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View Full Version : Nice outing for Floyd


A. Cavatica
03-18-2007, 06:58 PM
Though I'm a big doubter, props to Deep Pink for his outing today. This knots the fifth starter race right back up.

SluggersAway
03-18-2007, 07:11 PM
Like I stated in the gameday thread:

"So both of our potential 5th start pitchers get rocked facing a lineup of mostly major leaguers, but look good when they face other minor leaguers.

Sounds about right for pitchers not ready for the majors yet."

I think Haeger may be the best option as these guys get more work in before they move up or out.

dickallen15
03-18-2007, 07:46 PM
That's exactly what it looks like. These guys struggle when they start the game, but shine when they are inserted later against substitutes. Let the knuckleballer have the job.

ilsox7
03-18-2007, 07:50 PM
Like I stated in the gameday thread:

"So both of our potential 5th start pitchers get rocked facing a lineup of mostly major leaguers, but look good when they face other minor leaguers.

Sounds about right for pitchers not ready for the majors yet."

I think Haeger may be the best option as these guys get more work in before they move up or out.

And as I also said in the game thread, this is not true. The first 7 hitters in the Padres line-up today all had 4 plate appearances. Floyd and Danks faced very similar competition today.

ondafarm
03-18-2007, 07:59 PM
And as I also said in the game thread, this is not true. The first 7 hitters in the Padres line-up today all had 4 plate appearances. Floyd and Danks faced very similar competition today.

Really only the two LF competitors split time. The rookies only got one up each.

Looks like Floyd faced serious competition.

SluggersAway
03-18-2007, 08:05 PM
Floyd had a lot more subs up at bat during his innings.

WhiteSox5187
03-18-2007, 08:16 PM
Danks looked (or I should say sounded cuz I was listening on radio) good for the first three innings and then sort of imploded. Floyd sounded good coming in relief but as someone mentioned he did face a lot more minor leaguers but also handled a couple of major league hitters well too. This race isn't over. It's so tricky to judge a knuckleballer (especially in Arizona) but this IS looking like a two horse race.

ilsox7
03-18-2007, 08:17 PM
Floyd had a lot more subs up at bat during his innings.

Batters Danks Faced = 20
M. Giles x 3
B. Giles x 3
Cameron x 2
Gonzalez x 2
Bard x 2
Greene x 2
Kouzmanhoff x 2
Branyan x 2
Blum x 2

Batters Floyd Faced = 18
M. Giles x 1
B. Giles x 1
Cameron x 2
Gonzalez x 2
Bard x 2
Greene x 2
Kouzmanhoff x 2
McAnulty x 2
Blum x 1
Sledge x 1
Sinisi x 1
Robles x 1

So, of the 18 batters Floyd faced, 13 of them were the same guys Danks faced. Of the remaining 5 AB's, 2 were against a guy who looks to be having a nice spring (McAnulty). It's amazing what taking some time to actually look at a box score can do for analysis and thought.

SluggersAway
03-18-2007, 08:24 PM
Yea, and your stats prove my point, look back at last week when Floyd started and Danks was substituted in.

ChiTownTrojan
03-18-2007, 08:31 PM
Yea, and your stats prove my point, look back at last week when Floyd started and Danks was substituted in.
Actually, his stats refuted your point. They mostly faced the same batters.

On another note, Mackoviak had his second straight big game. You guys still think this guy doesn't have a place on the club?

itsnotrequired
03-18-2007, 08:32 PM
On another note, Mackoviak had his second straight big game. You guys still think this guy doesn't have a place on the club?

Mackowiak absolutely has a place on the team, a place on the bench.

SluggersAway
03-18-2007, 08:34 PM
Floyd faced more subs just like Danks did last week. Those are the facts.

As for Mack, yea he has a spot as long as he isn't playing CF.

ilsox7
03-18-2007, 08:37 PM
Yea, and your stats prove my point, look back at last week when Floyd started and Danks was substituted in.

Huh? Your point was that Danks faced major leaguers today and Floyd faced minor leaguers. I'll even use your own quote:

So both of our potential 5th start pitchers get rocked facing a lineup of mostly major leaguers, but look good when they face other minor leaguers.

Sounds about right for pitchers not ready for the majors yet.

Except, when you take note of the facts, Floyd faced at least 13 major league hitters today and possibly 15, as McAnulty has a shot to make the big club. It's all nice and good to have an opinion and make certain assertions, but when the facts fly directly in the face of what you're trying to prove, you may want to re-think your assessment.

