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View Full Version : *OFFICIAL* Last Place Sucks Postgame Thread 4/4/07


cheeses_h_rice
04-04-2007, 04:38 PM
Chunks.

Uncle_Patrick
04-04-2007, 04:39 PM
Ugh....

Aardsma was great. That's a plus.

Beer Can Chicken
04-04-2007, 04:39 PM
Must be that Arizona air that is killing the pitching staff.

peeonwrigley
04-04-2007, 04:39 PM
I'm more upset they wasted the Jack Sparrowean efforts of one David Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaardsma than anything.

soxfan123
04-04-2007, 04:39 PM
That was the luckiest catch I've ever seen.

soxfanatlanta
04-04-2007, 04:39 PM
Will somebody tell them that these games count?

Oof.

downstairs
04-04-2007, 04:40 PM
Well this train is derailing pretty damn quickly in 2007...

Two very poorly pitched games in a row to start the season. Wow. This is precisely what we did not want to happen.

IlliniSox4Life
04-04-2007, 04:40 PM
Well that sucks.

Dub25
04-04-2007, 04:40 PM
A game that should've been won. Someone needs to give Mr. Sizemore a little chin music. 1st 2 games he's been a little to cocky.

kevingrt
04-04-2007, 04:40 PM
Can someone explain the last catch to me? Farmio was confused because the ump signaled safe then out. Can someone explain if he stole a HR, just a good catch? What happened?

whitesoxfan
04-04-2007, 04:40 PM
That was the luckiest catch I've ever seen.

Even so, we blew opportunities throughout the game.

Very frustrating loss.

joebro25
04-04-2007, 04:40 PM
The ending to that game was probably the most depressing final out i have ever seen.

jenn2080
04-04-2007, 04:41 PM
:dunno: :help: :anon: :puking:


What the ****?!?!

Jjav829
04-04-2007, 04:41 PM
*sigh*.... That's a horrible way to end a game. I thought that ball was either going over the fence, or going to be dropped as Michaels bobbled it. Damn...

Regardless, our pitching wasn't good enough to win. Let's not turn this into a blame the ump postgame thread. Yeah, the strike zone sucked, but it sucked for both sides. We just got outplayed.

cleanwsox
04-04-2007, 04:41 PM
Starting pitching stunk, bullpen stunk, and no clutch hits in the late innings. Its like 2006 never ended.

Dub25
04-04-2007, 04:41 PM
Can someone explain the last catch to me? Farmio was confused because the ump signaled safe then out. Can someone explain if he stole a HR, just a good catch? What happened?

You really don't want to know.

Cuck_The_Fubs
04-04-2007, 04:41 PM
I feel everything but confident in this season. I know it's only 2 games, but it doesnt look good.

downstairs
04-04-2007, 04:41 PM
Can someone explain the last catch to me? Farmio was confused because the ump signaled safe then out. Can someone explain if he stole a HR, just a good catch? What happened?

Excellent catch at the wall. It was not going to go over. He bobbled it a bit and fell down, but it was certainly a catch. Don't know what Farmer was looking at, no question about it.

Hendu
04-04-2007, 04:42 PM
All comes down to pitching. Jon had one bad inning, and the pen was pretty shaky.

JD needs to knock those cobwebs out.

jabrch
04-04-2007, 04:42 PM
Another good offensive day spoiled by rotten pitching. Oh well - the good news is there are 160 more games left, and if our pitching rebounds we will be fine.

WizardsofOzzie
04-04-2007, 04:42 PM
This sucks :(:

OG4LIFE
04-04-2007, 04:42 PM
bad pitching + absolutely no offensive execution = today's loss

I'm not sure the starting pitching is going to be much better than last year. I don't see our offense, with the lineup as currently contructed, being able to take advantage of a leadoff walk or double. its home run or nothing.

getonbckthr
04-04-2007, 04:42 PM
Iguchi-Are you afraid of the ball? Get that bunt down kid!
Thornton- Cmon gotta work there.
Aardsma- nice outing hopefully a sign of things to come.
Jason Michaels (or whatever your name is)- **** you and Grady Sizemore (I like your enthusiasim though)
Umps- Strikezone, for both sides, is knees to letters, thighs are above the knees start calling those.

cleanwsox
04-04-2007, 04:42 PM
A game that should've been won. Someone needs to give Mr. Sizemore a little chin music. 1st 2 games he's been a little to cocky.

You can act that cocky when you play the way he has.

baaadbobbyjenks
04-04-2007, 04:42 PM
Well, we've started 0-2. I gotta go sell all my tickets.

Jjav829
04-04-2007, 04:42 PM
Can someone explain the last catch to me? Farmio was confused because the ump signaled safe then out. Can someone explain if he stole a HR, just a good catch? What happened?

Michaels was drifting back toward the wall and having trouble with the ball. He made a basket catch using his glove, arm and stomach basically and fell down against the wall. He held onto the ball, though, and it didn't appear to ever touch the ground.

oeo
04-04-2007, 04:43 PM
Ugh. This was shades of 2006. Game #1 that should have been won, but wasn't.

Things noticed from the game...
-JD looks terrible on both offense and defense.
-Iguchi still can't bunt.
-Aardsma is awfully inconsistent.
-Garland looks like he'll be alright. Had a tough 2nd inning, but did quite well after that.
-The bullpen looks very promising overall.
-That umpire blew balls.

minutia
04-04-2007, 04:43 PM
I feel everything but confident in this season. I know it's only 2 games, but it doesnt look good.
I know what you mean. If they don't get it in gear this is going to be one long season.

kevingrt
04-04-2007, 04:43 PM
We need the old Buerhle to come out tomorrow and be the stopper he was in '04 and '05. I know it's early but to start off the season getting swept would suck. And if we let up more then five runs again we could see some gaskets blow here tomorrow night.

PennStater98r
04-04-2007, 04:43 PM
I was watching the MLB.com updates - and I was wondering about that strike zone a bit.

What happened with Michaels on the last catch of the game? He tripped, but caught the ball?

MsSoxVixen22
04-04-2007, 04:43 PM
Garland was decent...for awhile. Aardsma was good. At least it wasn't a blow out like yesterday was. Get 'em tomorrow guys.....seasons can be lost in April and May

HotelWhiteSox
04-04-2007, 04:44 PM
Thornton was the only big surprise for me. And Dye looking bad. Erstad and Aardsma (I knew I liked this guy) were very good. The umpire was the ridiculous early on, and I think that really hurt Garland and us

baaadbobbyjenks
04-04-2007, 04:44 PM
We need the old Buerhle to come out tomorrow and be the stopper he was in '04 and '05. I know it's early but to start off the season getting swept would suck. And if we let up more then five runs again we could see some gaskets blow here tomorrow night.

If he pitches like he did in Atlanta, expect a W.

EMachine10
04-04-2007, 04:44 PM
tough one to lose....on another note, McCarthy is in line for the loss...

infohawk
04-04-2007, 04:44 PM
Yeah, two bad outings in a row for the starters. Not good. Not the end of the world, but not good. I caught the game in the 8th inning. I was most disappointed when Iguchi and Cintron couldn't move Pierzynski to third after the leadoff double. That's poor. Well, right now Ozzie's being interviewed and he's ripping the pitching staff. He's saying that it's early in the season but the poor performance by the starters is getting old. He's right.

baaadbobbyjenks
04-04-2007, 04:45 PM
7 runs should be more than enough to win.

Bruizer
04-04-2007, 04:45 PM
Well, we started 1-4 last year before getting in a groove. Sounds like it was a great game except how it turned out. I'll watch part of it tonight on the DVR.

Bru

Buehrle > Wood
04-04-2007, 04:46 PM
What I want to know is where the heck did Jermaine Dye go? He was clutch last year. He struck out twice in key situations days, first in the 5th (Crede saved his butt with a 2-out 2 run RBI single) and again in the 9th. He just takes that last pitch for ball 4 the Crede's near HR is a sac-fly that ties the game.

Jjav829
04-04-2007, 04:46 PM
-Aardsma is awfully inconsistent.


He was flat out dominant for the first 5 batters he faced. Then he just started to lose control.

I think Erstad has to be mentioned in any positives from today's game. 2-2 wth 3 walks, 2 runs and 2 steals. It's only 2 games, but he's certainly making a case to be in the lineup everyday, regardless of whether it's in center or left.

MrX
04-04-2007, 04:46 PM
The umpire was the ridiculous early on, and I think that really hurt Garland and us
That meatball Thome got in the first that scored 3 runs was because of the ump.

102605
04-04-2007, 04:47 PM
tough one to lose....on another note, McCarthy is in line for the loss...


6 IP 3 ER. Better than either of our 2 out of the gate but this is the wrong thread for this.

ShoelessJoeS
04-04-2007, 04:48 PM
Once again, I missed the entire game due to class... can somebody give me a quick recap of the game?

Thanks.

infohawk
04-04-2007, 04:48 PM
bad pitching + absolutely no offensive execution = today's loss

I'm not sure the starting pitching is going to be much better than last year. I don't see our offense, with the lineup as currently contructed, being able to take advantage of a leadoff walk or double. its home run or nothing.
I'm upset that they didn't do a couple of the little things on offense too, but they scored enough to win a ball game. They scored 5 on Monday and 7 today. If they pitched better they'd be 2-0. The starting pitching has been horrendous. Now we've got to try and avoid a sweep by a division rival, and I'm not as confident in Buehrle as I'd like to be.

Dan Mega
04-04-2007, 04:48 PM
I'm not too worried about our BP. Its better than Cleveland's thats for damn sure. Starters haven't been impressive yet but there is no reason to think they won't be.

SoxSpeed22
04-04-2007, 04:48 PM
Unfortunately, there's a ton of pressure on Buehrle tomorrow because of the spent bullpen. He has to go at least 7.

Dub25
04-04-2007, 04:49 PM
You can act that cocky when you play the way he has.

Like Farmio said, act like you've done it before.

spiffie
04-04-2007, 04:49 PM
He was flat out dominant for the first 5 batters he faced. Then he just started to lose control.

I think Erstad has to be mentioned in any positives from today's game. 2-2 wth 3 walks, 2 runs and 2 steals. It's only 2 games, but he's certainly making a case to be in the lineup everyday, regardless of whether it's in center or left.
You mean maybe Brian Anderson wasn't screwed and Ozzie and KW might have had some idea what they were doing?! :o:

Law11
04-04-2007, 04:50 PM
Man it was cold out there. I lasted until the 6th...
Listened in the car. If I'm understanding right, did we have the tie run in scoring position in the 7th, 8th & 9th? Thats sad...

oeo
04-04-2007, 04:50 PM
He was flat out dominant for the first 5 batters he faced. Then he just started to lose control.

I know, that's why I said he was inconsistent. He did the same thing on Monday...was very good in his first inning and then couldn't throw strikes.

chisoxwschamps05
04-04-2007, 04:50 PM
We wasted opportunities in the 7th, 8th, and 9th. The umpires didnt lose the game, we did.

oeo
04-04-2007, 04:51 PM
He was flat out dominant for the first 5 batters he faced. Then he just started to lose control.

I think Erstad has to be mentioned in any positives from today's game. 2-2 wth 3 walks, 2 runs and 2 steals. It's only 2 games, but he's certainly making a case to be in the lineup everyday, regardless of whether it's in center or left.

It's starting to look like left. Pods forgot how to swing.

thomas35forever
04-04-2007, 04:51 PM
What a depressing finish. The bullpen blew this game in the end. That was also a lucky catch by Michaels. It sucks being the only team in the Central without a win.

baaadbobbyjenks
04-04-2007, 04:52 PM
I know, that's why I said he was inconsistent. He did the same thing on Monday...was very good in his first inning and then couldn't throw strikes.

Maybe we should only leave him for an inning, maybe an inning and an extra batter at most. But, all in all, I though he look very good today. At least he got himself out of it. Pods' catch helped.

cheezheadsoxfan
04-04-2007, 04:52 PM
Well, we started 1-4 last year before getting in a groove. Sounds like it was a great game except how it turned out. I'll watch part of it tonight on the DVR.

Bru

Thanks for the reminder, makes me feel a little better. Man, I was sure Joe had won it for us.:(:

Jjav829
04-04-2007, 04:52 PM
Once again, I missed the entire game due to class... can somebody give me a quick recap of the game?

Thanks.

- Garland was mediocre.
- Aardsma had the best performance of the game when he entered with the bases loaded, down 1 and proceeded to strike out three batters in a row swinging. He also struck out the next two batters he faced in the following inning.
- Victor Martinez and Grazy Sizemore killed us.
- Darin Erstad and Jim Thome carried our offense. Thome had his 1st HR of the year, Erstad with 2 steals, including what could have been a big steal in the bottom of the 9th.
- Iguchi couldn't get down a bunt after Pierzynski doubled to lead off the 8th. We stranded AJ, who was the tying run.
- Michaels made an unbelieable catch to end the game.

cheeses_h_rice
04-04-2007, 04:53 PM
The Opener was one of those "60 you'll lose." Today was one that the Sox had every chance in the world to take, and didn't. Both pitching staffs dodged bullets all over the place, but our hitting just wasn't clutch enough.

Not just 0-2 but 0-2 against the AL Central, where this division will be won or lost. Burly has to come up with a big stop tomorrow to help right the ship. Not good.

AJ Hellraiser
04-04-2007, 04:55 PM
Wish this belonged in teal, but we are currently the WORST team in MLB...

Like everyone else here I am really pissed... I know it's only 2 games into the season and there are 160 left, but this could spiral out of control very fast...

If we get swept tomorrow (very possible with Buehrle on the mound, and soft-tossing lefty opposing him) and then we lose 2 of 3 or all 3 to the Twins we are quickly 1-5 or 0-6.... then head to Oakland where we are like 3-30 the last 9 years and then into Cleveland....

They are walking a tightrope here.. this is exactly what couldn't happen and it is...:(: :?: :o:

infohawk
04-04-2007, 04:55 PM
He was flat out dominant for the first 5 batters he faced. Then he just started to lose control.

I think Erstad has to be mentioned in any positives from today's game. 2-2 wth 3 walks, 2 runs and 2 steals. It's only 2 games, but he's certainly making a case to be in the lineup everyday, regardless of whether it's in center or left.
I know it's only been two games, but if I were a Cleveland fan I'd be a little concerned with Borowski. Wasn't their complaint with Wickman about how he made things a little too exciting in the ninth inning? Borowski seems very hittable. Too bad that last pitch to Jermaine fooled him so much. Out of Borowski's hand I saw it would be out of the zone and thought JD would draw a walk.

hawkjt
04-04-2007, 04:55 PM
Borowksi is not gonna hold up long for the tribe- he looked emminently beatable but the sox could not take advantage. JD is not seeing the ball well and that killed that ninth inning rally that borowski giftwrapped for them.

Long way to go. Ozzie is already pissed. good.

HotelWhiteSox
04-04-2007, 04:56 PM
I am wondering with how soon Ozzie tries Erstad and Anderson. It's just one day, but I wonder how much health is/did affect Pods. So far he doesn't look like he bring much to the table (how do you get thrown out by Martinez?)

ondafarm
04-04-2007, 04:56 PM
That meatball Thome got in the first that scored 3 runs was because of the ump.

Poor umpiring can even out. The best umpires have a consistent strikezone which is very predictable. Decent ones are at least consistent, if not perfectly within the rules. Poor ones are uneven and inconsistent. Westbrook also seemed to have his problems.

Soxfest
04-04-2007, 04:56 PM
Same old Sox, cannot bunt, bullpen inept, HR or bust!:angry:

Dan Mega
04-04-2007, 04:56 PM
Does anyone else think that Erstad may be moved to left to bring BA in center?

oeo
04-04-2007, 04:57 PM
Borowksi is not gonna hold up long for the tribe- he looked emminently beatable but the sox could not take advantage. JD is not seeing the ball well and that killed that ninth inning rally that borowski giftwrapped for them.

Long way to go. Ozzie is already pissed. good.

What did Ozzie say? I missed it.

ShoelessJoeS
04-04-2007, 04:58 PM
Thanks for the recap J.

thomas35forever
04-04-2007, 04:58 PM
Does anyone else think that Erstad may be moved to left to bring BA in center?
Two games into the season and you've already lost confidence in Pods?

oeo
04-04-2007, 04:59 PM
Does anyone else think that Erstad may be moved to left to bring BA in center?

It was only one game, but Pods apparently does not have the strength to swing a bat...or something. He didn't swing the bat once during his first two AB's, and his first swing ended up being a weak grounder that was bobbled by Barfield. I think he then swung one other time the rest of the game.

whitem0nkey
04-04-2007, 05:00 PM
Thornton was the only big surprise for me. And Dye looking bad. Erstad and Aardsma (I knew I liked this guy) were very good. The umpire was the ridiculous early on, and I think that really hurt Garland and us

but i do think that thome benefited from the small zone early on.

Hendu
04-04-2007, 05:00 PM
Does anyone else think that Erstad may be moved to left to bring BA in center?

Can't hurt, as Pods doesn't seem like he's 100%. Getting thrown out by Martinez is a bad sign.

baaadbobbyjenks
04-04-2007, 05:01 PM
Does anyone else think that Erstad may be moved to left to bring BA in center?

I was thinking the same thing just because I want Anderson to get some starts this season, and Erstad has looked very good. It's nothing against Pods for me.

Dan Mega
04-04-2007, 05:01 PM
It was only one game, but Pods apparently does not have the strength to swing a bat...or something. He didn't swing the bat once during his first two AB's, and his first swing ended up being a weak grounder that was bobbled by Barfield. I think he then swung one other time the rest of the game.

Yup. And thomas35, no I haven't lost confidence, its just that he isn't swinging the bat for some reason. I think Pods is the one who has lost confidence in himself. I was thinking that Ozzie may try out the Erstad/BA tandem to see what happens.

doublem23
04-04-2007, 05:02 PM
It's only 2 games... it's only 2 games... it's only 2 games...

****!

I'm not goign to lie... I feel a lot better.

infohawk
04-04-2007, 05:03 PM
If we get swept tomorrow (very possible with Buehrle on the mound, and soft-tossing lefty opposing him) and then we lose 2 of 3 or all 3 to the Twins we are quickly 1-5 or 0-6.... then head to Oakland where we are like 3-30 the last 9 years and then into Cleveland....

They are walking a tightrope here.. this is exactly what couldn't happen and it is...:(: :?: :o:
The Twins are playing the Orioles, but they are exhibiting all the Twin-like perfomances we have grown accustomed to seeing. I watched part of yesterday's game and saw them stealing bases at will, getting broken bat RBI's and holding a one-run lead in a low scoring game. Their pitchers fire strike after strike, especially out of the bullpen. Boof Bonsor had a fairly dominating start while our established guys are getting lit up. Well, I'll be interested to see how they do with Ponson, Ortiz and Silva making up three-fifths of their rotation. Didn't mean to turn this into an exposition on the Twins, I'm just remarking on how consistent they seem. I know it's early for the Twins and the Sox.

SoxSpeed22
04-04-2007, 05:03 PM
It's just one day, but I wonder how much health is/did affect Pods. So far he doesn't look like he bring much to the table (how do you get thrown out by Martinez?)That was my first thought when I saw it on gameday. (I didn't know Victor Martinez could throw anybody out) Which also makes me question Pods' skill as a base-stealer. A lot of his steals he could get by with his speed. Erstad could understand the pitching sequences today and got it done. Pods just hasn't been able to get it done yet.

Jjav829
04-04-2007, 05:04 PM
Does anyone else think that Erstad may be moved to left to bring BA in center?

It was only one game, but Pods apparently does not have the strength to swing a bat...or something. He didn't swing the bat once during his first two AB's, and his first swing ended up being a weak grounder that was bobbled by Barfield. I think he then swung one other time the rest of the game.

Yup. And thomas35, no I haven't lost confidence, its just that he isn't swinging the bat for some reason. I think Pods is the one who has lost confidence in himself. I was thinking that Ozzie may try out the Erstad/BA tandem to see what happens.

Eventually, yes, Ozzie might move Erstad to left and put BA in center. But that's at least a month away from being a permanent move. First, Erstad would have to continue to prove that he deserves to play everyday. Pods would also have to prove he shouldn't be playing everyday.

But while everyone is quick to jump on Pods here, let's remember he really didn't have much of a Spring Training. He spent most of Spring Training still rehabbing to try to get back to 100%, so he's still in Spring Training mode. He may very well get off to a slow start.

ShoelessJoeS
04-04-2007, 05:04 PM
Can't hurt, as Pods doesn't seem like he's 100%. Getting thrown out by Martinez is a bad sign.Yikes, that IS bad.

jabrch
04-04-2007, 05:05 PM
Two games into the season and you've already lost confidence in Pods?

EXACTLY...

Two games - TWO GAMES...

Erstadt is 3 for 5 with 2 walks for a .555 OBP while Dye is 1 for 8 with a .125 obp. There's no reason to draw ANY conclusions about ANYONE based on two whole games.

jenn2080
04-04-2007, 05:06 PM
EXACTLY...

Two games - TWO GAMES...

Erstadt is 3 for 5 with 2 walks for a .555 OBP while Dye is 1 for 8 with a .125 obp. There's no reason to draw ANY conclusions about ANYONE based on two whole games.


2 games is about how long it took for people to start wanting Anderson's head.

102605
04-04-2007, 05:08 PM
2 games is about how long it took for people to start wanting Anderson's head.

Actually, he did good in the opener last year :D:

infohawk
04-04-2007, 05:08 PM
I am wondering with how soon Ozzie tries Erstad and Anderson. It's just one day, but I wonder how much health is/did affect Pods. So far he doesn't look like he bring much to the table (how do you get thrown out by Martinez?)
Speaking of, I was a little surprised that they didn't have Pablo trying to steal third in the 8th. I'm not a big fan of trying to swipe third, but Victor Martinez is not a good defensive catcher. You've got to make him throw Pablo out. He may have chucked the ball into left field.

oeo
04-04-2007, 05:09 PM
Wish this belonged in teal, but we are currently the WORST team in MLB...

Uhm...the Rangers are on their way to be 0-3. That's besides the point, though, because it's TWO games.

Like everyone else here I am really pissed... I know it's only 2 games into the season and there are 160 left, but this could spiral out of control very fast...A lot of people here probably think I'm Mr. Optimism...well I'm not. I get worried too, I hate when the Sox lose, etc. BUT, then I come here and it puts everything into perspective. You see people like AJ Hellraiser here, that are 'really pissed', and think it means something that we are the 'WORST team in MLB' after two games. Jesus...we have a good team, calm down.

If we get swept tomorrow (very possible with Buehrle on the mound, and soft-tossing lefty opposing him) and then we lose 2 of 3 or all 3 to the Twins we are quickly 1-5 or 0-6.... then head to Oakland where we are like 3-30 the last 9 years and then into Cleveland....

They are walking a tightrope here.. this is exactly what couldn't happen and it is...:(: :?: :o:I'm going to say it right now...Buehrle will be our stopper this year. He will be our ace. I don't think many of you believe that, maybe more of you will tomorrow after the game. I was nervous about the first two games, but for the first time this season, I know we're going to win tomorrow. Buehrle isn't going to lose...he's our ace for a reason.

infohawk
04-04-2007, 05:11 PM
EXACTLY...

Two games - TWO GAMES...

Erstadt is 3 for 5 with 2 walks for a .555 OBP while Dye is 1 for 8 with a .125 obp. There's no reason to draw ANY conclusions about ANYONE based on two whole games.
The offense scored enough to win both games. It's the starting pitching that's costing wins right now.

oeo
04-04-2007, 05:13 PM
The offense scored enough to win both games. It's the starting pitching that's costing wins right now.

Garland kept us in the game and we had the lead when he was done. Lack of clutch hitting is what lost the game today.

JorgeFabregas
04-04-2007, 05:14 PM
Pardon me if this has already been mentioned. Play of the game: Podsednik getting thown out at second. If he's standing on first instead the Sox score at least one more run that inning and have another out to work with.

palehozenychicty
04-04-2007, 05:15 PM
The offense scored enough to win both games. It's the starting pitching that's costing wins right now.


So far, it looks like '06 again. But it is just two games. Burls has to throw well tomorrow.

CHISOXFAN13
04-04-2007, 05:17 PM
Garland kept us in the game and we had the lead when he was done. Lack of clutch hitting is what lost the game today.

You should win a game when you score seven runs.

Giving up five earned in 5 1/3 is what lost the Sox this game.

oeo
04-04-2007, 05:17 PM
Pardon me if this has already been mentioned. Play of the game: Podsednik getting thown out at second. If he's standing on first instead the Sox score at least one more run that inning and have another out to work with.

The play of the game, was Iguchi popping up a bunt. After Aardsma's amazing bases loaded, no outs performance...they were pumped up. You could see it, AJ showed it. Gooch popped up that bunt, and everything was sucked out. This is the kind of crap that happened last year...you don't just hand the momentum back.

ShoelessJoeS
04-04-2007, 05:23 PM
The play of the game, was Iguchi popping up a bunt. After Aardsma's amazing bases loaded, no outs performance...they were pumped up. You could see it, AJ showed it. Gooch popped up that bunt, and everything was sucked out. This is the kind of crap that happened last year...you don't just hand the momentum back.Wow, I didn't know that happened. That ****in stinks.

Thome25
04-04-2007, 05:29 PM
I know it's only two games into the season and it's way too early to pass judgement on this season but, there are a couple of things that worry me.

Based on last season, and coming into this season I worry that there is a possibility that the starting rotation is "all used up" and has nothing left in the tank. Buehrle and Contreras come to mind when I think of this concern.

There is also some starters that could be "up and down" all season long and be totally inconsistent. Garland, Vazquez, and the Rookie Danks come to mind with this concern.

Is the bullpen experienced enough to pick up a struggling pitching staff IF (and that's a BIG if.) the starters don't find their way? IMO there's too many guys with so little experience in the pen.

I still think we have too many guys looking to club the ball in the lineup and not enough good, consistent situational hitters.

I am in no way saying that this is the way it's going to be all season long. I think (and hope) that the Sox will turn these issues around and turn them into positives. But, if these issues linger all season long, WATCH OUT because it's going to be a LOOOONNGG season for all of us.

oeo
04-04-2007, 05:37 PM
You should win a game when you score seven runs.

Giving up five earned in 5 1/3 is what lost the Sox this game.

Point is, the offense still had a chance to win it. It's not like Monday when they were out of it from the start. Garland kept us in the game, and had the lead when he was done.

ChicagoG19
04-04-2007, 05:39 PM
I froze my butt off for 3 and 1/2 hours to only see the game end on BS catch:angry:

santo=dorf
04-04-2007, 05:43 PM
Scott Podsednik getting thrown out by the worst defensive catcher in the league (but damn he makes up for it offensively against us) cost us 1 run for sure, probably more with that waste of an out in that big 5th inning.

Buehrle better show up to eat some innings tomorrow.

goon
04-04-2007, 05:46 PM
you people are nuts. bringing up the term "spiraling out of control" in any context in relation to our first games of the season is ridiculous.

it's two games, do you honestly think our team is that bad?

cheeses_h_rice
04-04-2007, 05:49 PM
you people are nuts. bringing up the term "spiraling out of control" in any context in relation to our first games of the season is ridiculous.

it's two games, do you honestly think our team is that bad?

I agree. As bad as it feels to be winless and sitting at the bottom of the division, it helps to think of these 2 games like 2 games in, say, August. Oh well, we lost 2 in a row.

What is a bit worrisome is that our starting pitching has not seemingly kicked it into regular season gear after a poor Spring. Part of that is undoubtedly due to having to face the mashers in the Jndjans lineup, but part of it is just mentally weak pitching.

BadBobbyJenks
04-04-2007, 05:53 PM
I was sitting in right field and I could only see Michaels back, how good did that catch look?


Unreal way to lose a game in 30 degree weather no less.



But Aardsma was ridiculous, so we got that going for us



And Erstad is looking real good, could be a huge steal

sox1970
04-04-2007, 05:56 PM
They started 1-4 last year, and ended up going 55-25 the next 80 games. Unfortunately, 34-43 the last 77 kinda ruined things.

Buehrle will win tomorrow. Vazquez and Danks will also win. Sunday--well, that may be another story. 3-3 by Sunday night, and we take 2 of 3 in Oakland. Yes, I said it.

BadBobbyJenks
04-04-2007, 05:56 PM
I'm going to say it right now...Buehrle will be our stopper this year. He will be our ace. I don't think many of you believe that, maybe more of you will tomorrow after the game. I was nervous about the first two games, but for the first time this season, I know we're going to win tomorrow. Buehrle isn't going to lose...he's our ace for a reason.


I agree with this statement completely, Ive penciled Buehrle in for 17-20 this year

DickAllen72
04-04-2007, 05:57 PM
The difference in today's game was Cleveland outplayed the Sox--they came through and executed in the clutch, the Sox didn't. The better team (at least for today) won.

One point, however:

If Podsednik can't steal a base against Victor Martinez, he should be placed on the DL immediately or be cut. If he can't even steal a base against a catcher that would have trouble throwing Konerko out, he is absolutely useless to the Sox.

If the Sox can't count on dominant starting pitching, then they are a bat short in the outfield, and a Pods who can't steal can't be carried. KW needs to get on the phone and get a major league left fielder here quickly. Short term solution would be to DL Pods and sign Eduardo Perez as a RH DH, and platoon Mackowiak and Ozuna in LF until the Sox can find a real outfielder with a little pop in his bat.

Heck, if Toby Hall can recover quickly enough, maybe he can replace Pods on the roster as a RH DH and an emergency third catcher.

cheeses_h_rice
04-04-2007, 05:59 PM
Heck, if Toby Hall can recover quickly enough, maybe he can replace Pods on the roster as a RH DH and an emergency third catcher.

From what I've heard, it's looking like Hall is out for the entire season.

santo=dorf
04-04-2007, 05:59 PM
If the Sox can't count on dominant starting pitching, then they are a bat short in the outfield, and a Pods who can't steal can't be carried. KW needs to get on the phone and get a major league left fielder here quickly. Short term solution would be to DL Pods and sign Eduardo Perez as a RH DH, and platoon Mackowiak and Ozuna in LF until the Sox can find a real outfielder with a little pop in his bat.
Or how about Erstad in left and Brian in CF?

goon
04-04-2007, 06:00 PM
What is a bit worrisome is that our starting pitching has not seemingly kicked it into regular season gear after a poor Spring. Part of that is undoubtedly due to having to face the mashers in the Jndjans lineup, but part of it is just mentally weak pitching.


Yeah, but only one starter looked really bad, Jose. Jon looked how he looked last season in the beginning of the year, only better.

Jose didn't look hurt though, which is very important to say. He was getting up to 92-93, he was just right over the plate.

DickAllen72
04-04-2007, 06:02 PM
Or how about Erstad in left and Brian in CF?
Maybe eventually, but right now the Sox need definite production from that spot, not potential. And even if Brian does win that spot, that still leaves the Sox one man short.

Tragg
04-04-2007, 06:03 PM
The troublesome thing is a)we couldn't scratch out a single run against a bad bullpen (statistically, the offense is good - always is except for the year that we won the WS) and b) a manager who seems to be managing based on his pet theories - for example, batting the 4th best hitter on this team in the 8 hole.
Speaking of which - we have our 4th best hitter bunt with a runner on 2nd and no one out so that 2 far inferior hitters behind him can take a shot at driving in a run? Give up Iguchi so that poor-hitting Cintron can drive him in? That's laughable. The only thing more ridiculous is using the worst hitter on the team, Cintron, as a pinch hitter in the first place. How about, perhaps using Rob M who actually knows how to HIT as a pinch hitter?

tlebar318
04-04-2007, 06:03 PM
Or how about Erstad in left and Brian in CF?

My thoughts exactly!

santo=dorf
04-04-2007, 06:04 PM
Maybe eventually, but right now the Sox need definite production from that spot, not potential.
OK, and we're not getting anything by putting Pods out there and using Brian as a pinch runner.

Free Brian Anderson.

Release Podsednik into the wild.

Beer Can Chicken
04-04-2007, 06:04 PM
What did Ozzie say? I missed it.

In so many words - He said our pitching sucks but he thinks they have the stuff to compete.

DMarte708
04-04-2007, 06:07 PM
My thoughts exactly!
I'm interested in how much patience the organizaiton has with Podsednik.

A no tool player holds no use to this ballclub. Especially from the leadoff position.

Tragg
04-04-2007, 06:09 PM
Erstad took 3 walks - that's promising.
Ozzie will probably demote him now.

sox1970
04-04-2007, 06:09 PM
I'm interested in how much patience the organizaiton has with Podsednik.

A no tool player holds no use to this ballclub. Especially from the leadoff position.

Pods is only here because they're getting Ichiro next year. They know they're only winning 80 games this year, so just be patient, and enjoy the 2009 World Series!

sox1970
04-04-2007, 06:10 PM
Erstad took 3 walks - that's promising.
Ozzie will probably demote him now.

Is McKay Christensen back?

Hawk bashed him a couple times this spring.

palehozenychicty
04-04-2007, 06:13 PM
Jose didn't look hurt though, which is very important to say. He was getting up to 92-93, he was just right over the plate.

I didn't watch, but people said that the Count wasn't getting ihs forkball over for strikes. If that doesn't happen for him, then charge it to the game. Get the next guy.

russ99
04-04-2007, 06:33 PM
It was only one game, but Pods apparently does not have the strength to swing a bat...or something. He didn't swing the bat once during his first two AB's, and his first swing ended up being a weak grounder that was bobbled by Barfield. I think he then swung one other time the rest of the game.


It's called working the count, and in his successful season in 2005, Pods did it a lot in order to get on base or get a better pitch to hit, if anyone else noticed. If fact, I noted many times that Pods wouldn't swing unless it was 3-2.

One freaking game, and the Pods haters are already out in force. :angry: (not to say "oeo" is one of them) Geez. The guy got on and at least tried to steal a base, unlike the rest of our sluggers/station-to-station plodders.

I'm not panicking yet, but I'm certainly hopeful that Buehrle brings his A game tomorrow.

chisoxfanatic
04-04-2007, 06:34 PM
*shakes head*

What a lucky catch by Michaels there. Hopefully Buehrle will put an end to this tomorrow, and that our hitting won't continue to rely on the long ball.

Hendu
04-04-2007, 06:44 PM
Just got home from work and I'm still ticked off about letting this one get away.

I hope Buehrle can get our pitching staff on a roll. Cleveland's offense is good, but they can't be this good.

santo=dorf
04-04-2007, 06:45 PM
It's called working the count, and in his successful season in 2005, Pods did it a lot in order to get on base or get a better pitch to hit, if anyone else noticed. If fact, I noted many times that Pods wouldn't swing unless it was 3-2.

One freaking game, and the Pods haters are already out in force. :angry: (not to say "oeo" is one of them) Geez. The guy got on and at least tried to steal a base, unlike the rest of our sluggers/station-to-station plodders.

I'm not panicking yet, but I'm certainly hopeful that Buehrle brings his A game tomorrow.
Pods averaged 4.07 p/pa in 2006
Pods averaged 3.89 p/pa in 2005

Our "station-to-station plodders" win us more games than Pods (not just that there's more of them) and today Pods' ****up cost us a run, and an out in a huge inning.

To whomever is batting 1st and 2nd in the lineup, just get on base. We have arguably the best 3-4-5 hitters in the MLB. We don't need to risk these outs, especially if the player isn't healthy, when we have the big boppers batting right after them.

RockJock07
04-04-2007, 06:46 PM
Hey guys, it's my first post on this site. Anyways, today wasn't a game from the 2007 season, this was a game from the 2006 season. Tadahito needs to go back to AZ to learn how to bunt. It was a piss poor effort all around today.

I'm not worried about the Indians, but once the Sox start playing detroit and minnesota they are gonna get steamrolled if they keep walking everyone (10 BB's today) and if they don't do the little things.

Erstad is gonna be an all-star, anyone agree.

chisoxfanatic
04-04-2007, 06:48 PM
Erstad is gonna be an all-star, anyone agree.

If he continues like this, of course. Looks like that was a great pick-up so far.

itsnotrequired
04-04-2007, 06:49 PM
Hey guys, it's my first post on this site. Anyways, today wasn't a game from the 2007 season, this was a game from the 2006 season. Tadahito needs to go back to AZ to learn how to bunt. It was a piss poor effort all around today.

I'm not worried about the Indians, but once the Sox start playing detroit and minnesota they are gonna get steamrolled if they keep walking everyone (10 BB's today) and if they don't do the little things.

Erstad is gonna be an all-star, anyone agree.

I predict the Sox will walk 40-50 against the Twins and/or Tigers.

:rolleyes:

Scottiehaswheels
04-04-2007, 06:51 PM
This doesn't really belong here but I didn't want to start a thread about it... According to what Mr. Roboto and I heard from overhearing the security guys talking, sounds like they may cancel/postpone Friday's night game vs. the Twins due to extremely cold weather... Just a heads up this may or may not happen... Guess we shall see...

itsnotrequired
04-04-2007, 06:55 PM
This doesn't really belong here but I didn't want to start a thread about it... According to what Mr. Roboto and I heard from overhearing the security guys talking, sounds like they may cancel/postpone Friday's night game vs. the Twins due to extremely cold weather... Just a heads up this may or may not happen... Guess we shall see...

Well I was talking to a different security guard and he told me that everyone can sit in suites on Friday.

:redneck

sox1970
04-04-2007, 06:55 PM
This doesn't really belong here but I didn't want to start a thread about it... According to what Mr. Roboto and I heard from overhearing the security guys talking, sounds like they may cancel/postpone Friday's night game vs. the Twins due to extremely cold weather... Just a heads up this may or may not happen... Guess we shall see...

Somehow, I don't think Gardenhire will push Santana's start back to Monday or Tuesday.

Frontman
04-04-2007, 06:57 PM
Yikes. That was awful. I felt sick when that ball was caught/bobbled/CAUGHT BAREHANDED then forced into the glove.

We can't win them all, but can we win one? Soon?!??! Please?

Hats off to him for the catch though. But Sizemore? Grow the freak up already. So you guys have won 2 games out of 162. Big whoop. This wasn't for the division championship!

Meh. I hope Mark pitches tomorrow like he did on Friday. We need him to step up, now more than ever.

russ99
04-04-2007, 07:02 PM
Pods averaged 4.07 p/pa in 2006
Pods averaged 3.89 p/pa in 2005

Our "station-to-station plodders" win us more games than Pods (not just that there's more of them) and today Pods' ****up cost us a run, and an out in a huge inning.

To whomever is batting 1st and 2nd in the lineup, just get on base. We have arguably the best 3-4-5 hitters in the MLB. We don't need to risk these outs, especially if the player isn't healthy, when we have the big boppers batting right after them.

I'll grant you that, but some of the people on the board are ready to throw Pods away after one game where he did get on base twice, and our #5 hitter, Dye, laid a giant egg today both in the field and at the plate.

I don't see how Pods trying to steal was such a huge mistake. It was a half-pitchout (go back and look how Martinez set up) and Pods still almost beat the tag, and honestly bodes well about his ability to steal bases and manufacture runs this season.

My point being it's two games into a long season. If Podsednik (and Dye for that matter) aren't productive after a few weeks to a month, then there's some justification for this kind of outcry.

Jurr
04-04-2007, 07:07 PM
Get off Pods' nuts. This is ridiculous. Just watched the game and saw A.)Both pitching starters getting squeezed B.)All the momentum in the world being doused with Iguchi's bunt attempt and C.)A ridiculous catch to end it. Period.

If that ball rattles off of the fence, as 90% of the time it would have, the game would've been a miracle win for the Sox, and nobody would be talking about Pods at all. Give me a break.

CLR01
04-04-2007, 07:12 PM
You should win a game when you score seven runs.

Giving up five earned in 5 1/3 is what lost the Sox this game.

Last I checked 7 was greater than 5. Wouldn't that mean the three runs the bullpen allowed in 1 2/3 lost the Sox this game?

Jurr
04-04-2007, 07:22 PM
If you think any of this game gave an accurate assessment of White Sox baseball, you're crazy. When the weather is as cold as it was, and the pitchers can't feel their fingers, you throw up your hands and hope for the best. No amount of motivation, hunger, or whatever is going to help you win that game.

There were just a lot of freak occurences. Aardsma striking out the side. Freak occurence. He almost gave up a GS right after that. Michaels' catch at the end. Freak occurence. That game very well could've ended up a Sox win had that ball not been caught.

This is one of those "chalk it up" games that either team had no business winning or losing. It seems like doomsday because the Sox are 0-2, but relax. It'll get better.

champagne030
04-04-2007, 07:26 PM
Get off Pods' nuts. This is ridiculous. Just watched the game and saw A.)Both pitching starters getting squeezed B.)All the momentum in the world being doused with Iguchi's bunt attempt and C.)A ridiculous catch to end it. Period.

If that ball rattles off of the fence, as 90% of the time it would have, the game would've been a miracle win for the Sox, and nobody would be talking about Pods at all. Give me a break.

My friends and I would have been. Don't sugarcoat a crappy performance just because it's would've ( a win in spite of him) been a win. Maybe if it's the last game of winning the WS, but he looks like a continuation of '06. BA can go up there and but the bat on his shoulder and play better defense.

BainesHOF
04-04-2007, 07:33 PM
First of all, the home plate umpire was ridiculous today. He has no business being in the majors. He was bad for both teams. Thome's homer in the first was oh-so-predictable after the umpire was repeatedly calling balls on pitches that were grabbing a sizeable portion of the plate.

It's too bad Garland didn't pitch better. I'd like to see him become a 20-game winner this year, but today he took a step back. His ball was moving for the most part, but he didn't have great command. Of course the umpire really didn't help him either. I guess the people who were squawking about him not starting on Opening Day can be quiet.

When Podsednik got thrown out at second, he actually got a good jump, but just took awhile to get there. If we're to have a great season, I think Podsednik needs to help make it happen. I'd say be a little patient with him, but that's not going to calm down the people who are foaming at the mouth about him after one game. One game! Geez.

Dye right now doesn't have a clue. Ozzie needs to drop him in the order until Dye returns to normal.

Iguchi should be ordered to arrive at the park early tomorrow to take a half hour of bunting practice. His execution was ridiculous today, especially for a middle infielder.

It's time for Ozzie to start managing instead of talking a good game.

And it's time for some of you to stop overreacting. I understand we can't get off to a bad start in April and May, but give the team a little time to see where it stands. We've only played two games, folks.

Brian26
04-04-2007, 07:33 PM
Speaking of which - we have our 4th best hitter bunt with a runner on 2nd and no one out so that 2 far inferior hitters behind him can take a shot at driving in a run? Give up Iguchi so that poor-hitting Cintron can drive him in? That's laughable. The only thing more ridiculous is using the worst hitter on the team, Cintron, as a pinch hitter in the first place. How about, perhaps using Rob M who actually knows how to HIT as a pinch hitter?


Thank You. 103 posts into the thread, and someone finally mentioned the point I was going to bring up.

AJ starts the 8th with a double. Aardsma just struck out the side in the top half of the inning. Iguchi comes to the plate, who's already homered in the game and has been smoking the ball all over the field. The Sox have all of the momentum in the world on their side. No outs, possibly a chance to break open a nice big inning, and Ozzie asks Iguchi to bunt.

Although it's debatable about whether or not the time was appropriate, the hitter definitely wasn't appropriate. Maybe if Cintron or Pods was up, but not Iguchi.

Terrible managing by Ozzie.

Jurr
04-04-2007, 07:35 PM
My friends and I would have been. Don't sugarcoat a crappy performance just because it's would've ( a win in spite of him) been a win. Maybe if it's the last game of winning the WS, but he looks like a continuation of '06. BA can go up there and but the bat on his shoulder and play better defense.
God forbid a guy goes 0-4 with a walk and run in a game. Wow, does he suck. That one game sample is HUGE.
Oh, yeah, he had a pretty nice catch on that fly with the bases loaded, too.

Jeez. I think some of you dolts are as reactionary as the friggin' media. Yeah, they'll be jawing about the Sox and how they're in a tailspin tomorrow, too.

Compared to an NFL season, the past two games equal less than a QUARTER of football.
You guys would probably throw your favorite football team under the bus if it was a 10-0 deficit after the opening quarter of the season. They all suck. Get rid of 'em.

Take a valium. Hell, I'll write the script myself and send it to your ass.

Bill Naharodny
04-04-2007, 07:44 PM
Ugh. This was shades of 2006. Game #1 that should have been won, but wasn't.

Things noticed from the game...
-JD looks terrible on both offense and defense.
-Iguchi still can't bunt.
-Aardsma is awfully inconsistent.
-Garland looks like he'll be alright. Had a tough 2nd inning, but did quite well after that.
-The bullpen looks very promising overall.
-That umpire blew balls.

JD looked slow in right all last year, particularly on balls hit over his head. That's why he made a bunch of leaping catches. He'd break late, run slow and jump. And he catches most high flies falling away or flat-footed, so rare is the time when JD is going to throw out anyone on the bases. Basically, what I'm saying is that JD, though a fine offensive player and class act, is suspect in the field. I feel that this was overshadowed last year by so many other problems that we had. He's no Mack out there, but he's getting closer to DH material than most might think.

Jurr
04-04-2007, 07:47 PM
JD looked slow in right all last year, particularly on balls hit over his head. That's why he made a bunch of leaping catches. He'd break late, run slow and jump. And he catches most high flies falling away or flat-footed, so rare is the time when JD is going to throw out anyone on the bases. Basically, what I'm saying is that JD, though a fine offensive player and class act, is suspect in the field. I feel that this was overshadowed last year by so many other problems that we had. He's no Mack out there, but he's getting closer to DH material than most might think.
Wow. Just wow.

Lose 2 games and MVP candidates are bums. It definitely is baseball season again. Things were a little too sane around WSI for way too long.

champagne030
04-04-2007, 07:47 PM
God forbid a guy goes 0-4 with a walk and run in a game. Wow, does he suck. That one game sample is HUGE.
Oh, yeah, he had a pretty nice catch on that fly with the bases loaded, too.

Jeez. I think some of you dolts are as reactionary as the friggin' media. Yeah, they'll be jawing about the Sox and how they're in a tailspin tomorrow, too.

Compared to an NFL season, the past two games equal less than a QUARTER of football.
You guys would probably throw your favorite football team under the bus if it was a 10-0 deficit after the opening quarter of the season. They all suck. Get rid of 'em.

Take a valium. Hell, I'll write the script myself and send it to your ass.

"dolt"? "valium"? "send it to my ass"?

Who needs to calm down?

Turn your thong around, it's on backwards.

Jurr
04-04-2007, 07:49 PM
"dolt"? "valium"? "send it to my ass"?

Who needs to calm down?

Turn your thong around, it's on backwards.
Good points, man. I understand now. Pods sucks. You're right.

CHISOXFAN13
04-04-2007, 07:50 PM
Last I checked 7 was greater than 5. Wouldn't that mean the three runs the bullpen allowed in 1 2/3 lost the Sox this game?

*****.

Giving math lessons huh? Is 3 greater than zero? I think so, but since Garland gave up four a half-inning after the Sox staked JG to a 3-0 lead after one maybe I'm wrong.

The starting pitchers get a ****ing pass on this site for no reason.

Five runs in 5 1/3 innings is pathetic, whether you want to adnmit it or not.

If you are going to blame the "bullpen" can you at least pin it on the guy, Thornton, who strugled. Aardsma was the reason the Sox still had a chance in the ninth.

Jurr
04-04-2007, 07:54 PM
*****.

Giving math lessons huh? Is 3 greater than zero? I think so, but since Garland gave up four a half-inning after maybe I'm wrong.

The starting pitchers get a ****ing pass on this site for no reason.

Five runs in 5 1/3 innings is pathetic whether you want to adnmit it or not.

If you are going to blame the "bullpen" can you at least pin it on the guy who threw lousy. Aardsma was the reason the Sox still had a chance in the ninth.
Come on, man. It wasn't like they were playing in a dome or anything. Every pitcher was shaky. Those conditions are not conducive to pitching, which is why baseball's a spring/summer sport.

Jose Contreras gets no free passes. He sucked, plain and simple. Even Aardsma, who pitched his ass off, was extremely close to big trouble the second inning he pitched. Borowski was saved by a miracle catch.

Nobody could consistently hit the strike zone. Walks, hits, and homers galore.
I'd give Garland a free pass on this one, as most of the Sox franchise surely will. The winner of this game got lucky, no matter who won.

It just looks really bad because the Sox are 0-2, and after waiting months to see their team, the fans are going to get pissed.

CLR01
04-04-2007, 07:59 PM
*****.

Giving math lessons huh? Is 3 greater than zero? I think so, but since Garland gave up four a half-inning after the Sox staked JG to a 3-0 lead after one maybe I'm wrong.

The starting pitchers get a ****ing pass on this site for no reason.

Five runs in 5 1/3 innings is pathetic, whether you want to adnmit it or not.

If you are going to blame the "bullpen" can you at least pin it on the guy, Thornton, who strugled. Aardsma was the reason the Sox still had a chance in the ninth.


Good, you picked up on the concept.

3>0
4>3
5>4
5=5
7>5
8>7


Where did I give Garland a pass or refuse to admit 5 runs is pathetic? I guess tomorrow's lesson will be reading 101.

Jjav829
04-04-2007, 08:01 PM
Thank You. 103 posts into the thread, and someone finally mentioned the point I was going to bring up.

AJ starts the 8th with a double. Aardsma just struck out the side in the top half of the inning. Iguchi comes to the plate, who's already homered in the game and has been smoking the ball all over the field. The Sox have all of the momentum in the world on their side. No outs, possibly a chance to break open a nice big inning, and Ozzie asks Iguchi to bunt.

Although it's debatable about whether or not the time was appropriate, the hitter definitely wasn't appropriate. Maybe if Cintron or Pods was up, but not Iguchi.

Terrible managing by Ozzie.

I wouldn't say terrible managing. It's not a clear cut decision, just a matter of opinion. FWIW, I did say before the bunt was even shown that I wouldn't bunt with Iguchi, our best opposite field hitter, at bat. I would have let Iguchi hit and trust that he would hit the ball to the right side. But I can certainly understand Ozzie's reasoning, and if Iguchi does his job, we might be looking at a different outcome. And Iguchi deserves his share of blame as well, because he has to get that bunt down, regardless of whether it's the right call.

INSox56
04-04-2007, 08:03 PM
...watching the Minny game, I think there's something wrong with umpires today. Their ump is ALMOST as bad as our's was this afternoon. This had to be the absolute worst umpire I've ever seen in a game. This ump in the Minny game just missed 5 straight calls, and is still blowing calls left and right.

MCHSoxFan
04-04-2007, 08:17 PM
They started 1-4 last year, and ended up going 55-25 the next 80 games. Unfortunately, 34-43 the last 77 kinda ruined things.

Buehrle will win tomorrow. Vazquez and Danks will also win. Sunday--well, that may be another story. 3-3 by Sunday night, and we take 2 of 3 in Oakland. Yes, I said it.

EXACTLY WHAT I was thinking on the way home today. We won the home opener last year. Then we lost on ring and trophy day. I think we WILL WIN tomorrow. I think Danks will do really well. Javy will do pretty good. I think Jose will have a rebound on Sunday.

MCHSoxFan
04-04-2007, 08:23 PM
...watching the Minny game, I think there's something wrong with umpires today. Their ump is ALMOST as bad as our's was this afternoon. This had to be the absolute worst umpire I've ever seen in a game. This ump in the Minny game just missed 5 straight calls, and is still blowing calls left and right.

OUR home plate ump was the WORST. He was totally biased toward the indians. I was sitting in BOX136 row 7. I think I would know. Everybody was yelling and shouting at the ump in sections 135-138. I blame the loss of today's game 70% on the umpire, 20% on not getting clutch at-bats, and 10% on Matt and a bit on Mike in relief.:angry: :angry: :angry: :whiner: :whiner: :whiner:

Grzegorz
04-04-2007, 08:26 PM
What I want to know is where the heck did Jermaine Dye go? He was clutch last year. He struck out twice in key situations days, first in the 5th (Crede saved his butt with a 2-out 2 run RBI single) and again in the 9th. He just takes that last pitch for ball 4 the Crede's near HR is a sac-fly that ties the game.

Teammates are supposed to pick each other up. I am far less worried about our offensive attack than I am in the starting pitching.

This is a game that should have been won.

MarySwiss
04-04-2007, 08:26 PM
Wow, ten pages! No way I'm reading this. Plus I'm pretty sure I've heard a lot of it before.

Okay, fine. So they lost the first two games of the season. IIRC, didn't we kick the crap out of Cleveland last year in the opener and then go on a skid? I am not worried. Now if the boys get swept by these clowns and then get swept by the Twinks, I might find that a tad annoying.

So, my only real problem with this is that I have to keep ducking my Tribe fan friend (who is a single guy who was very close to getting invited over to Chez Swiss for Easter dinner--ham, candied yams, buttermilk biscuits, etc., yummy!--but that ain't gonna happen now, and I'll bet he reads this because I know he lurks).

C'mon, Sox! STOP SCREWING AROUND!!!

HawkDJ
04-04-2007, 08:30 PM
Wow, ten pages! No way I'm reading this. Plus I'm pretty sure I've heard a lot of it before.

Okay, fine. So they lost the first two games of the season. IIRC, didn't we kick the crap out of Cleveland last year in the opener and then go on a skid?

We started the year 1-4

Flight #24
04-04-2007, 08:51 PM
Just got home. What a horrendous game. Freezing, not a great crowd (no relation between the 2), and the Sox playing.....like a 72 win team.

It's just 2 games and it's a long season, that's what I keep telling myself. But there are some things that are very concerning to this fan.

#1 - After a poor 2d half performance in '06 and a poor spring, the SPs have started off poorly. That doesn't mean they can't/won't bounce back, but it's certainly concerning because the indications so far are that there isn't any improvement from '06.

#2 - The relief pitching was supposed to be much improved, but has been fairly spotty to date. Like everything else, this is subject to rapid change.

#3 - The offensive execution was poor in '06, and that continues. Both Monday and today, situational hitting was pretty bad. In the last 3 innings, there were numerous times there were men on 2d with <2out and not 1 hit. Iguchi's bunt looked like he'd never even tried one before (was he excluded from "the bunt field" in ST?). This is actually the most concerning of all because it's the one the Sox theoretically had the most control over.

The mantra this ST was "the pitchers will be better, the 'pen will be improved and we'll be back to executing when needed on O". So far, with admittedly only 2 games, the pitchers are performing the same or worse and the offense looks exactly the same. And there were small defensive miscues as well that hurt (throws getting away and letting runners advance, Konerko ole-ing a ball down the line). Things just aren't sharp.

At least Erstad looks good and Aaaaaaaaardsma as well. And the HRs are still there.

deepb
04-04-2007, 09:07 PM
But Sizemore? Grow the freak up already. So you guys have won 2 games out of 162. Big whoop. This wasn't for the division championship!
That's just the way Sizemore is - he plays every game like it's game 7 of the World Series. Personally, I don't see that as a "negative".. in fact, that's how Pete Rose approached every game during his playing days.

PS - I'm a Tribe fan, but I'm not here to talk bad about the Sox or even talk up the Tribe after the last two games. It's a long season, and both teams are going to have plenty of opportunities to basically negate whatever happens in this series (with wins OR losses).

Tragg
04-04-2007, 09:17 PM
I wouldn't say terrible managing. It's not a clear cut decision, just a matter of opinion. FWIW, I did say before the bunt was even shown that I wouldn't bunt with Iguchi, our best opposite field hitter, at bat. I would have let Iguchi hit and trust that he would hit the ball to the right side. But I can certainly understand Ozzie's reasoning, and if Iguchi does his job, we might be looking at a different outcome. And Iguchi deserves his share of blame as well, because he has to get that bunt down, regardless of whether it's the right call.

It's not just the bunt. What was Ozzie's plan for after the bunt...for Cintron (the worst hitter and least power hitter on the team) to hit a sac fly? That's proposterous strategy. What's Cintron pinch hitting for anyway?

Ozzie did NOT pinch hit Willie Harris in 2005.

Jjav829
04-04-2007, 09:27 PM
It's not just the bunt. What was Ozzie's plan for after the bunt...for Cintron (the worst hitter and least power hitter on the team) to hit a sac fly? That's proposterous strategy. What's Cintron pinch hitting for anyway?

Ozzie did NOT pinch hit Willie Harris in 2005.

We don't really know what his plan was. If Iguchi was gotten the runner over, maybe Ozzie would have trusted Uribe to hit a sac fly. Or maybe he would have pinch hit Mackowiak hoping to get a sac fly. Maybe he thought Cintron presented the best chance at getting a base hit after the failed bunt eliminated the sac fly. We don't really know and we can't assume Cintron would definitely have been the batter if the sac bunt was successful.

Jjav829
04-04-2007, 09:30 PM
That's just the way Sizemore is - he plays every game like it's game 7 of the World Series. Personally, I don't see that as a "negative".. in fact, that's how Pete Rose approached every game during his playing days.

PS - I'm a Tribe fan, but I'm not here to talk bad about the Sox or even talk up the Tribe after the last two games. It's a long season, and both teams are going to have plenty of opportunities to basically negate whatever happens in this series (with wins OR losses).

It's just a typical fan reaction when someone does that against your team. If a player on the other team shows too much emotion, he needs to calm down, etc.

If a player for your team does it, he's a grinder, plays with a lot of emotion/heart, etc. :smile:

102605
04-04-2007, 09:31 PM
It's not just the bunt. What was Ozzie's plan for after the bunt...for Cintron (the worst hitter and least power hitter on the team) to hit a sac fly? That's proposterous strategy. What's Cintron pinch hitting for anyway?

Ozzie did NOT pinch hit Willie Harris in 2005.

This is 2007 baseball.

I doubt Cintron would have PH for Uribe if Iguchi would have gotten the bunt down anyways. The batting situation changed and maybe Ozzie thought Absolu

Everyone is looking for someone to blame this on. I have not seen once mentioning Iguchi also hitting a 2 run HR also in this same game.

ilsox7
04-04-2007, 09:32 PM
We don't really know what his plan was. If Iguchi was gotten the runner over, maybe Ozzie would have trusted Uribe to hit a sac fly. Or maybe he would have pinch hit Mackowiak hoping to get a sac fly. Maybe he thought Cintron presented the best chance at getting a base hit after the failed bunt eliminated the sac fly. We don't really know and we can't assume Cintron would definitely have been the batter if the sac bunt was successful.

There is no guarantee, but Cintron was in the on-deck circle while Tad was trying to bunt. So I'd say it's rather likely he was hitting no matter what. It was a poor inning from both a managerial and execution standpoint, IMO.

Bill Naharodny
04-04-2007, 09:44 PM
Wow. Just wow.

Lose 2 games and MVP candidates are bums. It definitely is baseball season again. Things were a little too sane around WSI for way too long.

Glad you read my post closely. Wait, I'm looking back at what I wrote. Looking for the word "bum." Hmmm. Can't find it.

No, what I WROTE -- not what you read, I guess -- is that Dye's been slipping in the field for about a year. So, given what I wrote, who's jumping to conclusions -- me, based on something I've watched for 12 months -- or you, based on a post that you read for, oh, 2 seconds?

Try giving a full read to what I wrote, next time. Or is that barred by the WSI sanity that you describe?

HotelWhiteSox
04-04-2007, 09:50 PM
That's just the way Sizemore is - he plays every game like it's game 7 of the World Series. Personally, I don't see that as a "negative".. in fact, that's how Pete Rose approached every game during his playing days.

PS - I'm a Tribe fan, but I'm not here to talk bad about the Sox or even talk up the Tribe after the last two games. It's a long season, and both teams are going to have plenty of opportunities to basically negate whatever happens in this series (with wins OR losses).

I didn't think it was a big deal, it was a game deciding play, I would've been jumping if it was the other way around.

JB98
04-04-2007, 09:55 PM
This is 2007 baseball.

I doubt Cintron would have PH for Uribe if Iguchi would have gotten the bunt down anyways. The batting situation changed and maybe Ozzie thought Absolu

Everyone is looking for someone to blame this on. I have not seen once mentioning Iguchi also hitting a 2 run HR also in this same game.

Which is why I was hoping Ozzie would let Tad swing away. The tying run is already in scoring position. I wanted to take three shots to knock him in. At the very least, I trust Iguchi to hit the ball to the right side. Maybe he gets a base hit in the process. Still, if Tad is asked to bunt, he needs to get it done.It all goes back to pitching though. We've been touting our improved bullpen and mocking the Cleveland relief acquisitions all offseason. Today, we just got served. Their relievers got out of trouble. Our relievers couldn't. Even if Buerhle is no longer our Opening Day starter, he is still the leader of the staff. I'm looking for Mark to step up and stop the madness and restore sanity around here tomorrow.

oeo
04-04-2007, 10:02 PM
Even if Buerhle is no longer our Opening Day starter, he is still the leader of the staff. I'm looking for Mark to step up and stop the madness and restore sanity around here tomorrow.

:thumbsup:

Buehrle is our man, although some people don't want to admit it.

I guess two bad months (albeit very bad months) out of a six year career will have a fanbase lose faith in you like that. :dunno:

JB98
04-04-2007, 10:08 PM
:thumbsup:

Buehrle is our man, although some people don't want to admit it.

I guess two bad months (albeit very bad months) out of a six year career will have a fanbase lose faith in you like that. :dunno:

I would actually be surprised if Mark doesn't pitch well....

kitekrazy
04-04-2007, 10:08 PM
I know it's early but it seems like 2006 is still lingering.

1.Starters give up too many runs
2. Players don't execute with men on base.
3. Bullpen can't protect a lead.

slobes
04-04-2007, 10:13 PM
This is teh first time I can remember not being able to catch a single pitch of either of the first two games, but it looks like it's not such a bad thing. We need to find some pitching, pronto.

JB98
04-04-2007, 10:14 PM
I know it's early but it seems like 2006 is still lingering.

1.Starters give up too many runs
2. Players don't execute with men on base.
3. Bullpen can't protect a lead.

Protecting leads is key this year. We had 72 losses last season. We had the lead at some point in 45 of those defeats. That was the second-worst mark in the league. Today's game falls in that category.We're going to score runs. Despite all the hand-wringing about the lack of execution in the late innings today, I still see seven runs up on the board. That should be enough to win a game. I was at the game today, and it was a miserable day to pitch. Brutal weather and a tight strikezone. Still, the pitching staff needs to be better. I think they will be. I'm a little bit worried, but I think that's more my hatred of losing talking than any rational thought.

oeo
04-04-2007, 10:15 PM
I would actually be surprised if Mark doesn't pitch well....

Same here. I didn't feel as well about Jose or Jon, as I do about Mark tomorrow...he's going to be dealing. Hopefully the Sox can knock around Sowers and we can really beat up on them.

I know it's early but it seems like 2006 is still lingering.

1.Starters give up too many runs
2. Players don't execute with men on base.
3. Bullpen can't protect a lead.

1. Jose was absolutely terribe on Monday. At least Jon showed promise...he had a bad inning, but was pretty solid besides that.
2. True, hopefully this doesn't continue.
3. This is to be expected early in the year with this bullpen; they're young, they'll have their moments and then they won't. I have 100% faith that they will be rock solid by midseason, though. This is why the starters really need to step up right now.

JB98
04-04-2007, 10:19 PM
Same here. I didn't feel as well about Jose or Jon, as I do about Mark tomorrow...he's going to be dealing. Hopefully the Sox can knock around Sowers and we can really beat up on them.

I was really worried about Jon in the first inning today. He struggled in the first in several outings this spring. He survived it, and then we gave him a 3-run lead. I was feeling good at that point. The good feeling didn't last long. One of my pet peeves from last year was pitchers giving up runs the half inning after we score. God, I hope that second inning today was just a fluke occurrence. I don't want that trend to start again. I'll have an ulcer by the All-Star break.

CLR01
04-04-2007, 10:20 PM
This is teh first time I can remember not being able to catch a single pitch of either of the first two games

Maybe that's the problem. :angry:

RedPinStripes
04-04-2007, 10:26 PM
Damn, now the best they can possibly do is 160-2!:tongue:

RockJock07
04-04-2007, 10:27 PM
Some things i've been thinking.....

The only positive thing that i've seen in two games is Darin Erstad. He's in mid-season form and I want to see him in the lineup everyday. He'll be in San Fran for the all-star game.

I'm willing to give each starter a start to get themselves used to pitching in Chicago, not AZ. I'll give certain guys in the bulpen passes right now, but if in a week Sisco can't get it over the plate, then i'll start to worry.

However the lack of "small Ball' is starting to piss me off. We were all told this was "back to the grind" and that small ball would return in 07 and so far, at least today, the sox failed to excute anything they "worked" on during spring training.

I know he had a pinch hit double, but why is Brian Anderson on this team? He should be at Charlotte playing everyday, not sitting on the bench. Terrero should be on the team while Brian is refining his swing and offensive skills in general down at triple-A.

The Sox will win tomorrow and sweep the twins. The Twins have trash for starters other then Santana. The Sox will finish ahead of both cleveland and Minnesota mainly because the indians have no bulpen and it's only a matter of time before Joe Blow is gonna get lit up but AL teams. He's been shaky the past two days.

All in all, we are only 2 games in, there's reasons for hope but some key area's MUST be addressed before the Sox are in to deep that they can't dig out. Kenny and Ozzie have talked about short leash's and accountablity, and it'll be interesting to see how that plays out as the season wears on.

BanditJimmy
04-04-2007, 10:29 PM
My take so far:


Kenny's and Ozzie's goals for this year was to clean up our fundamentals and build a stronger bullpen.

1. No Fundamentals yet as seen by Iguchi's bunt attempt and also by the lack of execution in the late innings.

2. Bullpen blows right now

3. The rotation did not look good in the spring and so far Contreras and Garland left a lot to be desired.

4. Velocity, Velocity, Velocity ..... every one of our pitchers is experiencing a loss in velocity. But yet the 80 year old Roberto Hernadez was popping 93-95 mph both Monday and Today.


Weather should NEVER be an excuse to bad baseball because both teams play under the same conditions.

JB98
04-04-2007, 10:32 PM
Some things i've been thinking.....

The only positive thing that i've seen in two games is Darin Erstad. He's in mid-season form and I want to see him in the lineup everyday. He'll be in San Fran for the all-star game.

I'm willing to give each starter a start to get themselves used to pitching in Chicago, not AZ. I'll give certain guys in the bulpen passes right now, but if in a week Sisco can't get it over the plate, then i'll start to worry.

However the lack of &quot;small Ball' is starting to piss me off. We were all told this was &quot;back to the grind&quot; and that small ball would return in 07 and so far, at least today, the sox failed to excute anything they &quot;worked&quot; on during spring training.

I know he had a pinch hit double, but why is Brian Anderson on this team? He should be at Charlotte playing everyday, not sitting on the bench. Terrero should be on the team while Brian is refining his swing and offensive skills in general down at triple-A.

The Sox will win tomorrow and sweep the twins. The Twins have trash for starters other then Santana. The Sox will finish ahead of both cleveland and Minnesota mainly because the indians have no bulpen and it's only a matter of time before Joe Blow is gonna get lit up but AL teams. He's been shaky the past two days.

All in all, we are only 2 games in, there's reasons for hope but some key area's MUST be addressed before the Sox are in to deep that they can't dig out. Kenny and Ozzie have talked about short leash's and accountablity, and it'll be interesting to see how that plays out as the season wears on.

Lack of small ball? Erstad swiped two bags today. Pods also tried to steal, but got thrown out. They're trying to play small ball. Frankly, I wish they'd stop because Erstad is the only one who is good at it.

JermaineDye05
04-04-2007, 10:33 PM
Some things i've been thinking.....

The only positive thing that i've seen in two games is Darin Erstad. He's in mid-season form and I want to see him in the lineup everyday. He'll be in San Fran for the all-star game.

I'm willing to give each starter a start to get themselves used to pitching in Chicago, not AZ. I'll give certain guys in the bulpen passes right now, but if in a week Sisco can't get it over the plate, then i'll start to worry.

However the lack of "small Ball' is starting to piss me off. We were all told this was "back to the grind" and that small ball would return in 07 and so far, at least today, the sox failed to excute anything they "worked" on during spring training.

I know he had a pinch hit double, but why is Brian Anderson on this team? He should be at Charlotte playing everyday, not sitting on the bench. Terrero should be on the team while Brian is refining his swing and offensive skills in general down at triple-A.

The Sox will win tomorrow and sweep the twins. The Twins have trash for starters other then Santana. The Sox will finish ahead of both cleveland and Minnesota mainly because the indians have no bulpen and it's only a matter of time before Joe Blow is gonna get lit up but AL teams. He's been shaky the past two days.

All in all, we are only 2 games in, there's reasons for hope but some key area's MUST be addressed before the Sox are in to deep that they can't dig out. Kenny and Ozzie have talked about short leash's and accountablity, and it'll be interesting to see how that plays out as the season wears on.

Boof Bonser is far from trash, and Matt Garza should be damn good from what I hear. Ramon Ortiz had a solid outing today as well.

julio-cruz
04-04-2007, 10:34 PM
I was there at the game.
I just hope that the chemistry of this Team takes the same shape as the 2005 team. That is they key. And let me tell say, Darrin Earstad is a shot in the arm for this team. The veteran presence he brings is invaluable. If Pods can get to form, those two will be a killing tandem.
Very cool to see the new bullpen at Ozzie's disposal. If they are able to throw strikes, they are going to be tough!

BanditJimmy
04-04-2007, 10:38 PM
One thing about Pods that I'm getting sick of is his visits to the bullpen any time there is a pitching change.

Who is he, Manny now?


I'm surprised Ozzie has not mentioned this to him.

JB98
04-04-2007, 10:39 PM
I was there at the game.
I just hope that the chemistry of this Team takes the same shape as the 2005 team. That is they key. And let me tell say, Darrin Earstad is a shot in the arm for this team. The veteran presence he brings is invaluable. If Pods can get to form, those two will be a killing tandem.
Very cool to see the new bullpen at Ozzie's disposal. If they are able to throw strikes, they are going to be tough!

I'm worried about Pods. He got a good jump on that steal attempt, yet he still got thrown out by Victor Martinez, one of the weakest defensive catchers in the league. Erstad took the pitch because he saw how good of a jump Pods had. The fact that he got thrown out suggests the burst isn't back yet. Scott did make a fine catch in LF in the ninth inning today.

Jurr
04-04-2007, 10:40 PM
My take so far:


Kenny's and Ozzie's goals for this year was to clean up our fundamentals and build a stronger bullpen.

1. No Fundamentals yet as seen by Iguchi's bunt attempt and also by the lack of execution in the late innings.

2. Bullpen blows right now

3. The rotation did not look good in the spring and so far Contreras and Garland left a lot to be desired.

4. Velocity, Velocity, Velocity ..... every one of our pitchers is experiencing a loss in velocity. But yet the 80 year old Roberto Hernadez was popping 93-95 mph both Monday and Today.


Weather should NEVER be an excuse to bad baseball because both teams play under the same conditions.
I'll give you the execution thing. The Iguchi bunt was terrible. Given the fact that this has been the only real attempt so far, I guess you could say that fundamental execution leaves something to be desired.

Bullpen? Well, Masset was bad. Sisco was pretty good yesterday, and Jenks was awesome. Aardsma looked good. McDougal and Thornton? Who knows? They were playing out in the middle of crap all day.

Weather does have something to do with the pitching. Nobody looked dominant, and the guys that did were lucky. Everybody's velocity looked fine. It was location that screwed Contreras.

Let this team play some baseball before we make any rash judgements. Hell, it's two games. This past game is best defined as pitchers trying their best to overcome terrible conditions, and it came down to a crazy catch at the end to decide it. Period.

It's easy for people to look at the Sox right now and determine that things are terrible. Oh, the spring training stats were horrible, so any carry over to the regular season only fortifies the ill feelings toward what's going on right now. Not really.

This team is 0-2. They had to play catch-up from the drop of the hat in game 1 (blame Contreras) and flailed around all day in crappy conditions in the second. Beyond all of the struggles in game 2, a win was RIGHT THERE.

I guarantee you that a few wins will calm all of the complaints and over-analyzing down a ton.

Oh, and the weather does play a role in pitching. Ask anyone who's ever done it at a very high level. If you can't feel your fingertips, you can't control a fastball. You sure as hell can't get a breaking ball to cooperate. Just because one pitcher looked good, doesn't mean they all will. The game was 8-7, not 8-0. Both teams had trouble on the mound, because of the weather.

oeo
04-04-2007, 10:45 PM
Boof Bonser is far from trash, and Matt Garza should be damn good from what I hear. Ramon Ortiz had a solid outing today as well.

1)Garza is not in their rotation, and even if he was, he's not Francisco Liriano.
2)Just because Ramon Ortiz had a good outing, does not mean that he'll go out there and give them one every time. Just like Contreras and Garland won't be this bad the whole season.

Jurr
04-04-2007, 10:48 PM
1)Garza is not in their rotation, and even if he was, he's not Francisco Liriano.
2)Just because Ramon Ortiz had a good outing, does not mean that he'll go out there and give them one every time. Just like Contreras and Garland won't be this bad the whole season.
Don't tell some people on this site such things.

oeo
04-04-2007, 10:51 PM
Don't tell some people on this site such things.

They wouldn't be Sox fans if they didn't overreact.

I seriously can't believe how many people are on the ledge already. Did I miss something and the entire baseball season is only a 7 game series? This must be the thought in some people's minds with the, "We have the worst record in MLB" (which is actually false, but besides the point), "Not good" (what is not good?), etc. You'd think we're 0-20 right now; calm the **** down, people, we have a good team.

BanditJimmy
04-04-2007, 10:57 PM
I'll give you the execution thing. The Iguchi bunt was terrible. Given the fact that this has been the only real attempt so far, I guess you could say that fundamental execution leaves something to be desired.

Bullpen? Well, Masset was bad. Sisco was pretty good yesterday, and Jenks was awesome. Aardsma looked good. McDougal and Thornton? Who knows? They were playing out in the middle of crap all day.

Weather does have something to do with the pitching. Nobody looked dominant, and the guys that did were lucky. Everybody's velocity looked fine. It was location that screwed Contreras.

Let this team play some baseball before we make any rash judgements. Hell, it's two games. This past game is best defined as pitchers trying their best to overcome terrible conditions, and it came down to a crazy catch at the end to decide it. Period.

It's easy for people to look at the Sox right now and determine that things are terrible. Oh, the spring training stats were horrible, so any carry over to the regular season only fortifies the ill feelings toward what's going on right now. Not really.

This team is 0-2. They had to play catch-up from the drop of the hat in game 1 (blame Contreras) and flailed around all day in crappy conditions in the second. Beyond all of the struggles in game 2, a win was RIGHT THERE.

I guarantee you that a few wins will calm all of the complaints and over-analyzing down a ton.

Oh, and the weather does play a role in pitching. Ask anyone who's ever done it at a very high level. If you can't feel your fingertips, you can't control a fastball. You sure as hell can't get a breaking ball to cooperate. Just because one pitcher looked good, doesn't mean they all will. The game was 8-7, not 8-0. Both teams had trouble on the mound, because of the weather.

"Everybody's velocity looked fine"

Not sure if Contreras topping out at 91 mph yesterday and Garland at 88 today makes me feel that "velocity looked fine"

On the other side you have the 80 yr old Roberto Hernandez pumping 95 mph fastballs on us, and he was pitching in the cold weather also and coming back from an appearance on Monday.


Only time will tell if these guys arms are healthy or not.

oeo
04-04-2007, 10:59 PM
Only time will tell if these guys arms are healthy or not.

Yep, I'm sure the best training staff in the league just happened to miss the injuries of our entire pitching staff.

They were garbage in the first two games because they were throwing belt-high fastballs down the middle. If you want to give those pitches to major leaguers, they'll say, "Thank you," and that's exactly what they did.

gobears1987
04-04-2007, 11:02 PM
1)Garza is not in their rotation, and even if he was, he's not Francisco Liriano.
2)Just because Ramon Ortiz had a good outing, does not mean that he'll go out there and give them one every time. Just like Contreras and Garland won't be this bad the whole season.
This post makes the most sense of any in this thread.

Tragg
04-04-2007, 11:06 PM
We don't really know what his plan was. If Iguchi was gotten the runner over, maybe Ozzie would have trusted Uribe to hit a sac fly. Or maybe he would have pinch hit Mackowiak hoping to get a sac fly. Maybe he thought Cintron presented the best chance at getting a base hit after the failed bunt eliminated the sac fly. We don't really know and we can't assume Cintron would definitely have been the batter if the sac bunt was successful.
Using your worst hitter as a pinch hitter in an incredibly important point in the game defies credulity.
Iguchi made a physical mistake - he can fix that.
But if this is the level of decision-making Guillen is going to offer this team this year - we're in trouble.
And I still say he didn't do this BS in 2004 and 2005; it was AFTER we won the WS he started acting like a screwball.

JB98
04-04-2007, 11:18 PM
Using your worst hitter as a pinch hitter in an incredibly important point in the game defies credulity.
Iguchi made a physical mistake - he can fix that.
But if this is the level of decision-making Guillen is going to offer this team this year - we're in trouble.
And I still say he didn't do this BS in 2004 and 2005; it was AFTER we won the WS he started acting like a screwball.

Cintron is our worst hitter? Really?

JGarlandrules20
04-04-2007, 11:19 PM
My legs are still frozen. It would have made being in the cold a lot better if the sox had come through in the end. What a heart breaker.

Oh well. 160 more games! I don't understand how people can judge the first two games of the season so critically.

julio-cruz
04-04-2007, 11:23 PM
I'm worried about Pods. He got a good jump on that steal attempt, yet he still got thrown out by Victor Martinez, one of the weakest defensive catchers in the league. Erstad took the pitch because he saw how good of a jump Pods had. The fact that he got thrown out suggests the burst isn't back yet. Scott did make a fine catch in LF in the ninth inning today.


It seems that Podsednik picks the wrong counts to run on. From what I remember he ran on a pitch that HAD to be thrown for a strike. It was also apparent that Erstad had a better idea of when an off-speed pitch was going to be thrown. So, he was confident enough to steal. I think Podsednik believes he gets inside of pitchers heads more than he actually does. LOL! All of the dancing and big leads kind of make it more obvious when he is going to run.
Also, I wouldn't be surprised to see Josh Fields out there next year instead of him. Also, us trying to get Ichiro to play right and leadoff. Podsednik makes his catches look a lot more difficult than they need to be. However, when he is stealing bases for us, that is when he is serving his purpose for this team.
OK enough critiquing. Thank god, Buddha or whomever-- baseball is in full swing! It's the real thing!

IndianWhiteSox
04-04-2007, 11:26 PM
My legs are still frozen. It would have made being in the cold a lot better if the sox had come through in the end. What a heart breaker.

Oh well. 160 more games! I don't understand how people can judge the first two games of the season so critically.


No you're wrong! We should just give up since we can't wire to wire this year and our whole pitching staff has just lost it.
:rolleyes:

But seriously, there is PLENTY of time for them to come out of this "funk". I mean if you don't believe me just think back to '83 and '00 when those teams were not that hot to start off with but still dominated the division.

robinohio2
04-04-2007, 11:32 PM
Is anyone starting to worry about Cleveland?

JB98
04-04-2007, 11:32 PM
My legs are still frozen. It would have made being in the cold a lot better if the sox had come through in the end. What a heart breaker.

Oh well. 160 more games! I don't understand how people can judge the first two games of the season so critically.

People will settle down a little bit after we get our first win. Also, I think some here are aggravated because today's loss looked a lot like the losses we suffered through the second half of 2006. No one wants a repeat of that, and some people are a little nervous that this is how it's going to be from now on. As Sox fans, our collective confidence is always a little shaky.

JB98
04-04-2007, 11:33 PM
Is anyone starting to worry about Cleveland?

Is the river on fire again?

IndianWhiteSox
04-04-2007, 11:37 PM
Is anyone starting to worry about Cleveland?

Considering the fact that play in Cleveland? NO

oeo
04-04-2007, 11:41 PM
Is anyone starting to worry about Cleveland?

Ugh...nothing like an opposing fan coming over and asking us if we're worried about the Indians. No, I'm not worried about the Indians. If I was worried about anyone, it would be the Sox.

You should, on the other hand, be worried about your closer. How long do you think he lasts in that role?

ThomesHomie
04-04-2007, 11:41 PM
I don't understand why everyone is so quick to jump on the wagon.

Same old soxs ? Its the second game of the year, and lets not forget how cold it was outside today.

I'm not worried yet about our pitching, Garland had to fight the cold, Jose, well maybe it was opening day jitters.

Its only two games, the season is not over.

Viva Medias B's
04-04-2007, 11:42 PM
There is no reason to be pessismistic over the first two games of the season, as truly frustrating as they have been. We have the talent to win the division and beyond, and I expect us to do that. And if we turn out to fall short of that, KW will do something about it.

PeoriaSoxFan
04-04-2007, 11:42 PM
The troublesome thing is a)we couldn't scratch out a single run against a bad bullpen (statistically, the offense is good - always is except for the year that we won the WS) and b) a manager who seems to be managing based on his pet theories - for example, batting the 4th best hitter on this team in the 8 hole.
Speaking of which - we have our 4th best hitter bunt with a runner on 2nd and no one out so that 2 far inferior hitters behind him can take a shot at driving in a run? Give up Iguchi so that poor-hitting Cintron can drive him in? That's laughable. The only thing more ridiculous is using the worst hitter on the team, Cintron, as a pinch hitter in the first place. How about, perhaps using Rob M who actually knows how to HIT as a pinch hitter?

I didn't get that move either. Mack would have been a better option than Cintron, I think and I would have settled for leaving Uribe in. I love Ozzie and hope he stays here forever, but I think he went a little too by the book and righty lefty thing today. It would be nice if our LH pitchers could get LH hitters out. I am tempted to panic, but it is early and too early to be second guessing as well. Cleveland just owns our pitching. They really have hit Buerhle as of late as well. Hope Mark turns it around. We need a few wins going into Oakland. Danks pitching Sunday is scary and Santanna against us Sunday is worse. Or course, anyone pitching for us right now is kind of scary. Ok, I said it is too early to panic and here I am doing it. Please win tomorrow Sox.

PeoriaSoxFan
04-04-2007, 11:44 PM
There is no reason to be pessismistic over the first two games of the season, as truly frustrating as they have been. We have the talent to win the division and beyond, and I expect us to do that. And if we turn out to fall short of that, KW will do something about it.

I hope the latter isn't true. Can you imagine the white flag trades that could be made this year with so many contracts coming due? Hope we never find out and here's to our pitching turning it around. If the pitching can turn it around, this team could be very tough.

starboy0
04-05-2007, 06:56 AM
People will settle down a little bit after we get our first win. Also, I think some here are aggravated because today's loss looked a lot like the losses we suffered through the second half of 2006. ...

You hit the nail on the head. How many times did we see in the second half last year taking a lead then the next inning surrendering runs?

soxinem1
04-05-2007, 07:13 AM
Losses are compiled by a TEAM, not individuals. Singling out someone who blew a play or got caught stealing is nonsense. Errors, caught-stealings, etc. are part of the game.

Weather is no excuse either. The other team has to play too. And two losses to start a season is not a 'major league first'.

The Pirates are 3-0, Cards 0-3. Whoopdy Doo!

If after 20 games they are 2-18 or 6-14 sure, sound an alarm. But I remember the 1983 and 1993 White Sox starts were pretty brutal Opening Day 1983 was a mess and in 1993 I remember Bobby Thigpen getting booed out of Illinois on Opening Day......... And they both went on to win divisions.

I also remember the 1987 and 1989 White Sox starting 2-0, then battling last place syndrome the rest of the year.

Settle down folks. Give the season a chance.

Hokiesox
04-05-2007, 08:01 AM
You hit the nail on the head. How many times did we see in the second half last year taking a lead then the next inning surrendering runs?

I didn't tune in to gamecast until after the top of the second. I looked at the Sox 3 in the bottom of the first and saw 4 for the Tribe in the top 2. My comment to my wife? "Looks like last year, **** them." I kept watching, but yesterday's game was truly frustrating. 2006 is over but it was the same ol' story.

SoxFan78
04-05-2007, 09:04 AM
I was at the game yesterday. Felt even colder then game 2 of the World Series. The pitching really needs to step up. Yeah its early, but you cant blow two leads.

JD needs to come back with his bat and defense. Hopefully they will win today since I wont be there.

Flight #24
04-05-2007, 09:23 AM
There is no reason to be pessismistic over the first two games of the season, as truly frustrating as they have been. We have the talent to win the division and beyond, and I expect us to do that. And if we turn out to fall short of that, KW will do something about it.

The reasons to be pessimistic are 1)a poor 2d half last year, 2)a poor ST performance, and 3)so far, a poor start to the year.

I fully agree with the sentiment that it's way early and things can change significantly. But the datapoints so far are not pointing upwards. When the best comment that can be made is "well, it's early" and "I think these guys can rebound to how they played 2 years ago", IMO that's not a good sign.

Faith is nice. Faith with supporting data is far nicer.

sox1970
04-05-2007, 09:29 AM
The reasons to be pessimistic are 1)a poor 2d half last year, 2)a poor ST performance, and 3)so far, a poor start to the year.

I fully agree with the sentiment that it's way early and things can change significantly. But the datapoints so far are not pointing upwards. When the best comment that can be made is "well, it's early" and "I think these guys can rebound to how they played 2 years ago", IMO that's not a good sign.

Faith is nice. Faith with supporting data is far nicer.

Post of the day, and maybe the year.

oeo
04-05-2007, 09:37 AM
The reasons to be pessimistic are 1)a poor 2d half last year, 2)a poor ST performance, and 3)so far, a poor start to the year.

If you want to use the poor ST performance, I might give you that. Although, last year we only won one more game, and we weren't exactly stellar in 2005, either. Besides that, though, what does the 2nd half of last year have to do with this team? It's a different team, and a different year; you can't make judgments based on what happened last year. This is the same as people thinking we were going to the playoffs last year because we won in 2005; how did that work out?

I fully agree with the sentiment that it's way early and things can change significantly. But the datapoints so far are not pointing upwards. When the best comment that can be made is "well, it's early" and "I think these guys can rebound to how they played 2 years ago", IMO that's not a good sign.

Faith is nice. Faith with supporting data is far nicer.

Two games...that's all we've played is two games. Again, you can't use the 2nd half of last year to judge this team. We have a lot of talent, and that should be reason enough to know that we're not going to lose 90 games this year. So it's not just "faith", we have a good team backing it up. We're not the Devil Rays...we're one of the best teams in all of baseball.

spiffie
04-05-2007, 09:39 AM
This was the best team in baseball the day spring training ended. This was the best team in baseball after Opening Day. This was the best team in baseball last night. This is still the best team in baseball this morning. Everyone relax. You can't win 100 games without losing 62 of them. Instead of getting to cruise along to a 98-62 record the rest of the way, they'll just have to go 100-60. Oh well.

Gammons Peter
04-05-2007, 09:43 AM
Someone just told me that we are 10 games under .500 since last years all-star break.

veeter
04-05-2007, 09:45 AM
Two games into the season and you've already lost confidence in Pods?Yes. Because Pods can't run anymore. He got a great jump and was thrown out by a terrible throwing catcher, by a mile. He was thrown out all spring training also. Jerry Owens is two steps faster than Pods at this point. And speed is the only reason Scotty is in there. Go with Erstad in left with BA in center. Or Pablo in left, w/ Erstad in center.

itsnotrequired
04-05-2007, 09:51 AM
Yes. Because Pods can't run anymore. He got a great jump and was thrown out by a terrible throwing catcher, by a mile. He was thrown out all spring training also. Jerry Owens is two steps faster than Pods at this point. And speed is the only reason Scotty is in there. Go with Erstad in left with BA in center. Or Pablo in left, w/ Erstad in center.

It was insanely cold yesterday. Like others have said, its been two games. Relax.

sox1970
04-05-2007, 09:53 AM
Someone just told me that we are 10 games under .500 since last years all-star break.

The Sox finished 34-43 last year, so now 34-45 the last 79 regular season games. These are facts. I'm not making this **** up.

...and i'm only bringing this up because 4/5 of the rotation is back, with a rookie. They need to prove to me that they are a good team all over again. 2005 is long over.

Jjav829
04-05-2007, 09:54 AM
Using your worst hitter as a pinch hitter in an incredibly important point in the game defies credulity.
Iguchi made a physical mistake - he can fix that.
But if this is the level of decision-making Guillen is going to offer this team this year - we're in trouble.
And I still say he didn't do this BS in 2004 and 2005; it was AFTER we won the WS he started acting like a screwball.

Stop saying Cintron is our worst hitter as if it's actually a significant point. If Cintron is our worst hitter (and you're not going to convince me he's a worse hitter than Molina, or even BA at this point), it's a very marginal difference between him and the players better. Cintron hit .285 in limited playing time last year and is a career .281 hitter.

And who were his other options? Rob Mackowiak, Gustavo Molina, Brian Anderson or sticking with Uribe. There's not a big difference in talent between that group. You make it sound like Ozzie had a choice between Brian Anderson and Paul Konerko and went with Anderson. He's chosing from a bunch of bench-level talent players. In that situation, it's not even a question of talent. It's a matter of who Ozzie feels most comfortable with in that situation, based on factors like pinch-hitting experience/success, ability to put the ball in play (Cintron is a much better contact hitter) and even just a hunch for which player is more likely to come through with a big hit.

veeter
04-05-2007, 09:56 AM
It was insanely cold yesterday. Like others have said, its been two games. Relax.I'll try. Nothing a win today can't fix.

jabrch
04-05-2007, 09:57 AM
Some things i've been thinking.....

The only positive thing that i've seen in two games is Darin Erstad.

Did you see Aardsma yesterday? Sisco on Monday? Jenks on Monday? Konerko hitting well two days in a row? AJ and Uribe hitting the ball?

If the only positive thing you have seen is Erstad, you aren't watching the games much.

Jerko
04-05-2007, 11:16 AM
That meatball Thome got in the first that scored 3 runs was because of the ump.

Yeah, we can't blame the ump. That annoying habit of giving up runs right after we score may be something to see if we can work on though. And Ozzie; Sizemore and Hafner can HIT lefties you know. Half of their runs came yesterday after pitching "matchup" moves.... Then again I wouldn't have brought Aardsma in either but he kicked ass.

Jerko
04-05-2007, 11:26 AM
- Iguchi couldn't get down a bunt after Pierzynski doubled to lead off the 8th. We stranded AJ, who was the tying run.


When the Sox bunted monday when it was what, 9-2, I thought that was the worst bunt call I ever saw. I changed my mind yesterday. Roberto was in that game cold, gave up a screamer to the first guy he faced, then the circus started. Failed bunt, pinch runner AFTER the failed bunt, a cold Cintron off the bench to pinch hit for Uribe, and Pods hitting for himself. I also can't believe that Martinez actually threw a guy out stealing. That cost us a run too. So, as bad as the game went, the Sox still could have won. Let's get the first one and start rolling. Nobody else looks unbeatable so we just have to get on a few good rolls.

RockJock07
04-05-2007, 11:58 AM
Pods should have been gone last year. You mean to tell me that the Devil Rays wouldn't have given up Carl Crawford for Brandon or Phillips/Heager?

Kenny is great at making deals, I expected him to find a way to get CC and get rid of Uribe. In terms of the line-up, LF and SS are the weak links and should have been upgraded.

Carl Crawford, Erstand, Thome, Konerko, Dye....Wow.

But instead we have a washed up Pods in left, like someone said, 2005 is over, it's time for some new, young talent. Jerry Owens is better option to lead off for this team.

spiffie
04-05-2007, 12:32 PM
Pods should have been gone last year. You mean to tell me that the Devil Rays wouldn't have given up Carl Crawford for Brandon or Phillips/Heager?
I'm pretty sure that would not have happened anywhere except on your Playstation.

Beer Can Chicken
04-05-2007, 12:41 PM
Pods should have been gone last year. You mean to tell me that the Devil Rays wouldn't have given up Carl Crawford for Brandon or Phillips/Heager?

Kenny is great at making deals, I expected him to find a way to get CC and get rid of Uribe. In terms of the line-up, LF and SS are the weak links and should have been upgraded.

Carl Crawford, Erstand, Thome, Konerko, Dye....Wow.

But instead we have a washed up Pods in left, like someone said, 2005 is over, it's time for some new, young talent. Jerry Owens is better option to lead off for this team.

Answer me this boy wonder:
CC is signed a 6 year deal for $30 million that expires in 2010. Why would a small market team give up a player like of his caliber making that small of a salary?

oeo
04-05-2007, 12:52 PM
Pods should have been gone last year. You mean to tell me that the Devil Rays wouldn't have given up Carl Crawford for Brandon or Phillips/Heager?

Carl Crawford is one of the best outfielders in the game...so yes, it would have taken more than just McCarthy, or Phillips/Haeger (are you serious?).

Kenny is great at making deals, I expected him to find a way to get CC and get rid of Uribe. In terms of the line-up, LF and SS are the weak links and should have been upgraded.

Carl Crawford, Erstand, Thome, Konerko, Dye....Wow.

But instead we have a washed up Pods in left, like someone said, 2005 is over, it's time for some new, young talent. Jerry Owens is better option to lead off for this team.

Next year the best leadoff hitter in the game will be on the market. We may go after him, instead of us signing a guy like Roberts, Pierre, or Matthews. And to those of you that say the Sox are too cheap...they have the fourth largest payroll in the league behind the Yankees, Red Sox, and Mets.

PalehosePlanet
04-05-2007, 12:58 PM
No one panic yet PLEASE! Tampa wants waaay too much for Baldelli much less Crawford.

As far as the payroll issue goes: Are we really higher than the cubs? I haven't seen this year's payrolls posted anywhere yet.

Flight #24
04-05-2007, 01:03 PM
Two games...that's all we've played is two games. Again, you can't use the 2nd half of last year to judge this team. We have a lot of talent, and that should be reason enough to know that we're not going to lose 90 games this year. So it's not just "faith", we have a good team backing it up. We're not the Devil Rays...we're one of the best teams in all of baseball.

You'd feel better if I say "Garland, Contreras, Buehrle and the Sox offensive execution was bad in the 2d half, bad in ST, and bad so far"? Fine. The point still stands.

Your comment that the Sox are "one of the best teams in all of baseball" is not based on performance. Because since midseason last year, their performance is decidedly not that.

Hopefully it changes starting today.

oeo
04-05-2007, 01:24 PM
You'd feel better if I say "Garland, Contreras, Buehrle and the Sox offensive execution was bad in the 2d half, bad in ST, and bad so far"? Fine. The point still stands.

Garland was bad in the 2nd half last year? Could have fooled me.

Your comment that the Sox are "one of the best teams in all of baseball" is not based on performance. Because since midseason last year, their performance is decidedly not that.

Hopefully it changes starting today.

They're one of the best teams based on talent. They had a tough second half last year, but that doesn't mean they will continue that this year.

MRM
04-05-2007, 02:22 PM
Pods should have been gone last year. You mean to tell me that the Devil Rays wouldn't have given up Carl Crawford for Brandon or Phillips/Heager?

Kenny is great at making deals, I expected him to find a way to get CC and get rid of Uribe. In terms of the line-up, LF and SS are the weak links and should have been upgraded.

Carl Crawford, Erstand, Thome, Konerko, Dye....Wow.

But instead we have a washed up Pods in left, like someone said, 2005 is over, it's time for some new, young talent. Jerry Owens is better option to lead off for this team.

Hmmm. 5-tool Superstar with a club favorable contract for an unproven McCarthy and/or Phillips-Haeger? You couldn't find someone dumb enough to make *that* deal in Yahoo fantasy baseball. Do you think Kenny has some kind of hypnotic powers that turn professional GMs into complete idiots, or something?

Uribe is HARDLY a "weak link". Not only is he one of the better defensive SS in the league, offensively he's quite productive. MOST teams would be thrilled with their NINTH hitter knocking out 20+ HRs and driving in 70RBI.

Podsednik is "washed up"? Interesting comment about a guy who has more stolen bases over the last 4 years than anyone else in the game. The guy had played ONE game since his surgery when you declared him done.

This lineup is NOT going to be a problem barring injury.