PDA

View Full Version : *official* It Is Only One Loss 4/25/2007 Post Game Thread


MCHSoxFan
04-25-2007, 09:57 PM
Like the title of the thread suggests. It is only one loss. I am not saying that makes it okay, but it is not the end of the world. I really wanted the Sox to win so Danks could get a win. At least the Twins lost. LET'S GET EM TOMORROW!!! :angry: :angry: :angry: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner: :(: :(: :(:

slobes
04-25-2007, 09:59 PM
Hey it's not over yet...

Ah sorry just saw your edit

AJ Hellraiser
04-25-2007, 09:59 PM
****ING PATHETIC....

Pods out until June, Thome with what will surely be a nagging rib injury, Mack leaves the game, Anderson has absolutely no clue at the plate and needs to be sent down ASAP... Dye with a nagging back injury... AJ, Crede, Erstad can't get their average above .230...

Anyone still worried with some things here?

MCHSoxFan
04-25-2007, 10:00 PM
Hey it's not over yet...

I know. I clicked the mouse while typing it up. I AM SORRY. SPREAD THE WORD.

thomas35forever
04-25-2007, 10:01 PM
****ING PATHETIC....

Pods out until June, Thome with what will surely be a nagging rib injury, Mack leaves the game, Anderson has absolutely no clue at the plate and needs to be sent down ASAP... Dye with a nagging back injury... AJ, Crede, Erstad can't get their average above .230...

Anyone still worried with some things here?
:darkclouds:

voodoochile
04-25-2007, 10:01 PM
****ING PATHETIC....

Pods out until June, Thome with what will surely be a nagging rib injury, Mack leaves the game, Anderson has absolutely no clue at the plate and needs to be sent down ASAP... Dye with a nagging back injury... AJ, Crede, Erstad can't get their average above .230...

Anyone still worried with some things here?

*****!

Great parody of a dark cloud...

You were being funny weren't you? :rolleyes:

getonbckthr
04-25-2007, 10:03 PM
Could we let the game end before we make a post game thread

AJ Hellraiser
04-25-2007, 10:04 PM
*****!

Great parody of a dark cloud...

You were being funny weren't you? :rolleyes:

Injuries are always a concern.... but, I know the hitting will come around.. just wish it would come around quicker than it is...

sox1970
04-25-2007, 10:05 PM
I hope this is the Dewey Beats Truman of post game threads.

JDub35
04-25-2007, 10:06 PM
I hope this is the Dewey Beats Truman of post game threads.

Awesome. :D:

kevingrt
04-25-2007, 10:07 PM
This is awesome!

oeo
04-25-2007, 10:08 PM
****ING PATHETIC....

Pods out until June, Thome with what will surely be a nagging rib injury, Mack leaves the game, Anderson has absolutely no clue at the plate and needs to be sent down ASAP... Dye with a nagging back injury... AJ, Crede, Erstad can't get their average above .230...

Anyone still worried with some things here?

I'm a little worried about your health, but that's about it.

cbotnyse
04-25-2007, 10:08 PM
:?:

zach074
04-25-2007, 10:12 PM
6-0 is less painful.

thomas35forever
04-25-2007, 10:13 PM
I hope this is the Dewey Beats Truman of post game threads.
Not to be, my friend.

slobes
04-25-2007, 10:13 PM
Glad to see we didn't just roll over and die, but a loss is a loss. Hopefully we bring a bit more offense tomorrow.

oeo
04-25-2007, 10:13 PM
6-0 is less painful.

How so? We did nothing to earn those two runs in the 9th, that was all Zumaya. The score looks better and we still didn't do anything. If Boone doesn't give up those 2 runs, Zumaya would have been on a shorter leash.

Jjav829
04-25-2007, 10:14 PM
Damnit. If only Thome or Dye was healthy enough to pinch hit for BAAAA. It's not like he was going to keep the game going. :(:

StepsInSC
04-25-2007, 10:14 PM
How many bats were broken tonight? I recall 2 of Erstad's and BA's on the final AB, but it seemd like more....sheesh.

Navarro's Talent
04-25-2007, 10:14 PM
Well, that was an interesting way to end a game. Too bad Paulie had to ground into that double play in the ninth.

peelwonder
04-25-2007, 10:14 PM
I know we can't blame BA but...but did anybody have any confidence in the 9th that he'd get a hit?

AnkleSox
04-25-2007, 10:14 PM
ive supported anderson but my faith is waning...:whiner:

Jurr
04-25-2007, 10:14 PM
Well, sometimes you're hot and sometimes you're not. That's where the 60W/60L theory comes in. Thank God the Sox have been winning a handful of those "either way" games.

Meanwhile, Minnesota has the new mantle of "We can't beat KC '07".

Great job by the Sox making it interesting at the end. Hopefully they carry a little momentum over to tomorrow night. Jose better not give up a bunch in the first inning.

gobears1987
04-25-2007, 10:14 PM
Where are all the BA supporters now? There is a reason Erstad deserves to start.

HotelWhiteSox
04-25-2007, 10:14 PM
Interesting at the end, but the offense sucked, plus what do you expect at the end of the game when your manager already gives up before it's over, Boone 3 IP?

JDub35
04-25-2007, 10:14 PM
Made them sweat a bit and ended on a positive for tomorrow's game.

pearso66
04-25-2007, 10:15 PM
****ING PATHETIC....

Pods out until June, Thome with what will surely be a nagging rib injury, Mack leaves the game, Anderson has absolutely no clue at the plate and needs to be sent down ASAP... Dye with a nagging back injury... AJ, Crede, Erstad can't get their average above .230...

Anyone still worried with some things here?

Could it possibly be a lack of plate appearances that makes Anderson look like he has no clue at the plate? My guess would be yes. Call me a Brian Anderson apologist, but he should be starting, in the field, at least 3-4 times a week. Especially with Pods out. Now that Mack is down, watch Ozuna get all the playing time.

hi im skot
04-25-2007, 10:15 PM
What more can you say, except get 'em tomorrow.

slobes
04-25-2007, 10:15 PM
I know we can't blame BA but...but did anybody have any confidence in the 9th that he'd get a hit?

I felt like if he didn't get walked, the game would end. And it did.

VenturaFan23
04-25-2007, 10:16 PM
Yeah the pitching wasn't good, but where the hell was the clutch hitting tonight??

gobears1987
04-25-2007, 10:16 PM
I know we can't blame BA but...but did anybody have any confidence in the 9th that he'd get a hit?No, I think it makes more sense to call up Sweeney and send BA down.

balke
04-25-2007, 10:16 PM
Anderson's not going anywhere with these injuries. Wish I could've seen the game, sucks for him he made the last out. Things are looking worse and worse for this guy.

Lorenzo Barcelo
04-25-2007, 10:16 PM
I didnt catch any of the game what happened to Rob?

Jurr
04-25-2007, 10:16 PM
What more can you say, except get 'em tomorrow.
Yup. Get in at 3 AM. Rook pitching (though admirably), and the heart of the order's on the bench. Charge it.

fuzzy_patters
04-25-2007, 10:16 PM
Could it possibly be a lack of plate appearances that makes Anderson look like he has no clue at the plate? My guess would be yes. Call me a Brian Anderson apologist, but he should be starting, in the field, at least 3-4 times a week. Especially with Pods out. Now that Mack is down, watch Ozuna get all the playing time.

His problems the first half of last year were due to a lack of plate appearances, too.

JB98
04-25-2007, 10:16 PM
Damnit. If only Thome or Dye was healthy enough to pinch hit for BAAAA. It's not like he was going to keep the game going. :(:

I thought I read in the paper today that Jimmy could pinch-hit if we needed him. Well, we needed him, but he wasn't used. I sure hope this injury isn't serious.

We missed Thome and Dye big time tonight.

Good job by Logan. Eat up those innings. Bullpen should be fresh tomorrow.

peelwonder
04-25-2007, 10:17 PM
Could it possibly be a lack of plate appearances that makes Anderson look like he has no clue at the plate? My guess would be yes. Call me a Brian Anderson apologist, but he should be starting, in the field, at least 3-4 times a week. Especially with Pods out. Now that Mack is down, watch Ozuna get all the playing time.


Are you ****ing kidding me....

His nickname around me and my buddies is rally killer.....

.225 last year doesn't look like a fluke either...

DickAllen72
04-25-2007, 10:17 PM
Now that Mack is down, watch Ozuna get all the playing time.
I love Pablo, he's one of my favorite players on this roster---but can't we pick up a real major league outfielder?

gobears1987
04-25-2007, 10:17 PM
Could it possibly be a lack of plate appearances that makes Anderson look like he has no clue at the plate? My guess would be yes. Call me a Brian Anderson apologist, but he should be starting, in the field, at least 3-4 times a week. Especially with Pods out. Now that Mack is down, watch Ozuna get all the playing time.As it should be. LF is NOT a defensive position. It is a position where you put a good batter in.

Erstad is superior to BA in CF. BA might have a slightly better glove, but Erstad's bat is far superior to BA's.

Oh, and BA had regular ABs. He plain out sucked then too.

Corlose 15
04-25-2007, 10:18 PM
Only getting 3 hits off of Durbin is aboslutely PATHETIC. :angry:

thomas35forever
04-25-2007, 10:18 PM
Any word on how much longer Thome and Dye will be out?

