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OEO Magglio
03-19-2002, 07:48 PM
Manuel is announcing the starting pitching rotation and bullpen on Thursday, so I just wanted to know who you guys thought should be in the pen, and starting. This is what I think:

Rotation:
1. Buehrle
2. Ritchie
3. Garland
4. Wright
5. Rauch


Bullpen:
Porzio
Wylie
Wunsch
Osuna
Glover
Foulke

of course Howry will be there, but this is my oppinion on what it should be, and Parque will most likely be in there, I think that Manuel should take 12 pitchers, but he said he is only taking 11.

dougs78
03-19-2002, 08:05 PM
I could see them leaving Howry and or Parque behind for extending spring training. I actually like that option except for one thing. If they are staying to get their velocity up, what happens if it doesn't come back? Do they just stay in the minors or in extended ST? It sort of creates a bind if you leave them behind to accomplish a certain goal and then they dont' achieve it.

HawkDJ
03-19-2002, 08:19 PM
Rotation:
Buehrle
Ritchie
Garland
Wright
Rauch

Bullpen:
Foulke
Glover
Parque
Osuna
Porzio
Wunsch

RedPinStripes
03-19-2002, 08:30 PM
Originally posted by HawkDJ2k2
Rotation:
Buehrle
Ritchie
Garland
Wright
Rauch

Bullpen:
Foulke
Glover
Parque
Osuna
Porzio
Wunsch

You might be right on target.

Chisox_cali
03-19-2002, 08:38 PM
Rotation:
Buehrle
Ritchie
Wright(Because they want him Starting in Seattle)
Garland
Rauch

Bullpen:
Foulke
Glover
Osuna
Porzio
Wunsch
Howry

Jerry_Manuel
03-19-2002, 08:54 PM
Might want to add Lorenzo to your bullpen list folks.

FarWestChicago
03-19-2002, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
Might want to add Lorenzo to your bullpen list folks. Until his arm falls off and needs to be surgically reattached again. :(:

baggio202
03-19-2002, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel
Might want to add Lorenzo to your bullpen list folks.

why???

voodoochile
03-20-2002, 12:42 AM
Yeah, Parque probably starts the season on the DL. Howry gets traded as part of a package deal and Lorenzo makes the squad along with whomever they pick up in the Howry deal...

LongDistanceFan
03-20-2002, 01:04 AM
i think that maybe, just maybe the ritchie trade and the players we gave up is now coming back to haunt us.

DrCrawdad
03-20-2002, 01:47 AM
Originally posted by LongDistanceFan
i think that maybe, just maybe the ritchie trade and the players we gave up is now coming back to haunt us.

I've said this over and over and I'll say it again.

God I hope KW got this Wells/Lowe/Fogg for Ritchie trade right.

So far KW has dealt

Eyre
Sirotka
Beirne
Baldwin
Bradford
Myette
Wells
Lowe
Fogg
J. Pena

What pitchers do we have in return?
Ritchie
Glover
Majewski

And now we have a shortage of pitchers and there is talk of having to bring in another pitcher?

Of all the deals above, I regret completely only one - the Myette deal brought Clayton and that whole fiasco.

Bradford, well Olivo may end up ok but I think we could use Bradford in the pen.

Wells/Lowe/Fogg was too much for Ritchie. God, I hope I'm wrong and Ritchie wins 20 games. At this early point though, Wells & Lowe have done MUCH BETTER THAN RITCHIE.

baggio202
03-20-2002, 02:43 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad


I've said this over and over and I'll say it again.

God I hope KW got this Wells/Lowe/Fogg for Ritchie trade right.

So far KW has dealt

Eyre
Sirotka
Beirne
Baldwin
Bradford
Myette
Wells
Lowe
Fogg
J. Pena

What pitchers do we have in return?
Ritchie
Glover
Majewski

And now we have a shortage of pitchers and there is talk of having to bring in another pitcher?

Of all the deals above, I regret completely only one - the Myette deal brought Clayton and that whole fiasco.

Bradford, well Olivo may end up ok but I think we could use Bradford in the pen.

