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Lip Man 1
03-25-2007, 08:26 PM
Hopefully it's not serious:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-070325sox,1,6737846.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Lip

soxfanatlanta
03-25-2007, 08:29 PM
Hopefully it's not serious:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-070325sox,1,6737846.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Lip

What was Ozzie thinking putting him at first base? Speedy recovery, please.

Frontman
03-25-2007, 08:33 PM
What was Ozzie thinking putting him at first base? Speedy recovery, please.

Probably realized Ross Gload isn't around anymore. Either that or Ozzie got confused as Konerko used to be a catcher.

I hope its nothing and just general soreness.

We need you Toby. Get ready for Opening Day.

DickAllen72
03-25-2007, 08:55 PM
Not good. He looked like he was in intense pain. I wouldn't be surprised if the MRI shows a dislocation or some other damage.

I wish the Sox hadn't traded Chris Stewart.

Hopefully Hall will be fine. Uribe as well.

CHISOXFAN13
03-25-2007, 08:56 PM
Probably realized Ross Gload isn't around anymore. Either that or Ozzie got confused as Konerko used to be a catcher.

I hope its nothing and just general soreness.

We need you Toby. Get ready for Opening Day.

Ozzie wanted him to get more at-bats. This wasn't the first time Hall played first base in the last week.

Argghh. It didn't look good. Let's hope it's nothing major.

SoxxoS
03-25-2007, 09:03 PM
Who is next in line? And if someone says Sandy Alomar...

santo=dorf
03-25-2007, 09:06 PM
Who is next in line? And if someone says Sandy Alomar...
Rotoworld said it :tongue:

Toby Hall (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=3145)-C- White Sox (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_news.aspx?sport=MLB&majteam=CWS)Mar. 25 - 8:06 pm ethttp://www.rotoworld.com/images/right_corner_player_news.gifhttp://www.rotoworld.com/images/pixel.gifhttp://www.rotoworld.com/images/pixel.gifhttp://www.rotoworld.com/images/pixel.gifhttp://www.rotoworld.com/images/pixel.gif
Toby Hall, making a rare appearance at first base, injured his shoulder diving for a ball in the ninth inning Sunday and had to be taken for X-rays.
The White Sox have no plans to say more about his condition until Monday. If it's a serious injury, the White Sox would probably look to bring in a veteran to back up A.J. Pierzynski. The Mets would surely have no problem parting with Sandy Alomar Jr.

balke
03-25-2007, 09:13 PM
What's wrong with Wiki Gonzalez?

dickallen15
03-25-2007, 09:39 PM
Chris Stewart looks pretty good now. Getting rid of him was dumb.

UserNameBlank
03-25-2007, 10:08 PM
Chris Stewart looks pretty good now. Getting rid of him was dumb.

I'm guessing that has something to do with their hitting coach Jaramillo. Somehow I doubt he'd look that good with the Sox, and even if so, it's not like he'll be anything more than a backup anyway. Plus it is just ST.

Hopefully the injury to Toby isn't serious, but if it is having Wiki Gonzalez as a back up for a short time is fine. Offense from a back up catcher isn't going to make or break the '07 season.

chisox77
03-25-2007, 10:29 PM
At least A.J. won't have to worry about decreased time behind the plate. If Hall misses some time in April and May, it won't be that bad. My guess is that he will at least be around for the hot weather months, where A.J. would most need the rest.

Injuries do happen. The White Sox will be fine.

:cool:

Mingo
03-25-2007, 11:02 PM
Not good. He looked like he was in intense pain. I wouldn't be surprised if the MRI shows a dislocation or some other damage.

I wish the Sox hadn't traded Chris Stewart.

Hopefully Hall will be fine. Uribe as well.

Chris Stewart by the way is blazing throught ST with a .532 avg.

RockyMtnSoxFan
03-25-2007, 11:14 PM
ESPN.com reports that Hall has a "subluxation, which is a partial dislocation." I don't know much about medicine, but I'm pretty sure he won't be ready for opening day.

oeo
03-25-2007, 11:18 PM
Chris Stewart by the way is blazing throught ST with a .532 avg.

Like someone said earlier, Stewart wouldn't be doing that right now if he was in a Sox uniform. The Rangers have one of the best hitting coaches in the game...the Sox, well, don't.

I hate when people do this dumb second guessing crap..."It was dumb", "That was stupid", etc. Chris Stewart had no fit on this team, get over it.

Jerome
03-25-2007, 11:27 PM
****, i was really liking this acquisition by KW and hoping AJ could play in less games this year to keep him fresh

why was he at first base?

CubKilla
03-25-2007, 11:48 PM
Comcast said they had to pop the shoulder back into place :o:

Navarro's Talent
03-25-2007, 11:57 PM
Oh boy, I hope he's not out for long. I think Wiki Gonzales will be okay in the meantime. Get well, Toby!

MincHiaPettito
03-25-2007, 11:57 PM
Looks like its Fields time. Or Pablo.

LOL at some in this thread, good thing Im just a fan, and not an apologist. I guess Texas will have the best offense in the history of the game. The logic there of getting rid of players because of our hitt..errr

EMachine10
03-26-2007, 12:00 AM
I thought I saw the training staff try to pop it back in on the field, but i don't know if they did it right there or not. On a side note, Reifert's blog said pablo started yesterday's B game in CF :tongue: .........no teal.

thomas35forever
03-26-2007, 12:03 AM
What were they thinking playing him at first? That's not what we brought him here to do. Oh well. We can always trade for Alomar again.

BRDSR
03-26-2007, 12:11 AM
Comcast said they had to pop the shoulder back into place :o:

This sounds very similar to a recurring injury that I have had. If so, the good news is that it is much more painful than it is serious. Three or four days with no activity, three or four days of slowly increasing activity, and he should be okay.

The bad news is that its a recurring injury and tends to leave the shoulder weaker each time it happens. I have had some professional rehab with the shoulder and nothing has restored it to its original strength.

oeo
03-26-2007, 12:15 AM
What were they thinking playing him at first? That's not what we brought him here to do. Oh well. We can always trade for Alomar again.

It wasn't the first time he's played it and it was a freak injury.

Frontman
03-26-2007, 07:22 AM
It wasn't the first time he's played it and it was a freak injury.

Exactly. This wasn't an injury that is prone to happen to catchers playing first base. We can either react logically, or we can start calling for Ozzie's head. Wait a second, maybe there was a fix in. Think about it.

You know, Ozzie didn't get on the headset yesterday to talk to DJ and Hawk, so he MUST OF KNOWN THIS WAS GOING TO HAPPEN!!! IT'S NOT LIKE HE COULD OF JUST BENCHED THE GUY. OH NO, HE WAS OUT TO GET TOBY HALL.

If Ozzie knew Toby could of gotten hurt, don't you think he would of just started Brian Anderson there? :wink:

veeter
03-26-2007, 07:34 AM
****, i was really liking this acquisition by KW and hoping AJ could play in less games this year to keep him fresh

why was he at first base?He's not out for the year. He was at first because you can stick guys there that need at bats. It's the easiest position on the field. I mean he's a catcher. He takes a beating on a daily basis. The fact he got hurt playing first is just bad luck. This is noone's fault. He'll be back with 130 games left, I'm sure.

itsnotrequired
03-26-2007, 08:02 AM
He's not out for the year. He was at first because you can stick guys there that need at bats. It's the easiest position on the field. I mean he's a catcher. He takes a beating on a daily basis. The fact he got hurt playing first is just bad luck. This is noone's fault. He'll be back with 130 games left, I'm sure.

Well, he did play two games at first for Tampa Bay back in 2005.

:redneck

salty99
03-26-2007, 09:16 AM
Bring back Chris Widger!

SoxxoS
03-26-2007, 09:22 AM
Chris Stewart by the way is blazing throught ST with a .532 avg.


