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SABRSox
03-21-2007, 02:19 AM
Link. (http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-070320soxbits,1,3805993.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines)

Milwaukee has an interest in Mackowiak and could be offering outfielder Brady Clark. The Brewers envision Mackowiak as a utility player who could play second and third base more often than he would with the White Sox.

Well, I guess since Luis Terrero has suddenly become the hottest commodity in baseball, everybody is expendable. Track Mack, send BA to AAA. Who cares, right?

Ugh. The season can't start soon enough.

Grzegorz
03-21-2007, 04:41 AM
Keep Mackowiac; he's too valuable. Ask yourself this; why trade Mack for Brady Clark if Terrero is hot? Can you say "glut of outfielders"?

And why is Terrero on a hot streak? Is he having a better statistical spring training than BA?

Anderson needs at bats. IMO I feel they should be up here in Chicago. If not then ship him down. Please do not give up (trade) on BA because Terrero is supposedly having a hot spring training (I still do not see it).

Who's the better defensive outfielder?

dcb56
03-21-2007, 05:11 AM
Keep Mackowiac; he's too valuable. Ask yourself this; why trade Mack for Brady Clark if Terrero is hot? Can you say "glut of outfielders"?

And why is Terrero on a hot streak? Is he having a better statistical spring training than BA?

Anderson needs at bats. IMO I feel they should be up here in Chicago. If not then ship him down. Please do not give up (trade) on BA because Terrero is supposedly having a hot spring training (I still do not see it).

Who's the better defensive outfielder?

Certainly not Mackowiack. I say good ridance. It's a real shame because I like the guy, but Ozzie has proven time and again he will put Mack in the OF regardless the number of plays he butchers. With Ozuna and Cintron holding down backup positions in the infield it seems Mack really doesn't have much of a place on this team as an infielder, so if KW can go out and get a backup outfielder who can actually play the outfield instead of giving Ozzie the opportunity to throw Mack out there then more power to him.

santo=dorf
03-21-2007, 05:54 AM
Just to be clear, Mack is a corner OF. It wasn't his fault Ozzie kept playing him in center.

If Joe Crede was in CF last year probably playing like Mack, would people be all over him? Doubt it.

eastchicagosoxfan
03-21-2007, 05:55 AM
If Mack is dealt, and Anderson and Terrero both come north, is there a roster spot for another player? I don't mind a trade, but does have to be for a guy that needs to be added to a final roster?

soxfanatlanta
03-21-2007, 07:00 AM
Ugh. The season can't start soon enough.

+1

I'd hate to see him go; if anybody gets hurt for a long period of time, Mack will be able to plug in nicely. I don't care if he does not get any AB for the first two weeks, this is just crazy talk.

His commute from Oak Lawn would take a hit, too. :smile:

oeo
03-21-2007, 07:12 AM
Just to be clear, Mack is a corner OF. It wasn't his fault Ozzie kept playing him in center.

If Joe Crede was in CF last year probably playing like Mack, would people be all over him? Doubt it.

Mackowiak has been awful this spring in the corners, as well. I'm starting to believe that he cannot play any defensive position well. And again...it was sacrifice offense for defense, or defense for offense; stop blaming this situation on Ozzie because he didn't have a real CF'er, other than Anderson (who was obviously not getting the job done).

He's a good bat off the bench, but that's all he is. I don't want Brady Clark, though.

eriqjaffe
03-21-2007, 08:41 AM
If Mack is dealt, and Anderson and Terrero both come north, is there a roster spot for another player?How about Ben Sheets as a #5 starter?

UserNameBlank
03-21-2007, 09:07 AM
There is one simple solution to solve all of these problems with Anderson, Mack, and Eduardo Perez.

RELEASE DARIN ERSTAD.

Unfortunately that will not happen. The fact is with Ozuna's legs, Mack as LH pinch hitter/super sub, Thome+Konerko capable of playing 1B, and Anderson looking like he is ready for a better year in the bigs, we do not need Erstad. Bring Eduardo Perez north since he can hit lefties and Erstad can't hit.

eriqjaffe
03-21-2007, 09:40 AM
That leaves us with, again, the same gaping backup CF black hole we suffered through last year. Our backup outfielders should not be our backup infielders.

