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WhiteSoxFan84
04-29-2007, 10:31 AM
Cardinals reliever, Josh Hancock, was killed in a car accident and tonight's Cubs/Cardinals game has been postponed. All info per The Score.

itsnotrequired
04-29-2007, 10:31 AM
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20070429&content_id=1936551&vkey=pr_stl&fext=.jsp&c_id=stl

:(:

The_Floridian
04-29-2007, 10:35 AM
That's horrible.

I can't stop thinking this guy is my age and doing exactly what he wants to do with his life and then this happens.

That's just awful. Thoughts and prayers for his loved ones.

SoxandtheCityTee
04-29-2007, 10:40 AM
He was 29 years old. :(:

From the World Series to this -- his poor parents.

R.I.P.

cbotnyse
04-29-2007, 10:40 AM
A damn shame. :(:

getonbckthr
04-29-2007, 10:41 AM
Darryl Kyle all over again.

oeo
04-29-2007, 10:45 AM
Darryl Kyle all over again.

It's always when they're playing the Cubs too...

RIP Hancock.

Fenway
04-29-2007, 10:48 AM
:whiner:

Awful

Huisj
04-29-2007, 10:51 AM
Darryl Kyle all over again.

Maybe this seems inappropriate, but look at this article about Hancock that I found from just a few days ago:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/6DD32DFE615BEB86862572CA0013E95A?OpenDocument

The Critic
04-29-2007, 10:57 AM
Maybe this seems inappropriate, but look at this article about Hancock that I found from just a few days ago:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/6DD32DFE615BEB86862572CA0013E95A?OpenDocument

Wow, that's kind of eerie.
What a shame. 29 is obviously way way way too young to go.
R.I.P. Josh.

HotelWhiteSox
04-29-2007, 10:58 AM
ESPN Scoreboard has our game postponed too? http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/scoreboard

I'm guessing a mistake?

JGarlandrules20
04-29-2007, 11:01 AM
Maybe this seems inappropriate, but look at this article about Hancock that I found from just a few days ago:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/6DD32DFE615BEB86862572CA0013E95A?OpenDocument

Woah, that's scary.

What a tragic event. RIP Josh. :(:

kevingrt
04-29-2007, 11:02 AM
That's sad, very tragic event.

cbotnyse
04-29-2007, 11:03 AM
Maybe this seems inappropriate, but look at this article about Hancock that I found from just a few days ago:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/6DD32DFE615BEB86862572CA0013E95A?OpenDocument


With righthander Darryl Kile dying before a game in Chicago five years ago, the Cardinals don't take it lightly when a player doesn't show up at the park on time.

:o: crazy.

LongLiveFisk
04-29-2007, 11:04 AM
RIP, Josh. How tragic. :(:

Garland_IS_God
04-29-2007, 11:10 AM
Maybe this seems inappropriate, but look at this article about Hancock that I found from just a few days ago:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/6DD32DFE615BEB86862572CA0013E95A?OpenDocument

Wow that really is eerie! RIP

IndianWhiteSox
04-29-2007, 11:19 AM
Cardinals reliever, Josh Hancock, was killed in a car accident and tonight's Cubs/Cardinals game has been postponed. All info per The Score.

:o:

I can't believe that he just passed away like that? That's awful, and to think that this happens a few days after he comes late to the game. Maybe, he was rushing and he lost control, but that's not for me to say.


:whiner::whiner:

Well anyway, RIP Josh Hankcock at least you won a world series.

Hopefully everyone in baseball from fans, to players, to owners will pray for his family.

By the way, didn't the Sox also have a pitcher that died in a car accident back in the 70's

Jjav829
04-29-2007, 11:26 AM
That's horrible to hear. RIP Josh Hancock.

Dan Mega
04-29-2007, 11:38 AM
Simply terrible. RIP.:(:

y2j2785
04-29-2007, 11:43 AM
:(: R.I.P. Josh

The Dude
04-29-2007, 11:58 AM
R.I.P.

Baseball did the right thing by postponing the game.

The Dude
04-29-2007, 12:00 PM
Maybe this seems inappropriate, but look at this article about Hancock that I found from just a few days ago:

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/6DD32DFE615BEB86862572CA0013E95A?OpenDocument



With all the references to Kyle, this is a very strange addition to the tragedy. :o:

thomas35forever
04-29-2007, 12:07 PM
What a horrible thing to happen. RIP Josh.:(:

russ99
04-29-2007, 12:08 PM
Wow, that's absolutely horrible, way too young to go.

Condolences to his family and the Cardinals players & organization.

johnr1note
04-29-2007, 12:22 PM
The "hit and run" show on WSCR is having a discussion about this, and I can't believe there are people who are bent out of shape that the Cards game was cancelled -- Cub fans complaining about travel expenses. Unbelievable.

PKalltheway
04-29-2007, 12:41 PM
The "hit and run" show on WSCR is having a discussion about this, and I can't believe there are people who are bent out of shape that the Cards game was cancelled -- Cub fans complaining about travel expenses. Unbelievable.

Just goes to show you how selfish some people can be. Only thinking about themselves.

My condolences go out to the Hancock family.:(:

Jurr
04-29-2007, 01:27 PM
I really hope that they don't find a lot of alcohol in his blood stream during the autopsy. It's sad enough that this happened to the guy and his family.
Driving home at 12:35 and striking a tow truck doesn't sound good.

It would be terrible if the media turns it into a DUI issue. I feel so sorry for the Cardinals organization, as well.

RIP, Hancock. :(:

Fenway
04-29-2007, 01:28 PM
I am heartsick about this as 9 years ago I got to know Josh casually when he was with the Lowell Spinners.....a great kid

Josh Hancock, LHP
Lowell Spinners 1998
St. Louis Cardinals 2007 :whiner:

itsnotrequired
04-29-2007, 04:54 PM
At the game today, I noticed the Sox flags on the left side of the scoreboard were at half mast. All the other flags were at full mast.

A Sox tribute?

DumpJerry
04-29-2007, 05:21 PM
By the way, didn't the Sox also have a pitcher that died in a car accident back in the 70's
Yes, right before Spring Training. I can't remember his name right now (I have his baseball card, but don't remember where they are right now....).

