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LuzinskiFan
04-27-2007, 11:09 PM
As I said going into this season I think Kenny has assembled one of the greatest bullpens in MLB history this year. I feel confident when anyone of those 7 guys go out there and we are well balanced with 4 righties and 3 lefties and tons of power arms.

PAPChiSox729
04-27-2007, 11:18 PM
As I said going into this season I think Kenny has assembled one of the greatest bullpens in MLB history this year. I feel confident when anyone of those 7 guys go out there and we are well balanced with 4 righties and 3 lefties and tons of power arms.

I don't think so. I'm a huge Bobby fan, but until he gets into that 'lights-out' rhythm, there is no way this bullpen is even close to the best ever. I haven't seen that many bullpens since I'm relatively young, but I know that at the end of a great bullpen is a top-notch closer. Bobby isn't there yet.

Once he does get there, though, go ahead and speculate.
:cool:

JB98
04-27-2007, 11:19 PM
As I said going into this season I think Kenny has assembled one of the greatest bullpens in MLB history this year. I feel confident when anyone of those 7 guys go out there and we are well balanced with 4 righties and 3 lefties and tons of power arms.

It has the potential to be good, but these guys issue too many walks. We've already had two games where we lost after having the opposition down to its final out in the ninth. I wouldn't coronate them yet.

bryPt
04-27-2007, 11:19 PM
The Ranger said that everything is fine with BJ, so I believe him.

:smile:

Lets not jinks the boys, let them win the WS and then lets talk about greatest ever.

voodoochile
04-27-2007, 11:23 PM
I remember watching the Seattle bullpen in the late 90's and thinking, "Man it must be great to have guy after guy who can come in and throw that hard, that consistently."

The Toons and Twinkies used to have that same type of thing going on. Now it's our turn.

UserNameBlank
04-27-2007, 11:34 PM
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:DBQz-HjW6C6sFM:http://www.fmft.net/Kool-AidMan.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.fmft.net/Kool-AidMan.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.fmft.net/archives/cat_society.html&h=294&w=281&sz=25&hl=en&start=9&tbnid=DBQz-HjW6C6sFM:&tbnh=115&tbnw=110&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dkool%2Baid%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26h l%3Den)

I like 'em too, but I think the greatest bullpen ever is a bit of a stretch.

BanditJimmy
04-27-2007, 11:57 PM
As I said going into this season I think Kenny has assembled one of the greatest bullpens in MLB history this year. I feel confident when anyone of those 7 guys go out there and we are well balanced with 4 righties and 3 lefties and tons of power arms.


There are about 3-4 other bullpens in ML baseball today who are as good as ours.

Best in MLB history is a bit of stretch right now in April. Come October + another parade, then we can start talking.

oeo
04-27-2007, 11:58 PM
The last time we had one of these threads (like last week), it put the bullpen in its current slump. They're not even pitching that well right now, so don't anoint them the best in the league, let alone the best ever.

jabrch
04-28-2007, 12:00 AM
It's a good bullpen - but greatest ever? That's a stretch. It is good, and very young. Kenny did a great job. The best part about it is that it is deep, and we have talent in AA and AAA who will also be able to step in during the next two years.

hose
04-28-2007, 12:01 AM
Off the top of my head the Nasty Boys were better.

To say the Sox bullpen is one of the greats of all time....:o:

102605
04-28-2007, 12:07 AM
There are about 3-4 other bullpens in ML baseball today who are as good as ours.

I like our pen too but I also think there are better bullpens in MLB right now.

Padres and Twins come to mind off the top of my head.

Tragg
04-28-2007, 12:14 AM
It's a good bullpen - but greatest ever? That's a stretch. It is good, and very young. Kenny did a great job. The best part about it is that it is deep, and we have talent in AA and AAA who will also be able to step in during the next two years.
That's what I like best - we have at least 5 minor league arms that could probably step in right now - and another 5 that will be ready soon.
That will allow us to shore up weaknesses and some off-season FA losses that we'll probably have.

DrCrawdad
04-28-2007, 12:16 AM
As I said going into this season I think Kenny has assembled one of the greatest bullpens in MLB history this year. I feel confident when anyone of those 7 guys go out there and we are well balanced with 4 righties and 3 lefties and tons of power arms.

I would hope that you're correct. Way, way too early.

The problem or potential problem with this bullpen is throwing too many non-strikes (I hate to say "balls") and hence walking too many.

BanditJimmy
04-28-2007, 12:17 AM
It's a good bullpen - but greatest ever? That's a stretch. It is good, and very young. Kenny did a great job. The best part about it is that it is deep, and we have talent in AA and AAA who will also be able to step in during the next two years.


Just to throw a name - Dewon Day down at Birmingham.


Lookout for this guy.

8.2 IP and 21 Ks !!!!

Has a high WHIP also, but those K/9 are insane in any level.


I think right now the Twins and Angels have bullpens better than ours.

The Tiger pen is goin to hit the wall extremely hard this year and they are already seeing it with Zumaya and Rodney. Zumaya blew another game tonight!