Josh Paul when he got called up in 2004 hit like .470 for the first 15 games. And those games counted. Big deal.

cheezheadsoxfan
03-26-2007, 09:25 AM
If Ozzie knew Toby could of gotten hurt, don't you think he would of just started Brian Anderson there? :wink:

:rolling:

dickallen15
03-26-2007, 09:36 AM
Like someone said earlier, Stewart wouldn't be doing that right now if he was in a Sox uniform. The Rangers have one of the best hitting coaches in the game...the Sox, well, don't.

I hate when people do this dumb second guessing crap..."It was dumb", "That was stupid", etc. Chris Stewart had no fit on this team, get over it.

Back-up catchers don't need to hit .300. He was and is very good defensively and calls a good game. They gave him up for nothing. Catchers get hurt a lot. Having him in Charlotte is pretty good insurance if someone went down.

SBSoxFan
03-26-2007, 10:16 AM
why was he at first base?

Why was he diving for a ball down 10-2 in the ninth inning of a ST game?!

oeo
03-26-2007, 10:18 AM
Back-up catchers don't need to hit .300. He was and is very good defensively and calls a good game. They gave him up for nothing. Catchers get hurt a lot. Having him in Charlotte is pretty good insurance if someone went down.

Again, he had no fit on this team. Trading him to the Rangers may have turned his career around a little bit too, so good luck to him.

And how do you know what kind of game he calls? I doubt he ever called a game with the Sox.

Steelrod
03-26-2007, 10:27 AM
Why was he diving for a ball down 10-2 in the ninth inning of a ST game?!
It's called instincts. You don't think about it, you just do it.

eriqjaffe
03-26-2007, 10:34 AM
Why was he diving for a ball down 10-2 in the ninth inning of a ST game?!He's a grinder?

tick53
03-26-2007, 10:53 AM
Chris Stewart looks pretty good now. Getting rid of him was dumb.

Agree, decent catchers are hard to come by. I like Alomar OK, but not catching for the Sox again. Get well soooooon Toby.

INSox56
03-26-2007, 10:58 AM
This sounds very similar to a recurring injury that I have had. If so, the good news is that it is much more painful than it is serious. Three or four days with no activity, three or four days of slowly increasing activity, and he should be okay.

The bad news is that its a recurring injury and tends to leave the shoulder weaker each time it happens. I have had some professional rehab with the shoulder and nothing has restored it to its original strength.
Seconded. My right shoulder is the same. I can't lift weights for sure with it and if I throw a lot or play a lot of tennis it starts to hurt again. I popped it out once really bad, since then it pops out of joint much easier each time. Not exactly fun.

LauraJ14
03-26-2007, 11:00 AM
The trib article said that Brian Anderson was playing Right field for the injuried Jermaine Dye, what wrong with Jermaine?
I hadn't heard anything about that.

hose
03-26-2007, 11:42 AM
Who is next in line? And if someone says Sandy Alomar...

:o: :o: :o: :o: :o: :o: :o: :o:

This is worse then the movie Ground Hog Day.:mad:

JermaineDye05
03-26-2007, 11:59 AM
The trib article said that Brian Anderson was playing Right field for the injuried Jermaine Dye, what wrong with Jermaine?
I hadn't heard anything about that.

JD's not injured I just heard he was out cause he had a sore bicep.

Thome25
03-26-2007, 12:50 PM
any word on Hall yet??

soxtalker
03-26-2007, 02:34 PM
any word on Hall yet??

Just reported on WSCR (and attributed to Joe Cowley) - torn labrum, though they are going to get a 2nd opinion.

goon
03-26-2007, 02:37 PM
Just reported on WSCR (and attributed to Joe Cowley) - torn labrum, though they are going to get a 2nd opinion.

This sucks.

bennyw41
03-26-2007, 02:40 PM
Anyone know the rehab time if it is a torn labrum?

AJ Hellraiser
03-26-2007, 02:48 PM
Anyone know the rehab time if it is a torn labrum?

I remember Lamar Odom had a torn labrum a while back and it required surgery... he needed 4 months to recover...

Like any injury it depends on how serious it is... it may not require surgery and thus need less time to fully heal

Either way, this is TERRIBLE TERRIBLE news

soxtalker
03-26-2007, 02:48 PM
Anyone know the rehab time if it is a torn labrum?

I believe that they said this was an "out for the year" kind of injury on the WSCR report.

Trib (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-070326soxhall,1,5444382.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines) is now reporting it.

MrX
03-26-2007, 02:52 PM
Anyone know the rehab time if it is a torn labrum?
They usually don't want you throwing for 6 months after surgery so I'd say he's done for the year.

goon
03-26-2007, 02:58 PM
If the 2nd opinion comes back the same, I wonder who Kenny and Ozzie will pick up... who else is left out there?

DumpJerry
03-26-2007, 02:58 PM
I'm going to be sick.

KRS1
03-26-2007, 03:03 PM
Son of a. Time to see if we can trade for a backup. Hopefully one not named Sandy Alomar Jr. All I know is I don't want to see Wiki, or Gustavo up here.

kravdog
03-26-2007, 03:08 PM
Not good.

kevingrt
03-26-2007, 03:15 PM
This is not good. Can anyone say Wiki Gonzalez time or Sandy again or hopefully someone else.

peelwonder
03-26-2007, 03:15 PM
If the 2nd opinion comes back the same, I wonder who Kenny and Ozzie will pick up... who else is left out there?

Chris Widger is available

spiffie
03-26-2007, 03:16 PM
:widger:

"Why no, I'm not busy this year...why do you ask?"

stacksedwards
03-26-2007, 03:20 PM
Hopefully we can trade the Indians for Jack Parkman

whitem0nkey
03-26-2007, 03:21 PM
Maybe some team will release a back up catcher who I donít know. But I would think its better that he got hurt now Vs the 1st week of the season. Allowing us to get some decent backup, that could not make the team cause they did not want 3 catchers.

Iím just trying to find some bright side in this obvious bad news.

NSSoxFan
03-26-2007, 03:23 PM
As much as this sucks, we won a World Series with Widger as our backup catcher. I'm definitely not writing this is off as a non-issue, but we will be fine. Toby Hall was not going to make or break our season.

dwalteroo
03-26-2007, 03:30 PM
Granted, this is an article about how the torn labrum affects pitchers, but worth reading.

http://www.slate.com/id/2100895/

NOT GOOD.

CHISOXFAN13
03-26-2007, 03:32 PM
As much as this sucks, we won a World Series with Widger as our backup catcher. I'm definitely not writing this is off as a non-issue, but we will be fine. Toby Hall was not going to make or break our season.

A.J. was dead at the end of the season last year because the Sox didn't have a capable backup to spell him throughout the year.

Hall would have been the AL's best backup. This is a huge loss, IMO.

oeo
03-26-2007, 03:36 PM
If the 2nd opinion comes back the same, I wonder who Kenny and Ozzie will pick up... who else is left out there?

Hopefully it doesn't, and this is all just a terrible mistake.

:praying:

skottyj242
03-26-2007, 03:36 PM
I don't know what to think.

Lip Man 1
03-26-2007, 03:38 PM
Obviously not good because by all accounts Ozzie wanted to get Hall measurable playing time this year not only to spell A.J. but as another right handed bat in the lineup.

That may have been his biggest impact on the team, a solid right hander off the bench in the late innings.

The Sox have been very fortunate injury-wise the past few years, maybe the law of averages is beginning to kick in.

I'll be curious to see who they try to get but catchers are a scarce bunch, it's going to be very hard (or very expensive in trade) to get a competent back up.

Lip

PatK
03-26-2007, 03:39 PM
Why in God's name was he playing first?

Can anyone answer this for me?

Meixner007
03-26-2007, 03:42 PM
Why in God's name was he playing first?

Can anyone answer this for me?

Eduardo Perez strained his calf in the 6th or 7th.

ShoelessJoeS
03-26-2007, 03:46 PM
****, Ozzie. Does he really have to be playing 1st base?

