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View Full Version : Kanseco needs to go


Iguana775
07-31-2001, 10:01 PM
he has Kd like 15 times the last few weeks. this is getting old!!!!!! bring up crede and send dip ***** packing

NUKE_CLEVELAND
07-31-2001, 10:04 PM
:canseco

"I'm really strong!! Mabye I should go to bat with a telephone pole so I might have a chance to hit the damn ball."

Iguana775
07-31-2001, 10:08 PM
he couldnt hit the ball with a 5 foot wide piece of ply wood!!!!!!!!!


:canseco

"Duhhhhhh.......I am suppose to hit the ball???????"

NUKE_CLEVELAND
07-31-2001, 10:11 PM
:canseco

"Forget about hitting the ball, how bout we hit the 'roids instead?"

danman31
07-31-2001, 10:11 PM
We should trade him in a waiver deal, but NOT TO THE TWINS!!!. We should have dealt him already, but no we had to keep Mr. K.

Jerry_Manuel
07-31-2001, 10:13 PM
bring up crede and send dip ***** packing

Williams said today that Crede had a problem with his swing that they want him to work on.

KempersRS
07-31-2001, 10:15 PM
Williams said today that Crede had a problem with his swing that they want him to work on.

If Williams said that, then Crede must have a perfect swing, call him up now.

Jerry_Manuel
07-31-2001, 10:19 PM
If Williams said that, then Crede must have a perfect swing, call him up now.

I guess so!
Williams was meeting the media before the game and I caught the last 30 seconds of the interview. Anyway the reporter says When asked about Joe Crede, Williams said he has some problems with his swing that he needs to work on.

KempersRS
07-31-2001, 10:19 PM
I really don't understand why Canseco wasn't traded, he won't be here next season. The Sox wanted to find out if Liefer had any skills if he played on a daily basis, so why is Canseco here at all, it makes no sense.

Jerry_Manuel
07-31-2001, 10:21 PM
I really don't understand why Canseco wasn't traded, he won't be here next season. The Sox wanted to find out if Liefer had any skills if he played on a daily basis, so why is Canseco here at all, it makes no sense.

They can still deal him, but it will be harder to do.

KempersRS
07-31-2001, 10:23 PM
They can still deal him, but it will be harder to do.

Yes, I know, but I would think if the Sox are trying to experiment with Liefer, they'd want to start giving him as much time as possible. Time he loses to Canseco.

Jerry_Manuel
07-31-2001, 10:25 PM
Yes, I know, but I would think if the Sox are trying to experiment with Liefer, they'd want to start giving him as much time as possible. Time he loses to Canseco.

Maybe they don't want to experiment with Liefer?

KempersRS
07-31-2001, 10:26 PM
Maybe they don't want to experiment with Liefer?

I thought I remember reading it in an article, but if you didn't read it, I sure as hell didn't. You are the master of News clippings.

Jerry_Manuel
07-31-2001, 10:29 PM
I thought I remember reading it in an article, but if you didn't read it, I sure as hell didn't. You are the master of News clippings.

Thanks!
What is said to the press and what the organization feels is two different things.

Agent 007
08-02-2001, 01:44 AM
It is probably time for Jose to go. He'll most likely not be around next season anyway; I'm sure he wants a chance to win another World Series and will sign with a contending team.

With the trade deadline passing, it's clear that there are a dozen or so winning teams who would love to have a strong bat in the lineup every day. I hope he finds one!

PaleHoseGeorge
08-02-2001, 01:52 AM
Gee, I hate to interrupt such a fine feast of Kanseco bashing, but you do know he hit two homeruns for kids with cancer this evening? He promised them while signing autographs during batting practice.

Would this be a good time to mention Ruth only hit one?

"Bash me tomorrow, okay?":canseco

Jerry_Manuel
08-02-2001, 01:56 AM
Gee, I hate to interrupt such a fine feast of Kanseco bashing, but you do know he hit two homeruns for kids with cancer this evening? He promised them while signing autographs during batting practice.

That is a great story, one of those things that make baseball look good for a second or two before Selig does something stupid.

Would this be a good time to mention Ruth only hit one?

:shammy
I would have hit 3!

Agent 007
08-02-2001, 01:59 AM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge
Gee, I hate to interrupt such a fine feast of Kanseco bashing, but you do know he hit two homeruns for kids with cancer this evening?