Patrick134
04-25-2007, 10:18 PM
Could it possibly be a lack of plate appearances that makes Anderson look like he has no clue at the plate? My guess would be yes. Call me a Brian Anderson apologist, but he should be starting, in the field, at least 3-4 times a week. Especially with Pods out. Now that Mack is down, watch Ozuna get all the playing time.


I second that, I say BAAA should start all Knight games.

oeo
04-25-2007, 10:19 PM
Could it possibly be a lack of plate appearances that makes Anderson look like he has no clue at the plate? My guess would be yes. Call me a Brian Anderson apologist, but he should be starting, in the field, at least 3-4 times a week. Especially with Pods out. Now that Mack is down, watch Ozuna get all the playing time.

I don't know...I've been behind Brian since day one, and I'm starting to question his ability. I don't know if he has what it takes to be a good everyday player. Of course it's still too early to tell, but some things that he should have improved upon from last year, are still lacking.

gobears1987
04-25-2007, 10:19 PM
I second that, I say BAAA should start all Knight games.
I'll third that.

I hope all of the BA supporters apologize to Ozzie. Ozzie has been right all along to put BA's ass on the pine.

Jurr
04-25-2007, 10:20 PM
I second that, I say BAAA should start all Knight games.
It wasn't like the kid was tearing up AAA pitching, either. It's not like Crede, who was an All-World AAA player. With Crede, you had a feeling that he'd come around. Not so sure with Anderson.

gobears1987
04-25-2007, 10:20 PM
Any word on how much longer Thome and Dye will be out?
Dye should start tomorrow.

HotelWhiteSox
04-25-2007, 10:20 PM
Like I said in the game thread, let's all rip on the #9 hitter who plays once a week. The one who's here for his D, and starts at DH. It all came down to him right, as long as you ignore no one could even get multiple hits against a 10+ ERA

JB98
04-25-2007, 10:20 PM
Could it possibly be a lack of plate appearances that makes Anderson look like he has no clue at the plate? My guess would be yes. Call me a Brian Anderson apologist, but he should be starting, in the field, at least 3-4 times a week. Especially with Pods out. Now that Mack is down, watch Ozuna get all the playing time.

The theory would be more plausible if Anderson had shown us anything offensively last season when he had 400 big-league ABs.

kevingrt
04-25-2007, 10:20 PM
I know we can't blame BA but...but did anybody have any confidence in the 9th that he'd get a hit?

No I was hoping for a walk especially after the count went 3-1 but the last two pitches were strikes and BA had to swing and ground out

pearso66
04-25-2007, 10:20 PM
Are you ****ing kidding me....

His nickname around me and my buddies is rally killer.....

.225 last year doesn't look like a fluke either...


Well I'm glad the Sox gave up on Crede after his horrible first year. And I'm glad the Sox gave up on Konerko after his horrible year in 03 or 04 (I don't remember which). It wasn't like Sox batters were killing Zumaya and Anderson came up and couldn't do anything. Zumaya put the Sox in that position by losing home plate. And it wasn't like Anderson was the only one not doing anything today. But I guess it makes sense to jump on the guy who made the final out, instead of the others who helped in the previous 26, including a DP by Konerko in the 9th

ChiSoxGirl
04-25-2007, 10:21 PM
Where are all the BA supporters now? There is a reason Erstad deserves to start.

I've kept quiet about my feelings on Anderson because he gets so much love on this site and I don't like controversy, but tonight's game and your post are finally getting it out of me.... I'm tired of the Anderson Experiment!!!!

People hate on me (not necessarily on this site) for supporting Podsednik through the good and the bad, but at least Podsednik's had some good to show us at the plate! Tell me the last time BA had a clutch hit... or any hit for that matter! I understand he's a great outfielder and I'm not denying that, but show us something at the dish already!

balke
04-25-2007, 10:21 PM
Blah blah blah ANDERSON SMANDERSON. ERSTAD SMERSTAD.

Anderson lovers, he sucks so far. He sucked last season. Anderson haters, adapt, we got injuries.

BA is going to play, best you can do is cheer him on.

I'm excited to see Contreres tomorrow, the way he was pitching last week has my interest peaked. He had two different release points, and was rocking hitters to sleep after a rough first inning.

gobears1987
04-25-2007, 10:22 PM
Well I'm glad the Sox gave up on Crede after his horrible first year. And I'm glad the Sox gave up on Konerko after his horrible year in 03 or 04 (I don't remember which). It wasn't like Sox batters were killing Zumaya and Anderson came up and couldn't do anything. Zumaya put the Sox in that position by losing home plate. And it wasn't like Anderson was the only one not doing anything today. But I guess it makes sense to jump on the guy who made the final out, instead of the others who helped in the previous 26, including a DP by Konerko in the 9th
Crede at least showed us in AAA that he had potential. BA has never shown us anything at any level of baseball. He was average in AAA. Crede was an all-star in AAA.

sox1970
04-25-2007, 10:22 PM
Brian Anderson is the worst hitter with a good count I've ever seen. You give him a 2-1 or 3-1 count, and he still swings like a Sally.

Patrick134
04-25-2007, 10:22 PM
Brian Anderson is the worst hitter with a good count I've ever seen. You give him a 2-1 or 3-1 count, and he still swings like a Sally.

Amen, that 3-1 was a cookie, and he looked silly.

ChiSoxGirl
04-25-2007, 10:23 PM
Yeah the pitching wasn't good, but where the hell was the clutch hitting tonight??

Clutch hitting? Where was the HITTING?! Three hits??? :?:

gobears1987
04-25-2007, 10:23 PM
People hate on me (not necessarily on this site) for supporting Podsednik through the good and the bad, but at least Podsednik's had some good to show us at the plate! Tell me the last time BA had a clutch hit... or any hit for that matter! I understand he's a great outfielder and I'm not denying that, but show us something at the dish already!
I'm still a supporter of Pods too. When Pods is healthy, he is a dangerous weapon. Even in the few weeks he played we had a chance to see how he can screw with a pitcher's mind and cause the pitcher to throw the ball away into the OF.

oeo
04-25-2007, 10:24 PM
Well I'm glad the Sox gave up on Crede after his horrible first year. And I'm glad the Sox gave up on Konerko after his horrible year in 03 or 04 (I don't remember which). It wasn't like Sox batters were killing Zumaya and Anderson came up and couldn't do anything. Zumaya put the Sox in that position by losing home plate. And it wasn't like Anderson was the only one not doing anything today. But I guess it makes sense to jump on the guy who made the final out, instead of the others who helped in the previous 26, including a DP by Konerko in the 9th

Stop the comparisons between Anderson and Crede; they don't exist.

gobears1987
04-25-2007, 10:24 PM
Amen, that 3-1 was a cookie, and he looked silly.During an earlier AB, he got two great pitches to crush and K'd.

Jurr
04-25-2007, 10:24 PM
Well I'm glad the Sox gave up on Crede after his horrible first year. And I'm glad the Sox gave up on Konerko after his horrible year in 03 or 04 (I don't remember which). It wasn't like Sox batters were killing Zumaya and Anderson came up and couldn't do anything. Zumaya put the Sox in that position by losing home plate. And it wasn't like Anderson was the only one not doing anything today. But I guess it makes sense to jump on the guy who made the final out, instead of the others who helped in the previous 26, including a DP by Konerko in the 9th
If you remember, Crede came to the Sox like gangbusters as a late season call-up. He hit .285 and hit 12 bombs in a handful of starts in 2002. He showed he could play. Same for Konerko before the '03 slump.

What the hell has Anderson done in any of his time on the roster?

Thank you.

JB98
04-25-2007, 10:25 PM
Well I'm glad the Sox gave up on Crede after his horrible first year. And I'm glad the Sox gave up on Konerko after his horrible year in 03 or 04 (I don't remember which). It wasn't like Sox batters were killing Zumaya and Anderson came up and couldn't do anything. Zumaya put the Sox in that position by losing home plate. And it wasn't like Anderson was the only one not doing anything today. But I guess it makes sense to jump on the guy who made the final out, instead of the others who helped in the previous 26, including a DP by Konerko in the 9th

Konerko had an established major-league track record when he had his bad year in 2003. Crede never struck out at the alarming rate that Anderson does. Even when Joe was struggling, he got the occasional big hit for this team. There were always signs that he'd eventually come around. BA just looks lost.

Regardless, neither Paul Konerko nor Joe Crede have anything to do with Brian Anderson.

And yes, the whole team sucked offensively tonight. That fact is not in dispute.

Jurr
04-25-2007, 10:26 PM
Clutch hitting? Where was the HITTING?! Three hits??? :?:
What's funny about that is perspective. Detroit fans are saying, "Durbin was awesome tonight, making that curve look very enticing to hitters. Breakout game for Chad!!!"

Sox fans assume that it was terrible hitting. Maybe the kid was just money tonight. It still pisses us off, but it was just one of those nights.

fuzzy_patters
04-25-2007, 10:26 PM
Well I'm glad the Sox gave up on Crede after his horrible first year. And I'm glad the Sox gave up on Konerko after his horrible year in 03 or 04 (I don't remember which). It wasn't like Sox batters were killing Zumaya and Anderson came up and couldn't do anything. Zumaya put the Sox in that position by losing home plate. And it wasn't like Anderson was the only one not doing anything today. But I guess it makes sense to jump on the guy who made the final out, instead of the others who helped in the previous 26, including a DP by Konerko in the 9th

Actually, the Sox sent Crede back down after he hit .220 in 2001, which is what they should do with Anderson. When Crede came up for his first full season, he hit .261 with 19 homeruns in 2003. If Anderson had done that last year, we could cut him some slack.