Wells/Lowe/Fogg was too much for Ritchie. God, I hope I'm wrong and Ritchie wins 20 games. At this early point though, Wells & Lowe have done MUCH BETTER THAN RITCHIE.

dont forget osuna we got him....and wasnt pena a schueler move???...you could also add simas and david wells to the list of pitchers kw let get away..since he made no effort to re-sign either one ... i agree with you 100%...we traded a whole staff of healthy arms (minus simas - baldwin proved last year he was back)..and kept the mash unit...now it looks like it might bite us in the arse...just have to wait and see and hope for the best..nothing else we can do...

RedPinStripes
03-20-2002, 03:00 AM
just have to wait and see and hope for the best..nothing else we can do...

That's the closest thing you've said to a positive about the pitching staff. :D:

longshot7
03-20-2002, 03:40 AM
Originally posted by HawkDJ2k2
Bullpen:
Foulke
Glover
Parque
Osuna
Porzio
Wunsch

Three lefties?

Jerry_Manuel
03-20-2002, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by baggio202
why???

Because he's going to make the team, and will be in the bullpen.

Jerry_Manuel
03-20-2002, 07:58 AM
Originally posted by baggio202
you could also add simas and david wells to the list of pitchers kw let get away..since he made no effort to re-sign either one ... i agree with you 100%...we traded a whole staff of healthy arms (minus simas - baldwin proved last year he was back)..

I don't think Wells would have resigned here even if the Sox made him an offer. Perhaps they made a mistake in not resigning Simas. The only mistake he might have made in getting rid of Baldwin is the players he got in return.

voodoochile
03-20-2002, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by Jerry_Manuel


I don't think Wells would have resigned here even if the Sox made him an offer. Perhaps they made a mistake in not resigning Simas. The only mistake he might have made in getting rid of Baldwin is the players he got in return.

The only way they could have resigned Simas was to offer him arbitration - which they were not going to do with him coming off of major surgery. Once the failed to offer him arbitration, they were barred from even negotiating with him until May 1st. It just wasn't going to happen...

DrCrawdad
03-20-2002, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by baggio202


dont forget osuna we got him....and wasn't pena a schueler move???...you could also add simas and david wells to the list of pitchers kw let get away..since he made no effort to re-sign either one ... i agree with you 100%...we traded a whole staff of healthy arms (minus simas - baldwin proved last year he was back)..and kept the mash unit...now it looks like it might bite us in the arse...just have to wait and see and hope for the best..nothing else we can do...

Osuna, forgot him. Looked awful last season. He looked really impressive in his outing against the Cubs. We really need Osuna to step up. I know we sent Majewski to LA for Osuna, but I don't recall who else was sent.

Pena, was dealt to Boston during the Schu-era. Pena has hooked up with the Brewers. Not that I'm saying Pena is much to weep over, but lefties sure to seem to be valuable. They have long careers, often regardless of how they perform.

Derek Hasselhoff, another pitcher that I overlooked. Hasselhoff's claim to fame is being related to Mr. Baywatch. Hasselhoff, IIRC, put up good numbers in AAA but the Sox didn't rate him very highly. We sent Hasselhoff to San Fran for that puke Alan Embree, another left-hander who's still got a job.

It just makes me sick to think that after all these years of BS about the Sox great arms of the future that now we're in the position of being short of pitching.

Again, God I hope KW got the Wells/Lowe/Fogg for Ritchie right.

- DrCrawdad.

RichH55
03-20-2002, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad


I've said this over and over and I'll say it again.

God I hope KW got this Wells/Lowe/Fogg for Ritchie trade right.

So far KW has dealt

Eyre
Sirotka
Beirne
Baldwin
Bradford
Myette
Wells
Lowe
Fogg
J. Pena

What pitchers do we have in return?
Ritchie
Glover
Majewski
Osuna

And now we have a shortage of pitchers and there is talk of having to bring in another pitcher?

Of all the deals above, I regret completely only one - the Myette deal brought Clayton and that whole fiasco.

Bradford, well Olivo may end up ok but I think we could use Bradford in the pen.

Wells/Lowe/Fogg was too much for Ritchie. God, I hope I'm wrong and Ritchie wins 20 games. At this early point though, Wells & Lowe have done MUCH BETTER THAN RITCHIE.

