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santo=dorf
03-27-2007, 10:29 PM
With the roster pretty much set, looking back, what was the worst move made by the Sox this past offseason? Please base this on your gut feelings and what you expect to happen over the player(s) time with the Sox.

No non-moves like almost trading Garland or not locking up Dye count.

sox1970
03-27-2007, 10:34 PM
I voted for the Garcia trade, but it's only based on this season. I understand trades take years to evaluate, so maybe Gio Gonzalez turns out to be a great pitcher. Floyd--he's a lost cause.

BiggestFan14
03-27-2007, 10:36 PM
None of them seem too bad to me, but right now the Chris Stewart trade feels like a kick in the shin..

JB98
03-27-2007, 10:53 PM
I hated the Garcia deal the day it was made, and I still do. It isn't so much that Freddy was moved. We just didn't get anything than can help us in 2007. That was my contention then, and Floyd has done little this spring to convince me otherwise.

The Vazquez extension is second. I'm still very skeptical of Javy. I'm not buying the whole bit about him being the "next Contreras."

None of these other moves were problematic for me.

Frater Perdurabo
03-27-2007, 10:58 PM
Playing Hall at first base in a meaningless spring training game.

:fireozzie

:)

Frontman
03-27-2007, 11:01 PM
Hard to say if a move is bad or not at this point. I went with Mark McQuire's take on it and am remaining positive for a great White Sox season. (By the way, did the beatdown by the Angels finally end? I had to turn it off.)

:wink:

UserNameBlank
03-27-2007, 11:01 PM
I think worst is the wrong word because none of these moves can be fully evaluated now. Most disappointing would be a better way to put it. Several moves have been disappointing so far, with the Garcia trade sticking out more than any other. Right now Floyd still looks like a bust and has been frustrating as hell to watch. Hopefully KW proves everyone wrong and Floyd learns how to throw strikes early in the count in Triple A.

chitownhawkfan
03-27-2007, 11:03 PM
Not trading for Aaron Rowand

But in all seriousness it felt like a punch in the gut when I heard we lost Gload.

Frontman
03-27-2007, 11:08 PM
Not trading for Aaron Rowand

But in all seriousness it felt like a punch in the gut when I heard we lost Gload.

He homered for KC against me on "MLB the Show" earlier. I wanted to cry when he did it. :wink:

gobears1987
03-27-2007, 11:25 PM
Easily the Garcia trade.

It was just a dumb salary dump when the team has the resources to pay for Garcia. Floyd has had 0 success in the majors and showed us this spring why that is the case. Perhaps this might be a good trade if Gio works out, but even then we traded a pitcher who won us 17 games last year.

WhiteSox5187
03-28-2007, 12:18 AM
I have to say I don't like the Freddy trade. NOt because Freddy was great, but becasue I think we should have gotten more for him. But maybe in a couple of years it'll look like the steal of the century.

goon
03-28-2007, 12:23 AM
Easily the Garcia trade.

It was just a dumb salary dump when the team has the resources to pay for Garcia. Floyd has had 0 success in the majors and showed us this spring why that is the case. Perhaps this might be a good trade if Gio works out, but even then we traded a pitcher who won us 17 games last year.

Yeah, that 85 MPH fastball and sore bicep would be awesome going into the season. I'm not going to call out anyone for being upset with what we got for Freddy, but he's the only starter out of the five we had last year that made sense parting with, deal with it.

soxinem1
03-28-2007, 07:36 AM
I have to say I don't like the Freddy trade. NOt because Freddy was great, but becasue I think we should have gotten more for him. But maybe in a couple of years it'll look like the steal of the century.

What did you expect to get for a junk-throwing, overweight pitcher past his prime who just happened to win some games? Plus, he is in the last year of his contract. Who is going to give up blue chip prospects or Michael Young for that?

He turned it on a bit in September after waltzing his way through the first fie months of the season, but Freddy was one of 2006 bigger dissapointments if you ask me.

