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View Full Version : *OFFICIAL* Let's Win The Next Two Games 4/17/07 Post Game Thread


MCHSoxFan
04-17-2007, 09:40 PM
We need those next two wins. I thought we had the game for us after Thome hit a home run. Did you see his bat go flying into the crowd and hit that guy in the rib? That sucks. So does losing. :angry: :angry: :angry: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:

Viva Medias B's
04-17-2007, 09:40 PM
Boys and girls, we flat out stunk tonight.

soxfan123
04-17-2007, 09:41 PM
I understand that our schedule is brutal, but we just did not look very enthused tonight.

WizardsofOzzie
04-17-2007, 09:41 PM
Boys and girls, we flat out stunk tonight.
Understatement of the year

Cuck_The_Fubs
04-17-2007, 09:42 PM
This team needs to wake up and smell the coffee. The only problem is, is that they are in the toughest division in baseball. I don't think they realize that....

ND_Sox_Fan
04-17-2007, 09:42 PM
As I said in the Game Day thread - I expect that the only thing that could get this team's attention would be a brawl with Padilla on Thursday.

krohnjw
04-17-2007, 09:42 PM
Bleh........

Navarro's Talent
04-17-2007, 09:42 PM
I'm really happy I didn't go to this game. Shammy hits a homer on an 0-2 count? :mad:

whitesoxfan
04-17-2007, 09:42 PM
Looking like the same crap I saw in the final month of the 2006 season.

There needs to be a shakeup. Walker needs his ass shipped out of Chicago, ASAP.

cheeses_h_rice
04-17-2007, 09:44 PM
Buffet table time, Kenny.

We ****ing suck.

santo=dorf
04-17-2007, 09:44 PM
So glad Erstad is proving me wrong!

I wonder if Hawk still thinks AJ is the best game caller in the AL and would take Crede over A-Rod.

HartmanSox
04-17-2007, 09:44 PM
There's been practically no improvement over the past week either. Not good.

AJ Hellraiser
04-17-2007, 09:45 PM
Looking like the same crap I saw in the final month of the 2006 season.

There needs to be a shakeup. Walker needs his ass shipped out of Chicago, ASAP.

Couldn't agree more.. and to whomever reminded me the Houston Astros claimed the 2005 wild card after starting 15 below .500.. look at the teams they came back against.. Cubs, Pirates, Brewers, Reds.. each of their seasons were over and they were playing minorleaguers..

I don't see the SOX making up that kind of ground within the AL Central

sox1970
04-17-2007, 09:45 PM
Buffet table time, Kenny.

We ****ing suck.

Fungo bat to the plasma TV.

WhiteSox1983
04-17-2007, 09:45 PM
ehhh.... this is some bummy style play.

JB98
04-17-2007, 09:45 PM
I'm really happy I didn't go to this game. Shammy hits a homer on an 0-2 count? :mad:

Yeah, that was the epitome of crap right there.

We have scored one run or fewer in five of our last eight games now. We have scored only 39 runs in 12 games overall. Thome and AJ had better ABs tonight. Other than that, you can just throw everybody else in Lake Michigan. It's BAD. A lot of weak swings. A lot of weak outs. There weren't many balls hit hard tonight.

I'd be more frustrated if we had lost 2-1. At 8-1, at least we didn't waste another good pitching performance. It's a sad commentary when Boone Logan is the only pitcher who doesn't get scored upon.

Just brutal tonight, guys. ****ing brutal.

Tragg
04-17-2007, 09:46 PM
Erstad is now our lead-off hitter. Nice spot for someone whose sole skill seems to be "advancing runners".
It's like the twilight zone.

rdwj
04-17-2007, 09:47 PM
You know - if out players just tried to hit more homers, I think we could turn this thing around

DickAllen72
04-17-2007, 09:47 PM
Sometimes you just have to shake your head and laugh. This is one of those times.

whitesoxfan
04-17-2007, 09:48 PM
Erstad is now our lead-off hitter. Nice spot for someone whose sole skill seems to be "advancing runners".
It's like the twilight zone.

If we're going to have the Ozuna-Mack experiment in LF, I want to see whoever is playing between them as the leadoff man.

TheOldRoman
04-17-2007, 09:48 PM
I understand that our schedule is brutal, but we just did not look very enthused tonight.
No, that is ****ing bull****. I am pissed that Hawk keeps talking about how tough it is.
We played the Indians 6 times - won 2, handed away three, and got crushed once.
We played the Twins twice, and would have swept if the offense could have done jack **** against Santana on an off day.
Then Bobby blew a save against the As, giving us two of three. But he should have never been in that situation because the offense should have put up 6 runs on the garabge that faced us that night.
Now we are facing the Rangers. Yes, the ****ing Rangers. They are not a good team by any stretch of the imagination.

This team should have won a lot more games than it has. They are beating themselves and giving away games. Tough schedule my ass. There is no reason the Sox shouldn't have 9 or 10 wins so far.

Jurr
04-17-2007, 09:48 PM
It's hard to be a good, consistent offense when every player is trying to swing out of his shoes. Hitting is contagious. Over-swinging is contagious, as well. It's been the malady of choice for this offense for two years now.

When the Sox were good, they'd vary up the approach to rattle opposing pitchers. Get him on, get him over, and get him in. The Sox would get leads, not allowing the other team's starter to settle in. Meanwhile, the Sox pitchers, with leads, would have a jolt of confidence to settle in and dominate.

We haven't seen such in two years. This team tries to catch lightning in a bottle with homers. Period. When a guy gets on, nobody tries to cut down a swing to get the runner moved over. Ozzie won't hit and run because he wants his 3 run homer.

Yes, this team is going to get better at the plate. When they do, balls are going to sail out of the park. Then, at a moment's notice, the all-or-nothing ball will show its dark side, when no-name pitchers are cruising through innings because the hitters are fixated on power production.

Remember when the Sox roster was full of guys that played for one another and not a stat sheet? Remember when they embraced a concept of fundamental baseball? Gone.

Players are looking to get the power numbers going to get a big contract. It's a mindset that's contagious, and it's working its way up and down the lineup. Something has to change or it's going to be severly depressing season.

JB98
04-17-2007, 09:51 PM
It's hard to be a good, consistent offense when every player is trying to swing out of his shoes. Hitting is contagious. Over-swinging is contagious, as well. It's been the malady of choice for this offense for two years now.

When the Sox were good, they'd vary up the approach to rattle opposing pitchers. Get him on, get him over, and get him in. The Sox would get leads, not allowing the other team's starter to settle in. Meanwhile, the Sox pitchers, with leads, would have a jolt of confidence to settle in and dominate.

We haven't seen such in two years. This team tries to catch lightning in a bottle with homers. Period. When a guy gets on, nobody tries to cut down a swing to get the runner moved over. Ozzie won't hit and run because he wants his 3 run homer.

Yes, this team is going to get better at the plate. When they do, balls are going to sail out of the park. Then, at a moment's notice, the all-or-nothing ball will show its dark side, when no-name pitchers are cruising through innings because the hitters are fixated on power production.

Remember when the Sox roster was full of guys that played for one another and not a stat sheet? Remember when they embraced a concept of fundamental baseball? Gone.

Players are looking to get the power numbers going to get a big contract. It's a mindset that's contagious, and it's working its way up and down the lineup. Something has to change or it's going to be severly depressing season.

We had the pop-ups tonight, without a doubt. Lots of warning-track power. Guys need to start staying on top of the ball and hitting line drives.

TheOldRoman
04-17-2007, 09:52 PM
Couldn't agree more.. and to whomever reminded me the Houston Astros claimed the 2005 wild card after starting 15 below .500.. look at the teams they came back against.. Cubs, Pirates, Brewers, Reds.. each of their seasons were over and they were playing minorleaguers..

I don't see the SOX making up that kind of ground within the AL Central
Ok, now look at how terrible the Sox looked the second half of 06 - about as bad as now. Now remember how the "great" Tigers and "mighty" Twins passed us. We gave the ****ing division away. If this team gets its head out of its ass, it will cruise to the division title. We crapped our way to 90 wins last year. As bad as we were at the end, we were still right there. There is no reason the Sox can't or won't win the division after a bad start.

PeoriaSoxFan
04-17-2007, 09:52 PM
Looking like the same crap I saw in the final month of the 2006 season.

There needs to be a shakeup. Walker needs his ass shipped out of Chicago, ASAP.


I am also questioning Walker lately. In the past, that was our first step, fire the batting coach. Something needs to be done. It is early, but pathetic.

hi im skot
04-17-2007, 09:52 PM
Sometimes you just have to shake your head and laugh. This is one of those times.

Agreed.

Get 'em tomorrow. It's too early to be on the ledge, folks.

DickAllen72
04-17-2007, 09:52 PM
Remember when the Sox roster was full of guys that played for one another and not a stat sheet? Remember when they embraced a concept of fundamental baseball?

I remember it fondly. Memories.....

PaleHoseGeorge
04-17-2007, 09:52 PM
Whenever I need a massive dose of rational thoughts to help me make sense of things, I come visit the Postgame Thread... especially if the Sox lose.

:wink:

Jurr
04-17-2007, 09:53 PM
We had the pop-ups tonight, without a doubt. Lots of warning-track power. Guys need to start staying on top of the ball and hitting line drives.
Yeah, if they'd stop cheating so much to pull pitches and just see the ball, settling for singles, the power would naturally come.