ComiskeyBrewer
03-21-2007, 09:46 AM
Brady could play Center, but you wouldn't get much offense from him. His defense is decent, but he lost a lot of pop at the plate last year(basically an older, slightly better version of BA). Just seems like a dumb move if the sox make it. Helps out the brewers tho.

jabrch
03-21-2007, 10:09 AM
Mack is very valuable to an NL team. We could probably convert him into a decent prospect.

soxfan13
03-21-2007, 10:12 AM
Certainly not Mackowiack. I say good ridance. It's a real shame because I like the guy, but Ozzie has proven time and again he will put Mack in the OF regardless the number of plays he butchers. With Ozuna and Cintron holding down backup positions in the infield it seems Mack really doesn't have much of a place on this team as an infielder, so if KW can go out and get a backup outfielder who can actually play the outfield instead of giving Ozzie the opportunity to throw Mack out there then more power to him.

Give Ozzie some credit in one of the papers last week Ozzie was quoted as saying Mack will not play center this year because as Ozzie said he enjoys managing the Chicago White Sox:cool:

Jerko
03-21-2007, 10:19 AM
Mack doesn't belong in the outfield PERIOD. The man can't judge a fly ball. Catching the ball is the easy part. Seeing it off the bat and judging where it's gonna go is what he has trouble with IMO.

soxtalker
03-21-2007, 10:26 AM
Mack is very valuable to an NL team. We could probably convert him into a decent prospect.

Though a lot of the discussion in this thread has focused on Brady, I think that your comment is closer to the mark. Mack has had a great spring. He's a valuable player. If he can't get enough playing time here, it is time for KW to get the best value on the market. Unless he's part of bigger package, it would seem that a prospect would make a lot of sense.

russ99
03-21-2007, 10:36 AM
Though a lot of the discussion in this thread has focused on Brady, I think that your comment is closer to the mark. Mack has had a great spring. He's a valuable player. If he can't get enough playing time here, it is time for KW to get the best value on the market. Unless he's part of bigger package, it would seem that a prospect would make a lot of sense.

Brady Clark is a decent OF sub, but we already have tons of those. He certainly isn't the answer for CF.

Mackowiak is mostly highly regarded for his bat over his fielding, and could be better utilized in the NL. He's really an infielder, subbing in the outfield. I wonder if the Sox can swindle any of the Brewers relievers for him? I'm not sold on Aardsma/Sisco yet.

Also, Fields is a much better backup at 3rd, which is Mack's natural position, so if Crede gets injured the Sox are already covered there, as with the rest of the infield with Cintron & Ozuna

Chicken Dinner
03-21-2007, 10:37 AM
More Cubune BS. :mad:

CLR01
03-21-2007, 10:53 AM
What is it with this board and bench players. You'd think they were shopping Konerko or Dye with some of these reactions. It's Mack, he's a nice guy to have on the bench but he is replaceable.

Fred Manrique
03-21-2007, 11:00 AM
How about Ben Sheets as a #5 starter?

Shouldnt this be in teal? We get a young #1 starter for Mack... Wow

IndianWhiteSox
03-21-2007, 11:14 AM
Brady Clark for Mack isn't a bad deal in any case. In fact, then you probably get a #2 hitter in the lineup everyday(for the Anderson haters out there), for a guy who won't play much this year.

maurice
03-21-2007, 11:18 AM
Mack is very valuable to an NL team. We could probably convert him into a decent prospect.

Good poiint. It appears that Clark's involvement in the trade talks is just speculation, and we all know how accurate the Trib is when it speculates about the Sox future moves. Plus, Ozzie already has expressed his undying man-love for Terrero and complained about having too many OF.

soxtalker
03-21-2007, 11:57 AM
Good poiint. It appears that Clark's involvement in the trade talks is just speculation, and we all know how accurate the Trib is when it speculates about the Sox future moves. Plus, Ozzie already has expressed his undying man-love for Terrero and complained about having too many OF.