Vazquez extension was one of the worst signings since Navarro. At least he won 15 games the year before he was signed.

spiffie
03-28-2007, 07:42 AM
Seems it might be a good idea to wait at least a game or two before trying to evaluate the offseason moves...but that's just me. I voted the "none" option, since really, this team is stacked and ready to win almost 100 games, so how the hell can I bitch about anything KW did this offseason?

spawn
03-28-2007, 07:45 AM
I think it's waaaay to early to judge these moves. I also went with the McGwire option. I'll withhold judgement on the Javy deal until afte the season. I'm not upset with the Garcia deal, as again, it's too early to judge, as is the McCarthy deal.

munchman33
03-28-2007, 08:30 AM
Resigning Podsednik, hands down. Erstad could have handled left and leadoff, and BA would have a spot in center. Not to mention, Pods kinda sucks...

PaulDrake
03-28-2007, 09:02 AM
Yeah, that 85 MPH fastball and sore bicep would be awesome going into the season. I'm not going to call out anyone for being upset with what we got for Freddy, but he's the only starter out of the five we had last year that made sense parting with, deal with it. Freddy was worth more than just "potential". It's my opinion that the only thing that will "save" this trade is if Freddy turns out to be washed up due to arm problems.

jabrch
03-28-2007, 09:21 AM
There's not a single move made that we can CONCLUDE is a bad move at this point in time.

Now that doesn't mean that Erstad won't suck, Pods won't suck, Garcia won't win a Cy Young, etc. Just at this point it is assinine to pick a bad move out of that list and be at all confident that you are right.

Kenny didn't have a flashy offseason because he didn't have $300mm to go spend this winter. But it's hard to be mad about what he did given what he needed.

A lot of these moves will not be judgeable until well down the road - in particular the Garcia deal.

jabrch
03-28-2007, 09:27 AM
Freddy was worth more than just "potential". It's my opinion that the only thing that will "save" this trade is if Freddy turns out to be washed up due to arm problems.

So you are already convinced that Gio Gonzalez will never make any impact on the major league club? You must have really seen a lot of Gio to draw that conclusion Paul.

If Gio even is a decent LH reliever on this club, for 3 years a the league minimum, he'd likely be worth more to this club than the ONE YEAR that we have Freddy signed for. If Gio is a 5th starter for 3 years at the league minimum, it's a steal. If Gio achieves more, and is a middle rotation guy...KW is brilliant.

In trading Freddy all we gave up is one season of Freddy and then maybe a compensatory draft pick. The other factor we need to include in this is what is Kenny doing with the money that we are freeing up? That will take a while to sort out.

vegyrex
03-28-2007, 10:28 AM
The Vazquez Extension. Trading Freddy is a close second.

Dan Mega
03-28-2007, 11:06 AM
I voted for the Gload trade, since he's my guy.:cool:

WhiteSox5187
03-28-2007, 11:10 AM
What did you expect to get for a junk-throwing, overweight pitcher past his prime who just happened to win some games? Plus, he is in the last year of his contract. Who is going to give up blue chip prospects or Michael Young for that?

He turned it on a bit in September after waltzing his way through the first fie months of the season, but Freddy was one of 2006 bigger dissapointments if you ask me.

Vazquez extension was one of the worst signings since Navarro. At least he won 15 games the year before he was signed.
I think that he could have gotten more for a guy who won 17 games. That's the big stat there. I'm not saying that Freddy was a Cy Young candidate or that he shouldn't have been traded, but really the biggest name in that trade that we got was Floyd and we should have gotten more than Floyd for a seventeen game winner. I know, I know, we got Gio too, but I'm talking about someone who can help us win now. I don't think we're going to see a whole lot of Gio this year, so we should have gotten someone who has played at the major league level with a certain degree of success.

santo=dorf
03-28-2007, 11:17 AM
The original post clearly says "Please base this on your gut feelings and what you expect to happen over the player(s) time with the Sox."

