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CubsfansareDRUNK
04-28-2007, 10:42 PM
I was talking about this so called "cubs cardinals rivalry" today with my dad, and it got me thinking, is there really a rivalry between these two teams? Most cub fans I know really don't hate the cards, and most cards fans I know just laugh at how much the cubs suck. What brought about this alleged rivalry?

itsnotrequired
04-28-2007, 10:51 PM
I was talking about this so called "cubs cardinals rivalry" today with my dad, and it got me thinking, is there really a rivalry between these two teams? Most cub fans I know really don't hate the cards, and most cards fans I know just laugh at how much the cubs suck. What brought about this alleged rivalry?

They have played each other more than any other team in thir leagues. Head-to-head rivals through all the rconstructure of the leagues.

No brainier here...

The Critic
04-28-2007, 11:51 PM
The Cub fans I know hate the Cardinals almost as much as they don't care about the White Sox.
It is a fairly heated rivalry, from what they tell me, but I think it's a little more good-natured than the Sox/Cubs thing.
The Sox winning in 2005 and the Redbirds in 2006 was a pretty harsh punch in the gut for Cub fans.

balke
04-29-2007, 12:23 AM
You're talking about one of if not the biggest and best rivalry in baseball. You would notice it more if you were between the two cities. The Sox don't exist in the middle of Illinois, its either Cards or Cubs.

CubsfansareDRUNK
04-29-2007, 12:54 AM
You're talking about one of if not the biggest and best rivalry in baseball. You would notice it more if you were between the two cities. The Sox don't exist in the middle of Illinois, its either Cards or Cubs.

Ah. So it's a location thing?

DSpivack
04-29-2007, 12:56 AM
You're talking about one of if not the biggest and best rivalry in baseball. You would notice it more if you were between the two cities. The Sox don't exist in the middle of Illinois, its either Cards or Cubs.

In my eyes:
1. Dodgers/Giants
2. Yanks/Sawx
3. Cubs/Cards

DSpivack
04-29-2007, 12:57 AM
You're talking about one of if not the biggest and best rivalry in baseball. You would notice it more if you were between the two cities. The Sox don't exist in the middle of Illinois, its either Cards or Cubs.

You are exactly right. My dad used to live in Springfield, perhaps more of a battleground in the rivalry than anywhere else in Central IL. It was divided there b/w Cards and Cubs, even though St. Louis is twice as close.

MUsoxfan
04-29-2007, 01:53 AM
I was down in St Louis for one of these games during the last year of Busch I. I can say that I was very surprised how cordial the Cardinals were towards Cubdom and there was no real tension between the opposing fans at all. It may be a rivalry, but it's not very heated.

I'll never forget the suicide squeeze Eckstein layed out in that game I was at. It was a thing of beauty

HotelWhiteSox
04-29-2007, 02:00 AM
Location and marketing

Viva Medias B's
04-29-2007, 08:42 PM
In my eyes:
1. Dodgers/Giants
2. Yanks/Sawx
3. Cubs/Cards

Don't tell the Eastern Seaboard Programming Network that!!!

The Cubs-Cardinals rivalry is a classic one no doubt. In fact, there is a book about the rivarly titled The I-55 Series: Cubs vs. Cardinals (http://www.amazon.com/I-55-Cubs-Vs-Cardinals/dp/1582610320/ref=sr_1_1/102-0620664-2065728?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1177897279&sr=8-1).

soxfan13
04-30-2007, 10:23 AM
Don't tell the Eastern Seaboard Programming Network that!!!

The Cubs-Cardinals rivalry is a classic one no doubt. In fact, there is a book about the rivarly titled The I-55 Series: Cubs vs. Cardinals (http://www.amazon.com/I-55-Cubs-Vs-Cardinals/dp/1582610320/ref=sr_1_1/102-0620664-2065728?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1177897279&sr=8-1).

Yeah thats why they were supposed to be the Sunday night game of the week?:rolleyes:

Johnny Mostil
04-30-2007, 10:52 AM
I was a little surprised to see the Cubs have a slight edge in this series: 1059-1019 since 1901, according to baseball-reference.com. Yeah, I know, the Cubs had some good teams before 1945, but the Cards have had good teams both before and after that year.

