PDA

View Full Version : *Official* 4/14/07 "It's too cold to hit" Postgame thread


JRIG
04-14-2007, 03:02 PM
Discuss...

MrX
04-14-2007, 03:03 PM
Hopefully Sabathia eats some bad cheeseburgers tonight.

MarySwiss
04-14-2007, 03:03 PM
Discuss...

I'd rather not, thanks. :(:

whitesoxfan
04-14-2007, 03:04 PM
Well, I would hope the bats start to get going as it heats up. Just a game of missed opportunities for us today. Sigh.

At least the Tigers are losing.

Jerko
04-14-2007, 03:05 PM
Not much to say after that one.

itsnotrequired
04-14-2007, 03:07 PM
Not much to say after that one.

About the only thing that can be said is another nice outing for Danks.

monkeypants
04-14-2007, 03:07 PM
I said it after Game 1 of the 2005 ALCS and I'll say it now.

We can't hit Paul mother****ing Byrd?!?!

DickAllen72
04-14-2007, 03:07 PM
If the Sox are to win the division, they are going to have to beat the teams in their division. So far Cleveland has their number.

cheezheadsoxfan
04-14-2007, 03:08 PM
Hopefully Jose will really be up for some pay back tomorrow.:mad:

Gammons Peter
04-14-2007, 03:10 PM
Hopefully Sabathia eats some bad cheeseburgers tonight.

probably wont matter, game very doubtful, more snow on the way

Navarro's Talent
04-14-2007, 03:11 PM
Rough game to watch. Danks has been pitching really well, and I'm very happy with what I've seen from him so far. He bounces back well from mistakes, in my opinion. I just wish the offense would start picking him up.

It was nice to Thome with some hits. He's doing better.

Beautox
04-14-2007, 03:11 PM
poor danks, pitches great no love.

what does darin bring to this team again? weak ground outs to 2b and pop ups to 3b? sweet.

CanBuehrleWait
04-14-2007, 03:13 PM
probably wont matter, game very doubtful, more snow on the way

How were hitting I hope it snows a foot:angry:

Pierzynski 12
04-14-2007, 03:13 PM
poor danks, pitches great no love.

what does darin bring to this team again? weak ground outs to 2b and pop ups to 3b? sweet.

Bringing your expert analysis from Sox Talk, i see. Anderson is so awesome, according to the experts there.:rolleyes:

Patrick134
04-14-2007, 03:13 PM
If the Sox are to win the division, they are going to have to beat the teams in their division. So far Cleveland has their number.


I wouldn't say being 2-3 against a good cleveland team as them "having the sox number". Time will tell on that one. I think by the end of the season it'll be one team with a 10-9 edge or so in the season series.

balke
04-14-2007, 03:14 PM
Pods is hitting the ball pretty well, too bad the batters behind him are all cold. Too many men left on base. They should've scored at least once today.

Beautox
04-14-2007, 03:17 PM
Bringing your expert analysis from Sox Talk, i see. Anderson is so awesome, according to the experts there.:rolleyes:

zomg you made a weak joke, nearly as weak as Darins ground outs. Did i even mention Brian? no i don't think i did. Keep sipping on that grinder koolaid and the intangibles.

Bring on the Tom Kelly era.

Corlose 15
04-14-2007, 03:17 PM
The offense REALLY needs to get going.

This team is pitching well and they aren't making much ground because of the pathetic offense.

itsnotrequired
04-14-2007, 03:20 PM
zomg you made a weak joke, nearly as weak as Darins ground outs. Did i even mention Brian? no i don't think i did. Keep sipping on that grinder koolaid and the intangibles.

Bring on the Tom Kelly era.

Ersatd has had three bad games in a row. His previous six were excellent. Are three games all you need to determine a player's worth?

So what were your thoughts on Dye hitting .175 through the end of April in 2005? Or Konerko starting out 1-13 last season?

chaerulez
04-14-2007, 03:20 PM
Erstad at the very least needs to start splitting more time with Anderson.

sox1970
04-14-2007, 03:22 PM
Hey...only 76 hours til the next game.

Beautox
04-14-2007, 03:22 PM
Ersatd has had three bad games in a row. His previous six were excellent. Are three games all you need to determine a player's worth?

So what were your thoughts on Dye hitting .175 through the end of April in 2005? Or Konerko starting out 1-13 last season?

glad you asked, unlike Darin, Dye has actually had an amazing season within the past 5 years, its nearly been a decade since Erstad brought something worthwhile to the table. Dyes last AB looked very good he took on a close pitch low and inside. Same applies for Paul.

Hitmen77
04-14-2007, 03:23 PM
Ok, i'll be the rare optimist.....seven good starts in a row by our starting pitching (if I'm counting correctly).

This team will score a lot of runs this year. In the end it'll all come down to our pitching - and I like what I see so far.

itsnotrequired
04-14-2007, 03:23 PM
Erstad at the very least needs to start splitting more time with Anderson.

I would have to imagine that Anderson gets the nod tomorrow against Sabathia.

Dan Mega
04-14-2007, 03:24 PM
Well that stunk! Danks still looks sharp.

Tragg
04-14-2007, 03:25 PM
Ersatd has had three bad games in a row. His previous six were excellent. Are three games all you need to determine a player's worth?

So what were your thoughts on Dye hitting .175 through the end of April in 2005? Or Konerko starting out 1-13 last season?
Those two have far higher mean production over their career than does Erstad. Erstad's reasonable ceiling is low. Even if he had a great year for him and hit .330 OBP, what would that add to this lineup that we didn't already have?

Plus we demoted a .348/16 homer hitter to make room for Erstad in the 2 hole.

But if Erstad produces 1/5 of what Dye or Konerko produced in 2005, I will be thrilled and shocked. But gladly eat crow I will.

chisoxmike
04-14-2007, 03:26 PM
Another Danks outing ruined. They didn't deserve to win this game, if you cant score one run off Paul ****ing Byrd.

ShoelessJoeS
04-14-2007, 03:28 PM
Very encouraging outing by Danks today... too bad the bats fell asleep at the wheel.

itsnotrequired
04-14-2007, 03:28 PM
Those two have far higher mean production over their career than does Erstad. Erstad's reasonable ceiling is low. Even if he had a great year for him and hit .330 OBP, what would that add to this lineup that we didn't already have?

Plus we demoted a .348/16 homer hitter to make room for Erstad in the 2 hole.

But if Erstad produces 1/5 of what Dye or Konerko produced in 2005, I will be thrilled and shocked. But gladly eat crow I will.

Who is this .348 hitter you speak of?

RockJock07
04-14-2007, 03:30 PM
I'll be an optimist when the White Sox start beating the teams they should be. Byrd and that bullpen on the mound today, 0 runs, patetic effort today.

Crede looks lost as does Erstad, to many guys are slumping right now. Ozzie needs to figure something out.

Pitching has been nothing short of outstanding, the hitters need to get their head of their asses. I'm getting sick of this cold weather excuse. Hit the **** ball!

Tragg
04-14-2007, 03:33 PM
Who is this .348 hitter you speak of?

Meant OBP. My mistake. Iguchi.
My preference is for him not to be in the lineup; but what I really don't understand is why he bats 2nd. Iguchi could do all of that bunting and stuff- and hit well.

BTW, is Thome just incapable these days of scoring from 2nd on a single, or was the one today just one of those that most wouldn't score on?

Beautox
04-14-2007, 03:33 PM
Who is this .348 hitter you speak of?

thats his OBP(iguchi), one of those new fangled billy beane propeller head stats, that means nothing for people who get on infront of hitters that pump out 30+HRs a season.

palehozenychicty
04-14-2007, 03:33 PM
I'm glad that I didn't have to watch. To not hit Paul Byrd is inexcusable. He's not a good pitcher.

whitesoxfan
04-14-2007, 03:37 PM
thats his OBP(iguchi), one of those new fangled billy beane propeller head stats, that means nothing for people who get on infront of hitters that pump out 30+HRs a season.