As for Konerko, he was already a proven major leaguer. The Sox knew he would come around eventually. There is no proven track record that Anderson will.

gobears1987
04-25-2007, 10:27 PM
If you remember, Crede came to the Sox like gangbusters as a late season call-up. He hit .285 and hit 12 bombs in a handful of starts in 2002. He showed he could play. Same for Konerko before the '03 slump.

What the hell has Anderson done in any of his time on the roster?

Thank you.Even when Crede hit .239 in 2004, he showed 20+ HR power and was clutch. BTW, in his first full season he hit over .260 with 75 RBIs.

pearso66
04-25-2007, 10:28 PM
If you remember, Crede came to the Sox like gangbusters as a late season call-up. He hit .285 and hit 12 bombs in a handful of starts in 2002. He showed he could play. Same for Konerko before the '03 slump.

What the hell has Anderson done in any of his time on the roster?

Thank you.

Honestly, I don't remember how Crede did in 03. I do think if Anderson isn't getting the playing time, or the chance to show he belongs in the majors, he should be in AAA. He's still young, and has a chance to succeed, but not by playing once a week. Yeah, I'm an Anderson supporter, but I was mainly sticking up for him because of what seemed like people blaming him for the loss tonight.

Patrick134
04-25-2007, 10:29 PM
Danks is getting screwed. In his 22 innings pitched this year the sox have only scored 2 runs while he's been in the game.

getonbckthr
04-25-2007, 10:31 PM
During an earlier AB, he got two great pitches to crush and K'd.
It comes with timing, timing comes with at bats, Ozzie has only given Brian at bats this season because of injury. Last season Brian struggles in the first half but performed much better in the 2nd half and oh by the way it was his rookie season. Sorry not all rookies can be of the Pujols and Howard variety. As far as the 9th inning at bat, we have a kid who has had minimal at bats this season and we are expecting him to fly out of the gates and mash. Also bases loaded tying run at the plate 2 outs 2 of our best hitters, a little banged up, are sitting on the bench and we have a 2nd year player with minimal at bats hmmmmm who should get the at bat here? Either Thome or Dye should have gotten the at bat.

Jurr
04-25-2007, 10:31 PM
Honestly, I don't remember how Crede did in 03. I do think if Anderson isn't getting the playing time, or the chance to show he belongs in the majors, he should be in AAA. He's still young, and has a chance to succeed, but not by playing once a week. Yeah, I'm an Anderson supporter, but I was mainly sticking up for him because of what seemed like people blaming him for the loss tonight.
Something happened to Anderson in '05. He had never been a big K guy, but struck out 115 times his first season in Charlotte. Since then, his K/AB has been crazy. The kid has lost his confidence and obviously doesn't have an approach that's going to help him. He needs to escape scrutiny and spend a few months carrying his own bags and living on White Castle.

Viva Medias B's
04-25-2007, 10:32 PM
Anderson needs to be sent down to Charlotte. Honestly, can Ryan Sweeney or Jerry Owens do any worse up here than BA?

102605
04-25-2007, 10:32 PM
BAAAA

LOL

Patrick134
04-25-2007, 10:33 PM
Something happened to Anderson in '05. He had never been a big K guy, but struck out 115 times his first season in Charlotte. Since then, his K/AB has been crazy. The kid has lost his confidence and obviously doesn't have an approach that's going to help him. He needs to escape scrutiny and spend a few months carrying his own bags and living on White Castle.


BAAA up to 109 k's in 416 career ab's.

CLR01
04-25-2007, 10:33 PM
It wasn't like the kid was tearing up AAA pitching, either. It's not like Crede, who was an All-World AAA player. With Crede, you had a feeling that he'd come around. Not so sure with Anderson.


.295avg, .360OBP, .469slg, .829OPS, 24 2b, 3 3b, 16 hr's, 44 BB 57 RBIs, lots of K's.

Yeah, Triple-A pretty much kicked his ass. :rolleyes:


Crede's and Anderson's Triple-A numbers are not all that different.

sox1970
04-25-2007, 10:34 PM
BAAA up to 109 k's in 416 career ab's.

Since we're piling on here, let me add that he makes Joe Borchard look good. :D:

102605
04-25-2007, 10:35 PM
Since we're piling on here, let me add that he makes Joe Borchard look good. :D:

Actually..... Borchard would be an improvement to Mr. Anderson at this point.

getonbckthr
04-25-2007, 10:37 PM
Anderson needs to be sent down to Charlotte. Honestly, can Ryan Sweeney or Jerry Owens do any worse up here than BA?
I don't know will they get at bats besides when half the starters are hurt?

Jurr
04-25-2007, 10:37 PM
.295avg, .360OBP, .469slg, .829OPS, 24 2b, 3 3b, 16 hr's, 44 BB 57 RBIs, lots of K's.

Yeah, Triple-A pretty much kicked his ass. :rolleyes:


Crede's and Anderson's Triple-A numbers are not all that different.
Their early numbers in the bigs are quite different.
Over the same number of games in the bigs, you see one guy that flashed great potential and another that looked lost.

JB98
04-25-2007, 10:38 PM
.295avg, .360OBP, .469slg, .829OPS, 24 2b, 3 3b, 16 hr's, 44 BB 57 RBIs, lots of K's.

Yeah, Triple-A pretty much kicked his ass. :rolleyes:


Crede's and Anderson's Triple-A numbers are not all that different.

I have no idea what Crede's numbers have to do with Anderson. I've never understood that argument. EVER. Yes, Crede struggled, and now he is good. Chris Snopek struggled too. He never became good. Neither is an indicator of what will become of Brian Anderson.

thomas35forever
04-25-2007, 10:39 PM
Actually, the Sox sent Crede back down after he hit .220 in 2001, which is what they should do with Anderson. When Crede came up for his first full season, he hit .261 with 19 homeruns in 2003. If Anderson had done that last year, we could cut him some slack.

As for Konerko, he was already a proven major leaguer. The Sox knew he would come around eventually. There is no proven track record that Anderson will.
I would call this a valid point. The only thing is when this happened to Crede, the Sox weren't hitting their stride. There were a lot of players the roster people weren't sure about. This is a whole different team. We have a lot more proven players, so even if we did send BA down, it would still be tough for him to get at-bats on our team when/if he comes back up.

Jurr
04-25-2007, 10:39 PM
The whole Anderson debate is moot at this point. He has been analyzed and criticized by the Chicago media and the manager for over a year now. His confidence is in the absolute gutter, with no end in sight.

Any argument against getting this kid back in a good frame of mind in AAA is silly.

pearso66
04-25-2007, 10:40 PM
It comes with timing, timing comes with at bats, Ozzie has only given Brian at bats this season because of injury. Last season Brian struggles in the first half but performed much better in the 2nd half and oh by the way it was his rookie season. Sorry not all rookies can be of the Pujols and Howard variety. As far as the 9th inning at bat, we have a kid who has had minimal at bats this season and we are expecting him to fly out of the gates and mash. Also bases loaded tying run at the plate 2 outs 2 of our best hitters, a little banged up, are sitting on the bench and we have a 2nd year player with minimal at bats hmmmmm who should get the at bat here? Either Thome or Dye should have gotten the at bat.

I'm glad I'm not the only one backing him up at least a little.

CLR01
04-25-2007, 10:41 PM
I have no idea what Crede's numbers have to do with Anderson. I've never understood that argument. EVER. Yes, Crede struggled, and now he is good. Chris Snopek struggled too. He never became good. Neither is an indicator of what will become of Brian Anderson.

Talk to Jurr, he brought him up.

Jurr
04-25-2007, 10:41 PM
By the way, what's the over/under on the number of runs Jose gives up in the first inning tomorrow night? It's gotta be the prop bet of the night in Vegas, right?

slobes
04-25-2007, 10:42 PM
The whole Anderson debate is moot at this point. He has been analyzed and criticized by the Chicago media and the manager for over a year now. His confidence is in the absolute gutter, with no end in sight.

Any argument against getting this kid back in a good frame of mind in AAA is silly.

Especially with a bunch of our starters hurting at the moment, he's here to stay, at least for now.

102605
04-25-2007, 10:42 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only one backing him up at least a little.

So I guess theres just 2 of you then :smile:

ND_Sox_Fan
04-25-2007, 10:43 PM
:jerry

"With five guys hurt (or on bereavement) coming into the game and a sixth hurt during the game, I had a great opportunity to field a AAA lineup, and I took the chance.

I really enjoyed having Logan out there for three innings because my other guys in the pen needed time off.

I wanted to call up Cotts to start, but then I realized that we traded him for a pitcher that I over-used last weekend - who still needs time off.

Roger asked me if we really wanted to get the game in tonight, and I told him that I wanted to put this lineup on the field, instead of playing two tomorrow."

CLR01
04-25-2007, 10:44 PM
Crede at least showed us in AAA that he had potential. BA has never shown us anything at any level of baseball. He was average in AAA. Crede was an all-star in AAA.

:rolling:

The numbers and KW, who traded away every CF ahead of him, disagree with you. But go ahead and believe whatever it is you believe.

