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Rockabilly
03-09-2007, 06:35 AM
A source indicated that Sox general manager Ken Williams has been in talks with Philadelphia GM -- and good friend -- Pat Gillick about a deal that would send middle-relief help, including left-hander Boone Logan, to the Phillies for former Sox outfielder Aaron Rowand.

Source Sun-Times and Jayson Stark

Stark mention it on XM radio that the trade could happen some time next week

RedHeadPaleHoser
03-09-2007, 06:41 AM
Link???

Jurr
03-09-2007, 07:02 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/289932,CST-SPT-sox09.article

Cuck the Fubs
03-09-2007, 07:07 AM
I feel sooo dirty for saying this............

I hope it's true, we could use him back.

itsnotrequired
03-09-2007, 07:09 AM
A source indicated that Sox general manager Ken Williams has been in talks with Philadelphia GM -- and good friend -- Pat Gillick about a deal that would send middle-relief help, including left-hander Boone Logan, to the Phillies for former Sox outfielder Aaron Rowand.

Source Sun-Times and Jayson Stark

Stark mention it on XM radio that the trade could happen some time next week

I wonder what "middle-relief help" they are referring to.

Jurr
03-09-2007, 07:11 AM
I feel sooo dirty for saying this............

I hope it's true, we could use him back.
Ditto. By the way, how weird would that whole trading carousel be with Philly?

Rowand, Gio +1(?) for Thome
Garcia for Gio and Floyd
Logan and something for Rowand

DarkHorse35
03-09-2007, 07:12 AM
Is it just me or do the Sox always get in a pattern of trading with one team for a while. A few years ago it seemed like the Pirates. Now it seems like the Phillies.

itsnotrequired
03-09-2007, 07:14 AM
Ditto. By the way, how weird would that whole trading carousel be with Philly?

Rowand, Gio +1(?) for Thome
Garcia for Gio and Floyd
Logan and something for Rowand

That is the key statement. Parting with Logan wouldn't be that big a deal but when names like Masset, etc. start getting thrown around, that is when i will start questioning the deal.

Jurr
03-09-2007, 07:18 AM
That is the key statement. Parting with Logan wouldn't be that big a deal but when names like Masset, etc. start getting thrown around, that is when i will start questioning the deal.
What would that matter? Kenny would just reaquire Royce Ring and deal him away to get the player back, packaged with newly re-acquired Robbie Alomar.

Cuck the Fubs
03-09-2007, 07:20 AM
I wonder how Aaron's quote plays in the Philly media?

Rowand, who was as popular as any Sox player the last decade, was even caught up in the excitement of returning to Chicago.
''I think there is reason to speculate that I could be traded because [the Phillies] have a guy in Shane Victorino that can fill my spot and comes a lot cheaper than myself,'' Rowand told the Sun-Times in December. ''And I know they wouldn't mind bringing in another pitcher to try and make the club better.''

JohnTucker0814
03-09-2007, 07:24 AM
How can you not like this deal if it does happen? Rowand is a fan favorite... a "grinder" and our CF situation does not look that promising.

TomBradley72
03-09-2007, 07:42 AM
KW has been talking about potentially moving Tracey to give him a chance to make someone's roster (ala Bajaneru/Borchard a year ago)...would a Tracey/Logan package be enough?

DumpJerry
03-09-2007, 07:42 AM
Is it just me or do the Sox always get in a pattern of trading with one team for a while. A few years ago it seemed like the Pirates. Now it seems like the Phillies.
Don't forget Seattle.

We have more quality outfielders than you can shake a stick at, why would we do this?

spawn
03-09-2007, 07:55 AM
Don't forget Seattle.

We have more quality outfielders than you can shake a stick at, why would we do this?
Exactly. That's why I won't believe it until it actually happens...it just doesn't make sense.

russ99
03-09-2007, 08:36 AM
KW has been talking about potentially moving Tracey to give him a chance to make someone's roster (ala Bajaneru/Borchard a year ago)...would a Tracey/Logan package be enough?

Probably not. I'd expect a prospect to go as well, but not one of our main guys like Fields, Sweeney, Owens, Broadway, Danks, Masset, Floyd, Gio, etc. The Phils would need enough in return and not just a salary dump.

Does anyone have a link to Anderson's spring numbers so far? I'd think this would be a move the Sox could make at the end of S.T. if they were convinced BA still was a question mark as a hitter and needed more AAA time.

itsnotrequired
03-09-2007, 08:40 AM
Does anyone have a link to Anderson's spring numbers so far? I'd think this would be a move the Sox could make at the end of S.T. if they were convinced BA still was a question mark as a hitter and needed more AAA time.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?c_id=cws&section1=1&section2=1&section3=1&statSet1=1&statSet2=null&statSet3=null&statType=1&timeFrame=1&timeSubFrame=23&baseballScope=null&prevPage1=1&readBoxes=true&subScope=teamCode&teamPosCode=cha&box4=XXXX435042chaO&compare.x=33&compare.y=5

russ99
03-09-2007, 08:42 AM
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/stats/sortable_player_stats.jsp?c_id=cws&section1=1&section2=1&section3=1&statSet1=1&statSet2=null&statSet3=null&statType=1&timeFrame=1&timeSubFrame=23&baseballScope=null&prevPage1=1&readBoxes=true&subScope=teamCode&teamPosCode=cha&box4=XXXX435042chaO&compare.x=33&compare.y=5

That's pretty ugly, but it's still early.

infohawk
03-09-2007, 08:47 AM
Ditto. By the way, how weird would that whole trading carousel be with Philly?

Rowand, Gio +1(?) for Thome
Garcia for Gio and Floyd
Logan and something for Rowand
Assuming a deal for Rowand went down, in the end, it would have been Freddy Garcia and lesser prospects for Thome, Gio, Floyd and Rowand? Am I getting this right?

salty99
03-09-2007, 08:47 AM
I would think someone like Sean Tracey would also be involved since he wants out anyway.

infohawk
03-09-2007, 08:49 AM
How can you not like this deal if it does happen? Rowand is a fan favorite... a "grinder" and our CF situation does not look that promising.
The thought also occurred to me that bringing back a fan favorite in Rowand might ease the sting of losing a guy like Buehrle.

dwalteroo
03-09-2007, 08:51 AM
Is it just me or do the Sox always get in a pattern of trading with one team for a while. A few years ago it seemed like the Pirates. Now it seems like the Phillies.

Bingo! It's like they get in a groove or something.

russ99
03-09-2007, 08:51 AM
Assuming a deal for Rowand went down, in the end, it would have been Freddy Garcia and lesser prospects for Thome, Gio, Floyd and Rowand? Am I getting this right?

Well, since Rowand & Gio started out here, it would really be Garcia and lesser prospects for Thome & Floyd, which is pretty fair.

soxfan13
03-09-2007, 08:55 AM
The thought also occurred to me that bringing back a fan favorite in Rowand might ease the sting of losing a guy like Buehrle.

Actually same article in the Sun times mentions supposedly Buehrle instructed his agent to make a 3-4 year proposal to the White Sox

voodoochile
03-09-2007, 08:58 AM
Assuming a deal for Rowand went down, in the end, it would have been Freddy Garcia and lesser prospects for Thome, Gio, Floyd and Rowand? Am I getting this right?

Well sort of. The Sox already had Gio and Rowand, so it would be Garcia for Floyd and Thome.

INSox56
03-09-2007, 09:03 AM
I loved Aaron, but if this is for anything more than Logan and Tracey I'm going to :puking:
The only good thing that could come out of that is to shut people up about trade rumors.

nlentz88
03-09-2007, 09:24 AM
Well sort of. The Sox already had Gio and Rowand, so it would be Garcia for Floyd and Thome.

Don't forget Daniel Haigwood!

CHIsoxNation
03-09-2007, 09:27 AM
I'm sorry, but am I one of the only ones that doesn't really care if this deal ever happens? Rowand is a good guy, did some great things for the Sox when he was here but I really don't think he is that much of an improvement over Anderson/Erstad in center. I'm pretty sure Aaron is having a pretty bad spring too.

IMO, I wouldn't even make a move for CF right now unless you could bring in an All Star type CF and I think Aaron is an average CF at best. Besides, I don't think Anderson and our CF situation was the reason we missed the playoffs last year. I think Kenny just gets bored after not making any moves for a few months and feels the need to "tinker" with things a bit.

voodoochile
03-09-2007, 09:36 AM
Don't forget Daniel Haigwood!

Good point, that makes it even better. Still, I don't care if Rowand ever wears a Sox uniform again and in fact if I got a vote in the matter, I would vote nay.

Iwritecode
03-09-2007, 09:47 AM
Actually same article in the Sun times mentions supposedly Buehrle instructed his agent to make a 3-4 year proposal to the White Sox

There have also been quotes in other articles that those reports are wrong.

soxtalker
03-09-2007, 09:50 AM
As the Suntimes article said, the interest in deals is picking up around the league, because teams are seeing where their surpluses and needs are.

Looking at it from a different perspective, KW is auditioning a lot of pitchers this spring. He wants to put most of those that don't make the team in AAA and AA. But there are several that he probably needs to move. Tracey and Logan are the ones that have been mentioned here; I'm sure that there are a few others.

soxfan13
03-09-2007, 09:53 AM
There have also been quotes in other articles that those reports are wrong.

Like I said, "supposedly"

balke
03-09-2007, 10:02 AM
I don't see this happening because as far as I know the Phillies don't have another CFer. As far as I know they don't have another outfielder.

soxfan13
03-09-2007, 10:05 AM
I don't see this happening because as far as I know the Phillies don't have another CFer. As far as I know they don't have another outfielder.

Actually Rowand himself says they have Shane Victorino ready to step in and play.

Mr.1Dog
03-09-2007, 10:07 AM
I'm just going to wait and see if it happens. It's very redundant to talk about the same trade scenarios over and over again. If it happens :bandance: . If not, and we stick with Brian :bandance: .