Dan the Man
04-29-2007, 06:10 PM
At the game today, I noticed the Sox flags on the left side of the scoreboard were at half mast. All the other flags were at full mast.

A Sox tribute?

I was sitting on the Fan Deck for the whole game, and saw that the guy was trying to raise it, but something was wrong and it kept getting stuck about 2/3 of the way up. Before the game I was glad they gave Hancock his due. It is such a sad event.

shoelessshaun27!
04-29-2007, 06:34 PM
Thats terriable :(: R.I.P. Hancock

itsnotrequired
04-29-2007, 06:36 PM
I was sitting on the Fan Deck for the whole game, and saw that the guy was trying to raise it, but something was wrong and it kept getting stuck about 2/3 of the way up.

Ah, I see. Technical difficulties.

Vernam
04-29-2007, 07:01 PM
By the way, didn't the Sox also have a pitcher that died in a car accident back in the 70'sPaul Edmondson: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Edmondson

Vernam

Viva Medias B's
04-29-2007, 08:32 PM
The "hit and run" show on WSCR is having a discussion about this, and I can't believe there are people who are bent out of shape that the Cards game was cancelled -- Cub fans complaining about travel expenses. Unbelievable.

I hope George and Jesse scolded them.

FedEx227
04-29-2007, 09:08 PM
I hope George and Jesse scolded them.

Do you honestly think these morons would scold fellow Flubbers. They probably agreed if anything.

johnr1note
04-29-2007, 09:29 PM
I hope George and Jesse scolded them.

They did, indeed. I'll give them credit -- and at one point, both of them agreed that "I can't believe we're having this conversation."

Jesse in particular put the people in thier place who argued that businesses don't shut down because an employee dies. Even when a business continues on the day an employee dies, its never "business as usual." The boys at WSCR did a good job this time.

JB98
04-29-2007, 09:35 PM
The "hit and run" show on WSCR is having a discussion about this, and I can't believe there are people who are bent out of shape that the Cards game was cancelled -- Cub fans complaining about travel expenses. Unbelievable.

That's how Cubs fans are. They think the baseball world should revolve around them. Hell, they think the whole world should revolve around them.What a sad day for the Cardinals organization. I didn't hear the news until we observed the moment of silence at the Cell this afternoon. (I don't listen to sportsblab radio.) Two times in five years for the St. Louis organization. That has to be just horrible for his teammates. Their grief is very public, and I'm sure that makes it all the more difficult for them.Prayers go out to the Hancock family and the St. Louis Cardinals and their fans.

itsnotrequired
04-29-2007, 10:17 PM
That's how Cubs fans are. They think the baseball world should revolve around them. Hell, they think the whole world should revolve around them.

For the goofballs making these statements, then yes, you would be correct. Why they let these fools on the radio to make jag statements is beyond me...

veeter
04-29-2007, 10:44 PM
R.I.P. Josh.

JB98
04-29-2007, 10:49 PM
For the goofballs making these statements, then yes, you would be correct. Why they let these fools on the radio to make jag statements is beyond me...

They allow those fools to make jag statements because it creates outrage and discussion on message boards.As you may know, I work in the media myself. I assure you that those calling the shots at all the local newspapers and radio stations will go to just about any length to get people talking.

MeteorsSox4367
04-29-2007, 10:50 PM
My prayers to his family.

BoysMom3
04-29-2007, 11:00 PM
I was so saddened to hear this today. My prayers go out to his family and teammates.

itsnotrequired
04-30-2007, 06:08 AM
They allow those fools to make jag statements because it creates outrage and discussion on message boards.As you may know, I work in the media myself. I assure you that those calling the shots at all the local newspapers and radio stations will go to just about any length to get people talking.

I know, I know... I just wish they wouldn't be given a stage. It really wasn't a shock to me that those types were let on the air.

johnr1note
04-30-2007, 09:20 AM
I know, I know... I just wish they wouldn't be given a stage. It really wasn't a shock to me that those types were let on the air.

To be fair, George and Jesse were originally NOT going to allow them to have a stage. One of them made a comment that he was amazed that people had been calling and faxing and e-mailing thier outrage at the cancellation of the game, and he couldn't understand that. They decided that because so many people were expressing outrage, they would give them a chance to be heard. By doing so, I think they proved thier point -- that these people were self centered and insensitive. I think it made a decent conversation on the radio because it put sports in proper perspective on a sports talk show -- family and relationships are more important, and George and Jesse were supporting that vital truth. On rare occasions, the goofs at WSCR prove to on track.

Railsplitter
04-30-2007, 10:13 AM
From what I've been able to gather, there was no alchohol in his system. Given the time, he may well have simply dozed off behind the wheel. I did it once and was awakened by a police siren.

As I understand it, the home team can decide on postponement up until first pitch, then it's in the chief umpire's hands.

donkeylips
04-30-2007, 10:21 AM
I disagree in this case. I think it is a case of a few bad apples here. No one at the evil empire of NSBB mentioned or acted anything like this.

That's how Cubs fans are. They think the baseball world should revolve around them. Hell, they think the whole world should revolve around them.

woodsdavid
04-30-2007, 02:21 PM
From what I've been able to gather, there was no alchohol in his system. Given the time, he may well have simply dozed off behind the wheel. I did it once and was awakened by a police siren.

As I understand it, the home team can decide on postponement up until first pitch, then it's in the chief umpire's hands.

TRUE: EXPLAINS SOME OF OUR RECENT EARLY GAME CANCELLATIONS FOR COLD AND RAIN (READ: BULL-PEN NEEDED REST)

SBSoxFan
04-30-2007, 02:36 PM
From what I've been able to gather, there was no alchohol in his system. Given the time, he may well have simply dozed off behind the wheel. I did it once and was awakened by a police siren.

As I understand it, the home team can decide on postponement up until first pitch, then it's in the chief umpire's hands.

That's what it sounded like from the tow-truck driver's statement. Given that and his sleeping in a few days earlier, I wonder if something was wrong with him, as in sick.

JB98
04-30-2007, 04:33 PM
I disagree in this case. I think it is a case of a few bad apples here. No one at the evil empire of NSBB mentioned or acted anything like this.

NSBB doesn't represent a majority of Cubs fans either.

