-29-2007, 09:04 PM
It was pointing out a flawed argument, calm down.If anybody needs to calm down, it's you and your apoplectic buddies. :rolleyes:

viagracat
04-29-2007, 09:05 PM
Obviously we saw this coming when Sweeney was called up to replace Thome. And Sweeney did nothign to hurt himself today, particularly with his great catch in left field.

Anderson can only be helped by this. He's deluding himself if he thinks he was treated unfairly. Baseball can be a humbling game to say the least. Let's hope BA keeps his head screwed on straight and uses this as a learning opportunity. We may need him down the road.

itsnotrequired
04-29-2007, 09:06 PM
I'm not disagreeing with him at all. I understand Anderson blew major ass with bases loaded and with RISP. But to use that as an argument when his replacement for much of the 2006 season and this season did the same exact thing. It was pointing out a flawed argument, calm down.

I can't see straight, I am so enraged.:angry:

What are you talking about?:?:

FarWestChicago
04-29-2007, 09:08 PM
I can't see straight, I am so enraged.:angry:

What are you talking about?:?:It's called projection. :smile:

DickAllen72
04-29-2007, 09:10 PM
Word on the street is that fighting with the managers son at a bar is a bad career move.
:?:

Craig Grebeck
04-29-2007, 09:12 PM
What cracks me up is the REH's truly believe BA is the Mick. I have no idea how they have come to this conclusion; but they have. :smile:
Here ya go West. (http://http://www.baseball-reference.com/e/erstada01.shtml) Here you will find Erstad's age and injury history as well as how horrible of a hitter he has been for the last five-six years. This is why us "REH" thought that it would be best to put an injury prone, light hitting outfielder on the bench, playing behind a top draft choice who was going into his second year in the big leagues. The young 'spect happened to have a pretty good second half and was one of the best defensive CF in the game. So, it all came down to spring training. Ozzie said whoever performed better would win the job. Well, Anderson tore **** up and was rewarded with sporadic at bats and little to no playing time over the course of a month where there was a vacancy in the outfield (where Ozzie decided a platoon of utility infielders would serve the team best).

This is why it's so disheartening West, the team is (in my opinion, and prett likely) probably heading into a rebuilding era from 2008-2010 mainly because of an overblown market and free agency. Dye will get paid somewhere else, Burls will get paid somewhere else. So if we bring up and develop Josh, Ryan, Brian (?) and even fringe guys who can contribute on the bench like Andy Gonzalez, Jerry Owens, and even Chris Getz, how can we trust Ozzie to handle young talent when there's situations like this arising. I can just see Ozzie blocking Fields with David Bell, blocking Sweeney with Eric Byrnes, blocking Brian with Darin Erstad (after they exercise his 6 million next season and sign him to a lifetime contract).

There is just no good reason that BA can't contribute on a championship team. The team scored a crazy amount of runs last season and despite BA's lack of contribution, was pretty damn good offensively. I root for the Sox, but no manager if above criticism, no matter how many games his GM (one of the top 5-6 in the game mind you) wins for him. After all, it was Kenny who envisioned Anderson starting in CF, with Erstad getting 2 games a week (one for Pauly, who would slide to DH to give Jim a rest, and one for BA against a tough righty) when he signed Darin. But now we're stuck with a prospect who is deemed a "bust" despite numbers that are not out of the norm for good outfielders in their first season of play. Who would give up anything significant for a player that everyone knows the manager refuses to play under any circumstance? No one, and Ozzie so far has ruined BA's career, shown he can't handle young players (no one even say Crede, that's a completely different animal), and shown that he can ruin a player's trade value by not using him. I love the White Sox with all my heart, but despise Ozzie Guillen. Is that alright with everyone?

Grzegorz
04-29-2007, 09:15 PM
I love the White Sox with all my heart, but despise Ozzie Guillen. Is that alright with everyone?

It's not only alright, save a seat in the lifeboat for me... :D:

IlliniSox4Life
04-29-2007, 09:17 PM
And the joking - did nobody see Ozzie blatantly mock and immitate Jon Garland in the dugout after he dropped that ball on the non-throw to first? Or what he did to Tracy? He wasn't even joking then. Nobody screamed all this "he's out to get them" stuff. Only with BA, and I don't get it.


Only with BA because he has repeatedly made it known he's not a fan. And I don't know what news you were reading, but Ozzie was blasted all over the place for yelling at a youngster like Tracey for that. And Jon is a more established player. You just don't talk about a young guy like that who you are trying to develop unless you know him well and have a good relationship with him. And Ozzie doesn't.

FarWestChicago
04-29-2007, 09:23 PM
There is just no good reason that BA can't contribute on a championship team.This is your assumption, not a fact. You don't know this. You just think it is true. Ozzie can't send BA down on his own. KW had to agree to this. There may be things you don't know. I don't understand why you REH's think you know everything. You may be right; but it's just as likely you are wrong. There is certainly no reason to hope for other Sox players to fail, which is pretty much what you are doing.

Frontman
04-29-2007, 09:23 PM
Frontman,

Would you say Ozzie is "emotionally responsible"? I believe both parties handled this issue poorly.

No, I wouldn't say Ozzie is emotionally responsible. HOWEVER, he is the manager (notice I didn't say he was "the manager who blah-blah-blah World Series so blah-blah-blah.) IE he's in charge. Even if the guy in charge is wrong, he's still in charge. Ozzie has 25 players to deal with, not just one. If Ozzie's single job was to develop Anderson, he failed. HOWEVER, Ozzie's job is to take those 25 and get a win however he thinks he can. And after a season and a month, Ozzie obviously thinks he can't do much with Anderson at this point.

BA handled it poorly; even moreso than Ozzie. Why is it that players who under-perform and get moved its always Ozzie being "crazy", yet when guys get moved due to business, its ok? Noone blamed Ozzie for Rowand being traded, and up until this week, that trade paid HUGE dividends for the Sox. Ozzie never said one word bad about Rowand.

Brandon? Yes. Frank? Not so much Ozzie, but KW had his say. Cart Everett? Mags? BA playing like garbage? Ozzie spoke his mind, and I'm sorry, I think he was right on EVERY ONE of those calls. Save Mags and Frank's incredible recovery; I would say the Sox are FAR better off without Brandon (who looks to be headed back to the 'pen, because what situation would you use a starter in a 9 inning game for two innings of relief, especially if said starter is supposed to be taking the ball to start in 3 days? That happened this week in Texas) and Carl isn't even in the league anymore.

BA might of been brought north with the team to see if his off-field behavior changed. And I prefer not to know details, but I could see that if he didn't act appropriately; and was still partying and drinking it up; Ozzie kept him on the bench. If BA still didn't change, send him down. I can see that situation applying here.

Look, Ozzie might be wrong at times. This time? Not soo much. Quite a few folks act like Anderson would be all that is needed to get this team back on track. But a sub-par performance at the plate the first half of last season isn't going to convince me that he'd be the Sox answer to sub-.300 batting averages.

UserNameBlank
04-29-2007, 09:24 PM
First off I am not a goof ball. Secondly, he's not the Mick. And you can quote me on that.
I agree. No one expects him to hit a ton of homers and win MVP awards and make Allstar teams every year, etc. There are some out there though that do expect him to become a decent player and are getting frustrated with the way Ozzie is running the show.

If there is one person in the Sox organization that I trust and put my faith in more than anyone else, it is Kenny Williams. This same guy, who had 9,000,000,000 times more to do with the success of the 2005 squad than Ozzie Guillen did, traded Borchard, Rowand, Reed, and Young to clear the way for Brian to play center. He has gone on record several times declaring Brian the CF of the future and did not actively shop for an alternative CF over the winter. He could have gotten Rowand back in the Philly deal if he wanted, but he did not do it then and he didn't do it during ST either when some reporters thought a deal would happen. Then there is Erstad, who could have been had long before we got him, but we didn't get him until Pods went down because KW wanted CF turned over to BA.

This is all ridiculous. Ozzie is mismanaging this ballclub, period, and now it's not just hurting the present, it's hurting the future too. It's clear Ozzie doesn't want BA on the team, so who is going to be our CF of the future now? Erstad? Terrero?

People complain about Brian's offense. If the Sox - at any point in time - have a CF who plays terrific defense and hits .260-.270 or so with about 10-15 home runs per season, which is the low end of Brian's ceiling, we will have all we need from that position. It's not like he's a corner OF or corner IF or something.

Tragg
04-29-2007, 09:27 PM
:rolling:

Brandon McCarthy and Brian Anderson aired their emotions in the media; not keeping it in house. One got traded, one got booted to the minors.

That's true. The problem is that Ozzie does the same thing - runs his mouth to the media...and it's worse when a manager does it.

2 pitchers were quickly expelled from the organization too for what seemed to reasons other than performance. (Tracey and Rausch). So far, no great harm. So far.

In these circumstances, BA needed to go to the minors, the McCarthy trade looks fine. Just hope Sweeney et al develop well.

viagracat
04-29-2007, 09:28 PM
What in the hell is an "REH"?:dunno:

FarWestChicago
04-29-2007, 09:31 PM
What in the hell is an "REH"?:dunno:Rabid Erstad Hater

BarbG
04-29-2007, 09:32 PM
Only with BA because he has repeatedly made it known he's not a fan. And I don't know what news you were reading, but Ozzie was blasted all over the place for yelling at a youngster like Tracey for that. And Jon is a more established player. You just don't talk about a young guy like that who you are trying to develop unless you know him well and have a good relationship with him. And Ozzie doesn't.

I never said he didn't get blasted in the press for it. Never said I agreed with it. I said he did it. And it's apparent that he's not singling BA out for anything.

Talk about a young player like what? Anybody have links to all of these hundreds of quotes where Ozzie talks about BA's personal life?

You can joke with an established player but not with a rookie?

I was pulling extremely hard for BA right up to today. Doesn't he pay an agent to look out for his best interests and see to it that he is treated fairly? If all these personal vendettas are true, why has said agent not acted?

Frontman
04-29-2007, 09:33 PM
That's true. The problem is that Ozzie does the same thing - runs his mouth to the media...and it's worse when a manager does it.


I disagree. Managers get a camera/microphone in their face before a game, during a game, and after a game. Ozzie is no different that Lou Pinella, Tony LaRussa, Joe Torre, etc. Matter of fact, Ozzie, Lou and Tony are very similar in that fashion; and all have led teams to championships.

Does Ozzie sometimes get atheletes foot fungus on his tongue? You bet. But does that mean he should change? No. He just shouldn't "cross the line" as he did with his Marriotti comments last year. But if he says things to Anderson like "Why walk back to the dugout when you strike out? You give them a chance to boo you;" that to me is leadership. I had a coach in high school with a very similar approach, maybe not as insulting, but still rough. I can honestly say I learned a great deal from that coach, and am a better person for his rough and gruff nature.

`

viagracat
04-29-2007, 09:33 PM
Rabid Erstad Hater

Thanks, West. Count me as an Erstad fan from the day he signed with the Sox.

Erstad sometimes reminds me a little of Rowand. Which should make him a hero to a lot of people on this site.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-29-2007, 09:35 PM
Let me be the first with an update!!!