SluggersAway
03-18-2007, 08:40 PM
Relax kid, I was only pointing out that they both pitched better once the subs came in the middle of the game than when they started. No need for arm wrestling and twisting words out of context. I want them both to excel.

ilsox7
03-18-2007, 08:46 PM
Relax kid, I was only pointing out that they both pitched better once the subs came in the middle of the game than when they started. No need for arm wrestling and twisting words out of context. I want them both to excel.

Well, "kid," I was not the one twisting words around (I did not try to change my assertions mid-stream). I was simply refuting your original, unfounded and incorrect position about Gavin Floyd's success today being the result of facing minor league competition.

SluggersAway
03-18-2007, 08:50 PM
Sorry high priestess, just look back at Danks great numbers last week. Each pitched better when pitching against a lineup with more minor leaguers. That is the point, sorry your reading comprehension is less than stellar.

SluggersAway
03-18-2007, 08:52 PM
Guess, you missed it when i said "mostly."

ShoelessJoeS
03-18-2007, 08:57 PM
Mackowiak absolutely has a place on the team, a place on the bench.Agreed. Although most people cringe when he plays in CF, I trust him more than anyone else off the bench to come into a game and deliver the big hit.

Daver
03-18-2007, 08:59 PM
Relax kid, I was only pointing out that they both pitched better once the subs came in the middle of the game than when they started. No need for arm wrestling and twisting words out of context. I want them both to excel.

Sorry high priestess, just look back at Danks great numbers last week. Each pitched better when pitching against a lineup with more minor leaguers. That is the point, sorry your reading comprehension is less than stellar.

Take awhile off and use the time learn how to civilly discuss something.

veeter
03-18-2007, 08:59 PM
John Danks: 12.2 inn. 10 K/ 1 BB.
Gavin Floyd: 14 inn. 6 K/ 7 BB.
To me,throwing strikes is the key factor. Danks has the edge for the 5th spot IMO.

ilsox7
03-18-2007, 09:03 PM
John Danks: 12.2 inn. 10 K/ 1 BB.
Gavin Floyd: 14 inn. 6 K/ 7 BB.
To me,throwing strikes is the key factor. Danks has the edge for the 5th spot IMO.

I agree that strikes are a huge factor. I wonder if Gavin's outing today will be more of a springboard for his last couple of spring appearances or just a show of inconsistency. IIRC, he walked his first batter and then issued no more walks. I really wish the game today would have been televised, as listening to it on the radio did not do much for our ability to evaluate these guys (from a fan's perspective).

itsnotrequired
03-18-2007, 09:03 PM
Take awhile off and use the time learn how to civilly discuss something.

Blast, I was searching for this smiley but you were too quick on the draw.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f21/cbotnyse/smiley/popcorn.gif

Daver
03-18-2007, 09:04 PM
Blast, I was searching for this smiley but you were too quick on the draw.

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f21/cbotnyse/smiley/popcorn.gif

Fastest bow in the midwest.

veeter
03-18-2007, 09:16 PM
I agree that strikes are a huge factor. I wonder if Gavin's outing today will be more of a springboard for his last couple of spring appearances or just a show of inconsistency. IIRC, he walked his first batter and then issued no more walks. I really wish the game today would have been televised, as listening to it on the radio did not do much for our ability to evaluate these guys (from a fan's perspective).I wanted to see it too. Danks has shown he's not afraid of the bat. Now, today he got shelled eventually, but in the long long run, I think it's a blue print for success. And yes, hopefully Gavin takes off from here. He 'sounded' pretty darn good today.

thomas35forever
03-18-2007, 10:07 PM
Take awhile off and use the time learn how to civilly discuss something.
Well, I guess SluggersAway is going away for awhile.

gobears1987
03-18-2007, 10:29 PM
Fastest bow in the midwest.
Tell me about it. There's a reason I don't argue PTCs with you. You'd shoot me before I finished typing.

goon
03-18-2007, 10:33 PM
I'm glad Floyd had a good outing, he seems like the best "fit" for the fifth spot. Danks will have his day, but unless he is lights out and the other candidates struggle, it makes sense to send him to AAA for numerous reasons.

NoNeckEra
03-18-2007, 10:54 PM
John Danks: 12.2 inn. 10 K/ 1 BB.
Gavin Floyd: 14 inn. 6 K/ 7 BB.
To me,throwing strikes is the key factor. Danks has the edge for the 5th spot IMO.
How can you evaluate these guys with so few innings under their belts anyway? It's going to come down to a gut decision by the staff, combined with their bias coming into ST.

infohawk
03-18-2007, 10:58 PM
I agree that strikes are a huge factor. I wonder if Gavin's outing today will be more of a springboard for his last couple of spring appearances or just a show of inconsistency. IIRC, he walked his first batter and then issued no more walks. I really wish the game today would have been televised, as listening to it on the radio did not do much for our ability to evaluate these guys (from a fan's perspective).
I shelled out the $15 bucks or so for MLB.tv this month. I wanted to check it out. If my investment sheds any light on this debate, I'll consider it money well spent! Here's my conclusion from watching both pitchers.