Wow look at that cadre of Hall of Famers he dealt....Seriously Bradford might be nice to have back but ill take my chances on Olivio panning out over Bradford's 30 innings....Admittedly the only trade you would truly like to have back is the Clayton deal and that essentially has nothing to do with the arms we dealt(being known more for being Canadian than a good pitcher is a problem for a major leaguer).....

Eyre for Glover was an absolute steal....and JB was gone this year one way or another so essentially getting Osuna for him was a good deal(Barry/Berry fiasco notwithstanding...

I don't feel comfortable with the current rotation(Bullpen should be fine), but I feel alot better with Ritchie as the 2nd Starter rather than trying to project Wells or whoever Jerry's flavor of the week is(at least when you hear Wright is looking for a prominent rotation spot it is 3 not 2)....If you think Lowe would be a good #2 for a team expected to win its division you're nuts. Wells could very well turn it around, but the question then becomes could he do it here? That I don't have an answer too, sometimes a change of scenery is needed.

Sirotka would be coming off surgery here as well and in the last year of a deal(IIRC), and I would still make that Wells deal especially if you didnt have hindsight to help you(Gord Ash simply made a bad deal).

Fogg, Pena, Beirne? Now that is just an axe to grind on KW...these are not make or break pitchers and we can easily replace/better what they bring to the table with guys we have....


Of course we could use another pitcher for the rotation and Lidle is looking better everyday, but the moves that KW did make regarding pitching have far from bankrupted the team......Even if we had all the guys you mentioned ALONG with the guys we got we would be talking about bringing in a 2-3 Starter type(most teams do need this), so your argument kind of falls a bit flat to me........If you want to say signing Alomar and dealing for Royce were Lou Brock awful moves than I'm all for it...but lets not get into this Scott Eyre/Herbert Perry/Kevin Beirne lament crap...thanks

DrCrawdad
03-20-2002, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by RichH55
Wow look at that cadre of Hall of Famers he dealt....Seriously Bradford might be nice to have back but ill take my chances on Olivio panning out over Bradford's 30 innings....Admittedly the only trade you would truly like to have back is the Clayton deal and that essentially has nothing to do with the arms we dealt(being known more for being Canadian than a good pitcher is a problem for a major leaguer).....

Funny! I'd take Bradford in the pen. But I think that trade will be fine. We need a defensive catcher in the system (other than MJ).

< Eyre for Glover was an absolute steal>

I agree.

<....and JB was gone this year one way or another so essentially getting Osuna for him was a good deal(Barry/Berry fiasco notwithstanding...>

Yeah, but I believe that we sent another arm to LA. Too bad we didn't get the pitcher Barry or whatever his name is.

<I don't feel comfortable with the current rotation(Bullpen should be fine), but I feel alot better with Ritchie as the 2nd Starter rather than trying to project Wells or whoever Jerry's flavor of the week is(at least when you hear Wright is looking for a prominent rotation spot it is 3 not 2)....>

Well the pitching is a real concern. I'm listening now as the Sox are giving up double digits, again.

<If you think Lowe would be a good #2 for a team expected to win its division you're nuts. >

Lowe was pretty good to have around. He did a good job spot starting and long relief.

<Wells could very well turn it around, but the question then becomes could he do it here? That I don't have an answer too, sometimes a change of scenery is needed.>

Actually in one respect I hope that Wells/Lowe/Fogg don't do too well, cause it they do I'll be hearing about it from my Cubbie fan friends. Although I hope they kick the Cubs arse on a regular basis.

<Sirotka would be coming off surgery here as well and in the last year of a deal(IIRC), and I would still make that Wells deal especially if you didnt have hindsight to help you(Gord Ash simply made a bad deal).>

I agreed with the deal. But in the end we got very little out of David Wells. Maybe he helped our young guys like Buehrle, if not Boomer was nothing but a distraction.