Jurr
04-25-2007, 10:44 PM
Talk to Jurr, he brought him up.
Yeah, that was me.
I'm going to gracefully bow out of the Anderson debate. I'm pulling for the kid. It's sad to see when gifted athletes get in that funk that illustrates how hard the game really is.

CLR01
04-25-2007, 10:44 PM
By the way, what's the over/under on the number of runs Jose gives up in the first inning tomorrow night? It's gotta be the prop bet of the night in Vegas, right?

2. it'll be a light night. :cool:

fuzzy_patters
04-25-2007, 10:46 PM
.295avg, .360OBP, .469slg, .829OPS, 24 2b, 3 3b, 16 hr's, 44 BB 57 RBIs, lots of K's.

Yeah, Triple-A pretty much kicked his ass. :rolleyes:


Crede's and Anderson's Triple-A numbers are not all that different.

Crede's AAA numbers:

2001 .276 avg, .349 obp, .464 slg, 17 hr, 65 rbi, 46bb, 88k, 124 g
2002 .312 avg, .359 obp, .571 slg, 24 hr, 65 rbi, 26 bb, 48k, 95 g

Anderson's numbers are similar to Crede's first year numbers, but Crede wasn't ready yet in 2001 and spent another year in AAA. Anderson's OBP was .011 higher and his SLG was .005 higher. However, Crede wasn't ready yet and spent another year in the minors. In his second year, his SLG was .102 higher, his AVG was .017 higher, and his OBP was .001 lower than Anderson's. Comparing Crede's AAA numbers to Anderson's numbers actually makes the argument that Anderson should be sent down like Crede was in 2002.

GoSox2K3
04-25-2007, 10:47 PM
I'm not happy with BA's performance, but I'm not going to pin this loss on a guy who is up with a 4 run deficit with 2 outs in the 9th. It's not like the rest of our lineup was riping apart "Cy" Durbin.

Are the Sox the only good offensive team that always has trouble with mediocre rookies? This has been going on for years and it's getting old.

Oh well, with the number of minor injuries to our regulars, this indeed may have been a good night for the rainout many of us were expecting earlier today.

Jurr
04-25-2007, 10:47 PM
Uh oh. We're getting totally Bill James in here, now.

CLR01
04-25-2007, 10:47 PM
The whole Anderson debate is moot at this point. He has been analyzed and criticized by the Chicago media and the manager for over a year now. His confidence is in the absolute gutter, with no end in sight.

Any argument against getting this kid back in a good frame of mind in AAA is silly.

If he is not going to get consistent AB's up here I agree.

PAPChiSox729
04-25-2007, 10:48 PM
So I guess theres just 2 of you then :smile:

Nah, toss my hat in, too...

It's a tough spot for Brian. I've always felt that he needs to start. If it won't happen here, he needs to be in AAA. I still have hope for him; I still think he can develop into a good player given the right conditions. But, of course, being on a pennant-contending team with a tough media and fanbase are far from ideal for getting the kid's confidence back up.

He does look very lost, and every time he comes to the plate I expect a strikeout. But we need OF's up here, especially if the injuries start to drag on. I don't know if Sweeney or Owens would be an improvement over Anderson or not.

Bottom line is if we want to see this kid produce, we are going to have to get behind him while he stays up here, whether we are happy about it or not.

fuzzy_patters
04-25-2007, 10:49 PM
I have no idea what Crede's numbers have to do with Anderson. I've never understood that argument. EVER. Yes, Crede struggled, and now he is good. Chris Snopek struggled too. He never became good. Neither is an indicator of what will become of Brian Anderson.

That's actually a good point. Jeff Abbott was a better minor league hitter than Magglio Ordonez, but I think Ordonez turned out to be the better big leaguer. I guess that shows us that AAA numbers are fun to throw around on a message board, but they don't really mean very much.

pearso66
04-25-2007, 10:49 PM
Are the Sox the only good offensive team that always has trouble with mediocre rookies? This has been going on for years and it's getting old.


I would say the same thing, Durbin unfortunately isn't a rookie, he's been around a while, but he is less than mediocre though. It seems with our poor performance against guys we havn't seen has to do with our scouting dept. Are they that bad that the Sox never hit a guy they havn't seen yet?

pearso66
04-25-2007, 10:52 PM
Nah, toss my hat in, too...

It's a tough spot for Brian. I've always felt that he needs to start. If it won't happen here, he needs to be in AAA. I still have hope for him; I still think he can develop into a good player given the right conditions. But, of course, being on a pennant-contending team with a tough media and fanbase are far from ideal for getting the kid's confidence back up.

He does look very lost, and every time he comes to the plate I expect a strikeout. But we need OF's up here, especially if the injuries start to drag on. I don't know if Sweeney or Owens would be an improvement over Anderson or not.

Bottom line is if we want to see this kid produce, we are going to have to get behind him while he stays up here, whether we are happy about it or not.

He does need to be sent down if he doesn't play. And bringing up Sweeney or Owens doesn't make any sense either. If they sit, they are in the same boat Anderson is in. They should bring up Terrerro, if he's still with the team.

102605
04-25-2007, 10:53 PM
Where did Andy Gonzalez come from and who was sent down or put on the DL?

Jurr
04-25-2007, 10:53 PM
I would say the same thing, Durbin unfortunately isn't a rookie, he's been around a while, but he is less than mediocre though. It seems with our poor performance against guys we havn't seen has to do with our scouting dept. Are they that bad that the Sox never hit a guy they havn't seen yet?
It is alarming, but I think the Durbin thing may have had a lot to do with the fact that he was, as sad as it is to say, due.

Durbin's been around. He obviously has good enough stuff to be on the Tigers staff. He has had terrible numbers so far, and he was due to have a game worthy of his roster spot.

Guys that stick around on a big league roster can have bad games, but at some point, they have performances that bring their stats back towards the average. This looks like one of those nights, just like the other night, when the Sox pushed Verlander's ERA up a tad the other night.

EDIT, knowing the BA argument is coming: If the guy consistently produces below average, though, there's a problem.

CLR01
04-25-2007, 10:55 PM
Crede's AAA numbers:

2001 .276 avg, .349 obp, .464 slg, 17 hr, 65 rbi, 46bb, 88k, 124 g
2002 .312 avg, .359 obp, .571 slg, 24 hr, 65 rbi, 26 bb, 48k, 95 g

Anderson's numbers are similar to Crede's first year numbers, but Crede wasn't ready yet in 2001 and spent another year in AAA. Anderson's OBP was .011 higher and his SLG was .005 higher. However, Crede wasn't ready yet and spent another year in the minors. In his second year, his SLG was .102 higher, his AVG was .017 higher, and his OBP was .001 lower than Anderson's. Comparing Crede's AAA numbers to Anderson's numbers actually makes the argument that Anderson should be sent down like Crede was in 2002.


I have the stats for each player at all levels, I even have them broken down to ab's/per for each category. I never said they were the same just that they weren't all that different and outside of k's and HR's the differences are not that huge.

pearso66
04-25-2007, 10:55 PM
Where did Andy Gonzalez come from and who was sent down or put on the DL?

Cintron was placed on some list, can't think of the name of it, beravement list?

HotelWhiteSox
04-25-2007, 10:56 PM
He still didn't play regularly last year, he platooned. It's tough when you're a rookie, you don't get regular atbats, your strength is not offense, but that's what you're being judged by. Not to mention your manager really helps you being a headcase when he see quotes like "'you better enjoy that meal, it could be your last' guillen jokingly said to anderson" This was in like May. People will say all this stuff is a cop out, I don't care, go jack off to your stats while I watch the games.

You must really hate on Anderson and root for him to lose when you use this game, where the entire offense was embarrasing, and the 9 hitter's, what, 3rd start (along with some pinch hitting/running) is the focus on this loss. I'm just wondering if any of these people were related to the morons who used to boo Crede

CLR01
04-25-2007, 10:56 PM
Where did Andy Gonzalez come from and who was sent down or put on the DL?

Cintron was put on the bereavement list.

PeteWard
04-25-2007, 10:56 PM
Anderson's not going anywhere with these injuries. Wish I could've seen the game, sucks for him he made the last out. Things are looking worse and worse for this guy.

He refused to play winter ball...that's why his hitting still sucks and that's why he is in KW's and Ozzie's doghouse.

102605
04-25-2007, 10:56 PM
Cintron was put on the bereavement list.

I see. Hope everything is ok with his family.

pearso66
04-25-2007, 10:58 PM
He refused to play winter ball...that's why his hitting still sucks and that's why he is in KW's and Ozzie's doghouse.

Didn't he play winter ball and get sent home when he got a virus?

CLR01
04-25-2007, 10:59 PM
He refused to play winter ball...that's why his hitting still sucks and that's why he is in KW's and Ozzie's doghouse.

He was there until he got sick but ok.

Soxfanspcu11
04-25-2007, 10:59 PM
****ING PATHETIC....

Pods out until June, Thome with what will surely be a nagging rib injury, Mack leaves the game, Anderson has absolutely no clue at the plate and needs to be sent down ASAP... Dye with a nagging back injury... AJ, Crede, Erstad can't get their average above .230...

Anyone still worried with some things here?


Where is the teal police??

I'm not sure if you were joking or not, but if you were serious, I don't even know what to say!!!