Soxfanspcu11
04-30-2007, 05:12 PM
NSBB doesn't represent a majority of Cubs fans either.


You are definetly correct on this.

There are some very educated baseball fans over at NSBB who understand the game and are very rational. NSBB certainly has the smartest cub fans around.

Of course, there are plenty of idiots over at NSBB as well. But from what I have seen, at least half, if not the majority are actually informed and realistic.

But not to get to far off topic, I was stunned when I heard this news.

I remember watching him pitch during the Friday and Saturday games of the flubs/Cards series and thinking to myself, "I wonder if he is related to the legendary John Hancock". It's funny/strange how I was watching him pitch on Saturday and nobody, including him, had any idea that he was just hours away from death.

This is a horrible horrible situation. I can't imagine what I would be thinking if one of our players died (God Forbid). True Cardinals fans probably knew a bunch about the guy, including his personal life. The same way that most of us here on WSI know a lot about our players, on and off the field. That fact had to make it that much worse.

I read that he was the only player who attended the premiere of the Cardinals DVD doccumenting and commemorating(sp) their 2006 World Series victory.

I have no clue as to why he was the only one, I find that a bit odd. After all, didn't we have 3 or 4 players show up for ours?

Anyway, the point is, he probably met so many diehard Cardinals fans at that premiere who were incredibly greatful that he showed up. Many people probably had a very soft spot in his heart, for that alone. I really feel bad for the guys family. I can't imagine the hell that they are going through. :(:

SBSoxFan
05-01-2007, 07:52 AM
I read that he was the only player who attended the premiere of the Cardinals DVD doccumenting and commemorating(sp) their 2006 World Series victory.

I have no clue as to why he was the only one, I find that a bit odd. After all, didn't we have 3 or 4 players show up for ours?

I'm pretty sure at least Rowand and Crede showed up for the Sox. Realizing how quickly something like this can happen makes me think about Rowand and how he packs up his truck every year and drives to spring training. In 2006 he drove from Vegas to Florida and then from Philly to Florida this year, I guess. That's a LONG way. I'm thinking - get on a plane!

SoxyStu
05-01-2007, 11:31 AM
From what I've been able to gather, there was no alchohol in his system. Given the time, he may well have simply dozed off behind the wheel.

I was hoping, for the sake of his family, he dozed off, too. As of today, however, it's sounding more and more like he was drinking that night.

IndianWhiteSox
05-01-2007, 11:36 AM
I was hoping, for the sake of his family, he dozed off, too. As of today, however, it's sounding more and more like he was drinking that night.

If that was really the case, then you might have a national case for people trying to make DUI sentences as long as murders or rapes.

Fenway
05-01-2007, 11:46 AM
If Shannon's knew he was drunk and let him drive every St Louis fan should boycott that place forever

Two nights later, after pitching in a Saturday afternoon game, Hancock spent the evening at Mike Shannon's Steaks and Seafood drinking to a point of impairment, according to a couple at the restaurant.
http://a248.e.akamai.net/7/800/1129/0/oascentral-s.realmedia.com/RealMedia/ads/Creatives/default/empty.gif (http://oas-central.realmedia.com/RealMedia/ads/click_lx.ads/www.stltoday.com/sports/cards/1810849804/Frame1/default/empty.gif/38303637383937663436333130303630?)


The couple said they overheard Hancock telling ESPN broadcaster Dave Campbell that manager Tony La Russa had been infuriated with Hancock on Thursday because he was "too hung over to play." A club source also said Hancock was hung over when he arrived at the ballpark.


http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/E60CF4326FCA8483862572CE00145F0A?OpenDocument

JGarlandrules20
05-01-2007, 11:51 AM
I don't know how they do it, but there's a really touching dugout about him.

http://dugout.progressiveboink.com/archive/jon115.html

Chicken Dinner
05-01-2007, 12:42 PM
I really hope that they don't find a lot of alcohol in his blood stream during the autopsy. It's sad enough that this happened to the guy and his family.
Driving home at 12:35 and striking a tow truck doesn't sound good.

It would be terrible if the media turns it into a DUI issue. I feel so sorry for the Cardinals organization, as well.

RIP, Hancock. :(:

They will and this will be a huge DUI issue. The St. Louis Post is already saying that it appears that alcohol is a big factor and this guy had some issues. It's not like Tony could tell him to knock it off seeing as he still has DUI issues himself.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/E60CF4326FCA8483862572CE00145F0A?OpenDocument

jenn2080
05-01-2007, 12:48 PM
I knew there would end up being alcohol involved. Poor guy and his poor family.

SoxyStu
05-01-2007, 12:55 PM
If that was really the case, then you might have a national case for people trying to make DUI sentences as long as murders or rapes.


"They will and this will be a huge DUI issue."


I ain't buyin. I think you two are exaggeratin'. Nationwide? Over the death of a baseball player? It's not like he surived and he killed a family including kids. Maybe for about a week or two it'll be a national push...

D. TODD
05-01-2007, 01:51 PM
Charlie Steiner had a long interview with a beat writer from the Cardinals on XM radio today. It seems that Hancock was involved in an accident that could have been life threatening (he had his front bumper torn off by a tractor-trailer) according to the police a few days earlier in an after hour party area (no closing times for the bars), some small town just outside of St. Louis in Illinois (I can't recall the name). The police said he did not appear inebriated, but he did report late to his afternoon game the next day, reportedly due to a hangover and was fined by the Cards.

LaRussa is already taking a hard stance with the media, saying he'll start swinging his fungo bat if the media goes too far with this. It looks like this story is sadly just beginning in some ways.

Fenway
05-01-2007, 01:58 PM
I can think of 2 NHL players who were killed in a drunk driving accident.

