PDA

View Full Version : McCarthy v. Danks, Exhibit A for the Defense:


White City
04-09-2007, 09:51 AM
Here are the first starts for the two pitchers in question:

Pitcher>IP>(H+BB)>(R/ER)>(Score Diff. at Exit)>K>Decision>(Opp.'s Rot. #)

Danks >6.0>6>3/3>-3>6>L>1
McCarthy >6.0>11>5/3>-3>0>L>3

Their teams caught the same result, and they both left the game at the same time with the same score differential. Although McCarthy is a #3 and faced a #3, for this time, anyway, Danks caught the best pitcher in baseball as an opponent. Danks' WHIP of 1.0 and 6 Ks speaks favorably to McCarthy's fairly ugly pitching line. I'd call this one a near deadlock based on the result, with a slight edge overall to Danks.

So, Danks 1, McCarthy 0.

Dan Mega
04-09-2007, 10:25 AM
Its still too early to tell, but I really liked what I saw out of Danks yesterday. Besides 1 or 2 mistakes he kept up with Santana.

stacksedwards
04-09-2007, 10:28 AM
Here are the first starts for the two pitchers in question:

Pitcher>IP>(H+BB)>(R/ER)>(Score Diff. at Exit)>K>Decision>(Opp.'s Rot. #)

Danks >6.0>6>3/3>-3>6>L>1
McCarthy >6.0>11>5/3>-3>0>L>3

Their teams caught the same result, and they both left the game at the same time with the same score differential. Although McCarthy is a #3 and faced a #3, for this time, anyway, Danks caught the best pitcher in baseball as an opponent. Danks' WHIP of 1.0 and 6 Ks speaks favorably to McCarthy's fairly ugly pitching line. I'd call this one a near deadlock based on the result, with a slight edge overall to Danks.

So, Danks 1, McCarthy 0.


They both lost, its one game, bad argument. Rome wasnt built in a day and neither was a MLB career.

This is equivalent to compairing Bill Cartwright winning his first game as coach of the Bulls and compairing it with Phil Jackson.

Go Crazy!!!!!!!

dakuda
04-09-2007, 10:43 AM
Sample size is way too small. I liked what I saw with Danks yesterday, but it is his first game.

soxfan13
04-09-2007, 10:59 AM
They both lost, its one game, bad argument. Rome wasnt built in a day and neither was a MLB career.

This is equivalent to compairing Bill Cartwright winning his first game as coach of the Bulls and compairing it with Phil Jackson.

Go Crazy!!!!!!!

Alot of people at WSI base their Brandon love on one big game versus the Red Sox in 2005:?:

stacksedwards
04-09-2007, 11:10 AM
Alot of people at WSI base their Brandon love on one big game versus the Red Sox in 2005:?:

You can't evalute either of these guys. Brandon was a bullpen guy last year and Danks was in the minors. I'm saying why don't we give them each a full year as starters before we delcare this a win or loss for either side

NoNeckEra
04-09-2007, 11:20 AM
And it looks like we won't see either when the Rangers come in for three games April 17-19. Danks is scheduled for this Saturday in Cleveland then April 20th in Detroit. BM is scheduled to pitch today so he'll probably go over the weekend killing any shot we have of seeing him at USCF.

doublem23
04-09-2007, 11:29 AM
Danks' numbers are a bit decieving... He was having plenty of problems finding the plate, especially with his breaking ball and off-speed stuff. That's going to have to be fixed or else he's going to be in big trouble.

Still, can't complain too much with a debut like that. Tood bad we couldn't get him a W.

Jurr
04-09-2007, 11:35 AM
What I liked from Danks is the way he sells the change. He has a violent motion, and it makes his change look much like a fastball. If he can consistently locate his change, it's going to be trouble for hitters.

After watching the game again, it looked like he was throwing the same pattern of pitches to the hitters the second time around in the fourth. Mauer was sitting dead red and hit a rope. Morneau was about the same, though he just muscled that ball out of the park. With the location of that pitch, you would've figured he pops out to right. Oh well.

Danks looks promising, but that's all we can tell for now.

Dan Mega
04-09-2007, 11:45 AM
They both lost, its one game, bad argument. Rome wasnt built in a day and neither was a MLB career.


I'm still trying to find where the OP said that this seals the deal in Danks over McCarthy. I think the only people jumping the gun here are the ones falsely accusing others of making this declaration.

KenBerryGrab
04-09-2007, 11:45 AM
Don't forget we got Masset in there too. That kid will be something; you can feel it.

soxfan13
04-09-2007, 11:52 AM
You can't evalute either of these guys. Brandon was a bullpen guy last year and Danks was in the minors. I'm saying why don't we give them each a full year as starters before we delcare this a win or loss for either side

I agree with you. All I am saying is there are people on this site that fell in love with Brandon based soley on ONE GAME (the game he beat Boston)

Whitesox029
04-09-2007, 12:05 PM
I'm kind of disappointed that Danks won't get to face the Rangers next week and we won't get to face McCarthy...that would really show them. Our big 4 would tee off on a guy who gives up so many flyballs.