Danks gave up more runs, but he clearly looked like the better pitcher. Danks pitched 3.2 innings, striking out four and walking nobody. He did give up nine hits, but I wouldn't say he was hit particularly hard. Some of the hits were grounders on that hard, Arizona infield. Danks pounded the strike zone and consistently got ahead of the hitters. Floyd, on the other hand, was very frustrating to watch. He was constantly falling behind hitters. It seemed like two out of the first three pitches he threw to each hitter were balls. He appeared to me to be a guy afraid of the strike zone. He tries to nibble on the corners with his breaking stuff. He looks like a guy who can get into a world of trouble by getting wild and walking people while Danks has superior control.

I'm no professional scout or evaluator of baseball talent, but if I had to decide who got the 5th starter spot from only watching both pitchers today, I'd give it to Danks, hands down without a doubt.

California Sox
03-18-2007, 11:03 PM
I was supposed to be at that game but I got snowed in on the East Coast.:(:

I did watch on MLB TV and I thought Danks looked good. He tired and got rocked but look what happened to David Wells. Arizona's a tough place to pitch. There were a ton of hits on both sides aided by factors like a super hard infield, the wind blowing out, and a high sky that made it hard to read the ball off the bat. It's funny because I was against the McCarthy trade, but Danks made me feel better about it even giving up six runs. I liked that he got everything over, worked at a good pace, and jammed quite a few guys.

As for Floyd. His mechanics are still kind of all over the place and he was taking forever to throw the ball, but he had good stuff. I'd say, I'm in favor of Danks, but just barely.

As for Haeger, I'd send him to Charlotte and let the knuckler do its thing in the humid air and only bring him up after you can evaluate him. Not like he's had much of a spring results-wise.

ilsox7
03-18-2007, 11:05 PM
I shelled out the $15 bucks or so for MLB.tv this month. I wanted to check it out. If my investment sheds any light on this debate, I'll consider it money well spent! Here's my conclusion from watching both pitchers.

Danks gave up more runs, but he clearly looked like the better pitcher. Danks pitched 3.2 innings, striking out four and walking nobody. He did give up nine hits, but I wouldn't say he was hit particularly hard. Some of the hits were grounders on that hard, Arizona infield. Danks pounded the strike zone and consistently got ahead of the hitters. Floyd, on the other hand, was very frustrating to watch. He was constantly falling behind hitters. It seemed like two out of the first three pitches he threw to each hitter were balls. He appeared to me to be a guy afraid of the strike zone. He tries to nibble on the corners with his breaking stuff. He looks like a guy who can get into a world of trouble by getting wild and walking people while Danks has superior control.

I'm no professional scout or evaluator of baseball talent, but if I had to decide who got the 5th starter spot from only watching both pitchers today, I'd give it to Danks, hands down without a doubt.

I dunno. I only listened to it on the radio, but it sounded like Danks got absolutely hammered in his last inning. Overall, IIRC, there was a 400+ foot HR to center, a double off the CF batter's eye, and an opposite field shot for a HR. Those are the 3 that stick out in my mind. I will agree, though, that until Danks' 4th inning, he sounded very good. The radio team said it looked as if he just got tired. So maybe that's a good thing, but if it's what happened, he needs to get stretched out ASAP. But it also could be that as hitters saw him a second time, they were putting better swings on the ball.

Two more week and we'll know the answer to the 5th starter question!

EDIT: I will agree that it sounded like Floyd picked at the corners a lot. I tend to remember hearing of several hitters going deep into the count. But hopefully he can use the results today to give him confidence to attack the zone more.

TomBradley72
03-19-2007, 12:53 AM
I will agree, though, that until Danks' 4th inning, he sounded very good. The radio team said it looked as if he just got tired.

Typical in spring training as pitchers begin to go deeper into a game...not unusual to have a "blow up" inning when they are going an extra inning or two farther than they have before.

ilsox7
03-19-2007, 01:35 AM
Typical in spring training as pitchers begin to go deeper into a game...not unusual to have a "blow up" inning when they are going an extra inning or two farther than they have before.