Pelle Lindbergh star goalie for the Flyers and Tim Horton of the Buffalo Sabres

and yes that is the Tim Horton that started the donut chain in Canada and has GREAT coffee

There were reports Horton had consumed a considerable amount of vodka (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vodka), and was rumoured to have been taking pain killers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain_killer) due to a jaw injury suffered in practice the day before. An autopsy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopsy) report released in 2005 showed Horton had a blood alcohol level (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_level) of twice the legal limit. The blood test also showed signs of amobarbital (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amobarbital), which was possibly a residue from the Dexamyl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dexamyl) pills that were found on Horton's body. Dexamyl was a prescription drug that mixed an amphetamine with a depressant. The autopsy showed no indication Horton was taking painkillers as previously thought.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Horton

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelle_Lindbergh

Then there was the horrific boating accident with the Indians in Winter Haven

Viva Medias B's
05-01-2007, 02:40 PM
LaRussa and his "fungo bat" threat against the media is quite interesting considering he was pinched for DUI himself. Kudos to the Post-Dispatch for doing its job. Bernie Miklasz addressed it here (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/berniemiklasz/story/84AFDCE3222EF33A862572CE0017347A?OpenDocument).

D. TODD
05-01-2007, 02:49 PM
LaRussa and his "fungo bat" threat against the media is quite interesting considering he was pinched for DUI himself. They did mention that. The reporters have said that LaRussa has been very tough on himself over that, but it is yet another angle that the media may explore in the next couple of weeks. He was supposedly on his way to meet other players in the small never ending bar town when he had his accident as well. LaRussa is in full defense mode he kept the clubhouse totally closed after last nights loss, even after only receiving permission to keep the clubhouse closed for 1 hour after the game by MLB. He has told his players to beware of reporters who will fake sincerity to get a line that will allow them to capitalize on the tragedy. It seems like it may be ugly with the media in old St. Lou.

WizardsofOzzie
05-01-2007, 03:35 PM
Keeps getting crazier :(:


The death of Cardinals pitcher Josh Hancock (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?statsId=7000) became more complicated on Monday with revelations of an earlier accident and a report of drinking.
Just three days before his death in a freeway wreck, the sport utility vehicle of Hancock was clipped by a semi rig in Sauget, Ill., a St. Louis suburb.


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2854743&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines

Frontman
05-01-2007, 09:10 PM
LaRussa and his "fungo bat" threat against the media is quite interesting considering he was pinched for DUI himself. Kudos to the Post-Dispatch for doing its job. Bernie Miklasz addressed it here (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/berniemiklasz/story/84AFDCE3222EF33A862572CE0017347A?OpenDocument).

That's the type of thing I think managers should be fired for. LaRussa is only keeping his job at this point due to it being an extremely touchy situation with the Cards right now. But honestly, that type of attitude isn't anything new out of Tony. Anyone else remember him getting his staff together to go after Harry and Jimmy up in the booth?

HotelWhiteSox
05-02-2007, 12:27 AM
I don't want to watch it, but a link on Yahoo! news says a camera caught the accident, and they have it on video (not sure if they are showing it or just doing a news report about it)

BanditJimmy
05-02-2007, 12:43 AM
I don't want to watch it, but a link on Yahoo! news says a camera caught the accident, and they have it on video (not sure if they are showing it or just doing a news report about it)


here it is for those who want it. Can't see much because of the distance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPmSjtQOv9A

IndianWhiteSox
05-02-2007, 01:22 AM
I can think of 2 NHL players who were killed in a drunk driving accident.

Pelle Lindbergh star goalie for the Flyers and Tim Horton of the Buffalo Sabres

and yes that is the Tim Horton that started the donut chain in Canada and has GREAT coffee



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Horton

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelle_Lindbergh

Then there was the horrific boating accident with the Indians in Winter Haven

Steve Chiasson also was an NHL player that died of this and same with NFL Lineman Mark Tuniei.

Viva Medias B's
05-02-2007, 07:43 AM
Miklasz continues to call the Cardinals to task today with this (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/columnists.nsf/berniemiklasz/story/FC96FAEC647AEEC6862572CF00159ABF?OpenDocument). Meanwhile, KMOX and the Post-Dispatch are reporting (http://kmox.com/pages/410314.php?contentType=4&contentId=460582) that cannabis was found in Hancock's SUV.

Fenway
05-02-2007, 09:54 AM
another St Louis columnist weighs in

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/columnists.nsf/billmcclellan/story/F737FE93C6534DE0862572CF000E9174?OpenDocument

There are a couple of ways we can treat this story. We can do it the La Russa way. Pretend that it's sad, but sweet. After all, we don't "know" the facts. Then when the toxicology report comes in — hey, it's already old news.

Or we can be honest about the story. It takes nothing away from Hancock's memory to say he was drinking before his fatal crash. Nice people sometimes drink and drive. That's the truth of it. And if the truth about Hancock's death causes one person to stop and think before having that one last drink before heading home, that's a good thing. If the truth causes one person to decide to take that offer of a cab, that's a good thing, too.

Dealing with this honestly is the only way to honor the memory of Josh Hancock.

http://images.stltoday.com/stltoday/images/spacer.gif
(http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/columnists.nsf/billmcclellan/story/F737FE93C6534DE0862572CF000E9174?OpenDocument#OURT OP)

skottyj242
05-02-2007, 02:30 PM
I just read that they found pot in his car. Don't have a link was on someone else's computer.

Viva Medias B's
05-02-2007, 09:24 PM
I just read that they found pot in his car. Don't have a link was on someone else's computer.

Here (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/01A7AC9CE98D888F862572CF00192B7F?OpenDocument)

Frontman
05-02-2007, 10:19 PM
Here (http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/01A7AC9CE98D888F862572CF00192B7F?OpenDocument)

The Cardinals GM needs to get his head examined. Either that, or have a PR guy handle all press releases.

Ok, let me get this straight:

1: Handcock in accident on Thursday, team couldn't find him.

2: Can't perform on Friday/Saturday, fined by team (could be the details are sketchy on these two points, but obviously, something wasn't right.)

3: Saturday night, drinking in resturant owned by a team broadcaster, to the point that the manager felt the need to offer to call a cab.

4: On the way to meet fellow teammates, Handcock killed in another accident.

And the opening paragraph to this article reads:

"Cardinals general manager Walt Jocketty said Tuesday the club had little knowledge about pitcher Josh Hancock's off-field activities and that the responsibility for policing players' activities lies with the players."

Little knowledge? Little?!?!?!? All steps and signs illustrate that the team knew full well about Handcock, his behavior, and did NOTHING other than fine him (I believe they said on the radio 500 bucks) for being hung over and unable to pitch.