TomBradley72
04-09-2007, 12:14 PM
It's still interesting to track the data start by start..not only for the overall trade but to assess if the trade helped/hurt our chances in 2007.

MacCarthy goes tonight for Texas.

From what I've seen so far...this deal looks great...and Danks looks better to me than MacCarthy with Masset being additonal upside.

AnkleSox
04-09-2007, 01:13 PM
Our big 4 would tee off on a guy who gives up so many flyballs.

While I agree with you, it would really be nice to see our big 4 start teeing off ANYONE at this point.

oeo
04-09-2007, 01:17 PM
Danks' numbers are a bit decieving... He was having plenty of problems finding the plate, especially with his breaking ball and off-speed stuff. That's going to have to be fixed or else he's going to be in big trouble.

Still, can't complain too much with a debut like that. Tood bad we couldn't get him a W.

In the first few innings, he had these problems, but he settled down and was hitting his spots with his breaking stuff. It was almost as if, once Morneau hit that homer, he woke up and said I can't just throw my fastball...and he didn't.

Kuzman
04-09-2007, 04:48 PM
It's only one start. I wouldn't give the edge to anyone just yet. I think im going to keep the stats updated in my sig.

Zisk77
04-09-2007, 05:56 PM
As it looks now: Danks + Masset > Mcarthy. But too ealy to tell.

jabrch
04-09-2007, 06:22 PM
Don't forget we got Masset in there too. That kid will be something; you can feel it.


Exactly!

Another excellent move by KW.

White City
04-09-2007, 08:00 PM
Yeah, I wasn't looking to pass judgement on the trade when I started this post. I just had decided to track these two guys from start to start, just to get a sense of whether the trade might have hurt us THIS YEAR. Even then, comparing them start-by-start isn't a perfect approximation.

For instance, McCarthy got screwed in the second inning tonight. A sure fly ball was lazily misplayed by his right fielder, who jogged up and let it drop about 5 feet in front of him. The crowd lightly booed him. Bad defense like that isn't discounted in a pitcher's line. Then again, McCarthy DID deliver up two meatballs after that to make the score 2-0, but at least he struck out two batters and coaxed a fly ball out to stem the damage. We'll have to see how Danks does the first time Pods boots a sure out; hopefully better than Fingernails on a Chalkboard.

DumpJerry
04-09-2007, 09:04 PM
I hear an interview with Danks tonight on the pre-game show on The Score.

Danks' family is friends with Nolan Ryan and Nolan mentored Danks as he moved along in his career.

When McCarthy made his MLB debut against the Cubs and Mark Prior, there were stories in the papers about how McCarthy's mentor was none other than Mark Prior-a frequent email buddy of his.

Let's see: Nolan Ryan......Mark Prior.......regardless of how you feel about the Cubs (or even Prior), who would you rather have setting an example for you?

PeteFitz
04-10-2007, 10:17 AM
McCarthy looked pretty good last night against a fiesty DRays squad.

I think we got take a wait and see on this one. I think all three guys involved (Masset, McC, and Danks) are all pretty good and could end up being above average. So I'll wait. And then see.

I get a feeling that McCarthy's apt to give up the dong (in both senses) was his downfall with the Sox. The Sox seemingly got a fair trade in that one. So I'm cool with it for now.

Now the Freddy G for Garbage Floyd trade? That's a whole different ball of wax.

soxfan13
04-10-2007, 10:23 AM
McCarthy looked pretty good last night against a fiesty DRays squad.

I think we got take a wait and see on this one. I think all three guys involved (Masset, McC, and Danks) are all pretty good and could end up being above average. So I'll wait. And then see.

I get a feeling that McCarthy's apt to give up the dong (in both senses) was his downfall with the Sox. The Sox seemingly got a fair trade in that one. So I'm cool with it for now.

Now the Freddy G for Garbage Floyd trade? That's a whole different ball of wax.

Yes, because you can compare Garcia (who is on the DL) with Floyd and Gio who havent pitched up here yet.

jabrch
04-10-2007, 10:24 AM
I think we got take a wait and see on this one. I think all three guys involved (Masset, McC, and Danks) are all pretty good and could end up being above average. So I'll wait. And then see


I hope Brandon does well in Texas. I'm glad Kenny got two very good arms for one very good arm.

Now the Freddy G for Garbage Floyd trade? That's a whole different ball of wax.

First - Floyd isn't garbage. That's just silly.
Second - You left our Gio Gonzalez, one of the top ranked LH SP in the minors
Third - Freddy was GONE after this year either way - KW had decided he wasn't going to pay him what the market would pay him. So he capitalized on the opportunity to get two very good, near MLB ready, young arms for him.

This one has almost no downside - since all we are talking about is one year of a pitcher who we expect to be somewhere in the 200IP/4.50ERA realm, and who was definitely gone after this year. Even if Gio tops out as a middle reliever or a setup guy, 6 years of him before FA is probably worth more to the franchise over the long term than one year of Freddy.

I'm also wondering if OG/KW knew a bit about Freddy's offseason conditioning and felt pretty comfortable that it might be a good time to move him. Obviously they had know way to know he'd have biceps tendonitis - but OG knows him well enough to know what sort of sahpe he was in.

oeo
04-10-2007, 10:27 AM
McCarthy looked pretty good last night against a fiesty DRays squad.

I think we got take a wait and see on this one. I think all three guys involved (Masset, McC, and Danks) are all pretty good and could end up being above average. So I'll wait. And then see.

I get a feeling that McCarthy's apt to give up the dong (in both senses) was his downfall with the Sox. The Sox seemingly got a fair trade in that one. So I'm cool with it for now.

Now the Freddy G for Garbage Floyd trade? That's a whole different ball of wax.

So it's too early to tell for one trade, but another you can? Let me remind you that Freddy hasn't even pitched an inning yet.

As of right now, I'm not a real big fan of Floyd, but I have a feeling in my gut that he's going to turn around.

PeteFitz
04-10-2007, 10:41 AM
I hope Brandon does well in Texas. I'm glad Kenny got two very good arms for one very good arm.



First - Floyd isn't garbage. That's just silly.
Second - You left our Gio Gonzalez, one of the top ranked LH SP in the minors
Third - Freddy was GONE after this year either way - KW had decided he wasn't going to pay him what the market would pay him. So he capitalized on the opportunity to get two very good, near MLB ready, young arms for him.

This one has almost no downside - since all we are talking about is one year of a pitcher who we expect to be somewhere in the 200IP/4.50ERA realm, and who was definitely gone after this year. Even if Gio tops out as a middle reliever or a setup guy, 6 years of him before FA is probably worth more to the franchise over the long term than one year of Freddy.

I'm also wondering if OG/KW knew a bit about Freddy's offseason conditioning and felt pretty comfortable that it might be a good time to move him. Obviously they had know way to know he'd have biceps tendonitis - but OG knows him well enough to know what sort of sahpe he was in.

Few responses.

1) What leads you to believe that Gavin Floyd isn't garbage? He hasn't gotten anyone out on any level in a few years.
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/F/Gavin-Floyd.shtml
Granted he's 24. He has plenty of time to turn it around. Coop has worked with worse and made gems out of them. But he's got to be the Sox what? 8-9th starter right now? Behind Haeger, Gonzalez and others. In the grand scheme of things no, he is not "garbage", but I bet he does nothing but spot start for the Sox in the next 2-3 years. To me, that is garbage. Maybe the word is too strong, but I feel gipped in that trade.

2) As far as Gio. You are 100% correct. The creep can roll. But as a fan (and this is shortsighted) I wanted them to go for it this year. I think this team is a better one this year with Freddy on it, then Gio and Gavin. That's it.

3) I'll go ahead and speculate, if you don't want to...I'm sure Freddy's offseason sucked. With the extra games he threw in the WBC and the World Series the year before, I bet he was worn out. It was probably a good time to move him. Sure enough he is on the DL. But by the end of this season, I would have rather had him on the team. I mean we're going to lose Buehrle and Dye, but Kenny didn't trade them.

I just look at the McCarthy trade and can't think that Kenny couldn't have gotten a better deal for FreddyG.

Maybe it is a totally fair trade, and I am missing the point, but it doesn't feel that way.

One final note: I think the fact that I really like the McCarthy trade (and the fact that we traded two starters) is making the FreddyG tradde probably look worse then it really is. But whatever.

PeteFitz

jabrch
04-10-2007, 10:55 AM
I mean we're going to lose Buehrle and Dye, but Kenny didn't trade them.


Maybe it isn't a forgone conclusion that Buehrle or Dye are going anywhere, but it was decided that Freddy wasn't a priority.


I just look at the McCarthy trade and can't think that Kenny couldn't have gotten a better deal for FreddyG.

Freddy had one year left until FA and he was making about 10mm (not sure the exact $) - his value was much less than Brandon.

One final note: I think the fact that I really like the McCarthy trade (and the fact that we traded two starters) is making the FreddyG tradde probably look worse then it really is. But whatever.

I think before I'd draw conclusions about this deal (or the other ones for that matter) I'd want to see a bit more performance from the guys in question. In the case of the Danks deal, we are already seeing productivity from both he and Massett. So we can start to feel comfortable - even with a very small sample size. In the case of the Freddy deal, we won't know for a while. But here's the questions...

1) What will Freddy deliver this year?
2) Will Floyd ever be anything?
3) Where does Gio end up?

I don't think you can fairly conclude we got gipped until we see a bit more than we have already seen from any of these guys.

My inclination is to give KW the benefit of the doubt. I'm having a hard time finding a trade he made where we got totally screwed by giving away someone that was a very valuable piece to someone else, where we got junk in return.

The Ritchie deal was bad - but Wells/Fogg never did much to make me cry over their loss. Koch was a bum for us, but we got Cotts in the deal and Foulke only had one good season for Oakland before leaving for FA (which we know he'd have done with us since we weren't paying him anywhere close to the 8mm that Boston gave him). All in all - that deal wasn't a complete bust.

I know KW isn't perfect - but I really give him the benefit of the doubt unless there is evidence to prove that he's dead off wrong.

Jerome
04-10-2007, 10:56 AM
umm, way too early to tell?

I liked the trade at the time though, and Danks debut did nothing to change my mind...yet. And don't forget Massett

maurice
04-10-2007, 10:57 AM
Floyd's 1st start at Charlotte:
6 IP, 1 R, 4 H, 1 BB, 5 K.

Gonzalez 1st start at Birmingham:
5 IP, 0 R, 0 Hs, 1 BB, 9 K.

soxfan13
04-10-2007, 11:07 AM
Few responses.

1) What leads you to believe that Gavin Floyd isn't garbage? He hasn't gotten anyone out on any level in a few years.
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/F/Gavin-Floyd.shtml
Granted he's 24. He has plenty of time to turn it around. Coop has worked with worse and made gems out of them. But he's got to be the Sox what? 8-9th starter right now? Behind Haeger, Gonzalez and others. In the grand scheme of things no, he is not "garbage", but I bet he does nothing but spot start for the Sox in the next 2-3 years. To me, that is garbage. Maybe the word is too strong, but I feel gipped in that trade.

2) As far as Gio. You are 100% correct. The creep can roll. But as a fan (and this is shortsighted) I wanted them to go for it this year. I think this team is a better one this year with Freddy on it, then Gio and Gavin. That's it.

3) I'll go ahead and speculate, if you don't want to...I'm sure Freddy's offseason sucked. With the extra games he threw in the WBC and the World Series the year before, I bet he was worn out. It was probably a good time to move him. Sure enough he is on the DL. But by the end of this season, I would have rather had him on the team. I mean we're going to lose Buehrle and Dye, but Kenny didn't trade them.

I just look at the McCarthy trade and can't think that Kenny couldn't have gotten a better deal for FreddyG.

Maybe it is a totally fair trade, and I am missing the point, but it doesn't feel that way.

One final note: I think the fact that I really like the McCarthy trade (and the fact that we traded two starters) is making the FreddyG tradde probably look worse then it really is. But whatever.

PeteFitz

Who are the 2 starters we traded away. I thought we only traded one away?

PeteFitz
04-10-2007, 11:15 AM
I agree, I am jumping the gun on this one. But it is my gut reaction, so I said it.

And I like jumping the gun. It gets my brain working during an absolute trash day at work. Can I get an Amen.

I just can't help thinking Freddy would have helped this team (this year) more then the the Gio/Gavin combo will. I think the Sox have a shot at the belt this year. So naturally I want them to throw the best squad out there.

In the grand scheme of things, I assume (always getting me in trouble) that the combination of Gio/FLoyd will win more games for the Sox 2007-beyond then Freddy will. And the object is to win games. So it is hard to knock this trade.

I just find it odd that Kenny has gone from the win it this year attitude, to let's put something solid together for the long term.

Then again, Kenny's the best GM this team has ever had. And he a top GM in the league. Maybe he is ahead of the curve, and I am woefully behind it.

As far as Buehrle and Dye, if they have the seasons we want/need them to have, I don't know how the Sox could pony up that money. Too much. At best we sign one of them.

That all said. Go Sox. We all can agree on that.



2 starters: First one was Freddy G. Then with the four starters we had left, I believe McCarthy was the fifth. I think that is a pretty reasonable thought.

FedEx227
04-10-2007, 11:19 AM
I agree, I am jumping the gun on this one. But it is my gut reaction, so I said it.

And I like jumping the gun. It gets my brain working during an absolute trash day at work. Can I get an Amen.

I just can't help thinking Freddy would have helped this team (this year) more then the the Gio/Gavin combo will. I think the Sox have a shot at the belt this year. So naturally I want them to throw the best squad out there.

In the grand scheme of things, I assume (always getting me in trouble) that the combination of Gio/FLoyd will win more games for the Sox 2007-beyond then Freddy will. And the object is to win games. So it is hard to knock this trade.

I just find it odd that Kenny has gone from the win it this year attitude, to let's put something solid together for the long term.

Then again, Kenny's the best GM this team has ever had. And he a top GM in the league. Maybe he is ahead of the curve, and I am woefully behind it.

As far as Buehrle and Dye, if they have the seasons we want/need them to have, I don't know how the Sox could pony up that money. Too much. At best we sign one of them.

That all said. Go Sox. We all can agree on that.

Have you seen the progress of Garcia during ST and thus far into the year? He appears to be VERY damaged goods. His velocity is nowhere near where it needs to be to be a solid pitcher in the AL, and injuries at beginning to creep up.

If anybody knows Garcia, it is Ozzie and Coop and obviously to them, he was expendable, to me, we are already winning this deal because Gio/Floyd are gettin work in the minors while Garcia is sitting on the DL.

PeteFitz
04-10-2007, 11:20 AM
Have you seen the progress of Garcia during ST and thus far into the year? He appears to be VERY damaged goods. His velocity is nowhere near where it needs to be to be a solid pitcher in the AL, and injuries at beginning to creep up.

If anybody knows Garcia, it is Ozzie and Coop and obviously to them, he was expendable, to me, we are already winning this deal because Gio/Floyd are gettin work in the minors while Garcia is sitting on the DL.

Fair enough. I don't think Freddy is what he once was, but I still think he a decent starter, and money in the playoffs.

soxfan13
04-10-2007, 11:23 AM
I agree, I am jumping the gun on this one. But it is my gut reaction, so I said it.

And I like jumping the gun. It gets my brain working during an absolute trash day at work. Can I get an Amen.

I just can't help thinking Freddy would have helped this team (this year) more then the the Gio/Gavin combo will. I think the Sox have a shot at the belt this year. So naturally I want them to throw the best squad out there.

In the grand scheme of things, I assume (always getting me in trouble) that the combination of Gio/FLoyd will win more games for the Sox 2007-beyond then Freddy will. And the object is to win games. So it is hard to knock this trade.

I just find it odd that Kenny has gone from the win it this year attitude, to let's put something solid together for the long term.

Then again, Kenny's the best GM this team has ever had. And he a top GM in the league. Maybe he is ahead of the curve, and I am woefully behind it.

As far as Buehrle and Dye, if they have the seasons we want/need them to have, I don't know how the Sox could pony up that money. Too much. At best we sign one of them.

That all said. Go Sox. We all can agree on that.



2 starters: First one was Freddy G. Then with the four starters we had left, I believe McCarthy was the fifth. I think that is a pretty reasonable thought.

That was never a given. Last time I checked he pitched relief for the White Sox. Who is to say Haeger or someone else wouldnt have beat out Brandon for the fifth spot? Yes it was assumed (by fans and media) he was going to get the shot but by looking at what happened off season it was never assumed by the man the really counts (KW) that Mac was the starter.

jabrch
04-10-2007, 11:25 AM
but I still think he a decent starter, and money in the playoffs.

The first part of your statement is true. But I'm not sure he's much more than decent. For what we were paying him, and for his contract expiring after this year, and with his performance degradation, I don't think that warrants holding him and passing up on two young arms.

The second part of your statement is based on a small sample size. I'm not sure I'd expect he'd be as good in the post season every year as he was in the 2005 ALCS and WS.

FedEx227
04-10-2007, 11:28 AM
Fair enough. I don't think Freddy is what he once was, but I still think he a decent starter, and money in the playoffs.

I agree, but if we hung onto him and by the end of the year he's worthless. Kenny has let us down as a general manager. You always have to be planning ahead, Kenny and most of us understand that this is a good team and that to truly make a run not only this year, but for years to come you need to build a core of prospects and young pitches. Every World Series team since 2001 (exluding the Red Sox) has been aided by young prospects making huge jumps.

In 2002, K-Rod propelled the Angels. In 2003, Josh Beckett/Willis propelled the Marlins, 2005 we had Jenks, 2006 the Cardinals had Wainwright. If you sit around with the same guys that won you titles 3 years ago you end up like the Yankees, constantly needed to buy expensive players to shore up holes.

There is a great chance that Garcia becomes a serviceable pitcher for 3-4 more years, but Kenny got the top value out of him that he could. People constantly got upset that all we got were Floyd/Gio, but the fact of the matter is Kenny wasn't stupid and neither are a majority of major league GMs, they saw, like what we see that Garcia is very much damaged goods and he probably will be only a decent starter for another 1-2 years.

Do you hold onto your car for 3-4 more years knowing each year it's losing almost $2-3,000 in resale value and that it will cost almost $1,000 in repairs throughout the year or do you cut your losses now and try to get the best value possible RIGHT NOW.

maurice
04-10-2007, 11:42 AM
Yes it was assumed (by fans and media) he was going to get the shot but by looking at what happened off season it was never assumed by the man the really counts (KW) that Mac was the starter.

Right. Don't forget the Sox statements that McCarthy was NOT a lock for the 5th starter spot, that there'd be a competition, that he might get shipped back down to AAA if he didn't win the competition, etc.

We all were confused by the statements at the time, but they make a lot more sense in retrospect. If KW had McCarthy down as the #5 starter, it was written in pencil.

maurice
04-10-2007, 11:45 AM
KW traded 2 cars for 5 newer cars.

The next couple of years will separate the Cadillacs from the Kias.

Danks, Massett, Gonzalez, and Floyd started the regular season running on all cylinders.

Meanwhile, Garcia is still in the shop.

PeteFitz
04-10-2007, 11:47 AM
Ok. So many things to respond to, and I suck at using the quote button, so bear with me.

1) If you really want to split hairs, fine, McCarthy was not promised the 5th spot. I'd like a show of hands, though, that thought Haeger would be the fifth starter over McCarthy this year? He (Brandon) would be a starter in every rotation last year except for the Sox and the Tigers. If you really want to keep arguing over this alright. But I am done. We traded two starters in the off season. If not, then we traded two guys that happen to be in their new teams starting rotations. So whatever.

2) Freddy G's playoff experience. Almost 60 innings. Barring the time he got whipped by the Sox, he's been money in the playoffs. It's a pretty big sample size. I'll take my chances with him in the playoffs.
http://www.baseball-reference.com/g/garcifr03.shtml

3) The car example is a perfect one, if we are talking about long term responsibilty. But I think every once in a while you have a window and you have to go for it. This is the Sox window, I think in the short term, I'd rather have Freddy. Personal preference is all.

And the Yankees. I wouldn't mind being the Yankees. Going to the playoffs every year isn't such a bad thing to me. Granted the Sox cannot fiscally operate that way, but as Kenny has said in the past, prospects are just that, they're prospects. So I kind of bought in to that. Again, I'm sure KW knows what he's doing. There is a reason he runs a MLB squad, and I can't decide whether to pick up Gil Meche or Orlando Hernandez in my league of dorks. I am strictly arguing the merits of this trade from the short term angle.

Go Sox.

I like the chatter. I am starting to see it from both sides a bit better.

PaulDrake
04-10-2007, 11:48 AM
Then again, Kenny's the best GM this team has ever had.

KW is young as GMs go, it will be a while before you can close the book on him and rate him properly. Until then, my vote goes to Frank Lane.

maurice
04-10-2007, 11:52 AM
I want to see Garcia pitch this year before I determine how good he's going to be this year.

KW wants to go to the playoffs every year. He just decided that the Braves are a better model than the Yankees.

Very few recent champs bought their title. Most relied on cheap, young talent.

FedEx227
04-10-2007, 12:00 PM
You aren't going to loise anymore trade in value off of that car, in fact you might want to take the insurance off of it and strictly go with liability...:wink:

http://www.public.iastate.edu/%7Egrantnel/fordsad.jpg???

Garcia in 3-4 months.

Okay end of thread hijack.

INSox56
04-10-2007, 12:10 PM
In 2002, K-Rod propelled the Angels. In 2003, Josh Beckett/Willis propelled the Marlins, 2005 we had Jenks, 2006 the Cardinals had Wainwright.

Forgot one...In 2007 the WhiteSox have John Danks. :cool:

PeteFitz
04-10-2007, 12:10 PM
Gio and Gavin currently

http://www.johnlackey.com/images/listings/SusiesMopeds2a.jpg

INSox56
04-10-2007, 12:16 PM
Gio and Gavin currently

http://www.johnlackey.com/images/listings/SusiesMopeds2a.jpg

I'd take a running scooter over a wrecked car. heh

champagne030
04-10-2007, 01:48 PM
Gio and Gavin currently

http://www.johnlackey.com/images/listings/SusiesMopeds2a.jpg

more like Gio =

http://static.flickr.com/59/196654793_39ffbfd046.jpg

Floyd =

http://www.fraziersports.com/images/182521.jpg

balke
04-10-2007, 01:52 PM
I remember in the Garcia/Reed trade Reed came out hitting .400 and making all these sick catches. I didn't judge then, seems unfair to judge now.

Gotta wait the full season to see how these pitchers do. I can say right now I don't think either team got a raw deal. Both pitchers are young and haven't done anything (aside from Mccarthy pitching a stupendous Spring Training game once in his life). I think in the end the pitchers straight up might be a push, but throw in Masset and him doing well, Kenny strikes again. Time will tell.

Tragg
04-10-2007, 03:17 PM
McCarthy always struck me as a poised pitcher who wasn't afraid to throw strikes; and he had guts. Aside for more ML experience, he has done something the pitchers we received did not do - and if only 1 game, it was a biggie on labor day in boston in 2005. I believe that Daniels was a BoSox employee which might explain why he was willing to send so much talent our way for the talented McCarthy.
McCarthy was further advanced but we got 3 excellent arms, 2 of whom have pitched pretty well in the majors. Further, Ozzie wasn't using McCarthy in key situations (for whatever reason) so his value to us wasn't that high apparently.
I'd be surprised if McCarthy isn't a solid starter in baseball; and based on what I've seen so far, Danks and Masset will be good as well. Hopefully, a good trade for both teams.

cws05champ
04-10-2007, 08:38 PM
For all of those interested, they are discussing this in the FW Star-Telegram as well. Link: http://www.star-telegram.com/388/story/62574.html

My problem with the trade was, it violated my daddy’s philosophy that you do not give up young left for young righty. He is right. Hard-throwing left handers don’t grow on trees. While McCarthy may be solid, Danks could be special.
Of course, it is early.
But Danks and McCarthy are linked together forever. You will not be able to talk about the performance of one without mentioning the latest performance of the other.

102605
04-15-2007, 04:35 PM
Today's Line

Brandon McCarthy - 2.0 IP, 6H, 6ER, 1BB, 1K

oeo
04-15-2007, 04:46 PM
McCarthy always struck me as a poised pitcher who wasn't afraid to throw strikes; and he had guts. Aside for more ML experience, he has done something the pitchers we received did not do - and if only 1 game, it was a biggie on labor day in boston in 2005. I believe that Daniels was a BoSox employee which might explain why he was willing to send so much talent our way for the talented McCarthy.
McCarthy was further advanced but we got 3 excellent arms, 2 of whom have pitched pretty well in the majors. Further, Ozzie wasn't using McCarthy in key situations (for whatever reason) so his value to us wasn't that high apparently.
I'd be surprised if McCarthy isn't a solid starter in baseball; and based on what I've seen so far, Danks and Masset will be good as well. Hopefully, a good trade for both teams.

That's funny because I always got the exact opposite vibe from him. Danks is a guy that strikes me as the poised pitcher who isn't afraid to throw strikes. He showed it in Spring Training and carried it into the season...I love that guy.

jabrch
04-15-2007, 04:50 PM
I'm wishing Brandon nothing but the best (except for when we play him), but I can't help but think we got the best of this one.

I know - it's early. But Massett and Danks look to both be very effective MLB calibre pitchers.

PaulDrake
04-15-2007, 04:57 PM
That's funny because I always got the exact opposite vibe from him. Danks is a guy that strikes me as the poised pitcher who isn't afraid to throw strikes. He showed it in Spring Training and carried it into the season...I love that guy. I do too. Only time will tell if Danks can be counted over the long haul, but this guy is going to give his all. He has the pitches necessary too, it's only a matter of putting it all together. McCarthy on the other hand, never seemed more than a "serviceable" batting practice pitcher.

Rob190
04-15-2007, 05:23 PM
Looks like McCarthy only pithed 2 innings and gave up 6 runs, with 3 home runs.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-15-2007, 08:48 PM
Is there any chance we could merge this thread with all the other McCarthy/Danks threads? That would be bitchin'.

Next we could merge the McCarthy/Danks mega-thread with all the Anderson vs. Erstad vs. Podsednik threads into one colossal super-mega thread titled "The Grass is Always Greener on the Other Side, even when the Sox win" super-thread.

Just clicking on the thread header would be like time travel... sort of like a worm hole... pushing you into a whole new dimension where nothing is ever provable but everyone knows damned well how much better the Sox would have been had they only done "X".

Here I'll start...

"Clayton never even reaches that ball! He would stuff it in his pocket, so just forget about Valentin's throwing error... the guy reaches first base regardless!"

See... it's easy!
:cool:

DrCrawdad
04-15-2007, 10:23 PM
Looks like McCarthy only pithed 2 innings and gave up 6 runs, with 3 home runs.

OUCH!!!

That'll leave a mark.

White City
04-16-2007, 07:49 AM
Here are the second starts for the two pitchers in question:

Pitcher>IP>(H+BB)>(R/ER)>(Score Diff. at Exit)>K>Decision>(Opp.'s Rot. #)

Danks--- >5.1>8>2/2>-2>4>L>5
McCarthy >6.0>7>2/2>+6>5>W>2

Just as Danks was slightly better in the first matchup, McCarthy was slightly better the second time around. It didn't hurt that his offense poured in 6 runs in the bottom of the sixth, when it was already clear that McCarthy was done for the night. Danks still hasn't been gifted with a single run by his teammates. I'm not sure what you would say Eddie Jackson's spot in the Tampa Bay rotation is, since he missed out the first run through, then had two spots in the 2 hole. Even if he is a #2, he pitches like a #5.

After two starts, it's Danks 1, McCarthy 1.

Given that crappy performance by Brandon yesterday, Danks is in a good position to go 2-1.

The real takeaway so far has been how virtually identical their pitching performances have been. If that persists, then we won that trade big-time, since we also have Masset (and Danks is younger/has more potential/costs less).

oeo
04-16-2007, 10:18 AM
Here are the second starts for the two pitchers in question:

Pitcher>IP>(H+BB)>(R/ER)>(Score Diff. at Exit)>K>Decision>(Opp.'s Rot. #)

Danks--- >5.1>8>2/2>-2>4>L>5
McCarthy >6.0>7>2/2>+6>5>W>2

Just as Danks was slightly better in the first matchup, McCarthy was slightly better the second time around. It didn't hurt that his offense poured in 6 runs in the bottom of the sixth, when it was already clear that McCarthy was done for the night. Danks still hasn't been gifted with a single run by his teammates. I'm not sure what you would say Eddie Jackson's spot in the Tampa Bay rotation is, since he missed out the first run through, then had two spots in the 2 hole. Even if he is a #2, he pitches like a #5.

After two starts, it's Danks 1, McCarthy 1.

Given that crappy performance by Brandon yesterday, Danks is in a good position to go 2-1.

The real takeaway so far has been how virtually identical their pitching performances have been. If that persists, then we won that trade big-time, since we also have Masset (and Danks is younger/has more potential/costs less).

Danks is winning huge, so far. Look at their overall statistics, and Danks has a hefty lead.

34 Inch Stick
04-16-2007, 11:43 AM
Is there any chance we could merge this thread with all the other McCarthy/Danks threads? That would be bitchin'.

Next we could merge the McCarthy/Danks mega-thread with all the Anderson vs. Erstad vs. Podsednik threads into one colossal super-mega thread titled "The Grass is Always Greener on the Other Side, even when the Sox win" super-thread.

Just clicking on the thread header would be like time travel... sort of like a worm hole... pushing you into a whole new dimension where nothing is ever provable but everyone knows damned well how much better the Sox would have been had they only done "X".

Here I'll start...

"Clayton never even reaches that ball! He would stuff it in his pocket, so just forget about Valentin's throwing error... the guy reaches first base regardless!"

See... it's easy!
:cool:

I thought you were going to miss the Choice v. Valentin battles until I read the last sentence. Like Scott Podsednik, these threads seem to be strong every second year.

PaleHoseGeorge
04-17-2007, 06:59 PM
I thought you were going to miss the Choice v. Valentin battles until I read the last sentence. Like Scott Podsednik, these threads seem to be strong every second year.

I'm guessing we'll have a raging debate all summer at WSI over who runs the worst routes in center field; Anderson, Erstad, or Rowand.

:wink:

102605
04-26-2007, 01:38 AM
So McCarthy has now lost his rotation spot and is coming out of the pen?


That was fast. Danks wins.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap?gid=270425105


Edit: Nevermind. McCarthy was skipped in the rotation when the Rangers were rained out on Tuesday.

Beautox
04-26-2007, 01:44 AM
So McCarthy has now lost his rotation spot and is coming out of the pen?


That was fast. Danks wins.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/recap?gid=270425105

thats just a recap of last nights game nothing about him going to the pen, unless i misread something. I know they skipped him in the rotation, but i have yet to read anything about him going to the pen. I doubt daniels is that quick to pull the plug on McCarthy.

anewman35
04-26-2007, 06:39 AM
thats just a recap of last nights game nothing about him going to the pen, unless i misread something. I know they skipped him in the rotation, but i have yet to read anything about him going to the pen. I doubt daniels is that quick to pull the plug on McCarthy.

He linked it because he pitched 2 innings out of the pen yesterday. But, yeah, I think it's just a one time thing, at least for the moment.

Frater Perdurabo
04-26-2007, 06:40 AM
Wednesday was McCarthy's day to pitch a bullpen session on the side. They wanted to get him some innings. They still plan to have him make his next scheduled start.

anewman35
04-26-2007, 07:06 AM
From Rotoworld:

With Vicente Padilla going Wednesday after Tuesday's rainout, Brandon McCarthy's next start has been pushed back to Sunday.

Kameron Loe will go Thursday and be followed by Robinson Tejeda and Kevin Millwood. It's interesting that the Rangers are already showing more confidence in Loe -- who wasn't good enough to beat out Jamey Wright a few weeks ago -- than in McCarthy.

maurice
04-26-2007, 02:15 PM
Sounds like he's been demoted from #3 starter to #5 starter.