I am at a loss for words!!!:o:

JB98
04-25-2007, 10:59 PM
That's actually a good point. Jeff Abbott was a better minor league hitter than Magglio Ordonez, but I think Ordonez turned out to be the better big leaguer. I guess that shows us that AAA numbers are fun to throw around on a message board, but they don't really mean very much.

No question. There are a lot of guys who've had success at AAA and bombed in the bigs. It's a roll of the dice. I hear all the time that we must be patient with Anderson because Crede and Garland struggled for awhile before they became good. Well, yeah, but guys like Borchard and Chris Snopek struggled for awhile and sucked forever.

To me, arguing that Anderson should play everyday because of Crede is the equivalent of arguing that Anderson should be released because of Borchard. Neither argument holds water.

lumpyspun
04-25-2007, 11:01 PM
I have evidence Anderson can hit.....only problem is that it is on a mystery field....with nobody watching...in a meaningless game:

9j_OBaFTyWU

fuzzy_patters
04-25-2007, 11:01 PM
I have the stats for each player at all levels, I even have them broken down to ab's/per for each category. I never said they were the same just that they weren't all that different and outside of k's and HR's the differences are not that huge.

Fair enough.

PAPChiSox729
04-25-2007, 11:01 PM
He was there until he got sick but ok.

Didn't he play winter ball and get sent home when he got a virus?


It looks like it depends on whom you ask.

smaver
04-25-2007, 11:01 PM
I will admit, throughout last year I was one of the people defending Anderson and went along with the "he just needs more time....he'll come around..." remarks, but when does it get to the point when you just have to say that maybe he just can't hack it at the big league level? You can argue that the lack of playing time this season has hurt him when he does get the chance to play, but isn't that the reason he's a professional player, because he can step in at any time and be able to perform? I dont know maybe I'm just venting after tonight's lose to Detroit, due to Anderson's inability to come through in the clutch.... sorry there I go again. Anyway what is everyone's elses opinions here???

- Steve

CLR01
04-25-2007, 11:02 PM
It looks like it depends on whom you ask.

Somebody other than PeteWard says otherwise? Did I miss a report?

PAPChiSox729
04-25-2007, 11:02 PM
I will admit, throughout last year I was one of the people defending Anderson and went along with the "he just needs more time....he'll come around..." remarks, but when does it get to the point when you just have to say that maybe he just can't hack it at the big league level? You can argue that the lack of playing time this season has hurt him when he does get the chance to play, but isn't that the reason he's a professional player, because he can step in at any time and be able to perform? I dont know maybe I'm just venting after tonight's lose to Detroit, due to Anderson's inability to come through in the clutch.... sorry there I go again. Anyway what is everyone's elses opinions here???

- Steve

Read the post-game thread.

102605
04-25-2007, 11:03 PM
I now know him as:

BAAA

pearso66
04-25-2007, 11:03 PM
I will admit, throughout last year I was one of the people defending Anderson and went along with the "he just needs more time....he'll come around..." remarks, but when does it get to the point when you just have to say that maybe he just can't hack it at the big league level? You can argue that the lack of playing time this season has hurt him when he does get the chance to play, but isn't that the reason he's a professional player, because he can step in at any time and be able to perform? I dont know maybe I'm just venting after tonight's lose to Detroit, due to Anderson's inability to come through in the clutch.... sorry there I go again. Anyway what is everyone's elses opinions here???

- Steve

He needs to go to AAA if he isn't going to play at least 1/2 the time. But no one on the Sox came through at all tonight, it wasn't just Anderson.

lumpyspun
04-25-2007, 11:04 PM
Well, yeah, but guys like Borchard and Chris Snopek struggled for awhile and sucked forever.



Ha, we could actually use Borchard right about now.
He has 3 homers and 10 RBI's, with no errors in left and right.

TheOldRoman
04-25-2007, 11:04 PM
Where are all the BA supporters now? There is a reason Erstad deserves to start.
Before yesterday, Anderson had 9 at bats this season. 9
I thought I read in the paper today that Jimmy could pinch-hit if we needed him. Well, we needed him, but he wasn't used. I sure hope this injury isn't serious.
That is what Ronge said on the postgame show. I agree with the decision not to pinch hit them. Coming in cold like that, either one would have at best a 1/5 chance of getting a hit. Unless he hit a homer, you would need Erstad to get a hit next (and his average is around .200). With the conditions being what they were, there is no use risking it for such a minute chance.
Ronge said Thome's rib thing is a 3-4 day injury, but if he tweaks it a little worse, it is a 3-4 week injury. There is no use risking it for any one game, let alone this game.
I'll third that.

I hope all of the BA supporters apologize to Ozzie. Ozzie has been right all along to put BA's ass on the pine.
9. 9 at bats before yesterday. But he should have been able to find his stroke these past two games.
Anderson needs to be sent down to Charlotte. Honestly, can Ryan Sweeney or Jerry Owens do any worse up here than BA?
Possibly, if they get 9 at bats over a three week span.
By the way, what's the over/under on the number of runs Jose gives up in the first inning tomorrow night? It's gotta be the prop bet of the night in Vegas, right?
3 runs. Take the over.

fuzzy_patters
04-25-2007, 11:08 PM
According to the Sun-Times (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/342782,CST-SPT-soxnt16.article), it looks like Anderson is refusing to play winter ball, but it is next year's winter ball and not last year's. Perhaps that is where the confusion is coming from.

CHISOXFAN13
04-25-2007, 11:09 PM
Could we let the game end before we make a post game thread

No because being the first to post it has become a contest on here. It's pretty comical.

SBSoxFan
04-25-2007, 11:11 PM
It dawned on me that BA has a brand new batting stance, and should probably be honing it in AAA. He looked incredibly dejected after his strikeout in the 4th (?) inning.

Durbin was getting some luck out there too. There were about 5 balls hit on the screws right at someone. I didn't see the first inning, but, conversely, Detroit had several ground ball hits.

CLR01
04-25-2007, 11:12 PM
According to the Sun-Times (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/342782,CST-SPT-soxnt16.article), it looks like Anderson is refusing to play winter ball, but it is next year's winter ball and not last year's. Perhaps that is where the confusion is coming from.


If he needs to go I'm sure (hope) KW will make him go again. That doesn't necessarily have to be Venezuela again though.

logansquaresox
04-25-2007, 11:14 PM
Somebody other than PeteWard says otherwise? Did I miss a report?

No, I don't think you did. An article describing the Tiburones debacle is is behind the Tribune's archive walls, but here's a link (http://southsidesox.com/story/2006/11/3/21710/5392) to a summary of it. The article describes Brian losing 20 lbs in 2 weeks in Venezuela. If I remember correctly, the whole team came home after Razor Shines was fired and another player was also sick.

BA admitted to not wanting to go to Venezuela this past winter; perhaps that is what posters are remembering.

oeo
04-25-2007, 11:16 PM
No because being the first to post it has become a contest on here. It's pretty comical.

Contest? The same person wins everyday.

CLR01
04-25-2007, 11:16 PM
:thumbsup: to Cowley for bringing up winter ball in April. He and the Moron probably collaborated on that story.

BanditJimmy
04-25-2007, 11:30 PM
I love it. Just got home from the game and the BA bashing is in full force.

When your offense can only manage 3 hits off Cy Durbin, the ninth hitter is the last person I start pointing fingers to.


Yes BA is pretty bad right now as he was last year, but other guys on this team are not hitting their weight either.


BA being sent to AAA resolves nothing right now with this ML club. If there were better options down in the Farm to come up here and produce, I trust that Kenny and Ozzie would have made a move by now. But no one (Sweeney or Owens) has done anything to merit a promotion.

chisoxfanatic
04-25-2007, 11:34 PM
At least they made things interesting in the bottom of the nineth; however, BA's production is completely unacceptable. He really could've extended the inning if he wasn't swing-happy after getting ahead in the count.

A couple of classics in the nineth inning from fans behind me to a group of Tigers fans sitting in Section 147:

"Let's Go, Cardinals!"
"At least we didn't choke in the World Series!" (was that YOU, Mike?)

TheOldRoman
04-25-2007, 11:39 PM
Glad to see we didn't just roll over and die, but a loss is a loss. Hopefully we bring a bit more offense tomorrow.
No, because this is the same **** we did last year. We would have self induced horrible outings against terrible pitching. When said horrible starter was pulled from the game, after the Sox were down by several runs, they put on a meaningless offensive show in the 9th and made the game look respectable, along with their offensive numbers.
The Sox put up huge numbers in garbage time last year, and that is part of the reason their numbers looked so good. I am certainly not knocking what they did against great closers last year, but they should have done much, much more against the starters in most of those games. If you are facing a guy with an ERA of 8 in July, and you consider yourself a good offense, you better get at least 4 runs off of him. It takes until they are down by 4+ in the 9th for the Sox to realize they can shorten up their swings, and allow pitchers to throw balls. That's not a good strategy, but it falls on the shoulders on their hitting coach. It honestly seemed like the inning after Sox pitching gave up that run that "put it out of reach" (whether it be the 5th or the 8th), the offense said "this game is already lost, so I might as well go up and have a good at bat instead of trying to hit it onto the Ryan."