*shakes head*

BeviBall!
03-26-2007, 03:46 PM
Why in God's name was he playing first?

Can anyone answer this for me?

Where else would you play a backup catcher who needs At-Bats?

PatK
03-26-2007, 03:48 PM
Where else would you play a backup catcher who needs At-Bats?

DH

ShoelessJoeS
03-26-2007, 03:49 PM
Where else would you play a backup catcher who needs At-Bats?A "B" game? DH?

cheeses_h_rice
03-26-2007, 03:50 PM
:ohno

*gulp*

spiffie
03-26-2007, 03:51 PM
I'll join the worry party when we lose someone who was expected to get more than 40 or so starts this year. It sucks to lose Hall, but he was the backup catcher. Now if AJ goes down, then I'll worry.

NSSoxFan
03-26-2007, 03:54 PM
I'll join the worry party when we lose someone who was expected to get more than 40 or so starts this year. It sucks to lose Hall, but he was the backup catcher. Now if AJ goes down, then I'll worry.

The season is over, sorry.

NorthSideSox72
03-26-2007, 03:58 PM
Torn Labrum recovery, from my experience... scope, then 3 months of recovery and PT, then you can START throwing and getting it stretched back out and strengthened. Not likely to be able to throw, swing and play regularly in less than 4 months. So its not likely he's playing recovery ball in the minors even until July or August, at best. That's if this is indeed a torn labrum.

:(:

oeo
03-26-2007, 04:04 PM
****, Ozzie. Does he really have to be playing 1st base?

*shakes head*

:rolleyes:

****, Shoeless, it was a freak injury. Injuries do happen, even though we haven't had any major ones the past couple of years, they do indeed happen. This isn't Ozzie's fault, or Hall's fault, it wasn't anyone's fault...it just happened. Now someone has to step up, whether it be Wiki or someone through a trade.

ShoelessJoeS
03-26-2007, 04:07 PM
:rolleyes:

****, Shoeless, it was a freak injury. Injuries do happen, even though we haven't had any major ones the past couple of years, they do indeed happen. This isn't Ozzie's fault, or Hall's fault, it wasn't anyone's fault...it just happened. Now someone has to step up, whether it be Wiki or someone through a trade.I disagree buddy. Putting Hall at first was not a good idea considering there were much better options to get him at-bats.

ondafarm
03-26-2007, 04:07 PM
Not sure if the story on the official home page has been linked (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070326&content_id=1860209&vkey=spt2007news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws)

oeo
03-26-2007, 04:09 PM
I disagree buddy. Putting Hall at first was not a good idea considering there were much better options to get him at-bats.

He was playing catcher earlier in the game; Perez left, and Ozzie put him at first. It wasn't the first time he's ever played first base...hell, it wasn't the first time he's played first base this spring. Blaming Ozzie is ridiculous.

kobo
03-26-2007, 04:09 PM
I'll join the worry party when we lose someone who was expected to get more than 40 or so starts this year. It sucks to lose Hall, but he was the backup catcher. Now if AJ goes down, then I'll worry.
This is a huge loss for the Sox. One of the needs in the offseason was a backup catcher and Kenny went out and got a good one and now he's gone for who knows how long. Worst case would be the season. I am not thrilled with having Gonzalez back there or bringing back Alomar.

ilsox7
03-26-2007, 04:11 PM
He was playing catcher earlier in the game; Perez left, and Ozzie put him at first. It wasn't the first time he's ever played first base...hell, it wasn't the first time he's played first base this spring. Blaming Ozzie is ridiculous.

Well said. This is just a case of hindsight being 20/20. It sucks, but injuries happen.

goon
03-26-2007, 04:12 PM
Not sure if the story on the official home page has been linked (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070326&content_id=1860209&vkey=spt2007news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws)


Javy Lopez, huh... I'd take him over Wiki in about a millisecond. Maybe Molina is ready, I remember liking him in the 2006 ST.

ShoelessJoeS
03-26-2007, 04:16 PM
He was playing catcher earlier in the game; Perez left, and Ozzie put him at first. It wasn't the first time he's ever played first base...hell, it wasn't the first time he's played first base this spring. Blaming Ozzie is ridiculous.:rolleyes:

Blaming him? No. Re-read what I said. I was questioning that call, and I'm sorry that you feel differently, oeo, but I don't see how putting him at first was the best option. It's ok to second-guess what Ozzie does every now and then, especially when there is an outcome like this. As fans we have the right to question his moves. So please, *****.

Huisj
03-26-2007, 04:16 PM
I agree that blaming Guillen is rather ridiculous for this. Guillen has been saying all spring that he wanted to get Hall at bats during the season. Isn't it logical that one way to try to do that would be to have him occasionally back up at first base against lefties--have Thome sit and Konerko get a "day off" by DHing. If he's going to possibly back up at first during real games, you've gotta get him in the game some during training games to get him a little experience there. Nothing wrong with that.

goon
03-26-2007, 04:19 PM
Molina is the game today... c'mon miracle.

JermaineDye05
03-26-2007, 04:24 PM
Even though this does suck, we can't blame Ozzie for this injury. If he had put Pauly or Thome in at first and one of them had gotten injured people would still have been blaming him, injuries are a part of the game and you can't avoid them just consider ourselves lucky it wasn't Dye, Thome, or Konerko who got the torn labrum. The one big downside to this is we no longer have Chris Stewart, how about Boone Logan for Chris?

ShoelessJoeS
03-26-2007, 04:28 PM
Even though this does suck, we can't blame Ozzie for this injury. If he had put Pauly or Thome in at first and one of them had gotten injured people would still have been blaming him, injuries are a part of the game and you can't avoid them just consider ourselves lucky it wasn't Dye, Thome, or Konerko who got the torn labrum. The one big downside to this is we no longer have Chris Stewart, how about Boone Logan for Chris?I certainly wouldn't. That is their natural positions. But you are right, if it was either of those three, it would be a bigger blow (although losing Hall will be tough). But the fact of the matter is, someone will definitely need to step up big. I turst Kenny and Ozzie will find a viable replacement.

thomas35forever
03-26-2007, 04:31 PM
Unbelievable. Suddenly, trading Chris Stewart looks like a bad idea. If Gonzalez sucks this year and so does every other catcher in our system, we're in deep doo-doo.

russ99
03-26-2007, 04:38 PM
Unbelievable. Suddenly, trading Chris Stewart looks like a bad idea. If Gonzalez sucks this year and so does every other catcher in our system, we're in deep doo-doo.

Naw, we need a righty catcher who can hit well enough to spot A.J. about 30-40 games. All Stewart has really done so far is have a good spring. I'm all for Javy Lopez, if the Sox can get him cheap.

If not, Wiki's definately a much better option that Sandy Alomar again.

ND_Sox_Fan
03-26-2007, 04:41 PM
As someone else said about Wider earlier, we won in 2005 with him - and without much offense from him.

A guy like Molina who is supposed to be a sharp defender with a strong arm may not be the worst thing in the world. And, he is 25 ... so not exactly a young rookie.

MincHiaPettito
03-26-2007, 04:41 PM
how many career appearances does hall have at 1B? I bet I can count them on one hand. this isnt little league. surprised that mackowiak didnt get hurt last year, with some of those movements he made with his approach to balls. hopefully a wake up call for mr. i play people out of position guillen

Navarro's Talent
03-26-2007, 04:56 PM
Terrible news. I hope he recovers as soon as possible.

I wouldn't mind if KW went after Javy Lopez either. He has lots of experience, and will definitely help AJ rest as the season progresses. I'm not sure about Wiki Gonzales, but I'm definitely not against giving him a shot.

spiffie
03-26-2007, 04:58 PM
how many career appearances does hall have at 1B? I bet I can count them on one hand. this isnt little league. surprised that mackowiak didnt get hurt last year, with some of those movements he made with his approach to balls. hopefully a wake up call for mr. i play people out of position guillen
Amazing that with such a grasp of how to properly handle a roster that you aren't busy this spring managing an MLB team.