Everybody wants to show off, and they're flailing at everything close for a potential homer. There's no better way to fall into a DEEP slump.

santo=dorf
04-17-2007, 09:54 PM
It's hard to be a good, consistent offense when every player is trying to swing out of his shoes. Hitting is contagious. Over-swinging is contagious, as well. It's been the malady of choice for this offense for two years now.

When the Sox were good, they'd vary up the approach to rattle opposing pitchers. Get him on, get him over, and get him in. The Sox would get leads, not allowing the other team's starter to settle in. Meanwhile, the Sox pitchers, with leads, would have a jolt of confidence to settle in and dominate.

We haven't seen such in two years. This team tries to catch lightning in a bottle with homers. Period. When a guy gets on, nobody tries to cut down a swing to get the runner moved over. Ozzie won't hit and run because he wants his 3 run homer.

Yes, this team is going to get better at the plate. When they do, balls are going to sail out of the park. Then, at a moment's notice, the all-or-nothing ball will show its dark side, when no-name pitchers are cruising through innings because the hitters are fixated on power production.

Remember when the Sox roster was full of guys that played for one another and not a stat sheet? Remember when they embraced a concept of fundamental baseball? Gone.

Players are looking to get the power numbers going to get a big contract. It's a mindset that's contagious, and it's working its way up and down the lineup. Something has to change or it's going to be severly depressing season.
How many three run homers did the Rangers hit tonight? They seemed to do OK.

My post got eaten up in the game thread, but it's ridiculous to blame the offense from last year. You don't need bunting and other late inning scrappy heroics when you get big leads in the early innings. I also helps when your team pitches like the 2005 Sox and the not the 2006 version.

The Erstad signing is a joke. If KW can put aside his personal bias and not worry about saving face, I predict grinderstad will follow the route of Politte, Shingo, Mike Jackson, and Rick White.

Joe Crede is still a joke at the plate and should have been moved when value was at an all-time high. Garland looks about normally for his career, which is OK, but certainly not ace material.

This team needs a shakeup or a verbal ass chewing.

AJ Hellraiser
04-17-2007, 09:55 PM
Ok, now look at how terrible the Sox looked the second half of 06 - about as bad as now. Now remember how the "great" Tigers and "mighty" Twins passed us. We gave the ****ing division away. If this team gets its head out of its ass, it will cruise to the division title. We crapped our way to 90 wins last year. As bad as we were at the end, we were still right there. There is no reason the Sox can't or won't win the division after a bad start.

I completely agree with you... we handed the division away last year... by doing the same things we are doing this season... it's like they didn't learn.. KW didn't make the needed roster changes besides adding bullpen help.. OZZIE isn't pushing the right buttons or mixing it up at all...

I never said the talent isn't there... clearly, on paper, this team should have won the World Series last year and be a playoff team this season... But it's gotta turn around.. FAST

DickAllen72
04-17-2007, 09:56 PM
Did I just hear Ozzie say "Sammy better watch out because he will get hit"???

I'm sure I heard wrong because he was just talking about how he still respects Sammy but he would walk Texiera any day to get to Sammy with his "best righty" on the mound. But then it sounded like he said Sammy better be ready 'cause he will get hit. :?:

Jurr
04-17-2007, 09:56 PM
Whenever I need a massive dose of rational thoughts to help me make sense of things, I come visit the Postgame Thread... especially if the Sox lose.

:wink:
George...tell me one thing I wrote that isn't totally rational or the truth.

I'm not saying the Sox are doomed. I'm saying that the approach that the offense has been taking has been inherently flawed.

If it's going to get better, it has to start with the team not trying to be dead pull hitters and actually trying see the ball. Hit it where it's pitched, dammit!

Tragg
04-17-2007, 09:56 PM
If we're going to have the Ozuna-Mack experiment in LF, I want to see whoever is playing between them as the leadoff man.
That's fine with me...it would be even better if we'd expirement in center. But I agree, Ozuna or Mack should bat leadoff.

Ozzie's inconsistency in his treatment of Anderson (throw him under the bus) v Erstad (won't think of taking him out of the lineup and now promotes him to leadoff) is just bizarre

On another comment, Hawk shouldn't make exuses - is that his job? As far as the schedule being brutal, are we a playoff team or not? You have to beat good teams to go to the playoffs. Losing record won't get us there.

TheOldRoman
04-17-2007, 09:57 PM
I sure hope Kenny told Greg Walker to start preparing his resume tonight. I don't think we are that lucky. We are playing Walkerball at its finest.

CLR01
04-17-2007, 09:57 PM
Did they win? Was it close?

infohawk
04-17-2007, 09:58 PM
We had the pop-ups tonight, without a doubt. Lots of warning-track power. Guys need to start staying on top of the ball and hitting line drives.
I didn't see the game because it was on WCIU.:angry: Did the Sox fly out at the warning track an inordinate number of times? I only ask because they have done that a lot over the first couple weeks of the season. We can only hope that as the weather heats up those balls will have a little more carry to them. Still, doesn't look like Texas had any trouble smackin' the ball out of the park.

sox1970
04-17-2007, 09:58 PM
This team is 39-50 over the last 89 regular season games. I'll give them another 31 games to turn it around. They suck until further notice.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-17-2007, 09:58 PM
George...tell me one thing I wrote that isn't totally rational or the truth.

Are you serious? I wasn't talking about you.

Making fun of irrational posts in the post-game thread is the very definition of a "target rich" environment.

:wink:

PeoriaSoxFan
04-17-2007, 09:58 PM
This team should have won a lot more games than it has. They are beating themselves and giving away games. Tough schedule my ass. There is no reason the Sox shouldn't have 9 or 10 wins so far.

I like what your saying and your attitude, but as far as 9 or 10 wins, they have barely scored 9 or 10 runs. I believe they have 39 runs now in 12 games.

The poster about the HR attitude is also right on. If we don't score HRs, we just don't score. I would like to see them win a game, score more than 5 runs, and have no HRs for the game. Of course, right now, I will just settle for a win.

Tragg
04-17-2007, 09:58 PM
Ok, now look at how terrible the Sox looked the second half of 06 - about as bad as now. Now remember how the "great" Tigers and "mighty" Twins passed us. We gave the ****ing division away. If this team gets its head out of its ass, it will cruise to the division title. We crapped our way to 90 wins last year. As bad as we were at the end, we were still right there. There is no reason the Sox can't or won't win the division after a bad start.
We played 10 games below .500 the 2nd half of last year and we're playing below .500 this year. It's time we start turning that around if we can walk to this division.

Good idea - change hitting coaches. Can't hurt.

Jurr
04-17-2007, 09:59 PM
How many three run homers did the Rangers hit tonight? They seemed to do OK.

My post got eaten up in the game thread, but it's ridiculous to blame the offense from last year. You don't need bunting and other late inning scrappy heroics when you get big leads in the early innings. I also helps when your team pitches like the 2005 Sox and the not the 2006 version.

The Erstad signing is a joke. If KW can put aside his personal bias and not worry about saving face, I predict grinderstad will follow the route of Politte, Shingo, Mike Jackson, and Rick White.

Joe Crede is still a joke at the plate and should have been moved when value was at an all-time high. Garland looks about normally for his career, which is OK, but certainly not ace material.

This team needs a shakeup or a verbal ass chewing.
The Rangers looked okay tonight, because their big ball tactics worked. How far has that gotten them in the past? They have had the same offensive approach as the Sox for years, save one. The Rangers will live and die by that approach all year, to their demise.

Dan Mega
04-17-2007, 09:59 PM
Joe Crede is still a joke at the plate and should have been moved when value was at an all-time high.

Lets not go crazy now....:rolleyes:

They'll rebound from it. This team is too talented. Its still early. Jump off the ledge if you must...I'll be watching them in the playoffs at the end of this season.

Jurr
04-17-2007, 10:00 PM
Are you serious? I wasn't talking about you.

Making fun of irrational posts in the post-game thread is the very definition of a "target rich" environment.

:wink:
Touche.

JB98
04-17-2007, 10:00 PM
I didn't see the game because it was on WCIU.:angry: Did the Sox fly out at the warning track an inordinate number of times? I only ask because they have done that a lot over the first couple weeks of the season. We can only hope that as the weather heats up those balls will have a little more carry to them. Still, doesn't look like Texas had any trouble smackin' the ball out of the park.

There were a couple of long fly balls, but mostly a whole lot of pop-ups. Really we didn't have too many hard-hit balls.

infohawk
04-17-2007, 10:00 PM
If it's going to get better, it has to start with the team not trying to be dead pull hitters and actually trying see the ball. Hit it where it's pitched, dammit!
Man, I totally agree with the above statement. I would absolutely love to see some inside-out swings and line drives the other way. The Sox could still very well be close to the top of the League in runs scored in the end, but when they're scuffling they need to make adjustments.

ND_Sox_Fan
04-17-2007, 10:01 PM
I didn't see the game because it was on WCIU.:angry: Did the Sox fly out at the warning track an inordinate number of times? I only ask because they have done that a lot over the first couple weeks of the season. We can only hope that as the weather heats up those balls will have a little more carry to them. Still, doesn't look like Texas had any trouble smackin' the ball out of the park.

