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View Full Version : Where would you rank Ichiro..?


JermaineDye05
04-16-2007, 06:34 PM
In the greatest hitters of ML history, where would you put him on the list? If anywhere that is.

Frontman
04-16-2007, 07:33 PM
Hard to say now, as his career isn't over yet. But as an active player? Top 10 easily.

MUsoxfan
04-16-2007, 07:34 PM
Not even near the top. He puts up some nice numbers, but he's got a while to go yet to be considered for "All-Time Great" status

Tragg
04-16-2007, 07:41 PM
In the greatest hitters of ML history, where would you put him on the list? If anywhere that is. If he retired now, nowhere. If he kept his numbers up for another 10 years, a marginal hall of famer - About on the same level as Craig Biggio.
A non hall of famer like Tim Raines has similar OPS and similar steals numbers as Ichiro.

JermaineDye05
04-16-2007, 07:42 PM
Not even near the top. He puts up some nice numbers, but he's got a while to go yet to be considered for "All-Time Great" status

With his numbers he had in Japan he could easily be put up there had he started his career in the majors. He's already broken 1 record and might even break another one (the record of 8 consecutive seasons with 200+ hits). He'll also probably be the first player to be inducted into the HOF for 2 different leagues.

INSox56
04-17-2007, 09:05 AM
Not to mention his defensive prowess....the guy has a friggin cannon..

lumpyspun
04-17-2007, 09:29 AM
Of course if you talk about strictly US stats, he lags way behind current HOF's at this point.

When you watch the guy bat four times a game over the last 6 years you realize hitters like him don't come around too often.

ewokpelts
04-17-2007, 10:31 AM
Japaneese players who come to america have to be looked at the same way as Negro Leaguers who eventually ended up in the majors. Know that thier stats will never truly match up due to not playing an average career in MLB, but try and look at thier cumulative stats and make the best guess on what it would have translated to as a full time big leaguer.

Matsuzaka is still pretty young(26 i think) so if he plays 14-15 years(the average lifespan of a decent mlb pitcher) he may have enough stats on his own. Ichiro came in at 28 i think. The same as Minnie's "listed" age when he joined the big leagues.

jabrch
04-17-2007, 11:26 AM
Depends on what you ask. I take guys like Ichiro and evaluate them on a very different scale than guys like Pujols because they are asked to do different things.

Ichiro gets evaluated with Tony Gwynn. He gets evaluated with Wade Boggs. He gets evaluated with Pete Rose.

And he is behind each one of them.

I love what he does. He would look awesome in our lineup, at the top of the order, in RF next season. He's amongst the top 10 of his ilk all-time. But he's nowhere near the impact player that it takes to be a Top 10 hitter of all time. He's got a lot of catching up to do just to be top 10 in the past 10 years, much less all-time.

Put it this way - off the top of my head, Ruth, Williams, Foxx, Gehrig, Mantle, Robinson, Ott, Kaline, Winfield, Musial, Mays, Murray, and Yaz all come ahead of Frank Thomas. Frank is ahead of Ichiro by a landslide at this point in time.

That's without talking about guys like Palmeiro, Brett, Baines, Ripken, Dawson, Jackson, Perez, etc.

soxfan13
04-17-2007, 11:45 AM
Depends on what you ask. I take guys like Ichiro and evaluate them on a very different scale than guys like Pujols because they are asked to do different things.

Ichiro gets evaluated with Tony Gwynn. He gets evaluated with Wade Boggs. He gets evaluated with Pete Rose.

And he is behind each one of them.

I love what he does. He would look awesome in our lineup, at the top of the order, in RF next season. He's amongst the top 10 of his ilk all-time. But he's nowhere near the impact player that it takes to be a Top 10 hitter of all time. He's got a lot of catching up to do just to be top 10 in the past 10 years, much less all-time.

