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View Full Version : McCarthy torched again


JB98
04-20-2007, 08:35 PM
Six runs in an inning plus tonight against Oakland. A's currently leading 10-0 in the fifth inning. :o:

Flight #24
04-20-2007, 08:57 PM
McCarthy: 10 ERA, 2 WHIP
Danks: 5 ERA, 1.5WHIP

To early to call, but McCarthy's getting shelled and he's supposed to be the "more ready" guy.....

DickAllen72
04-20-2007, 09:07 PM
McCarthy: 10 ERA, 2 WHIP
Danks: 5 ERA, 1.5WHIP

To early to call, but McCarthy's getting shelled and he's supposed to be the "more ready" guy.....
I remember the uproar when Kenny traded him for Danks and Masset! :cool:

anewman35
04-20-2007, 09:09 PM
I remember the uproar when Kenny traded him for Danks and Masset! :cool:

I think a lot of people (myself included) owe Kenny a big apology.

Jose.Contreras
04-20-2007, 09:14 PM
I liked the trade from day one. Kenny had earned my trust. If he made the deal....I felt good about it. Not to mention the fact that McCarthy seemed to give up a lead and a HR EVERY SINGLE RELIEF APPEARANCE. McCarthy will be a bust. He is soooooo hitable

santo=dorf
04-20-2007, 09:16 PM
McCarthy: 10 ERA, 2 WHIP
Danks: 5 ERA, 1.5WHIP

To early to call, but McCarthy's getting shelled and he's supposed to be the "more ready" guy.....
I'm running out of sig space. Will somebody please keep track of Danks' true ERA?

itsnotrequired
04-20-2007, 09:18 PM
I'm running out of sig space. Will somebody please keep track of Danks' true ERA?

What do you mean by "true" ERA? It is 5.06, period.

veeter
04-20-2007, 09:22 PM
His era shouldn't be that high. The D has let him down, especially tonite. He's clearly outpitched McCarthy by a mile.

itsnotrequired
04-20-2007, 09:25 PM
His era shouldn't be that high. The D has let him down, especially tonite. He's clearly outpitched McCarthy by a mile.

What it should and shouldn't be is irrelevant. ERA is earned runs divided by innings pitched and multiplied by nine. That's it.

To suggest otherwise is just shoota talk...

TomBradley72
04-20-2007, 09:31 PM
His era shouldn't be that high. The D has let him down, especially tonite. He's clearly outpitched McCarthy by a mile.

MacCarthy was vicitimized by the same thing against Tampa Bay.

DumpJerry
04-20-2007, 09:32 PM
Rowand would have pitched a perfect game tonight.:rolleyes:

HotelWhiteSox
04-20-2007, 09:54 PM
Nothing else counted tonight. Yankees/Red Sox, remember?

AJ Hellraiser
04-20-2007, 10:03 PM
way too early to tell but KW knows what he's doing and doesn't deserve all of us questioning and criticizing his moves

DumpJerry
04-20-2007, 10:04 PM
Nothing else counted tonight. Yankees/Red Sox, remember?
They've been playing this month? How are they doing? Is A-rod still struggling at the Plate like he did last time we saw him in the ALCS? They just don't seem to make any news anymore.

DrCrawdad
04-20-2007, 11:00 PM
Nothing else counted tonight. Yankees/Red Sox, remember?

In the wrap-up of the Yankees/RedSox game tonight the play-by-play guy said the Yankees comeback last night was historic as was the Red Sox comeback tonight.

Oh, the hyperbole!

On the thread topic...

McCarthy, OUCH!

That trade is looking quite good at the moment.

TheOldRoman
04-20-2007, 11:18 PM
McCarthy: 10 ERA, 2 WHIP
Danks: 5 ERA, 1.5WHIP

To early to call, but McCarthy's getting shelled and he's supposed to be the "more ready" guy.....
Wait, so McCarthy isn't the "polished workhorse" Phil Rogers claimed? :rolleyes:

FarWestChicago
04-21-2007, 07:14 AM
I'm running out of sig space. Will somebody please keep track of Danks' true ERA?It really must suck to constantly be pulling against the Sox and for other teams so you can proclaim yourself smarter than KW (though picking the whole of MLB against the Sox each year is a damn good bet; you have great odds at making yourself look brilliant). Let me clue you in to two things. There may be a moron or two here that actually believe you are an unmitigated baseball genius. But, they are morons after all. Second, it's a lot more fun to pull for Sox players and root against players from other teams. I know this may came as a shock to you, being so vastly intellectually superior to the rest of us. However, it's actually true.

