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View Full Version : *Official* Why No Sweep?!?! 4/22/2007 Post Game Thread


MCHSoxFan
04-22-2007, 04:33 PM
Not happy. David came out, thought we had them. VERY MAAAADDD!!!! :angry: :angry: :angry: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:

ShoelessJoeS
04-22-2007, 04:34 PM
Well that wasn't very fun.

kevingrt
04-22-2007, 04:35 PM
That was not a fun game to watch.

WizardsofOzzie
04-22-2007, 04:35 PM
Boone, this is why we sent you down in the first ****ing place!!!

BeviBall!
04-22-2007, 04:35 PM
Flight to KC detail:

PK and AJ loading luggage and Garland gets the exit row.

itsnotrequired
04-22-2007, 04:35 PM
Not happy. David came out, thought we had them. VERY MAAAADDD!!!! :angry: :angry: :angry: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:

Be mad at Konerko and Dye going a combined 2-12 with 5 Ks, no RBIs and stranding a dozen.

soxfan123
04-22-2007, 04:35 PM
That sucked.

goon
04-22-2007, 04:35 PM
I'm so upset that Boone didn't make the team out of Spring Training. What were Kenny and Ozzie thinking?

whitesoxfan
04-22-2007, 04:35 PM
Two losses now on the season for us when we only had one more out to get.

****ing pathetic.

Kwrubac
04-22-2007, 04:35 PM
ugly ugly ugly...:whiner:

peeonwrigley
04-22-2007, 04:35 PM
I will take 2 out of 3 in DET any day, but losing like this really chaps my ass.

Soxworldchamps
04-22-2007, 04:35 PM
Up by two with two outs in the ninth inning. Pathetic.

Boondock Saint
04-22-2007, 04:36 PM
That was emotionally draining...not much more to add.

ilsox7
04-22-2007, 04:36 PM
Tough loss. But a series win is a good thing. Keep winning series.

CLR01
04-22-2007, 04:36 PM
At least you spelled official right this time. That a positive for today.

Dolemite79
04-22-2007, 04:36 PM
i dont get it why wasnt bobby on for the save? (i didnt get to watch the game) did ozzie give him a day off? If not then tinkering with your closer spot when trying to get the first series sweep of the season against a division foe is unacceptable and the blame should fall squarely on ozzies shoulders if that is the case

Thome25
04-22-2007, 04:36 PM
that was "how to turn a sure win into a dumb loss 101":angry: :angry: :angry:

Good teams like the White Sox should stick the dagger in and win games like that not choke them away.:angry: :angry: :angry:

Hopefully they won't be the up and down "Cardiac White Sox" all season long.

Soxworldchamps
04-22-2007, 04:37 PM
i dont get it why wasnt bobby on for the save? (i didnt get to watch the game) did ozzie give him a day off? If not then tinkering with your closer spot when trying to get the first series sweep of the season against a division foe is unacceptable and the blame should fall squarely on ozzies shoulders if that is the case

Ozzie didn't want him pitching four days in a row.

Hendu
04-22-2007, 04:37 PM
Plenty of lost opportunities in this one, starting with Paulie's double play in the 9th, a string of hittable pitches by Aardsma, wasted leadoff singles in extra innings, and then some control issues by Massett and Logan.

Oh well. Paulie definitely needs a day or 2 off. Great game by Garland.

MCHSoxFan
04-22-2007, 04:38 PM
At least you spelled official right this time. That a positive for today.

True, but I would rather have the Sox win over me being able to spell one word.

CLR01
04-22-2007, 04:38 PM
i dont get it why wasnt bobby on for the save? (i didnt get to watch the game) did ozzie give him a day off? If not then tinkering with your closer spot when trying to get the first series sweep of the season against a division foe is unacceptable and the blame should fall squarely on ozzies shoulders if that is the case


Bobby pitched the last three days. At some point he needs to be a allowed to rest and the other guys trusted to hold a 2 run lead with three outs to go.

Boondock Saint
04-22-2007, 04:38 PM
i dont get it why wasnt bobby on for the save? (i didnt get to watch the game) did ozzie give him a day off? If not then tinkering with your closer spot when trying to get the first series sweep of the season against a division foe is unacceptable and the blame should fall squarely on ozzies shoulders if that is the case

You put Bobby out there today, you risk burning out your closer. Aardsma was as hot as, if not hotter than any pitcher in baseball of late. Ozzy made the right call, the loss does NOT fall on him.

ilsox7
04-22-2007, 04:39 PM
Plenty of lost opportunities in this one, starting with Paulie's double play in the 9th, a string of hittable pitches by Aardsma, wasted leadoff singles in extra innings, and then some control issues by Massett and Logan.

Oh well. Paulie definitely needs a day or 2 off. Great game by Garland.

That pretty much sums it up. This thread should be closed as not much more can really be said about today. But I am sure people will go on and on about something stupid.

skobabe8
04-22-2007, 04:39 PM
I know he was only a small part of it, but boy do I hate Boone Logan.

WizardsofOzzie
04-22-2007, 04:40 PM
I know he was only a small part of it, but boy do I hate Boone Logan.
Amen....where was Thornton???!!

The Racehorse
04-22-2007, 04:40 PM
That was a tough loss.

At least Garland pitched well after a lumpy 1st inning.

Paulie can use a day off.

Did I mention it was a tough loss?

Whatever... at least the Sox won the series and we do have KC next... it could be a hell of alot worse.

JB98
04-22-2007, 04:40 PM
Does anyone know if Matt Thornton is injured? Matt pitched to only one batter Friday night. He did not pitch yesterday. With Jenks and MacDougal having pitched in the last three games, I would have thought Matt would have appeared at some point in today's game.I know Detroit is right-hand dominant, but Matt is not a lefty specialist. He is a good pitcher, capable of retiring both left- and right-handed batters. And let's be candid: Boone Logan is a young pitcher, and he is not yet ready for the big leagues.

DeuceUnit
04-22-2007, 04:40 PM
At least there won't be any more Aardsma for closer conversations anytime soon.

JermaineDye05
04-22-2007, 04:41 PM
And yet people don't think Boone's springs have been flukes, he can't handle in the bigs. Well if I had to point fingers at anyone for this loss I'd have to go with Pauly and Oz, that run in the 9th would have been the difference in that game if he could have just hit a ball to the outfield. Ozzie made some bad decisions in my mind, I felt he should have pulled Aards after he gave up the basehit to Guillen and of all the pitchers he could have brought in he brought the worst one out of the bp in probably the biggest spot in the game in the 12.

kittle42
04-22-2007, 04:41 PM
Boone Logan shouldn't be on this team, and I would have said the same thing before his wonderful performance today.

hi im skot
04-22-2007, 04:42 PM
Team loss for sure, but Konerko needs to pull his head out of his ass, and A.J. needs to use some common sense with his bunting.

And Boone Logan is garbage.

All and all, two out of three in Detroit is nice...but pissing away a game like this is absolutely brutal.

WizardsofOzzie
04-22-2007, 04:42 PM
That was a tough loss.

At least Garland picthed well after a lumpy 1st inning.

Paulie can use a day off.

Did I mention it was a tough loss?

Whatever... at least the Sox won the series and we do have KC next... it could be a hell of alot worse.
Sighhhh, you're right, but a sweep would have been so nice!!!!

Foulke You
04-22-2007, 04:42 PM
Man, I thought we had that sweep in the bag. Tough loss. Boone Logan is showing why he is "Mr. March". You get this guy off a Cactus League diamond and he can't do a damn thing. I hope they send him back to AAA and keep Anderson up with the team when Pods gets healthy.

Paulie is in a pretty bad funk right now. Thome hasn't seen a decent pitch to hit in days because they keep pitching around him to get to Paulie. Perhaps Ozzie should shuffle up the lineup and move Paulie down to #5 until he snaps out of his slump?

WizardsofOzzie
04-22-2007, 04:42 PM
Boone Logan shouldn't be on this team, and I would have said the same thing before his wonderful performance today.
I think most of us would have

Foulke You
04-22-2007, 04:44 PM
Team loss for sure, but Konerko needs to pull his head out of his ass, and A.J. needs to use some common sense with his bunting.
I think that bunt sign was coming from the bench. I don't think A.J. wanted to bunt in that situation, you could tell by his body language. They should have taken the bunt sign off and let A.J. swing away with the infielders charging in, a ground ball could have gotten thru for a hit.