Rocky Soprano
03-26-2007, 04:58 PM
Anyone got Widger on speed dial?

ND_Sox_Fan
03-26-2007, 05:00 PM
Anyone got Widger on speed dial?

I would really rather give a young guy a chance. With Widger, you know you are going to get: decent defense and maybe a .200 average.

Try a young guy with decent to strong defense and a chance to do something on offense.

Rocky Soprano
03-26-2007, 05:07 PM
I would really rather give a young guy a chance. With Widger, you know you are going to get: decent defense and maybe a .200 average.

Try a young guy with decent to strong defense and a chance to do something on offense.

I agree. I just dont want to see Alomar behind the plate again.

SoxxoS
03-26-2007, 05:09 PM
Give me Widger over WikiPedia

thomas35forever
03-26-2007, 05:12 PM
Give me Widger over WikiPedia
Wow, Wikipedia can do anything these days.:redneck

AZChiSoxFan
03-26-2007, 05:12 PM
I'm blaming Hal for all of this. It was bad karma to adopt a screen name "Torn Labrum." Now it's come back to bite us in the butt.

Thanks a lot Hal!!

MincHiaPettito
03-26-2007, 05:13 PM
Lets get Olivo again.

Amazing that with such a grasp of how to properly handle a roster that you aren\'t busy this spring managing an MLB team.

Search of your posts today has you hoping the Sox would have faith in BA, and if they did, hed be an allstar. Where do I sign up for this list where it is okay for certain people to question the manager

KenBerryGrab
03-26-2007, 05:14 PM
Please, no Javy Lopez. He's well past done.

goon
03-26-2007, 05:15 PM
Give me Widger over WikiPedia

yeah, I don't like Wiki as our back-up either. I would think go FA or with Molina.

Lillian
03-26-2007, 05:19 PM
Wiki Gonzales looks like he can handle the bat. He was a solid hitter in the
Minors, and did OK in his limited Major League opportunities.
http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/players/playerpage/24937
How good is he defensively?
I liked what I saw of him in lots of Spring Training games.

spiffie
03-26-2007, 05:20 PM
Lets get Olivo again.



Search of your posts today has you hoping the Sox would have faith in BA, and if they did, hed be an allstar. Where do I sign up for this list where it is okay for certain people to question the manager
At no point in there did I suggest that Ozzie was doing the wrong thing by not playing BA this year. If he feels that BA needs more time or that this isn't the right moment or that his head isn't right or whatever Ozzie and KW believe, then I'm going to trust them. I suspect and believe that given the time starting now, that BA's learning curve would mean great things in a few years. And I would prefer to see that. But I know that my opinion is based on a WHOLE lot less information than Ozzie and KW's opinions, and trust that if they go with Erstad this season that they have good reasons for it.

SoxxoS
03-26-2007, 05:29 PM
Can Rowand catch?

Imagine him flipping off his mask, running like a chicken with his head chopped off and running into the Scout Seats!

AJ Hellraiser
03-26-2007, 05:48 PM
This is a terrible injury because his bat was supposed to be a huge upgrade against tough lefties, which we don't hit.. not we have to settle for crap behind the plate again... and we will suck against lefties AGAIN

whatever... serves him right for diving for a ball in the 9th inning of a spring training game we were getting crushed in... bonehead move

UserNameBlank
03-26-2007, 05:50 PM
This is a terrible injury because his bat was supposed to be a huge upgrade against tough lefties, which we don't hit.. not we have to settle for crap behind the plate again... and we will suck against lefties AGAIN

whatever... serves him right for diving for a ball in the 9th inning of a spring training game we were getting crushed in... bonehead move

Yeah, because spring training is all about not trying.

Dumb Toby, you're supposed to be all lackadasical and not give a ****! Bad grinder! Bad, bad grinder!

goon
03-26-2007, 05:59 PM
whatever... serves him right for diving for a ball in the 9th inning of a spring training game we were getting crushed in... bonehead move

That's nice of you to say.

I could see the Sox trading someone like Mack, maybe to an NL team, I'm sure that he could swing a quality back-up.

esbrechtel
03-26-2007, 06:24 PM
Whatever happened to Sal Fasano? Is he still around? I wouldn't mind seeing that handlebar mustache behind the plate....

JB98
03-26-2007, 06:28 PM
That's nice of you to say.

I could see the Sox trading someone like Mack, maybe to an NL team, I'm sure that he could swing a quality back-up.

He could, but we shouldn't do that. Mack is worth more than any backup catcher.

I'd go with Molina, to tell you the truth. The pitchers seem to like throwing to him. You're not going to get a guy who can hit to fill the position, so you might as well go for defense.

anewman35
03-26-2007, 06:33 PM
I disagree buddy. Putting Hall at first was not a good idea considering there were much better options to get him at-bats.

I mean, this obviously sucks, but I have no problem with him playing first. What if for whatever reason he had been needed to play a few innings at first during the season? Wouldn't you have been glad he had at least a little expierence there?

goon
03-26-2007, 06:34 PM
He could, but we shouldn't do that. Mack is worth more than any backup catcher.

I'd go with Molina, to tell you the truth. The pitchers seem to like throwing to him. You're not going to get a guy who can hit to fill the position, so you might as well go for defense.

Yes and with have Toby in a two year contract, it might not be worth a trade. They'll give Wiki and Gustavo a chance and if they are really that bad, they might make a move. Luckily it's our back-up catcher, not a pitcher or starter.

JB98
03-26-2007, 06:43 PM
Yes and with have Toby in a two year contract, it might not be worth a trade. They'll give Wiki and Gustavo a chance and if they are really that bad, they might make a move. Luckily it's our back-up catcher, not a pitcher or starter.

Precisely. I'd hold the phone for now and just see what happens. Maybe one of these guys will surprise us and do a serviceable job. And really, all we need from a backup catcher is a serviceable job. We know AJ can catch 130 games for us, if need be.

JB98
03-26-2007, 06:46 PM
I mean, this obviously sucks, but I have no problem with him playing first. What if for whatever reason he had been needed to play a few innings at first during the season? Wouldn't you have been glad he had at least a little expierence there?

With Erstad, Mack and possibly Perez around, I can't see any scenario where we would have needed Hall at first base. Ozzie said they were putting him there so he could get his ABs. He could have just as easily gotten his ABs in a B game. That's what Thome is doing.

It's disappointing, but there's no going back now. Just have to deal with it.

UserNameBlank
03-26-2007, 06:47 PM
He could, but we shouldn't do that. Mack is worth more than any backup catcher.

I'd go with Molina, to tell you the truth. The pitchers seem to like throwing to him. You're not going to get a guy who can hit to fill the position, so you might as well go for defense.
I'd be against trading Mack, but if one of our bench players could bring us Damien Miller from the BrewCrew I think that would be a great move. They have Estrada there now and shouldn't need much help.

anewman35
03-26-2007, 06:49 PM
With Erstad, Mack and possibly Perez around, I can't see any scenario where we would have needed Hall at first base. Ozzie said they were putting him there so he could get his ABs. He could have just as easily gotten his ABs in a B game. That's what Thome is doing.



In 2005, would you have seen any scenario with Jermaine Dye at short and Chris Widger at third?

DickAllen72
03-26-2007, 06:50 PM
It looks like now the Sox have to keep Eduardo Perez if they want to improve against LHP. That means Mackowiak either gets traded or becomes the backup CFer again. Or, the Sox cut Perez anyway and watch LHP dominate them again this year while Thome wears down again from playing everyday.

This Hall injury has more of an effect than just replacing a backup catcher.

Jjav829
03-26-2007, 06:54 PM
In 2005, would you have seen any scenario with Jermaine Dye at short and Chris Widger at third?

Widger played one game at 3rd. Dye played one inning at short. What's your point? Hall wasn't going to master first base by playing a few innings in spring training. And we would have had about 7 options for 1B ahead of Hall.