SoxandtheCityTee
04-21-2007, 07:46 AM
It really must suck to constantly be pulling against the Sox and for other teams so you can proclaim yourself smarter than KW (though picking the whole of MLB against the Sox each year is a damn good bet; you have great odds at making yourself look brilliant). Let me clue you in to two things. There may be a moron or two here that actually believe you are an unmitigated baseball genius. But, they are morons after all. Second, it's a lot more fun to pull for Sox players and root against players from other teams. I know this may came as a shock to you, being so vastly intellectually superior to the rest of us. However, it's actually true.


I thought the poster meant that Danks is actually doing better than his ERA would indicate because he got screwed by Uribe's dropped pop-up last night, which led to three earned?

Tragg
04-21-2007, 07:47 AM
I think he's implying that Danks' ERA should be lower than it is.

Jon Daniels is having a tough time evaluating pitchers - he sent Chris Young to San Diego for not much and McCarthy is looking mighty stiff.

I'm not sure our braintrust has missed yet on a young pitcher.

soxinem1
04-21-2007, 07:51 AM
I am one of the few who like both of them, so I will not compare just to make KW look good and McCarthy look bad. But for all you comparison die-hards, remember:

Thome being miles better than Frank in the first half, then Frank by far exceeding him down the stretch.

I for one want Brandon to succeed, as I do believe he was dumped on by KW with his serviceable major-league pitcher remark. I believe when all is said and done, he will be a very good pitcher. He is a major league ready starter, he has made a few passes through the AL and if he keeps making the adjustments, he will be fine. Just because he gets bombed a couple time does not mean he is some scrub.

At the same token, I see somehing in Danks that leads me to believe he will also be an excellent starting pitcher. He looks a lot more composed than Johan Santana at the same age and if he handles himself well, he will be fine.

And while some posters are saying he was screwed (which he was) by Uribe's play, these things balance out, as there will be many, many times when great catches made, hard-hit DP's turned, and wind-killed HR balls kept in the yard. If a bonified major league pitcher needs to 'catch the breaks' or be lucky, he will not last long.

He also has the benefit of being unknown. He has pitched well enough to be 3-0, but lets see how he does in his second and third passes through the league. That will be the key to his season, as with any rookie, for those teams will have seen him once or twice by then.

They have both pitched a few games, and the returns are early. So if you have to compare them, wait until a better sample, like the ASB or end of the season before grading them.

itsnotrequired
04-21-2007, 07:56 AM
I thought the poster meant that Danks is actually doing better than his ERA would indicate because he got screwed by Uribe's dropped pop-up last night, which led to three earned?

I think he's implying that Danks' ERA should be lower than it is.

Jon Daniels is having a tough time evaluating pitchers - he sent Chris Young to San Diego for not much and McCarthy is looking mighty stiff.

I think we all know what he means but this reeks of shoota's "I'm not counting Crede's home runs today because the came in a meaningless game." A HR is a HR just like ERA is ERA. As far as I know, "true ERA" isn't even some type of saber stat.:redneck

FarWestChicago
04-21-2007, 08:31 AM
I thought the poster meant that Danks is actually doing better than his ERA would indicate because he got screwed by Uribe's dropped pop-up last night, which led to three earned?

I think he's implying that Danks' ERA should be lower than it is.

Jon Daniels is having a tough time evaluating pitchers - he sent Chris Young to San Diego for not much and McCarthy is looking mighty stiff.

I'm not sure our braintrust has missed yet on a young pitcher.You do realize this is a poster who hopes the Sox completely suck so he can claim he's a better GM than KW? If you start from that point, you will understand Dorf better. He's really pretty much just a troll. He doesn't give a **** about the Sox.

SoxandtheCityTee
04-21-2007, 08:33 AM
I think we all know what he means but this reeks of shoota's "I'm not counting Crede's home runs today because the came in a meaningless game." A HR is a HR just like ERA is ERA. As far as I know, "true ERA" isn't even some type of saber stat.:redneck


I get that. But his position seemed to be praising the Danks-McCarthy trade, not pulling against Danks and for McCarthy.

itsnotrequired
04-21-2007, 08:36 AM
I get that. But his position seemed to be praising the Danks-McCarthy trade, not pulling against Danks and for McCarthy.

I didn't suggest that. This is another example of people trying to "modify" stats to fit their liking. I don't think anyone on WSI feels that Danks is doing a bad job. A stat-head may look at his ERA and say he is struggling but those that watch the games know that the gaff resulted in a higher ERA and aren't worried about it. There is no need to make up some stat to make a particular player look better/worse.