I think everyone knows that OBP is an important stat, well before Billy Beane started spouting his bull****.

itsnotrequired
04-14-2007, 03:37 PM
Meant OBP. My mistake. Iguchi.
My preference is for him not to be in the lineup; but what I really don't understand is why he bats 2nd. Iguchi could do all of that bunting and stuff- and hit well.

I don't recall anyone calling for Erstad's head four games ago. If Erstad continues to struggle, than a change may be in order. But it isn't like Iguchi is tearing the cover off the ball either. If they swapped, what advantage does Erstad bring lower in the order?

thats his OBP(iguchi), one of those new fangled billy beane propeller head stats, that means nothing for people who get on infront of hitters that pump out 30+HRs a season.

I don't even know what this is supposed to mean.

soxfan13
04-14-2007, 03:38 PM
Meant OBP. My mistake. Iguchi.
My preference is for him not to be in the lineup; but what I really don't understand is why he bats 2nd. Iguchi could do all of that bunting and stuff- and hit well.

BTW, is Thome just incapable these days of scoring from 2nd on a single, or was the one today just one of those that most wouldn't score on?


That ball was hit a little too sharply. I think alot of players woulod have had trouble scoring on that.

itsnotrequired
04-14-2007, 03:39 PM
I'm glad that I didn't have to watch. To not hit Paul Byrd is inexcusable. He's not a good pitcher.

The Sox hit a pathetic .190 against Byrd at Jacob's Field last season (one game).

brewcrew/chisox
04-14-2007, 03:39 PM
Ersatd has had three bad games in a row. His previous six were excellent. Are three games all you need to determine a player's worth?

So what were your thoughts on Dye hitting .175 through the end of April in 2005? Or Konerko starting out 1-13 last season?

I judge a career on determining a player's worth...Erstad's is average at best. Outside of one year when he had 240 hits and possibly another, he is an average player...http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs.aspx?playerid=11&position=CF&page=0&type=full

Not the kind of player worth the Bouquets of roses thrown at his feet so often on this web site and in the media.

Oh, but he's a grinder

BanditJimmy
04-14-2007, 03:39 PM
Offenseive numbers are down throughout baseball, only problem is that the Sox are near the bottom.

As much as I do want tell my self that our offense will score runs in bunches once the weather gets warm, you almost have to think the same about the oppostion scoring runs against us too. So odds are that or pitching is being succesful right now because of the same reason our offense sucks --- COLD WEATHER.

whitesoxfan
04-14-2007, 03:41 PM
Offenseive numbers are down throughout baseball, only problem is that the Sox are near the bottom.

As much as I do want tell my self that our offense will score runs in bunches once the weather gets warm, you almost have to think the same about the oppostion scoring runs against us too. So odds are that or pitching is being succesful right now because of the same reason our offense sucks --- COLD WEATHER.

Well, our pitching was rock solid against Oakland, where it was pretty warm.

itsnotrequired
04-14-2007, 03:46 PM
I judge a career on determining a player's worth...Erstad's is average at best. Outside of one year when he had 240 hits and possibly another, he is an average player...http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs.aspx?playerid=11&position=CF&page=0&type=full

Not the kind of player worth the Bouquets of roses thrown at his feet so often on this web site and in the media.

Oh, but he's a grinder

I never claimed he was some kind of super-star. He is an average player earning average pay. He's only making $1 million this season and so far, is earning what he is worth.

My point is that last week, people were raving about Erstad and after three bad games, people think he should be benched.

markopat
04-14-2007, 03:50 PM
Geez...I guess the game time was moved up...glad I missed this one.

Let's get them bats going!

DrGozzie
04-14-2007, 03:52 PM
What a bummer. Nothing much else to say. Except that I'm sick of never seeing Brian play, grrr!

esbrechtel
04-14-2007, 03:57 PM
I'll be an optimist when the White Sox start beating the teams they should be. Byrd and that bullpen on the mound today, 0 runs, patetic effort today.

Crede looks lost as does Erstad, to many guys are slumping right now. Ozzie needs to figure something out.

Pitching has been nothing short of outstanding, the hitters need to get their head of their asses. I'm getting sick of this cold weather excuse. Hit the **** ball!

Crede had 3 hits last night! What more can you ask for? During that first series against the tribe Erstad was the only guy who played well, he also played well against the twins (one game he reached base 4 times!) He has 3 or 4 SB already and has played pretty hard thus far...He has had 2 bad games and a mediocre game give him a break....

brewcrew/chisox
04-14-2007, 03:58 PM
I never claimed he was some kind of super-star. He is an average player earning average pay. He's only making $1 million this season and so far, is earning what he is worth.

My point is that last week, people were raving about Erstad and after three bad games, people think he should be benched.

Yeah, I got you. I think 'raving' about Erstad on any side of the fence will get one in trouble, as he just isn't the type of player with that kind of career. Lately, all I've been hearing from the Ranger on Sox pregame is how he plays the game the right way, how he does all the little things, and I'm thinking to myself, "What is with all of the hype?" This is Darin Erstad we are talking about. I've just never been impressed, and so far (and I know that it has only been a couple of weeks), I still prefer Iguchi in the 2 hole to Erstad. I really didn't see Iguchi's performance as the glaring hole on this team from last year.

I will say this: So far, Erstad has played a solid center field, and does not seem to show the ill effects of his injuries, as he already has a few stolen basis and seems to be moving pretty well out there.

getonbckthr
04-14-2007, 04:01 PM
From the get-go I thought Erstad was a mistake. I'm sorry Anderson could have been producing the same results as Erstad at worst. The difference one is in the 2nd year and the other is a past his prime veteran. Next what is up with Iguchi this year so far? I'm not only talking about his bat but in the field as well. Almost like he doesn't want to be there. Get your head out of your ass son. Finally does anyone else see a problem with this lineup: L,L,L,R,R,R,L,R,R. If they feel the need to play Erstad everyday flip flop Thome and Konerko. We are saving teams arms in their bullpen in this format. Not to mention letting pitchers get comfortable with the zone. It doesn't seem like much but you would be surprised how it could affect a pitcher with alternating lefties and righties opposed consecutive lefties then consecutive righties.

itsnotrequired
04-14-2007, 04:02 PM
Finally does anyone else see a problem with this lineup: L,L,L,R,R,R,L,R,R. If they feel the need to play Erstad everyday flip flop Thome and Konerko.

The Sox have swapped them twice already this season.

soxfan13
04-14-2007, 04:03 PM
The Sox have swapped them twice already this season.

Well thats not enough:tongue:

RockJock07
04-14-2007, 04:08 PM
Crede had 3 hits last night, great, but overall has stuck out in key situations, includeding today. Erstad also let his team down today and is 1-19 since the last Twin game. That's awful. I'm not saying bench him cause i'd rather see a weakass ground ball from darin rather then BA swinging and missing 4 times again.

But my statement of Crede and Erstad looking lost at the plate was right on

russ99
04-14-2007, 04:13 PM
I'm glad that I didn't have to watch. To not hit Paul Byrd is inexcusable. He's not a good pitcher.

The Sox couldn't lay off Byrd's low pitches. That made a mediocre pitcher into a good one. Plus, hitting in that cold certainly isn't fun. The Sox certainly had their chances today, butwe can hope for a series win tomorrow. It will be a close one, so hopefully the Sox can grind a few runs and hold 'em.