I'm sure nobody minds the interruption. Here's betting that the next time Jose goes 0-4, it'll be, "What kids? What home runs?"

"What win?"

Bash away!

CLR01
08-02-2001, 02:57 AM
Gee, I hate to interrupt such a fine feast of Kanseco bashing, but you do know he hit two homeruns for kids with cancer this evening? He promised them while signing autographs during batting practice.


Well lets just give him the saint title now then. Come on, i am glad the kids got their thrills and all but what did Jose really do?? He told some kids he would try to hit a home run for them and promptly went out and swung for the fences trying to do it. It just so happens he connected twice. Jose is about nothing other than padding his stats so he is not playing with Newark next year. Alot of people here have basically given up hope on this season and are calling for the younger guys to get some playing time to see how they do, well why not trade/release jose and give guys like liefer/ crede some extended playing time in the DH spot to see if they can handle major league pitching. Its obvious that the spot is just being occupied until Frank gets back but defense is something that can accurately be evaluated in spring training, where as hitting is not. Lets see if they kids can really play.

Mathew
08-02-2001, 03:06 AM
I seem to have been fairly alone on both of these opinions, but I think that both Canseco and Leifer are of little or no use to us. Both swing for a homerun every swing and generall strike out.
Canseco has 8 home runs now but only 3 have been usefull. How many usefull Ks do Canseco and Leifer have? Leifer is bad. Bad D. Bad Avg. Bad Eye. Some Hrs. Not good enough. All the same applies to Canseco and add Too Old.

voodoochile
08-02-2001, 08:52 AM
Canseco has 8 home runs now but only 3 have been usefull. How many usefull Ks do Canseco and Leifer have? Leifer is bad. Bad D. Bad Avg. Bad Eye. Some Hrs. Not good enough. All the same applies to Canseco and add Too Old.

What?

All Canseco has done in his first 30 games is hit 8 HR, and drive in 20 while hitting close to .300... <sarcasm>Of course none of those stats happened when it mattered</sarcasm>

That means that over the course of a season he would be on pace to hit 40+HR and drive in 100+ runs... I know there is no chance for him to make the team next year, and yes, I remember Sunday when he was the third out in 3 seperate innings including twice with runners in scoring position and again to end the game as the tying run at the plate in a one run loss. But, right now he is the biggest bargain in baseball. Let's stop bashing this bash brother for at least one night and admit he has done more than anyone hoped for. Give the man his props. This team is dying for someone to step up offensively and now that someone is... it isn't enough... K's aren't the worst thing that can happen to a player and if Jose keeps hitting baseballs into the night, people will have to start pitching to Maggs. Maybe last night was the beginning of something. Teams have been pitching around Maggs to get to Jose and last night for the first time... it backfired... darn...

Let's get back to .500 tonight and root for the A's to stomp Cleveland and all of a sudden our boys are 7.5 back on August 2nd... All of Cleveland is looking for a fat lady, but she hasn't even started to warm up yet... And if Jose continues to provide some much needed offensive pop and the young pitchers continue to look like future Cy Young candidates, she won't be singing until late September... and hopefully the tune will be something like this...

"All the little girls in the tight skirts know that Cleveland Sucks, Cleveland Sucks..."

Tragg
08-02-2001, 09:36 AM
He's done okay here.

Problem is we can't afford to carry two DH's on the roster.

Seems like a great time to move him to a contender for a couple of prospects, given that there is virtually no chance he will be here next year.

voodoochile
08-02-2001, 10:27 AM
Seems like a great time to move him to a contender for a couple of prospects, given that there is virtually no chance he will be here next year.

Ummmm... How? He won't make it through Waivers, I guarantee it. If nothing else, count on Minnesota to claim him. Besides, wouldn't that be "giving up"? No white flags...

Anyone who thinks Cleveland is going to run away with the division is crazy...

Sounds like I just found my new signature...

FarWestChicago
08-02-2001, 12:15 PM
Sounds like I just found my new signature...

Nice signature, VC.

Jerry_Manuel
08-02-2001, 12:23 PM
Nice signature, VC.

Yeah I liked the Hendrix won but this seems ok to!

oldcomiskey
08-02-2001, 05:26 PM
your what hurts---canseco aint costing is jack and he IS CONTRIBUTING--idiots of all ya

FarWestChicago
08-02-2001, 05:29 PM
your what hurts---canseco aint costing is jack and he IS CONTRIBUTING--idiots of all ya

First, do you mean "idiots all of ya"?