Maybe Thome should start at catcher tomorrow. You never know when we might need a 4th or 5th catcher option...:?:

UserNameBlank
03-26-2007, 06:58 PM
To everyone who is upset that Toby was at first base and dove for a ball, I have one question. What do you think he would have been doing with Charlie Haeger on the mound? It's not like Ozzie put him at SS or anything. Besides, any catcher with a bat who is in his thirties or older should be at least somewhat familiar with 1B. I see no problem with Ozzie testing out Toby's versatility during a ST game. It's just too bad he got injured.

anewman35
03-26-2007, 07:11 PM
Widger played one game at 3rd. Dye played one inning at short. What's your point? Hall wasn't going to master first base by playing a few innings in spring training. And we would have had about 7 options for 1B ahead of Hall.


I'm not saying him having some first base experience was going to make or break the season, I'm just saying that, in my mind, it doesn't hurt for a backup to be able to play more than one position. In any case, it's not like anybody would have ever seen this coming.

Lip Man 1
03-26-2007, 07:13 PM
Molina may be a bigger risk because he missed about a week or so trying to get out of Venezuela. He may be behind everyone else due to it. I also just saw in the box score from today's game where he left five guys on base.

Lip

JB98
03-26-2007, 07:18 PM
Molina may be a bigger risk because he missed about a week or so trying to get out of Venezuela. He may be behind everyone else due to it. I also just saw in the box score from today's game where he left five guys on base.

Lip

Well, we don't have a host of wonderful options here, Lip. I don't think either Gonzalez or Molina would be able to hit much for us. I don't think any player we acquire to be the backup catcher at this point is going to be able to hit much.

I would say, if we think one of those two guys can handle the pitching staff well, just go with it and hope for the best.

JB98
03-26-2007, 07:22 PM
Widger played one game at 3rd. Dye played one inning at short. What's your point? Hall wasn't going to master first base by playing a few innings in spring training. And we would have had about 7 options for 1B ahead of Hall.

Maybe Thome should start at catcher tomorrow. You never know when we might need a 4th or 5th catcher option...:?:

I agree completely. Thanks for backing me up, Jjav. I don't think Hall was playing first base because Ozzie was worried about an apocalypse scenario in which he would have to put Toby at first during a regular-season game. Ozzie was merely trying to get Hall more at-bats, and it blew up on him.

I'm not necessarily angry about this, but the whole situation is disappointing. As Dick Allen pointed out, it could have ramifications in terms of the makeup of the rest of the roster. This injury certainly weakens us against left-handed pitching, which is one of my concerns coming into the season.

KRS1
03-26-2007, 07:27 PM
Please, no Javy Lopez. He's well past done.


Oh yeah, way past his prime. Two seasons ago the guy was still tearing up the league. JMO, but even his downside is a good amount higher than Wiki's upside as a hitter.

Either way, Javy well past his prime>Wiki ever.

santo=dorf
03-26-2007, 07:36 PM
It wasn't the first time he's ever played first base...hell, it wasn't the first time he's played first base this spring. Blaming Ozzie is ridiculous.
He's played 5 innings over a span of two games in his career.

I'd say Crede is more a shortstop than Hall is of a first baseman.

Wasn't grinderstad supposed to be a back up first baseman when we signed him?

TomBradley72
03-26-2007, 07:41 PM
Javy Lopez:

2005 (Balt): .278-15-49
2006 (Balt/Bos): .253-8-31

But he was cut this spring (Colorado?)...and no one picked him up...so can he really have anything left? I thought he was kind of week defensively to begin with? (he was 6/33 caught stealing last year)

oeo
03-26-2007, 07:42 PM
:rolleyes:

Blaming him? No. Re-read what I said. I was questioning that call, and I'm sorry that you feel differently, oeo, but I don't see how putting him at first was the best option.

He played first base earlier this spring...I don't remember anyone complaining then.

It's ok to second-guess what Ozzie does every now and then, especially when there is an outcome like this. As fans we have the right to question his moves.As fans, we can only second guess.

And especially? Like I said before, no one second guessed his decision earlier this spring to put Hall at first. No one second guesses when things go right...you only second guess when things go wrong. You act as if Ozzie knew that Toby was going to dive and injure himself...there was nothing he could do. And before you say, "He could have never put him at first," think about how you never second-guessed that before.

And what were his better options? Do you know who he had on the bench yesterday? I'd imagine you don't.

skobabe8
03-26-2007, 07:44 PM
Please no one else blame this for Hall playing "out of position." He plays the most grueling position on the field and ends up getting hurt playing the position that is one of the easiest on the body. He's gonna dive because thats what your instincts tell you to do. Crap happens. Just gotta deal with it and move forward.

UserNameBlank
03-26-2007, 07:46 PM
He's played 5 innings over a span of two games in his career.

I'd say Crede is more a shortstop than Hall is of a first baseman.

Wasn't grinderstad supposed to be a back up first baseman when we signed him?

I'd take the bat of a one-armed Toby Hall over Erstad any day of the week.

KRS1
03-26-2007, 07:50 PM
Javy Lopez:

2005 (Balt): .278-15-49
2006 (Balt/Bos): .253-8-31

But he was cut this spring (Colorado?)...and no one picked him up...so can he really have anything left? I thought he was kind of week defensively to begin with? (he was 6/33 caught stealing last year)


Wiki...

2005.

45 ABs
.267 .298 .378 0 hr's 2 rbi

2006

35 ABs
.229 .263 .229 0 hr's 2 rbi


Again, Javy past his prime>Wiki ever

santo=dorf
03-26-2007, 07:52 PM
Anyway we can get Jose Molina from the Angels? They have Mathis and Napoli.

latest news:
Jose Molina (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=2896)-C- Angels (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_news.aspx?sport=MLB&majteam=ANA)Dec. 6 - 9:18 pm et
The Angels will consider moving Jose Molina, possibly for a left-handed reliever.
Molina isn't going to bring much in return, but some club may want him as a backup. If the Angels move him, they could then go with a tandem of Mike Napoli and Jeff Mathis next season.

Jeff Mathis (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=3835)-C- Angels (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_news.aspx?sport=MLB&majteam=ANA)Mar. 12 - 6:53 pm et
Jeff Mathis, who entered the day 1-for-19 this spring, went 3-for-3 with two homers and a walk versus the Royals.
Turning around his spring in a hurry. Mathis is probably going to return to Triple-A, but perhaps he could avoid that fate with a big second half of March.

Feb. 12 - 1:13 pm et
Mike Napoli, who is set to battle Jose Molina and Jeff Mathis for playing time, lost 15 pounds over the winter.
Napoli struggled mightily over the second half of last season, maybe in part due to fatigue. He's the favorite to enter 2007 as the Angels' primary catcher, but he has some work to do. If he gets 350-400 at-bats, he could be good for 20 homers. However, he's not going to start hitting for average.

oeo
03-26-2007, 07:54 PM
Jose Molina (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=MLB&id=2896)-C- Angels (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/clubhouse_news.aspx?sport=MLB&majteam=ANA)Dec. 6 - 9:18 pm ethttp://www.rotoworld.com/images/right_corner_player_news.gifhttp://www.rotoworld.com/images/pixel.gifhttp://www.rotoworld.com/images/pixel.gifhttp://www.rotoworld.com/images/pixel.gifhttp://www.rotoworld.com/images/pixel.gif
The Angels will consider moving Jose Molina, possibly for a left-handed reliever.
Molina isn't going to bring much in return, but some club may want him as a backup. If the Angels move him, they could then go with a tandem of Mike Napoli and Jeff Mathis next season.

Could that lefty be Boone Logan? Although he's a LOOGY, he hasn't given up a run all spring, so his stock might be high. What a deal that would be...

I just noticed this was posted in December...I wonder if he's still on the market.

KRS1
03-26-2007, 08:05 PM
Could that lefty be Boone Logan? Although he's a LOOGY, he hasn't given up a run all spring, so his stock might be high. What a deal that would be...