No, they rarely got their pop-ups past the infielders tonight.

Jose.Contreras
04-17-2007, 10:01 PM
Obviously, we have had a poor start to the season. But we have an 150 games left. I don't know how we'll end up but we all need to relax. I don't think any major shakeups are needed at this point. I remain positive in thinking that we WILL get into a groove. It's just a gut feeling. We're still gonna be an that playoff hunt all the way until the end of the season. The White Sox are fine. I guess winning the the World Series has eased me tremendously as a baseball fan. We'll be fine. I'm not even remotely worried juuuust yet.

chisoxwschamps05
04-17-2007, 10:01 PM
There were a couple of long fly balls, but mostly a whole lot of pop-ups. Really we didn't have too many hard-hit balls.
We wouldn't have stopped popping it up even if they put it on a tee for us.

Jurr
04-17-2007, 10:01 PM
Lets not go crazy now....:rolleyes:

They'll rebound from it. This team is too talented. Its still early. Jump off the ledge if you must...I'll be watching them in the playoffs at the end of this season.
Love your enthusiasm. If they don't change their approach, you won't be watching them in the playoffs. Hopefully a light will come on and they'll start to become less obsessed with homers and more obsessed with winning.

PeoriaSoxFan
04-17-2007, 10:02 PM
I didn't see the game because it was on WCIU.:angry: Did the Sox fly out at the warning track an inordinate number of times? I only ask because they have done that a lot over the first couple weeks of the season. We can only hope that as the weather heats up those balls will have a little more carry to them. Still, doesn't look like Texas had any trouble smackin' the ball out of the park.

WCIU blows. What is the point of having games over there? Does Reinsdorf own part of it? There was nothing else on Comcast tonight. I am in downstate IL and would like to see all of the games. Unfortunately, there aren't many Sox fans down here, due to the Flubs and Cards. And for another matter, get the Cubs off of Comcast and keep them on WGN. Lets have one network for each team.

oeo
04-17-2007, 10:03 PM
Love your enthusiasm. If they don't change their approach, you won't be watching them in the playoffs. Hopefully a light will come on and they'll start to become less obsessed with homers and more obsessed with winning.

Yeah, since the entire lineup will hit under .225 the whole year. :rolleyes:

You've got to be kidding me...take a breather, you're freaking out. And stop complaining about Thome...he's our offense right now. Whether you like it or not, he's homerun or nothing; and I have no problem with that. If you want to complain about the other eight guys, go right ahead, but Thome is here to hit homeruns.

And I wonder every year what Greg Walker does. He seems like a nice guy, but when we cannot hit any lefties, we're terrible against mediocre pitchers, and we go into these prolonged slumps...there's a problem. I said it last year, and got crap for it, but Walker needs to go.

Scottiehaswheels
04-17-2007, 10:03 PM
eh.. its early but one of the things that dissappointed me tonight is we get 2 walks in the first inning and then come the second inning all the guys are first pitch swinging... take a few pitches and see if the guy has anything... could have potentially gotten Tejeda out of the game early the way he started but our offense kept him in the game much longer than he should have been...

russ99
04-17-2007, 10:03 PM
Hopefully today was rock bottom.

Is it too early for Ozzie to declare tomorrow as the "second opening day"?

CLR01
04-17-2007, 10:04 PM
And for another matter, get the Cubs off of Comcast and keep them on WGN. Lets have one network for each team.

I nominate that worst idea ever.

Jurr
04-17-2007, 10:05 PM
Man, I totally agree with the above statement. I would absolutely love to see some inside-out swings and line drives the other way. The Sox could still very well be close to the top of the League in runs scored in the end, but when they're scuffling they need to make adjustments.
They need to watch film on Mauer. The guy doesn't hit bombs. Instead, he keeps a level approach to hitting. Homers are the result of a solid swing on a hittable pitch. They shouldn't be forced. If the ball isn't down the pipe, it should be swung at for contact.

2 of the 5 "tools" are hitting for average and hitting for power. The Sox need to focus on the former and get locked in before the latter becomes an area of interest.

mshake10
04-17-2007, 10:05 PM
WCIU blows. What is the point of having games over there? Does Reinsdorf own part of it? There was nothing else on Comcast tonight. I am in downstate IL and would like to see all of the games. Unfortunately, there aren't many Sox fans down here, due to the Flubs and Cards. And for another matter, get the Cubs off of Comcast and keep them on WGN. Lets have one network for each team.
150+ Cubs games on Superstation WGN? Sounds good. :D:

BoysMom3
04-17-2007, 10:06 PM
Hey everyone - I hope you all don't mind me stating this in this thread, but I figured the most amount of people would be here. I've been using my husband's username, DrGozzie, and I'm giving it back to him starting now. I've got my own name now, which is BoysMom3. So it's still me, new name, and any future posts from DrGozzie would be from my husband, not me.

Thanks!

I missed the game tonight because I wasn't home, and I don't know if it was even on tv but I heard the score on the radio in the 8th. Did BA ever get any playing time at all?

IndianWhiteSox
04-17-2007, 10:06 PM
This team is 39-50 over the last 89 regular season games. I'll give them another 31 games to turn it around. They suck until further notice.

:o:

PeoriaSoxFan
04-17-2007, 10:07 PM
I nominate that worst idea ever.
If you enjoy watching the Cubs on Comcast, then go ahead and vote for it. I remember (yes, I am old), when the Cubs were only on WGN. Anyway, just get rid of WCIU games.

JB98
04-17-2007, 10:08 PM
Hey everyone - I hope you all don't mind me stating this in this thread, but I figured the most amount of people would be here. I've been using my husband's username, DrGozzie, and I'm giving it back to him starting now. I've got my own name now, which is BoysMom3. So it's still me, new name, and any future posts from DrGozzie would be from my husband, not me.

Thanks!

I missed the game tonight because I wasn't home, and I don't know if it was even on tv but I heard the score on the radio in the 8th. Did BA ever get any playing time at all?

Yes, he pinch-hit for Mackowiak in the ninth and hit a check-swing groundout.

ND_Sox_Fan
04-17-2007, 10:08 PM
I missed the game tonight because I wasn't home, and I don't know if it was even on tv but I heard the score on the radio in the 8th. Did BA ever get any playing time at all?

Yes, he pinch hit and ended the game on a check-swing grounder to short.

russ99
04-17-2007, 10:08 PM
I nominate that worst idea ever.

I second that!

And as for canning Greg Walker right now, that's probably a bad idea. As much as I wanted him fired last August/September, it would send a bad signal to the team right now. They need to all pull together.

I'd give him a week or two, and if there's still no results, there might need to be a change. Firing him now would be a knee-jerk reaction by Kenny and those rarely work out in baseball.

oeo
04-17-2007, 10:08 PM
If you enjoy watching the Cubs on Comcast, then go ahead and vote for it. I remember (yes, I am old), when the Cubs were only on WGN. Anyway, just get rid of WCIU games.

Why does it matter? :?:

Jurr
04-17-2007, 10:09 PM
Yeah, since the entire lineup will hit under .225 the whole year. :rolleyes:

You've got to be kidding me...take a breather, you're freaking out. And stop complaining about Thome...he's our offense right now. Whether you like it or not, he's homerun or nothing; and I have no problem with that. If you want to complain about the other eight guys, go right ahead, but Thome is here to hit homeruns.
I'm just sore for one reason. I watched the Sox live and die by the homer, and I was absolutely thrilled when they changed that approach for one season. It's so hard to slug your way to a title, and our boys proved that.

The 2001-2004 Sox had to be the most frustrating baseball teams ever. They'd kill the ball for a game and then fizzle out for two. Yeah, they won a number of games, but they were lost when the homers would stop. We all saw it and we hated watching the Twins dink and dunk their way right by us.

Every red flag in the book is up for me right now, because I'm seeing that old approach infiltrate this ballclub, and it's scary. We know how this story ends.

Law11
04-17-2007, 10:09 PM
The guys will be fine even if they have a rough rest of April. No one has busted out of the gate in the division. It would be nice to just catch a few key hits to get something rolling.

oeo
04-17-2007, 10:11 PM
I'm just sore for one reason. I watched the Sox live and die by the homer, and I was absolutely thrilled when they changed that approach for one season. It's so hard to slug your way to a title, and our boys proved that.

The 2001-2004 Sox had to be the most frustrating baseball teams ever. They'd kill the ball for a game and then fizzle out for two. Yeah, they won a number of games, but they were lost when the homers would stop. We all saw it and we hated watching the Twins dink and dunk their way right by us.

Every red flag in the book is up for me right now, because I'm seeing that old approach infiltrate this ballclub, and it's scary. We know how this story ends.

Go ahead and complain about the other eight guys, like I said. Don't complain about Thome, though, when he's 1)the only one worth anything right now and 2)here to hit homeruns.

Jurr
04-17-2007, 10:12 PM
The guys will be fine even if they have a rough rest of April. No one has busted out of the gate in the division. It would be nice to just catch a few key hits to get something rolling.
Yup. Those will come if the players stop opening up too quick on every pitch, with the sole intention of spraying seats. Off speed pitches will turn into rally-starting bleeders up the middle. Two seamers away will turn into line drives down the base lines and not popouts to foul territory. The line will start moving. That's how this team will get right.