Boondock Saint
04-22-2007, 04:44 PM
Perhaps Ozzie should shuffle up the lineup and move Paulie down to #5 until he snaps out of his slump?
That is an excellent idea...I'm ALL for that one.

kevingrt
04-22-2007, 04:45 PM
Team loss for sure, but Konerko needs to pull his head out of his ass, and A.J. needs to use some common sense with his bunting.

And Boone Logan is garbage.

All and all, two out of three in Detroit is nice...but pissing away a game like this is absolutely brutal.

No matter if we have a series or not won it is still annoying as hell to piss away games.

Frater Perdurabo
04-22-2007, 04:45 PM
I will take 2 out of 3 in DET any day, but losing like this really chaps my ass.

Ditto on both accounts

Tough loss. But a series win is a good thing. Keep winning series.

Agreed

Good teams like the White Sox should stick the dagger in and win games like that not choke them away.

Your statement is paradoxical. The fact of the matter is that the Sox are one of the best teams in the American League and that they took two of three from the defending AL champs on the road. Even the most optimistic among us has to accept that the Sox are going to lose at least 60 games this year.

That pretty much sums it up. This thread should be closed as not much more can really be said about today. But I am sure people will go on and on about something stupid.

I'm trying to spread the positivity. All in all this was a successful trip to Detroit. Now, let's go take two from KC.

JermaineDye05
04-22-2007, 04:45 PM
send Logan down call up Josh, Jerry, Ryan, or Luis.

Boondock Saint
04-22-2007, 04:48 PM
To add a little bit of a positivity to the thread, we're going through one hell of a tough schedule right now, and we're coming out looking pretty good lately. I hate the loss, but a road series win in Detroit is nothing to sneeze at. Let's BURY KC in the next two and flex our muscles a bit.

WizardsofOzzie
04-22-2007, 04:49 PM
At least we are only a game and a half out of first in the division. Still plenty of games left to go. I hate giving the Tigers this game but we'll get it back

Frontman
04-22-2007, 04:50 PM
Man alive, this is going to be an up and down year if we keep blowing 9th inning leads.

Paulie needs to get off the stump....NOW. And what is with our "first inning garbage fest" from our pitching, then 6-7 solid innings after that?

Ah well. 2 out of 3 aint bad, but man; should of had that one.

Front

TDog
04-22-2007, 04:52 PM
As bad as today's loss was for the Sox, yesterday's loss was as bad for the Tigers. Even in 2005, the Sox lost games like this. For that matter, the Sox were one out away from winning Game 2 of the World Series without a game-winning home run from an unlikely source.

I had no problem with bringing Aardsma in and would probably do it again. But as I pointed out in yesterday's bullpen thread, a bullpen is more awesome when it's underexposed. The Tigers had seen all of the best Sox relievers in the series. Both Jenks and Aardsma had pitched in the first two games, so in addition to any fatigue, you gave the Tigers the opportunity to go over what they did wrong facing these guys in the first place.

I don't think Guillen overused the bullpen. In close games, you do what you feel you need to do to win. Saturday it worked. Sunday, the Sox should have been able to win with five, but they also should have scored more than five. Guillen didn't lose Sunday's game. The chances were there, and people failed to execute.

The bottom line is that the White Sox took two of three in Detroit while the Twins were dropping two of three in Kansas City and the Indians were winning two of three against the Devil Rays.

Thome25
04-22-2007, 04:53 PM
Ditto on both accounts



Agreed



Your statement is paradoxical. The fact of the matter is that the Sox are one of the best teams in the American League and that they took two of three from the defending AL champs on the road. Even the most optimistic among us has to accept that the Sox are going to lose at least 60 games this year.



I'm trying to spread the positivity. All in all this was a successful trip to Detroit. Now, let's go take two from KC.

The White Sox need to slam the door shut on sure wins like the one today and the one in Oakland.

If we have those two wins back we're sitting at 11-6 and in first place rather than 4th.

We're in a tough division and if it comes down to 1 or 2 games at the end these two losses sure are going to hurt.:angry: :angry: :angry:

ilsox7
04-22-2007, 04:54 PM
The White Sox need to slam the door shut on sure wins like the one today and the one in Oakland.

If we have those two wins back we're sitting at 11-6 and in first place rather than 4th.

We're in a tough division and if it comes down to 1 or 2 games these two losses sure are going to hurt.:angry: :angry: :angry:

Shall we then count actual wins that should have been losses as losses? This shoulda coulda game is asinine.

DickAllen72
04-22-2007, 04:55 PM
What bothers me most about today is that we had Detroit mentally and emotionally down and we let them back up. Two out of three is great when you're 1 -1 after the first two. But two out of three after you're up 2 - 0 is not so good, especially when you're winning by two runs with two outs in the ninth. :(:

Oh well, that's baseball. it's over now, forget about it and start another win streak tomorrow. :gulp:

JB98
04-22-2007, 04:56 PM
send Logan down call up Josh, Jerry, Ryan, or Luis.

I don't know if there would be any at-bats available for those guys. In the case of Terrero, he'd have to be added to the 40-man roster. I don't disagree with the decision to add a 12th pitcher with Pods on the DL, but Logan has already shown us that he can't handle pressure situations at the big-league level. Haeger at least had some modest success last year. I would have preferred to see him get the recall, although I understand he is struggling at Charlotte. Perhaps the Sox are choosing from a host of bad options for that last roster spot right now.

Thome25
04-22-2007, 04:58 PM
Shall we then count actual wins that should have been losses as losses? This shoulda coulda game is asinine.

My point is that what separates good from great teams is winning the games you SHOULD be winning.

Because if we miss the playoffs by two games we'll all be looking back at losses like this one and in Oakland.

11-6 looks much better than the 9-8 record we have right now. We SHOULD be in 1st place. NOT 4th.:angry:

JB98
04-22-2007, 04:58 PM
The White Sox need to slam the door shut on sure wins like the one today and the one in Oakland.

If we have those two wins back we're sitting at 11-6 and in first place rather than 4th.

We're in a tough division and if it comes down to 1 or 2 games at the end these two losses sure are going to hurt.:angry: :angry: :angry:

Every team loses games like this. Detroit had a 3-1 lead on Kansas City in the ninth last Wednesday, and they blew it and lost in extra innings. They blew yesterday's game against us. **** happens to all teams. It just sucks when **** happens to you. That's baseball.

ArkanSox
04-22-2007, 04:59 PM
Man, we went from sweep to bleep :cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

Oh well, let's get 'em next time.
GO SOX!!!

sox1970
04-22-2007, 04:59 PM
I'm not reading previous posts, but Ozzie didn't do anything wrong with the pitching staff today. That's just baseball. Move on, and keep putting up the quality starts, and everything will work out fine.

SoxxoS
04-22-2007, 04:59 PM
Dont worry, there will be games we weren't "supposed" to win that we will...which happens to "good" teams. The creme usually rises to the top except with some abberations.

tstrike2000
04-22-2007, 05:00 PM
Be mad at Konerko and Dye going a combined 2-12 with 5 Ks, no RBIs and stranding a dozen.

True about that. At least Dye had those two hits and scored a run, but no RBI between the two of them was a killer. Even more so, Konerko going 0-6 with 3 K's really sucked as he is now at about Brian Anderson first half '06 batting avg. Perhaps with May coming he'll heat up as he's killing the Sox and me in my fantasy league.

ilsox7
04-22-2007, 05:00 PM
My point is that what separates good from great teams is winning the games you SHOULD be winning.

Because if we miss the playoffs by two games we'll all be looking back at losses like this one and in Oakland.

11-6 looks much better than the 9-8 record we have right now. We SHOULD be in 1st place. NOT 4th.:angry:

Even the best teams in the world lose a handful of games they should have won. It happens over the course of a 162 game season. And it's often evened out by winning a handful of games you shouldn't.

goon
04-22-2007, 05:03 PM
I think most of us would have

Actually, there were a fair amount of people who were VERY upset that he didn't make the team after his performance in Spring Training. Though it was understandable, the guy didn't give up an ER in all ST, but a lot of people seemed to be critical of Ozzie and Kenny's ability of judging talent.... or so it seemed.