The Dude
03-09-2007, 10:10 AM
I would consider this if it was Logan/Tracey and Rogowski since they all are not needed and will most likely be traded. Rowand would be a better platoon guy than Mackowiak and is better with the glove. He can also play left in place of Pods. I don't think he'd be a starter but could be valuable to this team as a platoon man. BA is the starter until proven otherwise.

That being said, I could care less if he is back or not and will be fine if no move is made.

Chips & ChiSoxMike would have to stop using the rowand is gone, get over it image if this happened.
:tongue:

Gammons Peter
03-09-2007, 10:15 AM
Well sort of. The Sox already had Gio and Rowand, so it would be Garcia for Floyd and Thome.

and 7 mildo toward Thome's pay check

chisoxmike
03-09-2007, 10:33 AM
I would consider this if it was Logan/Tracey and Rogowski since they all are not needed and will most likely be traded. Rowand would be a better platoon guy than Mackowiak and is better with the glove. He can also play left in place of Pods. I don't think he'd be a starter but could be valuable to this team as a platoon man. BA is the starter until proven otherwise.

That being said, I could care less if he is back or not and will be fine if no move is made.

Chips & ChiSoxMike would have to stop using the rowand is gone, get over it image if this happened.
:tongue:

I mean, I don't think there is a dire need for Rowand, but if we could give up Logan/Tracey for him, I'd say why not. It can't hurt. Rowand doesn't have to play center either. He could play corner outfield spots too in case Pods is down longer than expected. Rowands bat is much better than Anderson's, but I'd take Anderson's glove over Rowand's any day of the week.

Frater Perdurabo
03-09-2007, 10:39 AM
Unless it's a deal that sends lesser pitching - Logan, Tracey, et. al. - to Philly, this deal makes no sense.

A lack of middle relief doomed the Sox last year; it would be dumb to deal any of the newly acquired hurlers.

Unless they plan to send Anderson to Charlotte, there's no room for Rowand in the OF picture, either.

esbrechtel
03-09-2007, 10:42 AM
I would rather we keep our young and relatively cheap CF and lock up Burls, Crede, Iguchi or Dye with the $ instead of brining Rowand back....BA is certianly capable of playing CF he just needs a little time to develop his hitting....

rocky biddle
03-09-2007, 10:48 AM
I was never a huge Rowand fan, but if they can get this done without losing anyone major- and virtually guarantee we won't see Mackowiak in center next year- I'm all for it.

russ99
03-09-2007, 10:51 AM
I would rather we keep our young and relatively cheap CF and lock up Burls, Crede, Iguchi or Dye with the $ instead of brining Rowand back....BA is certianly capable of playing CF he just needs a little time to develop his hitting....

I think Rowand's a free agent in the offseason too, so that doesn't mean anything in regards to our upcoming FAs.

It can't hurt to get another outfielder in the mix, especially if the Sox have concerns about Anderson's hitting in the majors and/or concerns about Pods' health and whether he can revert back to his '05 form.

If I were Kenny, I'd do the Logan, Tracey & Rogowski deal if Philly eats a little of Rowand's salary.

Hokiesox
03-09-2007, 11:19 AM
"What's the score?" should be renamed to "The latest Arow threads"

/yawn

gobears1987
03-09-2007, 11:22 AM
I feel sooo dirty for saying this............

I hope it's true, we could use him back.
I agree. I'm not someone who's obsessed with Rowand, but you have to admit he was fun to watch in CF. Whenever he played, you knew he gave 100%. He is the type of player who fits in very well on a team managed by Ozzie.

MisterB
03-09-2007, 11:22 AM
Rowand will bring more pie.

gobears1987
03-09-2007, 11:23 AM
I would rather we keep our young and relatively cheap CF and lock up Burls, Crede, Iguchi or Dye with the $ instead of brining Rowand back....BA is certianly capable of playing CF he just needs a little time to develop his hitting....Not to turn this into an attendance thread, but people are predicting 3+ million. If we draw that, then I don't think money is the issue here.

gobears1987
03-09-2007, 11:25 AM
How can you not like this deal if it does happen? Rowand is a fan favorite... a "grinder" and our CF situation does not look that promising.Because a few WSIers despise him because others obsess over him.

chisoxmike
03-09-2007, 11:25 AM
Not to turn this into an attendance thread, but people are predicting 3+ million. If we draw that, then I don't think money is the issue here.


Money is always a issue with the Sox. KW said in the paper the other day, I believe it was the Sun-Times, saying revenue is not up much over the past two years.

Iwritecode
03-09-2007, 11:34 AM
Money is always a issue with the Sox. KW said in the paper the other day, I believe it was the Sun-Times, saying revenue is not up much over the past two years.

IIRC, he just said that revenue hasn't increased as much as the payroll has.

oeo
03-09-2007, 11:36 AM
Doesn't make much sense, but if it's like Logan, Tracey, and another scrub, pull the trigger. I could see maybe Mackowiak leaving, as well, as he hasn't even been able to play the corners this spring.

SBSoxFan
03-09-2007, 11:55 AM
Unless it's a deal that sends lesser pitching - Logan, Tracey, et. al. - to Philly, this deal makes no sense.

A lack of middle relief doomed the Sox last year; it would be dumb to deal any of the newly acquired hurlers.

Unless they plan to send Anderson to Charlotte, there's no room for Rowand in the OF picture, either.

Yes, and also what happens with Erstad?

oeo
03-09-2007, 12:13 PM
Yes, and also what happens with Erstad?

I think the question is, what happens with Mackowiak? I'm starting to wonder what his role is on this team. He has been pretty bad in the corners of the outfield this spring, to the point where he's looking below average out there. And he didn't get much time in the infield last year, so I don't know for sure, but he's probably average to below average there, as well.

Erstad can play the outfield and 1B. Bring Rowand in, and we have a good b/u corner outfielder that can play pretty good center to complement Erstad. I think inserting Rowand in place of Mackowiak improves our bench.

Taliesinrk
03-09-2007, 12:15 PM
I would consider this if it was Logan/Tracey and Rogowski since they all are not needed and will most likely be traded. Rowand would be a better platoon guy than Mackowiak and is better with the glove. He can also play left in place of Pods. I don't think he'd be a starter but could be valuable to this team as a platoon man. BA is the starter until proven otherwise.

That being said, I could care less if he is back or not and will be fine if no move is made.

Chips & ChiSoxMike would have to stop using the rowand is gone, get over it image if this happened.
:tongue:

The only part (and it's a big one) that I agree with here is that the guys wouldn't be able to talk about rowand being gone anymore... that makes me laugh out loud because of how adamant some here have been about the situation, and for how long it's gone on.

However, I do not think that CF is BAs to lose. If Rowand were brought in, it wouldn't be to get only 300 ABs this upcoming season..

CLR01
03-09-2007, 12:19 PM
The thought also occurred to me that bringing back a fan favorite in Rowand might ease the sting of losing a guy like Buehrle.

An above average, front end, left handed starter for a medicore CFer. Pass. :puking:

oeo
03-09-2007, 12:23 PM
An above average, front end, left handed starter for a medicore CFer. Pass. :puking:

To be fair, he didn't say trade Buehrle for Rowand. He said it would 'ease the sting' if we were lose Buehrle over the offseason, which it wouldn't anyway.

WhiteSox5187
03-09-2007, 01:05 PM
Actually same article in the Sun times mentions supposedly Buehrle instructed his agent to make a 3-4 year proposal to the White Sox
Is that supposed to be in teal? Haven't we been over that too?? Look, I love Aaron and wish him the best, but I'm tired of hearing how he's coming back. He's become our version of Mark Prior. If he does come back, what does this do with BA? Does this mean he's become our backup CF? It seems rather pointless to me to reacquire Rowand just to have him sit on the bench.

gobears1987
03-09-2007, 01:11 PM
Is that supposed to be in teal? Haven't we been over that too?? Look, I love Aaron and wish him the best, but I'm tired of hearing how he's coming back. He's become our version of Mark Prior. If he does come back, what does this do with BA? Does this mean he's become our backup CF? It seems rather pointless to me to reacquire Rowand just to have him sit on the bench.If Rowand is brought in, then BA would be sitting on the bench or going to Charlotte.

Let's face it, BA's defensive advantage over Rowand isn't large enough to counter Rowand's bat. If we are comparing BA to Mack, then it's a different story, but Rowand is pretty good with the glove. Remember he should've gotten the GG in 2005.

Juice16
03-09-2007, 01:14 PM
If Rowand is brought in, then BA would be sitting on the bench or going to Charlotte.

Let's face it, BA's defensive advantage over Rowand isn't large enough to counter Rowand's bat. If we are comparing BA to Mack, then it's a different story, but Rowand is pretty good with the glove. Remember he should've gotten the GG in 2005.

I'm glad you brought this up. Everyone keeps saying how much better BA is defensively, but it is not by much.

gobears1987
03-09-2007, 01:16 PM
I'm glad you brought this up. Everyone keeps saying how much better BA is defensively, but it is not by much.Well someone had to. It was a joke that Hunter won the GG in 2005. There were no better CFs in baseball than Rowand that year. Remember that amazing series at Yankee Stadium. It was during that series I realized we were going all the way.

HomeFish
03-09-2007, 01:25 PM
The evolution of public opinion on WSI:

2003: Rowand takes bad routes
2004: Rowand is the greatest CF ever
2005: Rowand is the greatest CF ever
2006: Rowand took bad routes

2007: Rowand is the greatest CF ever ???

CLR01
03-09-2007, 01:35 PM
The evolution of public opinion on WSI:

2003: Rowand takes bad routes
2004: Rowand is the greatest CF ever
2005: Rowand is the greatest CF ever
2006: Rowand took bad routes

2007: Rowand is the greatest CF ever ???