I know many people on WSI tend to assign less credibility to the Tribune, but do you really think that this is idle speculation by them? I'd guess that someone on one of the clubs is talking (maybe the Brewers, maybe another team?).

goon
03-21-2007, 11:58 AM
As said earlier, if the Sox do make a move with Mack, I hope it's for a prospect or reliever, the last thing this team or organization needs is a middle of the road OF. Between Ozuna, Terrero, Anderson, Podsednik, and Erstad there are five guys who can play LF, three can play Center... that's more than enough, Brady Clark just complicates the situation even more.

Madscout
03-21-2007, 12:08 PM
Suppose the rumors about Gooch's contract not being extended. What does everyone feel about Mack at 2nd?

ComiskeyBrewer
03-21-2007, 12:51 PM
Brady Clark is a decent OF sub, but we already have tons of those. He certainly isn't the answer for CF.

Mackowiak is mostly highly regarded for his bat over his fielding, and could be better utilized in the NL. He's really an infielder, subbing in the outfield. I wonder if the Sox can swindle any of the Brewers relievers for him? I'm not sold on Aardsma/Sisco yet.

Also, Fields is a much better backup at 3rd, which is Mack's natural position, so if Crede gets injured the Sox are already covered there, as with the rest of the infield with Cintron & Ozuna

It's possible. I don't think Coco, Turnbow, Capallan, Villanueva or Shouse are available, but just about anybody else can be had, but about everybody else is crap.

oeo
03-21-2007, 12:52 PM
Suppose the rumors about Gooch's contract not being extended. What does everyone feel about Mack at 2nd?

As a starter?! I'd imagine he's just below average at 2nd base, like he is at every other position. I like Mackowiak, but he's not a starter, and I definitely don't want to see him starting at 2nd.

This won't even be a problem, since Iguchi will be re-signed.

ComiskeyBrewer
03-21-2007, 12:53 PM
I know many people on WSI tend to assign less credibility to the Tribune, but do you really think that this is idle speculation by them? I'd guess that someone on one of the clubs is talking (maybe the Brewers, maybe another team?).

This wouldn't shock me. Melvin has said he needs to make a trade to get rid of the glut of OFers the crew has. With Braun being sent to AAA, brewers need someone to take over 3B til May. Mack could fit that spot.

minutia
03-21-2007, 12:55 PM
+1


His commute from Oak Lawn would take a hit, too. :smile:
He does not like to talk about Oak Lawn. It is in the past. He lives in Tampa or something now.

oeo
03-21-2007, 12:57 PM
He does not like to talk about Oak Lawn. It is in the past. He lives in Tampa or something now.

Didn't he finish high school in NW Indiana, anyway? I know his parents live in Lowell, IN, now.

maurice
03-21-2007, 01:36 PM
do you really think that this is idle speculation by them?

I'm not just basing it on their well-deserved, crappy reputation. Put that to one side and look at the way it is phrased. Gonzalez wrote that Milwaukee "could be offering" Clark. Based on his choice of words, I think that he heard / believes that Milwaukee wants Mackowiak but that he's only speculating that they offered Clark. It's not clear that KW or Ozzie have any interest in adding another OF.

eriqjaffe
03-21-2007, 03:39 PM
Shouldnt this be in teal? We get a young #1 starter for Mack... WowI originally had it in deep pink, but then I looked at Ben's BBRef page:

http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/sheetbe01.shtml

He hasn't pitched more than 157 innings in two seasons, and has been battling inner ear problems, which affect his balance.

He was also on the DL twice last year with shoulder troubles:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/6618/injuries.html

So maybe...I dunno, is there something like deep pink, but less pipe-dreamy?

getonbckthr
03-21-2007, 04:10 PM
Brady Clark is not any better than Anderson. This trade makes no sense and would really piss me off.

UserNameBlank
03-21-2007, 05:09 PM
Brady Clark is not any better than Anderson. This trade makes no sense and would really piss me off.

Brady Clark is a corner OF playing CF, just like Pods was when he was there. He's worse much worse than Anderson in the OF. The only thing that he does a whole lot better than Anderson is get on base, but with Terrero and Erstad there would be no need for him. Now, if the Sox dumped Erstad and picked up Clark as a backup I would be very happy.