CLR01
04-17-2007, 10:13 PM
If you enjoy watching the Cubs on Comcast, then go ahead and vote for it. I remember (yes, I am old), when the Cubs were only on WGN. Anyway, just get rid of WCIU games.

I bought my TV after they invented multiple channels and the remote so I can flip the channel when the Cubs are on Comcast. Plus, I, along with thousands of out of area Sox fans, enjoy being able to watch the Sox without paying $100+ a year.

Jurr
04-17-2007, 10:14 PM
Go ahead and complain about the other eight guys, like I said. Don't complain about Thome, though, when he's 1)the only one worth anything right now and 2)here to hit homeruns.
Even "Thomer" can cut down his swing and move some runners over when he's down in the count. It's a team approach.

jdm2662
04-17-2007, 10:14 PM
I'm just sore for one reason. I watched the Sox live and die by the homer, and I was absolutely thrilled when they changed that approach for one season. It's so hard to slug your way to a title, and our boys proved that.

The 2001-2004 Sox had to be the most frustrating baseball teams ever. They'd kill the ball for a game and then fizzle out for two. Yeah, they won a number of games, but they were lost when the homers would stop. We all saw it and we hated watching the Twins dink and dunk their way right by us.

Every red flag in the book is up for me right now, because I'm seeing that old approach infiltrate this ballclub, and it's scary. We know how this story ends.

Pretty much what you've said is what is my thoughts. Only AJ and Thome made any adjustments today. There were some great pitches to hit, and the result were many lazy pop-ups. No adjustments were made at all. I'm certainly not saying the season over, but if the hitters won't/can't make such adjustments, it will be a long season.

As for the people how mentioned Hawk and his excuses, are you really surprised? He does this all the time. It's sometimes annoying and other times quite pathetic. I can almost take him when the team does good, but when it does bad, I'm usually inclined to watch on gameday...

Jerko
04-17-2007, 10:15 PM
I really don't care about the schedule (Oak and Tex are under 500 btw) or the division we're in, sooner or later that **** evens out. What bugs the **** out of me is that this team, a season and 2 weeks removed from the World Series, has adopted a style of play that I despise. They are, IMO, playing scared ****less.... We're either worrying about "facing Sabathia and Santana 3 times already", or "pitchers we've never seen"; we use 5 pitchers a game when the first 2 guys give up one or 2 hits because god forbid Grady Sizemore face a righty; the constant water-torture shifts in the lineup based on who we're facing, well, it's brutal. Do we really need to switch PK and Thome? AJ and Uribe??? How bout some consistency??? That might be the first step to reviving your offense. Put your best guys out there and DARE the other ****in team to beat you. Don't play scared. Right now IMO the Sox are playing baseball like a team with no talent plays football. Run run run punt, run the clock out and hope the other team doesn't score. It's like they're not attacking. Sox fans, I give you the "Prevent Offense"... This team needs some FIRE, not whining about the cold and worrying who the **** we're facing. Tampa beat Santana AND Nathan last week; we're afraid of Gaudin and Tejeda..... Time to step it up. I'm not afraid of ANY team in this division except us.

oeo
04-17-2007, 10:15 PM
I second that!

And as for canning Greg Walker right now, that's probably a bad idea. As much as I wanted him fired last August/September, it would send a bad signal to the team right now. They need to all pull together.

I'd give him a week or two, and if there's still no results, there might need to be a change. Firing him now would be a knee-jerk reaction by Kenny and those rarely work out in baseball.

As long as Konerko is here, I think Walker will be here. He has good things to say about him. And Ozzie is a huge part of organizational decisions, and I just don't see him getting fired because of it.

I hope I'm wrong, though. Walker is not very good. How can we be so bad against bad pitchers, and why the hell can't he help a young hitter like Anderson? He even said there were problems early in 2006, and he just wanted to wait and see if they worked themselves out.

KC changed hitting coaches midseason last year and they were suddenly hitting the ball like crazy.

DeadMoney
04-17-2007, 10:17 PM
I'm just sore for one reason. I watched the Sox live and die by the homer, and I was absolutely thrilled when they changed that approach for one season. It's so hard to slug your way to a title, and our boys proved that.

The 2001-2004 Sox had to be the most frustrating baseball teams ever. They'd kill the ball for a game and then fizzle out for two. Yeah, they won a number of games, but they were lost when the homers would stop. We all saw it and we hated watching the Twins dink and dunk their way right by us.

Every red flag in the book is up for me right now, because I'm seeing that old approach infiltrate this ballclub, and it's scary. We know how this story ends.

Last year and this year are becoming quite familiar. The plate approach is miserable, and has been for a long time. It has to do with everything and everyone though.

For an example of the entire team's approach changing, think back to Crede and how he hurt his hand in 2005 (before he came back and lit the world on fire); it was on a sacrafice bunt in Minnesota. Since then, I don't believe Ozzie has asked Crede to sac bunt. It's unbelievable to me that your number 6 hitter (last year, this is) couldn't lay down a sacrafice bunt for the better of the team. I'm not suggesting that they need to bunt more, or play more small ball, because first, the entire plate discipline and approach NEEDS to change. It's brutal to watch this team's fundamentals go down the tubes so quickly after 2005. You'd think they would've learned what it took to win a championship.

AJ Hellraiser
04-17-2007, 10:19 PM
Couple of reactions to previous posts:

If the Sox are 39-50 in their last 89 regular season games dating back to AS break 2006... they were 166-92 from opening day 2005 thru the playoffs up to the AS Break 2006... how do things change so quickly.... it's like a light switch being turned on (or off in this case)

Watching Comcast SportsNite right now.. I am not sure if Ozzie implied Sosa would get hit... the question was about possibly walking Sammy, and he was saying he has respect for him but it's not the old Sammy and he would pitch to him everytime he hits.. then he said be ready to get hits I think... as in a sarcastic comment to not expect being pitched around.. he'll get pitches to hit

Finally, Jurr is right... we know how the HR or nothing approach turns out..been there done that... I'd trade ALMOST any player on this team for a guy like Carl Crawford, Ichiro, Ryan Freel, Hanley Ramirez, Robinson Cano or Juan Pierre right now... guys who hit for average or have great speed... we are a team with a ton of power but little else and VERY, VERY slow...

sox1970
04-17-2007, 10:19 PM
I really don't care about the schedule (Oak and Tex are under 500 btw) or the division we're in, sooner or later that **** evens out. What bugs the **** out of me is that this team, a season and 2 weeks removed from the World Series, has adopted a style of play that I despise. They are, IMO, playing scared ****less.... We're either worrying about "facing Sabathia and Santana 3 times already", or "pitchers we've never seen"; we use 5 pitchers a game when the first 2 guys give up one or 2 hits because god forbid Grady Sizemore face a righty; the constant water-torture shifts in the lineup based on who we're facing, well, it's brutal. Do we really need to switch PK and Thome? AJ and Uribe??? How bout some consistency??? That might be the first step to reviving your offense. Put your best guys out there and DARE the other ****in team to beat you. Don't play scared. Right now IMO the Sox are playing baseball like a team with no talent plays football. Run run run punt, run the clock out and hope the other team doesn't score. It's like they're not attacking. Sox fans, I give you the "Prevent Offense"... This team needs some FIRE, not whining about the cold and worrying who the **** we're facing. Tampa beat Santana AND Nathan last week; we're afraid of Gaudin and Tejeda..... Time to step it up. I'm not afraid of ANY team in this division except us.

Well said.

santo=dorf
04-17-2007, 10:20 PM
Even "Thomer" can cut down his swing and move some runners over when he's down in the count. It's a team approach.
Move which runners over? Nobody is on base when he's up.

Why should he cut down on his swing if the pitch is out of the zone? :?:
He doesn't swing at it, so as a result he gets walked. His BA is low, but his
OBP is .479

PeoriaSoxFan
04-17-2007, 10:20 PM
I bought my TV after they invented multiple channels and the remote so I can flip the channel when the Cubs are on Comcast. Plus, I, along with thousands of out of area Sox fans, enjoy being able to watch the Sox without paying $100+ a year.

Yeah, that is funny. I obviously dug a hole with this one, but if helps everyone forget about the Sox hitting woes, I am fine with that. I do forget that some people out of State, etc., actually get to watch the Sox on WGN, so I recant. I still say no WCIU. As far as the MLB package, even if you are willing to pay, it doesn't help any in-State people due to all of the blackout restrictions.

Jurr
04-17-2007, 10:21 PM
Last year and this year are becoming quite familiar. The plate approach is miserable, and has been for a long time. It has to do with everything and everyone though.

For an example of the entire team's approach changing, think back to Crede and how he hurt his hand in 2005 (before he came back and lit the world on fire); it was on a sacrafice bunt in Minnesota. Since then, I don't believe Ozzie has asked Crede to sac bunt. It's unbelievable to me that your number 6 hitter (last year, this is) couldn't lay down a sacrafice bunt for the better of the team. I'm not suggesting that they need to bunt more, or play more small ball, because first, the entire plate discipline and approach NEEDS to change. It's brutal to watch this team's fundamentals go down the tubes so quickly after 2005. You'd think they would've learned what it took to win a championship.
In one year, they changed that approach to a bigger power approach in the hopes of becoming absolutely dominant. The pitching was the big letdown in the '06 season, which led the Sox to a late hole to dig itself out of. When the pitching rebounded enough to keep the Sox competitive, the hitting became totally absent due to its lack of a team concept. Now, the '07 Sox seem to have gotten a little of the pitching spark back, save a couple of starts. However, the station to station long ball vibe is back again. Ho hum.