2006 boasted Rowand as the greatest CF ever as well. I mean look what he did for Philly....



Why do we need to acquire Darin Erstad twice in two months?

chisoxmike
03-09-2007, 01:50 PM
The evolution of public opinion on WSI:

2003: Rowand takes bad routes
2004: Rowand is the greatest CF ever
2005: Rowand is the greatest CF ever
2006: Rowand took bad routes

2007: Rowand is the greatest CF ever ???

He still is a average CF that takes bad routes. Always has, always will.

That being said, if you can just give up Logan and Tracey to get him, you might as well pull the trigger. Anything more than that, I would leave him in Philly.

Chips
03-09-2007, 01:58 PM
He still is a average CF that takes bad routes. Always has, always will.

That being said, if you can just give up Logan and Tracey to get him, you might as well pull the trigger. Anything more than that, I would leave him in Philly.

You have deserted me. :whiner:

balke
03-09-2007, 01:59 PM
I agree. I'm not someone who's obsessed with Rowand, but you have to admit he was fun to watch in CF. Whenever he played, you knew he gave 100%. He is the type of player who fits in very well on a team managed by Ozzie.

Great CF, but he looks like he's trying, where BA is already there waiting for the ball. BA defensively is the best in baseball in a lot of people's opinions. Rowand is fun to watch and hits better for now though.

I liked Rowand so much because he was one of the few players I heard talking about liking the Sox and who was always ready and waiting to play. He takes his job seriously. I'm all about giving Brian his shot though. If that guy can hit, watch out.

I understand Victorino playing in Rowand's place, but who would the phils put out in Victorino's place? We'd have to send back in OFer probably.

Jerko
03-09-2007, 02:01 PM
The Sox can't get Rowand back. Javy would have to change his number and that might throw him off. We don't need anything that's gonna make him less comfortable.

gobears1987
03-09-2007, 02:01 PM
The Sox can't get Rowand back. Javy would have to change his number and that might throw him off. We don't need anything that's gonna make him less comfortable.Rowand has at least done stuff to prove his worth for this team. Javy has well, just sucked

chaotic8512
03-09-2007, 02:07 PM
I understand Victorino playing in Rowand's place, but who would the phils put out in Victorino's place? We'd have to send back in OFer probably.

Luis Terrero? :redneck

Personally, it would make me worry less considering Rowand is a known quantity offensively (average to slightly above average), while Brian still has something to prove offensively. I'd hate to give up on him after the progress he has made, though.

soxfan1983
03-09-2007, 02:17 PM
ooooo i hope i hope i hope this is gonna happen

SBSoxFan
03-09-2007, 02:19 PM
I think the question is, what happens with Mackowiak? I'm starting to wonder what his role is on this team. He has been pretty bad in the corners of the outfield this spring, to the point where he's looking below average out there. And he didn't get much time in the infield last year, so I don't know for sure, but he's probably average to below average there, as well.

Erstad can play the outfield and 1B. Bring Rowand in, and we have a good b/u corner outfielder that can play pretty good center to complement Erstad. I think inserting Rowand in place of Mackowiak improves our bench.

So, it would Logan + ? for Rowand. Then Mackowiak to Pittsburgh for Marte to replace the left-handed reliever?

SBSoxFan
03-09-2007, 02:23 PM
2006 boasted Rowand as the greatest CF ever as well. I mean look what he did for Philly....



Why do we need to acquire Darin Erstad twice in two months?

:kneeslap:

Besides, Rowand's one chain link fence away from being gone for season.

balke
03-09-2007, 02:26 PM
I think Rowand is better than Erstad at least if the Sox make this deal. If Erstad is our starting CFer, I'd probably rather just have Rowand.

chisoxmike
03-09-2007, 02:36 PM
You have deserted me. :whiner:

No, I still don't understand the man-love for a average player like Rowand. Do I want him to come back, no. But if you give up Boone ****ing Logan and Sean wuss Tracey, I'd say fine, I'd deal with it.

UserNameBlank
03-09-2007, 02:57 PM
If we don't give anything of real value up I don't mind the trade because it definitely makes the Sox better, but I don't like the idea of yet another CF cutting into Brian's playing time. Maybe we're seeing another Herbert Perry at 3B type situation again with Brian going back to AAA? If this happens I certainly hope the Sox let Brian become the everyday starter in Triple A because with L/R Erstad/Rowand in CF there is no reason to have Brian sitting around on his ass.

I do find it hard to believe that the Sox couldn't have thrown a Sean Tracey/Rogo/Pedro Lopez type player into the Garcia deal and picked up Rowand there.

Edit: I hope the Sox can get this done with Caros Vasquez or Corwin Malone or something as the lefty instead of Boone with Tracey and maybe another Triple A roster filler thrown in. I'm not a Logan fan or anything but he is valuable insurance for Andy Sisco this year if Andy struggles again like he did last year. If Sisco were to struggle, I'd rather see him sent down to Triple A to get stretched out as a starter with Boone coming up.

Thome25
03-09-2007, 03:10 PM
Those on here that hate Rowand have man-love for Brian Anderson.

Those that want Rowand back hate Brian Anderson.

I've seen a posts in this thread saying that those that have man-love for Rowand like a mediocre outfielder. That implies that Rowand has never shown us anything.

Well how could so many people on here have man-love for BA when he hasn't show us **** so far??

Count me as one of the ones that hates BA. I hope this proposed deal goes down.

spawn
03-09-2007, 03:20 PM
Those on here that hate Rowand have man-love for Brian Anderson.

Those that want Rowand back hate Brian Anderson.

I've seen a posts in this thread saying that those that have man-love for Rowand like a mediocre outfielder. That implies that Rowand has never shown us anything.

Well how could so many people on here have man-love for BA when he hasn't show us **** so far??

Count me as one of the ones that hates BA. I hope this proposed deal goes down.
I don't hate either player. I know Rowand helped us win a WS...but people are acting like he's the greatest CF since Willie Mays. If Rowand was such a great CF, then why would the Phillies even want to trade him? Sure, they need pitching help. But I don't see them trying to trade Ryan Howard away. Rowand is an average CF defensively, and is a serviceable hitter. Anderson is an above average CF IMHO and needs to work on his hitting. Rowand isn't that much of an upgrade, if one at all. I appreciate what he did for us while he was here...but really, we don't need him.

chisoxmike
03-09-2007, 03:27 PM
Those on here that hate Rowand have man-love for Brian Anderson.

Those that want Rowand back hate Brian Anderson.

I've seen a posts in this thread saying that those that have man-love for Rowand like a mediocre outfielder. That implies that Rowand has never shown us anything.

Well how could so many people on here have man-love for BA when he hasn't show us **** so far??

Count me as one of the ones that hates BA. I hope this proposed deal goes down.

No, Rowand has shown us what he can do. And that's nothing amazing like some people claim he is. Anderson blows Rowand away in CF. I would rather have Anderson's glove. Some people seem to forget that Rowand couldn't hit for **** until the 2004 season - wait for BA to come around with the bat, it will happen, at the very least, Anderson should be able to raise his batting average this season.

Juice16
03-09-2007, 03:29 PM
I don't hate either player. I know Rowand helped us win a WS...but people are acting like he's the greatest CF since Willie Mays.If Rowand was such a great CF, then why would the Phillies even want to trade him. Sure, they need pitching help. But I don't see them trying to trade Ryan Howard away. Rownad is an average CF defensively, and is a serviceable hitter. Anderson is an above average CF IMHO and needs to work on his hitting. Rowand isn't that much of an upgrade, if one at all. I appreciate what he did for us while he was here...but really, we don't need him.

I have never seen anyone put him on the level of Willie Mays. A lot of Sox fans love Aaron because he was a good CF, a big part of the WS team and a great person. As much as I want BA to succeed, it doesn't look good right now. I think we have plenty of room for Aaron as a starter or a reserve. I'd much rather have time split between Aaron, BA, Pods and Erstad than BA, Pablo and Mack like last year.

balke
03-09-2007, 03:30 PM
No, Rowand has shown us what he can do. And that's nothing amazing like some people claim he is. Anderson blows Rowand away in CF. I would rather have Anderson's glove. Some people seem to forget that Rowand couldn't hit for **** until the 2004 season - wait for BA to come around with the bat, it will happen, at the very least, Anderson should be able to raise his batting average this season.

I think Anderson is very capable of hitting just like Rowand and Erstad, with the best CFer D in the league.

balke
03-09-2007, 03:31 PM
I have never seen anyone put him on the level of Willie Mays. A lot of Sox fans love Aaron because he was a good CF, a big part of the WS team and a great person. As much as I want BA to succeed, it doesn't look good right now. I think we have plenty of room for Aaron as a starter or a reserve. I'd much rather have time split between Aaron, BA, Pods and Erstad than BA, Pablo and Mack like last year.

I don't know if Rowand would like splitting time with anyone very much. He worked pretty hard for an everyday CFer job.

Frater Perdurabo
03-09-2007, 03:37 PM
I don't hate or adore either player.

Rowand was the CF for the World Champs. For that reasons I'll always respect and like him as a player and a human being. He seems like a great guy who loves the Sox, evidenced when he was crestfallen after being traded. Rowand also is a known quantity: OK speed, fantastic hustle and heart, gives up his body to make a play, decent arm, OK fielding, doesn't walk much, GIDPs to the 3B or SS a lot, good for a .270 AVG, some power. He's reached his peak.

Anderson has more upside. He's a far better fielder and already among the best in the majors. We've not seen him realize his potential at the plate, though. He might never reach it. Or maybe he becomes another Mike Cameron. OK speed, walks more than Rowand, and even with his low average last year he hit a good number of doubles. IMHO it's worth giving him time to develop, though. Being patient with Joe Crede paid off.