<Fogg, Pena, Beirne? Now that is just an axe to grind on KW...these are not make or break pitchers and we can easily replace/better what they bring to the table with guys we have....>

I didn't mean that we gave up Cy Young, just that we ditched a bunch of arms.

baggio202
03-20-2002, 05:19 PM
we didnt send baldwin to la for osuna..it was masaoka....mejewski went to la in the osuna trade and came back in the bladwin trade...unless majewski pans out someday we got absolutely nothing for baldwin

RichH55
03-20-2002, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by baggio202
we didnt send baldwin to la for osuna..it was masaoka....mejewski went to la in the osuna trade and came back in the bladwin trade...unless majewski pans out someday we got absolutely nothing for baldwin

Go back and reread what I wrote....the key word is "essentially"...Majewski was the main part of the package that got Osuna and since Majewski came back in the Baldwin deal....>ESSENTIALLY we got Osuna for Baldwin...and we also got another Leftie, but he's already gone...so I'm dealing with the revelvant parts that are here regarding the pitching staff.......BTW what did the Dodgers get for Baldwin? So I'm thinking KW got the better part there

RichH55
03-20-2002, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad


<Fogg, Pena, Beirne? Now that is just an axe to grind on KW...these are not make or break pitchers and we can easily replace/better what they bring to the table with guys we have....>

I didn't mean that we gave up Cy Young, just that we ditched a bunch of arms.


Isn't the point the quality rather than the quantity of the arms? How many Scott Eyres or Penas are useful for an organization? I mean hell if this is the criteria then point out that we lost Pulshipher and Embree too.....big damn deal if we lose a pitcher who can't pitch

SOXit2EM
03-20-2002, 05:47 PM
I definitely think Garland should be #3, and Wright 4. Garland has more experience, and has shown more consistency. Besides the fact Wright just got lit up again today. :angry:

Cheryl
03-20-2002, 05:50 PM
Originally posted by SOXit2EM
I definitely think Garland should be #3, and Wright 4. Garland has more experience, and has shown more consistency. Besides the fact Wright just got lit up again today. :angry:

Maybe they're just getting all this out of their system, and they'll settle down once the season starts.

Okay, I don't beleive that either.

DrCrawdad
03-21-2002, 01:34 AM
Originally posted by RichH55
Isn't the point the quality rather than the quantity of the arms? How many Scott Eyres or Penas are useful for an organization? I mean hell if this is the criteria then point out that we lost Pulshipher and Embree too.....big damn deal if we lose a pitcher who can't pitch

This is scary but I wonder if Paul Sullivan has read this thread?

http://www.chicagosports.com/whitesox/content/story/0,1984,178239,00.html

"The Sox's pitching problems have been evident this spring, while some former Sox pitchers are in the groove:

"Right-hander Tanyon Sturtze, who was traded to Tampa Bay in 2000 for Tony Graffanino, is sporting a 1.13 earned-run average this spring...

"Lefty David Wells, who signed with the Yankees over the winter, threw five scoreless innings against Cincinnati on Tuesday, lowering his ERA to 2.30, 10th in the AL...

"With five scoreless outings this spring, left-hander Jesus Pena is primed to win a spot on the Brewers' roster...

"Left-hander Scott Eyre, now with Toronto, is ninth among AL pitchers with a 2.25 ERA...

"Right-hander Sean Lowe is the current favorite for the No. 5 spot in Pittsburgh's rotation, having allowed two earned runs in 10 innings. Kip Wells is also in the rotation..."

Pulshiper and Embree were brutal with Sox. Somehow these two Aces keep getting MLB jobs. I wish I could throw with my left hand.

baggio202
03-21-2002, 01:41 AM
Originally posted by RichH55



Isn't the point the quality rather than the quantity of the arms? How many Scott Eyres or Penas are useful for an organization? I mean hell if this is the criteria then point out that we lost Pulshipher and Embree too.....big damn deal if we lose a pitcher who can't pitch

take a look what eyre has done in toronto..he pitched excellent in his end of season call up...a 3.45 era and 2 saves... and he won the blue jays 5th starter spot this spring....last time i checked he was unscored on in 12 ip...15k's...
i wouldnt call glover for eyre a steal on our part just yet...it might take a few years to see who is really the better pitcher

baggio202
03-21-2002, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad


This is scary but I wonder if Paul Sullivan has read this thread?

http://www.chicagosports.com/whitesox/content/story/0,1984,178239,00.html

"The Sox's pitching problems have been evident this spring, while some former Sox pitchers are in the groove:

"Right-hander Tanyon Sturtze, who was traded to Tampa Bay in 2000 for Tony Graffanino, is sporting a 1.13 earned-run average this spring...