Law11
04-17-2007, 10:23 PM
They are just not playing with any emotion right now. Defensively, offensively, its just not there for what ever the reason. I just hope we dont look back in Sept saying those 12-15 losses in April killed us.

sox1970
04-17-2007, 10:24 PM
If the Sox are 39-50 in their last 89 regular season games dating back to AS break 2006... they were 166-93 from opening day 2005 thru the playoffs up to the AS Break 2006... how do things change so quickly.... it's like a light switch being turned om (or off in this case)

Bad starting pitching, no timely hitting. This team better show something quick, or you're going to see a very young team in August.

Jurr
04-17-2007, 10:25 PM
Move which runners over? Nobody is on base when he's up.

Why should he cut down on his swing if the pitch is out of the zone? :?:
He doesn't swing at it, so as a result he gets walked. His BA is low, but his
OBP is .479
Dude, I'm not talking about the last two or so games. I'm talking about the last season +10 games.

Thome is a beast, and he's gotta be a key component to this offense for it to be successful. I'm saying that it's damn hard to convince the other 8 guys to cut down on their swings and hit for contact when one man is swinging out of his shoes on 0-2.

DeadMoney
04-17-2007, 10:25 PM
In one year, they changed that approach to a bigger power approach in the hopes of becoming absolutely dominant. The pitching was the big letdown in the '06 season, which led the Sox to a late hole to dig itself out of. When the pitching rebounded enough to keep the Sox competitive, the hitting became totally absent due to its lack of a team concept. Now, the '07 Sox seem to have gotten a little of the pitching spark back, save a couple of starts. However, the station to station long ball vibe is back again. Ho hum.


Well, by no means does the pitching staff deserve a complete pass in all of this, but for now, the offense is just annoying to watch. An it has been going back to the all-star break of last year. I was hoping that all that talking that Ozzie did in the offseason would've fixed the problems, but as of now - nada. If you start getting hits, the HR's will come. But without the hits and everyone swinging to leave earth, who knows when the slump will end.

PeoriaSoxFan
04-17-2007, 10:25 PM
The Walker discussion is interesting. I would be surprised if they made a change, unless this team wide slump is prolonged. I wonder how much of a difference a new coach would make, if any. Is there a Coop of hitting out there somewhere?

Also, what the heck is the deal with Pods and these frequent muscle pulls anyway? Maybe we should be attacking the trainer as well.

oeo
04-17-2007, 10:26 PM
Last year and this year are becoming quite familiar. The plate approach is miserable, and has been for a long time. It has to do with everything and everyone though.

For an example of the entire team's approach changing, think back to Crede and how he hurt his hand in 2005 (before he came back and lit the world on fire); it was on a sacrafice bunt in Minnesota. Since then, I don't believe Ozzie has asked Crede to sac bunt. It's unbelievable to me that your number 6 hitter (last year, this is) couldn't lay down a sacrafice bunt for the better of the team. I'm not suggesting that they need to bunt more, or play more small ball, because first, the entire plate discipline and approach NEEDS to change. It's brutal to watch this team's fundamentals go down the tubes so quickly after 2005. You'd think they would've learned what it took to win a championship.

No offense, but what does Crede not laying down a sac bunt have to do with the entire offense trying to hit homeruns? Honestly, I don't give a **** about smallball. I just want to see them do what they can with the pitch given. If it's a meatball, go ahead and crush it, but if it's not, take it the other way, hit it into the gap, etc. You can't ****ing pull everything for a homerun. Pods is the only guy (or I should say was now), that was not pulling this bull****, and look, he was hitting .303.

I wonder if this team will ever have a rally.

ND_Sox_Fan
04-17-2007, 10:26 PM
Bad starting pitching, no timely hitting. This team better show something quick, or you're going to see a very young team in August.

Brooks had better dust off the old "These kids can play" slogan.

HotelWhiteSox
04-17-2007, 10:26 PM
The offense is having rough times, I just hope the pitching is there when it comes to life, but I am not against some evaluation of the hitting coach.



Joe Crede is still a joke at the plate and should have been moved when value was at an all-time high.

Still? Along with when, a week ago? He started hot in Spring and now he's gone cold. Next

JB98
04-17-2007, 10:27 PM
Even "Thomer" can cut down his swing and move some runners over when he's down in the count. It's a team approach.

Tonight, JT was the guy who was getting on base and was in need of being moved over. The guys hitting behind him weren't doing the job, except for AJ, who had a couple of base hits.

Jim and AJ were all we had tonight.

Scottiehaswheels
04-17-2007, 10:28 PM
Is there a Coop of hitting out there somewhere?
There sure is.. Doubt we can convince the team currently in the other dugout to leave him behind when they leave however....

oeo
04-17-2007, 10:28 PM
The Walker discussion is interesting. I would be surprised if they made a change, unless this team wide slump is prolonged. I wonder how much of a difference a new coach would make, if any. Is there a Coop of hitting out there somewhere?

Also, what the heck is the deal with Pods and these frequent muscle pulls anyway? Maybe we should be attacking the trainer as well.

We have the best training staff in the league. When Pods is the only one having a problem, then it's Pods. Blame a training staff when you're whole team is having injury problems, like the Cubs for instance.

Jurr
04-17-2007, 10:28 PM
They are just not playing with any emotion right now. Defensively, offensively, its just not there for what ever the reason. I just hope we dont look back in Sept saying those 12-15 losses in April killed us.
Well, I'm not so sure about emotion. Emotion is what leads to players gritting their teeth and swinging like madmen at pitches that would be better served up the middle with a controlled swing.

They need to relax, react, and see the ball. Inside out swings, opposite field approaches, and focusing on driving the ball up the middle would do this team a lot of good.

Emotion? Not so muich. Playing within the confines of a good approach will bring confidence, which is what the players are lacking.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-17-2007, 10:29 PM
Also, what the heck is the deal with Pods and these frequent muscle pulls anyway? Maybe we should be attacking the trainer as well.

Nah, to hell with the trainer. I'm far more intrigued with the notion that Lisa Dergan is the source of Pod's groin problem.

:smile:

oeo
04-17-2007, 10:29 PM
There sure is.. Doubt we can convince the team currently in the other dugout to leave him behind when they leave however....

Haha, I was thinking about this same thing. We should have lured him over here during the offseason.

AJ Hellraiser
04-17-2007, 10:29 PM
Also, what the heck is the deal with Pods and these frequent muscle pulls anyway? Maybe we should be attacking the trainer as well.

*****.. everyone knows Herm "Dr. Pain" Schneider is one of the best traines in baseball

Pods' injuries are not a shock to me at all.. he is getting older and was never a GREAT base stealer ala Henderson, Vince Coleman, Tim Raines or like Jose Reyes will be...

He had a few nice seasons when base stealing numbers were down league wide.. the issue is that when a player's entire career is based solely on his legs and he starts to age, it takes its toll.... I've said this a million times...I would be absolutely shocked if Pods ever has as much effect on the base paths as he did 2003-2005

thomas35forever
04-17-2007, 10:30 PM
Wow. From the looks of things, I sure was lucky to be at work tonight.

DeadMoney
04-17-2007, 10:30 PM
No offense, but what does Crede not laying down a sac bunt have to do with the entire offense trying to hit homeruns? Honestly, I don't give a **** about smallball. I just want to see them do what they can with the pitch given. If it's a meatball, go ahead and crush it, but if it's not, take it the other way, hit it into the gap (I don't think I've seen a single gapper this year). You can't ****ing pull everything for a homerun.

I wonder if this team will ever have a rally.

FWIW, I agree with you.

As far as my comment, I was comparing it to the complete approach as a team, top-to-bottom. If one thing (seemingly so simple) that relates to coaching philosophy has changed so much in 2 years, what stops the players from changing how they view single at-bats. The overall approach at the plate right now is bad, and it's not just small ball - I also could care less about a sacrafice bunt, because there are many more things that are bigger problems. And you named a few of them.

I wish they'd just make it simple at the plate again!

santo=dorf
04-17-2007, 10:30 PM
Still? Along with when, a week ago? He started hot in Spring and now he's gone cold. Next
Yes, still. He has had 2 good games.
He was completely awful last September but that didn't stop some of the cheerleaders like Hawk Harrelson from saying they would take him over A-Rod.

oeo
04-17-2007, 10:31 PM
They are just not playing with any emotion right now. Defensively, offensively, its just not there for what ever the reason. I just hope we dont look back in Sept saying those 12-15 losses in April killed us.

I disagree with this. On Sunday, Crede was ejected...that sounds like emotion to me. I also saw Konerko (of all people), slamming his helmet a few times in the dugout after making an out.

Jurr
04-17-2007, 10:31 PM
Nah, to hell with the trainer. I'm far more intrigued with the notion that Lisa Dergan is the source of Pod's groin problem.