SoxandtheCityTee
04-21-2007, 08:39 AM
[quote=itsnotrequired;1546001]I didn't suggest that. [quote]

No, you didn't. I've read West's response now.

FarWestChicago
04-21-2007, 08:39 AM
There is no need to make up some stat to make a particular player look better/worse.Some of our members disagree with you. :?:

Steelrod
04-21-2007, 08:46 AM
Season is less than 2 weeks old. I like the trade but will wait a while before declaring it a success.

itsnotrequired
04-21-2007, 08:49 AM
Some of our members disagree with you. :?:

No surprise there.:D:

The Immigrant
04-21-2007, 09:30 AM
I'm running out of sig space. Will somebody please keep track of Danks' true ERA?

His theoretical ERA is 3.31. His actual ERA is 5.06. **** happens.

Rowand soooo would have had that ball, however :wink:.

UserNameBlank
04-21-2007, 09:52 AM
I think a lot of people (myself included) owe Kenny a big apology.
Me too. I accepted it after reading some stuff on Danks and Masset, but at first I was kind of pissed about it. Again, this is why KW is the GM and WSI posters are not. Big kudos to KW and big angry faces at Juan Uribe and the Sox offense for messing up Danks' ERA and failing to get him a win in 3 terrific starts (for a rookie).

PaulDrake
04-21-2007, 10:13 AM
Season is less than 2 weeks old. I like the trade but will wait a while before declaring it a success. I agree. That being said, I give Danks a fighting chance to be a success. I like his attitude and approach. McCarthy on the other hand, I never liked, and will be very surprised if he pans out. His room service, medium speed, straight as an arrow "fastball" is no problem for even a Mendoza line hitter.

TomBradley72
04-21-2007, 10:18 AM
I like the early results from both trades:

Jon Danks 0-2, 5.06, three decent starts against division rivals
Nick Massett 1-0, 4.09, mostly solid outings
Gavin Floyd 1-1, 2.50 at Charlotte
Gio Gonzalez 3-0, 1.17 at Birmingham

Freddy Garcia 0-1,5.79
Brandon MacCarthy 1-3, 10.20

I know it's VERY early...but KW could have pulled it off...improving us for BOTH 2007 and for the long run, with all four of the WSox arms under their control until they are eligible for FA.

balke
04-21-2007, 11:05 AM
I like the early results from both trades:

Jon Danks 0-2, 5.06, three decent starts against division rivals
Nick Massett 1-0, 4.09, mostly solid outings
Gavin Floyd 1-1, 2.50 at Charlotte
Gio Gonzalez 3-0, 1.17 at Birmingham

Freddy Garcia 0-1,5.79
Brandon MacCarthy 1-3, 10.20

I know it's VERY early...but KW could have pulled it off...improving us for BOTH 2007 and for the long run, with all four of the WSox arms under their control until they are eligible for FA.



I'm gonna go out on a limb here to say Freddy Garcia is going to be the most successful pitcher out of the bunch. I think Kenny did what he had to do, but let's not get dumb to think Garcia isn't going to have a great year based on a couple early outings.

Floyd isn't going to work-out for the Sox at all I think, but it was worth a shot. Danks for Mccarthy looks amazing, as does the acquisition of Aardsma. Kenny will come off looking great when its all said and done (at least that's how it looks so far).


Mccarthy could still progress, but I don't know if Texas is the place you want to grow as a pitcher.

itsnotrequired
04-21-2007, 11:07 AM
His theoretical ERA is 3.31. His actual ERA is 5.06. **** happens.

Rowand soooo would have had that ball, however :wink:.

Why stop at 3.31? If AJ hadn't called that bad pitch against the Twins, his ERA would be 2.35.

I'm pretty sure I can explain his ERA all the way down to 0.00.:D:

UserNameBlank
04-21-2007, 11:09 AM
I'm gonna go out on a limb here to say Freddy Garcia is going to be the most successful pitcher out of the bunch. I think Kenny did what he had to do, but let's not get dumb to think Garcia isn't going to have a great year based on a couple early outings.

Floyd isn't going to work-out for the Sox at all I think, but it was worth a shot. Danks for Mccarthy looks amazing, as does the acquisition of Aardsma. Kenny will come off looking great when its all said and done (at least that's how it looks so far).


Mccarthy could still progress, but I don't know if Texas is the place you want to grow as a pitcher.
I would disagree with you on Freddy if he hadn't picked up that splitter last year. As long as his arm doesn't fall off, I think Freddy will have the best year out of any of them. I do think Danks will give him a run for his money though, and Danks at the league minimum in 2008 might be better than Freddy in 2008 with a fat contract.