Bad batting averages is a team-wide problem. If I were Ozzie & Greg, I'd get the team into the cages either this afternoon or tomorrow morning.

Still, I expect the Sox to hit much better when the weather gets above 40 F.

southsideirish71
04-14-2007, 04:18 PM
The Sox couldn't lay off Byrd's low pitches. That made a mediocre pitcher into a good one. Plus, hitting in that cold certainly isn't fun. The Sox certainly had their chances today, butwe can hope for a series win tomorrow. It will be a close one, so hopefully the Sox can grind a few runs and hold 'em.

Bad batting averages is a team-wide problem. If I were Ozzie & Greg, I'd get the team into the cages either this afternoon or tomorrow morning.

Still, I expect the Sox to hit much better when the weather gets above 40 F.

So they will hit better when it gets warmer. Sounds like Pinella.

How about this, lets not take huge long looping home run cuts with 2 strikes and men on the corners with less than 2 outs. A line drive contact approach does work. Ask the Indians today who decided to hit oppo most of the day, taking advantage of hiting away pitching. Our hitters were dong their best Jose Valentin and Carlos Lee situational hitting impersonation.

WizardsofOzzie
04-14-2007, 04:24 PM
Wow, lots of Erstad hating here today. I don't get why everyone is screaming that Erstad is a poor #2 hitter when his offensive #'s are better than Iguchi's (earlier this afternoon. Don't know if they changed after Iguchi's single in the 9th). Iguchi has been horrible at moving the runners over recently and even last year couldn't get the bunt down. Erstad will be fine as will the rest of the team. Get off the ledge

NSSoxFan
04-14-2007, 04:27 PM
Wow, lots of Erstad hating here today. I don't get why everyone is screaming that Erstad is a poor #2 hitter when his offensive #'s are better than Iguchi's (earlier this afternoon. Don't know if they changed after Iguchi's single in the 9th). Iguchi has been horrible at moving the runners over recently and even last year couldn't get the bunt down. Erstad will be fine as will the rest of the team. Get off the ledge

Stop being rational! That is not allowed here.

Corlose 15
04-14-2007, 04:29 PM
I'd just like to see Anderson start a couple games here since Erstad if scuffling. It helped JD get going, you might as well see what Anderson has so far. It can't be anyworse than Erstad is doing right now.


This isn't hating on Erstad.

TheOldRoman
04-14-2007, 04:45 PM
Gee, that Paul Byrd is really something special.

Same old ****. Sox run into a bad pitcher on a day when he doesn't have his best stuff, chase bad pitches, get dominated, and waste a decent pitching effort. I need a beer.

MarySwiss
04-14-2007, 04:46 PM
Ok, i'll be the rare optimist.....seven good starts in a row by our starting pitching (if I'm counting correctly).

This team will score a lot of runs this year. In the end it'll all come down to our pitching - and I like what I see so far.

You are not alone. I'm very happy--for the most part--with our pitchers. So far, our hitters aren't getting the job done, but no doubt we will be right there at the end of the year. Make that the end of October.

itsnotrequired
04-14-2007, 05:07 PM
Crede had 3 hits last night, great, but overall has stuck out in key situations, includeding today. Erstad also let his team down today and is 1-19 since the last Twin game. That's awful. I'm not saying bench him cause i'd rather see a weakass ground ball from darin rather then BA swinging and missing 4 times again.

But my statement of Crede and Erstad looking lost at the plate was right on

Coming into today, Crede was hitting .333 with RISP, third behind Uribe (.429) and Thome (.400). This is struggling?

SoxxoS
04-14-2007, 05:21 PM
I am very happy where the Sox are this season...the pitching has been performing well, and the kinks will get ironed out over time - Its a marathon, not a sprint.

In late June, we might see Anderson starting everyday and Thornton closing. Those things will work themselves out.

And the offense is proven and full of annual slow starters...it sucks, but the offense is the least of the worries.b

getonbckthr
04-14-2007, 05:34 PM
Wow, lots of Erstad hating here today. I don't get why everyone is screaming that Erstad is a poor #2 hitter when his offensive #'s are better than Iguchi's (earlier this afternoon. Don't know if they changed after Iguchi's single in the 9th). Iguchi has been horrible at moving the runners over recently and even last year couldn't get the bunt down. Erstad will be fine as will the rest of the team. Get off the ledge
Erstad 6-34 .176 average with a .256 OBP.
He is 1-21 his last 6 games. Tell me at this point of the season Brian wouldn't at minimum be at least matching those numbers.

slobes
04-14-2007, 05:47 PM
Ehhh that sucked

CLR01
04-14-2007, 05:48 PM
Erstad 6-34 .176 average with a .256 OBP.
He is 1-21 his last 6 games. Tell me at this point of the season Brian wouldn't at minimum be at least matching those numbers.

And the haters would be all over him.

itsnotrequired
04-14-2007, 05:50 PM
Erstad 6-34 .176 average with a .256 OBP.
He is 1-21 his last 6 games. Tell me at this point of the season Brian wouldn't at minimum be at least matching those numbers.

Okay and how was he in the first five? .294 with a .400 OBP, 3 BB, 2 SB (0 CS) and no strikeouts. He could very well just be in a funk right now. Compare his numbers to someone like Iguchi who has struggled all season (has yet to have an average over .222).

churlish
04-14-2007, 05:52 PM
Eh, people are overreacting a bit here. Nearly every hitter is slumping to start the season. The team is struggling to score runs, and yet the Sox are 5-5. If anything, it's hard not to be optimistic when guys like Iguchi, Crede, Konerko (the list goes on) start hitting at their career norms, which will be happening soon.

getonbckthr
04-14-2007, 05:56 PM
Okay and how was he in the first five? .294 with a .400 OBP, 3 BB, 2 SB (0 CS) and no strikeouts. He could very well just be in a funk right now. Compare his numbers to someone like Iguchi who has struggled all season (has yet to have an average over .222).
Answer me this question where would Anderson be if he got the amount of at bats that Erstad has? Now what would you prefer a 2nd year player maturing or a past his prime veteran contributing the same numbers? Personally give me the kid at least the upside is there.

Corlose 15
04-14-2007, 06:02 PM
Folks, its faaaaaar to early to determine the Erstad aquisition a bust. We're talking about 9 starts for him? Lets have a little bit of perspective here. Also its not like they're paying him an outrageous contract.

The starters are doing very well and the bullpen has been solid the only problem thus far is the offense and while its frustrating its going to improve.

I'd just like to see Anderson start a couple games to see what he has since right now Erstad is doing practically nothing. Its not a knock on Erstad its just a desire to see BA play. Giving JD the day off worked for him lets see if taking a game or two off helps Erstad clear his head.

itsnotrequired
04-14-2007, 06:03 PM
Answer me this question where would Anderson be if he got the amount of at bats that Erstad has? Now what would you prefer a 2nd year player maturing or a past his prime veteran contributing the same numbers? Personally give me the kid at least the upside is there.

There is absolutly no way to know what Anderson would have done had he started the season instead of Erstad. A comparison between the two is meaningless.

What is known for certain is that Erstad started the season very hot so there was no need to reaplce him with Anderson. He now has four bad games in a row. Will the funk continue? Beats me.

hawkjt
04-14-2007, 06:36 PM
obviously , Pods and juan are the only guys getting it done offensively so far. No need to single out erstad- AJ has been worse than him, the others about the same.

byrd was the only angels pitcher to beat us in the 05 ALCS. why we have problems with him defys logic. I swear , I could hit this guy. the ball just sits there on a tee at 84 mph.