SouthsideChi
03-21-2007, 05:23 PM
What about swinging a trade where Macko and prospects go to Milwaukee for Geoff Jenkins? We could put Geoff in left and then try to figure out who we would like to start in center (still guessin it would be Erstad) and move Pods for a reliever.

Erstad
Gooch
Thome
Konerko
Dye
Pierzynski
Crede
Jenkins
Uribe

Seems like a pretty good line-up to me. Of course Erstad leading off isnt the greatest lead-off hitter, or one I particularly like, but I'm sure someone in the organization could figure out a better alignment.

Crede_Fan
03-21-2007, 05:30 PM
What about swinging a trade where Macko and prospects go to Milwaukee for Geoff Jenkins? We could put Geoff in left and then try to figure out who we would like to start in center (still guessin it would be Erstad) and move Pods for a reliever.

Erstad
Gooch
Thome
Konerko
Dye
Pierzynski
Crede
Jenkins
Uribe

Seems like a pretty good line-up to me. Of course Erstad leading off isnt the greatest lead-off hitter, or one I particularly like, but I'm sure someone in the organization could figure out a better alignment.

I don't really like it. Jenkins is not the answer.

UserNameBlank
03-21-2007, 05:50 PM
I don't really like it. Jenkins is not the answer.

I agree. There is a reason Milwaukee hasn't moved him yet, and I'm guessing it is because no one wants that crap. Man, Milwaukee has to have to most mediocre outfield ever.

WSox597
03-21-2007, 06:36 PM
I know his parents live in Lowell, IN, now.

His father is a mechanic with the company I work for, real nice guy and a good mechanic.

He gets a lot of good-natured abuse about the CF situation.

ComiskeyBrewer
03-21-2007, 09:35 PM
I agree. There is a reason Milwaukee hasn't moved him yet, and I'm guessing it is because no one wants that crap. Man, Milwaukee has to have to most mediocre outfield ever.

I wouldn't go that far. With Bill Hall in Center, and Corey Hart in Right, the Brewers have some good power and speed. Mench and Jenkins in Left should put up decent numbers. Brady is an odd man out, as the 6th outfielder behind main backup Gabe Gross.

Vernam
03-21-2007, 10:01 PM
If they do trade Mack-o-wack so Denny Terrio or whatever his name is can stay on the squad, cue the inevitable Phil Rogers "Kenny Williams is dumping salaries" column. :rolleyes:

Vernam

Grzegorz
03-22-2007, 04:49 AM
Certainly not Mackowiack. I say good ridance. It's a real shame because I like the guy, but Ozzie has proven time and again he will put Mack in the OF regardless the number of plays he butchers.

That's an indictment of Ozzie and his irascibility impacting his managerial decisions rather than an indictment of Mackowiac.

How about Ben Sheets as a #5 starter?

Ha, ha, ha...

Ben Sheets would be a legitimate #1 candidate on this team.

JorgeFabregas
03-22-2007, 08:44 AM
Mack is one of the better hitters in the organization. He just needs to play in the right defensive positions. Although last year he seemed uncomfortable in every position, perhaps because of his bad experience in CF.

Bottom line: No reason to clear a roster spot for Terrero, who is kind of a goof.

Thome25
03-22-2007, 08:54 AM
Betweem the glut in the outfield we have with Pods, Erstad and BA and the infield backups in Ozuna, Erstad, and Cintron (Can't Toby Hall play some 1b too?!) Where and when will Mack play??

I don't think we have room for him anymore. If we cn possibly trade him for another arm ala the Gload for Sisco deal then I'm all for it.

maurice
03-22-2007, 10:55 AM
Mack is one of the better hitters in the organization.

:o:
Career .262 AVE, .333 OBP, .413 SLG.
He can't hit lefties at all.

russ99
03-22-2007, 01:06 PM
It's possible. I don't think Coco, Turnbow, Capallan, Villanueva or Shouse are available, but just about anybody else can be had, but about everybody else is crap.

I was thinking about Capallan, Villanueva or Shouse. I did use the word 'swindle". :D:

twentywontowin
03-22-2007, 01:12 PM
He does not like to talk about Oak Lawn. It is in the past. He lives in Tampa or something now.

What a sellout. :tongue:

I think he still has a lot he can contribute to on this team, keep him around.