Hopefully that's all it is. But it didn't sound like his pitch count was all that high headed into the 4th. It'd be real nice if he bounces back with 4 or 5 solid next time out. Worst case scenario for Danks is that this was a good spring and he can spend a year of seasoning in AAA. He has at least shown the organization that he is on the cusp of being a major leaguer if he isn't already one now. And he's still just a kid.

IndianWhiteSox
03-19-2007, 01:42 AM
What are you people talking about? Floyd or Danks will go 15-8 but Floyd will win the 5th spot.

SABRSox
03-19-2007, 01:49 AM
I like Danks a lot more long term. He's going to be a good one, the way he attacks the strike zone. I think Floyd wins the last spot though, and Danks goes to Charlotte.

goon
03-19-2007, 02:59 AM
After reading an article on whitesox.com, I found out that this was Floyd's first appearance as a non-starter. They should try and bring Floyd out of the pen again, see if he can repeat the results, then start him. Seems like the talent is there, just needs to build confidence.

Mohoney
03-19-2007, 04:21 AM
I'm glad Floyd had a good outing, he seems like the best "fit" for the fifth spot. Danks will have his day, but unless he is lights out and the other candidates struggle, it makes sense to send him to AAA for numerous reasons.

That's what makes rooting for one guy over the other so hard. They both bring pretty big positives.

Floyd is probably more seasoned with the 19 starts under his belt, and the shell shock of finally realizing that he's a major leaguer is, hopefully, pretty much dissipating by now, but Danks makes you look at the big advantage of having another lefty in our rotation to take pressure off of Buehrle, especially if Danks proves to be a guy that can strike people out.

I hope that these guys both tear **** up all the way until late March and make the decision as difficult as possible.

whitesoxfan1986
03-19-2007, 09:20 AM
If Coop can get Floyd to attack the strike zone, then I think he'll end up as a very good pitcher. If he does so, his K/9 will go up and his BB/9 will go down. His only obstacle is that he nips at the corners too much and falls behind hitters. Also good to hear is that Floyd's fastball is back in the mid 90s with good movement. I was hearing that he was popping it at 96 against Texas. He'd be pretty hard to hit if he could throw more strikes.

The Immigrant
03-19-2007, 09:38 AM
If Coop can get Floyd to attack the strike zone, then I think he'll end up as a very good pitcher. If he does so, his K/9 will go up and his BB/9 will go down. His only obstacle is that he nips at the corners too much and falls behind hitters. Also good to hear is that Floyd's fastball is back in the mid 90s with good movement. I was hearing that he was popping it at 96 against Texas. He'd be pretty hard to hit if he could throw more strikes.

Farmio was discussing Floyd's tendency to throw first pitch breaking balls (primarily sliders yesterday) and how his own coaches always stressed throwing first pitch fastballs, getting ahead in the count, and then going to the breaking stuff when you can afford to miss. Floyd was falling behind batters yesterday and was then forced to throw the fastball when everyone knows it is coming. Hopefully this is something Coop can remedy before the season starts.

RowanDye
03-19-2007, 09:42 AM
John Danks: 12.2 inn. 10 K/ 1 BB.
Gavin Floyd: 14 inn. 6 K/ 7 BB.
To me,throwing strikes is the key factor. Danks has the edge for the 5th spot IMO.

I know this is pretty irrevelant, but with some people crapping the bed over the state of our rotation I thought it would be interesting to compare these #'s to McCarthy's #'s so far this spring.


Would we be that much more confident in our team if Brandon was the 5th starter?

Brandon McCarthy: 7.88 ERA, 8 inn., 13 H, 4 HR, 7 K/ 4 BB


Although the homeruns are concern, I do think McCarthy will be decent this year. Having said that, I think we need to have some faith in the ability of one of our kids to step up and perform about as well as McCarthy would have. I think 175 inn. with double digits wins would be enough, and IMHO isn't a wild expectation.

Madscout
03-19-2007, 11:22 AM
That 7/1 BB says it all for me. I want another guy who attacks the strike zone and trusts his d to help him out. We preach pitching and defense, but defense only works if the pitcher is throwing stikes. This is why I hate watching Vasquez so much, too few strikes, too many times with a 1-0 2-0 count.

PaulDrake
03-19-2007, 11:57 AM
Mackowiak absolutely has a place on the team, a place on the bench. Just please not in CF.

jabrch
03-19-2007, 12:00 PM
I like Danks a lot more long term. He's going to be a good one, the way he attacks the strike zone. I think Floyd wins the last spot though, and Danks goes to Charlotte.


I agree with that. It wouldn't surprise me if Floyd struggles to see Danks starting later in the year, but I expect Floyd or Haeger to get the first and possibly second cracks at the job.