I'm sorry, I sure hope that on top of the steroid investigation, someone with the authorities take a good, long, hard look at how the St. Louis Cardinals staff and coaching personnel handled this.

Look, I'm not naive to say that "someone should of helped the kid," as obviously, Handcock was in his late 20s, not some 16 year old. HE decided to drink and drive. But the Cards need to be a bit smarter on what they say in the press moving forward. That statement alone smacks of cover-up all over this mess.

IndianWhiteSox
05-03-2007, 04:11 AM
The Cardinals GM needs to get his head examined. Either that, or have a PR guy handle all press releases.

Ok, let me get this straight:

1: Handcock in accident on Thursday, team couldn't find him.

2: Can't perform on Friday/Saturday, fined by team (could be the details are sketchy on these two points, but obviously, something wasn't right.)

3: Saturday night, drinking in resturant owned by a team broadcaster, to the point that the manager felt the need to offer to call a cab.

4: On the way to meet fellow teammates, Handcock killed in another accident.

And the opening paragraph to this article reads:

"Cardinals general manager Walt Jocketty said Tuesday the club had little knowledge about pitcher Josh Hancock's off-field activities and that the responsibility for policing players' activities lies with the players."

Little knowledge? Little?!?!?!? All steps and signs illustrate that the team knew full well about Handcock, his behavior, and did NOTHING other than fine him (I believe they said on the radio 500 bucks) for being hung over and unable to pitch.

I'm sorry, I sure hope that on top of the steroid investigation, someone with the authorities take a good, long, hard look at how the St. Louis Cardinals staff and coaching personnel handled this.

Look, I'm not naive to say that "someone should of helped the kid," as obviously, Handcock was in his late 20s, not some 16 year old. HE decided to drink and drive. But the Cards need to be a bit smarter on what they say in the press moving forward. That statement alone smacks of cover-up all over this mess.

These are the same group of people who covered up the steroid era back in Oakland and St Louis.

Frontman
05-03-2007, 07:09 PM
These are the same group of people who covered up the steroid era back in Oakland and St Louis.

Yeah, I forgot what team Mark McGuire played for when I posted originally. My bad. St. Louis, the team of coverup.

Chicken Dinner
05-04-2007, 10:19 AM
Well, it's official. BAC of .157.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/laworder/story/8020B48D713D6B02862572D1004FD1D8?OpenDocument

itsnotrequired
05-04-2007, 10:22 AM
Well, it's official. BAC of .157.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/laworder/story/8020B48D713D6B02862572D1004FD1D8?OpenDocument

Crap.

:(:

downstairs
05-04-2007, 10:25 AM
Wow.

And he had an accident two days before that forced the Cards to reschedule the start of a game?

It looks like this one is turning ugly fast.

BeeBeeRichard
05-04-2007, 10:49 AM
It's a blessing that he didn't kill anyone else.

But it's a shame that THIS drunken driving death will get so much more attention than many of the ones where there are INNOCENT victims.

Do you think the accident in Oswego got this much attention in St. Louis or any other city outside Chicago?

mantis1212
05-04-2007, 11:05 AM
The discovery of the weed in his car is another crazy twist. Does anyone know if marijuana is part of the latest MLB drug policy in terms of testing?

PatK
05-04-2007, 11:05 AM
Not to joke, but what wierd coincidences.

Both he and Darryl Kile died during a series with the Cubs, and both had weed on them.

illini81887
05-04-2007, 11:10 AM
Whether in his system or in the hotel room?

RockyMtnSoxFan
05-04-2007, 11:37 AM
Wow. I wonder what Tony LaRussa is thinking about this one. He didn't set a very good example for his players, and now the results are tragic. There was a Page 2 article on ESPN about a month or so ago, saying that LaRussa should get more of a punishment for his DUI. Maybe this whole situation will bring more attention to the issue, and result in stiffer penalties for players and coaches who commit alcohol related crimes.

MUsoxfan
05-04-2007, 11:41 AM
The discovery of the weed in his car is another crazy twist. Does anyone know if marijuana is part of the latest MLB drug policy in terms of testing?

I'm not sure, but weed hardly enhances the ability to do any task.

Chicken Dinner
05-04-2007, 11:42 AM
Looks like he was also speeding and talking on a cellphone.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/baseball/mlb/05/04/hancock.accident.ap/index.html?eref=si_mlb

itsnotrequired
05-04-2007, 11:45 AM
I'm not sure, but weed hardly enhances the ability to do any task.

From the old CBA:

Attachment 18, Article 2.A


All Players shall be prohibited from using, possessing, selling, facilitating
the sale of, distributing, or facilitating the distribution of any
Drug of Abuse and/or Steroid (collectively referred to as “Prohibited
Substances”).

A. Drugs of Abuse

Any and all drugs or substances included on Schedule II of the Code
of Federal Regulations’ Schedule of Controlled Substances (“Schedule
II”), as amended from time to time, and all Schedule I drugs listed on
Addendum C attached hereto, as amended from time to time, shall be
considered Drugs of Abuse covered by the Program. The following
substances and their analogs are covered by the Program, their Schedule
classification notwithstanding:
1. Cocaine
2. LSD
3. Marijuana
4. Opiates (e.g., Heroin, Codeine, Morphine)
5. MDMA (“Ecstasy”)
6. GHB
7. Phencyclidine (“PCP”)


I haven't seen the text of the new CBA but the drug program has been continued so I imagine marijuana is still on the list.

Also, Article E:


E. Marijuana
A Player on the Administrative Track for the use or possession of
marijuana shall not be subject to suspension. The Player will be subject
to fines, which shall be progressive and which shall not exceed
$15,000. Notwithstanding the foregoing, a Player who participates in
the sale or distribution (as those terms are used in the criminal code) of
marijuana will be subject to the discipline set forth in Sections 9.C
or 9.D above.