TDog
04-22-2007, 05:04 PM
What bothers me most about today is that we had Detroit mentally and emotionally down and we let them back up. Two out of three is great when you're 1 -1 after the first two. But two out of three after you're up 2 - 0 is not so good, especially when you're winning by two runs with two outs in the ninth. :(:

Oh well, that's baseball. it's over now, forget about it and start another win streak tomorrow. :gulp:

The Tigers weren't so mentally and emotionally down that they didn't single and homer to tie the game with two out in the ninth. The Sox failed to shut them down, but the Tigers had character enough to get a single and a home run with two out in the ninth to tie the game.

I dislike the Tigers. I think the Tigers are overrated. I think their bullpen is overrated and I could go on. But the Tigers showed some character today.

Thome25
04-22-2007, 05:04 PM
Even the best teams in the world lose a handful of games they should have won. It happens over the course of a 162 game season. And it's often evened out by winning a handful of games you shouldn't.

Good point. But, that doesn't mean it hurts any less.:angry:

Harry Potter
04-22-2007, 05:07 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'm upset with the outcome of the game, but I'm not punishing the panic button now in April as I may be if this happened on our trip in September

Jurr
04-22-2007, 05:07 PM
meh. Bottom line is the Sox have faced some very good teams and have gone 9-8. They're within striking distance of first after having a tough slate of opponents.

They play KC now. These are the games that you win if you want to get to the postseason. The Sox passed the first test this year by beating Texas 2 of 3. If they beat up on KC, TB, and the others like they should (and didn't last year), they'll be fine.

Hey Sox. Go smack your little brothers from KC around.

JB98
04-22-2007, 05:08 PM
Actually, there were a fair amount of people who were VERY upset that he didn't make the team after his performance in Spring Training. Though it was understandable, the guy didn't give up an ER in all ST, but a lot of people seemed to be critical of Ozzie and Kenny's capability of judging talent.... or so it seemed.

I wasn't one of those people. I said most of the winter that if Boone Logan started the year with the Sox, then KW would have had a very poor offseason. Logan made the jump from A-ball last year, and he just wasn't ready. He still isn't ready. He needs another FULL YEAR in triple-A at least. I don't even blame him for the loss today. Unless I hear that Thornton is injured, Matt should have been in there. Let the experienced pitcher enter the game with the winning run already in scoring position. That situation was tough duty for a rookie who, IMO, belongs in triple-A.

DickAllen72
04-22-2007, 05:10 PM
The Tigers weren't so mentally and emotionally down that they didn't single and homer to tie the game with two out in the ninth.
Oh, they were down. You could see it. Thames just ran into a fastball that missed it's intended spot badly and wound up too high and right over the plate.

These things happen. It's just too bad it happened today.

PhillipsBubba
04-22-2007, 05:12 PM
Aardsma has been good so I won't complain...it's just that after he struck out Mags with a wicked breaking ball...he went fastball to the next two batters and he paid for it...would have liked to see Coop come out before he pitched to Thames...

The Racehorse
04-22-2007, 05:13 PM
Man, we went from sweep to bleep :cuss: :cuss: :cuss:

Oh well, let's get 'em next time.
GO SOX!!!

Nice! :cool:

Jurr
04-22-2007, 05:14 PM
Oh, they were down. You could see it. Thames just ran into a fastball that missed it's intended spot badly and wound up too high and right over the plate.

These things happen. It's just too bad it happened today.
Yup, it sucks. Oh well.
However, when you look at the schedule at the end of the year (hopefully with another heavy sense of satisfaction), you'll see that the Sox won 2 of 3 in Oakland and Detroit at the beginning of the year. I don't think many will remember that they both could've been swept.

Bottom line: Our boys are 9-8 and now SHOULD be able to win both against KC and get right back in Detroit's ass on Wednesday.

JB98
04-22-2007, 05:14 PM
Aardsma has been good so I won't complaiun...it's just that after he struck out Mags with a wicked breaking ball...he went fastball to the next two batters and he paid for it...would have liked to see Coop come out before he pitched to Thames...

Thames was all over the first fastball that Aardsma threw too. He just fouled it back. It's easy to say he should have thrown a breaking ball now, of course, but I think a fastball is OK if located properly. More often than not, I think it's the execution of the pitch that matters, as opposed to the selection of the pitch.

Chicken Dinner
04-22-2007, 05:17 PM
Walking the lead-off batter (especially in extra innings) is suicide. Bye bye Boone.

Jurr
04-22-2007, 05:18 PM
One other thing I'm very pleased about is this team's resiliency. Last year if they were down 4-0 or 3-0 after 1, they would've started sleepwalking through at bats, trying to knock everything out of the park.

The last two games, the Sox have been put in holes, but have still battled back, with a sincere belief in their approach. This time it was against a very tough righty. If they keep up that trend, they will win a LOT of games.

Brian26
04-22-2007, 05:21 PM
Oh, they were down. You could see it. Thames just ran into a fastball that missed it's intended spot badly and wound up too high and right over the plate.

Thames and Monroe both have those scary live bats. I hate seeing both of those guys come up as the tying or lead run late in a game.

DickAllen72
04-22-2007, 05:21 PM
Bottom line: Our boys are 9-8 and now SHOULD be able to win both against KC and get right back in Detroit's ass on Wednesday.
That's going to be a key right there. Even though it's still early in the season, these next two games are very important and should tell us a lot about what we might expect this year.

DickAllen72
04-22-2007, 05:23 PM
It's easy to say he should have thrown a breaking ball now, of course, but I think a fastball is OK if located properly. More often than not, I think it's the execution of the pitch that matters, as opposed to the selection of the pitch.
Very true.

Rockinsox05
04-22-2007, 05:23 PM
I know he was only a small part of it, but boy do I hate Boone Logan.

Mind if I join your club? I absolutely cannot stand this kid either. I never have been able to. It's not just because he stunk today. The kid is a minor league pitcher. Not a major league pitcher. I've had it with him:angry: Please trade him Kenny.

Jurr
04-22-2007, 05:24 PM
That's going to be a key right there. Even though it's still early in the season, these next two games are very important and should tell us a lot about what we might expect this year.
Very true. Last year, the Sox were crapping all over themselves against KC, which really spotlighted their overall lack of focus. They kept flying into KC expecting to dominate, and weren't ever focused enough offensively or pitching-wise to do the deed. Meanwhile, Detroit and Minnesota were winning the games they were supposed to win, and that was the difference in the division.

Rockinsox05
04-22-2007, 05:43 PM
I'm not reading previous posts, but Ozzie didn't do anything wrong with the pitching staff today. That's just baseball. Move on, and keep putting up the quality starts, and everything will work out fine.


Anytime you bring Boone Logan into a major league game you have done something wrong with your pitching staff

TDog
04-22-2007, 05:49 PM
Very true. Last year, the Sox were crapping all over themselves against KC, which really spotlighted their overall lack of focus. They kept flying into KC expecting to dominate, and weren't ever focused enough offensively or pitching-wise to do the deed. Meanwhile, Detroit and Minnesota were winning the games they were supposed to win, and that was the difference in the division.

So far this year, the Twins have 7 losses -- 2 to the DRays (against 2 wins), 2 to the Royals (against 1 win), 2 to the Yankees (against 1 win) and 1 to the White Sox (against 1 win). They swept Baltimore and Seattle, but more than half of their losses have come against two last place teams.

DickAllen72
04-22-2007, 05:53 PM
Anytime you bring Boone Logan into a major league game you have done something wrong with your pitching staff
Was Thornton unavailable for today?

infohawk
04-22-2007, 06:05 PM
Be mad at Konerko and Dye going a combined 2-12 with 5 Ks, no RBIs and stranding a dozen.
Yeah, I'm not as upset at Aardsma. Sure, he probably threw a pitch in a location he didn't need to throw it in, but he has been consistently good and wasn't going to be perfect all season. Paulie absolutely has to figure out what's wrong and get it going. Dye too. Paulie looks atrocious right now. Really out of sorts. It reminds me of 2003 a little bit. He's as close to an automatic out as we have in the line-up (right now). Nothing but weak pop-ups and weaker ground balls. Not even hitting a sacrifice fly and leaving Erstad on third with less than two outs turned out to be a large part of our undoing. I'll say this though, if Konerko, Dye and Crede ever start to hit consistently, this team can be as close to unstoppable as you can get in the game of baseball with the pitching they are generally getting.

infohawk
04-22-2007, 06:07 PM
i dont get it why wasnt bobby on for the save? (i didnt get to watch the game) did ozzie give him a day off? If not then tinkering with your closer spot when trying to get the first series sweep of the season against a division foe is unacceptable and the blame should fall squarely on ozzies shoulders if that is the case
Bobby doesn't seem to pitch too well if he's out there on too many consecutive days.