:smile:
It's been a while since I've seen the Dergan/groin issue come up!:redneck

southsideirish71
04-17-2007, 10:32 PM
It's been a while since I've seen the Dergan/groin issue come up!:redneck


At least you can tip your hat for getting injured on that non-baseball related activity.

Jurr
04-17-2007, 10:33 PM
I disagree with this. On Sunday, Crede was ejected...that sounds like emotion to me. I also saw Konerko (of all people), slamming his helmet a few times in the dugout after making an out.
Yup. Perfectly said. Confidence is the issue, not emotion. Get that good team approach to hitting back, watch this team gain some confidence because they have a plan, and all will be well.

100 Year Itch
04-17-2007, 10:34 PM
Let's face it, when it comes to position players and the DH this team is poorly constructed; especially so in light of the team's manager and his approach to winning baseball.

The team has invested heavily in "bashers" - Thome, Konerko - while filling the rest of the counter-balancing aspect of the line-up, the guys that get on base ahead of the bashers, with second or third tier market chips.

The SOX won it all in 2005 with a powerful, but balanced offense, and plus-pitching and plus-defense.

I believe the pitching is in place with the 2007 squad however the offense is completely out of balance and the defense (particularly the infield defense), surprisingly, looks weak.

Personally I would look to trade either Konerko or Thome and look for a quality OBP guy in return. This should free enough salary space to sign Crede to a fair deal while leaving enough financial wiggle room to sign Dye without having to neglect other important needs.

oeo
04-17-2007, 10:36 PM
Let's face it, when it comes to position players and the DH this team is poorly constructed; especially so in light of the team's manager and his approach to winning baseball.

The team has invested heavily in "bashers" - Thome, Konerko - while filling the rest of the counter-balancing aspect of the line-up, the guys that get on base ahead of the bashers, with second or third tier market chips.

The SOX won it all in 2005 with a powerful, but balanced offense, and plus-pitching and plus-defense.

I believe the pitching is in place with the 2007 squad however the offense is completely out of balance and the defense (particularly the infield defense), surprisingly, looks weak.

Personally I would look to trade either Konerko or Thome and look for a quality OBP guy in return. This should free enough salary space to sign Crede to a fair deal while leaving enough financial wiggle room to sign Dye without having to neglect other important needs.

I hope you're kidding.

The 'construction' of the offense is fine. The problem (and it's been a problem for years, not just now) is the approach they're taking. I don't know where else you can look other than the hitting coach, for that.

Coop has to have a twin brother that's a hitter.

itsnotrequired
04-17-2007, 10:39 PM
Sig update time...

Jurr
04-17-2007, 10:40 PM
Sig update time...
Glad to see the addition of some poultry to balance out a great ballpark diet.

JB98
04-17-2007, 10:44 PM
I hope you're kidding.

The 'construction' of the offense is fine. The problem (and it's been a problem for years, not just now) is the approach they're taking. I don't know where else you can look other than the hitting coach, for that.

Coop has to have a twin brother that's a hitter.

The only thing I'd point out is we've changed hitting coaches before, and it didn't work. I'm about to sound like Jerry Manual here, but at some point, the hitters have to take responsibility for their careers.

itsnotrequired
04-17-2007, 10:44 PM
Worst part about the game? The doof in front of us in Cubs gear cheering for Sosa. After the HR, he was all a twitter. I reminded him that the Cubs lost today and asked how Sosa was helping the Cubs and he said "Who cares? Sosa helps me." He washes your car? He does your shopping? Give me a break. He also called Sosa the best player in Chicago history and then left shortly thereafter.

I then directed my attention to the guy in a Washington Nationals hat and Nike sport suit rooting for Sosa. Or maybe he was booing him, I don't remember, who cares...

Brian26
04-17-2007, 10:44 PM
I'm really happy I didn't go to this game. Shammy hits a homer on an 0-2 count? :mad:

And he celebrated with his hand in the air all the way to firstbase. The most important "3-run homer when your team already has a four run lead" of all time.

oeo
04-17-2007, 10:47 PM
The only thing I'd point out is we've changed hitting coaches before, and it didn't work. I'm about to sound like Jerry Manual here, but at some point, the hitters have to take responsibility for their careers.

I don't see how a change would hurt. Walker isn't doing anything special...he's not Jaramillo. Like I said earlier, the Royals changed hitting coaches during last year and they saw drastic improvements. I'm not guaranteeing a change will help (of course you have to hire the right guy, first), but we're not losing anything by trying something new.

Brian26
04-17-2007, 10:49 PM
Trying to put a positive spin on this.

I actually saw some positive approaches at the plate tonight by AJ. He fought off a ton of pitches before he got that base hit, so maybe he's starting to come out of it. Same thing with Konerko late in the game before the double into left field.

Also, there's a new Turkey Wrap in the Club Level section that is dynamite.

JB98
04-17-2007, 10:51 PM
Trying to put a positive spin on this.

I actually saw some positive approaches at the plate tonight by AJ. He fought off a ton of pitches before he got that base hit, so maybe he's starting to come out of it. Same thing with Konerko late in the game before the double into left field.

Also, there's a new Turkey Wrap in the Club Level section that is dynamite.

Agree on AJ. Like I said earlier in the thread, he and Thome were all we had tonight. AJ had a two-strike base hit to the opposite field. That's AJ at his best.

Brian26
04-17-2007, 10:51 PM
The Erstad signing is a joke. If KW can put aside his personal bias and not worry about saving face, I predict grinderstad will follow the route of Politte, Shingo, Mike Jackson, and Rick White.

I wouldn't group Politte in there at all. He made a great contribution to the 2005 World Series team. Shingo had half a season to be proud of. Jackson and White were pure garbage.

JB98
04-17-2007, 10:53 PM
I don't see how a change would hurt. Walker isn't doing anything special...he's not Jaramillo. Like I said earlier, the Royals changed hitting coaches during last year and they saw drastic improvements. I'm not guaranteeing a change will help (of course you have to hire the right guy, first), but we're not losing anything by trying something new.

I think changing hitting coaches this early in the year could be looked at as a panic move by the players. I just think we should guard against ****ting ourselves over the first 12 games of the season. If this bull**** continues for another couple weeks, then it's time to reevaluate the situation.

oeo
04-17-2007, 10:53 PM
I wouldn't group Politte in there at all. He made a great contribution to the 2005 World Series team. Shingo had half a season to be proud of. Jackson and White were pure garbage.

Oh, Mike Jackson...the king of the grand slam.

FedEx227
04-17-2007, 10:54 PM
Oh, Mike Jackson...the king of the grand slam.

Few men could **** up a 6-run lead like Mike Jackson

Brian26
04-17-2007, 10:54 PM
This team is 39-50 over the last 89 regular season games. I'll give them another 31 games to turn it around. They suck until further notice.

Completely meaningless state since over 75 of those games were last year with a different team.

Season records aren't cumulative. 2004 didn't mean anything once 2005 started, and the same holds true this year.

oeo
04-17-2007, 10:55 PM
I think changing hitting coaches this early in the year could be looked at as a panic move by the players. I just think we should guard against ****ting ourselves over the first 12 games of the season. If this bull**** continues for another couple weeks, then it's time to reevaluate the situation.

I'm not ****ting myself. I thought Walker should have been fired last year, and if the hitting does turn around (which it will), it won't be because of Walker, it will be them turning it around themselves.

Maybe wait, but regardless, he shouldn't be with us in 2008.

santo=dorf
04-17-2007, 10:55 PM
I wouldn't group Politte in there at all. He made a great contribution to the 2005 World Series team. Shingo had half a season to be proud of. Jackson and White were pure garbage.
Basically I was hoping for Erstad to follow in the tradition of being DFA in the summer. Perhaps we can make Erstad our team rep since KW and OG love him so much. That's usually a sign of bad things to come.

100 Year Itch
04-17-2007, 10:55 PM
I hope you're kidding.

The 'construction' of the offense is fine. The problem (and it's been a problem for years, not just now) is the approach they're taking. I don't know where else you can look other than the hitting coach, for that.

Coop has to have a twin brother that's a hitter.

No, the construction of the offense is TERRIBLE in light of the current manager's philosophy toward winning ballgames.

If Guillen is the Sox manager then the team should be allocating the greatest amount of resources toward: pitching, fielding, situational hitting, power. In that order.

Constructing the offense as the Sox (Williams) has, to date, has put the team's manager in a position where he is ill-equipped to operate.

Call me crazy, but I think Guillen is power hungry and the next time Ozzie makes a big splash he will be the GM of a world series winning ball club.

Where most fans go wrong is very simple:

Ozzie = Winner

Kenny = Loser

However Jerry is hamstrung b/c the league needs more black general managers.

santo=dorf
04-17-2007, 10:57 PM
What a ridiculous post.

If it weren't for KW, we wouldn't have 2005. PERIOD. Show some respect otherwise I might call Jesse Jackson.

JB98
04-17-2007, 10:57 PM
I'm not ****ting myself. I thought Walker should have been fired last year, and if the hitting does turn around (which it will), it won't be because of Walker, it will be them turning it around themselves.

Maybe wait, but regardless, he shouldn't be with us in 2008.

It doesn't matter whether you **** yourself or not. I think KW/Ozzie would be ****ting themselves by firing a coach 12 games into the season. It would be indicative of not believing in that coach's ability to begin with, in which case a change should have been made over the offseason.

oeo
04-17-2007, 10:58 PM
Blah, blah, blah,...Call me crazy, yada, yada, yada.