Danks showed some more good stuff. He has yet to have a single run scored for him while he is in a game so he must wonder what all the fuss is about regarding the sox powerful offense. kid just keeps going out there and throwing strikes.

garko is the new sweeney , it appears. throw at his head, somebody.

getonbckthr
04-14-2007, 06:39 PM
Folks, its faaaaaar to early to determine the Erstad aquisition a bust. We're talking about 9 starts for him? Lets have a little bit of perspective here. Also its not like they're paying him an outrageous contract.

The starters are doing very well and the bullpen has been solid the only problem thus far is the offense and while its frustrating its going to improve.

I'd just like to see Anderson start a couple games to see what he has since right now Erstad is doing practically nothing. Its not a knock on Erstad its just a desire to see BA play. Giving JD the day off worked for him lets see if taking a game or two off helps Erstad clear his head.
Everything does not revolve around what a guy is getting paid. Based on your comment a guy getting paid the bare minimum should only contribute the minimum. And yes they are only paying in physical dollars 1 million to Erstad but what they doing is stealing from Brian the oppertunity to develop and mature into the ball player he, based on what he has done at every other level, has shown he has the promise to become.

getonbckthr
04-14-2007, 06:48 PM
obviously , Pods and juan are the only guys getting it done offensively so far. No need to single out erstad- AJ has been worse than him, the others about the same.

byrd was the only angels pitcher to beat us in the 05 ALCS. why we have problems with him defys logic. I swear , I could hit this guy. the ball just sits there on a tee at 84 mph.

Danks showed some more good stuff. He has yet to have a single run scored for him while he is in a game so he must wonder what all the fuss is about regarding the sox powerful offense. kid just keeps going out there and throwing strikes.

garko is the new sweeney , it appears. throw at his head, somebody.
Sorry for the colors guys I don't know how to seperate the quotes but I wanted to comment on each part seperately.

Why i'm singliing out Erstad is that guys like Paulie, Thome, Dye and AJ are your nucleus you live and die with them. With Erstad there is a player at his same position except 10-15 years younger, cheaper and with more upside and was also the starter last year that is being deprived the oppertunity to grow and mature into a MLB player. If I have a choice to which guy is gonna give me the performances we have gotten from CF this year I want it to be the kid and not the veteran.
As far as Byrd the only thing I can assume, and is why I hate the idea of JoeBo as their closer against us, is that are hitters are so good and powerful that they see a guy that in all reality we should have no problem pounding and we get over excited and end up striking out or hitting weak grounders and such.
I am not concerned about the lack of run support for Danks. At some point this season Danks will throw a game or 2 where his stuff just isn't there but our lineup will manage to out-score the opposition.
Classy.

RockJock07
04-14-2007, 06:56 PM
I like the pick up of Erstad, But in the last few games all I've seen from the Sox is fouling off a bunch of pitches, players taking fastballs down the middle of the plate, A.J. hitting a slow roller to 2nd and it's all just compounding to make me mad.

Erstad will probably end up hitting .270 15 HR and 65 RBI which is fine as long as he helps by doing the little things, which he's being doing, but when we need a big hit, no one has come through.

As far as crede goes, his BA with RISP stat is meaningless because both of his RBI's came in one game, on one swing. His swing looks long. His OBP is .275, with only 2 walks this season, take a pitch Joe.

I'm not all doom and gloom, but when you have byrd on the mound and that awful bullpen you should never get shutout. I think this team can be very good, but they need to start hitting an picking up their pitchers.

gaelhound
04-14-2007, 06:57 PM
Another Danks outing ruined. They didn't deserve to win this game, if you cant score one run off Paul ****ing Byrd.I am confused. It seems that Paul Byrd has a middle name, yet no one will print it without hiding behind the asterisks. Then the guy scheduled to pitch for Cleveland tommorrow has two unutterable names, so shameful that he uses only his initials.

DrGozzie
04-14-2007, 07:21 PM
Why i'm singliing out Erstad is that guys like Paulie, Thome, Dye and AJ are your nucleus you live and die with them. With Erstad there is a player at his same position except 10-15 years younger, cheaper and with more upside and was also the starter last year that is being deprived the oppertunity to grow and mature into a MLB player. If I have a choice to which guy is gonna give me the performances we have gotten from CF this year I want it to be the kid and not the veteran. Whoops - edited to show the above was a quote from getonbckthr.

My response is:


ITA.

FedEx227
04-14-2007, 07:24 PM
I've been in enough Erstad vs. Anderson arguments, and most people can tell my stance on the situation (you don't have to look far).

But honestly, if Anderson had a string of games this bad would he still be in the lineup? Anderson didn't have room for a 2 strikeout game last year without being glued to the bench the next day.

getonbckthr
04-14-2007, 07:28 PM
Why i'm singliing out Erstad is that guys like Paulie, Thome, Dye and AJ are your nucleus you live and die with them. With Erstad there is a player at his same position except 10-15 years younger, cheaper and with more upside and was also the starter last year that is being deprived the oppertunity to grow and mature into a MLB player. If I have a choice to which guy is gonna give me the performances we have gotten from CF this year I want it to be the kid and not the veteran. Whoops - edited to show the above was a quote from getonbckthr.

My response is:


ITA.
?????

DrGozzie
04-14-2007, 07:36 PM
Getonbckthr - ITA means I totally agree.

Frontman
04-14-2007, 07:36 PM
Wait, its Erstad's fault that Paulie, Jermaine, Jim, Joe, AJ, and Iguchi all forgot how to drive in runs? (I'd blame him for Scotty's recent string of bad at-bats, but Pods already takes and gets blamed for that. As well as global warming and inflation.) Back to Erstad, man what a jerk! We should be calling for him to be benched!

You can't point at any one player (or manager, put down the pitchforks and torches, Ozzie haters) for a team hitting subpar in cold temperatures. The team as a whole did fine in Oakland. Here at home and in Cleveland? Not so much.

As far as hating on Erstad, I'm sorry. 9 games does NOT make him a bust. His "squirmy worm" move to get around the tag yesterday was a VETERAN move. BA would of lucky to have even been on base, much less had the opportunity to steal. (No teal required.)

I'm glad to see Danks hanging in there. If this team could get up off the deck and finally score a few runs while the kid is on the mound, he might be even better as a pitcher, given he'd have a bit of wiggle room.

DrGozzie
04-14-2007, 07:47 PM
Just to clarify, I'm not an Erstad hater. I just hate seeing BA not getting hardly ANY playing time at all. It doesn't seem fair at all, esp. since he's so young with such a bright future. I will admit I thought that squiggly worm slide was just great!

getonbckthr
04-14-2007, 07:49 PM
Wait, its Erstad's fault that Paulie, Jermaine, Jim, Joe, AJ, and Iguchi all forgot how to drive in runs? (I'd blame him for Scotty's recent string of bad at-bats, but Pods already takes and gets blamed for that. As well as global warming and inflation.) Back to Erstad, man what a jerk! We should be calling for him to be benched!

You can't point at any one player (or manager, put down the pitchforks and torches, Ozzie haters) for a team hitting subpar in cold temperatures. The team as a whole did fine in Oakland. Here at home and in Cleveland? Not so much.

As far as hating on Erstad, I'm sorry. 9 games does NOT make him a bust. His "squirmy worm" move to get around the tag yesterday was a VETERAN move. BA would of lucky to have even been on base, much less had the opportunity to steal. (No teal required.)

I'm glad to see Danks hanging in there. If this team could get up off the deck and finally score a few runs while the kid is on the mound, he might be even better as a pitcher, given he'd have a bit of wiggle room.
When did I ever blame him for everyone elses struggles? I simply said he was a wasted signing and that we are better off with Anderson.

Frontman
04-14-2007, 07:52 PM
When did I ever blame him for everyone elses struggles? I simply said he was a wasted signing and that we are better off with Anderson.