I think the best bullpen in our division will probably win the division. This will be between us an the Twins.

cws05champ
04-28-2007, 12:47 AM
I think we have the best Churros in the league!!! :D:

TDog
04-28-2007, 12:55 AM
I like our pen too but I also think there are better bullpens in MLB right now.

Padres and Twins come to mind off the top of my head.

I don't know about the Padres -- literally. I pay little attention to the National League and couldn't name anyone in their bullpen.

I think the Sox bullpen is better than the Twins', though. At least it should be. The Sox have better arms. Nathan may be better than Jenks, but Nathan has given up 16 hits in 12.1 innings and lost a bad game to Tampa Bay. Excluding his worst game, Nathan came into tonight's action allowing more hits than innings pitched. If people think Jenks makes them nervous, I can only imagine how some of Nathan's outings would make them feel. The back of the Twins bullpen should be weaker as well.

I expressed my views on the quality of the Sox bullpen and what it would take for it to be great in the last thread. All you can say is the potential is there. But people rave about the Angels pen, and the Sox added runs in the 8th tonight. People rave about the Tigers pen, and the Sox scored off of Tigers reliever in four of four games this year.

You don't know how good a bullpen is until October, and by then you can't do anything about it to do anything about it.

skobabe8
04-28-2007, 01:15 AM
Any bullpen that has Boone Logan cannot be considered the greatest ever.

chisoxmike
04-28-2007, 01:21 AM
As I said going into this season I think Kenny has assembled one of the greatest bullpens in MLB history this year. I feel confident when anyone of those 7 guys go out there and we are well balanced with 4 righties and 3 lefties and tons of power arms.

http://www.michaelbarrier.com/Commentary/Live_Action_Walt/Pollyanna.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00005RRGB/michaelbarrie-20/104-7429620-0269532?dev-t=mason-wrapper%26camp=2025%26link_code=xm2)
"Even I think that's extreme."

UserNameBlank
04-28-2007, 01:24 AM
Any bullpen that has Boone Logan cannot be considered the greatest ever.
I think Boone is being showcased. My guess would be that he'll probably stay up until one of Hall/Pods comes back or until KW acquires someone, which ever happens first.

TDog
04-28-2007, 11:37 AM
Any bullpen that has Boone Logan cannot be considered the greatest ever.


Boone Logan gave up a hit that lost a game for the Sox. People act as if he single-handedly lost the game. He didn't even create the problem. The only runs he gave up were in the third inning of a mop-up assignment. In the most recent game in KC, Logan kept the Sox in a game they won on a night when other relievers were less successful. Matt Thornton has blown three saves, failing to protect late-inning leads. The first blown save against Cleveland came with two outs and no one in scoring position. His track record this season is less impressive than Logan's. It is hardly a given that Thornton would have done the job that Logan didn't do in extra innings in Detroit.

Logan is less experienced, but has shown flashes of potential. He is only on the team because of injuries to non-pitchers. Molina will go down when Hall comes back, but Logan may go down when Pods comes back. Still, every team has pitchers similar to Logan at the back of their bullpen. On some teams, you don't have to go deep to find a Boone Logan.

Lip Man 1
04-28-2007, 11:40 AM
This bullpen isn't even the "greatest" in the franchise's history let alone in MLB.

The finest Sox bullpens took place particularly in the seasons between 1964 through say 1967.

Lip

skobabe8
04-28-2007, 12:13 PM
Boone Logan gave up a hit that lost a game for the Sox. People act as if he single-handedly lost the game. He didn't even create the problem. The only runs he gave up were in the third inning of a mop-up assignment. In the most recent game in KC, Logan kept the Sox in a game they won on a night when other relievers were less successful. Matt Thornton has blown three saves, failing to protect late-inning leads. The first blown save against Cleveland came with two outs and no one in scoring position. His track record this season is less impressive than Logan's. It is hardly a given that Thornton would have done the job that Logan didn't do in extra innings in Detroit.

Logan is less experienced, but has shown flashes of potential. He is only on the team because of injuries to non-pitchers. Molina will go down when Hall comes back, but Logan may go down when Pods comes back. Still, every team has pitchers similar to Logan at the back of their bullpen. On some teams, you don't have to go deep to find a Boone Logan.

If I based all of my opinions on the first 21 games of the season, I would also have to hate on half of our position players who are hitting less than .250, Contreras' +5 ERA and Thornton's +7. But I don't worry about those guys. Why? Because I've seen what they can do for more than a handful of games.

I said in the game thread when Logan gave up that game winning hit to Detroit that he wasn't to blame, but I still really hated him. I dont base my opinions on a couple of outings. Believe me. His 2006 has alot to do with my opinion.

Brian26
04-28-2007, 01:42 PM
This bullpen isn't even the "greatest" in the franchise's history let alone in MLB.

The finest Sox bullpens took place particularly in the seasons between 1964 through say 1967.

Lip

I'm too young to remember those, Lip, but the best Sox bullpen I've ever seen was the 1990 version.