You're crazy.

TheOldRoman
04-17-2007, 11:00 PM
No, the construction of the offense is TERRIBLE in light of the current manager's philosophy toward winning ballgames.

If Guillen is the Sox manager then the team should be allocating the greatest amount of resources toward: pitching, fielding, situational hitting, power. In that order.

Constructing the offense as the Sox (Williams) has, to date, has put the team's manager in a position where he is ill-equipped to operate.

Call me crazy, but I think Guillen is power hungry and the next time Ozzie makes a big splash he will be the GM of a world series winning ball club.

Where most fans go wrong is very simple:

Ozzie = Winner

Kenny = Loser

However Jerry is hamstrung b/c the league needs more black general managers.
:dumbass:

oeo
04-17-2007, 11:00 PM
It doesn't matter whether you **** yourself or not. I think KW/Ozzie would be ****ting themselves by firing a coach 12 games into the season. It would be indicative of not believing in that coach's ability to begin with, in which case a change should have been made over the offseason.

Sorry, I thought you were referring to me (and the people that are ****ting themselves), when you said "we".

Bill Naharodny
04-17-2007, 11:00 PM
I'm just sore for one reason. I watched the Sox live and die by the homer, and I was absolutely thrilled when they changed that approach for one season. It's so hard to slug your way to a title, and our boys proved that.

The 2001-2004 Sox had to be the most frustrating baseball teams ever. They'd kill the ball for a game and then fizzle out for two. Yeah, they won a number of games, but they were lost when the homers would stop. We all saw it and we hated watching the Twins dink and dunk their way right by us.

Every red flag in the book is up for me right now, because I'm seeing that old approach infiltrate this ballclub, and it's scary. We know how this story ends.

Please forward this memo to Kenny Williams.

100 Year Itch
04-17-2007, 11:16 PM
What a ridiculous post.

If it weren't for KW, we wouldn't have 2005. PERIOD. Show some respect otherwise I might call Jesse Jackson.

Where am I wrong? 2005 was a team assembled in Guillen's image. Strong pitching backed up by solid defense, supported by situational hitting and ultimately the long ball.

The equation for successful baseball is not that difficult: quality starts plus a solid defense intermixed with guys that get on base, get guys over and get guys in.

The STEROID era, represented by winning games with three run homers, is so nineteen-nineties.

The real fans have spoken and we want exciting baseball; of which is comprised of guys who get on base followed by guys that know how to get said guys to cross homeplate. We'd rather see a failed attempt at a steal-bunt-sacfly than watching two hitters swing into oblivion.

FUNdamentals.

SBSoxFan
04-17-2007, 11:18 PM
Wow, that went sour quick. Garland's cruising. Next thing you know, Crede makes a poor throw on a double play opportunity, and, bam, 2-1 Texas. Then Sosa starts a 3 run rally. :rolleyes: Anyone notice the hop on the double? At least DJ called him out on it a bit.

If they can't hit some of the pitchers they've seen, what's going to happen against Millwood?

FedEx227
04-17-2007, 11:19 PM
Where am I wrong? 2005 was a team assembled in Guillen's image. Strong pitching backed up by solid defense, supported by situational hitting and ultimately the long ball.

The equation for successful baseball is not that difficult: quality starts plus a solid defense intermixed with guys that get on base, get guys over and get guys in.

The STEROID era, represented by winning games with three run homers, is so nineteen-nineties.

The real fans have spoken and we want exciting baseball; of which is comprised of guys who get on base followed by guys that know how to get said guys to cross homeplate. We'd rather see a failed attempt at a steal-bunt-sacfly than watching two hitters swing into oblivion.

FUNdamentals.

You were wrong in the sense that Kenny Williams only has his job because he's black. That was a retarded comment to make because he's proven that he's well-capable of being a fine MLB general manager.

Tragg
04-17-2007, 11:20 PM
In one year, they changed that approach to a bigger power approach in the hopes of becoming absolutely dominant.
We may not have "Tried" to hit home runs in 2005, but we hit a boatload of them in 2005 and our offense was very dependent on the homer. We executed a lot better when we tried to bunt, though (but there were exceptions - Rowand couldn't bunt to save his life); and moreover, because out pitching was so good, it made more sense to bunt then because we were in a lot of close games and won most of them.
But homers were absolutely key in the Boston series, the Worlds Series (games 3 and 4 were directly won with Homers) and many games throughout 2005.
The difference, I think, is that our pitching isn't what it was.

JB98
04-17-2007, 11:24 PM
We may not have "Tried" to hit home runs in 2005, but we hit a boatload of them in 2005 and our offense was very dependent on the homer. We executed a lot better when we tried to bunt, though (but there were exceptions - Rowand couldn't bunt to save his life); and moreover, because out pitching was so good, it made more sense to bunt then because we were in a lot of close games and won most of them.
But homers were absolutely key in the Boston series, the Worlds Series (games 3 and 4 were directly won with Homers) and many games throughout 2005.
The difference, I think, is that our pitching isn't what it was.

I like home runs, and I think they are an important part of any offense. My concern is we're seeing bad situational hitting. Take the game in Cleveland on Saturday. First-and-third, no outs with 5-6-7 coming up in the batting order, and we can't get **** done. It's perplexing because situational hitting was such a point of emphasis this spring. We have a lot of strong guys in our lineup. I think the home runs will come on accident if the hitters are taking a solid approach.

Tragg
04-17-2007, 11:37 PM
I like home runs, and I think they are an important part of any offense. My concern is we're seeing bad situational hitting. Take the game in Cleveland on Saturday. First-and-third, no outs with 5-6-7 coming up in the batting order, and we can't get **** done. It's perplexing because situational hitting was such a point of emphasis this spring. We have a lot of strong guys in our lineup. I think the home runs will come on accident if the hitters are taking a solid approach.
I agree with you - when we need situational hitting, we're not getting it. And we got it in 2005 when we needed it.

I just don't like the strategy of "forcing" situational hitting - bunting with a runner on 1st. Ozzie did that Sunday and in the 8th down a run. You've got a fast guy on 1st, no outs, and power hitters coming up and you have to bunt him over (and considering who was hitting, bunting was probablyt he best choice I suppose).

TomBradley72
04-17-2007, 11:40 PM
I still like our pitching staff. But our offense is a complete "2004 redux"....despite our efforts to become "grinders" what we really are is a team of slow footed sluggers...the fastest guys in tonights line up were Erstad and Iguchi. Mackowiak/Erstad/Cintron in our starting line up? Bleh.

We look like a 90 win team...which will join the long list of White Sox teams that were respectable but did not make the post season. (ie. the 50's, 60's, 90's and the 00's).

Tragg
04-17-2007, 11:45 PM
No, the construction of the offense is TERRIBLE in light of the current manager's philosophy toward winning ballgames.

I think you are exaggerating.
But I think you make a good point: IF Ozzie insists on playing Grinders, then Williams needs to get him some good grinders.

FedEx227
04-17-2007, 11:50 PM
I think you are exaggerating.
But I think you make a good point: IF Ozzie insists on playing Grinders, then Williams needs to get him some good grinders.

Trade Dye/Crede to St. Louis for David Eckstein.

Get Konerko/Garland on their way to Phily for Rowand.

Throw Anderson/Sweeney/Iguchi over to Houston for Biggio and AWWWWAAAY we go!

IronFisk
04-17-2007, 11:57 PM
Damn, last time I checked it was April... :rolleyes:

Tragg
04-18-2007, 12:01 AM
Trade Dye/Crede to St. Louis for David Eckstein.

Get Konerko/Garland on their way to Phily for Rowand.

Throw Anderson/Sweeney/Iguchi over to Houston for Biggio and AWWWWAAAY we go!
LOL
Carlos Lee for Scott Podsednik. (just kidding - salary flexibility move).
But I didn't say make bad trades. The one good thing about grinders is that they come cheap.
I was also thinking perhaps to find one under the age of methusala.

Grzegorz
04-18-2007, 04:51 AM
If they can't hit some of the pitchers they've seen, what's going to happen against Millwood?

They'll go out on the field as professionals do what they're paid to do: win ballgames.

I am sure they're embarrassed about their performance to date and I am sure they'll be ready for tonight.

Foulke You
04-18-2007, 06:22 AM
They'll go out on the field as professionals do what they're paid to do: win ballgames.

I am sure they're embarrassed about their performance to date and I am sure they'll be ready for tonight.
I hope so. Millwood gave us fits when he was on the Tribe. The offense has to snap out of it sooner or later. There are too many good hitters with track records in this lineup that are struggling. Right now, I think they are pressing because they know they need to score and they aren't. Crede and Konerko look especially tense at the plate lately.

Law11
04-18-2007, 07:51 AM
I disagree with this. On Sunday, Crede was ejected...that sounds like emotion to me. I also saw Konerko (of all people), slamming his helmet a few times in the dugout after making an out.

Maybe emotion is the wrong word but they just seem to be missing that "punch" I don't know.. something intangable is just not there so far this year.

Maybe its just how I'm percieving the start but it just seems so "sleepwalking though innings" type of appearance.

maybe I'm just nuts...