So the people who are saying "it's too early to tell" or "we can't conclude it's a failure yet" are telling me they have no expectations or any idea how the above players will perform.

Read these moves out loud, and which everone put the nastiest feeling in your stomach, vote for it. I can't imagine there is a single person who thinks all of these moves are equal and has absolutely no idea how these guys may perform with their respective teams.

ChiSoxRowand
03-28-2007, 11:35 AM
Erstad signing

voodoochile
03-28-2007, 11:59 AM
I don't think any of these moves significantly weakened the team and I think ALL of them have the potential to strengthen the team, so I voted for Mark McLiar...

spiffie
03-28-2007, 12:04 PM
The original post clearly says "Please base this on your gut feelings and what you expect to happen over the player(s) time with the Sox."

So the people who are saying "it's too early to tell" or "we can't conclude it's a failure yet" are telling me they have no expectations or any idea how the above players will perform.

Read these moves out loud, and which everone put the nastiest feeling in your stomach, vote for it. I can't imagine there is a single person who thinks all of these moves are equal and has absolutely no idea how these guys may perform with their respective teams.
My gut tells me that every one of these moves was made to make the team better, and more importantly my little world series trophy on my desk tells me that Kenny Williams knows what he is doing. So my gut says it's all good. Now, it could turn out not to be that way. But for right now, I like them all, and refuse to call one the worst simply because its not as good as another good move.

SBSoxFan
03-28-2007, 12:09 PM
My gut tells me that every one of these moves was made to make the team better, and more importantly my little world series trophy on my desk tells me that Kenny Williams knows what he is doing. So my gut says it's all good. Now, it could turn out not to be that way. But for right now, I like them all, and refuse to call one the worst simply because its not as good as another good move.

The thread title should be changed to "what was the LEAST GOOD offseason move." :D:

spiffie
03-28-2007, 12:15 PM
The thread title should be changed to "what was the LEAST GOOD offseason move." :D:
See, what could have been interesting would have been to rank the offseason moves. Because then I could do that. I mean I would put the McCarthy trade over the Freddy trade or the Vazquez extension, but they're all good moves.

champagne030
03-28-2007, 12:16 PM
I voted the Garcia trade. My gut (and this spring) tells me that Gavin is who I thought he was. And that's a bust. Sure, Gio may pitch for us down the road, but if we finish 5-6 games out of the playoffs this season because of a mess at the 5th starter spot then KW put us in a bad spot. Trading a 17 game winner off a potential WS team for someone who may or may not be in our rotation in '08 seems like a mistake. A mistake magnified in the fact we didn't spend hardly any of the money saved from his contract. The increases to salaries and FA's were paid through the ticket price increase.

IndianWhiteSox
03-28-2007, 12:24 PM
My gut tells me that every one of these moves was made to make the team better, and more importantly my little world series trophy on my desk tells me that Kenny Williams knows what he is doing. So my gut says it's all good. Now, it could turn out not to be that way. But for right now, I like them all, and refuse to call one the worst simply because its not as good as another good move.

Thank you spiffie! I mean, how the hell can some people around here already make a conclusion on what was the worst trade, cough.....Paul Drake.....cough, is absurd. Think about it for a second, how do we know that Floyd isn't capable of just getting it at mid-season and leading the White Sox to another title or that Freddy loses his ability to pitch? For these trades, only time will tell and they will take at least to evaluate. Now, if the title was which was the least popular trade by KW, then........................

RockyMtnSoxFan
03-28-2007, 01:12 PM
I voted for the Vazquez extension. I think the Garcia trade was bad for the team, but I think it at least accomplished its goal -- to dump salary. Despite what KW says, I think that is what the trade was about. Floyd is exactly what he looked like before the Sox got him: a washed up, formerly "can't miss" prospect. However, I think the Vazquez extension (and original trade) is worse because it costs the team money that could be better spent elsewhere. I don't think Vazquez will ever be anything other that what we've already seen. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but I think Kenny has misjudged this one.