If the Sox plan to let Anderson play a full season at Charlotte in the hopes of him winning the full-time job in 2008, I can live with a Rowand/Erstad CF platoon in 2007 (with both starting until Pods returns). Just no more "Adventures of Mackowiak" in center, please.

My personal preference, though, would be for Anderson to come on strong and win the job outright once and for all.

chisoxmike
03-09-2007, 03:39 PM
Just no more "Adventures of Mackowiak" in center, please.



For some reason, I just have a feeling we will see Mackowiak in center this season.

Frater Perdurabo
03-09-2007, 03:41 PM
For some reason, I just have a feeling we will see Mackowiak in center this season.

:chunks

Thome25
03-09-2007, 03:42 PM
No, Rowand has shown us what he can do. And that's nothing amazing like some people claim he is. Anderson blows Rowand away in CF. I would rather have Anderson's glove. Some people seem to forget that Rowand couldn't hit for **** until the 2004 season - wait for BA to come around with the bat, it will happen, at the very least, Anderson should be able to raise his batting average this season.

I'm not saying that Rowand is Willie Mays or even Lance Johnson for that matter. He's not even the greatest CF in White Sox history. But, he's a helluva nice player.

When a guy plays hard with reckless abandon like he does, he deserves credit and deserves a spot on the White Sox any day of the week.

With today's spoiled, pampered, cryababy athletes out there how many players nowadays do you know that would run into a wall for his team? I'll answer that for you: ONE.....Aaron Rowand. That's why he's earned the respect of so many Sox fans.

For people to go out of their way to bash those that like Rowand is just as bad as claiming that Rowand is Willie Mays. Both sides of the argument need to give it a rest and stick a sock in it.

I would definitely welcome Rowand back. He is one of my favorite former White Sox players along with Robin Ventura and Harold Baines.

With that said, BA better work on his hitting or he can go sell used cars or deliver pizzas or something. You think the Sox can get a rule change so the pitcher can bat in his place? Because at this point the pitchers could hit better.

gobears1987
03-09-2007, 03:43 PM
I don't know if Rowand would like splitting time with anyone very much. He worked pretty hard for an everyday CFer job.
Rowand probably wouldn't mind splitting some of his playing time. Rowand is not the ME first type of player. I personally think he's better used as a starter, but he wouldn't make a big deal about splitting time.

I also think he would give the Sox a discount if we wanted to re-sign him.

gobears1987
03-09-2007, 03:44 PM
For some reason, I just have a feeling we will see Mackowiak in center this season.Maybe Mack can be a throw in for the deal.

Thome25
03-09-2007, 03:52 PM
The Sox can make a deal for Rowand and dump Mackowiak any day of the week if you ask me.

UserNameBlank
03-09-2007, 04:03 PM
The Sox can make a deal for Rowand and dump Mackowiak any day of the week if you ask me.

So Erstad becomes our lefty pinch hitter? No thanks. If Rowand comes here then Anderson is the odd man out, not Mack.

FarWestChicago
03-09-2007, 04:20 PM
With that said, BA better work on his hitting or he can go sell used cars or deliver pizzas or something. You think the Sox can get a rule change so the pitcher can bat in his place? Because at this point the pitchers could hit better.You do realize this statement makes you look like a complete dumbass and lose all credibility, don't you?

Dan Mega
03-09-2007, 04:28 PM
With today's spoiled, pampered, cryababy athletes out there how many players nowadays do you know that would run into a wall for his team? I'll answer that for you: ONE.....Aaron Rowand. That's why he's earned the respect of so many Sox fans.

:o:

Uribe dove into the stands going for a foul. Crede slid into a rolled up tarp chasing a foul. Iguchi did a face plant to get a guy out a first. Dye, BA, and Pods have all hit the wall and dove recklessly just to try and make the big out. Paulie has almost fallen into the opposing players' dugout while chasing fouls on numerous occasions. AJ didn't run into a wall but he ran into another catcher, hard, to get the extra run they needed. Do you really think that Rowand is the only guy in the majors that plays hard?!

EMachine10
03-09-2007, 04:28 PM
:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: I'm afraid I don't understand why we want rowand back. yes, I am one of those WSIers who get mad at all the rowand man-love, but I am leaving that aspect out of this. Why would we have signed Erstad? What are we going to do with the young OF's we have (Anderson, Sweeney, Owens, Fields -i know not a CF but he palys into the outfield outlook). This makes no sense. The major goal of this offseason was to build up our bullpen, which we did. Now we want to give away bullpen arms? This is just mind-boggling. I'm tellin ya, people in this city just find ways to get Rowand back in a Sox uniform no matter what.

EMachine10
03-09-2007, 04:29 PM
and by the way, Anderson doesn't run into walls because he doesn't have to - he can make those plays look easy.

102605
03-09-2007, 04:43 PM
Is this thread for real?

*****

Rockabilly
03-09-2007, 05:00 PM
Buster Olney said it might be Rowand to the Sox for Matt Thornton

Mr.1Dog
03-09-2007, 05:02 PM
Buster Olney said it might be Rowand to the Sox for Matt Thornton

Philly can keep him. The Sox should not give up Thornton.

thomas35forever
03-09-2007, 05:03 PM
For some reason, I just have a feeling we will see Mackowiak in center this season.
God, please no.

rowand33
03-09-2007, 05:05 PM
Well, if we're trying to trade for Rowand you've gotta figure it's because the organization is really low on Brian Anderson.

If all we have to trade is logan, tracey, and a lesser prospect, I'm good with a Rowand trade.

Rowand's not the best CF out there, but he's a quality player that plays good defense and will knock in about 70 RBI and end up with somewhere around 15-20 homers and steals and an acceptable average. And if Ozzie really wants to move Iguchi into a lower spot in the order, Rowand has played his best hitting 2nd in the lineup. .346 average. .391 OBP, .514 SLG in 387 ABs.

But back to the Anderson part of this...

if we made this trade, we're not sending him back to AAA. We're rolling with Pods, Dye, Rowand, and Erstad as our 4 OFs and trading Anderson to somebody looking for a project. I know that the Marlins have expressed interest. I dunno what we'd want in return exactly, and Anderson's stock won't be as high as it was a year ago, but I still think we could get something decent for him.

So, if what we're really trading some combination of crappy Boone Logan (remember September?), Tracey (who has no future with our organization), or Aardsma (I dunno about this guy. plus, to go on a tangent, I don't like the idea of having a bullpen of nothing but power pitchers. major league hitters adjust to a high 90s fastball if they see one for 3 straight innings. you want a bullpen that gives guys different looks. The only things we have to break it up now are Thornton throwing heat from the left and maybe Haeger if he ends up in the pen).... well, then I support trading for Aaron Rowand.

And if we spin Anderson somewhere, maybe we'll add more pitching depth to the organization.

But I'm against the trade if there's a guy like Masset, MacDougal, or anybody that will be an asset to the organization in 2007 or the future.

Oh, and for the record, I'm a fan of Anderson.

ShoelessJoeS
03-09-2007, 05:06 PM
Buster Olney said it might be Rowand to the Sox for Matt ThorntonI trust KW has more sense than that.

UserNameBlank
03-09-2007, 05:08 PM
Buster Olney said it might be Rowand to the Sox for Matt Thornton
LMAO. Buster Olney is a moron.

Rockabilly
03-09-2007, 05:09 PM
I would love to see Rowand come back to the Sox

Opening day line up might look like this

Erstad LF
Iguchi 2B
Thome DH
Konerko 1B
Dye RF
AJ C
Crede 3B
Rowand CF
Uribe SS

which would be a pretty solid lineup and a great roster when Pods comes back.

I think the Sox will have 98 wins this year

bigfoot
03-09-2007, 05:15 PM
Don't forget Seattle.

We have more quality outfielders than you can shake a stick at, why would we do this?

Sometime in July......ICHIRO!!!!!!? Now that's a lead-off/CF!!!!!

For a couple of prospects and a salary dump as rumored?

Why would one wish for ARowand and his wandering in the OF?

EMachine10
03-09-2007, 05:33 PM
Rowand for Thornton, at this moment in time, would be one of the worst trades i've ever heard. period.

EMachine10
03-09-2007, 05:34 PM
Olney also only says that Gillick has a knack for picking up players he once had in the past. He said nothing about the trade actually being Thornton for Rowand.

KyWhiSoxFan
03-09-2007, 05:47 PM
Olney also only says that Gillick has a knack for picking up players he once had in the past. He said nothing about the trade actually being Thornton for Rowand.

I guess he wants Thome.

MarySwiss
03-09-2007, 06:02 PM
Rowand for Thornton, at this moment in time, would be one of the worst trades i've ever heard. period.

Yep. Much as I liked Rowand, Thornton is a stud in the bullpen.

MarySwiss
03-09-2007, 06:09 PM
The Sox can make a deal for Rowand and dump Mackowiak any day of the week if you ask me.

Could not disagree more. Rob is just the kind of guy you want on the bench--a gamer, plays a bunch of positions, and can hit for power. It's not his fault Ozzie kept putting him out in CF last year. And again, much as I will always love Aaron for being a key part of the 2005 WS champs, when push comes to shove, as a defensive CF he was pretty average.

Jjav829
03-09-2007, 06:39 PM
Buster Olney said it might be Rowand to the Sox for Matt Thornton

I don't know what you were reading, but this is what Olney said in his blog:

The White Sox are in the midst of trade talks with the Phillies (http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/289932,CST-SPT-sox09.article) to reacquire Aaron Rowand, writes Joe Cowley. Heard from a couple of scouts that Rowand's name is all over the place in trade discussions.

Keep in mind this pure speculation: Phillies GM Pat Gillick has a history of reacquiring players he's had in the past -- and the White Sox have a former Mariner, Matt Thornton, pitching in middle relief.