I just noticed this was posted in December...I wonder if he's still on the market.

No thanks. I'd rather have Boone in our pen. His upside in helping our ballclub is higher than a career .239 .280 backup catcher. I don't care how good his D is.

getonbckthr
03-26-2007, 08:12 PM
No thanks. I'd rather have Boone in our pen. His upside in helping our ballclub is higher than a career .239 .280 backup catcher. I don't care how good his D is.
Ya but we got Thornton and Sisco.

KRS1
03-26-2007, 08:17 PM
Ya but we got Thornton and Sisco.

Sisco isnt a given, nor should he be yet. Having them doesnt change the fact that having a guy who can make our pen solid is more valuable than a very weak hitting backup catcher.

Tragg
03-26-2007, 08:21 PM
I never thought I'd say this, but, hell, oil up the wheelchair and go get Alomar.

Beats trading any real talent for one of these available bums.

Don't trade Logan or Sisco for some backup catcher...please.

California Sox
03-26-2007, 08:21 PM
Just my opinion: Logan > Sisco

UserNameBlank
03-26-2007, 08:22 PM
Todd Greene can hit lefties and he's listed third on the Padres catching depth chart, so he could be available for nothing.

I metioned Damien Miller before because I like him as a player, but he's just a backup for MIL and with switch hitting Estrada they could probably part with him.

Doug Mirabelli could be another option since the Red Sox probably aren't going to need to count on Wakefield as much as they have in the past. They traded him last year, so who knows? He can catch a knuckler at least.

Hendu
03-26-2007, 08:43 PM
This stinks, but really if it's the worst injury we have all season, we should be looking good.

I just hope Kenny doesn't panic and over-pay for a back-up catcher.

thomas35forever
03-26-2007, 08:58 PM
Could that lefty be Boone Logan? Although he's a LOOGY, he hasn't given up a run all spring, so his stock might be high. What a deal that would be...

That was the first thing that popped into my head when I read that. We'll just have to see what happens, but I think it might be a little too much to give up for a backup catacher.

Lip Man 1
03-26-2007, 09:13 PM
For what it's worth Chuck Garfein interviewed Kenny who told him they are going with an in house option (after Chuck specifically mentioned Alomar.)

Kenny seemed shocked over the Hall injury almost in a haze facially and admitted it was going to hurt the team.

Now he may have just been posturing about not trying to get someone, you just don't know.

He also said the in house option's first job would be catching and anything they could get out of him from a hitting standpoint would be a bonus.

Lip

DickAllen72
03-26-2007, 09:19 PM
He also said the in house option's first job would be catching and anything they could get out of him from a hitting standpoint would be a bonus.

LipI bet Kenny wishes he could take that Chris Stewart trade back. He was probably the best defensive catcher the Sox had since.....I don't even remember.

How is Lujan looking these days, anyway?

MRM
03-26-2007, 09:24 PM
Widger played one game at 3rd. Dye played one inning at short. What's your point? Hall wasn't going to master first base by playing a few innings in spring training. And we would have had about 7 options for 1B ahead of Hall.



7 options at 1st ahead of Hall, eh? I count two. Thome and Erstad. Maybe Dye in an emergency, but if it came to that it means Erstad is hurt and you can't spare Dye out of the outfield, anyhow. Who else are you going to put over there?

If you are looking to get the guy his AB's in a game that you want someone else catching, it makes the most sense to put him at 1st. The DH argument is bogus because being a DH is MUCH harder than you imagine, mentally. It's nearly impossible to get into the flow of the game at DH and is more like pinch hitting 4 times a game. The argument to catch him in a B game or minor league game is equally bogus because the entire reason for playing him was to get him ABs against MLB pitching. That kind of thing works for Thome and some others because they are just getting their reps in regardless of the quality of the pitcher. In that scenerio a Thome doesn't care whether he strikes out 5 times or hits 4 home runs, it's all the same to him because he's just getting the work in on mechanics, not looking to face real game situations. It's the quantity of ABs he's looking for, not the quality of the pitcher.

Hall might have been hotdogging a little more than he should have but that's neither here nor there, and blaming Ozzie is pure insanity. It's baseball, injuries happen, and the odds of him getting hurt playing first base were SUBSTANTIALLY lower than they would have been behind the plate.

Which reminds me. The "natural position" argument is bogus, too. These are professional athletes, presumably among the best conditioned people in the world. H.S. and College players regularly man a position that isn't their "natural" place on the field without incident, but the argument that a professional player who generally lines up at the most physically demanding position is somehow being put at undo risk by moving him to the LEAST physically demanding, for a game, holds water? Cmon.

Some of you must belong to the Jay Marriotti fan club...you just look for things to blame Ozzie for so you can say "I told you so" after so vehemently opposing his hiring in the first place.

MRM
03-26-2007, 09:31 PM
This stinks, but really if it's the worst injury we have all season, we should be looking good.

I just hope Kenny doesn't panic and over-pay for a back-up catcher.

Correct me if my memory is wrong but didn't the Sox win a World Series with a backup catcher they grabbed off the waiver wire from a beer league softball team? :D:

Kenny isn't going to overpay for a backup catcher. Chris Widger is proof of that.

Beer Can Chicken
03-26-2007, 09:33 PM
I'd take the bat of a one-armed Toby Hall over Erstad any day of the week.

A two-armed Toby Hall is a career .265 hitter with a .301 OBP. He also has only hit double digit HR's (12) once in his 7 year career. I'd hate to see what a one-armed one would accomplish.
Toby Hall would have made a decent back-up catcher, not much more than that though.

MincHiaPettito
03-26-2007, 09:50 PM
I bet Kenny wishes he could take that Chris Stewart trade back. He was probably the best defensive catcher the Sox had since.....I don\'t even remember.

How is Lujan looking these days, anyway?

I miss Javier Lopez. Kenny is worrying me lately

oeo
03-26-2007, 09:52 PM
No thanks. I'd rather have Boone in our pen. His upside in helping our ballclub is higher than a career .239 .280 backup catcher. I don't care how good his D is.

Boone has not shown that he can succeed in the regular season. He's been awesome the last two springs...but last year, we all know how that went. I think Logan's stock is at a high right now...something about him just screams LOOGY.

The rest of our bullpen will be fine.

And defense is all we need from a backup catcher. It's not as if he's starting, so big deal if he doesn't tear the cover off the ball.

I do want them to see what we can get from the organization first, and make a trade later, though.

JB98
03-26-2007, 10:04 PM
7 options at 1st ahead of Hall, eh? I count two. Thome and Erstad. Maybe Dye in an emergency, but if it came to that it means Erstad is hurt and you can't spare Dye out of the outfield, anyhow. Who else are you going to put over there?

If you are looking to get the guy his AB's in a game that you want someone else catching, it makes the most sense to put him at 1st. The DH argument is bogus because being a DH is MUCH harder than you imagine, mentally. It's nearly impossible to get into the flow of the game at DH and is more like pinch hitting 4 times a game. The argument to catch him in a B game or minor league game is equally bogus because the entire reason for playing him was to get him ABs against MLB pitching. That kind of thing works for Thome and some others because they are just getting their reps in regardless of the quality of the pitcher. In that scenerio a Thome doesn't care whether he strikes out 5 times or hits 4 home runs, it's all the same to him because he's just getting the work in on mechanics, not looking to face real game situations. It's the quantity of ABs he's looking for, not the quality of the pitcher.

Hall might have been hotdogging a little more than he should have but that's neither here nor there, and blaming Ozzie is pure insanity. It's baseball, injuries happen, and the odds of him getting hurt playing first base were SUBSTANTIALLY lower than they would have been behind the plate.

Which reminds me. The "natural position" argument is bogus, too. These are professional athletes, presumably among the best conditioned people in the world. H.S. and College players regularly man a position that isn't their "natural" place on the field without incident, but the argument that a professional player who generally lines up at the most physically demanding position is somehow being put at undo risk by moving him to the LEAST physically demanding, for a game, holds water? Cmon.