TomBradley72
04-21-2007, 11:59 AM
I'm gonna go out on a limb here to say Freddy Garcia is going to be the most successful pitcher out of the bunch. I think Kenny did what he had to do, but let's not get dumb to think Garcia isn't going to have a great year based on a couple early outings.


It will be interesting to watch Freddy this year....last I heard he's being clocked in the mid-80's, if he can really make the conversion to emphasize the splitter...he may pull it off. I'm a little more optimistic about Floyd...I think he needs a few months at AAA to settle in to his new organization...but he could be the next Scott Ruffcorn.

santo=dorf
04-21-2007, 01:08 PM
I thought the poster meant that Danks is actually doing better than his ERA would indicate because he got screwed by Uribe's dropped pop-up last night, which led to three earned?
Yes, but people tend to make silly posts when they become obsessed with other posters.

I'm keeping track of stats that get lost during the course of a season. Some where down the line someone is going to ask "how many times did Darin move a runner over when we needed him to?" I will have an answer.

Somewhere down the line somebody will look at Danks' ERA and say "remember that game in Detroit where Uribe charged him with 3 ER, how many runs was John really responsible for?"

That's actually easier to calculate than looking up the number of times a player grounds out to first, how many times he move the runners over, and how many times the runners score as a result.

itsnotrequired
04-21-2007, 01:23 PM
Yes, but people tend to make silly posts when they become obsessed with other posters.

I'm keeping track of stats that get lost during the course of a season. Some where down the line someone is going to ask "how many times did Darin move a runner over when we needed him to?" I will have an answer.

Somewhere down the line somebody will look at Danks' ERA and say "remember that game in Detroit where Uribe charged him with 3 ER, how many runs was John really responsible for?"

That's actually easier to calculate than looking up the number of times a player grounds out to first, how many times he move the runners over, and how many times the runners score as a result.

I AM OBSESSED :happybday but people tend to make silly sigs when they are obsessed with a particular player.

bafiarocks03:Harris -> santo=dorf:Erstad

Danks is really responsible for all his earned runs by definition. Any type of "adjusted" ERA is just a fabricated stat based on whatever criteria the person creating it wants to use. Why stop at "should have been an error" type plays? Why not throw in day vs. night? Warm weather vs. cold? New ballparks vs. old ballparks? At what point does it become silly? I would say as soon as someone decides to tweak a stat that has been around forever by looking at one factor while ignoring others.

JermaineDye05
04-21-2007, 01:27 PM
Danks ERA should be lower and he should be 1-2, he threw the pitch to get out of the 5th last night but Juan just botched it or whoever called him off did.

santo=dorf
04-21-2007, 01:33 PM
I AM OBSESSED :happybday but people tend to make silly sigs when they are obsessed with a particular player.

bafiarocks03:Harris -> santo=dorf:Erstad

Danks is really responsible for all his earned runs by definition. Any type of "adjusted" ERA is just a fabricated stat based on whatever criteria the person creating it wants to use. Why stop at "should have been an error" type plays? Why not throw in day vs. night? Warm weather vs. cold? New ballparks vs. old ballparks? At what point does it become silly? I would say as soon as someone decides to tweak a stat that has been around forever by looking at one factor while ignoring others.
There are probably some Ranger fans defending the Danks/McCarthy trade like some Sox fans defending the Erstad signing by saying "Well, Danks is 0-2 with a 5.06 ERA, so it doesn't look like he's been that good either."

I formed an opinion about Erstad during the signing, got into long winded exchanges about his abilities and what he does for Sox, and I'm sticking with my opinion and showing the proof of how he sucks. Even I didn't expect him to be this bad, yet apparently it's not cool to discuss players who are struggling.

I'm sharing the stats and observations of Erstad's play so far. boo hoo :whiner: :violin:

itsnotrequired
04-21-2007, 01:37 PM
I'm sharing the stats and observations of Erstad's play so far. boo hoo :whiner: :violin:

It seems you are cherry-picking stats that help justify your original hypothesis while ignoring anything that may demonstrate otherwise.

Actually, there's nothing "seeming" about it...

ilsox7
04-21-2007, 01:41 PM
It seems you are cherry-picking stats that help justify your original hypothesis while ignoring anything that may demonstrate otherwise.

Actually, there's nothing "seeming" about it...

He ain't worth the effort to type, INR. From the screen name to the signature, it's obvious.

itsnotrequired
04-21-2007, 01:45 PM
He ain't worth the effort to type, INR. From the screen name to the signature, it's obvious.