So, if Anderson was in today's game, all the rest of the players would of gotten hits?

I don't think so. The team hasn't come out of this "it's too cold" funk and get to playing ball yet. Erstad didn't cost us today's game. He didn't do anything to help win it either mind you, but he didn't cost us the game.

FedEx227
04-14-2007, 07:55 PM
So, if Anderson was in today's game, all the rest of the players would of gotten hits?

I don't think so. The team hasn't come out of this "it's too cold" funk and get to playing ball yet. Erstad didn't cost us today's game. He didn't do anything to help win it either mind you, but he didn't cost us the game.

Nobody is saying he cost the game today, they are talking purely from a production stand-point, that what we are getting from Erstad, the gritty veteran is relativeily the same production we would most likely be getting from Anderson, therefore it seems odd that Anderson's been stunk on the bench.

getonbckthr
04-14-2007, 07:59 PM
So, if Anderson was in today's game, all the rest of the players would of gotten hits?

I don't think so. The team hasn't come out of this "it's too cold" funk and get to playing ball yet. Erstad didn't cost us today's game. He didn't do anything to help win it either mind you, but he didn't cost us the game.
I was not talking about the rest of the team I am simply discussing Erstad/Anderson.

itsnotrequired
04-14-2007, 08:45 PM
Nobody is saying he cost the game today, they are talking purely from a production stand-point, that what we are getting from Erstad, the gritty veteran is relativeily the same production we would most likely be getting from Anderson, therefore it seems odd that Anderson's been stunk on the bench.

This would be a valid point if Erstad had just been plodding along season. But he hasn't. His first six games were excellent but his last four have been terrible. A .176 average doesn't tell the whole story of his season. This would be like seeing a pitcher's 4.50 ERA and assuming he sucks without recognizing that one horrendous outing skews the numbers. He might be a 3.00 ERA pitcher in his other outings.

To put it another way, Iguchi is batting .208 this season. Is he having a better season than Erstad? I remember things Erstad has done so far (i.e. Opening Day home run, the game with three walks, etc.) but can't recall anything very memorable about Iguchi.

jabrch
04-14-2007, 08:54 PM
Danks has had two starts - both excellent. That's great to see from your rookie 5th starter who was not even supposed to be pitching at this level until next year.

I wish we'd have hit the ball a bit and won today - but I saw enough from Danks to be happy with the outcome despite not winning.

southsideirish71
04-14-2007, 08:55 PM
Wait, its Erstad's fault that Paulie, Jermaine,

You can't point at any one player (or manager, put down the pitchforks and torches, Ozzie haters) for a team hitting subpar in cold temperatures. The team as a whole did fine in Oakland. Here at home and in Cleveland? Not so much.


Maybe its not the temps.

Actually we didnt hit all that well in Oakland, we hit .221 as a team in Oakland. We just happened to pitch our brains out and hold Oakland to hitting .174 against us. Our team needs a better approach when the get a duck on the pond.

CLR01
04-14-2007, 08:58 PM
This would be a valid point if Erstad had just been plodding along season. But he hasn't. His first six games were excellent but his last four have been terrible.

You got that backwards. His last six he is 3/21 with 6 strikeouts, 1 walk, 1 RBI and a lot of weak groundouts to second. His first 4 good games is really 3 of his first 4 as his 3rd game was another 0/4 performance.

voodoochile
04-14-2007, 08:59 PM
Hang in there, Danks. Keep throwing those good outings, you'll get your wins...

CLR01
04-14-2007, 08:59 PM
Danks has had two starts - both excellent. That's great to see from your rookie 5th starter who was not even supposed to be pitching at this level until next year.

I wish we'd have hit the ball a bit and won today - but I saw enough from Danks to be happy with the outcome despite not winning.

I am really liking what I am seeing of Danks right now and I am really glad he got the nod over Floyd.

southsideirish71
04-14-2007, 09:03 PM
I am really liking what I am seeing of Danks right now and I am really glad he got the nod over Floyd.

Danks is doing something that previous 5th starter young candidates didnt. He trusts his stuff. Throw it for strikes and make them hit his pitches. Our previous disasters at 5th, used to walk a bunch of people and then finally throw a pitch over the middle of the plate that plated 4. Danks is about challenging them.

Jerko
04-14-2007, 09:04 PM
The weather doesn't seem to be bothering Ty Garko or Honus Sizemore any. That's a copout. Both teams played 4 games in the ****ty weather and are 2-2 in those games. Tribe kicked our asses the worst the day it was nice out. We'll be fine. Minny's starters, Cleveland's bullpen, and Detroit's, well, Detroit-ness will fail them before this LONG season ends..

itsnotrequired
04-14-2007, 09:05 PM
You got that backwards. His last six he is 3/21 with 6 strikeouts, 1 walk, 1 RBI and a lot of weak groundouts to second. His first 4 good games is really 3 of his first 4 as his 3rd game was another 0/4 performance.

In the first Oakland game, he was 1-3 with a sacrifice. Seems acceptable to me. Even with the 0-4 performance in that last Cleveland game at home, he was still batting .300 after the sixth game. I grouped the games as six good/four bad far simplicity.

CLR01
04-14-2007, 09:07 PM
Danks is doing something that previous 5th starter young candidates didnt. He trusts his stuff. Throw it for strikes and make them hit his pitches. Our previous disasters at 5th, used to walk a bunch of people and then finally throw a pitch over the middle of the plate that plated 4. Danks is about challenging them.


That is really all you need to say about him. Why does it seem that all of the pitchers who have come up in the Sox system the last few years failed to do just that?

Grzegorz
04-14-2007, 09:07 PM
I simply said he was a wasted signing and that we are better off with Anderson.

He's a great hedge against injury to Konerko. He'll be valuable to spell him at first base too. It looks as if he has his legs so he should be fine. Are the Chicago White Sox better off with BA? I'd say yes provided that Erstad is there to back up BA in the event he doesn't hit.

I certainly would like BA to prove one way or the other whether he belongs on this major league roster as a starter.

getonbckthr
04-14-2007, 09:08 PM
This would be a valid point if Erstad had just been plodding along season. But he hasn't. His first six games were excellent but his last four have been terrible. A .176 average doesn't tell the whole story of his season. This would be like seeing a pitcher's 4.50 ERA and assuming he sucks without recognizing that one horrendous outing skews the numbers. He might be a 3.00 ERA pitcher in his other outings.

To put it another way, Iguchi is batting .208 this season. Is he having a better season than Erstad? I remember things Erstad has done so far (i.e. Opening Day home run, the game with three walks, etc.) but can't recall anything very memorable about Iguchi.
Game 1: 1-4 hr 2rbi's
Game 2: 2-2 2 runs 3 walks 2 sb's
Game 3: 0-4
Game 4: 2-3 1 run scored
Game 5: 0-4
Game 6: 1-3 2 K's
Game 7: 0-4
Game 8: 0-1 1 RBI 1 K
Game 9: 0-4 1 BB 2 K's 1 SB
Game 10: 0-5
I'm failing to see where his first 6 games were so great. Games 2 and 4 were good. Game 1 even though he hit a 2 run homer still went only 1-4. So out of the 10 he had 2 good games, 2 ok games and 6 hitless games (granted 1 he only had 1 at bat)

CLR01
04-14-2007, 09:12 PM
In the first Oakland game, he was 1-3 with a sacrifice. Seems acceptable to me. Even with the 0-4 performance in that last Cleveland game at home, he was still batting .300 after the sixth game. I grouped the games as six good/four bad far simplicity.

So even though he went 0 for the day it's ok because his average was still high enough to be above .300 for the day?