Put it this way - off the top of my head, Ruth, Williams, Foxx, Gehrig, Mantle, Robinson, Ott, Kaline, Winfield, Musial, Mays, Murray, and Yaz all come ahead of Frank Thomas. Frank is ahead of Ichiro by a landslide at this point in time.

That's without talking about guys like Palmeiro, Brett, Baines, Ripken, Dawson, Jackson, Perez, etc.

If I am building a team from scratch and I have to take one of the four I think Ichiro would be my pick. Speed, defense, hit for average, hit for power, if he needs to. He started late but I think he has a shot at 3000 hits and HOF.

PatK
04-17-2007, 12:13 PM
Ichiro gets evaluated with Tony Gwynn. He gets evaluated with Wade Boggs. He gets evaluated with Pete Rose.

And he is behind each one of them.



He broke Boggs record for number of hits over a 6 year span.

chitownhawkfan
04-17-2007, 01:46 PM
If he retired now, nowhere. If he kept his numbers up for another 10 years, a marginal hall of famer - About on the same level as Craig Biggio.
A non hall of famer like Tim Raines has similar OPS and similar steals numbers as Ichiro.


You are kidding yourself to even be putting Biggio in his league, when its all said and done he might hold the all time hits record (between US and Japan). If this guy had a full major league career he would easily have been one of the top ten ever.

FireMariotti
04-17-2007, 08:32 PM
You also can't look past the fact that he set the trend for Japanese position players to try and make it in the big leagues. Before him, i don't think baseball scouts even realized the amount of talent that Japan had. They saw the country as one with a few good pitchers, and thats about it.

Stats aren't the only thing needed to make it in the HOF. I'm not saying that he did anything of Jackie Robinson-proportions, but he did Japanese players a service to take a risk over here.

D. TODD
04-18-2007, 09:12 AM
I would rank him somewhere between Bip Roberts & Ted Williams.:tongue:

Irishsox1
04-18-2007, 01:10 PM
Ichiro is a great hitter, a great runner (last year he stole 45 and was caught twice), a great fielder and has a great arm. I think Ichiro is the best lead off hitter since Rickey Henderson.

daveeym
04-18-2007, 01:35 PM
I just get the sense that those saying he hasn't done enough and he needs 8 more years of doing it also were against voting for him as ROY since he's played professionally for so long already.

TheVulture
04-20-2007, 02:41 PM
I would rank him somewhere between Bip Roberts & Ted Williams.:tongue:

Way to make a stand. I'll go, mmm, #79 all time.

Tragg
04-20-2007, 10:15 PM
You are kidding yourself to even be putting Biggio in his league, when its all said and done he might hold the all time hits record (between US and Japan). If this guy had a full major league career he would easily have been one of the top ten ever.

Ichiro has a career OPS 13 points better than Biggio - his OBP is .10 higher and his slg is .03 higher. Biggio hits more homers; Ichiro steals more, although Biggio has 400+ career steals. Plus Biggio has played major league baseball a lot longer. Biggio will reach 3,000 hits this season.

I don't think Biggio is some all time superstar by any means. Marginal hall of famer.
But Ichiro's numbers are only slightly better.

jabrch
04-20-2007, 11:31 PM
Ichiro has a career OPS 13 points better than Biggio

Ichiro's OPS is only slightly more relevant than Konerko's 40 Yard Dash time.

Tragg
04-21-2007, 12:04 AM
Ichiro's OPS is only slightly more relevant than Konerko's 40 Yard Dash time.

For elite hitters, OPS is an excellent measuring tool. It measures getting on base and power.

For 8 hole quality hitters, whose sole skill is advancing runners, perhaps there are other measures.

jabrch
04-21-2007, 09:13 AM
For elite hitters, OPS is an excellent measuring tool. It measures getting on base and power.

For 8 hole quality hitters, whose sole skill is advancing runners, perhaps there are other measures.

For a slap hitter, it factors in things that you aren't looking for from him.