Chicken Dinner
04-22-2007, 06:14 PM
Bobby doesn't seem to pitch too well if he's out there on too many consecutive days.

Boone doesn't seem to pitch too well on any day.

itsnotrequired
04-22-2007, 06:20 PM
Boone doesn't seem to pitch too well on any day.

Except for days when he excels...but haters don't count those games.

FedEx227
04-22-2007, 06:21 PM
Except for days when he excels...but haters don't count those games.

Is anybody allowed to dislike a player? God, must we bow before anyone who dons a Palehose jersey?

itsnotrequired
04-22-2007, 06:23 PM
Is anybody allowed to dislike a player? God, must we bow before anyone who dons a Palehose jersey?

To say he doesn't pitch well on "any" day is an exaggeration and blatantly false.

Rockinsox05
04-22-2007, 06:25 PM
Except for days when he excels...but haters don't count those games.

Just exactly when is that?

FedEx227
04-22-2007, 06:26 PM
To say he doesn't pitch well on "any" day is an exaggeration and blatantly false.

I do agree, but his 2006 numbers seem to tell a different story 17.1 IP, 16 ER. However, to be fair a large majority came on a couple of real awful outings where he gave up 3-4 runs.

itsnotrequired
04-22-2007, 06:30 PM
Just exactly when is that?

This information is readily available from a multitude of sources. Here's one for you:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7715

They ain't all good but they ain't all bad either. His 2.1 IP, 0 H, 5 K performance in Cleveland last year is one that stands out. Hell, just 5 days ago he faced one batter and got him out. What would have made you happy in that game? He kills a batter?

Frontman
04-22-2007, 06:55 PM
Is anybody allowed to dislike a player? God, must we bow before anyone who dons a Palehose jersey?

Does that include Brian Anderson? As I don't like him.

Dibbs
04-22-2007, 07:23 PM
Bobby doesn't seem to pitch too well if he's out there on too many consecutive days.

Bobby threw 11 pitches and 9 pitches in each of the last two games. A total of 20 pitches and he's too tired to go for the series sweep against the defending American League champs.

I can't see Gardenhire sitting Nathan or any other manager sitting their closer against us. I don't agree with Ozzie's decision at all. He shouldn't have messed with Aardsma the way he was pitching anyway.

Rockinsox05
04-22-2007, 07:25 PM
This information is readily available from a multitude of sources. Here's one for you:

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7715

They ain't all good but they ain't all bad either. His 2.1 IP, 0 H, 5 K performance in Cleveland last year is one that stands out. Hell, just 5 days ago he faced one batter and got him out. What would have made you happy in that game? He kills a batter?

Well I'm sorry but, a career 7.71 ERA with a Whip of over 2 doesn't impress me much. 18.2 innings, 23 hits, 16 runs, 15 walks. He's a real good AAA pitcher so I say he should go flex his muscle in Charlotte

MarySwiss
04-22-2007, 07:31 PM
The sweep would have been nice, especially coupled with the Twinkies' loss. But hard to blame any particular player or players. C'mon, the two guys who had the worst day offensively were JD and Paulie. And I sure as hell hope no one on this site believes that is in any way significant or that it is a fair predictor of how their season will go. And Aardsma gave up the game-tying homer. It'll happen; he and the rest of the bullpen have been pretty damn good so far overall.

They'll be fine.

Thome25
04-22-2007, 07:32 PM
Mind if I join your club? I absolutely cannot stand this kid either. I never have been able to. It's not just because he stunk today. The kid is a minor league pitcher. Not a major league pitcher. I've had it with him:angry: Please trade him Kenny.

I'd have to agree with you and skobabe. Besides the fact that he flat out sucks he has a bad attitude and a big mouth too.

FedEx227
04-22-2007, 07:32 PM
Does that include Brian Anderson? As I don't like him.

Yes, that's fine. There are plenty of players on home teams that fans absolutely can't stand.

Jurr
04-22-2007, 07:33 PM
Bobby threw 11 pitches and 9 pitches in each of the last two games. A total of 20 pitches and he's too tired to go for the series sweep against the defending American League champs.

I can't see Gardenhire sitting Nathan or any other manager sitting their closer against us. I don't agree with Ozzie's decision at all. He shouldn't have messed with Aardsma the way he was pitching anyway.
Managers rest their closers all the time. If a guy has worked two consecutive games, he almost never gets used the third.

As far as taking out Aardsma, he was going with a hunch. We're all experts in hindsight. Most people wouldn't have put Geoff Blum in game 3, either. That worked out. It's up to the players.

chisoxfanatic
04-22-2007, 07:40 PM
The sweep would have been nice, especially coupled with the Twinkies' loss. But hard to blame any particular player or players. C'mon, the two guys who had the worst day offensively were JD and Paulie. And I sure as hell hope no one on this site believes that is in any way significant or that it is a fair predictor of how their season will go. And Aardsma gave up the game-tying homer. It'll happen; he and the rest of the bullpen have been pretty damn good so far overall.

They'll be fine.

Thank you for the voice of reason, Mary! They're gonna get right back on it tomorrow night in KC. And, we get the Tigers at our house in just a few days. Things are going to be all right.

RockJock07
04-22-2007, 07:44 PM
crappy loss. I really do think that Ozzie needs to sit Konerko down at least tomorrow and maybe the next day too. He just doesn't have it right now. 8 LOB today, 8 LOB the other night vs. the Rangers, he just looks lost. I love paulie, but he needs a break. Plus, then Darin can play first and BA can finnally get some AB's

As far a logan, he's awful. I think Kenny will need to get another LHP for the bullpen before the trade deadline.

It was nice to see Erstad with 3 hits, it seems like he finnally coming around.

MarySwiss
04-22-2007, 07:45 PM
Thank you for the voice of reason, Mary! They're gonna get right back on it tomorrow night in KC. And, we get the Tigers at our house in just a few days. Things are going to be all right.

Well, of course we'll get accused of being Pollyannas, but who cares?

I still think the fact that we're not going for a three-peat this year is a total fluke. And anyone who disagrees is welcome to. :D:

Patrick134
04-22-2007, 08:07 PM
Thames and Monroe both have those scary live bats. I hate seeing both of those guys come up as the tying or lead run late in a game.


Amen. Bat found ball. I wouldn't give Thames too much credit, nor Aardsma too much blame. Stuff happens.

FedEx227
04-22-2007, 08:13 PM
Amen. Bat found ball. I wouldn't give Thames too much credit, nor Aardsma too much blame. Stuff happens.

Are you serious? Thames is an absolute monster who destroys high fastballs.

Last year 348 at-bats, 26 homers, 60 RBIs, .549 SLG.

If he played every day and kept up those averages (say 530 at-bats): 39 HR, 91 RBI

I'd take it.

Frontman
04-22-2007, 08:15 PM
Yes, that's fine. There are plenty of players on home teams that fans absolutely can't stand.


Cool, I didn't want to be the lonely voice in the wilderness who isn't in the "Free Brian Anderson" camp. :D:

Jerko
04-22-2007, 08:16 PM
I'm not against Aardsma starting the 9th, but Massett and Logan in extras???? That's what happens sooner or later I guess when you continually use 5 or 6 pitchers every day. Konerkofer needs to realize he's not gonna bat 1.000 before he ends up batting .100. He shrugs or pouts EVERY out he makes. People make outs Paulie, get over it and start helping this team.

FedEx227
04-22-2007, 08:17 PM
Cool, I didn't want to be the lonely voice in the wilderness who isn't in the "Free Brian Anderson" camp. :D:

Hey, no beef at all. Some people are different. I've always been a guy who preferred to give younger players a chance over vets, while people are the other way around. That's what makes baseball so great, 7/10 people would fill out a lineup card differently. I doubt you'd ever seen that in basketball or even football.

MCHSoxFan
04-22-2007, 08:17 PM
Team loss for sure, but Konerko needs to pull his head out of his ass, and A.J. needs to use some common sense with his bunting.

And Boone Logan is garbage.

All and all, two out of three in Detroit is nice...but pissing away a game like this is absolutely brutal.

YEEEESSSS!!! This is what I was thinking a little while after the game. Just remember, we cannot play blindly against KC. They CAN BEAT us.