Thigpen - closer w/ 57 saves
Radinsky - lefty fireballer, set-up man, probably could have been a closer on another team
Barry Jones- long-man, vulcher, w/ 9 wins (only melt down was the Milwaukee turn-back-the-clock game)
Wayne Edwards - LOOGY
Don Pall - had a great ERA that year and was a great right-handed set up man
Ken Patterson - 3rd lefty in the bullpen, did a nice job

TheVulture
04-28-2007, 04:16 PM
This bullpen isn't even the "greatest" in the franchise's history let alone in MLB.

The finest Sox bullpens took place particularly in the seasons between 1964 through say 1967.

Lip

That 2005 pen wasn't too shabby, either.

Lip Man 1
04-28-2007, 05:00 PM
Brian:

That 64 bullpen especially with Wilhelm, Fisher and Mossi leading the way was an absolute killer. In 67 they added Don McMahon and a guy named Wilbur Wood.

Lip

SpartanSoxFan
04-28-2007, 05:43 PM
Any bullpen that has Boone Logan is NOT the best in history, period.

That said, the potential is there with flamethrowers like Thornton, MacDougal, Sisqo and Jenks. Aardsma has been very good with the exception of the blown save versus Detroit.

TDog
04-29-2007, 12:14 AM
If I based all of my opinions on the first 21 games of the season, I would also have to hate on half of our position players who are hitting less than .250, Contreras' +5 ERA and Thornton's +7. But I don't worry about those guys. Why? Because I've seen what they can do for more than a handful of games.

I said in the game thread when Logan gave up that game winning hit to Detroit that he wasn't to blame, but I still really hated him. I dont base my opinions on a couple of outings. Believe me. His 2006 has alot to do with my opinion.

Pitching skills can seem to disappear in a hurry. That is more true with good relievers than starters. If a guy has one or two good seasons out of the bullpen, it doesn't mean he's always going to be a consistently good pitcher. There was a time when Damaso Marte looked like the best pitcher on the Sox staff, but most people around here think of him walking the bases loaded in Fenway. I have as much faith in Logan as I do in Thornton.

I hope Thornton proves me wrong, and I hope I'm underestimating Logan. But even if a guy unhittable one year, he can look like a batting practice pitcher the next. Every year, it seems, there is a new example in the Sox bullpen. We'll have to see if that can be avoided in 2007.

balke
04-29-2007, 12:20 AM
First off, we don't have the best bullpen in history that I know of. Ask me at the end of the season, but I doubt it.

Secondly, Logan's doing pretty well this season. He's no closer, but he's getting the job done from what I've seen. I'm hoping everyone can fire on all cylinders early, and possibly open the door for a good trade for the Sox if we decide there's a hole that needs filled in the lineup.

areilly
04-29-2007, 08:38 PM
The 2007 Sox' bullpen as the best in history? Absolutely not. Not even close. Not even the best in team history, let alone in the league right now.

sox1970
04-29-2007, 10:10 PM
Wayne Edwards, Ken Patterson, Scott Radinsky on the left.
Donn Pall, Barry Jones, Bobby Thigpen on the right.

1990.

FedEx227
04-29-2007, 10:12 PM
Very unreasonable to say when we aren't even the best bullpen in our division.

sox1970
05-08-2007, 11:27 PM
Thought I'd revive this thread. Seemed like a good time.

BanditJimmy
05-08-2007, 11:31 PM
Thought I'd revive this thread. Seemed like a good time.


Good call in finding this one.


This is why we need to stop drinking Kool Aide in April and wait until August before we start claiming greatness.


A bullpen that cannot hold a 3 run lead in the 8th inning is very average in my book.

hose
05-09-2007, 07:21 AM
Thought I'd revive this thread. Seemed like a good time.

I thought of this thread last night.....after the game.:o:

LuzinskiFan
05-09-2007, 09:05 AM
Okay, you guys made your point. I was just excited with the velocity that these guys can bring to the plate, just being a fan.

skobabe8
05-09-2007, 10:08 AM
Okay, you guys made your point. I was just excited with the velocity that these guys can bring to the plate, just being a fan.

haha...Luzinksi, you poor guy. You get beat up pretty good the first time. And now everytime the bullpen explodes, someones gonna go find his thread and beat you up again. LOL :D:

jabrch
05-09-2007, 10:36 AM
Okay, you guys made your point. I was just excited with the velocity that these guys can bring to the plate, just being a fan.


This bullpen still is exciting. It still is excellent. McDougal still is an outstanding setup guy.

Yesterday sucked. That's it. Move on.

champagne030
05-09-2007, 11:00 AM
This bullpen still is exciting. It still is excellent. McDougal still is an outstanding setup guy.

Yesterday sucked. That's it. Move on.

:rolleyes:

The bullpen may have the potential to be excellent, but it's has not been anywhere close to excellent this season.

7 blown saves in 17 chances = not excellent.
1.35 WHIP = not excellent.
1.98K/BB = not excellent.
3.83 ERA = not excellent.

Yes, 8.4K/9 borders on excellent, but they're performing poorly in a couple of other area's.

Bobby Jenks
05-09-2007, 01:10 PM
We don't even have the best pen in the central,much less all time.