Second, what about those of us who agree Josie's not costing jack and is contributing? Are we idiots, too?

oldcomiskey
08-02-2001, 05:33 PM
my apologies to those who agree with Me--its just I get a little red assed now and then when people dont THINK

FarWestChicago
08-02-2001, 05:36 PM
my apologies to those who agree with Me--its just I get a little red assed now and then when people dont THINK

LOL, that's understandable. I have that problem all day long with a couple of my employees...sigh...

Jerry_Manuel
08-02-2001, 05:41 PM
Far West told us:
LOL, that's understandable. I have that problem all day long with a couple of my employees...sigh...

I know that CLR can be a real pain in the ass can't he West?

:)

DaveGusinSeattle
08-02-2001, 08:30 PM
:bundy
WHAT?

:canseco
After what I did last night?

:hawk
He just missed it. Waita minute. You can put it on the booooard!!! MERCY!!!

CLR01
08-02-2001, 11:00 PM
I know that CLR can be a real pain in the ass can't he West?


Well Jer i hope you werent planning on winning the PTC contest this year, you have just been sentenced to a years worth of Embree picks.

rmusacch
08-03-2001, 12:16 AM
[i]We should trade him in a waiver deal, but [B]NOT TO THE TWINS!!! We should have dealt him already, but no we had to keep Mr. K.

Maybe there were not any offers for him. It takes two teams to make a trade.

Jerry_Manuel
08-03-2001, 12:20 AM
Well Jer i hope you werent planning on winning the PTC contest this year, you have just been sentenced to a years worth of Embree picks.

I don't think I could catch up to soxheads anyway.

:embree
I'm getting better dammit!

Mathew
08-03-2001, 01:08 AM
If Jose Canseco was really as some people make him out to be we'd win more games. Yes he was cheap. But he is not underpaid. If you bargan shop that's what you get, but to be happy get a good bargan player is missing that the team has done squat to get a good player. He has no defensive possibilities and yes striking out all the time does hurt the team. Hitting the most home runs is not winning the most games. Ask Tampa Bay Toronto and Milwakee and of course Chicago.

KingXerxes
08-03-2001, 02:09 PM
:hawk

"Yessir.......I get letters from all sorts of baseball fans that say "Hawk, you've been around baseball for the past 40 years, why isn't Jose Canseco amongst the league leaders in home runs?" Why just the other day I was talking with some people....people who you all know and respect as baseball experts as well and they were saying..."

:DJ

"Which people? Who are you talking about specifically?"

:hawk

"Well they're good friends, and baseball experts and you all know who they are even though I'm not going to give you their names.......and they agree with me. Jose would be much, much better off in this game if he played a outfield position on defense. I've seen it before....like Ol' Al Spangler - Yeah Ol' Al hated playing DH with a passion...."

:DJ

"Wait a second - I know Al Spangler and he retired before there even was a designated hitter position."

:hawk

"See what I mean....he hated it - There's El Guapo Caballero with a real hang-wiff-em....Yeah Ol' Al Spangler...Mercy!"

Jerry_Manuel
08-03-2001, 03:00 PM
DJ TOLD HAWK:
"Wait a second - I know Al Spangler and he retired before there even was a designated hitter position."


As Harry Doyle said in the Movie Major League:

"He's not the best color man in the business for nothing folks"

KingXerxes
08-06-2001, 02:50 PM
What is going to happen if Canseco hits......let's say.......15 more home runs in the rest of this year, and ends up with 25 for about 1/2 of a year? Do the White Sox sign him for next year? Are they even tempted to sign him if he hits 15 more?

Paulwny
08-06-2001, 02:52 PM
And he continues to lead the team in BA.

KingXerxes
08-06-2001, 03:10 PM
We'll all be victims of Canseco's success. It will be interesting to see how KW handles this. My hopes are that the phone lines are melting right now with Williams trying to get ANYTHING for him in a waiver deal.

Bucktown
08-06-2001, 05:24 PM
Forget the fact that Canseco is hitting .300+, when he gets out it is by a strikeout so let's get rid of him! Thanks for that piece of mindbending logic.