FedEx227
04-22-2007, 08:19 PM
YEEEESSSS!!! This is what I was thinking a little while after the game. Just remember, we cannot play blindly against KC. They CAN BEAT us.

And have, a lot of times in the most recent years.

Hitmen77
04-22-2007, 08:28 PM
The sweep would have been nice, especially coupled with the Twinkies' loss. But hard to blame any particular player or players. C'mon, the two guys who had the worst day offensively were JD and Paulie. And I sure as hell hope no one on this site believes that is in any way significant or that it is a fair predictor of how their season will go. And Aardsma gave up the game-tying homer. It'll happen; he and the rest of the bullpen have been pretty damn good so far overall.

They'll be fine.

:thumbsup: Thank you. Yes, it's tough to lose when you're an out away from beating a division rival. But tough losses happen, but good teams move on and start new winning streaks.

The Sox starting pitchers and bullpen are still looking great overall. Once our big hitters start coming around (and they will), this team will be tough to beat.

Thome25
04-22-2007, 08:35 PM
The sweep would have been nice, especially coupled with the Twinkies' loss. But hard to blame any particular player or players. C'mon, the two guys who had the worst day offensively were JD and Paulie. And I sure as hell hope no one on this site believes that is in any way significant or that it is a fair predictor of how their season will go. And Aardsma gave up the game-tying homer. It'll happen; he and the rest of the bullpen have been pretty damn good so far overall.

They'll be fine.

If I stayed optimistic all the time, then I'd feel too much like a Cubs fan. I absolutely CANNOT have a "everything is great", optimistic Cub fan mentality.

If I did then I wouldn't be a Sox fan then would I? We as Sox fans have a glass is half empty mentality......and unfortunately we always will.

With that said, I'm still optimistic about this season so far. These two losses (Oakland and today) this early in the season sting a little that's all.

Grzegorz
04-22-2007, 08:37 PM
i dont get it why wasnt bobby on for the save?

On the pregame show Don Cooper mentioned that Jenks would be ready to go. McDougall was the only guy they'd hold out. That being said, Cooper did hint that Jenks needn't be used in a save situation because the rest of the pen was fresh.

I think that bunt sign was coming from the bench. I don't think A.J. wanted to bunt in that situation, you could tell by his body language. They should have taken the bunt sign off and let A.J. swing away with the infielders charging in, a ground ball could have gotten thru for a hit.

AJ didn't like the bunt sign? Too bad...

If AJ gets the bunt sign he'd better go up their with a positive attitude and do his best to get the bunt down.

The "little things" win games...

kevingrt
04-22-2007, 08:52 PM
crappy loss. I really do think that Ozzie needs to sit Konerko down at least tomorrow and maybe the next day too. He just doesn't have it right now. 8 LOB today, 8 LOB the other night vs. the Rangers, he just looks lost. I love paulie, but he needs a break. Plus, then Darin can play first and BA can finnally get some AB's

As far a logan, he's awful. I think Kenny will need to get another LHP for the bullpen before the trade deadline.

It was nice to see Erstad with 3 hits, it seems like he finnally coming around.

The only thing is no one has ever broken out of a batting slump sitting on the bench and I don't think PK will be the first one to do so. He has to fight through and maybe get a duck snort to spark his offense.

whitesoxfan
04-22-2007, 09:06 PM
Are you serious? Thames is an absolute monster who destroys high fastballs.

Last year 348 at-bats, 26 homers, 60 RBIs, .549 SLG.

If he played every day and kept up those averages (say 530 at-bats): 39 HR, 91 RBI

I'd take it.

Exactly. When Thames came up to the bat as the tying run, I did have a feeling that he would tie it up. He did it several times last year and all of us know how good they are in the bottom of the 9th and in the clutch. They're a very good fastball hitting team, especially Thames. I really wasn't surprised at all when he hit it out.

Still befuddled why Ozzie went with Boone over Thornton. That's a move that made absolutely no sense.

Oh well, I guess. Buehrle on the mound tomorrow against some KC also-ran. We have to win these next two.

pearso66
04-22-2007, 09:21 PM
If I stayed optimistic all the time, then I'd feel too much like a Cubs fan. I absolutely CANNOT have a "everything is great", optimistic Cub fan mentality.

If I did then I wouldn't be a Sox fan then would I? We as Sox fans have a glass is half empty mentality......and unfortunately we always will.

With that said, I'm still optimistic about this season so far. These two losses (Oakland and today) this early in the season sting a little that's all.

I think you have that wrong. A Sox fan is allowed to stay optimistic, especially when they only lose 1 or 2 games out of quite a few. The difference between Sox and Cubs fans is, the Cubs win only 50 games one year, and the next year their fans are believing they are going to the World Series, even when they don't improve, or get worse. A Sox fan will demand that their team improves

MarySwiss
04-22-2007, 09:32 PM
I think you have that wrong. A Sox fan is allowed to stay optimistic, especially when they only lose 1 or 2 games out of quite a few. The difference between Sox and Cubs fans is, the Cubs win only 50 games one year, and the next year their fans are believing they are going to the World Series, even when they don't improve, or get worse. A Sox fan will demand that their team improves

EXACTLY! And thank you! That is the essence of the difference. We don't settle for mediocrity. Batting or pitching slumps are a different animal from sustained failure.

Also, thank you, kevingrt. You are so right! Sitting Paulie is probably the worst idea I have ever heard. He's been in slumps before and he just needs his bat to come around.

And once again, a reminder-IT'S APRIL! Sheesh!

INSox56
04-22-2007, 09:51 PM
Man, I thought we had that sweep in the bag. Tough loss. Boone Logan is showing why he is "Mr. March". You get this guy off a Cactus League diamond and he can't do a damn thing. I hope they send him back to AAA and keep Anderson up with the team when Pods gets healthy.

Paulie is in a pretty bad funk right now. Thome hasn't seen a decent pitch to hit in days because they keep pitching around him to get to Paulie. Perhaps Ozzie should shuffle up the lineup and move Paulie down to #5 until he snaps out of his slump?Perhaps? He should have done that 3 or 4 games ago. This bull**** from Konerko pisses me off, mostly because Ozzie is too stupid to drop him behind dye. After the DP, what happens...next inning dye leadoff single. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Konerko's slump has gotten more than agrivating

slobes
04-22-2007, 10:24 PM
EXACTLY! And thank you! That is the essence of the difference. We don't settle for mediocrity. Batting or pitching slumps are a different animal from sustained failure.

Also, thank you, kevingrt. You are so right! Sitting Paulie is probably the worst idea I have ever heard. He's been in slumps before and he just needs his bat to come around.

And once again, a reminder-IT'S APRIL! Sheesh!

I believe I heard Farmer say the other day that Paulie's hands have really been hurting him. They've been so sore that in (I think) yesterday's game, he actually didn't even take batting practice on the field before the game. If this is the case, maybe a day off isn't the worst thing in the world.

Thome25
04-22-2007, 10:34 PM
I think you have that wrong. A Sox fan is allowed to stay optimistic, especially when they only lose 1 or 2 games out of quite a few. The difference between Sox and Cubs fans is, the Cubs win only 50 games one year, and the next year their fans are believing they are going to the World Series, even when they don't improve, or get worse. A Sox fan will demand that their team improves

That's the reason for the somewhat pessimistic mentality that we have. White Sox fans are realists and we know the game and we also know our team.

Because we really are so knowledgeable about the White Sox and the game in general, alot of times we can see the storm before it gets here. (Does my analogy make sense?)

We don't go around thinking everything is smiley faces, gumdrops, lollipops, and bubblegum like a certain other fanbase.

Not everything is peaches and cream for the Sox fan because we expect our team to be a winner and NOTHING LESS. We know when something isn't right and we're the first ones to tell you so.

DannyCaterFan
04-22-2007, 10:40 PM
What nobody is mentioning about today's game is that Ozzie should have stayed with Garland in the 9th inning. I believe his pitch count was at 102 after 8 innings, and he was sailing through the Detroit batting order. Whatever happened to complete games? Ozzie always believes he has to go to a closer. I'm surprised he didn't pull Burlhle out after 8 innings last Wednesday!

A. Cavatica
04-22-2007, 11:00 PM
What nobody is mentioning about today's game is that Ozzie should have stayed with Garland in the 9th inning. I believe his pitch count was at 102 after 8 innings, and he was sailing through the Detroit batting order. Whatever happened to complete games? Ozzie always believes he has to go to a closer. I'm surprised he didn't pull Burlhle out after 8 innings last Wednesday!