9.C and 9.D for reference:


C. Conviction for the Use of Prohibited Substance
A player who is convicted or pleads guilty (including a plea of nolo
contendere or similar plea but not including an adjournment contemplating
dismissal or a similar disposition) to the use of any Prohibited
169
Substance (including a criminal charge of conspiracy or attempt to
possess or use) shall be subject to the following discipline:
1. For a first offense: a 15-day, but no more than a 30-day, suspension
or up to a $10,000 fine;
2. For a second offense: a 30-day, but not more than a 90-day, suspension
or up to a $50,000 fine;
3. For a third offense: a one-year suspension or up to a $100,000
fine;
4. For a fourth offense: a two-year suspension; and
5. Any subsequent offense by a Player shall result in the Commissioner
imposing further discipline on the Player. The level of the discipline
will be determined consistent with the concept of progressive
discipline.
D. Participation in the Sale or Distribution of a Prohibited
Substance
A Player who participates in the sale or distribution of a Prohibited
Substance shall be subject to the following discipline:
1. For a first offense: at least a 60-day, but no more than a 90-day,
suspension and up to a $100,000 fine; and
2. For a second offense: a two-year suspension.
Any subsequent offense by a Player shall result in the Commissioner
imposing further discipline on the Player. The level of the discipline
will be determined consistent with the concept of progressive
discipline.

MUsoxfan
05-04-2007, 11:54 AM
I interpret it as "If you smoke some weed we'll slap you on the wrist unless you get caught by the cops and make it a public matter."

itsnotrequired
05-04-2007, 11:57 AM
I interpret it as "If you smoke some weed we'll slap you on the wrist unless you get caught by the cops and make it a public matter."

Pretty much.

Sargeant79
05-04-2007, 12:36 PM
Wow...

Being drunk, possibly smoking pot, talking on a cell phone...

Just about everything you shouldn't do while driving, this guy was doing while driving.

chaerulez
05-04-2007, 12:41 PM
Whether in his system or in the hotel room?

Kile had trace amounts in his body. So I doubt he was a regular pot smoker, but he did it every now and then. Of course, no national media outlet every investigated that issue. I don't really have a problem with pro athletes smoking weed as long as they aren't doing it before games. But the story behind that when the Kile thing broke was why doesn't MLB test for it? The NBA and NFL at least test for it, and you only get caught if you are a chronic user or just stupid. And 8.55 grams of weed is a lot, that means Hancock probably smoked regulary.

russ99
05-04-2007, 01:10 PM
Wow...

Being drunk, possibly smoking pot, talking on a cell phone...

Just about everything you shouldn't do while driving, this guy was doing while driving.

Don't forget speeding.

Man, what a waste. I just hope some kids learn something from this.

IndianWhiteSox
05-04-2007, 01:14 PM
Don't forget speeding.

Man, what a waste. I just hope some kids learn something from this.

For some reason, this may become the Len Bias issue of the 21st century, with politicians pandering to the people who want(and rightfully so) harsher DUI penalities, and other violation penalties.

stl_sox_fan
05-04-2007, 01:45 PM
For some reason, this may become the Len Bias issue of the 21st century, with politicians pandering to the people who want(and rightfully so) harsher DUI penalities, and other violation penalties.

At least he didn't kill anyone. Leonard Little (http://www.nndb.com/people/032/000045894/) killed a woman when he was driving drunk after his birthday party in St Louis years back.

IndianWhiteSox
05-04-2007, 02:00 PM
At least he didn't kill anyone. Leonard Little (http://www.nndb.com/people/032/000045894/) killed a woman when he was driving drunk after his birthday party in St Louis years back.

I know about that and I think that's awful that the NFL hasn't banned him yet for that. The fact is that, DUI's will get a stiffer penalty in the next few years due to events like that.

Martinigirl
05-04-2007, 03:19 PM
Wow. I wonder what Tony LaRussa is thinking about this one. He didn't set a very good example for his players, and now the results are tragic. There was a Page 2 article on ESPN about a month or so ago, saying that LaRussa should get more of a punishment for his DUI. Maybe this whole situation will bring more attention to the issue, and result in stiffer penalties for players and coaches who commit alcohol related crimes.

He was a 29 year old adult male. I seriously doubt that his manager's behavior influenced his behavior.

At some point the responsibility for someone's actions has to fall upon Hancock's own shoulders, but since he is gone, people try to find someone else to blame. The fault is completely his own, and he paid the ultimate price for it.

Rocky Soprano
05-04-2007, 03:41 PM
It is a shame that some people do not realize how precious life is.
Hopefully this tragic accident serves as a wake up call for those who
may participate in the same type of activities.

Fenway
05-04-2007, 03:42 PM
I am amazed that MLB teams do not put into the contract with a player that if they want to "party" then they must hire a driver.

These guys can afford to do that.

AnkleSox
05-04-2007, 03:48 PM
I am amazed that MLB teams do not put into the contract with a player that if they want to "party" then they must hire a driver.

These guys can afford to do that.

I completely agree. Hell, I'm broke and when I go out drinking I still pony up the 5-20 dollars it might take me get home at the end of the night.

Even making league minimum these guys can afford a cab ANYWHERE in ANY CITY at ANY time of the night.

Frontman
05-04-2007, 03:55 PM
You know, I do have to say to all those who will now call for "dry" lockerrooms in MLB don't get it.

This kid took risks, you can see all the signs of such. It wasn't just a beer or two after the game that claimed his life. I was a series of incredibly stupid choices.

A beer or two then onto the team bus won't kill you. Drinking all night, smoking dope, then driving over the limit (in various ways) while on a cell phone certainly will.

Like I said, it isn't beer in a lockerroom.

AZChiSoxFan
05-04-2007, 04:19 PM
At least he didn't kill anyone. Leonard Little (http://www.nndb.com/people/032/000045894/) killed a woman when he was driving drunk after his birthday party in St Louis years back.

wasn't that the second time he had been convicted of a DUI? Maddening. What made me want to puke was when his Ram teammates work LL on their helmets, like he was some sort of victim. What a classy organization. Seriously, the Leonard Little story make me just want to vomit. What a slimeball.

BeviBall!
05-04-2007, 05:45 PM
Did anyone think he wasn't drunk? C'mon, how can you not see a tow truck with all those flashing lights? Add pot and a celly to this... good god. As said before, thankfully he didn't kill anyone else.

Now, maybe they can take his jersey down from the clubhouse.

cbotnyse
05-04-2007, 05:46 PM
Can you imagine how traumatized the girl he was talking to must be.