Some of you must belong to the Jay Marriotti fan club...you just look for things to blame Ozzie for so you can say "I told you so" after so vehemently opposing his hiring in the first place.

1. Konerko
2. Erstad
3. Thome
4. Mackowiak
5. Ozuna
6. Dye
7. Hall

Yes, Hall really is the seventh option at 1B. At least in my opinion. At the highest, he'd be fifth on the pecking order.

Jjav829
03-26-2007, 10:18 PM
7 options at 1st ahead of Hall, eh? I count two. Thome and Erstad. Maybe Dye in an emergency, but if it came to that it means Erstad is hurt and you can't spare Dye out of the outfield, anyhow. Who else are you going to put over there?


Well, I just kind of threw out a number, not expecting it to be taken so literally, but if you really want me to have an exact number...

1.) Konerko
2.) Thome
3.) Erstad
4.) Eduardo Perez (if he makes the team)
5.) Mackowiak
6.) Dye
7.) Crede (easier transition in a pinch)
8.) Ozuna
9.) Hall

But really, it doesn't matter. The only reason Widger had to play at 3B and Dye at short was because we came across an extreme situation where 3 of our players were injured and we were on the West Coast, unable to get a player called up in time. It was a 1-game incident, and we lost the damn game anyway.

I don't even know why I've gone this far on this topic. The only point I was trying to make is that it's ridiculous to argue that Hall needed to get experience at 1B, or that an inning or two would help him learn the position. I don't even really blame Ozzie. I think it was a poor decision on Ozzie's part, but it's a freak injury. Not much we can do about it now. Hopefully someone steps up and can provide what we thought Hall would provide.

oeo
03-26-2007, 10:19 PM
1. Konerko
2. Erstad
3. Thome
4. Mackowiak
5. Ozuna
6. Dye
7. Hall

Yes, Hall really is the seventh option at 1B. At least in my opinion. At the highest, he'd be fifth on the pecking order.

Deleted because I'm an idiot.

JB98
03-26-2007, 10:25 PM
1. Paulie- was not there, played a B-game earlier.
2. Erstad- was there, but was getting work in center. Ozzie even had BA in right; and maybe they had plans for Hall at 1B in case of emergency.
3. Thome- you would rather have Thome diving for that ball and out for the season? :?:
4. Mackowiak- I don't remember if he played...if he didn't he likely wasn't there.
5. Ozuna- Again, don't know if he was there.
6. Dye- once again, probably wasn't there...but even if he was, the same holds for him as it did Thome.

You're missing the point. There were posters in this thread talking about the need for Hall to play a few innings at first base this spring in the event we need him to do so in a regular-season game. Jjav and I are both of the opinion that such an argument is ridiculous. There are several other players on the team that would be placed at first in a regular-season game before Hall, hence the list I posted.

All this stuff about who was there and not there for a spring training game is moot. That's a non-issue.

oeo
03-26-2007, 10:27 PM
You're missing the point. There were posters in this thread talking about the need for Hall to play a few innings at first base this spring in the event we need him to do so in a regular-season game. Jjav and I are both of the opinion that such an argument is ridiculous. There are several other players on the team that would be placed at first in a regular-season game before Hall, hence the list I posted.

All this stuff about who was there and not there for a spring training game is moot. That's a non-issue.

Yes, I realized that after I posted...see my now edited post. :redneck

JB98
03-26-2007, 10:28 PM
Yes, I realized that after I posted...see my now edited post. :redneck

No big deal. Simple misunderstanding.

Tragg
03-26-2007, 10:46 PM
Sounds like the club could use a little versatility.

Perhaps
Mr Versatility.:versatile

"Sign me and I'll confess: it hit the dirt."

anewman35
03-26-2007, 10:50 PM
You're missing the point. There were posters in this thread talking about the need for Hall to play a few innings at first base this spring in the event we need him to do so in a regular-season game. Jjav and I are both of the opinion that such an argument is ridiculous. There are several other players on the team that would be placed at first in a regular-season game before Hall, hence the list I posted.

I don't know about anybody else, but I never said there was a NEED for him to play a few innings at first. I was just saying, 99.999% of the time it wouldn't hurt, and might even have a slight benefit. This happened to be the .001%

jenn2080
03-26-2007, 11:33 PM
:D: Maybe we can bring back the Widge. :D:

UserNameBlank
03-26-2007, 11:57 PM
A two-armed Toby Hall is a career .265 hitter with a .301 OBP. He also has only hit double digit HR's (12) once in his 7 year career. I'd hate to see what a one-armed one would accomplish.
Toby Hall would have made a decent back-up catcher, not much more than that though.
I was being sarcastic, but for a catcher, he's been pretty good against LHP. His career splits vs. LHP:

2001: (47 ABs) .298/.340/.426
2002: (65 ABs) .200/.264/.308
2003: (150 ABs) .253/.307/.373
2004: (102 ABs) .294/.339/.431
2005: (129 ABs) .302/.331/.403
2006: (72 ABs) .292/.333/.500

Obviously he is backup catcher but Erstad is also a backup player. If there was a choice between the two, I'd take Toby because he brings value to the team behind the plate and against lefties. He does have some power - more than Darin anyway - and I think had he played in the Cell those power numbers would show up a little more. Erstad...meh. Maybe I've been on too much Erstad-Haterade, but I just don't want him on this team if he is going to start regularly. He's had some good career numbers against RHP but he has been such an up and down player over his career that it is hard to tell what you're going to get from him, and with the CF we have I think its BS to throw him in a platoon.

If Erstad has a nice year I'll admit I was wrong and know nothing about baseball, but I just don't see that happening. I think he's going to grind his way to the 60 day disabled list.

oeo
03-27-2007, 01:05 AM
Oh, BTW...remember when Brian gave up his #44 for Hall, and I said that number is hexed? Everyone laughed at me...but here we go again. This is not a coincidence, that number needs to be banned, BANNED I tell ya. :D:

Frontman
03-27-2007, 08:54 AM
Oh, BTW...remember when Brian gave up his #44 for Hall, and I said that number is hexed? Everyone laughed at me...but here we go again. This is not a coincidence, that number needs to be banned, BANNED I tell ya. :D:

Is this just a Chicago hex, or does it go league wide? If so, can we get Bonds to wear it?

It was a fluke injury, I just hope KW and the Sox don't panic to get a backup.

jabrch
03-27-2007, 10:06 AM
What would LAA want for Mike Napoli?

A ton I imagine...

CPditka
03-27-2007, 10:09 AM
:D: Maybe we can bring back the Widge. :D:


Please!

assrevolution
03-27-2007, 10:57 AM
With all these posts of who SHOULD have been at 1st base instead of Hall, are you saying you'd rather have Konerko, Thome, or Dye be the one that got hurt and is out for the year? That could have just as easily have happened. I think if you HAD to have one guy go down he'd be amongst the players that we could move on without. This is part of the game. Stop crying about it. Only one week to go!!!

Frontman
03-27-2007, 11:05 AM
With all these posts of who SHOULD have been at 1st base instead of Hall, are you saying you'd rather have Konerko, Thome, or Dye be the one that got hurt and is out for the year? That could have just as easily have happened. I think if you HAD to have one guy go down he'd be amongst the players that we could move on without. This is part of the game. Stop crying about it. Only one week to go!!!

Well, I can understand folks being upset, and no need to be mean about it AR. I do agree however that I would be upset more if it was Paulie or Big Jim that got hurt, but even then I wouldn't be calling for OG's head. Accident means uninentional.

RowanDye
03-27-2007, 11:55 AM
This is really unfortunate. Some have expressed this will take at least 4 months for recovery, does that mean maybe we could get him back some time in September? That would be the time when AJ needs the most rest!

The biggest concern here seems to be hitting against lefties in the absence of Hall.

I wouldn't mind seeing Ozzie try Anderson in CF, Ozuna in left (yikes, I know!), Erstad at first, and Konerko as DH a couple of times against tough lefties or if Thome needs a rest anyways.