Jurr
04-18-2007, 08:19 AM
We may not have "Tried" to hit home runs in 2005, but we hit a boatload of them in 2005 and our offense was very dependent on the homer. We executed a lot better when we tried to bunt, though (but there were exceptions - Rowand couldn't bunt to save his life); and moreover, because out pitching was so good, it made more sense to bunt then because we were in a lot of close games and won most of them.
But homers were absolutely key in the Boston series, the Worlds Series (games 3 and 4 were directly won with Homers) and many games throughout 2005.
The difference, I think, is that our pitching isn't what it was.
It's the approach. Think about, for instance, the final game in Boston (ALDS). Some homers were hit in that game, but the versatility of the offense led to the "nails in the coffin" late. Perfect execution.

Houston game 3 against Oswalt. There are tons of examples. When the Sox had a spell of homer reliance that year, they struggled. When they got back to basics, they did so just in time to get hot and win it all. Yes, the Sox had a good number of homers that year, and relied on them quite a bit, but it was another weapon in their arsenal, along with situational hitting. For the last two years, the long ball has been too much of a crutch, and it's gotta change somewhat.

Jurr
04-18-2007, 08:23 AM
Maybe emotion is the wrong word but they just seem to be missing that "punch" I don't know.. something intangable is just not there so far this year.

Maybe its just how I'm percieving the start but it just seems so "sleepwalking though innings" type of appearance.

maybe I'm just nuts...
Once again, it's all about confidence in their approach. The players are going up there trying to cheat on every fastball that comes their way, and they aren't getting those pitches because they're not being selective or cutting down their swings. You can handle a pitch with some movement if you have a good approach, putting an emphasis on contact. When you lengthen your swing in the hopes of knocking it out of the park, you are doomed to failure when a pitcher isn't giving you cookies all day. Then, we're seeing that carry over to the field. It's ridiculous.

A relaxed team wins. A confident team with a good approach is a relaxed team, one that can block out the static and rely on its God given ability. These hitters need to start swinging for contact and not try to force the power issue, and they'll be able to get back to a relaxed, effective form of baseball. That's easier said than done.

TomBradley72
04-18-2007, 08:30 AM
Maybe emotion is the wrong word but they just seem to be missing that "punch" I don't know.. something intangable is just not there so far this year.

Maybe its just how I'm percieving the start but it just seems so "sleepwalking though innings" type of appearance.

maybe I'm just nuts...

They have the lowest team batting average in MLB...that always makes a team look dead/no fire, etc...

stl_sox_fan
04-18-2007, 08:49 AM
And he celebrated with his hand in the air all the way to firstbase. The most important "3-run homer when your team already has a four run lead" of all time.

Sosa must be a disciple of Joachim Noah.

SBSoxFan
04-18-2007, 08:53 AM
It's the approach. Think about, for instance, the final game in Boston (ALDS). Some homers were hit in that game, but the versatility of the offense led to the "nails in the coffin" late. Perfect execution.

Houston game 3 against Oswalt. There are tons of examples. When the Sox had a spell of homer reliance that year, they struggled. When they got back to basics, they did so just in time to get hot and win it all. Yes, the Sox had a good number of homers that year, and relied on them quite a bit, but it was another weapon in their arsenal, along with situational hitting. For the last two years, the long ball has been too much of a crutch, and it's gotta change somewhat.

Isn't this a function of Pods in the lineup and playing well? When he got on to lead off a game in '05 it almost seemed like a foregone conclusion that he would score, usually via a stolen base. When he was out of the lineup in '05, the team struggled. When he came back, even though he didn't have his speed, he was hitting well and the team excelled again. Pods was bad last year and the offense was streaky, i. e., home run reliant.

Pitching aside, I'm starting to think Pods is more important to the team than people care to admit. Having said that, I think I'd put Ozuna in while Pods is gone and see if he can't run wild for about a month.

WizardsofOzzie
04-18-2007, 08:58 AM
:tomatoaward

Only one Tomato? I expected at least 3 or 4 after that god awful performance!!

stl_sox_fan
04-18-2007, 09:02 AM
Isn't this a function of Pods in the lineup and playing well? When he got on to lead off a game in '05 it almost seemed like a foregone conclusion that he would score, usually via a stolen base. When he was out of the lineup in '05, the team struggled. When he came back, even though he didn't have his speed, he was hitting well and the team excelled again. Pods was bad last year and the offense was streaky, i. e., home run reliant.

Pitching aside, I'm starting to think Pods is more important to the team than people care to admit. Having said that, I think I'd put Ozuna in while Pods is gone and see if he can't run wild for about a month.

Very true. A leadoff hitter is so essential. Iguchi really benefitted in the 2 spot in '05 because of Pods being on base and pestering the pitcher. Pitcher takes his mind off the batter and starts thinking about the runner and bam things started happening for the offense. Now with noone on base regularly they just go back to the all or nothing approach. Last in batting and averaging just over 3 runs a game.
Quote I hope I don't have to use this year. "I thought they had hit rock bottom. Now I see they have hit rock bottom and started to dig."

PaulDrake
04-18-2007, 09:18 AM
Completely meaningless state since over 75 of those games were last year with a different team.

Season records aren't cumulative. 2004 didn't mean anything once 2005 started, and the same holds true this year. I wish I could agree with you but I don't. I see lots of similarities and lots of carryovers. A few days ago I was feeling pretty good, so a three bad games later I'm not opening up the window. There's plenty of time for a turnaround, but there's also a number of things that worry me. Yes, this does look like the second half of 06 to me.

slobes
04-18-2007, 09:34 AM
They have the lowest team batting average in MLB...that always makes a team look dead/no fire, etc...

.215 batting average = 5-7 record despite a 3.92 team ERA

jenn2080
04-18-2007, 09:54 AM
They have the lowest team batting average in MLB...that always makes a team look dead/no fire, etc...


Don't forget about the team with the least runs scored in MLB.

jabrch
04-18-2007, 10:01 AM
lock up the knife drawer! We've had 3 bad games in a row!

Some of you guys just crack me up.

itsnotrequired
04-18-2007, 10:36 AM
lock up the knife drawer! We've had 3 bad games in a row!

Some of you guys just crack me up.

I've already burned all my season tickets. It is probably for the best.

:redneck

ChiSox36
04-18-2007, 10:38 AM
It's more than three games in a row we're talking here. We have barely held on to a couple, and have blown a couple, and it would be a lot worse without the pitching doing well. We are three games back two weeks in to the season, and Detroit is missing Rogers...if we don't turn it around quick, this season is done. We need to play White Sox baseball again...not this s*** we have been playing.

itsnotrequired
04-18-2007, 10:39 AM
It's more than three games in a row we're talking here. We have barely held on to a couple, and have blown a couple, and it would be a lot worse without the pitching doing well. We are three games back two weeks in to the season, and Detroit is missing Rogers...if we don't turn it around quick, this season is done. We need to play White Sox baseball again...not this s*** we have been playing.

I love over the top statements.

:rolleyes:

stl_sox_fan
04-18-2007, 10:46 AM
Sweet Lou said in an interview last weekend that you can tell how a team will do after 16 games. Wait 4 more games to decide the whole season.

oeo
04-18-2007, 11:06 AM
It's more than three games in a row we're talking here. We have barely held on to a couple, and have blown a couple, and it would be a lot worse without the pitching doing well. We are three games back two weeks in to the season, and Detroit is missing Rogers...if we don't turn it around quick, this season is done. We need to play White Sox baseball again...not this s*** we have been playing.

Do you know who the Tigers have played to start the season? The Royals, the Orioles, and their only competitor, the Blue Jays, who they have 3 of their 5 losses against. Not to mention they pulled off a couple of wins in the 9th/extra innings against the Royals/Orioles.

So they're 7-2 against the Orioles and Royals...big deal.

mark2olson
04-18-2007, 11:44 AM
It's more than three games in a row we're talking here. We have barely held on to a couple, and have blown a couple, and it would be a lot worse without the pitching doing well. We are three games back two weeks in to the season, and Detroit is missing Rogers...if we don't turn it around quick, this season is done. We need to play White Sox baseball again...not this s*** we have been playing.

On May 1st of 2006, the Twins were sitting with a record of 9 and 16 and were mired in fourth place in the division. They finished with a record of 96 and 66 to win the division. You don't need to look very far for similar examples. The 2005 Astros managed to piece together a record of 10 and 13 in April but went on to win the pennant and face our Sox in the World Series. Even during our championship year, we had our up and down moments. As a matter of fact, many pundits, emphasizing the down moments, had predicted that the Red Sox would win their series against us. Then, in a similar fashion, many pundits predicted that the Angels would win, and so it continued.

I've seen some positive things in our team that could help us to win ball games down the road. I've seen some negative things as well that, if not corrected, could cause us to lose ball games down the road. Our guys are professionals, we have professionals in charge, they'll work at righting the ship. I wouldn't give up on the season so early. Just MO.

Edited to correct mistake in Twins record....

Scottiehaswheels
04-18-2007, 11:48 AM
On May 1st of 2006, the Twins were sitting with a record of 24 and 29 and were mired in fourth place in the division. Is that a double header each day or what? :D:

mark2olson
04-18-2007, 11:51 AM
Is that a double header each day or what? :D:

My mistake, 9 and 16, I would hate to give the Twins any more credit than they need (or think they need).