Cuck the Fubs
03-09-2007, 07:12 PM
Buster Olney said it might be Rowand to the Sox for Matt Thornton


I am sure I'll take a beating for saying this, but I'd really like to see Aaron back with us.

However, not at the cost of Matt Thorton...EVER.

If it's for Tracy or Logan types, let's get it done!

cws05champ
03-09-2007, 07:45 PM
What if the deal were:

Mackowiack, Tracey, Logan for Rowand and Fabio Castro

I do that in a second!

HotelWhiteSox
03-09-2007, 08:28 PM
Buster Olney said it might be Rowand to the Sox for Matt Thornton

That is one of the dumbest trades I've ever heard. I'm no Rowand hater, but Kenny would have to be a moron to do something like that.

I wouldn't mind him back if not giving up a lot, but he basically equals Anderson to me. Actually, I think Anderson would probably be better at this point if he had a chance to play everyday last year, but Rowand has Ozzie on his good side, and of course, the "chemistry"

FedEx227
03-09-2007, 08:31 PM
Are we going to get this every season for the next 10 years? Seriously? I would love to hear from Kenny if he's ever even mentioned Rowand in a trade-discussion.

cwsfannick
03-09-2007, 08:36 PM
Is Rowand in his walk year? If so, then I would think KW would make any trade contingent on Rowand signing an extension.

Brian26
03-09-2007, 08:44 PM
Not sure what to think about this trade. One thing is for certain, though. If the Sox reaquire Rowand, Brian Anderson might as well pack his bags. The way Ozzie manages and uses his bench, BA will be lucky to get 15 starts in center. Between Erstad, Ozuna, Mackowiak, Pods, Rowand and Anderson, it could get ugly.

gobears1987
03-09-2007, 08:48 PM
I don't think the Sox are high on BA at all. Remember he is in Ozzie's doghouse.

FedEx227
03-09-2007, 08:50 PM
Unless your 30 years old and married you're in Ozzie's doghouse.

getonbckthr
03-09-2007, 08:53 PM
If we trade for Rowand, would Anderson, Masset and Gio get us say Dontrell Willis? What else would we need to give?

santo=dorf
03-09-2007, 09:09 PM
I can't believe how under appreciated Mack is on WSI. KW trades for the Sox fan because we needed an upgrade over Timo Perez and Mack could occasional back up Crede at third, yet because Anderson was terrible Ozzie forced Mack into CF. He was terrible defensively in CF, but he was a good hitter. He had a .390 OBP against righties last year. I would've loved that as a platoon partner in LF for this season instead of bringing back Podsednik.

Yet because Anderson sucked, and Ozzie Guillen mishandled the CF position it's Mack fault. GMAB. :rolleyes:

salty99
03-09-2007, 09:10 PM
No way Thornton for Rowand..that would be awful.

Brian26
03-09-2007, 09:28 PM
I can't believe how under appreciated Mack is on WSI.

Who is under-appreciating Mack?

santo=dorf
03-09-2007, 09:33 PM
Who is under-appreciating Mack?
Thome25 along with anybody else who is willing to trade Mack for Rowand.

It's been going on for a long time. IT WASN'T HIS FAULT HE WAS IN CF LAST YEAR!!!!!:angry:

TomBradley72
03-09-2007, 10:39 PM
Mack + Logan/Tracey makes sense to me. We have Erstad for a LH back up at LF/CF/RF and 1B...and Rowand gives us another RH bat against lefties.

DickAllen72
03-09-2007, 10:41 PM
Rowand is a good guy, did some great things for the Sox when he was here but I really don't think he is that much of an improvement over Anderson/Erstad in center.

But he would be a big improvement over the left-handed hitting Mackowiak (better fielder and Sox could use a right-handed outfielder), who then could be traded for something else.

Tragg
03-09-2007, 11:09 PM
I think acquiring Rowand would be silly because he's not a particularly good ball player - if it's for a journeyman reliever, fine; but for any real young talent, forget it. Rob M hit a lot better last year than Rowand ever did.
Last year Guillen trots Rob M out there, costing this team games; now rumor has it that Williams is trying to bring Rowand back. Anderson may get the McCarthy treatment.
Rob M's bat last year was excellent; but he could have been used to spell Podsednik and not killed us as much defensively.

Chisox003
03-09-2007, 11:34 PM
I think acquiring Rowand would be silly because he's not a particularly good ball player - if it's for a journeyman reliever, fine; but for any real young talent, forget it. Rob M hit a lot better last year than Rowand ever did.
Last year Guillen trots Rob M out there, costing this team games; now rumor has it that Williams is trying to bring Rowand back. Anderson may get the McCarthy treatment.
Rob M's bat last year was excellent; but he could have been used to spell Podsednik and not killed us as much defensively.
The main thing Rowand would bring to the White Sox is consistency in center field. Mackowiak hit fine last year, Anderson was great with the glove. But not having a CF that Ozzie felt he could run out there everyday like 2005 killed the Sox last year.

I wouldn't mind seeing Rowand back, but it all depends what it takes to get him. That ? it takes with Logan could be the breaking point.

FarWestChicago
03-10-2007, 07:49 AM
But not having a CF that Ozzie felt he could run out there everyday like 2005 killed the Sox last year.The last time I checked, lousy pitching killed the Sox last year. Rowand is not Mays or Mantle and would not have been able to overcome the mound deficiencies of last year.

FedEx227
03-10-2007, 07:55 AM
The last time I checked, lousy pitching killed the Sox last year. Rowand is not Mays or Mantle and would not have been able to overcome the mound deficiencies of last year.

Yeah apparently some people didn't notice the fact that our starting rotation's ERA jumped up almost 1 run per game, and our bullpen's ERA absolutely exploded as two of our best relievers in 05 became dreadful in 06.

But yeah, Rowand would've saved that.

FarWestChicago
03-10-2007, 07:56 AM
But yeah, Rowand would've saved that.That dude is something else. :redneck

Jurr
03-10-2007, 08:08 AM
The only thing I see in Rowand coming back is a boost in confidence and a little swagger. He had a great season in 2005, especially with runners in scoring position. He ran the bases hard, caught EVERYTHING around him, and was a big clubhouse guy.

The '05 Sox were very solid up the middle with Uribe, Iguchi, Pierzynski, and Rowand. If they could get him back without totally screwing up their pitching depth, I feel that the whole team would get a boost. There's a guy that absolutely loves the White Sox, loves the players here, and sets a great example for the other players as far as work ethic and a team-first mentality.

Rowand is no messiah, and we all know that. He won't fix pitching problems, though he can make the difference in a handful of games (the '05 series in Yankee stadium stands out as well as the Dodgers comebacks, Padres, etc.).
His energy and clubhouse presence would make a difference. Having a guy always at the top step, cheering on his teammates, running around the field making plays, and showing his enthusiasm would really help tie this thing together.

soxrme
03-10-2007, 08:13 AM
KW has been talking about potentially moving Tracey to give him a chance to make someone's roster (ala Bajaneru/Borchard a year ago)...would a Tracey/Logan package be enough?
that would be a great trade for us

DickAllen72
03-10-2007, 08:24 AM
Yeah apparently some people didn't notice the fact that our starting rotation's ERA jumped up almost 1 run per game, and our bullpen's ERA absolutely exploded as two of our best relievers in 05 became dreadful in 06.

But yeah, Rowand would've saved that.

Obviously true about the pitching last year as the biggest reason the Sox didn't repeat.

But having Rowand in CF every day (assuming he stayed healthy, of course) instead of the Anderson/Mackowiak fiasco definitely would have improved the Sox and most likely would have turned a few defeats into victories. Enough to put the Sox back in the playoffs? No one can say for sure.

RedHeadPaleHoser
03-10-2007, 08:35 AM
Obviously true about the pitching last year as the biggest reason the Sox didn't repeat.

But having Rowand in CF every day (assuming he stayed healthy, of course) instead of the Anderson/Mackowiak fiasco definitely would have improved the Sox and most likely would have turned a few defeats into victories. Enough to put the Sox back in the playoffs? No one can say for sure.

It's almost a vicious circle.

Would Rowand's glove offset his lack of bat?

There were alot of things that went wrong last year, from pitching, to timely hitting, to defense....to say Rowand would have swung W's instead of L's is a huge leap, IMO. Catching a few timely fly balls helps; going 0-4 or batting .230 in September hurts equally. No way to know for sure, but I don't think trading back for him improves us at all.

oeo
03-10-2007, 08:51 AM
It's almost a vicious circle.

Would Rowand's glove offset his lack of bat?

I don't think Rowand would come here as a starter, but still. Are you kidding me? That 'lack of bat' hit almost 40 points higher than our centerfielder last year. I love Brian, but I only see him hitting about .250-.260 this year.

There were alot of things that went wrong last year, from pitching, to timely hitting, to defense....to say Rowand would have swung W's instead of L's is a huge leap, IMO. Catching a few timely fly balls helps; going 0-4 or batting .230 in September hurts equally. No way to know for sure, but I don't think trading back for him improves us at all.Rob Mackowiak doesn't have a role on this team. He can't play the outfield or the infield real well. Rowand does improve the team because he gives us a guy off the bench that can actually play the outfield, to go with Erstad.

dickallen15
03-10-2007, 09:02 AM
I don't think Rowand would come here as a starter, but still. Are you kidding me? That 'lack of bat' hit almost 40 points higher than our centerfielder last year. I love Brian, but I only see him hitting about .250-.260 this year.

Rob Mackowiak doesn't have a role on this team. He can't play the outfield or the infield real well. Rowand does improve the team because he gives us a guy off the bench that can actually play the outfield, to go with Erstad.
The White Sox played pretty well the first half of the season. The second half they were below .500. Oddly, the second half of the season both Anderson and Rowand batting .257 with about the same amount of power. Rowand wouldn't have made a difference in 2006 and he won't in 2007, in fact, I think given the chance to play, Anderson will be a better player in 2007. He's better defensively, he just doesn't have to crash into walls to get the ball. His arm is also far less erratic.