I know this scenario would be even better with Hall instead of AJ or whoever behind the plate, but I think we could win a few games that way.

gobears1987
03-27-2007, 12:07 PM
Is there any way we can blame this Torn Labrum on Hal?

(Sorry I had to say it)

UserNameBlank
03-27-2007, 12:07 PM
This is really unfortunate. Some have expressed this will take at least 4 months for recovery, does that mean maybe we could get him back some time in September? That would be the time when AJ needs the most rest!

The biggest concern here seems to be hitting against lefties in the absence of Hall.

I wouldn't mind seeing Ozzie try Anderson in CF, Ozuna in left (yikes, I know!), Erstad at first, and Konerko as DH a couple of times against tough lefties or if Thome needs a rest anyways.

I know this scenario would be even better with Hall instead of AJ or whoever behind the plate, but I think we could win a few games that way.
Erstad vs. LHP??? Over Thome????? Yikes!

FedEx227
03-27-2007, 12:21 PM
Erstad vs. LHP??? Over Thome????? Yikes!

I see where he's coming from because Thome is god-awful against lefties, but I'll still take my chances with Thome over Erstad anyday.

PKalltheway
03-27-2007, 12:44 PM
If this is the absolute worst thing that can happen to the Sox this year, I'll take it. Yeah it sucks that we don't have Hall anymore, but he was a backup catcher. Like two other guys earlier said, we won with Chris Widger as our backup catcher. There's no need in blaming Ozzie, or anything stupid like that. **** happens.

Best of luck to Hall in his recovery!:smile:

russ99
03-27-2007, 02:26 PM
No sense crying over spilled milk about Stewart, the Sox signed Hall to a 2-year deal and there was no place for him. Worst-case scenario, Hall could come back the last month & (hopefully) playoffs.

Can I propose a crazy trade? (I bet it will be on that rumor site tomorrow...) :tongue:

Ozzie-fan Henry Blanco from the north-siders for Cub-killer Mackowiak. Not sure if the Cubs have a 3rd-stringer who could take over for Blanco.

Still, I'd give the in-house guys a shot first.

The Immigrant
03-27-2007, 02:37 PM
Ozzie-fan Henry Blanco from the north-siders for Cub-killer Mackowiak.

Mackowiak would refuse to report to the North Side.

oeo
03-27-2007, 02:41 PM
No sense crying over spilled milk about Stewart, the Sox signed Hall to a 2-year deal and there was no place for him. Worst-case scenario, Hall could come back the last month & (hopefully) playoffs.

Can I propose a crazy trade? (I bet it will be on that rumor site tomorrow...) :tongue:

Ozzie-fan Henry Blanco from the north-siders for Cub-killer Mackowiak. Not sure if the Cubs have a 3rd-stringer who could take over for Blanco.

Still, I'd give the in-house guys a shot first.

What is the fascination with this guy? He's a .225 career hitter that's making over 2 million a year. I'll pass. Toby Hall > Henry Blanco, and both are signed past this year.

IndianWhiteSox
03-27-2007, 02:54 PM
Is this just a Chicago hex, or does it go league wide? If so, can we get Bonds to wear it?

It was a fluke injury, I just hope KW and the Sox don't panic to get a backup.

Oh, BTW...remember when Brian gave up his #44 for Hall, and I said that number is hexed? Everyone laughed at me...but here we go again. This is not a coincidence, that number needs to be banned, BANNED I tell ya. :D:

Oh yea, because Hank Aaron never did anything that was worth a damn in the big leagues.

But, well thank god that he is a BACKUP CATCHER or else we really would have been screwed had Erstad, PK or Thome got injured on a play like that.

RowanDye
03-27-2007, 03:04 PM
Erstad vs. LHP??? Over Thome????? Yikes!

Notice I did say "when Thome needs a rest".

A. Cavatica
03-27-2007, 04:06 PM
Oh yea, because Hank Aaron never did anything that was worth a damn in the big leagues.

But, well thank god that he is a BACKUP CATCHER or else we really would have been screwed had Erstad, PK or Thome got injured on a play like that.


Hall would have been more valuable to this club than Erstad...

UserNameBlank
03-27-2007, 04:06 PM
Notice I did say "when Thome needs a rest".
Well, with Toby out now it looks like that is the only option if Ozzie wants to rest Thome and DH Konerko on the same day, but I'd much rather see Konerko play 1B and someone else DH. Even Pablo over Erstad.

maurice
03-27-2007, 05:19 PM
Silver Lining: The last time our high-paid backup catcher had a season-ending injury, we won the WS.

SoxFan64
03-27-2007, 05:46 PM
Found this on the Daily Herald (http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/story.asp?id=295096) site.

JB98
03-27-2007, 05:55 PM
What is the fascination with this guy? He's a .225 career hitter that's making over 2 million a year. I'll pass. Toby Hall > Henry Blanco, and both are signed past this year.

Henry Blanco is a horrible, horrible player. But ever since midseason 2006 WSIers have been pining for his acquisition. It's almost as nauseating as the Rowand crap, and KW's repeated trades for various and sundry Alomars.

seventyseven
03-27-2007, 05:55 PM
Good news on Toby. It makes sense, I suppose. If it doesn't improve by May, and he has surgery, he'd still be ready for spring training next year.

JB98
03-27-2007, 05:58 PM
Good news on Toby. It makes sense, I suppose. If it doesn't improve by May, and he has surgery, he'd still be ready for spring training next year.

In the meantime, no need for KW to make a trade. Wait until Hall is evaluated again in late April. See how Molina and/or Gonzalez do the first month of the season, and then determine the proper course of action.

Foulke You
03-27-2007, 06:00 PM
In the meantime, no need for KW to make a trade. Wait until Hall is evaluated again in late April. See how Molina and/or Gonzalez do the first month of the season, and then determine the proper course of action.
Agreed. If Hall is not coming back and Molina or Wiki Gonzalez don't work out, KW can always address this hole via a mid season trade. It's not like we're going to have to part with Josh Fields or Ryan Sweeney either. You can likely land a decent backup catcher for a fringe prospect.

Frontman
03-27-2007, 06:02 PM
Oh yea, because Hank Aaron never did anything that was worth a damn in the big leagues.

But, well thank god that he is a BACKUP CATCHER or else we really would have been screwed had Erstad, PK or Thome got injured on a play like that.


Hence, the reason I was asking. Aaron, Reggie Jackson both spring to mind as great #44's. No need to get aggravated IWS. Just was asking, since I thought the idea that the number might be cursed is silly.

anewman35
03-27-2007, 06:14 PM
I don't even know why I've gone this far on this topic. The only point I was trying to make is that it's ridiculous to argue that Hall needed to get experience at 1B, or that an inning or two would help him learn the position. I don't even really blame Ozzie. I think it was a poor decision on Ozzie's part, but it's a freak injury.

I'm gonna drop it now, I just want to point out that I'm not completly crazy (or if I am, Kenny Williams is, too):

Williams also defended his manager's decision to play Hall at first.

"Actually, his chances of getting hurt at first are far less than they are behind the plate," Williams said. "As ironic as it is, and as bitter a pill as it is to swallow, I don't think it adds anything to it just because he was over there.

"He needed to be over there, not only for the at-bats, but for an emergency situation. It's just an unfortunate situation for everyone concerned."

IndianWhiteSox
03-28-2007, 12:51 AM
Maybe this may not be so bad after all?

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070327&content_id=1861938&vkey=spt2007news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

DumpJerry
03-28-2007, 01:01 AM
Let us pray.

By the way, what is it with Ozzie's feelings about Molina?:?:

WhiteSox5187
03-28-2007, 01:15 AM
Let us pray.

By the way, what is it with Ozzie's feelings about Molina?:?:
I didn't really understand that and thought maybe he was joking...I think it was a great move by Ozzie to ask his pitchers who they liked.