Today was a terrible game, from the weather, to the lineup, to the pitching. But the offense was atrocious. We haven't received a good, thorough humiliation like that in a long time, probably since the offense laid down their bats in Boston last September. Tonight's performance was "getting dominated by John Rheinecker bad". It was "John Wasdin" bad. It was "John Koronka, Runelvys Hernandez, Adam Bernero" bad. But it could have been worse, at least we didn't put up goose eggs against the crappy Julian Taveras starting on short notice. Oh wait...
I mean, they couldn't have been any worse on offense. They faced a terrible pitcher, and did nothing. Not only did they do jack **** against him, they allowed him to go 8 innings. You have to stop and take note of such futility. Walkerball cost us the game, no matter how unimpressive Danks and Logan were. And another thing, this whole "let get bombed in the first" thing is getting old. This is the 4th time it happened in the last 5 games. It is good to see the starters settle down a little after that, but they gave up a lot of runs they shouldn't have, shortened their outing, and put unnecessary stress on the bullpen. The starter need to get it back on track, starting with Jose tomorrow.

chisoxfanatic
04-25-2007, 11:41 PM
An awful note...Does anyone else have this sickening feeling that we're gonna have season-long problems facing Cy No-Name this year?

BanditJimmy
04-25-2007, 11:51 PM
An awful note...Does anyone else have this sickening feeling that we're gonna have season-long problems facing Cy No-Name this year?

I agree on that. The Johan and CC games are easy to swallow but please show a better effort versus crap soft tossing pitchers.

chisoxfanatic
04-25-2007, 11:53 PM
I agree on that. The Johan and CC games are easy to swallow but please show a better effort versus crap soft tossing pitchers.

And, if you're going to actually play BA...PUT HIM IN THE FIELD!!! There's no point in playing him if he can't do the ONE thing he can do decently!

DH??? MY BEHIND!!!

BanditJimmy
04-25-2007, 11:58 PM
And, if you're going to actually play BA...PUT HIM IN THE FIELD!!! There's no point in playing him if he can't do the ONE thing he can do decently!

DH??? MY BEHIND!!!


Bingo!


I looked at my friend tonight and said to him that with the OF depth the way it is, none of our OFs should be lost to the DH slot. And then RobMa got hurt to make things even worse.

HotelWhiteSox
04-26-2007, 12:05 AM
I agree with BA to AAA, but so he can get some more playing time, you are basically ruining his career with the way he's being used now. I find it hilarious how the number of at bats he has this year is a good enough sample size. I guess we can dismiss Konerko and Dye, since they are struggling to remain at .200 with 7-8 times the at bats.

Maybe it's all fanbases who just want results like that, but damn, I'm young, and it boggles my mind how anyone who has followed a team for more than a year can react to the results expected with some of our prospects. This goes for moaning and booing of both successful prospects and busts. From CLee, Garland, Crede, Rowand, Willie Harris, etc. WSI will give great representation of this, just a few gems:

http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=19453
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=321859&postcount=5
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=37287
Carlos Lee after HRs http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=11943
1 week earlier
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=11511
1 year later
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=18684
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=18679
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=3477
http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=32709

Just a quick search. The Rowand part was pretty funny. It went from a bunch of threads saying that Singleton sucks, Rowand is our savior, then a little later, Rowand sucks, and anyone who thought otherwise was a FOC (fan of crash) apologist who used the 'more playing time' excuse, and on and on the cycle goes on...

Back to Anderson. Again, his strength isn't offense, he doesn't get regular ABs, and he's on a team whose least thing to worry about is offense. This is all without the other intangibles like headgames and being thrown under the bus multiple times. Let's all lynch him after this game though. How dare the #9 hitter who never plays have a similar to statline to everyone else on the lineup?

And yes I think he can have an impact with some time. I was at a game last year when an amazing defensive play of his completely recharged a dead stadium/offense (you can't measure it, but players admitted it helped after the game). Late in 05, I also remember when we were needing wins, and BA was the only guy who could hit Felix Hernandez in the lineup, after multiple home runs (shortly after being called up). Maybe AAA is the answer with this team, but he needs to play.

HotelWhiteSox
04-26-2007, 12:23 AM
By the way, to the kids that love stats. The two months that BA got the most at bats last year, July and August: Avgs of .313 and .296. He had a rough start, but so have a lot better

QCIASOXFAN
04-26-2007, 12:39 AM
I was at work tonight and was told we got rained out.:dunno: From what I am reading I guess I'm glad I didn't see the game.:dunno: I didn't see it, but I do think people should settle down a bit, or am I missing something?:dunno:

whitesoxfan
04-26-2007, 12:48 AM
By the way, to the kids that love stats. The two months that BA got the most at bats last year, July and August: Avgs of .313 and .296. He had a rough start, but so have a lot better

Guy just needs more AB's. I said it about a weak ago, but a demotion to Charlotte wouldn't be a bad thing for him because he'll get to play everyday.

Don't really understand all the BA hate because all other 8 hitters didn't do jack **** against Cy Durbin either. The whole team sucked ass tonight. Guess you can file this one under the "50 you'll lose" each year.

kittle42
04-26-2007, 01:10 AM
No, because this is the same **** we did last year. We would have self induced horrible outings against terrible pitching. When said horrible starter was pulled from the game, after the Sox were down by several runs, they put on a meaningless offensive show in the 9th and made the game look respectable, along with their offensive numbers.
The Sox put up huge numbers in garbage time last year, and that is part of the reason their numbers looked so good. I am certainly not knocking what they did against great closers last year, but they should have done much, much more against the starters in most of those games. If you are facing a guy with an ERA of 8 in July, and you consider yourself a good offense, you better get at least 4 runs off of him. It takes until they are down by 4+ in the 9th for the Sox to realize they can shorten up their swings, and allow pitchers to throw balls. That's not a good strategy, but it falls on the shoulders on their hitting coach. It honestly seemed like the inning after Sox pitching gave up that run that "put it out of reach" (whether it be the 5th or the 8th), the offense said "this game is already lost, so I might as well go up and have a good at bat instead of trying to hit it onto the Ryan."

Today was a terrible game, from the weather, to the lineup, to the pitching. But the offense was atrocious. We haven't received a good, thorough humiliation like that in a long time, probably since the offense laid down their bats in Boston last September. Tonight's performance was "getting dominated by John Rheinecker bad". It was "John Wasdin" bad. It was "John Koronka, Runelvys Hernandez, Adam Bernero" bad. But it could have been worse, at least we didn't put up goose eggs against the crappy Julian Taveras starting on short notice. Oh wait...
I mean, they couldn't have been any worse on offense. They faced a terrible pitcher, and did nothing. Not only did they do jack **** against him, they allowed him to go 8 innings. You have to stop and take note of such futility. Walkerball cost us the game, no matter how unimpressive Danks and Logan were. And another thing, this whole "let get bombed in the first" thing is getting old. This is the 4th time it happened in the last 5 games. It is good to see the starters settle down a little after that, but they gave up a lot of runs they shouldn't have, shortened their outing, and put unnecessary stress on the bullpen. The starter need to get it back on track, starting with Jose tomorrow.

100% correct. This should have been the start of this thread.

RockJock07
04-26-2007, 01:13 AM
From what everyone is saying it seems like a loss was in the cards tonight. Watered down line-up, the team not getting in till 3, logan pitching 3, it just seems that Ozzie was content in letting whatever happen, happen and not try to win this one.

I'm not ok with that, but i understand that it happens. Herm will fix up Thome and Dye, but the bigger problem was 4 hits off of Durbin, that's a joke. The sox had been hitting ok until tonight when they couldn't do anything.

where is the stuff about Pods out until june? link?

ShoelessJoeS
04-26-2007, 01:20 AM
*****!

Great parody of a dark cloud...

You were being funny weren't you? :rolleyes:Sadly Jim, I doubt it.

IlliniSox4Life
04-26-2007, 03:04 AM
Gray skies are gonna clear up,
Put on a happy face;
Brush off the clouds and cheer up,
Put on a happy face.
Take off the gloomy mask of tragedy,
It's not your style;
You'll look so good that you'll be glad
Ya' decide to smile!
Pick out a pleasant outlook,
Stick out that noble chin;
Wipe off that "full of doubt" look,
Slap on a happy grin!
And spread sunshine all over the place,
Just put on a happy face!

Grzegorz
04-26-2007, 04:44 AM
Where are all the BA supporters now? There is a reason Erstad deserves to start.

Hmm, critical of a kid with limited at bats when the veterans are struggling.

I continue to support Anderson. He is being mishandled by this organization. He should be getting at bats. He should be given a chance to prove himself after spring training.

Now, without a daily shot on the major league roster he should be getting consistent at bats in the minors. This is a lose-lose situation.

Maybe the kid is a huge jerk, but I am surprised at KW and his handling of this situation.

PeteWard
04-26-2007, 06:45 AM
Didn't he play winter ball and get sent home when he got a virus?

Sorry I was not 100% accurate. I beleive he came home on his own after having stomach problems and did not contact the club until he had returned to the States. Then I belive he said he did not wasnt to go back. This ticked KW, and I think, Ozzie off.

Jurr
04-26-2007, 07:02 AM
His quote in the Sun times regarding winter ball:
''I've had my fill down there.''
Was it taken out of context? Probably.

Anyway, it doesn't matter. Hopefully the kid can turn things around and contribute to the Sox if he's on the roster. His approach is awful, and he said as much in the papers today. Here's to hoping he figures it out.:gulp:

soxfanatlanta
04-26-2007, 07:02 AM
Guy just needs more AB's. I said it about a weak ago, but a demotion to Charlotte wouldn't be a bad thing for him because he'll get to play everyday.