TomBradley72
03-10-2007, 10:55 AM
As long as we don't give up "Thornton" level talent...I like this move....I assume if it happens, he'll also sign a multi-year deal.

For 2007:

Adds another RH hitting OF to balance Pods/Erstad/Machowiak
Adds intensity to the clubhouseFor 2008:

Additional OF to offset potentially losing Dye and/or Podsednik
Allows for some patience in development of Sweeney and Anderson

champagne030
03-10-2007, 11:19 AM
The White Sox played pretty well the first half of the season. The second half they were below .500. Oddly, the second half of the season both Anderson and Rowand batting .257 with about the same amount of power. Rowand wouldn't have made a difference in 2006 and he won't in 2007, in fact, I think given the chance to play, Anderson will be a better player in 2007. He's better defensively, he just doesn't have to crash into walls to get the ball. His arm is also far less erratic.

I agree, but will that happen? Ozzie seems to have personal issues with BA that he cannot get past. If BA is buried on the bench or in Charlotte, I'd rather see Rowand in LF/CF than Mack or expecting Erstad to play 150+ games.

Grzegorz
03-10-2007, 11:31 AM
Rob Mackowiak doesn't have a role on this team.

I beg to differ; Rob M has a huge role on this team. Imagine if he was used for his intended purpose of spelling Crede at third base. Does Crede fade at the end if rested properly?

As for Rowand's glove offsetting his bat, that doesn't give him the edge over Anderson in my thinking.

Anderson's glove is superior to Rowand's; BA has the higher fielding percentage and range factors, and is better suited (physical tools) for center field than Rowand.

Given the same amount of at bats and assuming they'd both find themselves in the same part of the lineup, I feel comfortable saying that Anderson would be the better run producer. He'd probably hit as high or a tick higher in average.

tick53
03-10-2007, 11:35 AM
I'm listening to "White Sox Weekly" on the Score and it's been a big topic of conversation. Bring him back Sox, make the deal:smile:

Grzegorz
03-10-2007, 11:48 AM
'White Sox Weekly' is hitting this topic hard. I have to say that when I heard Thornton's name in this potential deal for Rowand I almost choked.

WhiteSox5187
03-10-2007, 12:03 PM
'White Sox Weekly' is hitting this topic hard. I have to say that when I heard Thornton's name in this potential deal for Rowand I almost choked.
I'm not giving up Thornton. If they want a guy like Boone Logan or Mackowiak, be my guest.

JermaineDye05
03-10-2007, 12:14 PM
I'm not giving up Thornton. If they want a guy like Boone Logan or Mackowiak, be my guest.

I really don't want to see Mackowiak go, he's too valuable for our bench. Logan could go, as for more middle relief help I don't know who. I don't see Thornton going anywhere.

HomeFish
03-10-2007, 12:20 PM
I don't understand the Mackowiak hate. He's one of our best bats off the bench. Don't hate him because he is a non-CF'er who can't play CF when he is irresponsibly put out there.

DickAllen72
03-10-2007, 12:43 PM
I don't understand the Mackowiak hate. He's one of our best bats off the bench. Don't hate him because he is a non-CF'er who can't play CF when he is irresponsibly put out there.

I like Mackowiak and always have been a Rob Mackowiak fan. But he does not fit real well on this team, especially with Ozzie as manager. Guillen misused him last year, and his only real value this year is as a LH pinch hitter. While useful, the Sox are more in the need of a RH hitting outfielder who can field well and play CF.

If the Sox can swing a Tracey/Logan type trade for Rowand (I'd rather it be Tracey), then they can probably get a pretty good prospect in return for Mackowiak. Or, they can always trade Anderson...

CLR01
03-10-2007, 01:18 PM
Yeah apparently some people didn't notice the fact that our starting rotation's ERA jumped up almost 1 run per game, and our bullpen's ERA absolutely exploded as two of our best relievers in 05 became dreadful in 06.

But yeah, Rowand would've saved that.

Look how he singlehandedly turned around the Phillies organization. He would have been huge for the Sox. Look at it this way White Sox with Rowand WS champs, White Sox without Rowand third place losers. I'd trade the entire starting staff and the back end of the bullpen to get him back on the south side.


I love Brian, but I only see him hitting about .250-.260 this year.

Which would be right there with Rowand impressive .262 average last year.

Jjav829
03-10-2007, 01:30 PM
I don't think Rowand would come here as a starter, but still. Are you kidding me? That 'lack of bat' hit almost 40 points higher than our centerfielder last year. I love Brian, but I only see him hitting about .250-.260 this year.

Rob Mackowiak doesn't have a role on this team. He can't play the outfield or the infield real well. Rowand does improve the team because he gives us a guy off the bench that can actually play the outfield, to go with Erstad.

I don't think Kenny would trade for Rowand unless he was going to be the starting centerfielder. And for all the talk about people here loving Aaron Rowand, there aren't two bigger fans of Aaron Rowand than Kenny Williams and Ozzie Guillen. Do you remember their reactions when he was traded? I can't see Ozzie starting Anderson over Rowand.

And I think any potential Rowand trade would likely end the Brian Anderson era.

I'm not sure this deal will actually happen. I wouldn't be surprised if these trade talks are simply Kenny trying to take advantage of the Phillies lack of relievers. But like I've said since Rowand left, it should surprise no one if Rowand is back with the Sox in the near future, so you never know...

WhiteSox5187
03-10-2007, 01:38 PM
I like Mackowiak and always have been a Rob Mackowiak fan. But he does not fit real well on this team, especially with Ozzie as manager. Guillen misused him last year, and his only real value this year is as a LH pinch hitter. While useful, the Sox are more in the need of a RH hitting outfielder who can field well and play CF.

If the Sox can swing a Tracey/Logan type trade for Rowand (I'd rather it be Tracey), then they can probably get a pretty good prospect in return for Mackowiak. Or, they can always trade Anderson...
I like Mackowiak too, but you perfectly stated my point, if we get Rowand there just isn't a space for him on this team.

oeo
03-10-2007, 02:55 PM
I don't understand the Mackowiak hate. He's one of our best bats off the bench. Don't hate him because he is a non-CF'er who can't play CF when he is irresponsibly put out there.

It's not hate, it's that he can't play defense...anywhere. He's been AWFUL this spring, even in the corners.

I'm surprised that you're actually defending a guy, HomeFish. There's something new.

JermaineDye05
03-10-2007, 03:02 PM
It's not hate, it's that he can't play defense...anywhere. He's been AWFUL this spring, even in the corners.

I'm surprised that you're actually defending a guy, HomeFish. There's something new.

Rob may be bad defensively in the OF, but he's a pretty good pinch hitter. I believe he had a pinch hit homer against the A's last year to tie the game, which we ended up winning on a bunt single by Pablo in the 10th.

Chisox003
03-10-2007, 03:05 PM
The last time I checked, lousy pitching killed the Sox last year. Rowand is not Mays or Mantle and would not have been able to overcome the mound deficiencies of last year.
I understand that, and the pitching was unquestionably the biggest reason the Sox found themselves sitting at home in October.

But not having a consistent, everyday centerfielder to anchor the outfield is never a good thing. I'd be perfectly happy with Anderson out there everyday, but that clearly wasn't the case last season. Hopefully it will be this time around.

Grzegorz
03-10-2007, 03:10 PM
I like Mackowiak and always have been a Rob Mackowiak fan. But he does not fit real well on this team, especially with Ozzie as manager. Guillen misused him last year, and his only real value this year is as a LH pinch hitter.

How does the fact that Guillen misused him translate into a negative on him?

He spot starts for the regulars; that is what he has done his entire career. He also has a good bat when spot starting and a plus bat when called off the bench.

Mackowiak gives a competent manager many different options.

gobears1987
03-10-2007, 03:41 PM
Would Rowand's glove offset his lack of bat?

What lack of bat? I seem to recall him hitting .310 for us once.

santo=dorf
03-10-2007, 03:54 PM
I like Mackowiak and always have been a Rob Mackowiak fan. But he does not fit real well on this team, especially with Ozzie as manager. Guillen misused him last year, and his only real value this year is as a LH pinch hitter. While useful, the Sox are more in the need of a RH hitting outfielder who can field well and play CF.

If the Sox can swing a Tracey/Logan type trade for Rowand (I'd rather it be Tracey), then they can probably get a pretty good prospect in return for Mackowiak. Or, they can always trade Anderson...
Mack would be an upgrade over Pods.
Mack's OBP and power vs. RHP > Pods' speediness
and I have a hard time believe Mack would be much, if any, of a downgrade in LF defensively.

What lack of bat? I seem to recall him hitting .310 for us once.
...and Kerry Wood once struck out 20 guys in a game. Esteban Loaiza won 21 games for us once.

07isheaven
03-10-2007, 03:58 PM
Unless it's a deal that sends lesser pitching - Logan, Tracey, et. al. - to Philly, this deal makes no sense.

A lack of middle relief doomed the Sox last year; it would be dumb to deal any of the newly acquired hurlers.

Unless they plan to send Anderson to Charlotte, there's no room for Rowand in the OF picture, either.


I agree with you. We already have Erstad and Ozzie knows not to play Rob in center. Good pitching wins it!

Rockman218
03-10-2007, 08:02 PM
Hey Santo Dorf, wher'd you get that pic of an upper deck in the outfield of the cell? Are there plans in the future for such a thing

UserNameBlank
03-10-2007, 09:08 PM
Rob may be bad defensively in the OF, but he's a pretty good pinch hitter. I believe he had a pinch hit homer against the A's last year to tie the game, which we ended up winning on a bunt single by Pablo in the 10th.