HELLO, Jose has the highest average on the team going into today's game (save Lowe who is 1 for 3).

Let's see Crede is batting less in AAA than Canseco in the majors. Crede has less HRs in a season than Canseco has in 30 games. Oh yeah, Crede has 36 RBIs in 254 at-bats while Canseco had 22 in his first 119 at-bats (add 2 more from today).

I've seen Joe Crede in the makors this year. He batted .167 and unlike Jose he had more strikeouts than hits.

For those of you that can't stand Jose's succes...quit your whining and enjoy it.

Randar68
08-06-2001, 05:32 PM
Let's see Crede is batting less in AAA than Canseco in the majors. Crede has less HRs in a season than Canseco has in 30 games. Oh yeah, Crede has 36 RBIs in 254 at-bats while Canseco had 22 in his first 119 at-bats (add 2 more from today).

*****!!!!!!!

In your own words, "Get a clue."


Joe Crede 2001:
Charlotte: .288 16 HR 57 RBI .347 OBP

and he plays 3rd base, not a bad OF or DH....

Randar68
08-06-2001, 05:33 PM
For those of you that can't stand Jose's succes...quit your whining and enjoy it.

For those of you that have no idea how to find correct and accurate stats, keep your mouths shut....


Crow anyone?????

Bucktown
08-06-2001, 05:38 PM
Great, your stats are more up to date then mine. As I said, Crede scored 36 RBIS and 9 HRs in his first 254 at-bats. Campare that to Canseco in his first 30 games IN THE BIG LEAGUES.

So he plays 3rd base. Does that mean you want to move Perry or Valentin to the DH?

I don't understand this insanity. Canseco is superior in every stat and we are comparing minors to majors. Unbelivable.

I am at my clue quota, I will FedEX some of mine to you...

voodoochile
08-06-2001, 05:42 PM
I thjnk it comes down to what we are trying to accomplish. If the Sox are still playing for this year than Canseco gets the time. If the Sox decided to give up and play for next year than Crede should come up and play everyday. The two are really apples and oranges. One is a stopgap DH who is looking to impress people so he can sign on somewhere next year and make his run at the HOF. The other is a AAA top notch prospect who will be the Sox regular 3B inside of a year... Why are you two comparing them?

Randar68
08-06-2001, 05:42 PM
I don't understand this insanity. Canseco is superior in every stat and we are comparing minors to majors. Unbelivable.

The insanity is that who do you move to play him next season??? DUH!!!!!!!!!

Trade Frank, Magglio, or Carlos to make room for 38 year-old Canseco next year????


Give me a F'ing break!

He has performed admirably and been a fantastic addition, but there is nowhere for him to play, period!

Crede plays 3rd base, you cannot comare a 3rd baseman's offensive #'s to someone who has never played 1 day anywhere but outfield (Neglecting the pitching 'experiment')

That is simply foolish, and you know it......

Why in the world are you bothering to compare the 2 in the first place, That FedEx shipment is going to be returned to sender with an additional package containing some common sense....

FarWestChicago
08-06-2001, 05:46 PM
How the hell did Crede get in this thread anyway? This sucker is old and we were talking Josie. Now it's back with Crede. How the heck did that happen? :)

Bucktown
08-06-2001, 05:49 PM
Voodoo, I would contend that the Sox should sign Canseco next year. Why would you want to get rid of your team leader in batting average, on-base percent and HRs/AB? Sure Canseco is old, but will he deteriorate that quickly over the winter?

Of course Frank is our DH next year, but I would love to see Canseco off the bench or in the outfiled.

Canseco has done more than anyone could have possibly asked of him. He has not been the clubhouse cancer, in fact quite the opposite. Why throw him in the scrap heap?

voodoochile
08-06-2001, 05:55 PM
There is no point in paying Canseco to be a bench player who will play every 5th day at most, or PH once a day. He won't like it and the Sox can't afford the money it will probably take to sign him next year to be a bench player. If you put him in the outfield, where do you put him? CF? Move Mags to CF and Canseco goes to RF? Trade Lee and put Canseco in left? Trade Walnuts and put Lee at first and Jose in LF? I don't personally think these decisions make much sense, but maybe it is just me...

Big picture, where does Jose play next year if the Sox decide to resign him? Answer that one logically without destroying what little defense we currently have and I'll listen to the idea of keeping Jose, but realistically... he won't be here...