+1

He'll get to play every day, and he will be away from Guillen. I'm not slamming Ozzie; some time away from him might do some good.

ArkanSox
04-26-2007, 07:25 AM
After watching American Idol, I was hoping that our own American League Idle would "give back" (especially for the nearly naked, gyrating tribe in the stands). It could have brought tears to beer-glass eyes. Alas, it was not to be, but in the sprit of the night, no one should get kicked off.

Let's get 'em today.
GO SOX!!!

soxfanatlanta
04-26-2007, 07:41 AM
After watching American Idol, I was hoping that our own American League Idle would "give back" (especially for the nearly naked, gyrating tribe in the stands). It could have brought tears to beer-glass eyes. Alas, it was not to be, but in the sprit of the night, no one should get kicked off.

Let's get 'em today.
GO SOX!!!
:?:
Horsemaster Fred?

stl_sox_fan
04-26-2007, 08:02 AM
After watching American Idol, I was hoping that our own American League Idle would "give back" (especially for the nearly naked, gyrating tribe in the stands). It could have brought tears to beer-glass eyes. Alas, it was not to be, but in the sprit of the night, no one should get kicked off.

Let's get 'em today.
GO SOX!!!

Hopefully those weren't Sox fans hamming for the camera every time they did a profile shot of the batter. That never ceases to amaze me. Honey, can you see me, can you see me, I'm on the TV now...wait they turned the camera..now I'm on again. Woohoo. Also, did anyone notice the chump in the Cubs jacket wearing a Tiger hat looking smug? What was that all about.
Sorry wanted to rip on something other than those guys that put the Uniform on last night.

RockJock07
04-26-2007, 08:22 AM
I had no confidence in BA in the 9th. How could you? KW and Ozzie made a mistake bringing him north and should have brought Luis to fill the "backup" role instead letting BA rot on the bench. BA needs to be playing EVERYDAY, playing him one game then expecting him to come through against Zumaya is asking to much because he should never have been put in that situation in the first place. Send him down so he can start and bring a backup to fill the backup role otherwise KW and Ozzie are staying that BA is only going to be a backup.

Personally, I'm torn on Anderson because you have to love and respect his glove, i just don't think he'll hit, I have no basis for that, just a feeling. I think Ryan Sweeney will be a better player when he get's his chance.

hi im skot
04-26-2007, 08:28 AM
Hopefully those weren't Sox fans hamming for the camera every time they did a profile shot of the batter. That never ceases to amaze me. Honey, can you see me, can you see me, I'm on the TV now...wait they turned the camera..now I'm on again. Woohoo. Also, did anyone notice the chump in the Cubs jacket wearing a Tiger hat looking smug? What was that all about.
Sorry wanted to rip on something other than those guys that put the Uniform on last night.


"Hey, lookit me! I'm on the talkin' picture box!"


Yeah, saw the idiot in the Cubs jacket/Tigers cap combo; I complained about him briefly in the game thread, then plotted his demise.

PaulDrake
04-26-2007, 08:31 AM
Blah blah blah ANDERSON SMANDERSON. ERSTAD SMERSTAD.

Anderson lovers, he sucks so far. He sucked last season. Anderson haters, adapt, we got injuries.

BA is going to play, best you can do is cheer him on.

I'm excited to see Contreres tomorrow, the way he was pitching last week has my interest peaked. He had two different release points, and was rocking hitters to sleep after a rough first inning. I agree on every point you mention.

jabrch
04-26-2007, 08:32 AM
****ING PATHETIC....

Pods out until June, Thome with what will surely be a nagging rib injury, Mack leaves the game, Anderson has absolutely no clue at the plate and needs to be sent down ASAP... Dye with a nagging back injury... AJ, Crede, Erstad can't get their average above .230...

Anyone still worried with some things here?

WAH WAH WAH WAH...

gobears1987
04-26-2007, 08:38 AM
Actually..... Borchard would be an improvement to Mr. Anderson at this point.
A sad, but true statement. I never thought we would be in a position where we needed LTP.

PaulDrake
04-26-2007, 08:39 AM
What's funny about that is perspective. Detroit fans are saying, "Durbin was awesome tonight, making that curve look very enticing to hitters. Breakout game for Chad!!!"

Sox fans assume that it was terrible hitting. Maybe the kid was just money tonight. It still pisses us off, but it was just one of those nights. I still wonder why the Sox often look so bad against the Chad Durbins of the pitching world? Chad Durbin, who's been in the league since 1999, and has a career ERA of 6.17. Tiger fans need to relax, I doubt this guy is ever truly going to "break out".

FedEx227
04-26-2007, 09:10 AM
A sad, but true statement. I never thought we would be in a position where we needed LTP.

Yes because Borchard's first 400 major league at-bats averaged out to .193 batting average. Awesome improvement over Anderson.

It's reasons like these that the Sox have one of the worst farm systems in all of baseball. Our fans can't stand to give anybody chances nor can our team. I know it comes with the territory of being a competitive team, but if we can never develop offensive players we are doomed in the future, you can't continue shoring up holes with veterans, eventually you're going to have to ride out some pretty average times with a young guy.

I'll be the first to say that Anderson sucked last night and he was awful his first year, but find me a 22-year old rookie not named Albert Pujols that was setting the world on fire in his first 300 at-bats. You're not going to find it. But time and time again we see teams and fanbases that have a little friggin patience and let their guys develop.

The fact is the guy has had success at AAA already, he's been there and done that. If that's the only option then just trade him and get some 30-year old utility infielder and call it a loss. But it's not surprising that this team has developed one offensive players in the last 10 years.

Lip Man 1
04-26-2007, 09:22 AM
Fed Ex:

Point of clarification. I think it goes deeper then what you suggest, remember Kenny Williams was quoted this off season as talking about the scouting and development people.

He reorganized the scouting system and issued what I'd consider a warning that the Sox must start doing a better job in this area.

I wouldn't put it past him if things remain the same in the next few seasons that he fires some folks and brings in new blood. If that's going to happen then he needs to make the top Twins people "an offer they can't refuse..."

Lip

pdimas
04-26-2007, 09:23 AM
Was it me or were there a lot of yahoos out last night at the game as well? There were two nerdy pimple faced kids to the left of me yelling things that absolutely made no sense and yelling just to yell (at one point it was some nonsense about coffee). Then there was a group of HS kids and one college kid from Wisconsin that kept trying to get a **** Detroit chant going. If that wasnt bad enough by the 8th they were hammered and two of the drunk ass guys decided to take their shirts off and wave them. Then there was another group of guys behind us two rows, also very drunk, also screaming nonsensical things. Now a smart heckler I can appreciate. Not yahoos yelling that the Pistons suck, Detroit sucks, **** Detroit etc. I don't think the rain delay helped.

SBSoxFan
04-26-2007, 09:38 AM
And another thing, this whole "let get bombed in the first" thing is getting old. This is the 4th time it happened in the last 5 games. It is good to see the starters settle down a little after that, but they gave up a lot of runs they shouldn't have, shortened their outing, and put unnecessary stress on the bullpen. The starter need to get it back on track, starting with Jose tomorrow.

Not that I'm advocating giving up a crooked number in the first inning every time, but I think you're understating what the starters have done. Settle down "a little"? Um, didn't Contreras retire somewhere around 16 in a row and Garland around 18 of 19 after their poor first innings? That's settling down more than a little! Vazquez started the 7th, Garland went 8, and Danks went 6. I'm not sure they shortened their outings. Would they have pitched longer had they given up runs in the second or third inning, or single runs in several innings? Danks line last night was 4 ER in 6 IP, 0 BB and 6 SO. Would you consider that a pretty good line from your #5 starter?

I think the Sox should have scored about 10 runs tonight. But if you're gonna play like crap, it's still nice to have the tying run at the plate in the ninth.

iammonkeymandan
04-26-2007, 09:39 AM
Was it me or were there a lot of yahoos out last night at the game as well? There were two nerdy pimple faced kids to the left of me yelling things that absolutely made no sense and yelling just to yell (at one point it was some nonsense about coffee). Then there was a group of HS kids and one college kid from Wisconsin that kept trying to get a **** Detroit chant going. If that wasnt bad enough by the 8th they were hammered and two of the drunk ass guys decided to take their shirts off and wave them. Then there was another group of guys behind us two rows, also very drunk, also screaming nonsensical things. Now a smart heckler I can appreciate. Not yahoos yelling that the Pistons suck, Detroit sucks, **** Detroit etc. I don't think the rain delay helped.

I completely agree. I was sitting behind a guy and his 3 kids, all around 8-10 years old. A foul ball came by us and one of the kids just missed getting it. At this point, all 3 kids start screaming ****, ****, ****, **** over and over. They then look at their dad and yell "Hey dad, we're using foul language!" He then turns and says "****!" I now understand why my wife, a middle school teacher, wants to quit everyday.

FedEx227
04-26-2007, 09:46 AM
Fed Ex:

Point of clarification. I think it goes deeper then what you suggest, remember Kenny Williams was quoted this off season as talking about the scouting and development people.

He reorganized the scouting system and issued what I'd consider a warning that the Sox must start doing a better job in this area.

I wouldn't put it past him if things remain the same in the next few seasons that he fires some folks and brings in new blood. If that's going to happen then he needs to make the top Twins people "an offer they can't refuse..."