People love to **** all over Mack because he's a terrible CF and mediocre at best everywhere else. But his ability to play 6 different positions on the field is not the reason he is so valuable to the team. We have Erstad for 1B/CF/LF/RF, Ozuna for LF/3B, Cintron for 2B/3B/SS, and Hall for C, so there is no reason Mack has to start anywhere unless it is an emergency. Even then though, the Sox have Eduardo Perez, Junior Spivey, and Luis Terrero.

You hear all this Erstad love, but if Rowand comes here at the expense of Mack I'd love to see the reactions of these same people when Erstad comes in as a pinch hitter and tries to "grind out" an infield hit with RISP and 2 outs in the bottom of the 9th. Mack has some power and isn't afraid to get the big hit, and IMO is heavily underrated as far as his value to the team in concerned.

santo=dorf
03-10-2007, 10:38 PM
Hey Santo Dorf, wher'd you get that pic of an upper deck in the outfield of the cell? Are there plans in the future for such a thing
It's a "home run porch" and I found it through the search engines. :D: I hope they bring the idea back.

itsnotrequired
03-10-2007, 10:43 PM
It's a "home run porch" and I found it through the search engines. :D: I hope they bring the idea back.

I believe "black labs rule" has some thoughts (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=45780) on this matter.

:D:

Brian26
03-10-2007, 11:30 PM
It's a "home run porch" and I found it through the search engines. :D: I hope they bring the idea back.

The beauty of US Cellular Field now is in the fact that it's simple symmetry makes it unique on its own while still nodding to tradition and the old Park. Even though it doesn't have the quirky, pre-fabricated outfield dimensions or unnecessary carnival distractions like the fifteen or so parks that have been built since Camden, USCF has become unique again because of its simple symmetrical design.

That porch would look awful.

Thome25
03-11-2007, 12:18 PM
You do realize this statement makes you look like a complete dumbass and lose all credibility, don't you?

I refuse to get baited by the founder of this site. The comment that the pitcher hits better than BA was intended to be somewhat humorous. I should've put it in teal.

MySoxAreClean
03-11-2007, 06:09 PM
can we just throw anderson as a freebie?

dickallen15
03-11-2007, 06:43 PM
can we just throw anderson as a freebie?
Anderson is better than Rowand.

fusillirob1983
03-11-2007, 07:13 PM
Anderson is better than Rowand.

Personally I think he will be better than Rowand when all is said and done and he develops as a hitter, but I don't think he is yet. My previous sentence might be pointless anyway, just a matter of verb tenses.

That being said, I can't believe this thread has gone on for 159 posts.

Rowandws33
03-12-2007, 12:10 AM
Alot of talk about Rowand coming back to the team..I heard it on espn and a couple of other spots. I wish it would happen but i wont hold my breath..

The Dude
03-12-2007, 12:11 AM
Alot of talk about Rowand coming back to the team..I heard it on espn and a couple of other spots. I wish it would happen but i wont hold my breath..

There is a large thread in What's the score? .......where the rumors belong. And holding your breath, although it won't harm you much, isn't the smartest of ideas especially when it comes to Rowand.

FedEx227
03-12-2007, 12:16 AM
Anderson is better than Rowand.

You're very wrong, Anderson doesn't need to dive to catch routine balls. Plus he's not a "grinder" or "clutch".

Edward
03-12-2007, 12:47 AM
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/2491/602image09fn0.jpg

DoItForDanPasqua
03-12-2007, 01:00 AM
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i60/munchkin_2/Beat_Dead_HorseSanitysBlog.jpg

DumpJerry
03-12-2007, 01:25 AM
Alot of talk about Rowand coming back to the team..I heard it on espn and a couple of other spots. I wish it would happen but i wont hold my breath..

There is a large thread in What's the score? .......where the rumors belong. And holding your breath, although it won't harm you much, isn't the smartest of ideas especially when it comes to Rowand.
......and off to mergerland the thread goes...........

FireMariotti
03-12-2007, 03:00 PM
MLBtraderumors, a reliable source, is reporting that theres the possibility of a Rowand/Lieber for MacDougal/??? deal.

Kenny must have a thing for trucks. Rowand's truck is big enough, but has anyone seen Lieber's F650? There might have been a thread about it before. Too lazy to check.

jabrch
03-12-2007, 03:21 PM
Today, BA is a better fielder has similar power, and is, at worst, worth about 25 extra times on base over the course of a season.

I still can't believe this man-crush on Rowand. Outside of his one good season (2004) he's been very mediocre his entire career.

I'm fine with Pods, Erstadt, BA, Sweeney, etc. I really don't see any need to trade away any piece of value to acquire Aaron Rowand.

Iwritecode
03-12-2007, 03:30 PM
MLBtraderumors, a reliable source, is reporting that theres the possibility of a Rowand/Lieber for MacDougal/??? deal.

Somebody has been reading Phil Rogers column in the Cubune...

1917
03-12-2007, 03:32 PM
Today, BA is a better fielder has similar power, and is, at worst, worth about 25 extra times on base over the course of a season.

I still can't believe this man-crush on Rowand. Outside of his one good season (2004) he's been very mediocre his entire career.

I'm fine with Pods, Erstadt, BA, Sweeney, etc. I really don't see any need to trade away any piece of value to acquire Aaron Rowand.

I think everyone loves Rowand because Rowand loved us....he was a constant professional....he was one of the rare players to be traded and left with nothing great things to say about us...knowing it was just buisness...this happening in a year with Frank and Crazy Carl leaving and bad mouthing us.

ShoelessJoeS
03-12-2007, 04:09 PM
MLBtraderumors, a reliable source, is reporting that theres the possibility of a Rowand/Lieber for MacDougal/??? deal.

Kenny must have a thing for trucks. Rowand's truck is big enough, but has anyone seen Lieber's F650? There might have been a thread about it before. Too lazy to check.
I'm not worried, KW is not a ****in' idiot.

JermaineDye05
03-12-2007, 04:15 PM
As much as I love Aaron, there's no way I'd give up any of our relievers unless it's Boone Logan and/or Sean Tracey.

chisoxmike
03-12-2007, 04:20 PM
I still can't believe this man-crush on Rowand. Outside of his one good season (2004) he's been very mediocre his entire career.



Thank you.

DickAllen72
03-12-2007, 06:52 PM
As much as I love Aaron, there's no way I'd give up any of our relievers unless it's Boone Logan and/or Sean Tracey.

Or Aardsma.

soxtalker
03-12-2007, 07:19 PM
MLBtraderumors, a reliable source, is reporting that theres the possibility of a Rowand/Lieber for MacDougal/??? deal.


Somebody has been reading Phil Rogers column in the Cubune...

Iwritecode is exactly correct. This is not new information. The MLBtraderumors site explicitly cites the Rogers article as the source.

That's generally what MLBtraderumors does -- it collects bits of information from published articles (and a few blogs). They are pretty good at linking to these original sources. They do add a few comments of their own.

UserNameBlank
03-12-2007, 08:56 PM
Iwritecode is exactly correct. This is not new information. The MLBtraderumors site explicitly cites the Rogers article as the source.

That's generally what MLBtraderumors does -- it collects bits of information from published articles (and a few blogs). They are pretty good at linking to these original sources. They do add a few comments of their own.
Agreed. MLBtraderumors may report a lot of crap, but it is all second-hand, or second-ass to be more accurate.

UserNameBlank
03-12-2007, 09:29 PM
As much as I love Aaron, there's no way I'd give up any of our relievers unless it's Boone Logan and/or Sean Tracey.
The real question IMO is if Boone Logan expendable for one more year of BA's development at Triple A. Brian already is a better defender than Aaron and will be a better hitter than Aaron as well, maybe as soon as this year. Do the Sox give up a guy like Boone to let Brian develop when he could put up Rowand-like numbers right now while playing a better CF?

It would be one thing if we just gave up Tracey because he doesn't have a chance to help this team. Boone could be valuable, and if it's me, I say no to Aaron and keep Boone.

JB98
03-12-2007, 11:40 PM
Or Aardsma.

Hasn't he been awful? I guess that's what we get for making trades with the Cubs. If you can't pitch for the Cubs, who can you pitch for?

And, oh, I still don't think we need Rowand back. I'll take him in exchange for absolute zilch, but I sure as hell wouldn't trade anything of value for him.

gobears1987
03-12-2007, 11:52 PM
Hasn't he been awful? I guess that's what we get for making trades with the Cubs. If you can't pitch for the Cubs, who can you pitch for?


Jon Garland and Dontrelle Willis couldn't pitch for the Cubs.

jabrch
03-13-2007, 09:00 AM
From the department of wild speculations - Rowand had one great season in 2004, and really hasn't had significant power or productivity since. Anyone know why? Outside of the obvious speculation these days associated with anyone who has a productivity drop (PEDs) does anyone know why Aaron would have had such a great year and not been able to repeat it at all?

The Immigrant
03-13-2007, 09:10 AM
From the department of wild speculations - Rowand had one great season in 2004, and really hasn't had significant power or productivity since. Anyone know why? Outside of the obvious speculation these days associated with anyone who has a productivity drop (PEDs) does anyone know why Aaron would have had such a great year and not been able to repeat it at all?

The dropoff in his 2005 numbers was most pronounced in HRs (24 to 13) and batting average (.310 to .270). On the other hand, he had the same number of RBI in both years, and 3 more triples (and more hits) in 2005 than in 2004. His GIDP total tripled from 2004 to 2005, and that doesn't seem to be an indicator of someone quitting the juice. He just wasn't getting the breaks he got in 2004. Maybe he just had a career year in 2004 and has now returned closer to his mediocre norm? :dunno:

Domeshot17
03-13-2007, 09:34 AM
The dropoff in his 2005 numbers was most pronounced in HRs (24 to 13) and batting average (.310 to .270). On the other hand, he had the same number of RBI in both years, and 3 more triples (and more hits) in 2005 than in 2004. His GIDP total tripled from 2004 to 2005, and that doesn't seem to be an indicator of someone quitting the juice. He just wasn't getting the breaks he got in 2004. Maybe he just had a career year in 2004 and has now returned closer to his mediocre norm? :dunno:

Its not uncommon really. Basically a sophomore slump after Rowand made adjustments to his swing. Rowand made adjustments after working with Konerko in 2004. He had a great year. Then pitchers made adjustments to how they pitched him, and found ways to get him out. That is mostly seen in the huge jump in GIDP. Finding a way to make a guy hit a ground ball to he infield instead of getting it into the Gaps.