Brian Anderson will join the team for their road series in Richmond Tuesday night! Good seats still available!!!

And in other news...

Jimmy Reed is still dead.

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/4165A9MVPJL._AA240_.jpg

viagracat
04-29-2007, 09:39 PM
Let me be the first with an update!!!

Brian Anderson will join the team for their road series in Richmond Tuesday night! Good seats still available!!!

And in other news...

Jimmy Reed is still dead.

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/4165A9MVPJL._AA240_.jpg

I actually have that CD, and it's very good. :thumbsup: Sure like "Baby What You Want Me To Do".

Now back to your regularly scheduled Anderson angst...

A. Cavatica
04-29-2007, 09:45 PM
Well, I figure Erstad's about to follow up his hot week with two cold ones, because that's the kind of hitter he's been for six seasons -- but heck, he made me look dumb last week and he's welcome to keep doing it.

Here's a new theory; anyone believe it? The Sox signed Erstad fully intending for him to be the starting CF (or at least Ozzie penciled him in right away). They didn't want to damage Anderson's confidence by demoting him publicly, and they left the door open just a crack for him. But BA's spring wasn't dominant (remember, Arizona batting numbers are ridiculously inflated) and he didn't respond well to the reserve role. Not only did he look terrible in his few at-bats, he made some surprisingly bad defensive plays. So the Sox have started auditioning for a new fourth outfielder.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-29-2007, 09:45 PM
I actually have that CD, and it's very good. :thumbsup: Sure like "Baby What You Want Me To Do".

I have this CD as well and recommend it highly. Jimmy Reed is one of greatest Chicago bluesmen nobody knows.

But we're interrupting a very serious bit of business... the need to wring our hands and wallow in misery over the Sox losing and Brian Anderson being cheated out a fun night of partying. He'll have to do it on the road for Charlotte.

Seattle's loss is Richmond's gain.

UserNameBlank
04-29-2007, 09:47 PM
This is your assumption, not a fact. You don't know this. You just think it is true. Ozzie can't send BA down on his own. KW had to agree to this. There may be things you don't know. I don't understand why you REH's think you know everything. You may be right; but it's just as likely you are wrong. There is certainly no reason to hope for other Sox players to fail, which is pretty much what you are doing.
It is an assumption, but I think there is more than a 50% chance BA could hit something similar to .270/.329/.407 with 13 HR's, 69 RBI's, and a gazillion groundballs to SS.

Those were Rowand's numbers in 2005, and we won then.

Of course, Brian is usually too drunk to run into walls, so the leadership factor might not be there.

JB98
04-29-2007, 09:55 PM
It is an assumption, but I think there is more than a 50% chance BA could hit something similar to .270/.329/.407 with 13 HR's, 69 RBI's, and a gazillion groundballs to SS.

Those were Rowand's numbers in 2005, and we won then.

Of course, Brian is usually too drunk to run into walls, so the leadership factor might not be there.

So based on your personal assumption, you're willing to give Ozzie a big "**** you" for his handling of this situation? We've got some real dogmatists in the free BA camp.

jabrch
04-29-2007, 09:57 PM
That argument is getting very, very, old... What is he going to do for us THIS year?

That's a good question. So far he has us a game and a half out of first place. I'll take that.

I'm glad JR is a much more loyal person than you. This is NOT about what have you done for me lately. That's shortsighted and ignorant. This is a long term relationship.

Craig Grebeck
04-29-2007, 09:58 PM
Well why assume any player can grow/develop in his sophomore effort? Let's just keep signing proven retreads like Erstad who have shown that they are established enough to hit not well at all.

southside rocks
04-29-2007, 10:00 PM
What in the hell is an "REH"?:dunno:

Rabid Erstad Hater

I haven't read all of the posts in the numerous threads about Brian Anderson, but I think that not only is there a vocal contingent that hates Darin Erstad, but the most vehement pro-Anderson folks are also tremendously anti-Ozzie.

In other words, I think a lot of the uproar over BA has nothing to do with BA and everything to do with Ozzie Guillen. Some fans don't like Ozzie -- to put it mildly -- and the Anderson situation gives them a vehicle to express that.

I might be wrong, but that's the sense I get from what I have read.

On the topic of Erstad, I am almost as enamored with him as Hawk is. :tongue: Erstad might even make me forget that other centerfielder, what was his name -- Aaron something-or-other.

itsnotrequired
04-29-2007, 10:00 PM
This is NOT about what have you done for me lately. That's shortsighted and ignorant. This is a long term relationship.

This is what happens when football fans pose as baseball fans.

Craig Grebeck
04-29-2007, 10:01 PM
So, who's the CF of the future?

PaleHoseGeorge
04-29-2007, 10:02 PM
So, who's the CF of the future?

Somebody who plays better than Brian Anderson ever has.

NSSoxFan
04-29-2007, 10:03 PM
Somebody who plays better than Brian Anderson ever has.

But he's in the WSI Hall of Fame!

Grzegorz
04-29-2007, 10:04 PM
I'm glad JR is a much more loyal person than you. This is NOT about what have you done for me lately. That's shortsighted and ignorant. This is a long term relationship.

"Loyal"; let's not throw that word around too loosely.

JB98
04-29-2007, 10:04 PM
So, who's the CF of the future?

Who ****ing cares? We're trying to win a championship in 2007.

Craig Grebeck
04-29-2007, 10:05 PM
Why on earth wouldn't you give him an opportunity to grow PHG? Please, give me one good reason for completely shutting him out of AB, giving the job to Erstad despite Anderson winning the "competition", and assuming that BA's first 400 AB or so are his ceiling.

UserNameBlank
04-29-2007, 10:07 PM
So based on your personal assumption, you're willing to give Ozzie a big "**** you" for his handling of this situation? We've got some real dogmatists in the free BA camp.
Yes, because the playing time of a talented prospect and the future of a position in an organization should not be dependant upon the personal feelings of emotional manager.

KW is the one who put BA in a position to claim the starting CF job and Ozzie is the one who never gave him the opportunity. Whether you love BA and think he's going to become a good player or hate him and think he'll be a bench player his entire career isn't the point.

KW wants to go with the future. Ozzie doesn't want to play BA. KW "assumes" BA can handle the job. Ozzie doesn't like BA.

Can't you see anything wrong here?

PaleHoseGeorge
04-29-2007, 10:07 PM
But he's in the WSI Hall of Fame!

Chet Lemon (http://whitesoxinteractive.com/HallofFame/LemonChet.htm) as Sox centerfielder replacing Brian Anderson?
:wink:

http://whitesoxinteractive.com/Graphics/HallofFame.JPG

ilsox7
04-29-2007, 10:07 PM
Why on earth wouldn't you give him an opportunity to grow PHG? Please, give me one good reason for completely shutting him out of AB, giving the job to Erstad despite Anderson winning the "competition", and assuming that BA's first 400 AB or so are his ceiling.

It's quite possible (likely, even) that a lot is going on behind the scenes that you nor I know anything about. But no one seems to want to even consider that possibility.

NSSoxFan
04-29-2007, 10:10 PM
Chet Lemon (http://whitesoxinteractive.com/HallofFame/LemonChet.htm) as Sox centerfielder replacing Brian Anderson?
:wink:

http://whitesoxinteractive.com/Graphics/HallofFame.JPG

LOL. I meant to say he's in the WSI Bizarro Hall of Fame. This is a place where many below average players roam chasing down balls in CF with ease.

:)

itsnotrequired
04-29-2007, 10:11 PM
Why on earth wouldn't you give him an opportunity to grow PHG? Please, give me one good reason for completely shutting him out of AB, giving the job to Erstad despite Anderson winning the "competition", and assuming that BA's first 400 AB or so are his ceiling.

People still aren't grasping the concept of activities behind the scene that none of us know about. Someone sees a quote by Ozzie or Anderson or whoever and interprets it to agree with whatever bizarre pre-conceived opinion they have. Ozzie isn't jerking Anderson around for spite. KW wouldn't allow it. As mentioned earlier, Anderson was pegged as "The Man" and KW made moves to put him in that position. KW is just going to let all his work go to waste because Ozzie doesn't like him? C'mon. Anderson's struggles in the first year are not enough to justify the events that have transpired.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-29-2007, 10:11 PM
Why on earth wouldn't you give him an opportunity to grow PHG? Please, give me one good reason for completely shutting him out of AB, ...

What JB98 said.
:cool:

Who ****ing cares? We're trying to win a championship in 2007.

A. Cavatica
04-29-2007, 10:11 PM
Why on earth wouldn't you give him an opportunity to grow PHG? Please, give me one good reason for completely shutting him out of AB, giving the job to Erstad despite Anderson winning the "competition", and assuming that BA's first 400 AB or so are his ceiling.

I don't agree with it, but I think JB98 just answered your question. The Sox are trying to win this year; Erstad's career track record is better than BA's; and Ozzie wants the lower-risk, lower-reward player because management would blame Erstad for not producing, instead of Ozzie if Anderson didn't produce. It's about job security.

Craig Grebeck
04-29-2007, 10:14 PM
We would have won the world series last season if our pitching showed up. Erstad's "track record" shows that he is a bench player. If this is the attitude of the organization/manager, we are not heading in a good direction.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-29-2007, 10:14 PM
I don't agree with it, but I think JB98 just answered your question. The Sox are trying to win this year; Erstad's career track record is better than BA's; and Ozzie wants the lower-risk, lower-reward player because management would blame Erstad for not producing, instead of Ozzie if Anderson didn't produce. It's about job security.

Oh, that Ozzie! Always covering his ass!!!

:roflmao:

JB98
04-29-2007, 10:16 PM
I don't agree with it, but I think JB98 just answered your question. The Sox are trying to win this year; Erstad's career track record is better than BA's; and Ozzie wants the lower-risk, lower-reward player because management would blame Erstad for not producing, instead of Ozzie if Anderson didn't produce. It's about job security.

No, it's about winning this year. Ozzie has made more than enough money in the game of baseball. I guarantee you our manager is not the least bit concerned about losing his job.

Craig Grebeck
04-29-2007, 10:17 PM
No, it's about winning this year. Ozzie has made more than enough money in the game of baseball. I guarantee you our manager is not the least bit concerned about losing his job.
And he wants to win so badly this season that he has put his worst hitter in the position to receive the most AB.

Vernam
04-29-2007, 10:18 PM
This is what happens when football fans pose as baseball fans.:rolling:

I think a lot of the uproar over BA has nothing to do with BA and everything to do with Ozzie Guillen. Some fans don't like Ozzie -- to put it mildly -- and the Anderson situation gives them a vehicle to express that.I think you're onto something . . . Someone needs to start a poll to weed out the ROHs. They're the ones who think our farm system is brimming with championship-level talent that's withering on the vine because our only World Series-winning manager since Pants Rowland is a meanie.

Vernam

Grzegorz
04-29-2007, 10:18 PM
and Ozzie wants the lower-risk, lower-reward player because management would blame Erstad for not producing, instead of Ozzie if Anderson didn't produce. It's about job security.