BeeBeeRichard
05-04-2007, 06:00 PM
To partially answer my own question from earlier:

This thread on Hancock crash (1 dead) = 100+ posts and counting

WSI thread on Oswego crash -- http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=84152 (5 dead) = 6 posts

This is a baseball board, but it's also a Chicago board. It's a damn shame it takes some idiot killing himself to bring our attention to this problem, when a far, FAR, FAR bigger tragedy right here didn't really draw any response. Everyone should remember those 5, or the pregnant woman that got hit head-on on Route 31, or any other INNOCENT victims of drunken driving long after Josh Hancock is forgotten.

MUsoxfan
05-04-2007, 06:27 PM
Everyone should remember those 5, or the pregnant woman that got hit head-on on Route 31, or any other INNOCENT victims of drunken driving long after Josh Hancock is forgotten.

I agree with that, however those 5 were hardly innocent victims. They jammed themselves in that car like sardines to let a person they knew was drinking drive them home.

southside rocks
05-04-2007, 06:37 PM
Don't forget speeding.

Man, what a waste. I just hope some kids learn something from this.

If the reports on the radio are accurate, Hancock also was not wearing a seat belt.

Don't know if that would have made a difference in this case, but the idea is to buckle up before you even start the car ...

FarNorthSide
05-04-2007, 11:11 PM
He was a 29 year old adult male. I seriously doubt that his manager's behavior influenced his behavior.

At some point the responsibility for someone's actions has to fall upon Hancock's own shoulders, but since he is gone, people try to find someone else to blame. The fault is completely his own, and he paid the ultimate price for it.
Baloney. The team set a clear signal that drinking and driving was acceptable. If the team had fired LaRussa (and I believe they should have) That would make players think twice about jeopardizing their careers.

I am 44, but I still watch for signals from my employer to get a sense for what I is acceptable behavior.

Brian1978
05-04-2007, 11:17 PM
Baloney. The team set a clear signal that drinking and driving was acceptable. If the team had fired LaRussa (and I believe they should have) That would make players think twice about jeopardizing their careers.

I am 44, but I still watch for signals from my employer to get a sense for what I is acceptable behavior.

Dont make the mistake of comparing what goes on in MLB clubhouses with a regular office/warehouse/etc. setting. Beer in the locker room has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with Larussa or the Cardinals.

It is long time baseball tradition.

Unfortunately one player, just one player: died as a result of his mistake of driving a car. Period.

Under the "blame others" logic: all weddings should be banned from serving alcohol. I do think it is good to take a hard look at drinking and driving anytime some idiot is stupid enough to kill himself or others.

ondafarm
05-04-2007, 11:44 PM
. . . all weddings should be banned from serving alcohol. . .

Heck, that would have saved me a lot of trouble, I wouldn't have gotten married either time if I'd been sober.

StillMissOzzie
05-05-2007, 12:02 AM
Holy ****, a BAC of 0.157, I am surprised the dumb SOB even found his car, let alone took off in it. That's almost DOUBLE the threshold for legally under the influence. The add some weed to that mix... at least he didn't take any other innocent lives down the drain with him.

Per MJ&H this afternoon, the Cardinals have announced a ban on alcohol in the clubhouse. Not that it would have mattered in the Hancock incident, but at least they are not standing pat.

SMO
:(:

Nellie_Fox
05-05-2007, 12:07 AM
Holy ****, a BAC of 0.157, I am surprised the dumb SOB even found his car, let alone took off in it. That's almost DOUBLE the threshold for legally under the influence.I made hundreds of DUI arrests in my career. 0.15 was very routine. Over 0.20 was not unusual. We didn't get impressed until they were approaching 0.30. The highest driver I personally saw was 0.37, although I've taken pedestrians into a protective custody for transport to the hospital who were 0.43.

gobears1987
05-05-2007, 12:17 AM
The more I hear of this story, the less sympathetic I am to Hancock. I know he's dead, but what a dumbass.

I'm just glad he didn't harm anyone else. He easily could've done so.

Vernam
05-05-2007, 12:52 AM
The more I hear of this story, the less sympathetic I am to Hancock. I know he's dead, but what a dumbass.

I'm just glad he didn't harm anyone else. He easily could've done so.Amen to that. Sorry to criticize the departed, but today's news about the blood alcohol level and cell phone reads like something out of the Darwin Awards.

Vernam

StillMissOzzie
05-05-2007, 01:04 AM
Amen to that. Sorry to criticize the departed, but today's news about the blood alcohol level and cell phone reads like something out of the Darwin Awards.

Vernam

You forgot to include the weed.

SMO
:(:

bigfoot
05-05-2007, 01:27 AM
If the reports on the radio are accurate, Hancock also was not wearing a seat belt.

Don't know if that would have made a difference in this case, but the idea is to buckle up before you even start the car ...

Not from the looks of the Explorer post-crash photo I saw. Full crush, back to the second row.

soxfan13
05-05-2007, 06:06 AM
Holy ****, a BAC of 0.157, I am surprised the dumb SOB even found his car, let alone took off in it. That's almost DOUBLE the threshold for legally under the influence. The add some weed to that mix... at least he didn't take any other innocent lives down the drain with him.

Per MJ&H this afternoon, the Cardinals have announced a ban on alcohol in the clubhouse. Not that it would have mattered in the Hancock incident, but at least they are not standing pat.

SMO
:(:

Thats not stumbling drunk. .08 is 2 beers in an hour.

Viva Medias B's
05-05-2007, 08:29 AM
I made hundreds of DUI arrests in my career. 0.15 was very routine. Over 0.20 was not unusual. We didn't get impressed until they were approaching 0.30. The highest driver I personally saw was 0.37, although I've taken pedestrians into a protective custody for transport to the hospital who were 0.43.

Wouldn't that be lethal?

IndianWhiteSox
05-05-2007, 08:32 AM
Heck, that would have saved me a lot of trouble, I wouldn't have gotten married either time if I'd been sober.

Fixed it for ya!

PaleHoseGeorge
05-05-2007, 09:12 AM
...I've taken pedestrians into a protective custody for transport to the hospital who were 0.43.

Could the 0.43 guy even see?

:?:

Nellie_Fox
05-05-2007, 02:02 PM
Wouldn't that be lethal?It can be, but big-time alcoholics develop a kind of tolerance. They did need to get put on IV fluids, though.