Eh, both kids are napping and the wife is out shopping. I don't have anything better to do.:tongue:

ilsox7
04-21-2007, 01:49 PM
Eh, both kids are napping and the wife is out shopping. I don't have anything better to do.:tongue:

Let's go grab a beer. :D:

CLR01
04-21-2007, 01:50 PM
Eh, both kids are napping and the wife is out shopping. I don't have anything better to do.:tongue:

You could do another painting of Erstad arm wrestling Zeus atop a mountain. :dunno:

itsnotrequired
04-21-2007, 01:51 PM
Let's go grab a beer. :D:

My oldest is a touch under 20 months. He should be able to take care of himself so I don't foresee my wife having a problem if I take off for alcohol.

:redneck

ilsox7
04-21-2007, 01:54 PM
My oldest is a touch under 20 months. He should be able to take care of himself so I don't foresee my wife having a problem if I take off for alcohol.

:redneck

Let me know. I'm all for it after this game! :D:

Chips
04-21-2007, 01:57 PM
My oldest is a touch under 20 months. He should be able to take care of himself so I don't foresee my wife having a problem if I take off for alcohol.

:redneck

Let me know. I'm all for it after this game! :D:

Count me in.

MISoxfan
04-21-2007, 04:31 PM
I'm running out of sig space. Will somebody please keep track of Danks' true ERA?

So you'd rather devote your sig space to point out how poorly a player you don't like is doing than use it to promote how well a player you do like is doing.

INSox56
04-21-2007, 05:02 PM
McCarthy: 10 ERA, 2 WHIP
Danks: 5 ERA, 1.5WHIP

To early to call, but McCarthy's getting shelled and he's supposed to be the "more ready" guy.....
Meh, that ERA is higher than it actually should be for Danks. He got charged with all of Juan's error runs yesterday

itsnotrequired
04-21-2007, 05:37 PM
Meh, that ERA is higher than it actually should be for Danks. He got charged with all of Juan's error runs yesterday

Juan did not put those men on base in the first place. He also didn't give up the hit after his "error".

FarWestChicago
04-21-2007, 11:47 PM
It seems you are cherry-picking stats that help justify your original hypothesis while ignoring anything that may demonstrate otherwise.

Actually, there's nothing "seeming" about it...

He ain't worth the effort to type, INR. From the screen name to the signature, it's obvious.Dorf is a troll. He pretends to be a Sox fan to "hide" his trolling. Who knows what team he really follows. Who cares what team he really follows? If he keeps trolling, somebody will deal with him.

maurice
04-23-2007, 04:59 PM
Don't forget to add 1.00 to Garcia's ERA for going from the AL to the NL. It's fun getting to face pitchers 3 times a game instead of Travis Hafner, David Ortiz, Frank Thomas, Jim Thome, etc.

I think a lot of people (myself included) owe Kenny a big apology.

Get in line behind Phil Rogers, who predicted (repeatedly) that the Sox would really, really miss McCarthy and Garcia this year.

DickAllen72
04-28-2007, 10:51 AM
From Phil Rogers:

McCarthy, who is 1-3 with a 9.00 ERA, starts Sunday at Toronto after being skipped his last trip around the Rangers' rotation. Coach Mark Connor said McCarthy "gets a little jumpy" at times, affecting his pitching. His fastball has been in the high 80s rather than the low 90s, and he has been working to slow down and smooth out his delivery. http://http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-070428rogers,1,5348909.column?page=2&coll=cs-home-headlines

TDog
04-28-2007, 11:13 AM
From Phil Rogers:

McCarthy, who is 1-3 with a 9.00 ERA, starts Sunday at Toronto after being skipped his last trip around the Rangers' rotation. Coach Mark Connor said McCarthy "gets a little jumpy" at times, affecting his pitching. His fastball has been in the high 80s rather than the low 90s, and he has been working to slow down and smooth out his delivery. http://http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-070428rogers,1,5348909.column?page=2&coll=cs-home-headlines (http://http//chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-070428rogers,1,5348909.column?page=2&coll=cs-home-headlines)

Good thing he feels comfortable in the clubhouse.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-28-2007, 01:27 PM
Good thing he feels comfortable in the clubhouse.

He's a proven workhorse. Don't they just naturally get jumpy? Somebody ought to ask Phil.

We hang on every word he writes.

:cool:

jabrch
04-28-2007, 02:38 PM
I'm gonna go out on a limb here to say Freddy Garcia is going to be the most successful pitcher out of the bunch.

He only has this season to count as far as evaluating this trade - cuz he's a FA afterwards. And he costs nearly $10mm more than any of those other players.