Incidentally, the Dodgers and Giants have played a few more times than the Cubs and Cards: 2,110. (And the Cardinals have apparently played the Pirates three more times than they've played the Cubs.)

itsnotrequired
04-30-2007, 11:06 AM
I was a little surprised to see the Cubs have a slight edge in this series: 1059-1019 since 1901, according to baseball-reference.com. Yeah, I know, the Cubs had some good teams before 1945, but the Cards have had good teams both before and after that year.

Incidentally, the Dodgers and Giants have played a few more times than the Cubs and Cards: 2,110. (And the Cardinals have apparently played the Pirates three more times than they've played the Cubs.)

Those stats only go back to 1901. The two teams have been playing each other head-to-head since 1892.

Those 1900s Cub teams totally destroyed the Cardinals during the regular season. They were winning the season series by 10 games on the regular for over a decade.

WizardsofOzzie
04-30-2007, 11:14 AM
I was talking about this so called "cubs cardinals rivalry" today with my dad, and it got me thinking, is there really a rivalry between these two teams? Most cub fans I know really don't hate the cards, and most cards fans I know just laugh at how much the cubs suck. What brought about this alleged rivalry?
I think it's quite the intense rivalry. I was at a party this last weekend and a Cubs fan saw my Sox shirt and said "Awww man, a Sox fan??" I said yes and he replied "At least you're not a damn Cardinals fan" I think they are still bitter that the Cards somehow pulled out that WS win despite being huge underdogs.

Johnny Mostil
04-30-2007, 11:18 AM
Those stats only go back to 1901. The two teams have been playing each other head-to-head since 1892.

Those 1900s Cub teams totally destroyed the Cardinals during the regular season. They were winning the season series by 10 games on the regular for over a decade.

Correct. That's why I said in my original post, "I was a little surprised to see the Cubs have a slight edge in this series: 1059-1019 since 1901." But I should have clarified that for the other series as well.

itsnotrequired
04-30-2007, 11:25 AM
Correct. That's why I said in my original post, "I was a little surprised to see the Cubs have a slight edge in this series: 1059-1019 since 1901." But I should have clarified that for the other series as well.

I don't have time to read full posts.

:redface:

Johnny Mostil
04-30-2007, 11:27 AM
I don't have time to read full posts.

:redface:


Meh. I don't have time to write complete ones!:wink:

mshake10
04-30-2007, 12:00 PM
g1yU2kgjNCg
Somehow, I don't see the Hawk singing the stretch (unless of course he already did).

Viva Medias B's
04-30-2007, 12:26 PM
Yeah thats why they were supposed to be the Sunday night game of the week?:rolleyes:

Well, not even they could have a Boston-New York matchup two Sundays in a row, as much as they would have liked to.

chisoxmike
04-30-2007, 12:32 PM
Somehow, I don't see the Hawk singing the stretch (unless of course he already did).

And your point?

:dtroll:

itsnotrequired
04-30-2007, 12:36 PM
And your point?

:dtroll:

Banned again. The surprises never stop coming!

chisoxmike
04-30-2007, 12:50 PM
Banned again. The surprises never stop coming!

All a day in the life of WSI.:bandance:

Uncle_Patrick
04-30-2007, 02:20 PM
I was talking about this so called "cubs cardinals rivalry" today with my dad, and it got me thinking, is there really a rivalry between these two teams? Most cub fans I know really don't hate the cards, and most cards fans I know just laugh at how much the cubs suck. What brought about this alleged rivalry?
I really surprised by this post. Every Cubs fan I know hates the Cardinals. Cards fans can laugh at how much the Cubs suck because they currently have the upper hand, but if the Cubs started winning that division year after year, you'd hear a lot less laughing and lot more anger.

johnr1note
04-30-2007, 02:32 PM
Yes, its a rivalry, and it may have a long history, but I wouldn't place it as any more heated than White Sox vs Twins or White Sox vs Indians these days. Now in the heartland of Illinois, you will see it a little more heated, but more because of the vast reach of Cardinal loyalty. Plus, don't believe for a minute that the Sox have no fan following downstate -- they just aren't as vocal because there is no AL opponent nearby, and they can watch Cards and Cub fans claw at each other. But I have been to White Sox gatherings in sports bars in places like Decauter and Bloomington where the place was packed with Sox fans.

WLL1855
04-30-2007, 06:27 PM
I was talking about this so called "cubs cardinals rivalry" today with my dad, and it got me thinking, is there really a rivalry between these two teams? Most cub fans I know really don't hate the cards, and most cards fans I know just laugh at how much the cubs suck. What brought about this alleged rivalry?

I don't know how it started, but for some cheap entertainment bring up the Lou Brock for Ernie Broglio trade to any long suffering Cubs fan (age 40+) and stand back.

Also, if you have ever been to a Cubs/Cards game at Wrigley then you can see first hand how vicious the fans of these two clubs can be with each other. Of course this is mainly due to the ******** Cubs fans starting crap with Cards fans.

South Side Irish
04-30-2007, 06:44 PM
Yes, its a rivalry, and it may have a long history, but I wouldn't place it as any more heated than White Sox vs Twins or White Sox vs Indians these days. Now in the heartland of Illinois, you will see it a little more heated, but more because of the vast reach of Cardinal loyalty. Plus, don't believe for a minute that the Sox have no fan following downstate -- they just aren't as vocal because there is no AL opponent nearby, and they can watch Cards and Cub fans claw at each other. But I have been to White Sox gatherings in sports bars in places like Decauter and Bloomington where the place was packed with Sox fans.

Back when SI did their "profiles" of each state (2001/2?), they asked the question: "What is your favorite baseball team?" The Results: (something like) 50% Cubs, 26% Cardinals, 24% Sox. I love the Sox, but they don't have much of a following downstate. I lived there, and I have family still there. Until '05, there just wasn't a huge following.

This is really a joke of a thread. Ask any of us Cards fans, and we love to poke fun at 99 years just as much as Sox fans. Unlike the Sox, the Cards have actually had a hand in that futility, so it means something. Winning 10 World Series (man, that's so much better than writing 9!) since the cubs last won theirs helps, too. There have been some great, great games between the two.

The rivalry isn't just geographical, as families are divided over the rivalry throughout the Midwest, but based in competition. KMOX and WGN battled for the attention of fans, espcially before baseball out west. Even since, the great Midwest has been a fighting ground for whom had the most fans, namely in the 60's when both clubs had some truly great teams. Guess which one could cash in though? Hehe! Even though the Cubs can never win the WS, they've had some great years and great teams and great players that have made for some memorable moments.

I WISH the Sox had a team that was as much as a rival as the Cubs-Cards. Sox-Twins/Sox-Tribe has nothing on this.

Hitmen77
04-30-2007, 09:15 PM
And your point?

:dtroll:

Haven't you been listening to mshake? Wins are pretty much meaningless in baseball. Baseball is all about celebrity 7th inning stretches. The enthusiastic 7th inning stretches at the Cell don't count because there isn't some semi-famous person singing along. Now, only if Hawk would get on TV everyday to sing along and show up on YouTube - then Sox fans would finally understand the true meaning of baseball.:rolleyes:

johnr1note
05-01-2007, 09:48 AM
Back when SI did their "profiles" of each state (2001/2?), they asked the question: "What is your favorite baseball team?" The Results: (something like) 50% Cubs, 26% Cardinals, 24% Sox. I love the Sox, but they don't have much of a following downstate. I lived there, and I have family still there. Until '05, there just wasn't a huge following.

This is really a joke of a thread. Ask any of us Cards fans, and we love to poke fun at 99 years just as much as Sox fans. Unlike the Sox, the Cards have actually had a hand in that futility, so it means something. Winning 10 World Series (man, that's so much better than writing 9!) since the cubs last won theirs helps, too. There have been some great, great games between the two.

The rivalry isn't just geographical, as families are divided over the rivalry throughout the Midwest, but based in competition. KMOX and WGN battled for the attention of fans, espcially before baseball out west. Even since, the great Midwest has been a fighting ground for whom had the most fans, namely in the 60's when both clubs had some truly great teams. Guess which one could cash in though? Hehe! Even though the Cubs can never win the WS, they've had some great years and great teams and great players that have made for some memorable moments.

I WISH the Sox had a team that was as much as a rival as the Cubs-Cards. Sox-Twins/Sox-Tribe has nothing on this.