Could the 0.43 guy even see?

:?:I've had two of them at that level. One was incoherent, in his underwear, laying in a parking lot. The other, believe it or not, was walking around under her own power.

PaleHoseGeorge
05-05-2007, 02:13 PM
It can be, but big-time alcoholics develop a kind of tolerance. They did need to get put on IV fluids, though.

I've had two of them at that level. One was incoherent, in his underwear, laying in a parking lot. The other, believe it or not, was walking around under her own power.

I'm going to take a guess and say the "0.43 Twins" were both as wide as a house. And the one still walking around on his own power was wearing an "A-tank" undershirt, the better to show off his body covered with tattoos.

:wink:

eastchicagosoxfan
05-05-2007, 02:30 PM
I'm going to take a guess and say the "0.43 Twins" were both as wide as a house. And the one still walking around on his own power was wearing an "A-tank" undershirt, the better to show off his body covered with tattoos.

:wink:
Remember the story out of Minneapolis several years ago, involving airline pilots? A passenger observed members of a Northwest Airlines crew at a bar, and the crew was drinking heavily. That same passenger saw them as the flight crew on his flight. The pilots came up with a unique defense. They said they were alcoholics. Had " normal " people drank that much, they'd be stumbling drunks, to the alcoholic though, it was just getting started. I don't think it worked in court. :gulp:

California Sox
05-05-2007, 02:32 PM
I'm going to take a guess and say the "0.43 Twins" were both as wide as a house. And the one still walking around on his own power was wearing an "A-tank" undershirt, the better to show off his body covered with tattoos.

:wink:

That's not necessarily true. If you'll notice the person who he said he brought in who was walking around was a woman. I know one girl who is quite slender (and an alcoholic for some time) who blew a .40. Like he said, the tolerance develops over time and I think in the case of some women, they can build up to a very high blood alcohol level with a lot less to drink. Has to do with differences in the way some people metabolize alcohol.

As to whether or not Hancock's behavior makes it less sad, I actually think it makes it more sad. Here was a preventable death of a guy who may have had a substance problem. Personally, I'm real excited about a guy like Josh Hamilton, but a story like Hancock or from a few years ago Ken Caminiti to me is just as tragic as the Hamilton situation is thrilling.

twentywontowin
05-05-2007, 03:37 PM
Wouldn't that be lethal?

Just depends on your tolerance. We had a breathalyzer for my college days, law enforcement model accurate within .01, with a range up to .40

I had a buddy who topped it out a .40, and was walking around having coherent conversations with people, cooking food, all while opening up his second 750mL bottle of Southern Comfort for the night. Proceeded to go to bed normally and wake up with no hangover.

All depends on the person.

gobears1987
05-06-2007, 01:18 AM
Not from the looks of the Explorer post-crash photo I saw. Full crush, back to the second row.The problem in this case was that the flatbed was pretty high off the ground. The point of contact was at about the level of the base of the pillars. That is probably not going to be a crash you survive.

Martinigirl
05-06-2007, 11:29 AM
Baloney. The team set a clear signal that drinking and driving was acceptable. If the team had fired LaRussa (and I believe they should have) That would make players think twice about jeopardizing their careers.

I am 44, but I still watch for signals from my employer to get a sense for what I is acceptable behavior.

If you are an adult, you are responsible for your own behavior. If you need your employer to tell you the difference between right and wrong, that is just sad on a lot of levels.

Frontman
05-06-2007, 11:35 AM
If you are an adult, you are responsible for your own behavior. If you need your employer to tell you the difference between right and wrong, that is just sad on a lot of levels.

Precisely. This isn't some "wunderkid" who was 19 and in the majors. He was 29. Should have half a brain to know what LaRussa did was wrong, what he was doing was wrong, and I'm glad that he didn't take anyone else with him when he killed himself driving wrecklessly.

(Rant time. Part of being a mail carrier is that I'm on the street obviously. A MAJOR pet-peeve I have is moronic drivers; to the point my family laughs a bit when they see me get aggravated when I watch someone drive stupid. I do point out they would be just as frustrated/aggravated watching someone take stupid risks inside their workplace. I work on the street, and drunk drivers/unisured drivers/talking on the cell phone and not paying attention, and my personal favorite, morons who buy large SUV/mini-van vehicles who can't handle them. All of them put me at risk when I'm doing my job. Because some moron can't handle his/her liquor or have half a brain to turn their flamin' phone off and pay attention might mean I don't get home in one piece. GAH! Ok, rant done.)

FarNorthSide
05-06-2007, 09:13 PM
If you are an adult, you are responsible for your own behavior. If you need your employer to tell you the difference between right and wrong, that is just sad on a lot of levels.
I am not saying I am not responsible, or that my employer TELLS me what to do. I am saying I am influenced by others, especially by those in positions of authority and people I respect. If you are not influenced by the people that you interact with, or the books that you read, or the movies that you see - then you are dead.

I have mentors and mentees (and occasionally Mentos). As an executive in a 15,000 employee company I know people are watching me and are influenced by my behavior. I see it all of the time. Especially young men and women. I would, and should, be fired if I were arrested for driving drunk.

Frontman
05-06-2007, 09:43 PM
I am not saying I am not responsible, or that my employer TELLS me what to do. I am saying I am influenced by others, especially by those in positions of authority and people I respect. If you are not influenced by the people that you interact with, or the books that you read, or the movies that you see - then you are dead.

I have mentors and mentees (and occasionally Mentos). As an executive in a 15,000 employee company I know people are watching me and are influenced by my behavior. I see it all of the time. Especially young men and women. I would, and should, be fired if I were arrested for driving drunk.


Welcome to the site, BTW. I do have to say that I am effected by the behavior of my superiors.

As in I would do NOTHING like them. :D:

Nellie_Fox
05-07-2007, 12:45 AM
Welcome to the site, BTW. I do have to say that I am effected by the behavior of my superiors.

As in I would do NOTHING like them. :D:Then they are not your superiors, merely your supervisors. Big difference.

Chicken Dinner
05-07-2007, 12:50 PM
No more booze or beer in the Cards clubhouse.

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/61151AF391D15FAF862572D30016398E?OpenDocument

But I bet Tony has a bottle in that lower right hand desk drawer in his office. :D: