PDA

View Full Version : Final bullpen spots


JB98
03-28-2007, 09:53 PM
Aardsma and Sisco are staying. Logan and Floyd to Charlotte.

sox1970
03-28-2007, 10:05 PM
Source?

JB98
03-28-2007, 10:08 PM
Source?

Whalen from the Southtown.

CHIsoxNation
03-28-2007, 10:09 PM
They said it on Comcast during the 6:30 show. Logan didn't seem too happy. He said the Sox put him in a hole before camp even started by trading for guys to have in the pen and that you normally won't send down guys you trade for. I wouldn't be surprised if Logan is found a new home soon.

ilsox7
03-28-2007, 10:10 PM
They said it on Comcast during the 6:30 show. Logan didn't seem too happy. He said the Sox put him in a hole before camp even started by trading for guys to have in the pen and that you normally won't send down guys you trade for. I wouldn't be surprised if Logan is found a new home soon.

Boone and his ****ty attitude need to shut the **** up.

JB98
03-28-2007, 10:10 PM
They said it on Comcast during the 6:30 show. Logan didn't seem too happy. He said the Sox put him in a hole before camp even started by trading for guys to have in the pen and that you normally won't send down guys you trade for. I wouldn't be surprised if Logan is found a new home soon.

If Logan had made more of his opportunity last season, perhaps KW wouldn't have had to make those deals.

CHIsoxNation
03-28-2007, 10:13 PM
If Logan had made more of his opportunity last season, perhaps KW wouldn't have had to make those deals.

No kidding.

His trade value is pretty high right now with the great spring he had. Hopefully Kenny can ship him out for another good young arm or package him for something better.

sox1970
03-28-2007, 10:16 PM
Tough break for Logan. He gets a pass if he's pissed today. Hopefully he goes to Charlotte, gets the job done, and he'll be back.

Quite frankly, I'm taking a wait and see approach with this bullpen. 6 weeks ago, this bullpen looked damn good on paper. Now I'm a little concerned about Sisco and Aardsma's control, and Jenks' velocity. I know Jenks usually ramps up toward opening day, but the shoulder stiffness he had earlier is something to keep an eye on.

CHIsoxNation
03-28-2007, 10:18 PM
Tough break for Logan. He gets a pass if he's pissed today. Hopefully he goes to Charlotte, gets the job done, and he'll be back.

Quite frankly, I'm taking a wait and see approach with this bullpen. 6 weeks ago, this bullpen looked damn good on paper. Now I'm a little concerned about Sisco and Aardsma's control, and Jenks' velocity. I know Jenks usually ramps up toward opening day, but the shoulder stiffness he had earlier is something to keep an eye on.

I guess Ozzie did say that both Aardsma and Sisco are on short leashes and that he won't hesitate to bring back up Logan or Floyd if one struggles. So many young inexperienced guys in the bullpen is really starting to worry me.

JermaineDye05
03-28-2007, 10:19 PM
I can honestly say I really don't like Boone's attitude, even if he's right or wrong he needs to learn to keep his mouth shut. Wasn't he in A ball just over a year ago?

thomas35forever
03-28-2007, 10:21 PM
Logan?! Ya gotta be kidding me. A guy who doesn't give up an earned run all spring should be on our roster. They must see a better future for Aardsma.

Jjav829
03-28-2007, 10:25 PM
Logan?! Ya gotta be kidding me. A guy who doesn't give up an earned run all spring should be on our roster. They must see a better future for Aardsma.

Or perhaps they didn't feel it was necessary to carry 3 lefties on the team, especially since they've been impressed with what Masset can do against lefties.

As for L:whiner:gan....boo-hoo. How dare Kenny bring in competition for a guy who boasted a sparkling 8.31 ERA last season! The nerve of him. KW should have just put all his stock into Logan and hoped for the best.

JermaineDye05
03-28-2007, 10:26 PM
Logan?! Ya gotta be kidding me. A guy who doesn't give up an earned run all spring should be on our roster. They must see a better future for Aardsma.

I think Logan didn't make the roster 1) because we already have 2 lefties 2) Sisco has an advantage with a little more giddy up on his fastball and 3) last seasons meltdown.

JB98
03-28-2007, 10:27 PM
I guess Ozzie did say that both Aardsma and Sisco are on short leashes and that he won't hesitate to bring back up Logan or Floyd if one struggles. So many young inexperienced guys in the bullpen is really starting to worry me.

Remember how bad Cotts, McCarthy and Riske were last year? They sucked. I suppose it's possible Masset, Aardsma and Sisco will be worse, but I don't think it's likely.

Our bullpen was a colossal failure last year. I'm still concerned about it, I figure the talent level is higher this season.

champagne030
03-28-2007, 10:30 PM
I guess Ozzie did say that both Aardsma and Sisco are on short leashes and that he won't hesitate to bring back up Logan or Floyd if one struggles. So many young inexperienced guys in the bullpen is really starting to worry me.

I'd rather have Logan and Sisco if Aardsma cannot throw strikes. Regardless, what's wrong with Haegar if Aardsma fails? Gavin "blowtorch" Floyd has been beyond terrible for years. They would consider putting him in the 'pen with people on base? Hopefully that's just talk to appease trade bashers and try to put Floyd in a good frame of mind.

SoxRox
03-28-2007, 10:31 PM
Boone and his ****ty attitude need to shut the **** up.


Let's not start dumping on Ol' Boone, now. He had a very good Spring and is rightfully dissappointed not to make the team. He might get pulled up if the Sox put Toby Hall on the 60 day DL.

-SoxRox

ilsox7
03-28-2007, 10:32 PM
Let's not start dumping on Ol' Boone, now. He had a very good Spring and is rightfully dissappointed not to make the team. He might get pulled up if the Sox put Toby Hall on the 60 day DL.

-SoxRox

And there were also problems with his attitude when he was sent down last year. And he also said during this spring training that he had learned from that experience. And now he is apparently pulling the same **** again.

Jjav829
03-28-2007, 10:33 PM
Let's not start dumping on Ol' Boone, now. He had a very good Spring and is rightfully dissappointed not to make the team. He might get pulled up if the Sox put Toby Hall on the 60 day DL.

-SoxRox

There's a difference between being disappointed in not making the team and claiming the organization set you up to fail (if those were indeed his exact words) by bringing in competition.

Toby Hall's situation has absolutely no effect on Logan's status.

JermaineDye05
03-28-2007, 10:34 PM
Remember how bad Cotts, McCarthy and Riske were last year? They sucked. I suppose it's possible Masset, Aardsma and Sisco will be worse, but I don't think it's likely.

Our bullpen was a colossal failure last year. I'm still concerned about it, I figure the talent level is higher this season.

the difference between McCarthy, Riske, and Cotts and Masset, Aardsma, and Sisco is that with McCarthy/Riske/Cotts neither of them could really get it past 93 I believe Neal was maxed out at about 89-91 and McCarthy was never really a reliever. With Masset/Aardsma/Sisco they at least can get it at 94+, you can get away with mistakes more often with a fastball around 95 than a fastball topped out at 90. Also the stuff is a lot better, and Masset is a stud plain and simple from what I've heard he'll probably be one of the set-up men by the end of the season.

Lip Man 1
03-28-2007, 10:36 PM
Jjav:

Logan did say that having acquired guys who had more experience in the bigs put him at a disadvantage.

Lip

CHIsoxNation
03-28-2007, 10:37 PM
There's a difference between being disappointed in not making the team and claiming the organization set you up to fail (if those were indeed his exact words) by bringing in competition.

Toby Hall's situation has absolutely no effect on Logan's status.

Yep, that's pretty much what Logan was implying it sounded like. The interview will probably be on again tonight on Comcast. I know I was angry watching that interview, I couldn't imagine what Kenny's thoughts were.

champagne030
03-28-2007, 10:38 PM
the difference between McCarthy, Riske, and Cotts and Masset, Aardsma, and Sisco is that with McCarthy/Riske/Cotts neither of them could really get it past 93 I believe Neal was maxed out at about 89-91 and McCarthy was never really a reliever. With Masset/Aardsma/Sisco they at least can get it at 94+, you can get away with mistakes more often with a fastball around 95 than a fastball topped out at 90. Also the stuff is a lot better, and Masset is a stud plain and simple from what I've heard he'll probably be one of the set-up men by the end of the season.

I agree with the bold, but it doesn't matter it they cannot hit the side of a barn with that heat. Their success will be determined by whether they can throw strikes on a regular basis.

oeo
03-28-2007, 10:40 PM
They said it on Comcast during the 6:30 show. Logan didn't seem too happy. He said the Sox put him in a hole before camp even started by trading for guys to have in the pen and that you normally won't send down guys you trade for. I wouldn't be surprised if Logan is found a new home soon.

Wow Boone, you're really not helping your situation at all. You're digging your "hole" deeper and deeper.

I don't think we'll ever see him in a Sox uniform again...who will he be traded for is the question.

JB98
03-28-2007, 10:40 PM
I'd rather have Logan and Sisco if Aardsma cannot throw strikes. Regardless, what's wrong with Haegar if Aardsma fails? Gavin "blowtorch" Floyd has been beyond terrible for years. They would consider putting him in the 'pen with people on base? Hopefully that's just talk to appease trade bashers and try to put Floyd in a good frame of mind.

I actually think Sisco has more trouble throwing strikes than Aardsma. This may be a little bit unpopular, but I'm on board with the decision to keep Aardsma. For me, it came down to Sisco and Logan. I just can't get over how ineffective Logan was last season with the Sox: Mental mistakes and wildness. I know this year is a new year, but Logan is still a little bit on my **** list.

Everyone knows I'm no friend of Gavin Floyd. He belongs in triple-A.

JermaineDye05
03-28-2007, 10:42 PM
Wow Boone, you're really not helping your situation at all. You're digging your "hole" deeper and deeper.

I don't think we'll ever see him in a Sox uniform again...who will he be traded for is the question.

Henry Blanco

oeo
03-28-2007, 10:44 PM
Henry Blanco

**** Hank White. Sorry, but not only will it take more than a LOOGY to get him, he wouldn't be worth it all. Why does everyone love this guy so much?

California Sox
03-28-2007, 10:45 PM
I have to say I agree with Logan. Aardsma and Sisco did not win jobs, they had them handed to them. Now, maybe that faith will be rewarded but at this point if I were Logan and I hadn't given up a run all spring I'd be steamed too. Of course, I hope I'd be smart enough not to have it captured on videotape.

And while Logan may not have taken advantage of his opportunity last year, Sisco posted a 7.10 in a hell of a lot more innings. I hope he's on a short leash.

oeo
03-28-2007, 10:46 PM
I have to say I agree with Logan. Aardsma and Sisco did not win jobs, they had them handed to them. Now, maybe that faith will be rewarded but at this point if I were Logan and I hadn't given up a run all spring I'd be steamed too. Of course, I hope I'd be smart enough not to have it captured on videotape.

And while Logan may not have taken advantage of his opportunity last year, Sisco posted a 7.10 in a hell of a lot more innings. I hope he's on a short leash.

Seems to me that Logan is more in the doghouse than anything. He isn't afraid to say what's on his mind...and when you're a young guy trying to make it to the big leagues, that's not helping at all.

Logan is a LOOGY, plain and simple. I don't care what kind of spring stats he has...guys like Aardsma and Sisco have higher ceilings than Logan ever will.

Thome25
03-28-2007, 10:53 PM
They said it on Comcast during the 6:30 show. Logan didn't seem too happy. He said the Sox put him in a hole before camp even started by trading for guys to have in the pen and that you normally won't send down guys you trade for. I wouldn't be surprised if Logan is found a new home soon.

For a young player who has shown and contributed NOTHING thus far......Logan flaps his gums way too much.

He needs to stop running his mouth and let his play on the field do the talking.

dickallen15
03-28-2007, 11:03 PM
For a young player who has shown and contributed NOTHING thus far......Logan flaps his gums way too much.

He needs to stop running his mouth and let his play on the field do the talking.
Personally, if the majority of the pitching staff had ERAs around 8.00 and mine was 0.00 and they sent me down, I'd be pretty ticked too. What exactly has Sisco or Aardsma or Masset done in the major leagues to warrant their automatic spots on the roster?

goon
03-28-2007, 11:06 PM
Seems to me that Logan is more in the doghouse than anything. He isn't afraid to say what's on his mind...and when you're a young guy trying to make it to the big leagues, that's not helping at all.

Logan is a LOOGY, plain and simple. I don't care what kind of spring stats he has...guys like Aardsma and Sisco have higher ceilings than Logan ever will.

Agreed, especially with Sisco, who I really think could be great. Aardsma has a good fastball and curve that he has trouble locating, Sisco put up mediocre numbers this Spring, most likely because it takes him a while to get his velocity up. I remember the Sox playing the Royals early last season and when Sisco came in he was only touching 92.

Logan deserved the spot, based on performance, but I believe Aardsma only has one option left, so they probably want to keep him in the Majors and not waste the spot. Sisco is just a better pitcher and from what I've seen in his career would make a better Long Relief guy in the pen. Logan will get his chance, if not with the Sox with someone else, regardless, he needs an attitude adjustment. Last season I believe he had problems with with AJ ran his mouth a lot. Makes it hard to pull for a guy like that, even if he puts up solid numbers.

UserNameBlank
03-28-2007, 11:06 PM
I don't care what he said, Logan got screwed. Of that final four of Logan/Sisco/Aardsma/Floyd, Logan was the only one who looked like he could get a damn out. This is the second ****ty decision Ozzie has made so far this spring, with the first being Anderson.

Just wondering, but what was the point of trading Brandon and Freddy, plus refusing to negotiate contracts with Iguchi, Dye, and Buerhle if you aren't going to give the young guys who deserve a chance a shot? Other than Masset who has supposedly had a good camp from reports, Danks is the only young guy on this team who is being given a legitimate shot, and that is only because Floyd sucked so bad he got outshined by the entire Charlotte Knights starting rotation and a guy in Birmingham named Adam Russell. Aardsma found his way on to the team, like Sisco, because there is no veteran depth and two more guys had to be put in there. Logan actually earns it and he gets nothing, and it's BS. And this is coming from me, the biggest Boone Logan-hater I knew of last season.

I hope Ozzie's moves pay off and Sisco, Aardsma, and Masset pay off. I hope Darin Erstad hits like a major league baseball player. I hope I'm very, very wrong.

goon
03-28-2007, 11:10 PM
I hope Ozzie's moves pay off and Sisco, Aardsma, and Masset pay off. I hope Darin Erstad hits like a major league baseball player. I hope I'm very, very wrong.

Well, they weren't going to carry three lefties, it was either Sisco or Logan. Masset was a lock before Spring Training even started.

FarWestChicago
03-28-2007, 11:10 PM
I hope Ozzie's moves pay off and Sisco, Aardsma, and Masset pay off. I hope Darin Erstad hits like a major league baseball player. I hope I'm very, very wrong.Fortunately, chances are you probably are quite wrong. :cool:

soxinem1
03-28-2007, 11:15 PM
I think this is one of those situations where psychology plays in.

They bring in guys like Aardsma and Sisco, who despite the spring struggles, are shown that the team has confidence intheir abilities. In the long haul, that two pretty good options to have for the seventh inning if they are throwing well. But they didn't hit the strike zone a lot this spring and that is a problem.

In Floyd's case, a different story. Just because you were traded for a 17-game winner does not mean you are a lock to make the team. Just tossing the all down the middle with nothing on it is someting any of us can do and not get paid to do it.

Now in Logan's case, I can understand his frustration, but that 'experience' factor is BS. None of the guys who beat him out are established major leaguers, in fact all of them spent time in the minors last year.

But, even though most of the posts about him are ripping him to shreds, I think it's the Sox who made the mistake on this one. With all the lefty hitters they'll be facing the first month of the year, a rookie fifth starter, and a fourth starter who imploded a ton in the sixth inning last year, having the flexibility of another lefty with good stuff and a funky delivery is a good thing, sort of like the 1990 White Sox who carried at least three lefties all year.

True he was a bit of an ass when he was sent down last year, but this is this year. He should have had the opportunity to be on the team, especially since he was the only one of the bullpen candidates with an ERA under 4.00. Actually, most were closer to 5.00.

Well, they weren't going to carry three lefties, it was either Sisco or Logan. Masset was a lock before Spring Training even started.

Why, I honestly was not that impressed. And why would he be guaranteed a spot? Based on what? Is he a reincarnation of John Wetteland or something? I saw nothing but a straight fastball and quite a few deep counts.

I wouldn't be suprised if he was in AAA by May.

HawkDJ
03-28-2007, 11:19 PM
Unfortunately Boone, your complete inability to get anyone out in the majors last year put you in a big hole.

UserNameBlank
03-28-2007, 11:21 PM
Fortunately, chances are you probably are quite wrong. :cool:
Well I want to be all wrong, not just kind of wrong or a little bit wrong or probably wrong. But, thanks for the optimism though.

UserNameBlank
03-28-2007, 11:21 PM
Unfortunately Boone, your complete inability to get anyone out in the majors last year put you in a big hole.
Yeah just like Andy Sisco...

...oh, wait. He's on the team.

goon
03-28-2007, 11:23 PM
Why, I honestly was not that impressed. And why would he be guaranteed a spot? Based on what? Is he a reincarnation of John Wetteland or something? I saw nothing but a straight fastball and quite a few deep counts.

I wouldn't be suprised if he was in AAA by May.

Why? because he has a fastball that touches 99 and probably the best slider in the organization. Kenny and his scouts believe he could fill in as a closer, he was a lock before Spring Training started.

UserNameBlank
03-28-2007, 11:28 PM
Seems to me that Logan is more in the doghouse than anything. He isn't afraid to say what's on his mind...and when you're a young guy trying to make it to the big leagues, that's not helping at all.

Logan is a LOOGY, plain and simple. I don't care what kind of spring stats he has...guys like Aardsma and Sisco have higher ceilings than Logan ever will.

I have no problem with taking on a guy with a high ceiling, but 3 unproven relievers with nothing but high ceilings? At least Boone has done the job in ST.

It's funny because when a starting pitcher goes out and posts a 8.00 ERA in ST, it doesn't matter because it is just ST. And it shouldn't matter. BUT, when a young pitcher posts a 0.00 ERA in an enviornment that breeds failure for pitchers, it still doesn't mean anything? Logan earned a spot and if he criticized the Sox for not getting put on the roster, then he is right to do so.

JB98
03-28-2007, 11:33 PM
I have no problem with taking on a guy with a high ceiling, but 3 unproven relievers with nothing but high ceilings? At least Boone has done the job in ST.

It's funny because when a starting pitcher goes out and posts a 8.00 ERA in ST, it doesn't matter because it is just ST. And it shouldn't matter. BUT, when a young pitcher posts a 0.00 ERA in an enviornment that breeds failure for pitchers, it still doesn't mean anything? Logan earned a spot and if he criticized the Sox for not getting put on the roster, then he is right to do so.

Boone did the job last spring training too. In the regular season, it was beyond brutal. There is more to these decisions than just the spring numbers.

Domeshot17
03-28-2007, 11:44 PM
Personally, I love what I am hearing from Boone. Call me crazy, but I will take a staff of guys pissed off at being held back with a chip on their shoulder and feel like they have something to prove over a staff of guys who are pampered, don't care what happens to them, and don't earn anything. I am not saying in the latter half that that is the case with Aardsma and Sisco, my point was good for Boone. Be pissed off, keep getting better and working hard!!

Give the kid a break, he made a jump from SINGLE A to the pros last year. Despite what the beard may tell you, He is VERY VERY young, and still has plenty of room to grow. The guy knows he had a bad year last year, lots of guys did. He was told if you want a spot, you want to be considered, come to camp, show us something. Logan basically solidified himself as the first RP called up when someone gets hurt (maybe 2nd).

I think in terms of Floyd and Haeger (from what ozzie said on comcast sports night) he views them as starters, and wants them to keep working as starters in triple A.

Ozzie said "I liked what I saw from Boone. I know he is disappointed, but he is a guy that will have a Sox uniform on sometime this year, and I think when he puts it on, he will never take it back off". I hope Boone know we are still VERY VERY high on him, and he pitched himself back into consideration. It would not be a major shock that by the end of the year Aardsma and Sisco are playin in Charlotte and Boone and Russell are coming out of the pen.

Like I said, I love what I hear from him. He is mad he did not make the team, awesome. I am glad he has that fire and cares so much, I really am. He did not throw his team under the bus, he basically said they brought in some more established guys with more experience, that hurt my chances. I don't think he said anything wrong.

TomBradley72
03-29-2007, 12:10 AM
Personally, if the majority of the pitching staff had ERAs around 8.00 and mine was 0.00 and they sent me down, I'd be pretty ticked too. What exactly has Sisco or Aardsma or Masset done in the major leagues to warrant their automatic spots on the roster?

Exactly.

He had this kind of spring and still didn't make it:

11 IP, 4 H, 10 K, 4 BB, 0.00 ERA

Because Sisco did:

10 IP, 10 H, 10 K, 6 BB, 7.20 ERA

(He had a 7.10 ERA (w/40 BB in 58 IP) over 65 appearances for KC in 2006)

A 23 y.o. leftie showing that type of promise is worth developing. Logan's not the first guy to have a rough rookie year....and its not like Sisco is Sparky Lyle coming out of the bullpen.

Lorenzo Barcelo
03-29-2007, 12:35 AM
Add me on to the Logan bandwagon. I can't believe all this bull**** about how Logan doesn't deserve to be on the roster because of how he performed last year. Sisco had a 7+ era in 65 innings last year, and everyone is giving him the benefit of the doubt! Logan outperformed him in ST this year and deserved to be on the squad.

HawkDJ
03-29-2007, 12:41 AM
Yeah just like Andy Sisco...

...oh, wait. He's on the team.


At least Sisco had a decent year in the majors. In 2005 he had a 3.11 ERA with 72 strikeouts and a 1.46 WHIP in 75 innings. Not the greatest bullpen performance, but much better than Logan. I'm not sure people know how terrible he was in his brief stint with the Sox. A 1-to-1 K/BB ratio and a 2.08 WHIP is simply horrendous. Add in mental errors, attitude, the fact that he is lefty and the fact that Sisco throws harder and this was an easy decision.

And don't start with Aardsma. He easily had the best year of all three of them.

Navarro's Talent
03-29-2007, 12:48 AM
I'm actually pretty surprised that Sisco was taken over Logan. I figured that the organization would think highly of making Sisco a starter in the minors, so he could possibly be ready to next season if needed. Obviously, I was wrong.

I can understand Logan being upset, but like Ozzie said, there's a good chance he'll be in the majors this season to prove he belongs there.

KRS1
03-29-2007, 12:48 AM
I'm with those who think Boone got the short end of the stick here. Not only is his stuff very comparable to Sisco's (both have FB's from 88-94 mph, with deceptive motions), but Boone attacked the strike zone MUCH better this ST. I love Boones pitches, all move very well, and he was locating as good as anyone up until his last outing. He throws a sinker, a cutter(it's debatable, but this is what I consider his 4-seam FB, because it has too much cut on it to just be called a 4-seamer), a low 80 slider, a mid-high 70s slurve. He has made a lot of hitters look terrible up there, and Ive seen him give up ONE solidly hit ball in all his 10 innings of work. His stuff should be the least of questions, and I guess Ozzie is going to hold the way he handled his rookie campaign last year against him, and give Sisco's rookies season more warrant than last seasons(and this ST) results.

TheVulture
03-29-2007, 12:57 AM
I really don't see the problem with what Logan said. He basically stated he knew going into spring training it would be hard to make the team because the sox traded for a bunch of pitchers, he knew they weren't going to send them to AAA, so he just went in thinking he needed to go about his business. I believe he even said "we" traded for instead of the sox traded for. Based on his performance and his stunned look during the interview, he obviously thought he was going to make the team, but I thought the words he chose were very team-oriented, especially considering he had some guy in his face probably 5 minutes after finding out.

goon
03-29-2007, 01:08 AM
I'm actually pretty surprised that Sisco was taken over Logan. I figured that the organization would think highly of making Sisco a starter in the minors, so he could possibly be ready to next season if needed. Obviously, I was wrong.

I can understand Logan being upset, but like Ozzie said, there's a good chance he'll be in the majors this season to prove he belongs there.

Me too, I was hoping the Sox have Sisco starting in AAA. Logan will have his chance, he's just not starting the season at the major league level. This doesn't mean he won't be brought up sometime during the season. Chances are, someone in the bullpen isn't going to work out.

The best way to look at this is that the Sox have a lot of young talent, I don't know how anyone could be discouraged about that. Logan pitched well enough to make the team, so it seems unfair he wasn't rewarded. I'm not going to complain about the guys we have in there now because they have the tools to get the job done.

Domeshot17
03-29-2007, 01:13 AM
I wish people would back off the "Sisco and Aardsma throw harder so they should make the team" stuff. I know for the most part they have good stuff, but this is the major leagues, 95 straight goes 10 rows deeper then a tailing 91.

I know some people just don't like Boone, but it was his rookie year last year and was a short stint (and I actually dont know if he even has enough innings/appearances to qualify as a rookie, he may have rookie year part 2 this year). If you can forgive Sisco for last year and say, he has the ability to rebound, you HAVE to do the same for Logan.

Beautox
03-29-2007, 02:46 AM
Boone and his ****ty attitude need to shut the **** up.

i believe he let his #'s do the talking for him

11 IP, 0.00 ERA, 10 K, 4 BB, 4 H, 0 HR

Last year after he was sent down, he could've easily just disappeared and been a foot note for future spring trainings; but he didn't. He put up and shut up.

@AAA, in a hitters park as their closer.

42.2IP, 3.37ERA, 1.10WHIP, 12BB/57SO 1 HR, K9 of 12.02 thats better than Billy Wagner at both his stops at AAA.

If i was Boone, i would be very upset too. I'm growing weary of the way Ozzie and KW handle young talent.

ilsox7
03-29-2007, 02:51 AM
i believe he let his #'s do the talking for him



No, he didn't. And that's the entire point. Letting your numbers do the talking is keeping your damn mouth shut.

For the most part, Boone pitched well this spring (he had a couple of bad B games that are not counted in stats). But it's unacceptable for a guy who had an attitude problem last year to spout off again this year. He should have told Ozzie and KW that he was disappointed in being left off the 25-man, maybe asked if there was anything he could have done better/needs to work on, and then go about his business in AAA.

Beautox
03-29-2007, 03:07 AM
No, he didn't. And that's the entire point. Letting your numbers do the talking is keeping your damn mouth shut.

For the most part, Boone pitched well this spring (he had a couple of bad B games that are not counted in stats). But it's unacceptable for a guy who had an attitude problem last year to spout off again this year. He should have told Ozzie and KW that he was disappointed in being left off the 25-man, maybe asked if there was anything he could have done better/needs to work on, and then go about his business in AAA.


what did he say that was so wrong? keep sipping that kool-aid if you honesty think someone with a 0ERA shouldn't be on the roster. :gulp:

what more does the kid have to prove at Charlotte?

Since he was sent down, till the time he get injured in winterball he was dominating, and then once again this spring he backed it up.

The Immigrant
03-29-2007, 07:42 AM
No, he didn't. And that's the entire point. Letting your numbers do the talking is keeping your damn mouth shut.

For the most part, Boone pitched well this spring (he had a couple of bad B games that are not counted in stats). But it's unacceptable for a guy who had an attitude problem last year to spout off again this year. He should have told Ozzie and KW that he was disappointed in being left off the 25-man, maybe asked if there was anything he could have done better/needs to work on, and then go about his business in AAA.

Exactly. Someone with his history of stupid comments should treat a live microphone like it were a cobra and just step the **** away from it.

TomBradley72
03-29-2007, 08:11 AM
I'm not sure people know how terrible he was in his brief stint with the Sox. A 1-to-1 K/BB ratio and a 2.08 WHIP is simply horrendous. Add in mental errors, attitude, the fact that he is lefty and the fact that Sisco throws harder and this was an easy decision.

Sisco had a 1.82 WHIP over 65 appearances in 2006.

IndianWhiteSox
03-29-2007, 08:15 AM
Boone and his ****ty attitude need to shut the **** up.

My thought's exactly, although I don't know why they didn't really give Rasner or Vasquez a chance?

Just asking, not like I know everything that goes on right now.

spawn
03-29-2007, 08:37 AM
I don't see a problem with what Boone said either. Reading the entire quote on WhiteSox.com (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070328&content_id=1864737&vkey=spt2007news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws):


"They said I couldn't have had a better spring, but that's beside the point," Logan said. "They said they wanted to go with only two lefties, and I was not one of them.
"Coming into spring, I knew that it was going to be pretty tough to make the club. We traded for some guys, and you're not going to trade for guys and then send them to Triple-A. So, that already put me in a hole before I got to spring camp. I didn't let it bother me, though. "When my time comes to get called up, I'll be ready to go," Logan added.



He's disappointed (which any player in his position would be), but not terribly upset. I like how he handled the demotion. It doesn't seem like Ozzie is upset at his reaction either:


"If you aren't disappointed being sent down to the Minors, it means you don't care about this game," Guillen explained. "You mad at somebody? I don't blame you, either.

"This kid [Logan] throw the ball well enough to be on the ballclub. That's why I kept telling you guys the last two weeks that I can't make my decision that fast because we might miss something we think we need. If those guys are disappointed, I tip my hat to them because they should be. I told them it was not easy to make the decision."

dwalteroo
03-29-2007, 09:38 AM
Let's not start dumping on Ol' Boone, now. He had a very good Spring and is rightfully dissappointed not to make the team.

Agreed on all counts. On paper, he should absolutely have a spot on our roster.

INSox56
03-29-2007, 10:07 AM
Regardless of how he responded...Logan got ****in jobbed on this one man. Lefty or not, he flat out performed perfectly (quite literally). Don't know if anyone saw him two days ago...fine example of what he's been doing this spring (despite the walks), he made guys look downright stupid. The same guys that lit up the other guys in our pen.

Edit: I just actually read his response...what the hell is there to freak out about what he said...... I see nothing inflammatory or "screw the sox" about it.

Jerko
03-29-2007, 10:08 AM
So, with the "Arizona air" :rolleyes::rolleyes: causing every starter's ERA to be about 249, the guy that gives up 0 runs in such harsh conditions gets cut? I'd be pissed too. Oh well, we'll see how he handles it now, unless he's trade bait.

RowanDye
03-29-2007, 10:39 AM
So, with the "Arizona air" :rolleyes::rolleyes: causing every starter's ERA to be about 249, the guy that gives up 0 runs in such harsh conditions gets cut? I'd be pissed too. Oh well, we'll see how he handles it now, unless he's trade bait.


Walking 5 in his last two outings didn't help Logan's cause.

It's hard to argue against a guy that didn't yield a run, but those walks gave Ozzie et al. exactly what they needed to send him down.

He'll be the one of the first called if Aardsma and/or Sisco can't figure it out quickly. So hopefully he doesn't pout about his demotion too long.

spiffie
03-29-2007, 10:49 AM
what more does the kid have to prove at Charlotte?
Perhaps maturity. Notice that this year everyone who had a perceived attitude issue last year is either gone or busted down a peg or two. Brandon is in Texas, Anderson is platooning/backing up in CF, and Logan is down the Charlotte. The organization seems to be making a statement about demanding the right kind of player, not just someone who can throw up a good spring training.

oeo
03-29-2007, 11:15 AM
Walking 5 in his last two outings didn't help Logan's cause.

Ding, ding, ding!

Logan's biggest problem last year was he couldn't throw strikes. Well...here we go again; the regular season nears and he can't throw strikes.

ilsox7
03-29-2007, 11:21 AM
what did he say that was so wrong? keep sipping that kool-aid if you honesty think someone with a 0ERA shouldn't be on the roster. :gulp:

what more does the kid have to prove at Charlotte?

Since he was sent down, till the time he get injured in winterball he was dominating, and then once again this spring he backed it up.

Where did I ever opine on whether Logan should be on the Sox roster? I simply said he needs to shut the **** up and adjust his ****ty attitude. Saying that your team put you in a hole and would not send down guys it traded for is not somehting you say in public, especially as a rookie. He needs to keep going about his business and any such conversations should be in private with Sox management.

Jjav829
03-29-2007, 11:24 AM
I don't see a problem with what Boone said either. Reading the entire quote on WhiteSox.com (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070328&content_id=1864737&vkey=spt2007news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws):

"They said I couldn't have had a better spring, but that's beside the point," Logan said. "They said they wanted to go with only two lefties, and I was not one of them.
"Coming into spring, I knew that it was going to be pretty tough to make the club. We traded for some guys, and you're not going to trade for guys and then send them to Triple-A. So, that already put me in a hole before I got to spring camp. I didn't let it bother me, though. "When my time comes to get called up, I'll be ready to go," Logan added.



He's disappointed (which any player in his position would be), but not terribly upset. I like how he handled the demotion. It doesn't seem like Ozzie is upset at his reaction either:

Well, I'll retract my criticism of Logan. After reading the full quote in context, rather than the simple one line summary, he doesn't sound like he is bitching, but just disappointed.

Gavin
03-29-2007, 11:26 AM
I don't care if people think he's out of line... Logan has every right be pissed. He ****ed up last year in the majors and paid for it by doing his time in the minors for the rest of the season.

And here I thought Spring Training had a point... you know, to find out who the good pitchers are. It sounds a lot more like a Middle School Presidential election... which we all might recognize as a thinly veiled popularity contest.

TomBradley72
03-29-2007, 11:29 AM
Ding, ding, ding!

Logan's biggest problem last year was he couldn't throw strikes. Well...here we go again; the regular season nears and he can't throw strikes.

If strikes are the question...Sisco is NOT the answer.

Jjav829
03-29-2007, 11:32 AM
If i was Boone, i would be very upset too. I'm growing weary of the way Ozzie and KW handle young talent.

Are Aardsma, Sisco and Masset not young talent, too? This has nothing to do with age. Everyone that was competing for a bullpen spot (Masset, Sisco, Aardsma, Logan, Floyd, Haegar, Russell) is 25 or younger. The Sox chose the players they felt were best suited for the job. Who cares about Spring Training numbers? They're meaningless. Logan had a great spring last year, too. Look where that got him. Perhaps the Sox feel Sisco is more ready or that his added experience will help in an already young bullpen. Or, hell, maybe they just feel Sisco is a better pitcher, regardless of what the numbers say.

Bill Naharodny
03-29-2007, 11:40 AM
Jjav:

Logan did say that having acquired guys who had more experience in the bigs put him at a disadvantage.

Lip

Which happens to be absolutely true.

julio-cruz
03-29-2007, 11:44 AM
Im excited about the new bullpen. This was plan A from the beginning- so lets see how it works. Let's just hope they can throw strikes: Jenks, Sisco, Aardma and a lesser extent McDougal. I think Thornton will eventually close.
Boone Logan, Haeger, Floyd can wait. If they are the professionals thay are supposed to be, they will be ready when called upon-- and make no mistake, they will be called upon. There are bound to be injuries. I am sure Contreras will have to skip a start or two (age). And I am not convinced we will see Mark Buehrle pitch at the level he has in the past: I think it is a combination of a few things-- loss of velocity, control and locating. Also scouts, hitters have a better read on his M.O. Let's face it, he is not the same.

nodiggity59
03-29-2007, 11:48 AM
I predicted Aardsma and Sisco would be picked.

It's all about experience for him, like it or not.

PatK
03-29-2007, 11:49 AM
Logan didn't say anything wrong. His numbers this spring should have gotten him a spot on the team.

Sisco wasn't exactly great last year, and stunk it up this spring.

Boone's got every right to say what he did. He's disappointed he didn't make the team- is he supposed to be happy about going to Charlotte instead of staying with the club.

Anybody who thinks what he said was out of line or lacking maturity either read his quotes out of context or is just a plain hater.

SoxfaninLA
03-29-2007, 12:00 PM
The choices are a little surprising considering Ozzie was just talking up Logan as his long man in the bullpen 2 weeks ago. I think a lot of people thought Kenny would demand Floyd be kept on the team in order to "save face" for the Garcia trade, so much for that theory huh. Hopefully Gavin can continue to work on things in AAA and be an asset to us later in the season.

CHIsoxNation
03-29-2007, 12:00 PM
Logan didn't say anything wrong. His numbers this spring should have gotten him a spot on the team.

Sisco wasn't exactly great last year, and stunk it up this spring.

Boone's got every right to say what he did. He's disappointed he didn't make the team- is he supposed to be happy about going to Charlotte instead of staying with the club.

Anybody who thinks what he said was out of line or lacking maturity either read his quotes out of context or is just a plain hater.

I'd have to admit, the first time I saw his interview I thought he was taking some cheap shots at the team and just running his mouth. But the more I see the interview and read the quotes then I think what he said was pretty fair. He seems pretty disappointed more than anything.

goon
03-29-2007, 12:08 PM
Logan didn't say anything wrong. His numbers this spring should have gotten him a spot on the team.

Sisco wasn't exactly great last year, and stunk it up this spring.

Boone's got every right to say what he did. He's disappointed he didn't make the team- is he supposed to be happy about going to Charlotte instead of staying with the club.

Anybody who thinks what he said was out of line or lacking maturity either read his quotes out of context or is just a plain hater.

I don't think what he said was wrong, doesn't seem like there are too many people in this thread who do, nor are there many who believe he doesn't deserve a spot after his ST performance.

That said, I think the guy is a kinda of a jerk, a lot of that is seeing how he acted last year. It doesn't seem to me like it's a lack of maturity, that's his personality, take it or leave it. I'm glad he's disappointed he isn't on the team, just like Ozzie said, you should be disappointed, it means you care about playing well. Boone will have his chance.

spiffie
03-29-2007, 12:09 PM
Logan didn't say anything wrong. His numbers this spring should have gotten him a spot on the team.

Sisco wasn't exactly great last year, and stunk it up this spring.

Boone's got every right to say what he did. He's disappointed he didn't make the team- is he supposed to be happy about going to Charlotte instead of staying with the club.

Anybody who thinks what he said was out of line or lacking maturity either read his quotes out of context or is just a plain hater.
Considering the quotes came after his demotion I doubt they had anything to do with it.

However, the idea that Ozzie and KW decided despite his numbers in ST that he might not be emotionally mature enough to handle a critical role seems plausible to me, especially in light of other events. That may have nothing to do with it, but I would be surprised.

In the end though, I'm going to trust the opinion of KW, Ozzie, Coop, and the rest of the organization over all of us, since really we don't know **** about anything that went on there beyond the raw numbers.

goon
03-29-2007, 12:09 PM
. I think a lot of people thought Kenny would demand Floyd be kept on the team in order to "save face" for the Garcia trade, so much for that theory huh.


Kenny is a bull-headed guy, but he isn't dumb.

UserNameBlank
03-29-2007, 12:56 PM
At least Sisco had a decent year in the majors. In 2005 he had a 3.11 ERA with 72 strikeouts and a 1.46 WHIP in 75 innings. Not the greatest bullpen performance, but much better than Logan. I'm not sure people know how terrible he was in his brief stint with the Sox. A 1-to-1 K/BB ratio and a 2.08 WHIP is simply horrendous. Add in mental errors, attitude, the fact that he is lefty and the fact that Sisco throws harder and this was an easy decision.

And don't start with Aardsma. He easily had the best year of all three of them.
You don't reward players based on what they did 2 years ago. If that were the case, Neal Cotts would be the lefty in pen in place of either of these guys. Instead he is serving up gopher balls for the Flubs.

I didn't say anything about Aardsma because even though he was bad he wasn't anywhere near as bad as Floyd. But he still didn't exactly "earn it."

UserNameBlank
03-29-2007, 01:00 PM
i believe he let his #'s do the talking for him

11 IP, 0.00 ERA, 10 K, 4 BB, 4 H, 0 HR

Last year after he was sent down, he could've easily just disappeared and been a foot note for future spring trainings; but he didn't. He put up and shut up.

@AAA, in a hitters park as their closer.

42.2IP, 3.37ERA, 1.10WHIP, 12BB/57SO 1 HR, K9 of 12.02 thats better than Billy Wagner at both his stops at AAA.

If i was Boone, i would be very upset too. I'm growing weary of the way Ozzie and KW handle young talent.
Agreed 100%. I have no idea what Ozzie has been thinking lately.

ondafarm
03-29-2007, 01:02 PM
I think Logan is a victim of last year. He looked great in ST 2006 and then imploded once the games counted. Maybe he looked really good this year, but he'd have to look unhittable to prove that the regular season was a fluke.

I don't think he's got anything to complain about. In 2005, he was in A-ball and now he'll almost certainly be the first relief guy called up. I'm assuming Floyd and Haegar will be called up only for SP roles.

As to his mouthing off, if anybody should cut the kid a little slack, it'd be Ozzie. See what his attitude in Charlotte is and how good of a teammate he is. Hopefully he can help Floyd adjust and get both of them back to the majors.

Beautox
03-29-2007, 01:23 PM
Are Aardsma, Sisco and Masset not young talent, too? This has nothing to do with age. Everyone that was competing for a bullpen spot (Masset, Sisco, Aardsma, Logan, Floyd, Haegar, Russell) is 25 or younger. The Sox chose the players they felt were best suited for the job. Who cares about Spring Training numbers? They're meaningless. Logan had a great spring last year, too. Look where that got him. Perhaps the Sox feel Sisco is more ready or that his added experience will help in an already young bullpen. Or, hell, maybe they just feel Sisco is a better pitcher, regardless of what the numbers say.

Were not all three of them garnered in a trade this past offseason? it would appear that someone doesn't want to be perceived foolish for some of his trades. I'm sure KW would've loved to have Floyd on the 25 but their is absolutely no way he could've justified it. What happened to "ill only trade starting pitching(Garcia) if it helps the big club now" as much as i love Gio, hes not going to help the Sox and Floyd sitting down in AAA trying to figure it out isn't helping much right now.

Jjav829
03-29-2007, 01:46 PM
Were not all three of them garnered in a trade this past offseason? it would appear that someone doesn't want to be perceived foolish for some of his trades. I'm sure KW would've loved to have Floyd on the 25 but their is absolutely no way he could've justified it. What happened to "ill only trade starting pitching(Garcia) if it helps the big club now" as much as i love Gio, hes not going to help the Sox and Floyd sitting down in AAA trying to figure it out isn't helping much right now.

If there is anyone that should be kept on the roster to not make Kenny look "foolish," it's Floyd. Right now, that trade did absolutely nothing for us this season. Sisco cost us the great Ross Gload. Do you actually think Kenny would be pushing for Sisco to make the club so that it doesn't look like they got nothing for Gload? Hell, it was KW himself who said right after the trade that Sisco would be given an opportunity to decide whether he wants to be a reliever, and possibly help the team this year, or be a starter, and spend most of the year in AAA. And Aardsma was acquired for Cotts. It's not like either one of these guys was part of some big blockbuster that KW had to feel justified in making. Like I said, the one guy who fits that description is Floyd, and he's going to begin the year in AAA.

This was nothing more than a decision based on which relievers the Sox feel help the team the most at this time.

oeo
03-29-2007, 01:48 PM
If strikes are the question...Sisco is NOT the answer.

1) Sisco looked good in his last outing.
2) I'll take Sisco's upside over Boone's any day of the week.

Did we not say the same crap about Thornton last year? Although Thornton didn't have any options left, everyone was very skeptical of him...by the end of the year he was our setup man.

INSox56
03-29-2007, 01:54 PM
1) Sisco looked good in his last outing.
2) I'll take Sisco's upside over Boone's any day of the week.

Did we not say the same crap about Thornton last year? Although Thornton didn't have any options left, everyone was very skeptical of him...by the end of the year he was our setup man.
I agree with number 1, though I think Ozzie doesn't even pay attention sometimes. Even though his numbers were insanely bad that last game, he was a major victim to the wind and bad news bears (OR WORSE!) defense behind him. I was really caught off guard that he said Sisco looked bad in that game, even though Hawk and DJ both said during the broadcast something like "you know, even though Sisco's numbers are bad, Ozzie isn't the type to look at just that". If he were paying attn, he would have seen that Sisco was hitting his spots as well as missing low, not high. Again, I don't know if Ozzie just wasn't paying attn or is just feeding the media...hard to tell sometimes.

PatK
03-29-2007, 02:14 PM
1) Sisco looked good in his last outing.
2) I'll take Sisco's upside over Boone's any day of the week.



Elaborate on #2

The only difference upside I see is that there is a possibility down the road that he could be a starter.

nodiggity59
03-29-2007, 02:25 PM
Elaborate on #2

The only difference upside I see is that there is a possibility down the road that he could be a starter.


Sisco has already accomplished what we're looking for at the MLB level - in 05 - Logan has not. Right there, you have to like him better. Even Sisco's bad 06 was no worse than Logan's stay with the Sox last year:(:

Plus, though he may not be right now, Sisco has shown that he can throw 95mph consistently. Logan will never do this.

And I'm getting pissed at people for saying "KW is trying to justify his trades." As Hawk would say, THAT IS B.S. KW traded for the guys he traded for for a REASON. If he liked the in house solutions we had, he wouldn't have done a damn thing.

He likes the new guys better, period, and he's not going to change his mind based on meaningless ST numbers.

Everyone knows by now that the whole "competition" thing really only applied to the 5th starter; everywhere else, it was just a motivational tool.

White Sox Randy
03-29-2007, 02:31 PM
If strikes are the question...Sisco is NOT the answer.


Unfortunately, you're right. And, neither is Logan, Masset, Danks, Floyd, Aardsma etc.

We're counting on a bunch of young guys with little command as of right now.

How many pitchers on the White Sox would be described as having excellent command ?

TomBradley72
03-29-2007, 02:50 PM
1) Sisco looked good in his last outing.
2) I'll take Sisco's upside over Boone's any day of the week.

Did we not say the same crap about Thornton last year? Although Thornton didn't have any options left, everyone was very skeptical of him...by the end of the year he was our setup man.

Maybe...and I hope you're right. But Sisco had a completely horrible season last year at KC...a 7.10 ERA, 1.82 WHIP over 65 appearances is VERY scarey.Probably one of the worst seasons all time by any pitcher making 65 appearances.

I hope Coop helps Sisco reach his potential...but I'm not nearly as close as alot of others on this board to writing off Logan. He was a 22 y.o. rookie catapulted from A to the majors overnight and it overwhelmed him. So what? He went back to AAA and had a solid year followed up by a stellar spring training.

TomBradley72
03-29-2007, 02:51 PM
Unfortunately, you're right. And, neither is Logan, Masset, Danks, Floyd, Aardsma etc.

We're counting on a bunch of young guys with little command as of right now.

How many pitchers on the White Sox would be described as having excellent command ?

I'd have to go with ZERO.

SoxfaninLA
03-29-2007, 03:23 PM
Kenny is a bull-headed guy, but he isn't dumb.

I agree. I never bought into this nonsense that Williams would demand guys be kept on the team to "save face" because of the trades.

Logan did the same thing last spring training and promptly wet the bed when the real games started. Ozzie and Kenny must feel that mentally he isn't there yet, otherwise he would be with the team. If Sisco is ineffective I have complete faith that he will be demoted and someone else (Logan, Haegar, Floyd, etc.) will be brought up to take his place.

The business of this organization is to win ballgames, not play favorites to players they traded for or players that are willing to come paint Kenny's house in their free time. The Sox have brought up the 25 guys that they feel give them the best chance to win, if someone is not being effective, they will be replaced.

Lillian
03-30-2007, 09:22 AM
Is anyone concerned about how similar all of these pitchers are?
They are all tall guys, who throw about the same speed, from similar arm angles. Granted, they throw hard, but I wish there were a little more variation.
At least Logan has an unusual arm angle, and less common movement.
Bringing in one guy after another, who all look about the same to the hitter, is not going to maximize anyone's talent. Hitters will not have to make much of an adjustment when facing our relievers, and that can't be good.

soxfanatlanta
03-30-2007, 09:27 AM
Is anyone concerned about how similar all of these pitchers are?
They are all tall guys, who throw about the same speed, from similar arm angles. Granted, they throw hard, but I wish there were a little more variation.
At least Logan has an unusual arm angle, and less common movement.
Bringing in one guy after another, who all look about the same to the hitter, is not going to maximize anyone's talent. Hitters will not have to make much of an adjustment when facing our relievers, and that can't be good.

As long as they pitch well, I don't care if they are clones. :D: BTW: Logan is on Charlotte.

Lillian
03-30-2007, 10:21 AM
As long as they pitch well, I don't care if they are clones. :D: BTW: Logan is on Charlotte.

I know that Logan didn't make the team, and that was my point, in part. I would have liked to have seen what he could have brought to the variety component.