Quite a change in philosophy by Ozzie considering he ran out a corner outfielder/third baseman into center field last year.

What did this action do? It cost his team some games, cost a valuable asset some of his confidence, and basically wore down his starting third baseman by the end of last season.

Yep, he'd better be concerned about job security...

Rob190
04-29-2007, 10:21 PM
And he wants to win so badly this season that he has put his worst hitter in the position to receive the most AB.

I thought that Anderson was sent to AAA.

Patrick134
04-29-2007, 10:23 PM
We would have won the world series last season if our pitching showed up. Erstad's "track record" shows that he is a bench player. If this is the attitude of the organization/manager, we are not heading in a good direction.


If Erstad's track record makes him a so-called "bench player", then BAAA's ack record must make him a "bench maker". Although i disagree with that , because BAAA doesn't seem too handy with wood.

UserNameBlank
04-29-2007, 10:23 PM
People still aren't grasping the concept of activities behind the scene that none of us know about. Someone sees a quote by Ozzie or Anderson or whoever and interprets it to agree with whatever bizarre pre-conceived opinion they have. Ozzie isn't jerking Anderson around for spite. KW wouldn't allow it. As mentioned earlier, Anderson was pegged as "The Man" and KW made moves to put him in that position. KW is just going to let all his work go to waste because Ozzie doesn't like him? C'mon. Anderson's struggles in the first year are not enough to justify the events that have transpired.
I agree with most of this, but if Ozzi's personal feelings on Brian have not been what has affected his playing time, what is it then?

Kenny has said he puts together a roster and lets Ozzie manage it, so even though it would seem strange for him to let Ozzie's feelings of Brian affect his playing time, it wouldn't be against his philosophy.

What has been happening? Has Brian been striking out in batting practice or something? Has he been taking Manny Ramirez-like "breaks" here and there? Has he been ripping his teammates and/or refusing to support them? If anything like that had been happening, I'm sure there would be an article on it and BA would have been sent down much earlier.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-29-2007, 10:23 PM
LOL. I meant to say he's in the WSI Bizarro Hall of Fame. This is a place where many below average players roam chasing down balls in CF with ease.


What is so bizarre about it? Brian Anderson someday playing center field between Shoeless Joe and Minnie Minoso? I'd believe it...

:wink:

JB98
04-29-2007, 10:23 PM
I thought that Anderson was sent to AAA.

ZING!!!! Couldn't have said it better myself!

Tragg
04-29-2007, 10:24 PM
No, it's about winning this year.

I could see that if Erstad was hitting 9th. But Ozzie immediately put this slap hitter in the 2 hole.

I could see it if Cintron didn't DH. And if Iguchi hadn't been demoted to the 8 hole to make room for Erstad. And if...

In summary, I think this year is about Ozzie-offense, which I'm sure Ozzie thinks is winning offense. But so far, not so good.

ilsox7
04-29-2007, 10:26 PM
What has been happening? Has Brian been striking out in batting practice or something? Has he been taking Manny Ramirez-like "breaks" here and there? Has he been ripping his teammates and/or refusing to support them? If anything like that had been happening, I'm sure there would be an article on it and BA would have been sent down much earlier.

Well, there was one mention a couple weeks ago about Sox coaches being miffed that a "young player" was watching a television show before a game instead of watching film. The general public does not hear about 95% of the stuff that goes on behind the scenes. That is how it is intended to be. Most people here seem to be dead set on forming an opinion while knowing almost none of the facts.

JB98
04-29-2007, 10:28 PM
I agree with most of this, but if Ozzi's personal feelings on Brian have not been what has affected his playing time, what is it then?

Kenny has said he puts together a roster and lets Ozzie manage it, so even though it would seem strange for him to let Ozzie's feelings of Brian affect his playing time, it wouldn't be against his philosophy.

What has been happening? Has Brian been striking out in batting practice or something? Has he been taking Manny Ramirez-like "breaks" here and there? Has he been ripping his teammates and/or refusing to support them? If anything like that had been happening, I'm sure there would be an article on it and BA would have been sent down much earlier.

Brian is headed back to the minors because he's been having poor at-bats. He hasn't been able to adapt to a reserve role, and he's not helping the team. That's my opinion based on what I've seen on the field. I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, although there seem to be a number of people here who think they do.

itsnotrequired
04-29-2007, 10:29 PM
I agree with most of this, but if Ozzi's personal feelings on Brian have not been what has affected his playing time, what is it then?

Kenny has said he puts together a roster and lets Ozzie manage it, so even though it would seem strange for him to let Ozzie's feelings of Brian affect his playing time, it wouldn't be against his philosophy.

What has been happening? Has Brian been striking out in batting practice or something? Has he been taking Manny Ramirez-like "breaks" here and there? Has he been ripping his teammates and/or refusing to support them? If anything like that had been happening, I'm sure there would be an article on it and BA would have been sent down much earlier.

Ozzie can feel however he wants. My point was that KW seems to have been on board with Ozzie's feelings. Anderson tore it up in ST and then is inexplicably benched. It just seems to point to some incident or series of events that landed Anderson in the doghouse, big time. Not just Ozzie's doghouse but the organization's doghouse. Wasn't there a report a couple weeks ago about some players getting chewed out for watching TV before a game instead of film of the opposing pitcher? Was Anderson in this group? If so, what he hell is he thinking?

Discussing what could be the reasons is part of what a messageboard is all about but when people make "definite" claims without knowing the full story, that's where it gets goofy.

BoysMom3
04-29-2007, 10:29 PM
I haven't read all of the posts in the numerous threads about Brian Anderson, but I think that not only is there a vocal contingent that hates Darin Erstad, but the most vehement pro-Anderson folks are also tremendously anti-Ozzie.

In other words, I think a lot of the uproar over BA has nothing to do with BA and everything to do with Ozzie Guillen. Some fans don't like Ozzie -- to put it mildly -- and the Anderson situation gives them a vehicle to express that.

I might be wrong, but that's the sense I get from what I have read.

On the topic of Erstad, I am almost as enamored with him as Hawk is. :tongue: Erstad might even make me forget that other centerfielder, what was his name -- Aaron something-or-other.

I'm a huge fan of BA. I'm happy someone finally asked what an REH is because I was about to ask. I've said it here before - I'm not happy about Brian not playing, but if this is the way it has to be, I will admit that I have been pleased with Erstad's playing. He's doing a fine job, and he hustles all the time - I like that. I'm not and never have been an Ozzie hater either. I don't like the way he's benching BA all the time at all, but I'm not a hater.

I'm glad Brian was sent down because at least now he'll have at bats and can improve his hitting. I have felt so disappointed each time someone else has been hurt, and still, BA sits the bench.

I also talked to someone yesterday who used to play in the minors (up to AAA) and played in big league ST. I asked him about partying in the bigs, because I know it's done in the minors, and he said - well you wouldn't go out every night, but yeah, it shouldn't be a problem if you're getting your job done and you're not getting a bad name for yourself by getting arrested or something stupid like that. That shed some light on it for me because I didn't think it could matter that BA was partying...but if he wasn't where he needed to be offensively, and yet he went out every night (I'm going by what is being said at WSI), I could see that being taken as less than doing everything you can to prove yourself.

Finally, I just want to say that when I saw BA at ST this year, I was very disappointed that he cut off all his long curls. And if he ends up playing for another team he can't be my boyfriend anymore because the Sox are my team. (don't flame me for just being a girl - I know that, and I'm not letting his cuteness affect my judgement, and I'm standing by that.)

balke
04-29-2007, 10:31 PM
Well, there was one mention a couple weeks ago about Sox coaches being miffed that a "young player" was watching a television show before a game instead of watching film. The general public does not hear about 95% of the stuff that goes on behind the scenes. That is how it is intended to be. Most people here seem to be dead set on forming an opinion while knowing almost none of the facts.

So what, Konerko and Buehrle were watching the Yanks during MB's no-no. And they were actually playing.

I'm glad to see Brian go down, more will be answered in the Minors for now with him. From one side, I can see Ozzie thinking Erstad is his CFer, and Sweeney is going to play a better LF with a left-handed bat in the line-up. I believe Sweeney has a better arm, am I correct? Now BA just has to take whatever knowledge he got from the majors, apply it in Charlotte, and win a spot back on the roster.


Hopefully no more threads about him til then. Hopefully he does hit better than ever down there. Hopefully he will be back with the Sox. Until then, so long.

itsnotrequired
04-29-2007, 10:31 PM
I could see that if Erstad was hitting 9th. But Ozzie immediately put this slap hitter in the 2 hole.

I could see it if Cintron didn't DH. And if Iguchi hadn't been demoted to the 8 hole to make room for Erstad. And if...

In summary, I think this year is about Ozzie-offense, which I'm sure Ozzie thinks is winning offense. But so far, not so good.

Ozzie is making lineups without his starting LF or DH. The other starters need days off from time to time so silly looking lineups will be par for the course until Pods and Thome are back.

JB98
04-29-2007, 10:33 PM
I could see that if Erstad was hitting 9th. But Ozzie immediately put this slap hitter in the 2 hole.

I could see it if Cintron didn't DH. And if Iguchi hadn't been demoted to the 8 hole to make room for Erstad. And if...

In summary, I think this year is about Ozzie-offense, which I'm sure Ozzie thinks is winning offense. But so far, not so good.

The construction of the lineup is a completely different issue. I've made it known that I like Iguchi in the No. 2 hole, and at the start of the year, I was arguing that Erstad should bat eighth. But since Pods went down and Erstad moved into the leadoff spot, Darin has been our best hitter. I don't see anybody else hitting the ball hard consistently. I really have no beef with Erstad being at the top of the order at this time. Who the hell else are you going to put there? And as for this offense, the middle of the order has had an unproductive month of April. I'm not sure that's worth worrying about, but it's been a bigger problem than the 1-2 spots in the batting order, IMO.

Rob190
04-29-2007, 10:33 PM
Brian is headed back to the minors because he's been having poor at-bats. He hasn't been able to adapt to a reserve role, and he's not helping the team. That's my opinion based on what I've seen on the field. I don't know what goes on behind the scenes, although there seem to be a number of people here who think they do.

I agree. If Brian was giving the Sox good at bats, that would be one thing. Right now he's jumping away from inside pitches. In AAA he can at leaast get some quality at bats and then come up when he is ready.

gobears1987
04-29-2007, 10:33 PM
This is probably a dumb question, but with Thome going on the DL, can't they DH Crede and call up Fields? It would hopefully help Crede's back, which is always a worry even if it hasn't truly hampered him in the past year.

gobears1987
04-29-2007, 10:34 PM
Ozzie is making lineups without his starting LF or DH. The other starters need days off from time to time so silly looking lineups will be par for the course until Pods and Thome are back.
And I agree that Ozzie should continue to make the "silly looking lineups" so long as it means that regulars get the rest they need to stay sharp and healthy.