This was a disappointing loss, but for once I won't second-guess Ozzie. The way the pen has been going, how could you not expect them to slam the door? And as for Logan, the Tigers got to Aardsma and Masset too...

delben91
04-22-2007, 11:01 PM
White Sox fans are realists and we know the game and we also know our team.

Because we really are so knowledgeable about the White Sox and the game in general, alot of times we can see the storm before it gets here. (Does my analogy make sense?)


Your analogy makes perfect sense, and I agree with you. I do think though, that some folks will at times not so much see the storm before it gets here, but be anticipating a storm with such certainty, that they try to create one where sometimes one does not exist.

That said, today's game ended crappily, however, if all I were to see was the Sox taking 2 of 3 from the Tigers in Detroit (and not the circumstances of each game), I'd be pretty pleased with that. So on to KC, where we can make up for this afternoon.

BainesHOF
04-22-2007, 11:10 PM
With our two best relievers on the shelf today, there is no reason why Garland couldn't have pitched the ninth inning.

Also, as stated in a couple posts above, Thames is a good fastball hitter who has a flair for the dramatic. It would be nice if A.J. knew that too. Calling for fastball after fastball after fastball isn't going to get the job done.

thomas35forever
04-22-2007, 11:14 PM
I said this in the game thread. This is what I get for trying to start a postgame thread before the last out. In all seriousness though, this might have happened because we've been using Aardsma too much. Macdougal probably woud've been a good bet in the ninth. This is just my opinion.

itsnotrequired
04-22-2007, 11:16 PM
What nobody is mentioning about today's game is that Ozzie should have stayed with Garland in the 9th inning. I believe his pitch count was at 102 after 8 innings, and he was sailing through the Detroit batting order. Whatever happened to complete games? Ozzie always believes he has to go to a closer. I'm surprised he didn't pull Burlhle out after 8 innings last Wednesday!

With our two best relievers on the shelf today, there is no reason why Garland couldn't have pitched the ninth inning.

Also, as stated in a couple posts above, Thames is a good fastball hitter who has a flair for the dramatic. It would be nice if A.J. knew that too. Calling for fastball after fastball after fastball isn't going to get the job done.

Garland had over 100 pitches, a two run lead and a lights-out bullpen. I saw no need to send Garland out there in the 9th and put more wear on his arm than necessary. It's April and there is still a long way to go...

FedEx227
04-22-2007, 11:25 PM
Garland had over 100 pitches, a two run lead and a lights-out bullpen. I saw no need to send Garland out there in the 9th and put more wear on his arm than necessary. It's April and there is still a long way to go...

Are you working for the Sox PR department now?

Keeping Garland out for the 9th in hopes of defeating a division rival that also happened to reach the World Series the previous year is not a bad idea. Pitch count wise, he was hardly over 100. Personally, I think you put him out there and but have guys in the bullpen ready, if he starts to labor, starts to struggle then you can take him out. But to not give him at least a chance to finish what he started is pretty stupid.

Wear on his arm? Just like you said, it's April. His arm is as fresh as possible. Would I leave him in in September if we're beating the Royals by 5, no way. When we're up two against a huge division rival, and he's only had 102 pitches, you have to give him a chance. Add in the fact that Garland is not the type of pitcher who will really wear his arm out. He doesn't throw blazing fastballs or sliders, he throws balls the sinker which its one of the few pitches that doesn't put a whole lot of strain on the arm.

Yeah, there is still a long way to go, but every win counts against divisional rivals, especially in the AL Central where it's going to take 95+ wins to take the division.

itsnotrequired
04-22-2007, 11:30 PM
Are you working for the Sox PR department now?

Keeping Garland out for the 9th in hopes of defeating a division rival that also happened to reach the World Series the previous year is not a bad idea. Pitch count wise, he was hardly over 100. Personally, I think you put him out there and but have guys in the bullpen ready, if he starts to labor, starts to struggle then you can take him out. But to not give him at least a chance to finish what he started is pretty stupid.

Wear on his arm? Just like you said, it's April. His arm is as fresh as possible. Would I leave him in in September if we're beating the Royals by 5, no way. When we're up two against a huge division rival, and he's only had 102 pitches, you have to give him a chance.

Yeah, there is still a long way to go, but every win counts against divisional rivals, especially in the AL Central where it's going to take 95+ wins to take the division.

You make it out like Ozzie must have been blind to not realize Garland should have started the 9th. The reasons you bring up to have him start the 9th are just as valid as my reasons why he didn't have to. Ozzie made the decision to pull him and it didn't work out this time. That's it. We can second guess the decision forever but it isn't like Ozzie pulled a guy on cruise control for someone like '06 Politte.

dcb56
04-23-2007, 12:45 AM
You make it out like Ozzie must have been blind to not realize Garland should have started the 9th. The reasons you bring up to have him start the 9th are just as valid as my reasons why he didn't have to. Ozzie made the decision to pull him and it didn't work out this time. That's it. We can second guess the decision forever but it isn't like Ozzie pulled a guy on cruise control for someone like '06 Politte.

Ya, and how many playoff games did the White Sox win in 2006? That strategy really paid off last year. I know I should be happy the Sox won the series this weekend, but it still really irks me that they had their foot on the Tigers' neck this weekend and were about to slit the jugular but gave it away late because Ozzie decided to experiment with the closer position by bringing in someone who has never closed a game during an intense divisional matchup. Ya, I understand both Jenks and MacDougall have worked a ton the past few days and were unavailable today, so why not go with the next best option and let a cruising Garland finish what he started? Saving Bobby and Jon for September and October isn't going to do you any good if you give away enough games during April and May.

That being said, the offense had many opportunites to score but failed, so although Ozzie's move to Aardsma in the 9th is questionable, the offense is most definitely equally at fault for this loss.

Vernam
04-23-2007, 01:00 AM
It didn't affect the outcome (though it easily could have), but what I'll take away from this game is that Anderson dug his hole even deeper by loafing on the late single that Inge stretched into a double. No excuse for that, especially from a kid who's been complaining about his playing time.

What a drag letting the sweep slip away, but that was our best week of baseball by far, even despite a lot of offensive inconsistency. As the bats start to warm up, I think we're about to go on a run.

Vernam

JB98
04-23-2007, 01:19 AM
Cool, I didn't want to be the lonely voice in the wilderness who isn't in the "Free Brian Anderson" camp. :D:

You are not the lonely voice in the wilderness. I also believe BA has earned his spot on the bench.Several hours later, I still wish Ozzie would have brought Matt Thornton into the game.

WhiteSox5187
04-23-2007, 01:23 AM
Well, we probably should have lost yesterday and should have won today so I guess it's just the karma gods balancing it all out. Still I will take two out of three in every series thank you very much. Let's go to KC and take two there and hope Paulie breaks out of his slump.

whitesoxfan
04-23-2007, 01:47 AM
You make it out like Ozzie must have been blind to not realize Garland should have started the 9th. The reasons you bring up to have him start the 9th are just as valid as my reasons why he didn't have to. Ozzie made the decision to pull him and it didn't work out this time. That's it. We can second guess the decision forever but it isn't like Ozzie pulled a guy on cruise control for someone like '06 Politte.

Exactly. You can second guess all you want, but I think Ozzie made the right move in taking Garland out after 105 pitches in 8 innings.

Nellie_Fox
04-23-2007, 02:18 AM
Perhaps? He should have done that 3 or 4 games ago. This bull**** from Konerko pisses me off, mostly because Ozzie is too stupid to drop him behind dye. After the DP, what happens...next inning dye leadoff single. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Konerko's slump has gotten more than agrivatingYeah, and it's not like they'd pitch Dye differently when he's leading off than with runners on.

What nobody is mentioning about today's game is that Ozzie should have stayed with Garland in the 9th inning. I believe his pitch count was at 102 after 8 innings, and he was sailing through the Detroit batting order. Whatever happened to complete games? Ozzie always believes he has to go to a closer. I'm surprised he didn't pull Burlhle out after 8 innings last Wednesday!Is it just possible that Ozzie talks to his pitcher and his catcher to find out if he is running out of gas?