Lip

Oh no doubt, this isn't an Ozzie or Kenny problem. It's a problem top to bottom. We haven't developed ANYBODY. And the guys we've traded away haven't done anything either. Now that can't possibly be ALL of the players. If you look at the guys we've traded in recent years, none of them have done anything. Michael Morse, Jeremy Reed, Joe Borchard... something has to be said for the development team and the scouts that we've done nothing with any offensive player since Joe Crede, Robin Ventura and Frank Thomas.

Hitmen77
04-26-2007, 09:52 AM
Fed Ex:

Point of clarification. I think it goes deeper then what you suggest, remember Kenny Williams was quoted this off season as talking about the scouting and development people.

He reorganized the scouting system and issued what I'd consider a warning that the Sox must start doing a better job in this area.

I wouldn't put it past him if things remain the same in the next few seasons that he fires some folks and brings in new blood. If that's going to happen then he needs to make the top Twins people "an offer they can't refuse..."

Lip

This problem of getting shut down by crappy pitchers seems to remain as players come and go. Aside from Konerko, I think the rest of the lineup has been turned over since the Sox have had this annoying habit.

So, that makes me think it is a problem that goes beyond the specific players and something to do with coaching (Walker) and scouting.

I still think our pitching will determine our destiny this year - but in such a fiercely competitive division, we can't afford to continue to have no offense against bad pitching.

SBSoxFan
04-26-2007, 10:02 AM
This problem of getting shut down by crappy pitchers seems to remain as players come and go. Aside from Konerko, I think the rest of the lineup has been turned over since the Sox have had this annoying habit.

So, that makes me think it is a problem that goes beyond the specific players and something to do with coaching (Walker) and scouting.

I still think our pitching will determine our destiny this year - but in such a fiercely competitive division, we can't afford to continue to have no offense against bad pitching.

Wasn't this happening before Walker as well?

twentywontowin
04-26-2007, 10:19 AM
Was it me or were there a lot of yahoos out last night at the game as well? There were two nerdy pimple faced kids to the left of me yelling things that absolutely made no sense and yelling just to yell (at one point it was some nonsense about coffee). Then there was a group of HS kids and one college kid from Wisconsin that kept trying to get a **** Detroit chant going. If that wasnt bad enough by the 8th they were hammered and two of the drunk ass guys decided to take their shirts off and wave them. Then there was another group of guys behind us two rows, also very drunk, also screaming nonsensical things. Now a smart heckler I can appreciate. Not yahoos yelling that the Pistons suck, Detroit sucks, **** Detroit etc. I don't think the rain delay helped.

Crosstown doubleheader. Cubs played at home earlier in the day. All the drunks come out on those days.

FedEx227
04-26-2007, 10:29 AM
Wasn't this happening before Walker as well?

It's tough to say, I've noticed the trend since about 2002ish. Walker began in 03, so it's hard to say if it's him. But I see it being the scouting department as a whole. We seem to be clueless if we've never faced a guy before, we have no idea what pitches he throwns, what his habits are, etc. We're absolutely lost.

SBSoxFan
04-26-2007, 10:37 AM
It's tough to say, I've noticed the trend since about 2002ish. Walker began in 03, so it's hard to say if it's him. But I see it being the scouting department as a whole. We seem to be clueless if we've never faced a guy before, we have no idea what pitches he throwns, what his habits are, etc. We're absolutely lost.

And yet, I've heard the Sox are excellent at making reports and tape on new pitchers available. :dunno:

FedEx227
04-26-2007, 10:38 AM
And yet, I've heard the Sox are excellent at making reports and tape on new pitchers available. :dunno:

Yeah, I'm not sure where the problem lies. But the fact that last year we lost games to the likes of Luke Hudson, John Rheinecker, Adam Berero, Elmer Dessens, Kason Gabbard and Jake Woods. Ouch.

gobears1987
04-26-2007, 10:49 AM
Oh no doubt, this isn't an Ozzie or Kenny problem. It's a problem top to bottom. We haven't developed ANYBODY. And the guys we've traded away haven't done anything either. Now that can't possibly be ALL of the players. If you look at the guys we've traded in recent years, none of them have done anything. Michael Morse, Jeremy Reed, Joe Borchard... something has to be said for the development team and the scouts that we've done nothing with any offensive player since Joe Crede, Robin Ventura and Frank Thomas.Apparently Carlos Lee and Magglio Ordonez don't count as great offensive players who have come up through our organization.

Jerome
04-26-2007, 10:50 AM
If he is not going to get consistent AB's up here I agree.

Me too. Bringing him up to DH?! Playing him once every 2 weeks? He was only a rookie last year for goodness sake.

The only problem is, sending him down to AAA will do nothing to make Darin Erstad suck less. And because I don't want to see Rob Mackowiack anywhere near CF, that means I'm gonna have to get used to seeing Erstad in there everyday. :angry: :angry: :angry: :angry:

FedEx227
04-26-2007, 10:54 AM
Apparently Carlos Lee and Magglio Ordonez don't count as great offensive players who have come up through our organization.

I shouldn't have mentioned Thomas, Ventura because I wanted to say in the past 10 years, so that was my fault. We signed Magglio in 1991 and Lee in 94. So again, I probably shouldn't have put Ventura and Thomas in there, because at a time in the early to mid 90s we had some pretty decent scouting as you've brought up. But since 96-Present we've done very little.

Jaffar
04-26-2007, 11:24 AM
How great could we be if our scouts could scout talent the way KW seems to scout other teams players. That sentance sounds horrible....... I'm talking about the way KW seems to send off our "talent" for thiers and we seem to be winning more often than not.

CLR01
04-26-2007, 11:47 AM
[quote=HotelWhiteSox;1552897Just a quick search. The Rowand part was pretty funny. It went from a bunch of threads saying that Singleton sucks, Rowand is our savior, then a little later, Rowand sucks, and anyone who thought otherwise was a FOC (fan of crash) apologist who used the 'more playing time' excuse, and on and on the cycle goes on..[/quote]

I never wavered on Rowand. :cool:

JB98
04-26-2007, 12:04 PM
Yes because Borchard's first 400 major league at-bats averaged out to .193 batting average. Awesome improvement over Anderson.

It's reasons like these that the Sox have one of the worst farm systems in all of baseball. Our fans can't stand to give anybody chances nor can our team. I know it comes with the territory of being a competitive team, but if we can never develop offensive players we are doomed in the future, you can't continue shoring up holes with veterans, eventually you're going to have to ride out some pretty average times with a young guy.

I'll be the first to say that Anderson sucked last night and he was awful his first year, but find me a 22-year old rookie not named Albert Pujols that was setting the world on fire in his first 300 at-bats. You're not going to find it. But time and time again we see teams and fanbases that have a little friggin patience and let their guys develop.

The fact is the guy has had success at AAA already, he's been there and done that. If that's the only option then just trade him and get some 30-year old utility infielder and call it a loss. But it's not surprising that this team has developed one offensive players in the last 10 years.

Perhaps I would be a little more patient if Anderson actually was 22 years old. Check your media guide. He isn't that young.

FedEx227
04-26-2007, 12:15 PM
Perhaps I would be a little more patient if Anderson actually was 22 years old. Check your media guide. He isn't that young.

Yay taking everything completely literally. Sorry, my mistake. Try and find a 24 year old when 2006 began and currently a 25 year old who set the world on fire. Thanks for the clarification.

And I understand not being patient. After all, that'd be like the Twins sticking with Justin Morneau after a .239/.304/.437 year in 2005 when he was 24.

Or even the Indians staying with Travis Hafner after a .254/.327/.485 season in 2004 at age 27.

Hey, The A's somehow sucked it up and stuck with Miguel Tejada in 97-00 despite averages of .202, .233, .251 at age 22-24.

Michael Young at age 24 hit .249/.298/.402 followed at age 25 by a .262/.308/.382 season.

And since you enjoy taking everything literally. I'm in no way comparing Anderson to any of these players. They are clearly at a higher level then Anderson, but the fact is their teams stuck with them despite not producing great numbers at the 24-26 age range. Yet, now all of those guys rank in the top 15 in 2006 MVP voting.

kobo
04-26-2007, 12:38 PM
Perhaps I would be a little more patient if Anderson actually was 22 years old. Check your media guide. He isn't that young.
What about the fact he has only had 17 at bats this season? Does that make you more or less patient with him?

fuzzy_patters
04-26-2007, 01:02 PM
What about the fact he has only had 17 at bats this season? Does that make you more or less patient with him?

It makes me less patient with him. If he isn't getting at bats in Chicago, he should be playing in Charlotte unless the Sox don't think he's a prospect anymore. He's too young to be wasting away on the bench.

balke
04-26-2007, 02:01 PM
It makes me less patient with him. If he isn't getting at bats in Chicago, he should be playing in Charlotte unless the Sox don't think he's a prospect anymore. He's too young to be wasting away on the bench.

Seems pretty lame to say that now. He's going to be playing with these injured OF's we have.

fuzzy_patters
04-26-2007, 02:36 PM
Seems pretty lame to say that now. He's going to be playing with these injured OF's we have.

How long is Dye supposed to be out for? I thought it was just a one time thing.

edit: Nevermind, I see what you meant. I forgot about the Mackowiak injury. I was thinking that our outfield would be Mackowiak/Erstad/Dye until Podsednik come back.