The Dude
03-28-2007, 01:17 PM
Resigning Podsednik, hands down. Erstad could have handled left and leadoff, and BA would have a spot in center. Not to mention, Pods kinda sucks...

My thoughts exactly!

CLR01
03-28-2007, 01:27 PM
See, what could have been interesting would have been to rank the offseason moves. Because then I could do that. I mean I would put the McCarthy trade over the Freddy trade or the Vazquez extension, but they're all good moves.

That's different how? The one you list last will be the one you feel is the worst of the bunch. So quit complaining and vote for it.

spiffie
03-28-2007, 03:19 PM
That's different how? The one you list last will be the one you feel is the worst of the bunch. So quit complaining and vote for it.
Nope. Look at how Santo phrased it later in the thread:

Read these moves out loud, and which everone put the nastiest feeling in your stomach, vote for it.
None of these moves put a nasty feeling in my stomach. When I look at this list I see nothing but positives. None of them are the worst. There are some I suspect in time may prove more beneficial than others, but as of now not only can I not judge that, but I have no reason to believe any of them are going to work out for the negative, enabling me to consider it the "worst" of the bunch. Some will not be as helpful for this year as others. Some will pay more immediate dividends. Some will have a greater impact on the organization. But Kenny Williams pretty much batted 1.000 best as I, with my limited, never been a GM, knowing about 1% of what he and his organization know mind can tell.

CLR01
03-28-2007, 03:27 PM
Nope. Look at how Santo phrased it later in the thread:


None of these moves put a nasty feeling in my stomach. When I look at this list I see nothing but positives. None of them are the worst. There are some I suspect in time may prove more beneficial than others, but as of now not only can I not judge that, but I have no reason to believe any of them are going to work out for the negative, enabling me to consider it the "worst" of the bunch. Some will not be as helpful for this year as others. Some will pay more immediate dividends. Some will have a greater impact on the organization. But Kenny Williams pretty much batted 1.000 best as I, with my limited, never been a GM, knowing about 1% of what he and his organization know mind can tell.

So if the thread said to rank them you would list each one equally at number one?

CPditka
03-28-2007, 04:40 PM
Other: Not getting my boy the Widge back on this team!

jenn2080
03-28-2007, 04:42 PM
Other: Not getting my boy the Widge back on this team!


:rolling: You are out of control with your Widge love.

DMarte708
03-28-2007, 05:43 PM
How can 25 people not even have an idea of the worst offseason move?

Obviously, some people just avoid any sense of negativity with this organization. Even with a simple poll.

soxrme
03-28-2007, 05:48 PM
I think the Garcia trade was terrible. Who are the scouts that saw so much in this guy Floyd? Maybe he will work out but we gave up a horse for a guy who couldn't make a staff that really needed pitching. As far as Gio, we have to wait and see but he was ours originally so we should know something about him.

CPditka
03-28-2007, 06:21 PM
:rolling: You are out of control with your Widge love.


Widge >>>> Ross Gload

George Mason's Finest.

tick53
03-28-2007, 06:38 PM
I went with the Garcia trade for now obvious reasons. I'm hopeful yet with Danks as the fifth starter. With Hall being out (good move Ozzie, we're knee deep in guys who can play first) the Stewart trade would be second, but who knew?

champagne030
03-28-2007, 06:49 PM
How can 25 people not even have an idea of the worst offseason move?

Obviously, some people just avoid any sense of negativity with this organization. Even with a simple poll.

Some live in the land of:

http://homepage.mac.com/kaaawa/iblog/C627146904/E20060704130333/Media/pollyanna-poster3.jpg

FarWestChicago
03-28-2007, 07:05 PM
With the roster pretty much set, looking back, what was the worst move made by the Sox this past offseason? Please base this on your gut feelings and what you expect to happen over the player(s) time with the Sox.