It didn't affect the outcome (though it easily could have), but what I'll take away from this game is that Anderson dug his hole even deeper by loafing on the late single that Inge stretched into a double. No excuse for that, especially from a kid who's been complaining about his playing time.I guess I'm not surprised that it took until almost the end of this thread before someone mentioned this, being that the "free BA" crowd can't accept that maybe this kid has some attitude issues. I'll concede that I didn't see the play, because I was only listening on XM, but the Detroit announcers commented on how deep he was playing (I'll grant that positioning the outfielders is a manager/bench coach call) and that, as they put it, he "nonchalanted" the play into a double. They said he didn't hustle to the ball at all.

If you want more playing time, you need to show something when you're in the game.

ilsox7
04-23-2007, 02:23 AM
If you want more playing time, you need to show something when you're in the game.

It was talked about in the game thread some and most shared this opinion. Also, I am surprised no one has brought this up, but a week or two ago there was a blurb in the Tribune about Sox scouts being miffed that 2 "young players" were seen watching TV shows before a game instead of watching film or doing something more productive. Whether someone is a fan of BA playing or not playing, I think most can agree that there is something going on behind the scenes that has been kept very, very quiet.

EDIT: I found the blurb (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-070414askmarkgonzales,1,5535337.story?page=2&coll=chi-sportstop-hed) in a mailbag:

It's a matter of preparation. One Sox coach was baffled that two young players were watching a TV show before Friday's game instead of watching tape of Fausto Carmona and some Tribe hitters. Greg Walker and Mike Gellinger prepare the hitters with plenty of information on pitchers. I was surprised last year when they had tape of left-handed rookie J.P. Howell, then of Kansas City.

Rob190
04-23-2007, 02:24 AM
It didn't affect the outcome (though it easily could have), but what I'll take away from this game is that Anderson dug his hole even deeper by loafing on the late single that Inge stretched into a double. No excuse for that, especially from a kid who's been complaining about his playing time.

What a drag letting the sweep slip away, but that was our best week of baseball by far, even despite a lot of offensive inconsistency. As the bats start to warm up, I think we're about to go on a run.

Vernam

Not too mention he looked absolutely horrible at the plate today.

dcb56
04-23-2007, 02:26 AM
You are not the lonely voice in the wilderness. I also believe BA has earned his spot on the bench.Several hours later, I still wish Ozzie would have brought Matt Thornton into the game.

I'm a huge BA supporter, and even I have to admit he didn't do anything to help further his cause today. It's absolutely inexcusable he let Inge strech what should've been a single into a double (it looked like he was walking toward the ball), and he's definitely got to do better with the playing time he gets if he wants more. I am now becoming more worried than ever with what is going to happen with the Sox OF next season, especially if JD does not return.

jabrch
04-23-2007, 08:10 AM
i dont get it why wasnt bobby on for the save? (i didnt get to watch the game) did ozzie give him a day off? If not then tinkering with your closer spot when trying to get the first series sweep of the season against a division foe is unacceptable and the blame should fall squarely on ozzies shoulders if that is the case

That's stupid. You don't burn your closer in APRIL by having him go on four days rest. Neither Jenks nor MacDougal were available yesterday unless the game went to emergency situations. Ozzie did what nearly every other major league manager would have done.

The blame almost never falls squarely on any one person's shoulders, but if I was looking for one person, I'd look right to Paulie's shoulders. He had another frightfully poor day. The guys in front of him and behind him are setting him up. He's just flat out not getting it done. In the 9th, if he just could have gotten that run home, we'd have never been talking about extras.

He's been a boatanchor on this team this season in every measurable way. I'm sure he will get hot soon - and when he does - watch out. But he'd just not hitting the ball at an acceptable level yet, and he's costing us baseball games.

itsnotrequired
04-23-2007, 08:30 AM
Yeah, there is still a long way to go, but every win counts against divisional rivals, especially in the AL Central where it's going to take 95+ wins to take the division.

The AL Central teams are going to wail on each other this season. 90 wins could very well be all it takes to win the division. Get ready for a lot more of these back-and-forth, should of-could of type of games.

Actually, I feel that the Royals will be the wild card in all this. They might not even sniff the playoffs but they are an improved team that should no longer be considered a punching bag. How the "Big 4" perform against KC will be a major factor in the standings at the end of the season.

Jurr
04-23-2007, 08:53 AM
The AL Central teams are going to wail on each other this season. 90 wins could very well be all it takes to win the division. Get ready for a lot more of these back-and-forth, should of-could of type of games.

Actually, I feel that the Royals will be the wild card in all this. They might not even sniff the playoffs but they are an improved team that should no longer be considered a punching bag. How the "Big 4" perform against KC will be a major factor in the standings at the end of the season.
Because they play each team 19 times, KC will determine who goes to the playoffs out of the central. The other four teams will be picking each other off all year, and those games against Kansas City will be oh so important.

itsnotrequired
04-23-2007, 09:03 AM
Because they play each team 19 times, KC will determine who goes to the playoffs out of the central. The other four teams will be picking each other off all year, and those games against Kansas City will be oh so important.

Yes,it is early in the season but the Royals are already 4-5 against Central opponents. Against the Central and at this same point in the season, they were 3-7 in 2006 and 3-8 in 2005.

Cleveland is 2 games over .500 so far versus the Central and every other Central team is either one game over or under .500.

WizardsofOzzie
04-23-2007, 09:09 AM
The AL Central teams are going to wail on each other this season. 90 wins could very well be all it takes to win the division. Get ready for a lot more of these back-and-forth, should of-could of type of games.

Actually, I feel that the Royals will be the wild card in all this. They might not even sniff the playoffs but they are an improved team that should no longer be considered a punching bag. How the "Big 4" perform against KC will be a major factor in the standings at the end of the season.
Agreed. After all that has happened in this early season, we are only 1.5 games back in the division (The Twins have only played 5 games within the division as opposed to our 11, so they will slow down soon enough) Nobody has taken a big lead yet because nobody has had a dominating record within the division yet. We are going to beat each other up for awhile, and I agree with itsnotrequired that whoever doesn't play down to KC (as well at Tampa Bay, and the other lower sitting teams) will end up sitting pretty.

LauraJ14
04-23-2007, 09:40 AM
That's stupid. You don't burn your closer in APRIL by having him go on four days rest. Neither Jenks nor MacDougal were available yesterday unless the game went to emergency situations. Ozzie did what nearly every other major league manager would have done.

The blame almost never falls squarely on any one person's shoulders, but if I was looking for one person, I'd look right to Paulie's shoulders. He had another frightfully poor day. The guys in front of him and behind him are setting him up. He's just flat out not getting it done. In the 9th, if he just could have gotten that run home, we'd have never been talking about extras.

He's been a boatanchor on this team this season in every measurable way. I'm sure he will get hot soon - and when he does - watch out. But he'd just not hitting the ball at an acceptable level yet, and he's costing us baseball games.


So its bash Paulie day, didn't he drive in 2 runs on Friday or Saturday with the bases loaded to put the Sox ahead, and didn't he double to start the 10th on Saturday and score the go ahead run?
He isn't going to get a hit every time there are runners in scoring position - and to say that he is costing us baseball games is silly.
It was a team loss yesterday, not just one person's fault.

INSox56
04-23-2007, 10:01 AM
Yeah, and it's not like they'd pitch Dye differently when he's leading off than with runners on.
Well no **** they would, but he definitely has shown he needs to be behind thome much moreso than Konerko does. They're both righties, so it's not throwing off the whole LRLR thing...why put a guy who seems like more and more of an automatic out in a more important position?
So its bash Paulie day, didn't he drive in 2 runs on Friday or Saturday with the bases loaded to put the Sox ahead, and didn't he double to start the 10th on Saturday and score the go ahead run?
He isn't going to get a hit every time there are runners in scoring position - and to say that he is costing us baseball games is silly.
It was a team loss yesterday, not just one person's fault.

0-5 with 3 Ks is a bit more than just having a bad day, seems like this is closer to the norm than anything anymore.

jabrch
04-23-2007, 10:03 AM
So its bash Paulie day,

If you look at his performances this year, he deserves it. Your best hitter is hitting .175/.307/.286. He's 2 for 22 the past 5 games. He's only walked 2 times during that stretch, so it's not like his OBP is helping (not that I am interested in my clean up hitters OBP when he's hitting under .200.)

I am a huge PK fan - but his play to date has been unacceptable for a guy who is undoubtedly one of the best hitters on this team, and someone who we are counting on to win us games.

It was a team loss yesterday, not just one person's fault.

Didn't I say, "The blame almost never falls squarely on any one person's shoulders, but if I was looking for one person, I'd look right to Paulie's shoulders."