Ozzie's policy of giving breaks to players is a big reason why we rarely have injury issues on the team.

veeter
04-29-2007, 10:37 PM
This is good for him...let him get some at bats. That wasn't fair to his development to play once every 2 weeks up here. Unfortunately, as long as Ozzie is around I don't think any of our young players are going to do any progressing at the big league level.The reason this may be true, is because the Sox bar has been set so high. Hawk has never been more correct when he says, Brian's problem is that he was thrown into the starting line-up of a world cahmpionship ball club. So, Ozzie has his own pressures to win also. I just would have liked to have seen Erstad in left with BA in center. Brian will be back though.

UserNameBlank
04-29-2007, 10:37 PM
Ozzie can feel however he wants. My point was that KW seems to have been on board with Ozzie's feelings. Anderson tore it up in ST and then is inexplicably benched. It just seems to point to some incident or series of events that landed Anderson in the doghouse, big time. Not just Ozzie's doghouse but the organization's doghouse. Wasn't there a report a couple weeks ago about some players getting chewed out for watching TV before a game instead of film of the opposing pitcher? Was Anderson in this group? If so, what he hell is he thinking?

Discussing what could be the reasons is part of what a messageboard is all about but when people make "definite" claims without knowing the full story, that's where it gets goofy.
If Brian got into KW's doghouse it must have been early because it didn't take long for Ozzie to name Erstad the starting CF. I think if KW didn't like something about BA he would have started off in Charlotte and Terrero would have made the club. If Kenny doesn't like a guy you can bet that player won't be on the team in any role.

If Brian was watching tv instead of film of a pitcher, especially if it was recently, that is not a good move by Brian. Still, I can't blame the guy for being frustrated because he probably wasn't playing anyway. And if he was going to come in late in the game, there's a good chance he wouldn't even get an AB, and if he did and the film was of the starter, he wouldn't have faced the guy anyway.

I actually give BA props for not going to the media and demanding a trade like some players do, because that would force the Sox to make a move from a bad position.

gobears1987
04-29-2007, 10:38 PM
It's about time. Good for BA, hopefully he will raise his trade value and get moved to another organization where he will have a real chance and he brings us an offensive player we can use.

Good luck to BA, and **** you Ozzie Guillen.
You Sir are a :dumbass:

Go get off the bandwagon at Clark and Addison. There is no room for you here.

All Ozzie has done is win us our first World Championship in 88 years. All BAAA has done for us is strike out over 100 times in only 400 ABs.

You are the first person in my three years on this site to end up on my ignore list. Even Jeremyb1 wasn't that dumb.

DickAllen72
04-29-2007, 10:38 PM
This is probably a dumb question, but with Thome going on the DL, can't they DH Crede and call up Fields? It would hopefully help Crede's back, which is always a worry even if it hasn't truly hampered him in the past year.
It makes no sense to start Field's arbitration clock already just for him to fill in for two weeks. Plus, he's not major league ready yet. In fact, he's off to a bad start and I read on another site that he's been looking "lazy" lately in the field.

gobears1987
04-29-2007, 10:40 PM
It makes no sense to start Field's arbitration clock already just for him to fill in for two weeks. Plus, he's not major league ready yet. In fact, he's off to a bad start and I read on another site that he's been looking "lazy" lately in the field.Like I said, it was probably a dumb question on my part. I haven't been following Charlotte that closely this year.

Just a random question, do September call-ups start the arbitration clock? I know we called him up when the rosters expanded.

ilsox7
04-29-2007, 10:40 PM
So what, Konerko and Buehrle were watching the Yanks during MB's no-no. And they were actually playing.



For starters, AJ and MB are on record talking about how much they prepare for each ballgame. During the game, it's normal to relax, especially when you're going well and have prepared. Next, when you're a young player trying to break into a line-up/keep your roster spot, it's probably a good thing to be prepared and impress your coaches. Finally, it's quite possible that BA's lack of success is a direct result of his lack of preparation. Do any of us know this? Not at all. Because we aren't there, which has been my point all along.

JB98
04-29-2007, 10:41 PM
This is probably a dumb question, but with Thome going on the DL, can't they DH Crede and call up Fields? It would hopefully help Crede's back, which is always a worry even if it hasn't truly hampered him in the past year.

If Crede's back was bothering him, maybe they would consider it. But if Joe's healthy, it doesn't make sense. Crede is far superior defensively when compared to Fields. Right now, Jermaine Dye is the guy who is battling a nagging injury. If you're going to DH a guy who normally plays everyday in the field, I think JD is that guy. Hence, the need for another outfielder.

DickAllen72
04-29-2007, 10:41 PM
Like I said, it was probably a dumb question on my part. I haven't been following Charlotte that closely this year.
Not a dumb question at all.

CLR01
04-29-2007, 10:45 PM
You Sir are a :dumbass:

Go get off the bandwagon at Clark and Addison. There is no room for you here.

All Ozzie has done is win us our first World Championship in 88 years. All BAAA has done for us is strike out over 100 times in only 400 ABs.

You are the first person in my three years on this site to end up on my ignore list. Even Jeremyb1 wasn't that dumb.

And now you find yourself on mine for a week. Mine is better that yours. Enjoy.

BoysMom3
04-29-2007, 10:47 PM
For starters, AJ and MB are on record talking about how much they prepare for each ballgame. During the game, it's normal to relax, especially when you're going well and have prepared. Next, when you're a young player trying to break into a line-up/keep your roster spot, it's probably a good thing to be prepared and impress your coaches. Finally, it's quite possible that BA's lack of success is a direct result of his lack of preparation. Do any of us know this? Not at all. Because we aren't there, which has been my point all along.

Plus I heard Buehrle say after the game that he was watching the other game on tv to distract himself from getting nervous.

I will also agree with everyone who has said that we're not there to see most of what actually goes on. And I will also admit that after Erstad's homer (was it yesterday, all my days are getting jumbled together), I was really thinking that I'm liking him better all the time. BA fan yes. Erstad hater, not so much. In fact, I wish every player on the team would hustle down to first base the way Erstad does until they're actually called out because you just never know.

DickAllen72
04-29-2007, 10:47 PM
Just a random question, do September call-ups start the arbitration clock?
No.

UserNameBlank
04-29-2007, 10:50 PM
You Sir are a :dumbass:

Go get off the bandwagon at Clark and Addison. There is no room for you here.

All Ozzie has done is win us our first World Championship in 88 years. All BAAA has done for us is strike out over 100 times in only 400 ABs.

You are the first person in my three years on this site to end up on my ignore list. Even Jeremyb1 wasn't that dumb.
I remember when Ozzie hit that huge grandslam against the Astros. Man, that was awesome!

Oh, wait...

Bandwagon fans don't get frustrated by managers. They love them and defend them. They also make comments like BA sucks and stick players who haven't reached their potential with stupid nicknames like "BAAA."

JB98
04-29-2007, 10:53 PM
Plus I heard Buehrle say after the game that he was watching the other game on tv to distract himself from getting nervous.

I will also agree with everyone who has said that we're not there to see most of what actually goes on. And I will also admit that after Erstad's homer (was it yesterday, all my days are getting jumbled together), I was really thinking that I'm liking him better all the time. BA fan yes. Erstad hater, not so much. In fact, I wish every player on the team would hustle down to first base the way Erstad does until they're actually called out because you just never know.

Sweeney was busting his ass down the line on groundouts today too. It's a small thing, and at the big-league level, it probably only makes a difference one out of 100 times. But still, it's nice to see the effort.

UserNameBlank
04-29-2007, 10:56 PM
Sweeney was busting his ass down the line on groundouts today too. It's a small thing, and at the big-league level, it probably only makes a difference one out of 100 times. But still, it's nice to see the effort.
I like Ryan. I really hope the Sox are done with Pods by now and go with him as the everyday LF. Actually, I'd rather see JD in LF with Sweeney in right.

GlassSox
04-29-2007, 10:58 PM
I find it interesting how people come to such strong conclusions without knowing much information. No one at WSI has any clue about 95% of the things that happen behind the scenes with the White Sox. And the little information that has come out has pointed toward BA having an attitude/preparation/work ethic problem in the organization's eyes. Who knows if this is actually the case or if this is actually how the organization feels. We certainly do not have enough information to know.

But if BA does have those problems, then I have no issue with not playing him and sending him down.

I agree. All this arm chair managing without all the inside information is just plain wrong.

Craig Grebeck
04-29-2007, 10:59 PM
Brian has busted his ass down the line a lot this year too. At the end of the day, there are things that matter a lot more. We like the effort, but I doubt anyone wants to see Pauly or JD give it their all down the line on a routine grounder.

JB98
04-29-2007, 11:01 PM
I like Ryan. I really hope the Sox are done with Pods by now and go with him as the everyday LF. Actually, I'd rather see JD in LF with Sweeney in right.

Sweeney has a two-week audition until Thome comes back. He'll have to tear it up real good in order to stick with the Sox. I like Sweeney as well, but I'd be surprised if we see him in a major role over the long haul this year.

Patrick134
04-29-2007, 11:03 PM
I remember when Ozzie hit that huge grandslam against the Astros. Man, that was awesome!

Oh, wait...

Bandwagon fans don't get frustrated by managers. They love them and defend them. They also make comments like BA sucks and stick players who haven't reached their potential with stupid nicknames like "BAAA."

It beats a nickname like "BAA", but let's see how these next few months in Charlotte go first.

Jjav829
04-29-2007, 11:03 PM
Ozzie Jr. is no class act himself. The apple definitely doesn't fall far from the tree.

As someone else said here, the argument that Ozzie can do no wrong because he won the WS is getting old and needs to stop. He has to do a better job with young players plain and simple and not let his son or anyone else influence what is best for the team.

No one is saying Ozzie can do no wrong. Ozzie makes a lot of mistakes. Ozzie is far from perfect. He mishandles the bullpen. He mishandles his lineup. No one is saying that Ozzie doesn't screw up at times or that you can't criticize him. Go ahead and criticize Ozzie for his use of the bullpen. Criticize his lineups. Hell, criticize his handling of BA.

There's nothing wrong with any of this. What is wrong is the venom people spew when criticizing Ozzie because he thinks that a young player should have to *gasp* earn his playing time, rather than being handed 600 at-bats every year. It's not just that people disagree with Ozzie's handling of BA, but some seem to think Ozzie is the devil because he won't play some 2nd year player who hasn't shown a damn thing at the plate at the major league level. It seems like some people at this point don't give a damn about what helps the Sox the most, but just want to see BA succeed so they can further criticize Ozzie, which is quite ridiculous.

JB98
04-29-2007, 11:04 PM
Brian has busted his ass down the line a lot this year too. At the end of the day, there are things that matter a lot more. We like the effort, but I doubt anyone wants to see Pauly or JD give it their all down the line on a routine grounder.

Of course there are things that matter a lot more. Like production, for example. I'm glad Sweeney is giving max effort, but I'm 99.9 percent sure he'll be joining Anderson in the Charlotte outfield when Thome comes back.

thomas35forever
04-29-2007, 11:04 PM
It's probably the best thing for Anderson instead of just wasting away on the bench all season long. I hope things improve for him down there. At least he'll get to play every day.

Jjav829
04-29-2007, 11:06 PM
I remember when Ozzie hit that huge grandslam against the Astros. Man, that was awesome!

Oh, wait...