"Lefty David Wells, who signed with the Yankees over the winter, threw five scoreless innings against Cincinnati on Tuesday, lowering his ERA to 2.30, 10th in the AL...

"With five scoreless outings this spring, left-hander Jesus Pena is primed to win a spot on the Brewers' roster...

"Left-hander Scott Eyre, now with Toronto, is ninth among AL pitchers with a 2.25 ERA...

"Right-hander Sean Lowe is the current favorite for the No. 5 spot in Pittsburgh's rotation, having allowed two earned runs in 10 innings. Kip Wells is also in the rotation..."

Pulshiper and Embree were brutal with Sox. Somehow these two Aces keep getting MLB jobs. I wish I could throw with my left hand.

so whats the deal???..do we rush these guys then give up on them too soon...our pitching coach not doing his job???...does kenny and his scouts not know how to evaluate talent...or is it just wierd luck all these guys seem to be ressurecting their careers with other teams???

RichH55
03-21-2002, 03:26 AM
Originally posted by baggio202


take a look what eyre has done in toronto..he pitched excellent in his end of season call up...a 3.45 era and 2 saves... and he won the blue jays 5th starter spot this spring....last time i checked he was unscored on in 12 ip...15k's...
i wouldnt call glover for eyre a steal on our part just yet...it might take a few years to see who is really the better pitcher


Please also consider ages, what role you could honestly expect from Eyre if he was still with the sox, leverage at the time of trade....stats that actually count....though I'll give you that Eyre is opening some eyes this spring, he would still need to perform rather well for at least some real MLB games before I question the move

voodoochile
03-21-2002, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by RichH55



Please also consider ages, what role you could honestly expect from Eyre if he was still with the sox, leverage at the time of trade....stats that actually count....though I'll give you that Eyre is opening some eyes this spring, he would still need to perform rather well for at least some real MLB games before I question the move

Really... Can we at least wait until Eyre proves he can do it during the season before annointing him the next Cy Young.

I keep seeing these lists of pitchers we have traded...
Eyre, Sirotka, Beirne, Baldwin, Bradford, Myette, Wells, Lowe, Fogg, J. Pena

What leads anyone to believe that those guys are good enough to make this team. Sirotka - still injured may not be back until July if ever. Baldwin - okay, but he was mediocre before and probably would continue to be so. All he would do is eat up a slot that a younger more talented pitcher should have. Lowe? Okay, but for whatever reason, he wasn't going to be here, so get over it. None of the other guys have shown more than intermitent flashes AT BEST. Some of them have shown nothing at all in there time with the Sox or since they left.

I'm not saying the Sox have a perfect staff, and I would love to see the addition of one more veteran pitcher of any kind, still, it isn't like we have traded a group of guys who are going to win the next 10 Cy Youngs and 10 Rolaids Fireman of the Year awards. This is what we have, and NO ONE knows how they will perform during the regular season in regular ballparks.

I for one can't wait until we start using our starting lineup on a daily basis. This team is going to make a serious run at 1000 runs this season, IMO. It has a great mix of OBP and SLP all through the top 7 guys. We are going to be very very dangerous. We only need an average staff to get this done. It is going to be touch and go the first 3 months as the younger guys settle in, but I think by the second half, guys like Wright and Rauch will be in a grove and no longer care about the fact that they are facing the Yankees or the Royals.

We as fans have to learn to be patient. I know, I know - we have waited 85 years. So, what's one more give or take. This team is very close and it IS improving. Let's wait and see what happens before jumping off the overpass into oncoming Dan Ryan traffic...

Paulwny
03-21-2002, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile

We as fans have to learn to be patient. I know, I know - we have waited 85 years. So, what's one more give or take. ...


Don't say that to some 80 yr. old sox fans who may be in the great beyond in a few yrs.

DrCrawdad
03-21-2002, 01:55 PM
voodoochile & rich, Thanks for alleviating some of my worry. You have to admit though that Sox pitching has not done much to inspire confidence so far this spring.

voodoochile, you make a great point about the Sox offense. I think that they really are going to be great too.