First off, I don't discount anything you say. The Cubs/Cards rivarly is big, to be sure, but I have never experienced it anywhere except central Illinois, and the occasional transplanted Cardinal fan who is now living in our midst. If it is, indeed, "all over the midwest," it is due to marketing acumen. Just this past week I was at an international conference. I wore a White Sox jersey to one of the sessions, and it generated more conversation than you can imagine. I got Tiger fans from West Michigan, Cubs fans from Evanston, Orioles and Yankee fans from the east all coming up to me and giving me "jabs." But the most interesting one was an old codger from West Louisiana, who was a Cardinal fan. I asked him how he had come to be a Cardinal fan -- and he said he grew up near Memphis TN, and the only team he could pick up on the radio was the Cardinals. We can't forget that the Cardinals had the first radio network, starting as far back as the late 1940s, and broadcast all across the upper midwest, west and south. I have found it amazing how many people in my age group and older who are from rural outposts in the far reaches of America who are big time Cardinals fans because of the combination of thier vast radio network in those days, plus the fat the team was generally pretty successful didn't hurt either. The Cubs chisled into that market with WGN TV in the 70s and 80s.

But I don't think the rivalry is as intense as it once was. Oh, its still big, but many of the rural outposts that were once bastions of either Cardinal radio or WGN TV now have affiliates that broadcast new teams that are closer in locality -- the Twins in Iowa and the Dakotas, for example, the Rockies and Mariners in the Northwest, and the Astros and Braves in the South.

And don't sell the Twins/Sox and Tribe/Sox rivalries short. They have been historically intense, but now since the Sox have won it all, they have been intensified incredilby, at least as far as the Twins and Indians fans are concerned. Been to a Sox game at Jacobs Field in the last two years?

Hitmen77
05-01-2007, 12:30 PM
Back when SI did their "profiles" of each state (2001/2?), they asked the question: "What is your favorite baseball team?" The Results: (something like) 50% Cubs, 26% Cardinals, 24% Sox. I love the Sox, but they don't have much of a following downstate. I lived there, and I have family still there. Until '05, there just wasn't a huge following.

This is really a joke of a thread. Ask any of us Cards fans, and we love to poke fun at 99 years just as much as Sox fans. Unlike the Sox, the Cards have actually had a hand in that futility, so it means something. Winning 10 World Series (man, that's so much better than writing 9!) since the cubs last won theirs helps, too. There have been some great, great games between the two.

The rivalry isn't just geographical, as families are divided over the rivalry throughout the Midwest, but based in competition. KMOX and WGN battled for the attention of fans, espcially before baseball out west. Even since, the great Midwest has been a fighting ground for whom had the most fans, namely in the 60's when both clubs had some truly great teams. Guess which one could cash in though? Hehe! Even though the Cubs can never win the WS, they've had some great years and great teams and great players that have made for some memorable moments.

I WISH the Sox had a team that was as much as a rival as the Cubs-Cards. Sox-Twins/Sox-Tribe has nothing on this.

You bring up some great points about this rivalry. I agree with most everything you said. However, I don't agree with the statement I bolded. Unless you go back before 1945 (before most current fans were born or can remember), the Cubs have had very few great years and great teams. What was it that Hangar used to proclaim? Four 90 win seasons in the last 60 years IIRC. In fact, aside from 2003, I can't remember any seasons where the Cubs and Cards were battling it out for 1st place. Interestingly, the rare "great" Cubs year seemed to coincide with the rare times in recent memory that the Cards were not in the race. That's very different than, say the Yankees/Red Sox or Giants/Dodgers.

Good comments about the lack of a similar rivalry for the Sox. I think we were hurt for years by being in the AL West while nearby Detroit, Cleveland and Milwaukee were in the East. Although the Twins were with us in the West, it seemed like our bigger nemisis was distant Oakland (see 1972 and 1990). I think the current AL Central alignment has really helped the Sox build some good rivalries - especially with the way the top 4 teams in the division are so competitive. I think this will help boost interest in the Sox here and region-wide. Actually, if KC instead of Milwaukee would have left for the NL in '98, we would have had an awesome "Great Lakes" division with the Sox, Tigers, Tribe, Twins, and Brewers. Even so, Sox-Cle-Minn-Det has the makings of a very good rivalry. Who knows, maybe someday KC will be able to become more intense rivals (like they were in '77).

BoysMom3
05-02-2007, 10:19 AM
It is a regional thing for the Cubs/Cards. I grew up near Joliet, and the only rivalry I knew of was the Cubs/Sox. When I moved to central IL, I kept hearing about Cubs and Cards fans and rivalries. I was stunned - I had never even heard of the Cards being in the mix for IL fans. And there aren't very many Sox fans down here, although I have been pleasantly surprised on occasion to find out about a few when I have worn a Sox shirt. My friends who are Cards fans absolutely hate the Cubs.