Bandwagon fans don't get frustrated by managers. They love them and defend them. They also make comments like BA sucks and stick players who haven't reached their potential with stupid nicknames like "BAAA."

Haha, the guy who joined the month after we won the World Series is defining bandwagon fan for us.

So what's the definition for a person who refuses to accept what they've actually seen happen and continues to fall back upon what a player did at a lesser level 2 years ago? :dunno:

And for the record, I've used "BAAAA" because it fits better. Anderson has already shown he's too good for AAA, but hasn't shown he's good enough for the major league level, meaning he's basically a AAAA player at this point. :wink:

Edit: I actually misread your join date. It was 2006, not 2005. So that's a year and a month after we won the World Series. Even worse...:smile:

JB98
04-29-2007, 11:09 PM
No one is saying Ozzie can do no wrong. Ozzie makes a lot of mistakes. Ozzie is far from perfect. He mishandles the bullpen. He mishandles his lineup. No one is saying that Ozzie doesn't screw up at times or that you can't criticize him. Go ahead and criticize Ozzie for his use of the bullpen. Criticize his lineups. Hell, criticize his handling of BA.

There's nothing wrong with any of this. What is wrong is the venom people spew when criticizing Ozzie because he thinks that a young player should have to *gasp* earn his playing time, rather than being handed 600 at-bats every year. It's not just that people disagree with Ozzie's handling of BA, but some seem to think Ozzie is the devil because he won't play some 2nd year player who hasn't shown a damn thing at the plate at the major league level. It seems like some people at this point don't give a damn about what helps the Sox the most, but just want to see BA succeed so they can further criticize Ozzie, which is quite ridiculous.

Around here, being "right" and saying "I told you so" are the two most important things. When BA had those two starts earlier this week, I would have preferred to see him go 6-for-8 with 2 HRs and earn some more playing time. But the reality is he went 1-for-8 and looked overmatched in five or six of those ABs. It just seems so obvious to me that BA-to-Charlotte is the right thing to do. Both for the player in question and the club.

CLR01
04-29-2007, 11:10 PM
It seems like some people at this point don't give a damn about what helps the Sox the most, but just want to see BA succeed so they can further criticize Ozzie, which is quite ridiculous.

Anderson succeeding helps the Sox the most, this year and in the future. You can have it both ways. I, for one, hope this isn't a goodbye forever but a see you a little bit deal.

JB98
04-29-2007, 11:12 PM
Anderson succeeding helps the Sox the most, this year and in the future. You can have it both ways. I, for one, hope this isn't a goodbye forever but a see you a little bit deal.

Well, if something happens to Erstad, we'll need Anderson. I hope that doesn't come to pass, but if it does, we all need to hope Brian finds some answers while he's in Charlotte.

SABRSox
04-29-2007, 11:13 PM
No one is saying Ozzie can do no wrong. Ozzie makes a lot of mistakes. Ozzie is far from perfect. He mishandles the bullpen. He mishandles his lineup. No one is saying that Ozzie doesn't screw up at times or that you can't criticize him. Go ahead and criticize Ozzie for his use of the bullpen. Criticize his lineups. Hell, criticize his handling of BA.

There's nothing wrong with any of this. What is wrong is the venom people spew when criticizing Ozzie because he thinks that a young player should have to *gasp* earn his playing time, rather than being handed 600 at-bats every year. It's not just that people disagree with Ozzie's handling of BA, but some seem to think Ozzie is the devil because he won't play some 2nd year player who hasn't shown a damn thing at the plate at the major league level. It seems like some people at this point don't give a damn about what helps the Sox the most, but just want to see BA succeed so they can further criticize Ozzie, which is quite ridiculous.

I'd agree that some of the "Free Brian Anderson" movement are taking it a bit far. I'm not going to root against the White Sox for the sake of BA. That's just nonsense.

But I do believe that Ozzie was wrong for not giving BA the starting CF spot. He was the best defensive choice, and from what I saw at the end of '06 and in Spring Training, Brian was certainly the better offensive choice between him and Erstad. And when I ask, "Why is Erstad starting over BA?" and the answer I get is, "Erstad is a grinder," well that doesn't work for me.

ilsox7
04-29-2007, 11:13 PM
Around here, being "right" and saying "I told you so" are the two most important things. When BA had those two starts earlier this week, I would have preferred to see him go 6-for-8 with 2 HRs and earn some more playing time. But the reality is he went 1-for-8 and looked overmatched in five or six of those ABs. It just seems so obvious to me that BA-to-Charlotte is the right thing to do. Both for the player in question and the club.

I was rooting for an 8-for-8 with 8 HRs. Rooting for anything less means you're just a hater. :D:

BoysMom3
04-29-2007, 11:17 PM
Brian has busted his ass down the line a lot this year too. At the end of the day, there are things that matter a lot more. We like the effort, but I doubt anyone wants to see Pauly or JD give it their all down the line on a routine grounder.

I'll agree with that CG. I was just trying to make the point that although I'm a huge BA fan, I don't hate Erstad, and I have appreciated his hustle.

Jjav829
04-29-2007, 11:17 PM
Anderson succeeding helps the Sox the most, this year and in the future. You can have it both ways. I, for one, hope this isn't a goodbye forever but a see you a little bit deal.

Sure it does. I wanted Anderson to win the starting job and look 10 times better than he did last season. But he didn't. Oh well. Erstad hasn't been great, but he's done a decent job and hit .261 for the month of April, including a well over .300 average in the leadoff spot. I'm not losing sleep over Anderson's situation, nor am I going to start thinking of Ozzie as the reincarnation of Stalin because he doesn't think all that highly of Anderson.

JB98
04-29-2007, 11:20 PM
I'd agree that some of the "Free Brian Anderson" movement are taking it a bit far. I'm not going to root against the White Sox for the sake of BA. That's just nonsense.

But I do believe that Ozzie was wrong for not giving BA the starting CF spot. He was the best defensive choice, and from what I saw at the end of '06 and in Spring Training, Brian was certainly the better offensive choice between him and Erstad. And when I ask, "Why is Erstad starting over BA?" and the answer I get is, "Erstad is a grinder," well that doesn't work for me.

So, Erstad's performance the first month of the season hasn't convinced you? There are only a handful of position players I'm pleased with through the first 23 games. Erstad is one of them. Him, Thome, Uribe and Ozuna. In the last 10 days, Erstad has had five hits that either tied the game or gave the Sox the lead, four came in the sixth inning or later. There's a pretty good chance this club would be 3-5 games below .500 right now if Erstad wasn't getting regular playing time.

UserNameBlank
04-29-2007, 11:20 PM
Haha, the guy who joined the month after we won the World Series is defining bandwagon fan for us.

So what's the definition for a person who refuses to accept what they've actually seen happen and continues to fall back upon what a player did at a lesser level 2 years ago? :dunno:

And for the record, I've used "BAAAA" because it fits better. Anderson has already shown he's too good for AAA, but hasn't shown he's good enough for the major league level, meaning he's basically a AAAA player at this point. :wink:

Edit: I actually misread your join date. It was 2006, not 2005. So that's a year and a month after we won the World Series. Even worse...:smile:
I think this is like my 3rd or 4th username and have been here since I think early 2003.

Umm, you can't really say much about Brian except for what he did in the minors. The Sox said he wasn't ready before 2006 and played him anyway, knowing they were going to get bad results, and he hasn't gotten an opportunity to improve this year. If that makes him a AAAA player than I must have missed something somewhere.

Besides, hitting 23 doubles, a triple, and 8 home runs in 365 AB's shows pretty decent potential for a rookie CF who only hit .225 with virtually no plate discpline, does it not?

Craig Grebeck
04-29-2007, 11:23 PM
Sure it does. I wanted Anderson to win the starting job and look 10 times better than he did last season. But he didn't.
He did, but don't tell Ozzie.

oeo
04-29-2007, 11:24 PM
So are they going to give Sweeney the at bats that they werent giving Anderson?

I'm not sure why people are so excited to see Sweeney up, he hasn't proven any more than BA.

You're right, Sweeney hasn't proven to be a complete waste at the plate.

Sweeney looked better today than I think I've ever seen Brian look.

He did, but don't tell Ozzie.

What's different? :?: If it was his spring, he had a great spring last year too...we all know how that translated.

Jjav829
04-29-2007, 11:29 PM
I think this is like my 3rd or 4th username and have been here since I think early 2003.

Umm, you can't really say much about Brian except for what he did in the minors. The Sox said he wasn't ready before 2006 and played him anyway, knowing they were going to get bad results, and he hasn't gotten an opportunity to improve this year. If that makes him a AAAA player than I must have missed something somewhere.

Besides, hitting 23 doubles, a triple, and 8 home runs in 365 AB's shows pretty decent potential for a rookie CF who only hit .225 with virtually no plate discpline, does it not?

You used the right word - decent. That's about all he showed. I don't know about you, but nothing about BA's rookie season mad me say "Wow, he's going to be something special." From the numbers, to the actual at-bats, he didn't show much. And yes, he was only a rookie. I'm not saying he isn't capable of improving. But based on the words some people are directing toward Ozzie because of his handling of BA, you'd think BA is a guaranteed second coming of Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron and Willie Mays wrapped into one.

HotelWhiteSox
04-29-2007, 11:38 PM
BA to AAA is a good move, he's young/developing, he's needs as many ABs as possible. He's great defensively, if he can get anything around even .250 on offense he's an asset. I would love to see BA get the ABs here, but this is contention for a championship, and nothing else can be done if the manager likes other options. There could be an argument, because with Pods out one would think the replacements aren't that much more consistent on offense and it doesn't matter as much since he's your #9 hitter and you're starting someone who was built to pinch hit, but again, no one else is the manager.

Good luck to BA, get your at bats, and come back strong.

TheOldRoman
04-29-2007, 11:40 PM
Word on the street is that fighting with the managers son at a bar is a bad career move.
Did that actually happen or is it some joke you are going for? I haven't heard anything about it in the media or on message boards.

UserNameBlank
04-29-2007, 11:42 PM
You used the right word - decent. That's about all he showed. I don't know about you, but nothing about BA's rookie season mad me say "Wow, he's going to be something special." From the numbers, to the actual at-bats, he didn't show much. And yes, he was only a rookie. I'm not saying he isn't capable of improving. But based on the words some people are directing toward Ozzie because of his handling of BA, you'd think BA is a guaranteed second coming of Babe Ruth, Hank Aaron and Willie Mays wrapped into one.
I don't like Ozzie's management of Brian because it doesn't make sense.

We have only one guy in the organization right now who is young and capable of playing a very good CF. Erstad could go down at any time, Sweeney is better suited to the corners, Owens is really a nonfactor, and Terrero is a journeyman.

If the Sox came out and said that Brian was not ready to assume the duties of an everyday starter in CF during ST, that would be one thing. If they wanted to let him work on his approach in Triple A that is fine. Make Erstad the starting CF and be done with it.

But, Walker and KW both said he had improved. The Sox, at least during ST, did not saying anything to the effect of Brian being unable to start. That was all Ozzie's call. If you are going to carry a prospect, especially a No. 1 pick who is supposed to be a big part of your future, you have to play him somewhere. Terrero was and still is fully capable of going out there once a week and playing defense with a solid arm to go with it.

The thing that pisses me off as a Sox fan with this situation is that it seems like the GM and the manager are on different pages. Either go with the future now or do it next year, but stick with it already. Bringing up Brian to sit on the bench does nothing for anyone. Ditto for Sweeney. If he doesn't play regularly, then send him the hell down and call up Owens as a pinch runner. Either that or go out and get someone like Eduardo Perez to provide at least some pop.

I never said I expect Brian to put up huge numbers at the major league level. As good as he is in center, he doesn't need to put up big numbers. If Brian could regularly put up numbers like Rowand in '05 that would be great. I think he's going to turn out to be like Torii Hunter offensively one day, but he doesn't even have to do that.

munchman33
04-29-2007, 11:42 PM
Besides, hitting 23 doubles, a triple, and 8 home runs in 365 AB's shows pretty decent potential for a rookie CF who only hit .225 with virtually no plate discpline, does it not?

Actually, it sounds like he's the next Chris Singleton.

TheOldRoman
04-29-2007, 11:51 PM
Ozzie Jr. is no class act himself. The apple definitely doesn't fall far from the tree.

As someone else said here, the argument that Ozzie can do no wrong because he won the WS is getting old and needs to stop. He has to do a better job with young players plain and simple and not let his son or anyone else influence what is best for the team.
Yes, and nobody knows class more than JoseCanseco6969.:rolleyes:
But we shouldn't be surprised. You come off more like a shirtless drunk shouting obscenities after strikeouts than someone keeping score. Your posts read like the reactionary ramblings of a slovenly frat boy. Guzzle, guzzle, bong hit. But I am amazed you were able to pull yourself away from posts about drinking exploits and saying "OMG, Chips is such a loser" to talk about baseball. Please, tell us more about having class.

balke
04-30-2007, 12:03 AM
Sweeney looked better today than I think I've ever seen Brian look.


He was 0-2 with a walk. I'm surprised we ever called up Brian in the first place with that kind of production. Do you think we should cut Mackowiak when Pods comes back?

Domeshot17
04-30-2007, 12:21 AM
The difference between Sweeney and Anderson right now is Sweeney is not over matched. You can see it in Brian's approach, he is clearly over matched at this level. He doesn't have good at bats, and just swings hoping he makes contact. Atleast when Sweeney is up there, you feel like something good can happen, not hoping something bad doesn't.


What no one is considering, however, is what this may do to Sweeney and Anderson. They are really close friends from all accounts, and if Brian is able to put all hard feelings a side and hope his friend can do the job he couldn't, then good for him.


This is WHAT IS BEST FOR BOTH THE SOX AND BRIAN. Im not an Anderson hater or supporter, Im a White Sox fan. I don't care if its Anderson or Erstad or Owens or freakin Gustavo Molina, if they hit and help the team, then I like them. Anderson was suppose to get close to half the season to prove himself, and it became apparent to Coaches Scouts Kenny, and even all of us, leaving him up for here for a few more months was going to do nothing for him or us. He needs to go down to triple A, get some confidence back, then re-learn how to hit and take pitches, get in a groove, and try and redefine himself.

Brian Anderson is at the crossroads of his career. Sadly for him, we aren't the marlins and don't have 2 years of meaningless baseball to give him a chance to work all his **** out. He has to do that on his own, and because he couldn't do it up here, he now has to do it in Charlotte. You can blame Ozzie all you want, but its not like Anderson had been making productive outs. Anderson had a good 2 1/2 month stretch where he was decent last year, but did not finish strong. They sent him to winterball, problems. Now, after a decent Spring, you hear things are coming up about his attitude and work ethic. Anderson has to get his head together, and he can be back. Ozzie gave him chance after chance. He sucked last year, and got out played this spring. As good as his D is, there just is not room on an AL roster for a guy who can't hit his weight.

I guess what Im trying to say in a better way, is look at John Danks. He went out, earned himself a spot. He hasn't had a ton of success at this level yet, and his numbers aren't great, but he is showing us a lot. He changes speeds well, stays collected, and can be dominant. So he be winless with an ERA in the 5's, but there is a lot of reason to be excited things won't stay this way. After a year+ of Anderson, that excitement isn't as high.

WhiteSox5187
04-30-2007, 12:32 AM
This has been said about a hundred thousand times, but this is a good move for both parties. Brian just isn't the player that can come in once a week and give you good at bats, not yet anyway, he needs to play everyday. He'll do this (of course) in Triple A. Someone pointed out that we did this with Rowand a few years ago, and it worked out for him. It will work out for BA too. He'll be back.

BanditJimmy
04-30-2007, 12:45 AM
I think what's being lost here is to recognize the complete failure this farm system has been in producing OF talent, that's what bugs me even more.

Kenny needs to be concerned about this if he wants to stay true to the plan of not "getting old and expensive."

The last solid OF prospect produced by the Sox was Magglio Ordonez who made his debut 10 years ago in 97. Carlos Lee was a converted 3B.


I don't see Anderson ever making it back to the ML club, consider him a bust now. So now it all rests on Sweeney to make something out of a major league career.

2 of the 3 OF in Pods and Dye are FA after this season. The CF (Erstad) is trying to resurrect his career, his future is also up in the air. We might be looking at Kenny spending major $$$ for an entire new OF next season. If that's the case the pitching staff will taking even more hits come next season. Buehrle gone for sure and maybe either Contreras or Garland traded.

Domeshot17
04-30-2007, 12:46 AM
One last thing, lets be fair to Brian too. He came here in a very tough situation. He had to replace a top 4 favorite player on the team to most Sox Fans. Rowand defined Grinder ball. For being the 6th or 7th best hitter, he was a face of this team. Anderson was almost hated because he was thought to make Rowand expandable. A lot of pressure before he even got here. He couldn't handle it. Now, the pressure is all off. He isn't in the paper every other day, isn't being boo'd, he gets to go get this swagger back.

BanditJimmy
04-30-2007, 12:50 AM
Sweeney looked better today than I think I've ever seen Brian look.



0-2 with a walk. 2 off the end of the bat ground outs ....... This considered "looking better?"


Is this ML baseball or Tee-Ball?

What kind of standards are we grading our players by?

I guess the way BA performed here at the big league level, the curve was set extremely low.

nasox
04-30-2007, 01:17 AM
Did that actually happen or is it some joke you are going for? I haven't heard anything about it in the media or on message boards.

I don't think that ever happened. Somebody besides CLR would have heard about it.

chitownhawkfan
04-30-2007, 01:30 AM
Finally BAAA is gone, I have nothing against him, but he isn't a major league player right now. If we were 15 games back I'd love to see him play, but we are playing for a World Series, having BAAA doesn't assist us in any fashion.

Hopefully this will put an end to all of the ROH and REH on this board but I somehow doubt it.

Rob190
04-30-2007, 02:02 AM
0-2 with a walk. 2 off the end of the bat ground outs ....... This considered "looking better?"


Is this ML baseball or Tee-Ball?

What kind of standards are we grading our players by?

I guess the way BA performed here at the big league level, the curve was set extremely low.

Apparently you missed BA's at bats.

CLR01
04-30-2007, 02:55 AM
Apparently you missed BA's at bats.

Apparently so did you. We can have fun with this though. I'll give bandit a chance to look through the games and try to find a game in which Anderson was able to top a 0-2 and a walk performance. If he succeeds, you and OEO take the rest of the season off for being...well, you know... if he fails I'll give him the same treatment. This should be a hard one. Something tells me neither of you have the balls to back up such a stupid statement.:rolleyes:

CLR01
04-30-2007, 03:09 AM
Did that actually happen or is it some joke you are going for? I haven't heard anything about it in the media or on message boards.


Decide for yourself. It doesn't matter what I say you are going to decide whether you believe it happen or it is bull**** anyway. .

IndianWhiteSox
04-30-2007, 05:24 AM
I agree. No one expects him to hit a ton of homers and win MVP awards and make Allstar teams every year, etc. There are some out there though that do expect him to become a decent player and are getting frustrated with the way Ozzie is running the show.

If there is one person in the Sox organization that I trust and put my faith in more than anyone else, it is Kenny Williams. This same guy, who had 9,000,000,000 times more to do with the success of the 2005 squad than Ozzie Guillen did, traded Borchard, Rowand, Reed, and Young to clear the way for Brian to play center. He has gone on record several times declaring Brian the CF of the future and did not actively shop for an alternative CF over the winter. He could have gotten Rowand back in the Philly deal if he wanted, but he did not do it then and he didn't do it during ST either when some reporters thought a deal would happen. Then there is Erstad, who could have been had long before we got him, but we didn't get him until Pods went down because KW wanted CF turned over to BA.

This is all ridiculous. Ozzie is mismanaging this ballclub, period, and now it's not just hurting the present, it's hurting the future too. It's clear Ozzie doesn't want BA on the team, so who is going to be our CF of the future now? Erstad? Terrero?

People complain about Brian's offense. If the Sox - at any point in time - have a CF who plays terrific defense and hits .260-.270 or so with about 10-15 home runs per season, which is the low end of Brian's ceiling, we will have all we need from that position. It's not like he's a corner OF or corner IF or something.

To answer your question: Andruw Jones!

But what really pisses me off about this is that, OZZIE and KW are not on the same page and everyone can see that from a light year away! If KW knew back in middle of '06 that he wouldn't play BA, then KW should have sent down Gload or traded him that time, so he could have acquired a back up CF like Delluci, Winn, Figgins, Baldelli, etc. Also, if KW and Ozzie were on the same page then, BA doesn't come up with the team and Terrero is the 4th OF.

:angry::angry::angry::angry:

But what do I care, Ichiro, Andruw Jones, Abreu, will all be in our outfield, while Dye moves to first and it happens because the Sox have to sign SP's Garcia and Zambrano and resign Iguchi and Buehrle in order for them to come.

As for BA, good luck in Charlotte and sorry that I had high hopes for him this season. I just thank god that I didn't bet on that one.
:cool:

itsnotrequired
04-30-2007, 05:55 AM
Yes, and nobody knows class more than JoseCanseco6969.:rolleyes:
But we shouldn't be surprised. You come off more like a shirtless drunk shouting obscenities after strikeouts than someone keeping score. Your posts read like the reactionary ramblings of a slovenly frat boy. Guzzle, guzzle, bong hit. But I am amazed you were able to pull yourself away from posts about drinking exploits and saying "OMG, Chips is such a loser" to talk about baseball. Please, tell us more about having class.

POTW

wassagstdu
04-30-2007, 06:13 AM
Wow.

This is how we regard the manager who brought us the first World Series championship in 88 years in his second year?!

Disgusting.

There is absolutely no proof whatsoever of this imaginary "Ozzie's out to get BA" conspiracy theory. All the whining that "Ozzie's destroying BA's confidence..." What a crock. In baseball, as in life, there is ONE PERSON who can "destroy BA's confidence" - and that's the guy BA sees when he looks in the mirror.

I was crazy about BA when he came up in '05. He did NOT look the same in '06. "Give him a chance?" 130+ games is plenty enough of a "chance" - in 35 years watching this team I've seen MANY, MANY, MANY through the years get a heck of a lot less.

I really like BA but I can't make myself feel sorry for ANYBODY who gets their first World Series ring within 90 days of making the majors, then gets a golden opportunity with a rookie year on the championship team.

Just wanted to see that one more time.

And by the way, Erstad is leading the active regulars in hitting by almost 20 points.

oeo
04-30-2007, 06:22 AM
He was 0-2 with a walk. I'm surprised we ever called up Brian in the first place with that kind of production. Do you think we should cut Mackowiak when Pods comes back?

And your point? I said he looked better...he didn't get any results, which was unfortunate (besides actually, get this, earning a walk as the rookie 9th hitter that they should be going right after). He still looked more comfortable at the plate than Brian ever has.

oeo
04-30-2007, 06:28 AM
0-2 with a walk. 2 off the end of the bat ground outs ....... This considered "looking better?"

Yes. Look who I'm comparing him to. It just goes to show you how bad Brian looks right now. Sweeney looks comfortable, Brian looks like he's going to die.

Craig Grebeck
04-30-2007, 08:41 AM
I'm sorry if I'm not jumping up and down about Erstad's performance. I feel like if Anderson had played in CF from day one he could put up an OPS in the .700 range (at the least), and probably get on base somewhere around 31% of the time. If we are so excited with Erstad, how low have we set the bar? His numbers aren't great, and save a couple of late hits (he still is hitting .158 in close and late, but he's been good with 2 out RISP) hasn't looked as well as he's been talked up.

balke
04-30-2007, 09:03 AM
And your point? I said he looked better...he didn't get any results, which was unfortunate (besides actually, get this, earning a walk as the rookie 9th hitter that they should be going right after). He still looked more comfortable at the plate than Brian ever has.

Meh, walks and HR's are the only categories the Sox aren't ranked under 20 in the league with. Tell me how much better than BA he is when he actually does something offensively. Shouldn't be hard to top anyhow. PK looks comfy at the plate and he's hitting .198.

I bet he looked that comfy hitting .256 in the minors as well.

kobo
04-30-2007, 09:08 AM
Yes. Look who I'm comparing him to. It just goes to show you how bad Brian looks right now. Sweeney looks comfortable, Brian looks like he's going to die.
So after 3 at bats at the ML level you have already come to the conclusion that Sweeney is more comfortable at the plate than BA? 3 at bats is all it took?

oldcomiskey
04-30-2007, 09:51 AM
As long as he never parties, never watches TV, never shows any type of emotion, isn't under age 30 and never laughs about almost colliding with someone then he'll get plenty of at-bats.

Nail on the head.

Partying is fine--just dont do it on the job

spiffie
04-30-2007, 09:56 AM
Team records from 2004-2006 (Ozzie Guillen's tenure as White Sox Manager):
1. NYY 293-193 .603
2. STL 288-198 .593
3. BOS 279-207 .574
4. LAA 276-210 .568
5. SOX 272-214 .560

In Ozzie's time as manager the Sox have, while playing in what is probably the hardest division in baseball, won more games than all but 4 teams in baseball. While I agree, a manager cannot hit the ball or field the ball for the players, if you are not going to judge based on results, then what are you using except your own opinion that you know the game better than anyone else? I don't think Ozzie's perfect by any means. But I know that so far, whether I have agreed or disagreed with him, he has had success as the manager of this team. And now people are ready to hang him for his refusal to play someone who, for all the possible potential he might have, has not yet shown himself to be able to produce consistently at this level in over 450 plate appearances? Oh yeah, and may be a clubhouse problem?

Seriously, find a better cause celebre to bitch about if you want Ozzie gone. Complain that he calls Jay Mariotti mean names or something. But when the guy who, flawed and apparently mentally addled as he supposedly is, has had more success than almost any other manager over the last few years, makes a decision that a light-hitting prospect with an attitude shouldn't play everyday, I'm kind of inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

BoysMom3
04-30-2007, 09:59 AM
Finally BAAA is gone, I have nothing against him, but he isn't a major league player right now. If we were 15 games back I'd love to see him play, but we are playing for a World Series, having BAAA doesn't assist us in any fashion.

Hopefully this will put an end to all of the ROH and REH on this board but I somehow doubt it.

Hey Chitownhawkfan - you have a little link at the bottom of your post with an article about BA - thanks for that! I read it, got more understanding, and I feel better about things for it! My biggest beef is that I don't think BA even got the chance to prove himself this year, but I do understand and agree with that article.

INSox56
04-30-2007, 10:30 AM
No, you care more about some kid than you do about the team. That's the issue PHG pointed out and you have illustrated.

Caring about the progress of one of our prospects, I would think, would be caring about the sox.

Haha, the guy who joined the month after we won the World Series is defining bandwagon fan for us. I'm sorry, but that's bull****. Being one of those "bandwagon fans" I can say that just because someone didn't join up until after the WS, does NOT mean they are a ****ing bandwagon fan. I joined up after the WS, mainly because I'd never heard of this site, NOT because I'm suddenly a sox fan.

Just because you support BA and don't understand any of the rationale behind this situation, doesn't mean you hate Erstad. I don't get the situation at all, really.

They had about the same stats in the spring and has better D. Walker said that BA's swing looked much much better after some adjustments, so why was Erstad automatically the starter (when the only good thing to keep BA swinging well, was starting and getting plenty of ABs). If you really want to see how he would pan out, why not simply start BA in CF for 2 weeks, then see how he handles things, then if he looks like 06 Anderson, then demote him. Don't take away his ABs and expect him to perform. He looks like **** this year? Well no ****, so would most players (especially young players) who have gone 5 days, 6 days without seeing a single live pitch. That's not giving him a chance, folks.

I also don't understand the extent of bashing BA's performance, really. In 06, Walker himself said that he saw a bunch of flaws and did not help him. But this is disgarded as just "well he sucked last year". Well yes, he sucked last year, but didn't get help from the guy that's supposed to do just that...coach and help. Then, this year, you can't bitch about his performance because he, as indicated by the coaches, was hitting better in spring training, then had his ABs taken away and lost any rhythem. Even Ozzie said that it's not fair to expect anything from him.

Do I hate Ozzie for this? No. But I simply don't understand any of it. He simply was not given a fair chance at redeeming himself this year. If he was hitting well in the spring and there is an obsession over Erstad starting, then just send BA down to keep that rhythem. Simple as that. We obviously didn't need BA much for his defense (since, as indicated, Erstad has only sat out 2 games thusfar).

I think that all of the behind the scenes stuff should be stopped...no one knows for sure, so gmab. All the namecalling and nicknaming is stupid...everyone should grow up and look at it for what it is. Mishandled all over the place; he should have started, either for the first few weeks to get a judge for how he has improved, or in AAA if Erstad was to be Ozzie's man.

Rowandws33
04-30-2007, 10:37 AM
Some people on this board need to go to the bank take some money out and buy themselves a clue..after one game Sweeney has 2 groundouts and walk and he looks better at the plate than BA....oooooooooooo i needed a good laugh today thanks..:D: people are so fickle...

Tragg
04-30-2007, 11:54 AM
Team records from 2004-2006 (Ozzie Guillen's tenure as White Sox Manager):
1. NYY 293-193 .603
2. STL 288-198 .593
3. BOS 279-207 .574
4. LAA 276-210 .568
5. SOX 272-214 .560



Jerry Manuel and Gene Lamont would perform well in that comparison, too.
But I agree that talk of firing Ozzie is silly.
Wondering what he's doing this year (Cintron at DH, AJ at clean up, the love for Erstad) is not silly, though.

spiffie
04-30-2007, 12:14 PM
Jerry Manuel and Gene Lamont would perform well in that comparison, too.

Lamont likely would, but Capt. Tinker wouldn't. The Sox went 500-471 during Manuel's tenure, and the .515 winning percentage would only rank 6th in the AL during that time, so likely somewhere in the 10th-13th range overall. For that time frame:
1. NYY 598-374
2. OAK 553-419
3. SEA 548-424
4. BOS 533-441
5. CLE 509-463
6. SOX 500-471
7. TOR 499-473

FloridaSox
04-30-2007, 12:32 PM
Ozzie does just not click with BA. Send him down to Charlotte, yes, then get some value for him in a trade.

BA deserves a chance to play for an organization that sees value in what he has to offer.

UserNameBlank
04-30-2007, 12:49 PM
Caring about the progress of one of our prospects, I would think, would be caring about the sox.
Thank you.

I'm sorry, but that's bull****. Being one of those "bandwagon fans" I can say that just because someone didn't join up until after the WS, does NOT mean they are a ****ing bandwagon fan. I joined up after the WS, mainly because I'd never heard of this site, NOT because I'm suddenly a sox fan.
Thank you.

I think that all of the behind the scenes stuff should be stopped...no one knows for sure, so gmab. All the namecalling and nicknaming is stupid...everyone should grow up and look at it for what it is. Mishandled all over the place; he should have started, either for the first few weeks to get a judge for how he has improved, or in AAA if Erstad was to be Ozzie's man.
And thank you.

I'm actually suprised so many people here are not willing to admit that the Sox handled this situaiton like a bushleague organization. I'm not blaming KW though, just Ozzie who shouldn't be putting prospects on his roster that he doesn't feel like playing.

rdivaldi
04-30-2007, 01:09 PM
So after 3 at bats at the ML level you have already come to the conclusion that Sweeney is more comfortable at the plate than BA? 3 at bats is all it took?

Anyone who has watched these two kids come up through the system can easily say that Sweeney is much more mechanically sound that Anderson at the plate. It's been obvious since the first time we saw these two at ST 3 years ago.

spiffie
04-30-2007, 01:36 PM
Thank you.


Thank you.


And thank you.

I'm actually suprised so many people here are not willing to admit that the Sox handled this situaiton like a bushleague organization. I'm not blaming KW though, just Ozzie who shouldn't be putting prospects on his roster that he doesn't feel like playing.
Bush league my ass. In 2006 the Sox made a decision to try out Brian Anderson in CF. His performance overall was very substandard. There are reports that his attitude and mental makeup was also lacking, but as those can't be proven, we'll set them aside for now. In 2007 the Sox brought in a veteran CF with a history of decent to above average production. The manager decided that the veteran should be the starter, with the prospect hanging on in a bench role in case of injury or in case the manager wants to make a change. The prospect does a poor job of adjusting to that role, and gets sent down to AAA to play everyday.

If Brian Anderson could have just hit .250 last year he would still be the starting CF. I know everyone loves to bitch about "not every rookie is a Ryan Howard" but Anderson was dead last in BA, OBP, and OPS among rookies last year. Among rookies with over 300 PA's last year, only one had an OPS within 90 points of Anderson. Oh, but he did come in second in one area. Sadly it was the highest K/AB ratio, with a K every 4 AB's.

So it is somehow bush league, or a sign of failing on the part of the manager, or evidence of some petty grudge that Ozzie doesn't hand Brian the starting job again this year after he put up the least impressive rookie season out of any rookie last year? Bull****. Anderson couldn't produce last year up to the standard of rookies like Mike Napoli, Ian Kinsler, and Eliezer Alfonzo. Forgive me if I'm somehow not outraged that after that stellar effort he wasn't given another year as a starter with no questions asked.

JB98
04-30-2007, 01:53 PM
I'm sorry if I'm not jumping up and down about Erstad's performance. I feel like if Anderson had played in CF from day one he could put up an OPS in the .700 range (at the least), and probably get on base somewhere around 31% of the time. If we are so excited with Erstad, how low have we set the bar? His numbers aren't great, and save a couple of late hits (he still is hitting .158 in close and late, but he's been good with 2 out RISP) hasn't looked as well as he's been talked up.

Will you put down your stats for just one second? Erstad has had FIVE HITS in the last 10 days that tied the game or gave the Sox the lead. FOUR have come in the sixth inning or later. Of course, I figured that out by observing the game, as opposed to crunching a bunch of data on a spreadsheet.I don't care what BA's OPS is. I have ZERO confidence that he can even make contact in clutch situations right now.

Rowandws33
04-30-2007, 01:56 PM
So if you struggle your rookie year thats the only chance you should get???? His work ethic is bad huh, is that why he worked with paulie all winter on his swing.. Guys with bad attitudes dont go diving around the outfield making great catches night after night..

JB98
04-30-2007, 01:57 PM
Bush league my ass. In 2006 the Sox made a decision to try out Brian Anderson in CF. His performance overall was very substandard. There are reports that his attitude and mental makeup was also lacking, but as those can't be proven, we'll set them aside for now. In 2007 the Sox brought in a veteran CF with a history of decent to above average production. The manager decided that the veteran should be the starter, with the prospect hanging on in a bench role in case of injury or in case the manager wants to make a change. The prospect does a poor job of adjusting to that role, and gets sent down to AAA to play everyday.

If Brian Anderson could have just hit .250 last year he would still be the starting CF. I know everyone loves to bitch about "not every rookie is a Ryan Howard" but Anderson was dead last in BA, OBP, and OPS among rookies last year. Among rookies with over 300 PA's last year, only one had an OPS within 90 points of Anderson. Oh, but he did come in second in one area. Sadly it was the highest K/AB ratio, with a K every 4 AB's.

So it is somehow bush league, or a sign of failing on the part of the manager, or evidence of some petty grudge that Ozzie doesn't hand Brian the starting job again this year after he put up the least impressive rookie season out of any rookie last year? Bull****. Anderson couldn't produce last year up to the standard of rookies like Mike Napoli, Ian Kinsler, and Eliezer Alfonzo. Forgive me if I'm somehow not outraged that after that stellar effort he wasn't given another year as a starter with no questions asked.

Napoli, Kinsler, Alfonzo, hell, even guys like Ryan Theriot. Forget Ryan Howard. No one in their right mind expects that. BA would be playing every day if his production was even close to a guy like Kinsler.

102605
04-30-2007, 01:58 PM
Bush league my ass. In 2006 the Sox made a decision to try out Brian Anderson in CF. His performance overall was very substandard. There are reports that his attitude and mental makeup was also lacking, but as those can't be proven, we'll set them aside for now. In 2007 the Sox brought in a veteran CF with a history of decent to above average production. The manager decided that the veteran should be the starter, with the prospect hanging on in a bench role in case of injury or in case the manager wants to make a change. The prospect does a poor job of adjusting to that role, and gets sent down to AAA to play everyday.

AMEN! Anderson had 365 AB's last year to show just a small glimpse of production or hope and failed. He K'd 1 out of every 4 AB's he had. The 2nd worst in MLB.

The 2006 Chicago White Sox IMO were a better team than 2005 minus the GLARING HOLE in CF between Anderson sucking and Mackowiak playing out of position.

Anderson should have started the season in AAA and this should have never been a thread. Whether that is the fault of OG or KW I have no clue.

Etownsox13
04-30-2007, 02:06 PM
If Brian Anderson could have just hit .250 last year he would still be the starting CF. I know everyone loves to bitch about "not every rookie is a Ryan Howard" but Anderson was dead last in BA, OBP, and OPS among rookies last year. Among rookies with over 300 PA's last year, only one had an OPS within 90 points of Anderson. Oh, but he did come in second in one area. Sadly it was the highest K/AB ratio, with a K every 4 AB's.

:worship: :worship: :worship: Thank You

Rowandws33
04-30-2007, 02:06 PM
anyone who thinks CF was the problem or the 9 spot in the order was the reason the Sox did not make the playoffs knows nothing about the game. Take a look back at 06 maybe you can see the really reason....

JB98
04-30-2007, 02:12 PM
anyone who thinks CF was the problem or the 9 spot in the order was the reason the Sox did not make the playoffs knows nothing about the game. Take a look back at 06 maybe you can see the really reason....

CF was among the reasons the team did not make the playoffs. It wasn't the biggest reason, but it was one of the reasons. I'm glad you've anointed yourself an expert on the game. I'll be sure to defer to your genius from now on.

spiffie
04-30-2007, 02:13 PM
anyone who thinks CF was the problem or the 9 spot in the order was the reason the Sox did not make the playoffs knows nothing about the game. Take a look back at 06 maybe you can see the really reason....
Yes, CF was a problem, but your arrogant attitude sure does make your ignorant statement sound like it might be right. When you have to decide as a manager between getting any sort of credible major league production out of your CF or putting a defensive nightmare out in CF, that hamstrings the team. That costs you games. Amazingly, the #9 hitter counts just as much as #'s 1-8 do, especially in the AL Central, where the two teams who were ahead of us were getting 745 and 838 OPS out of their most often used #9 hitters as opposed to our 665 we got from Anderson. And gee, shockingly when the Sox picked up a player who is likely to give them both average level production and can play a competent CF, they stopped trying to make that choice. I'm stunned!

oeo
04-30-2007, 02:14 PM
Ozzie does just not click with BA. Send him down to Charlotte, yes, then get some value for him in a trade.

BA deserves a chance to play for an organization that sees value in what he has to offer.

Right now Brian doesn't have anything to offer. Hopefully he can fix his swing and come up and dominate, but at this point, I'm not buying that he will get better with just more at bats. He has more than timing issues, he has mental problems, and they don't need to be fixed up here.

Brian can "cure" whatever bad blood he has with Ozzie by coming back up and performing...right now he's not going to get us much of anything in a trade, and I'm not ready to give up on him.

Those of you that wanted him to get more playing time up here are being are ignoring the fact that we are the worst hitting team in all of baseball. Brian can fix his mental problems away from the big leagues, then come back and help the team...right now he's not going to help the team.

Rowandws33
04-30-2007, 02:28 PM
The Sox ranked what last year in runs scored??? oooooooo the Sox ranked what in homers hit last year...i can see your point the if BA would have had more RBI's we would have won it all again. I guess the bullpen not holding a lead was not the major prob..oooooooo and the starting pitching struggling not as important has BA hitting more...Damn it BA if you would have drove in more runs we would have been world champs again....

itsnotrequired
04-30-2007, 02:31 PM
The Sox ranked what last year in runs scored??? oooooooo the Sox ranked what in homers hit last year...i can see your point the if BA would have had more RBI's we would have won it all again. I guess the bullpen not holding a lead was not the major prob..oooooooo and the starting pitching struggling not as important has BA hitting more...Damn it BA if you would have drove in more runs we would have been world champs again....

What's up with the centipedes in your post? Sounds like the Orkin Man needs a call.

102605
04-30-2007, 02:31 PM
The Sox ranked what last year in runs scored??? oooooooo the Sox ranked what in homers hit last year...i can see your point the if BA would have had more RBI's we would have won it all again. I guess the bullpen not holding a lead was not the major prob..oooooooo and the starting pitching struggling not as important has BA hitting more...Damn it BA if you would have drove in more runs we would have been world champs again....


ooooooooooooooo the Sox are ranked what this year in team AVG and runs scored? oooooooooo Anderson has shown a glimpse of hope in what means?

Half jogging to balls hit to him in the OF this year too. Rumored troubles behind the scenes that the fans have no idea about.

spiffie
04-30-2007, 02:32 PM
The Sox ranked what last year in runs scored??? oooooooo the Sox ranked what in homers hit last year...i can see your point the if BA would have had more RBI's we would have won it all again. I guess the bullpen not holding a lead was not the major prob..oooooooo and the starting pitching struggling not as important has BA hitting more...Damn it BA if you would have drove in more runs we would have been world champs again....
:rolleyes:

You're right. Because something else wasn't as good as it could have been, it doesn't matter how poorly Anderson hit. And since we scored all those runs, all those games we lost 1-0 or 2-1 weren't really losses, since averaged more runs per game than the other team over the course of the season. And because of that Anderson should get a free pass this year as well, since the pitching wasn't good last year. We should wait until his lack of production can be the main reason we lose before we demote him.

sox102
04-30-2007, 02:32 PM
The Sox ranked what last year in runs scored??? oooooooo the Sox ranked what in homers hit last year...i can see your point the if BA would have had more RBI's we would have won it all again. I guess the bullpen not holding a lead was not the major prob..oooooooo and the starting pitching struggling not as important has BA hitting more...Damn it BA if you would have drove in more runs we would have been world champs again....

:whiner:

Why can't we all just get along?? :o:

itsnotrequired
04-30-2007, 02:33 PM
ooooooooooooooo the Sox are ranked what this year in team AVG and runs scored? oooooooooo Anderson has shown a glimpse of hope in what means?

Half jogging to balls hit to him in the OF this year too. Rumored troubles behind the scenes that the fans have no idea about.

Looks like you got bugs as well.

WSI infestation, u did that...

Madvora
04-30-2007, 02:34 PM
Guess what... This conversation will die down and never return once Ryan Sweeney starts making a run at Podsednik's job.
Imagine how that's going to turn out at WSI if Sweeney is actually good?

oeo
04-30-2007, 02:36 PM
Looks like you got bugs as well.

WSI infestation, u did that...

ooooooooo, they're everywhere.

102605
04-30-2007, 02:36 PM
Looks like you got bugs as well.

WSI infestation, u did that...

It is OG fault!

http://www.friendsofsaguaro.org/centipede.jpg

Jjav829
04-30-2007, 02:36 PM
I'm sorry, but that's bull****. Being one of those "bandwagon fans" I can say that just because someone didn't join up until after the WS, does NOT mean they are a ****ing bandwagon fan. I joined up after the WS, mainly because I'd never heard of this site, NOT because I'm suddenly a sox fan.


Haha, settle down there. I was simply countering his absurd definition of a bandwagon fan with another absurd definition of a bandwagon fan. I don't think he was entirely serious about his, and neither was I. Lighten up. :smile:

spiffie
04-30-2007, 02:36 PM
Guess what... This conversation will die down and never return once Ryan Sweeney starts making a run at Podsednik's job.
Imagine how that's going to turn out at WSI if Sweeney is actually good?
Doesn't matter, Ozzie won't play him over Pods because Sweeney is white and Ozzie is a racist.