Bucktown
08-06-2001, 05:59 PM
Maggs in center?

Randar68
08-06-2001, 06:08 PM
Jose's already said and dropped 'hints' on numerous occassions that he wants to and thinks he should be playing every day....


So, now, where is he going to play next year Bucktown????

voodoochile
08-06-2001, 06:09 PM
They did that once this year as an emergency for one inning. He was out the next inning. Defensively that is a nightmare outfield. Weak armstrength, no speed, bad gap coverage... Yeah, offensively it is great, but defensively it totally sucks. I don't see it. Beisdes, if Canseco continues at his present pace, how much will he cost to sign? $5 million? More? Plenty of teams looking for a monster DH... Heck a few NL teams might give him a crack at a corner outfield postion and cross their fingers...

While your suggestion is the best idea should the Sox decide to keep Jose, I just don't see it...

Bucktown
08-06-2001, 06:47 PM
I agree that is potentially a nightmare defense-wise it sure would be fun. I hate trading .050 points batting average and a lot of power for a centerfielder.

The other reason to keep Jose is to hedge in the event that Frank never gets right. While Frank is 4 years younger than Canseco (and 9 years younger than Harold) none of them are spring chickens. Frank may never get back.

CLR01
08-06-2001, 08:17 PM
How the hell did Crede get in this thread anyway? This sucker is old and we were talking Josie. Now it's back with Crede. How the heck did that happen?


I think it was me that brought crede into the thread. I said that since the season is realistically over, we should release/trade jose and give our young players a chance to see if they can handle major league pitching.

FarWestChicago
08-06-2001, 09:07 PM
I think it was me that brought crede into the thread. I said that since the season is realistically over, we should release/trade jose and give our young players a chance to see if they can handle major league pitching.

Well now I'm less confused. It's a long thread and I couldn't find the Crede source, LOL!

doublem23
08-06-2001, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by Bucktown
I agree that is potentially a nightmare defense-wise it sure would be fun. I hate trading .050 points batting average and a lot of power for a centerfielder.

Our defense isn't spectacular to begin with, why make it worse to accomdate a 38-year old?

We have way too many players for too few positions. Someone has to go, and one of those players on the list will be Jose Kanseco.

Mathew
08-06-2001, 10:24 PM
If he want's the league minimum again I still don't take him. I'm glad he's not as bad a Baines and that's it. He represents what we don't want to be, a team swinging for the fence striking out with no speed and bad defence. The upside is very few meaningful homeruns. Leifer too. Canseco is not worth th PH job because when he was a temp player he was batting .221 and I think that would drop. As I think he'll drop next year where ever he plays.

Bucktown
08-06-2001, 11:03 PM
I just dont get these comments:

If he want's the league minimum again I still don't take him. I'm glad he's not as bad a Baines and that's it. He represents what we don't want to be, a team swinging for the fence striking out with no speed and bad defence.

Folks, he leads the team in average and OBP. How does that reconcile with "only swinging for the fences."

Our defense isn't spectacular to begin with, why make it worse to accomdate a 38-year old?

This is the logic that brought Roce Clayton to the team. I don't think Canseco is given proper credit for his defense. He played OF on a World Series team. Can someone backup this bad defense claim other than bringing up that one time the ball bounced of his head? He is 1 for 1 this year in 13 innings.

doublem23
08-06-2001, 11:25 PM
OK - When the A's were in the World Series, he was like 25 years old. Now he is like 38. Kanseco is a defensive downgrade at any position.

Mathew
08-06-2001, 11:53 PM
I think it's fairly obvious to anyone who watched baseball even in the 80's that Canseco has never been very good defensively. Good outfielder make good plays Jose does and did not. Good Right fielders have great arms, Jose neither does nor did. He was certainly not on the lineup on any WS lineup for defensive purposes and nor is he on ours. I won't fault anyone for liking him this year but to pretend he isn't a defensive liability is incorrect. His O.B.P. he is a power hitter who is pitched around, when a pitcher puts it around the plate he swings hard. He has in recent history had at least a 2-1 K to BB ratio. He has a good average over 119 AB's, but in my estimation he is not a complete player nor someone who hits for average. I don't think he will hit for a good average. He hasn't in probably 10 years. He has nearly as many K's as hits and for that reason I would say he is swinging for the fences.