Simple or not it's not accurate.

getonbckthr
04-14-2007, 09:13 PM
He's a great hedge against injury to Konerko. He'll be valuable to spell him at first base too. It looks as if he has his legs so he should be fine. Are the Chicago White Sox better off with BA? I'd say yes provided that Erstad is there to back up BA in the event he doesn't hit.

I certainly would like BA to prove one way or the other whether he belongs on this major league rosters as a starter.
Couldn't whats the guys name, I think it was Eduardo Perez helped as
PK's backup?

southsideirish71
04-14-2007, 09:14 PM
My point of contention of the Anderson situation, if you dont want to play him, you dont want to use him for defense late in games then why isnt he in AAA getting better and Eduardo Perez on the team to help us hit lefties better. Having Perez to hit against lefties and as a pinch hitter off the bench to go against a Loogy means more for this team than what we are doing right now which is to have Anderson as a once a week starter.

FedEx227
04-14-2007, 09:15 PM
So even though he went 0 for the day it's ok because his average was still high enough to be above .300 for the day?

Simple or not it's not accurate.

He's also not getting quite as many walks as many people were hoping to see. .294 on-base percentage is NOT pretty. Add in the fact that he has zero extra base hits (outside of the game 1 homer).

But I'm willing to give it a bit of time, 9 games is way too small of a sample-size to completely judge the signing.

getonbckthr
04-14-2007, 09:17 PM
My point of contention of the Anderson situation, if you dont want to play him, you dont want to use him for defense late in games then why isnt he in AAA getting better and Eduardo Perez on the team to help us hit lefties better. Having Perez to hit against lefties and as a pinch hitter off the bench to go against a Loogy means more for this team than what we are doing right now which is to have Anderson as a once a week starter.
Agree. I could have been fine with BA starting in CF with Perez on the bench and no Erstad on the team at all. As far as CF backup it would be Pods in such a situation if BA needed a day or 2 off with Pablo and Rob sharing LF for the time being.

getonbckthr
04-14-2007, 09:20 PM
He's also not getting quite as many walks as many people were hoping to see. .294 on-base percentage is NOT pretty. Add in the fact that he has zero extra base hits (outside of the game 1 homer).

But I'm willing to give it a bit of time, 9 games is way too small of a sample-size to completely judge the signing.
We shouldn't have even given 9 games. Bottom line he shouldn't have been the starter. If they wanted him on the team as a backup to PK at 1st and the whole OF that would have been fine.

Grzegorz
04-14-2007, 09:22 PM
Couldn't whats the guys name, I think it was Eduardo Perez helped as
PK's backup?

Yes, but he couldn't help as far as being BA's backup. Erstad is versatile, Perez is not. Erstad can slip in and out of two positions comfortably.

FedEx227
04-14-2007, 09:22 PM
We shouldn't have even given 9 games. Bottom line he shouldn't have been the starter. If they wanted him on the team as a backup to PK at 1st and the whole OF that would have been fine.

Oh trust me, I agree. But I was just using the sample-size as a reference to me using his on-base percentage, for me to use OBP as a determinant after nine games isn't exactly full-proof.

getonbckthr
04-14-2007, 09:24 PM
Yes, but he couldn't help as far as being BA's backup. Erstad is versatile, Perez is not. Erstad can slip in and out of two positions comfortably.
Ya but Pods is perfectly capable of being BA's backup in CF with Rob, Pablo, Sweeney and to an extent Fields as an option in LF with Pods in CF.
Oh trust me, I agree. But I was just using the sample-size as a reference to me using his on-base percentage, for me to use OBP as a determinant after nine games isn't exactly full-proof.
Ahhh I see I see.

CLR01
04-14-2007, 09:25 PM
My point of contention of the Anderson situation, if you dont want to play him, you dont want to use him for defense late in games then why isnt he in AAA getting better and Eduardo Perez on the team to help us hit lefties better. Having Perez to hit against lefties and as a pinch hitter off the bench to go against a Loogy means more for this team than what we are doing right now which is to have Anderson as a once a week starter.

What did I miss about Perez? Is one guy, with a career .265 average against lefties, really the missing link?

Grzegorz
04-14-2007, 09:29 PM
Ya but Pods is perfectly capable of being BA's backup in CF with Rob, Pablo, Sweeney and to an extent Fields as an option in LF with Pods in CF.



I respectfully disagree...

Podsednik never was in the class of center fielder that Erstad was. This same statement holds for those two in the present.

I'd bet that Erstad is better defensively than Rob, Pablo, or Fields. As for Sweeney, he would never see left field on my team. If Sweeney sticks it is Dye to left and Sweeney in right.

itsnotrequired
04-14-2007, 09:33 PM
So even though he went 0 for the day it's ok because his average was still high enough to be above .300 for the day?

Simple or not it's not accurate.

.300 across six games is good. Their may be individual games in the set that are bad but on the whole, it is still a good performance. It is never "okay" to go 0-X in a game but the fact is it is going to happen to even the best players. The best one can hope for is to minimize the occurances.

But I'm willing to give it a bit of time, 9 games is way too small of a sample-size to completely judge the signing.

This is the key statement to this whole situation. It is still to early to tell, one way or the other.

We shouldn't have even given 9 games. Bottom line he shouldn't have been the starter. If they wanted him on the team as a backup to PK at 1st and the whole OF that would have been fine.

I envisioned Erstad being the 4th outfielder as well but for whatever reason, Ozzie gave him the nod on Opening Day...and he performed like a champ. Erstad could have moved over to left to allow Anderson to get more time but with Pods playing so well, that really wasn't an option either. I suppose Erstad could have moved to right but he really doesn't have the arm for it and no one really wants to see Dye benched.

Anderson will get the start tomorrow. We'll see how he does...

Frontman
04-14-2007, 09:35 PM
Nobody is saying he cost the game today, they are talking purely from a production stand-point, that what we are getting from Erstad, the gritty veteran is relativeily the same production we would most likely be getting from Anderson, therefore it seems odd that Anderson's been stunk on the bench.

For one week out of the season. It's a long season. Every one of the players will stink at least one week out of the season, its the nature of baseball. Erstad also not only knows how to take a pitch, but he also knows how to run the bases. Two aspects of baseball he's better than Anderson is.

But as far as questions as to why BA isn't in the game; its because Ozzie soured on the kid. And while I agree that if you're not going to use him at all (one game so far) I would send him to AAA and let him play. Get someone who can actually hit up here in his place, the team becomes that much better.

CLR01
04-14-2007, 09:44 PM
.300 across six games is good. Their may be individual games in the set that are bad but on the whole, it is still a good performance. It is never "okay" to go 0-X in a game but the fact is it is going to happen to even the best players. The best one can hope for is to minimize the occurances.

0-for games are still bad games regardless of what flanks them and to date he's had 5 of them with a 0-1 with a K and a SF sprinkled in.

getonbckthr
04-14-2007, 09:51 PM
I respectfully disagree...

Podsednik never was in the class of center fielder that Erstad was. This same statement holds for those two in the present.

I'd bet that Erstad is better defensively than Rob, Pablo, or Fields. As for Sweeney, he would never see left field on my team. If Sweeney sticks it is Dye to left and Sweeney in right.
So your saying Podsednik is not good enough to be a backup CF? He wouldn't be good enough to give BA a day off here and there or a couple days if BA jammed a wrist or twisted an ankle? Now no I wouldn't want Pods starting everyday in CF but for maybe 5-6 games this season to give BA a day wouldn't be horrible. Yes Erstad is better defensively than those guys but I still feel he is a wasted roster spot as a starter.

itsnotrequired
04-14-2007, 09:53 PM
0-for games are still bad games regardless of what flanks them and to date he's had 5 of them with a 0-1 with a K and a SF sprinkled in.