Of course it isn't just one person's fault. But your $15mm, cleanup hitter went 0 for 6 with 3 Ks, left 8 guys on base, including the insurance run that would have won us the game in the 9th when all he needed to do was get the sac fly. It's almost never just one person's fault. But you can't possibly be even close to satisfied with what we have seen from PK so far.

I'm a huge fan - and I know he will heat up soon. When he does, watch out. But that doesn't make a day (or even a month) like this excusable.

itsnotrequired
04-23-2007, 10:07 AM
0-5 with 3 Ks is a bit more than just having a bad day, seems like this is closer to the norm than anything anymore.

:rolleyes:

spiffie
04-23-2007, 10:38 AM
Well no **** they would, but he (Dye) definitely has shown he needs to be behind thome much moreso than Konerko does. They're both righties, so it's not throwing off the whole LRLR thing...why put a guy who seems like more and more of an automatic out in a more important position?
Interesting, his splits from last year:
Batting 3rd: 141 PA, 285/369/561
Batting 4th: 71 PA, 387/451/726
Batting 5th: 397 PA, 315/380/628

Looking at the gamelogs it seems that he batted fourth most of the time interleague play, which would imply that Thome was out most of those games.

INSox56
04-23-2007, 10:40 AM
:rolleyes:What, you're going to tell me that this is off base? Sorry for saying 0-5 when it was really 0-6....He's .150 in his last 10 games...yeah that's really a far off statement by me. I'm not saying bench the guy, but for christ sake, take him out of the biggest run producing spot in the lineup.

SBSoxFan
04-23-2007, 10:40 AM
At least there won't be any more Aardsma for closer conversations anytime soon.

You're right. All those people who say 3 outs in the ninth are no different then any other 3 outs might not be right!

As frustrating is this loss was, it's also why baseball is such a great game. It's only decided once the 27th out is made --- no clocks, no giving the ball to one person --- everyone gets a fair shake. The only similar events I can think of are the 'hail mary' pass in football and the desperation 3-point shot in basketball. The successful occurrence of those is quite rare compared to baseball where comebacks are fairly common.

I love this game! Now, let's sweep KC!

SBSoxFan
04-23-2007, 10:50 AM
Walking the lead-off batter (especially in extra innings) is suicide. Bye bye Boone.

Actually, it was Masset who walked the lead-off batter, no?

itsnotrequired
04-23-2007, 11:00 AM
What, you're going to tell me that this is off base? Sorry for saying 0-5 when it was really 0-6....He's .150 in his last 10 games...yeah that's really a far off statement by me. I'm not saying bench the guy, but for christ sake, take him out of the biggest run producing spot in the lineup.

Konerko is in a slump, plain and simple. Sure, give him a day off but it isn't like Konerko will be heading to Charlotte to get his act together.

He went 0-6 and you said this "is closer to the norm". What "norm" are you referring to? His career .282 AVE? His .387 AVE batting from the 4-hole last season? Please clue me in here because I don't know what you are talking about.

SBSoxFan
04-23-2007, 11:01 AM
If I stayed optimistic all the time, then I'd feel too much like a Cubs fan. I absolutely CANNOT have a "everything is great", optimistic Cub fan mentality.

If I did then I wouldn't be a Sox fan then would I? We as Sox fans have a glass is half empty mentality......and unfortunately we always will.

With that said, I'm still optimistic about this season so far. These two losses (Oakland and today) this early in the season sting a little that's all.

I'd prefer to think of it as a realistic mentality. There's one thing to believing your team is going to win simply because you want them to and hope they will versus having some modicum of fact and experience to substantiate your optimism.

INSox56
04-23-2007, 11:07 AM
Konerko is in a slump, plain and simple. Sure, give him a day off but it isn't like Konerko will be heading to Charlotte to get his act together.

He went 0-6 and you said this "is closer to the norm". What "norm" are you referring to? His career .282 AVE? His .387 AVE batting from the 4-hole last season? Please clue me in here because I don't know what you are talking about.norm as in his last 10ish games or so.

jabrch
04-23-2007, 11:49 AM
I'd prefer to think of it as a realistic mentality. There's one thing to believing your team is going to win simply because you want them to and hope they will versus having some modicum of fact and experience to substantiate your optimism.

There's also a significant difference between knowing that your team won't win every game, and whinning and bitching about every single decision and handwringing about every single loss. I doubt there is anyone here without a "modicum of fact" to support their optimism. I doubt there is anyone thinking we will "win simply because we want them to". But the griping and bitching that goes on here and on sports radio about every little decision after a loss is assinine.

We have a GM and a coaching staff that is paid to be baseball experts. They are. People may not like the theory that our manager and GM support, but at the end of the day you can't really argue that it has no chance to succeed - since it does succeed, more often than it fails.

There is no reason to bitch about Sunday's loss. Our closer and our backup closer were not available under normal circumstances. They had gone too many days in a row and our schedule has us playing 13 days in a row without a day off to end April. You don't burn your bullpen in April, no matter what the game. The incessant complaining about every single decision by fans who seem to believe they have more expertise than the GM, Manager and coaches is remarkable - and it has gotten progressively worse with all the newly minted WSI members since Augustish 2005.

Jerko
04-23-2007, 12:07 PM
My question is why are so many pitchers "unavailable" so early in the year??? They don't bring themselves into games........

PeoriaSoxFan
04-23-2007, 01:53 PM
There's also a significant difference between knowing that your team won't win every game, and whinning and bitching about every single decision and handwringing about every single loss. I doubt there is anyone here without a "modicum of fact" to support their optimism. I doubt there is anyone thinking we will "win simply because we want them to". But the griping and bitching that goes on here and on sports radio about every little decision after a loss is assinine.

We have a GM and a coaching staff that is paid to be baseball experts. They are. People may not like the theory that our manager and GM support, but at the end of the day you can't really argue that it has no chance to succeed - since it does succeed, more often than it fails.

There is no reason to bitch about Sunday's loss. Our closer and our backup closer were not available under normal circumstances. They had gone too many days in a row and our schedule has us playing 13 days in a row without a day off to end April. You don't burn your bullpen in April, no matter what the game. The incessant complaining about every single decision by fans who seem to believe they have more expertise than the GM, Manager and coaches is remarkable - and it has gotten progressively worse with all the newly minted WSI members since Augustish 2005.

Well said, although I am as guilty as anyone. I know when I first saw Aardsma out there yesterday, I liked it. When the HR went over the fence, I than naturally wanted to second guess. His decisions yesterday were fine, they just didn't work out. There is no guarantee Jenks would have gotten the save.

Pods4455
04-23-2007, 10:52 PM
i dont get it why wasnt bobby on for the save? (i didnt get to watch the game) did ozzie give him a day off? If not then tinkering with your closer spot when trying to get the first series sweep of the season against a division foe is unacceptable and the blame should fall squarely on ozzies shoulders if that is the case


I know for a fact its just because Ozzie wanted to give Bobby a day off.

A. Cavatica
04-23-2007, 10:54 PM
My question is why are so many pitchers "unavailable" so early in the year??? They don't bring themselves into games........

Because when your starter goes an average of six innings, that means there are an average of nine more outs to get, so you need nine pitchers to finish out the game -- plus a couple more warming up, just in case.

You might be able to finish up with only six or seven relievers if any two consecutive opposition batters hit from the same side of the plate, but that so seldom happens.

jabrch
04-23-2007, 11:03 PM
There's also a significant difference between knowing that your team won't win every game, and whinning and bitching about every single decision and handwringing about every single loss. I doubt there is anyone here without a "modicum of fact" to support their optimism. I doubt there is anyone thinking we will "win simply because we want them to". But the griping and bitching that goes on here and on sports radio about every little decision after a loss is assinine.

We have a GM and a coaching staff that is paid to be baseball experts. They are. People may not like the theory that our manager and GM support, but at the end of the day you can't really argue that it has no chance to succeed - since it does succeed, more often than it fails.

There is no reason to bitch about Sunday's loss. Our closer and our backup closer were not available under normal circumstances. They had gone too many days in a row and our schedule has us playing 13 days in a row without a day off to end April. You don't burn your bullpen in April, no matter what the game. The incessant complaining about every single decision by fans who seem to believe they have more expertise than the GM, Manager and coaches is remarkable - and it has gotten progressively worse with all the newly minted WSI members since Augustish 2005.

And way to stick it in my can tonight PK!!!!!