PDA

View Full Version : Common Sense Scoring Change


wilburaga
04-26-2007, 09:31 AM
I was perusng the box scores, and I saw that Cleveland's Joe Borowski was charged with a blown save last night, his first of the season. Wait a minute, thought I, didn't I see him melt down against the Yankees last week, giving up 6 runs with two outs in the bottom of the ninth against the Yankees, ending the game with a walk off gopher ball to A-Rod? Indeed I did, but it turns out that since he didn't enter the game in a save situation he doesn't get charged with a blown save even though he blew the game.

New Rule - Even if you did not enter the game in a save situation, if you give up enough runs to turn it into what would be a save situation, and subsequently blow that theoretical save, you are charged with a blown save. Common sense.

W

SBSoxFan
04-26-2007, 09:48 AM
Well, he does get charged with a loss. The goofy thing is that if he were taken out and Cleveland won the game, he probably would have been credited with a 'hold'.

krohnjw
04-26-2007, 09:53 AM
Would he be charged with the L and the BS? I think if they did that they would have to allow the flip side also, (W and S possible).

SBSoxFan
04-26-2007, 09:55 AM
Would he be charged with the L and the BS? I think if they did that they would have to allow the flip side also, (W and S possible).

It's already possible to get charged with a BS and an L; you just have to enter the game in a save situation and then have the winning run be charged to you. The latter, on the other hand, is not possible. A save, by definition, means someone else gets the win.

itsnotrequired
04-26-2007, 09:55 AM
New Rule - Even if you did not enter the game in a save situation, if you give up enough runs to turn it into what would be a save situation, and subsequently blow that theoretical save, you are charged with a blown save. Common sense.

W

I wasn't aware we were rewriting the MLB rules. You can't blow a save situation if you are not in one just like you can't pitch yourself into a save situation.

The rules are fine the way they are.

sox1970
04-26-2007, 09:58 AM
How can you blow a save if there was no save to get?

The only scoring change I'd like to see is giving the official scorer discretion in handing out wins and losses for relievers.

champagne030
04-26-2007, 10:11 AM
Well, he does get charged with a loss. The goofy thing is that if he were taken out and Cleveland won the game, he probably would have been credited with a 'hold'.

He wouldn't have received a hold in that situation. Also, a hold is not an official MLB stat.

SBSoxFan
04-26-2007, 10:31 AM
He wouldn't have received a hold in that situation. Also, a hold is not an official MLB stat.

I don't know. I see it on box scores all the time. A guy gets a hold if the tying run isn't charged to him regardless of how crappy his line might be. Hell, I've even seen holds listed for guys who didn't retire a batter! And if it's not an official stat it shouldn't be tracked, imo.

champagne030
04-26-2007, 11:30 AM
I don't know. I see it on box scores all the time. A guy gets a hold if the tying run isn't charged to him regardless of how crappy his line might be. Hell, I've even seen holds listed for guys who didn't retire a batter! And if it's not an official stat it shouldn't be tracked, imo.

In 1986, John Dewan and Mike O'Donnell from The Chicago Baseball Record were the first to propose the "hold" statistic, which was defined by the following conditions:
"A hold is awarded whenever a pitcher enters the game with a lead of three runs or less and leaves without having relinquished the lead."
This is the definition used by Sports Ticker, the company who provides the box scores to Yahoo!, USA Today and various other entities.

However, a second definition, used by STATS, Inc. adds the following stipulation:
"the pitcher must get at least one out, and can also be awarded a hold if he pitches three innings or more without giving up the lead, even if the lead was more than three runs."

To make matters more confusing, ESPN uses STATS, Inc. while Yahoo/USA Today uses Sports Tickers. Since these are the two most prevalently used sources of statistical information, there is an abundance of discrepancies present in the recent history books.

wilburaga
04-26-2007, 11:54 AM
In 1986, John Dewan and Mike O'Donnell from The Chicago Baseball Record were the first to propose the "hold" statistic, which was defined by the following conditions:
"A hold is awarded whenever a pitcher enters the game with a lead of three runs or less and leaves without having relinquished the lead."
This is the definition used by Sports Ticker, the company who provides the box scores to Yahoo!, USA Today and various other entities.

However, a second definition, used by STATS, Inc. adds the following stipulation:
"the pitcher must get at least one out, and can also be awarded a hold if he pitches three innings or more without giving up the lead, even if the lead was more than three runs."

To make matters more confusing, ESPN uses STATS, Inc. while Yahoo/USA Today uses Sports Tickers. Since these are the two most prevalently used sources of statistical information, there is an abundance of discrepancies present in the recent history books.

Thank you. I've always sensed there was some discrepancy in the manner in which holds were awarded. Certainly, the STATS approach is the more reasonable - you should retire at least one batter.

In the end, though, the hold is not a particularly illuminating stat. I think it's headed down the path of the GWRBI.

W

Chicken Dinner
04-26-2007, 12:44 PM
I would rather see the rule changed that gives a relief pitcher the win for only pitching 1 inning because the starter doesn't get through 5 innings.