...and Konerko and Pierzynski have had 5 0-X games so far this season. Thome has had 6. Even the hot-hitting Podsednik and Uribe have 4 0-X games. What flanks these crappy games is absolutely important.

Grzegorz
04-14-2007, 09:55 PM
Yes Erstad is better defensively than those guys but I still feel he is a wasted roster spot as a starter.

So your argument is not with Erstad being on the roster but that he's a starter.

It looks as if you have issues with management and not Erstad.

getonbckthr
04-14-2007, 09:55 PM
For one week out of the season. It's a long season. Every one of the players will stink at least one week out of the season, its the nature of baseball. Erstad also not only knows how to take a pitch, but he also knows how to run the bases. Two aspects of baseball he's better than Anderson is.

But as far as questions as to why BA isn't in the game; its because Ozzie soured on the kid. And while I agree that if you're not going to use him at all (one game so far) I would send him to AAA and let him play. Get someone who can actually hit up here in his place, the team becomes that much better.
He can't hit without at bats. God forbid he struggled as a rookie. I think as baseball fans we have been spoiled the past 10 years with rookies flying out of the gates offensively. I'm not saying BA will be any of these guys but out of curiosity how did Ryne Sandberg, Robin Ventura and Joe Crede's offensive careers begin?

getonbckthr
04-14-2007, 09:58 PM
So your argument is not with Erstad being on the roster but that he's a starter.

It looks as if you have issues with management and not Erstad.
I have nothing against Erstad, I have problem with wasting valuable early career oppertunities to grow and mature into a major leaguer by going with a veteran who isn't producing any better than the kid would be.

A. Cavatica
04-14-2007, 09:58 PM
A .176 average doesn't tell the whole story of his season.

Actually, it does, at least for the ten games that have been played so far. .176 with just one extra-base hit and four walks. Granted, it is only ten games, but it does tell the whole story of his season.

CLR01
04-14-2007, 09:59 PM
What flanks these crappy games is absolutely important.

Game 1: 1-4 hr 2rbi's
Game 2: 2-2 2 runs 3 walks 2 sb's
Game 3: 0-4
Game 4: 2-3 1 run scored
Game 5: 0-4
Game 6: 1-3 2 K's
Game 7: 0-4
Game 8: 0-1 1 RBI 1 K
Game 9: 0-4 1 BB 2 K's 1 SB
Game 10: 0-5


And what flanks the good games is just as important and there is an awful lot of zero's flanking those good games.

I have never claimed that any of the other guys had been tearing it up for 6 games.

getonbckthr
04-14-2007, 10:14 PM
Game 1: 1-4 hr 2rbi's
Game 2: 2-2 2 runs 3 walks 2 sb's
Game 3: 0-4
Game 4: 2-3 1 run scored
Game 5: 0-4
Game 6: 1-3 2 K's
Game 7: 0-4
Game 8: 0-1 1 RBI 1 K
Game 9: 0-4 1 BB 2 K's 1 SB
Game 10: 0-5


And what flanks the good games is just as important and there is an awful lot of zero's flanking those good games.

I have never claimed that any of the other guys had been tearing it up for 6 games.
Shhhhhhh stats are meaningless

itsnotrequired
04-14-2007, 10:16 PM
Game 1: 1-4 hr 2rbi's
Game 2: 2-2 2 runs 3 walks 2 sb's
Game 3: 0-4
Game 4: 2-3 1 run scored
Game 5: 0-4
Game 6: 1-3 2 K's
Game 7: 0-4
Game 8: 0-1 1 RBI 1 K
Game 9: 0-4 1 BB 2 K's 1 SB
Game 10: 0-5


And what flanks the good games is just as important and there is an awful lot of zero's flanking those good games.

I have never claimed that any of the other guys had been tearing it up for 6 games.

So we're in agreement, flanks are important.:D:

My statement about the other guys going 0-X wasn't directed at you but rather as a general comment. Pods .312 doesn't seem too shabby but three 0-X performances and one 1-4 makes him sound like a bum.

A. Cavatica
04-14-2007, 10:16 PM
Shhhhhhh stats are meaningless

Stats over ten games are pretty meaningless. But when you look at Erstad's last six seasons there hasn't been much of a reason to anoint him a starting centerfielder.

getonbckthr
04-14-2007, 10:20 PM
Stats over ten games are pretty meaningless. But when you look at Erstad's last six seasons there hasn't been much of a reason to anoint him a starting centerfielder.
Uh cmon he had 240 hits 1 season and didn't you know he is a grinder. Essentially he is an older left handed Aaron Rowand.

A. Cavatica
04-14-2007, 10:21 PM
Uh cmon he had 240 hits 1 season and didn't you know he is a grinder. Essentially he is an older left handed Aaron Rowand.

No teal required: Rowand >> Erstad

SoxxoS
04-14-2007, 10:22 PM
I like Erstads attitude and I think he brings "intangibles" that are needed on a team (see Rowand, Aaron)...but the reality is that his numbers haven't been good since 2000. That, to me, screams 4th outfielder.

Has he not been healthy for 6 years straight.

BTW, I liked the signing, and still do - But I dont know why he was anointed starter and savior by some...and still don't.

CLR01
04-14-2007, 10:23 PM
So we're in agreement, flanks are important.:D:


Ummm...so what now? Do we drink? Hug? Sacrifice a pig? Eat a burrito? :smile:

DrGozzie
04-14-2007, 10:35 PM
But as far as questions as to why BA isn't in the game; its because Ozzie soured on the kid. And while I agree that if you're not going to use him at all (one game so far) I would send him to AAA and let him play. Get someone who can actually hit up here in his place, the team becomes that much better.

Why did Ozzie sour on him? I think BA comes across as a nice kid. And why is it not ok for BA to have a game with no hits if others are doing the same? BA had a nice solid hit his first time at bat. Did that incredible diving catch in CF count for nothing? (asking these questions in general, not directed toward you, Frontman.)

getonbckthr
04-14-2007, 10:36 PM
Why did Ozzie sour on him? I think BA comes across as a nice kid. And why is it not ok for BA to have a game with no hits if others are doing the same? BA had a nice solid hit his first time at bat. Did that incredible diving catch in CF count for nothing? (asking these questions in general, not directed toward you, Frontman.)
Because he acted like a 22 yr old and partied downtown.

itsnotrequired
04-14-2007, 10:47 PM
Ummm...so what now? Do we drink? Hug? Sacrifice a pig? Eat a burrito? :smile:

In the words of the immortal horsemaster Fred, let's all call a dog.

DrGozzie
04-14-2007, 10:48 PM
Because he acted like a 22 yr old and partied downtown.

Are you serious? I hadn't heard anything about that - who cares?!!! Like no other baseball player ever went out and partied??!! I know differently for a fact.

Thome25
04-14-2007, 10:50 PM
A change of scenery might benefit the Sox, Ozzie, and BA himself. Doesn't matter if it's AAA or another team for that matter.

Tragg
04-15-2007, 12:48 AM
A change of scenery might benefit the Sox, Ozzie, and BA himself. Doesn't matter if it's AAA or another team for that matter.

The thing is, we need a CF - even if Erstad hits his .320 OBP, he's a temporary "fix". We won't get an equivalent CF prospect if we trade him.

RockJock07
04-15-2007, 12:55 AM
I have maintained the thought that if BA wasn't going to start on this team, that terrero or perez needed to be up here instead of BA.

after the season BA had he needs to get some ab's at AAA. He's siting on the bench and learning nothing. So what if he partied downtown, who doesn't, he's young, what do you expect, sweeney and owens would do the same thing. Ozzie was sick and tired of 0-4, 0-5 games.