One thing I've just thought of too is that really for the most part core of the Sox pitching staff is the same as last year, minus Lowe/Kip/Boomer and none of those pitchers that left were consistent, regular starters. If Osuna can pitch like he has this spring, he'll be a help. So my point is that essentially we've got the same staff and that really the Sox have given themselves a better regular starter in Ritchie. The team last year played over .500 and there is good reason to think that with the addition of Ritchie and the return of Osuna, Wunsch & Barcelo that the Sox SHOULD do even better.

Now please Ritchie and Garland have a couple of good outings before the end of ST to help calm the nerves of me other Sox fans.

Ok, I feel better.

- DrCrawdad.

PaleHoseGeorge
03-21-2002, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by DrCrawdad
voodoochile, you make a great point about the Sox offense. I think that they really are going to be great too.

I would agree with this statement, except for what actually happened last spring. Instead of offense being a positive component to our team, the management turned it into a negative.

Have we all forgotten what Williams and Manuel did last April when the pitching staff began to implode? Eldred was on the DL after one start, Parque followed him two weeks later.

Did the Sox double-down on the offense to make up the difference? NO!!!! That would make too much sense for this crew.

What Manuel and Williams did was attempt to tighten up the DEFENSE, presumably to support the pitchers better. Our line up featured defensive specialists while guys with better bats sat on the bench or played out of position. With automatic outs 7-9, the offense at the top of the order started to press to make up the difference--with disastarous results. It wasn't till late-May that they got their act together and started hitting like they are capable of.

Where did we land for this? A 14-29 start.

Does anyone think Williams and Manuel wouldn't handle a similar crisis any different in 2002?

Iwritecode
03-21-2002, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


I would agree with this statement, except for what actually happened last spring. Instead of offense being a positive component to our team, the management turned it into a negative.

Have we all forgotten what Williams and Manuel did last April when the pitching staff began to implode? Eldred was on the DL after one start, Parque followed him two weeks later.

Did the Sox double-down on the offense to make up the difference? NO!!!! That would make too much sense for this crew.

What Manuel and Williams did was attempt to tighten up the DEFENSE, presumably to support the pitchers better. Our line up featured defensive specialists while guys with better bats sat on the bench or played out of position. With automatic outs 7-9, the offense at the top of the order started to press to make up the difference--with disastarous results. It wasn't till late-May that they got their act together and started hitting like they are capable of.

Where did we land for this? A 14-29 start.

Does anyone think Williams and Manuel wouldn't handle a similar crisis any different in 2002?

One difference, Harold and Julio aren't on the team anymore. Plus, Clayton can't possibly start off that bad again can he? Can he?

The only bench player that I would worry about them inserting for defensive purposes would be Simmons. To replace Lofton? Doubtful... What about the rest of the bench? Graffy? Rowand? Liefer? Harris? I don't see any of these guys going in to shore up the defense should the offense struggle a little. I think we'll be fine.

voodoochile
03-21-2002, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode


One difference, Harold and Julio aren't on the team anymore. Plus, Clayton can't possibly start off that bad again can he? Can he?

The only bench player that I would worry about them inserting for defensive purposes would be Simmons. To replace Lofton? Doubtful... What about the rest of the bench? Graffy? Rowand? Liefer? Harris? I don't see any of these guys going in to shore up the defense should the offense struggle a little. I think we'll be fine.

Yeah, there is less to tinker with this year. There isn't a question mark in CF anymore and Clayton and Valentin have set positions again. The bench is going to be just that - a bench, not a group of guys who start every second game. If not, then they ALL need the coaches need to be fired, including JM and KW needs to find a new head coach - if he actually has that authority that is...

PaleHoseGeorge
03-21-2002, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode
I don't see any of these guys going in to shore up the defense should the offense struggle a little. I think we'll be fine.

You lie down with dogs...

:KW :jerry
"Woof! Woof! Woof!"

:)

RichH55
03-21-2002, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


Yeah, there is less to tinker with this year. There isn't a question mark in CF anymore and Clayton and Valentin have set positions again. The bench is going to be just that - a bench, not a group of guys who start every second game. If not, then they ALL need the coaches need to be fired, including JM and KW needs to find a new head coach - if he actually has that authority that is...


Plus lets not forget Frank going down to injury....losing your best hitter means you lose him and others guys press(C. Lee especially after awhile).....Getting Frank back means another slot locked in and if Liefer is your 10th Hitter than you also have some hitting talent to come off the bench