No non-moves like almost trading Garland or not locking up Dye count.Where was the Erstad trade in your "best" moves poll.

santo=dorf
03-28-2007, 07:06 PM
Where was the Erstad trade in your "best" moves poll.
"Other."

FarWestChicago
03-28-2007, 07:07 PM
"Other."Well, there was certainly no bias in the construction of those polls. :rolling:

WSox597
03-28-2007, 07:27 PM
I picked Vazquez. Mr Four Innings. His "stuff" may be nasty, but it needs to be nasty for more of the game.

This guy defies explanation, it looks like he has a live arm, and good speed. All of a sudden, he forgets how to pitch in the middle of the game. Head case.

So far, Don Cooper hasn't been able to fix this "keed". I hope it gets better, and fast.

Grzegorz
03-28-2007, 09:11 PM
Playing Toby Hall at first base.

SOecks
03-29-2007, 12:22 AM
Right now I'd vote for the Cotts trade because I think he can turn it around and I'm not that enamored with 2 pitch Aardsma so far. I can see why others would say the Vazquez signing but I completely disagree. The contract will be easy to trade as it's not too long or expensive and there are always GMs in this league who will be enamored with his "stuff" and take a shot, much like KW did. He won't end up being an albatross either way IMO.

mccoydp
03-29-2007, 07:35 AM
I can't really say....they haven't played a regular season game yet.

I guess we'll see, huh?

PatK
03-29-2007, 08:23 AM
I voted for the Freddy trade because I haven't been the least bit impressed with Floyd.

Although I am not going to miss Freddy handing second base over to anyone that can run because of his inability to hold the runner.

DaveGusinSeattle
03-29-2007, 06:00 PM
I voted for McCarthy. I agree - Garcia for this year...
Wasn't Floyd sent down?
I'd say there's a very good chance we will regret the McCarthy trade in 18 months. I am hopeful for this season but really worried about the pitching.
They better be ready to play on Monday :rolleyes: -I'm watching it live (via satellite)... GO SOX!
:smile: :smile: :supernana: :supernana: :supernana: :gulp: :gulp: :gulp: :redface:

WSox597
04-01-2007, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by SOecks
I can see why others would say the Vazquez signing but I completely disagree. The contract will be easy to trade as it's not too long or expensive

That is the good part of his signing. I had thought of that, it was a signing with an eye towards another trade.

We'll have to see what develops. Perhaps Cooper will yet straighten him out.

gosox41
04-01-2007, 09:19 AM
With the roster pretty much set, looking back, what was the worst move made by the Sox this past offseason? Please base this on your gut feelings and what you expect to happen over the player(s) time with the Sox.

No non-moves like almost trading Garland or not locking up Dye count.

Gotta be the Garcia trade. KW said he is only trading one of his starting pitchers for a guy who can help in 2007 and in the future. I presumed he meant the major league ball club and AAA. I didn't expect Gio to be up yet, but after listening to KW talk I did expect Floyd.



Bob

santo=dorf
04-01-2007, 11:40 AM
Gotta be the Garcia trade. KW said he is only trading one of his starting pitchers for a guy who can help in 2007 and in the future. I presumed he meant the major league ball club and AAA. I didn't expect Gio to be up yet, but after listening to KW talk I did expect Floyd.



Bob
No doubt. Anyone who thought KW was trading Garcia to eventually make room for Danks isn't kidding anyone.

KW said he wasn't going to make a trade for the sakes of making a trade, and he wasn't going to trade a starter if the return package wouldn't help out the 2007 team.

When the Garcia trade was made KW said Floyd would battle with McCarthy for the fifth starter's spot.

McCarthy gets traded and the fifth starter spot is essentially given to Floyd.

I liked Gio back in the day, and when the Thome trade was made people were saying "Sox pitching prospects never pan out," and "He's too small and his frame can't handle it," yet now people are acting like he's the next Santana.