Kenny and the front office think that BA is going to be a power hitter. Maybe he will, but in the end, Jerry Owens and Ryan Sweeney are better options for the White Sox down the road. Until the Sox figure what there going to do with Josh Fields, BA looks like the odd man out as of right now.

I like BA, but i wouldn;t be surprised if he is traded before the deadline to get more pitching. Kenny will pull the trigger if it helps his team, i promise you that.

JB98
04-15-2007, 01:01 AM
I have maintained the thought that if BA wasn't going to start on this team, that terrero or perez needed to be up here instead of BA.

after the season BA had he needs to get some ab's at AAA. He's siting on the bench and learning nothing. So what if he partied downtown, who doesn't, he's young, what do you expect, sweeney and owens would do the same thing. Ozzie was sick and tired of 0-4, 0-5 games.

Kenny and the front office think that BA is going to be a power hitter. Maybe he will, but in the end, Jerry Owens and Ryan Sweeney are better options for the White Sox down the road. Until the Sox figure what there going to do with Josh Fields, BA looks like the odd man out as of right now.

I like BA, but i wouldn;t be surprised if he is traded before the deadline to get more pitching. Kenny will pull the trigger if it helps his team, i promise you that.

I'd be stunned if BA is traded before the deadline because he has no trade value. KW missed his chance to deal him after the 2005 season. Now the secret is out: BA can't hit an offspeed pitch, and he has holes in his swing like swiss cheese. Unless a NL team loses its starting CF to a season-ending injury and gets desperate, I can't see us getting any pitching for BA.

JB98
04-15-2007, 01:09 AM
The thing is, we need a CF - even if Erstad hits his .320 OBP, he's a temporary "fix". We won't get an equivalent CF prospect if we trade him.

That is a problem. Erstad is a win now, quick fix. He's having a poor series in Cleveland, so people are ready to throw him under the bus. I'll stick by him. He's a good defensive player. He's capable of stealing bases. He's a good bunter. I think we need to use him to hit-and-run more. Ozzie hasn't done that so far. He should.Sweeney projects as a corner outfielder, and I'm not sure Owens is going to pan out. I don't think CF is as big of an issue this year as it was last year, but a couple years down the road, I'm not sure what we're going to do. As for BA, I think he should be in Charlotte. We should have kept Perez. I think that's what Ozzie wanted to do, but KW disagreed with him. We lack a right-handed power threat off the bench, and I thought Perez could be that guy. Guess not.

voodoochile
04-15-2007, 06:09 AM
Ummm...so what now? Do we drink? Hug? Sacrifice a pig? Eat a burrito? :smile:

I have a suggestion...

Get a good bottle of bourbon. Drink enough where you are singing with your arms around each other's backs and swaying. Then find a pig and kill it, skin it, smoke it and turn it into burritos - use the flanks. As a bonus, you can use the bourbon to make a really good BBQ sauce and really enjoy the meal...

Frontman
04-15-2007, 07:56 AM
Why did Ozzie sour on him? I think BA comes across as a nice kid. And why is it not ok for BA to have a game with no hits if others are doing the same? BA had a nice solid hit his first time at bat. Did that incredible diving catch in CF count for nothing? (asking these questions in general, not directed toward you, Frontman.)

He partied downtown. A lot. From some reports, every night. It could be that he didn't listen to Ozzie, even when in his slump and kept going out. Between that, and being Brandon's best friend on the team, we'll never know if that played a factor (which would be stupid if Ozzie held one kids mistakes another, but who knows.)

Look, I agree I'd like to see BA playing. But we have Erstad, BA prefered to be on the major league roster instead of going to AAA. I also think its still a VERY long season, and we're going to see BA soon enough.

Jjav829
04-15-2007, 09:04 AM
Wow, there's an awful lot of talk in this thread about Darin Erstad. Don't all you BA lovers remember your own argument from last year - that BA didn't have to produce anything offensively because we weren't going to win or lose based on BA's offense and that the heart of our order was so good we could afford to have BA not hit at all? Where's that same argument with Erstad? Yes, Erstad is batting 2nd instead of 9th. So if you're going to get all pissy about the first 2 weeks of the season, direct your whining toward why Erstad is batting 2nd instead of 8th or 9th.

On another note, Danks continues to impress me. I'm so glad he was given the opportunity over Floyd.

Tragg
04-15-2007, 09:28 AM
Wow, there's an awful lot of talk in this thread about Darin Erstad. Don't all you BA lovers remember your own argument from last year - that BA didn't have to produce anything offensively because we weren't going to win or lose based on BA's offense and that the heart of our order was so good we could afford to have BA not hit at all? Where's that same argument with Erstad? Yes, Erstad is batting 2nd instead of 9th. So if you're going to get all pissy about the first 2 weeks of the season, direct your whining toward why Erstad is batting 2nd instead of 8th or 9th.

.
Because he hs 30+ years of age who has zero chance to improve and help this club for years to come. Anderson was an investment that could increase in value.....Erstad's ceiling is low.

gobears1987
04-15-2007, 10:28 AM
I said it after Game 1 of the 2005 ALCS and I'll say it now.

We can't hit Paul mother****ing Byrd?!?!He's the only pitcher who could beat us in the postseason. It pisses me off. We should be able to hit him.

itsnotrequired
04-15-2007, 10:33 AM
He's the only pitcher who could beat us in the postseason. It pisses me off. We should be able to hit him.

The Sox can hit him. They hit .346 against him at The Cell last season.

JB98
04-15-2007, 12:31 PM
Because he hs 30+ years of age who has zero chance to improve and help this club for years to come. Anderson was an investment that could increase in value.....Erstad's ceiling is low.

We're trying to win right now, though. We'll worry about 2010 when it gets here. As for Anderson, he's 25 years old. A lot of Sox fans, including some in this thread, seem to think he's only 22. I don't know why people think Anderson is destined for stardom. He's entering his prime right now, and he's yet to show he can hit big-league pitching with consistency. I just hope he becomes a serviceable player. IMO, he is not a future All-Star. Grady Sizemore is a year younger than Anderson and light years ahead in his development.

DrGozzie
04-15-2007, 12:56 PM
How many years has Grady Sizemore played in the big leagues? I ask because I don't know, and Brian was just a rookie last year. I think he'll develop into a great player, but that's based on nothing but a gut feeling. He's already awesome defensively, and I think if he only had more experience batting at the big league level, he would come around offensively. It's a big adjustment to bat at this level, even compared to AAA. I just have a bad feeling that if we ever get rid of him, he's going to be on some other team, doing incredible stuff, and we'll be sorry. Again, that's only my gut feeling, MOO (my opinion only.)

Are you guys sure about that partying stuff being the reason? If so, that really confuses me because almost all the players do that, with only a few exceptions, at least the younger ones.

JB98
04-15-2007, 01:05 PM
How many years has Grady Sizemore played in the big leagues? I ask because I don't know, and Brian was just a rookie last year. I think he'll develop into a great player, but that's based on nothing but a gut feeling. He's already awesome defensively, and I think if he only had more experience batting at the big league level, he would come around offensively. It's a big adjustment to bat at this level, even compared to AAA. I just have a bad feeling that if we ever get rid of him, he's going to be on some other team, doing incredible stuff, and we'll be sorry. Again, that's only my gut feeling, MOO (my opinion only.)

Are you guys sure about that partying stuff being the reason? If so, that really confuses me because almost all the players do that, with only a few exceptions, at least the younger ones.

Sizemore is in his third year.Like I said earlier in the thread, we can't trade Anderson. Nobody wants him. He'd only start on a handful of teams in the league. Other teams have seen how many holes there are in that swing. We're not going to get much for a guy who looks like nothing more than a fourth OF, late-inning defensive replacement at this point.