Im not saying Rowand is the answer, but I am loving some of the sense here. If Anderson hit .260 with 12 home runs and 50 Rbis people would be going insane over how good a year he had. But if Rowand did the same thing (a little less d, a little more O) he is mediocre. I like Anderson, but there is no indication he will ever be able to hit major league level pitching. He struggled last year, did not finish as strong as people think (back to a terrible September). He hasn't done much this spring. I like Brian, but I really fear he is best off a 4th OF who plays mostly as a late inning defensive replacement.

The real answer in center long term is Sweeney, but that ship might not dock this year.

Jaffar
03-13-2007, 09:50 AM
He hasn't done much this spring. I like Brian, but I really fear he is best off a 4th OF who plays mostly as a late inning defensive replacement.

.348 avg/.385 obp/.565 slg This kid just can't win with some people

Domeshot17
03-13-2007, 10:01 AM
.348 avg/.385 obp/.565 slg This kid just can't win with some people

WoW! I stand corrected. I admit I have been up to the ears with stuff for my wedding since last friday (had to change date and halls like 3 times to get everything to match up with the church, was nuts). Last I checked he was hitting .188 in A games. Do those stats count split squad and B games? If he is hitting that way, I am wrong, very very wrong about him earning his job.

itsnotrequired
03-13-2007, 10:04 AM
WoW! I stand corrected. I admit I have been up to the ears with stuff for my wedding since last friday (had to change date and halls like 3 times to get everything to match up with the church, was nuts). Last I checked he was hitting .188 in A games. Do those stats count split squad and B games? If he is hitting that way, I am wrong, very very wrong about him earning his job.

He got hot this weekend. He was batting .182 as of last Friday.

johnr1note
03-13-2007, 10:12 AM
He got hot this weekend. He was batting .182 as of last Friday.

Better then the other way around, eh?

crazyozzie02
03-13-2007, 10:16 AM
He got hot this weekend. He was batting .182 as of last Friday.

exactlly. One hit in spring training can up your average a good .100 points sometimes, which is another reason not to really play attention to spring training stats. What Sosa is hitting .500? Theres more proof for ya.

Jaffar
03-13-2007, 10:17 AM
WoW! I stand corrected. I admit I have been up to the ears with stuff for my wedding since last friday (had to change date and halls like 3 times to get everything to match up with the church, was nuts). Last I checked he was hitting .188 in A games. Do those stats count split squad and B games? If he is hitting that way, I am wrong, very very wrong about him earning his job.

I just got married in Jan so I can see how you could have missed that. It's still early in spring and a hot weekend really turned those numbers around for BA but I am a supporter of his and hope he gets another shot this year.

Congrats.:gulp:

jabrch
03-13-2007, 10:35 AM
If Anderson hit .260 with 12 home runs and 50 Rbis people would be going insane over how good a year he had. But if Rowand did the same thing (a little less d, a little more O) he is mediocre.

I think that would realte to trends. For BA to do it would imply a steep upward trend, heading in line with his career performances. For Rowand, it would still be a step down from what he did earlier in his career, and would indicate about where he'd top out.

The real answer in center long term is Sweeney, but that ship might not dock this year.

As I said in the other thread, there is room for BOTH BA and Sweeney in this OF in the future. If we can't work out a deal with JD, then either one can play RF (BA has the stronger arm, so I imagine he'd play RF). That would free up money to spend on either resigning Crede or upgrading at one of the MI spots.

jabrch
03-13-2007, 10:45 AM
WoW! I stand corrected. I admit I have been up to the ears with stuff for my wedding since last friday (had to change date and halls like 3 times to get everything to match up with the church, was nuts). Last I checked he was hitting .188 in A games. Do those stats count split squad and B games? If he is hitting that way, I am wrong, very very wrong about him earning his job.

Sample size makes Spring Training statistics VERY deceptive. He has 8 hits in 23 ABs. for a .348 average. If he goes 0 for 5 today, that falls to .285.

Brian has hit at every level. He's a .301/.375/.486 hitter in his 2.5 seasons in the minors. He hit .366/.425/.668 in his last year at Arizona. None of that guarantees anything - but he certainly deserves the benefit of the doubt given that his defense is certainly in the top tier of CFs (not at the level Andruw Jones was a few years ago, but clearly better than at least half the CFs out there, arguably in the top quarter.)

I like Sweeney too - I just think that we are too quick to bash BA because of how mightily he struggled in his first 150 or so ABs at the major league level. I have in my head right now memories of Robin Ventura, Joe Crede and a bevy of other Sox not named Frank Thomas (RKM/VC - for the record, I just said something very nice about Frank with no qualifications :-) who struggled in their first few months against big leaguers.

CLR01
03-13-2007, 11:21 AM
WoW! I stand corrected. I admit I have been up to the ears with stuff for my wedding since last friday (had to change date and halls like 3 times to get everything to match up with the church, was nuts). Last I checked he was hitting .188 in A games. Do those stats count split squad and B games? If he is hitting that way, I am wrong, very very wrong about him earning his job.


The split squad games are official games and included in the stats but the "B" games are not.

IndianWhiteSox
03-14-2007, 10:52 AM
I'm sorry, but am I one of the only ones that doesn't really care if this deal ever happens? Rowand is a good guy, did some great things for the Sox when he was here but I really don't think he is that much of an improvement over Anderson/Erstad in center. I'm pretty sure Aaron is having a pretty bad spring too.

IMO, I wouldn't even make a move for CF right now unless you could bring in an All Star type CF and I think Aaron is an average CF at best. Besides, I don't think Anderson and our CF situation was the reason we missed the playoffs last year. I think Kenny just gets bored after not making any moves for a few months and feels the need to "tinker" with things a bit.


Agreed, for the most part. The only difference being that Rowand or Any other CF means no mac in CF. But yea, why the Rowand obsession or the Anti-Rowand obsession exists is beyond me.

:?:

maurice
03-14-2007, 11:28 AM
From today's Gonzalez article (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-0703140298mar14,1,4700203.story?coll=chi-sportswhitesox-hed) on the #5 starter slot:
Guillen said the Sox had no trades in the works....

SBSoxFan
03-14-2007, 02:53 PM
FWIW, Joe Cowley said on the Score this afternoon that the rumor is true - the Sox and Phils have been discussing Rowand. According to Cowley, some Sox brass came to Cowley asking where he got his information, concerned that the Sox had a "leak". Cowley said his info came from the Phillies.

The Immigrant
03-14-2007, 02:55 PM
From today's Gonzalez article (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/chi-0703140298mar14,1,4700203.story?coll=chi-sportswhitesox-hed) on the #5 starter slot:

I read that quote to mean that there were no trades in the works for another starting pitcher, but what do I know.

DickAllen72
03-14-2007, 08:38 PM
After watching Anderson jumping back at every strike over the inside corner this afternoon, I wouldn't mind seeing Brian start the season in AAA and having Aaron Rowand starting in CF for the Sox in 2007.

FedEx227
03-14-2007, 08:53 PM
After watching Anderson jumping back at every strike over the inside corner this afternoon, I wouldn't mind seeing Brian start the season in AAA and having Aaron Rowand starting in CF for the Sox in 2007.

You wouldn't want to try an in-house replacement? No, if every there is a problem we must go to Rowand?

FarWestChicago
03-14-2007, 09:45 PM
You wouldn't want to try an in-house replacement? No, if every there is a problem we must go to Rowand?Rowand makes Mantle and Mays look pedestrian. He is the answer to all problems.

UserNameBlank
03-14-2007, 10:07 PM
You wouldn't want to try an in-house replacement? No, if every there is a problem we must go to Rowand?

I'd rather see Terrero out there than Rowand at this point. Rowand is making $5mil that the Sox may need around the trading deadline for a reliever, a leadoff man, or a starting pitcher considering that there are still big question marks on those spots. Aaron just isn't worth the salary and even if the Phils were to come back down to reality and only as for Logan, he isn't worth Logan either.

JB98
03-14-2007, 10:14 PM
I'd rather see Terrero out there than Rowand at this point. Rowand is making $5mil that the Sox may need around the trading deadline for a reliever, a leadoff man, or a starting pitcher considering that there are still big question marks on those spots. Aaron just isn't worth the salary and even if the Phils were to come back down to reality and only as for Logan, he isn't worth Logan either.

From just a pure baseball perspective, I would trade Logan for Rowand. But the point you make about the money is solid and very valid, IMO.

UserNameBlank
03-14-2007, 10:19 PM
From just a pure baseball perspective, I would trade Logan for Rowand. But the point you make about the money is solid and very valid, IMO.
should have clarified. I agree that on paper Rowand is worth Logan and probably a throw in for a team that has no one for CF - the Cubs for example. But for the Sox, he isn't worth even Logan because they have three players in Anderson, Terrero, and Erstad who all could put up similar offensive numbers and play similar or better defense. Adding Rowand would just be ****ing away minor league talent and money for the Sox.

DickAllen72
03-14-2007, 10:48 PM
You wouldn't want to try an in-house replacement?
You mean Mackowiak? Terrero? Owens?

No, if every there is a problem we must go to Rowand?
I didn't say we must go to Rowand, did I? I said I wouldn't mind Rowand. Understand?

DickAllen72
03-14-2007, 10:53 PM
Rowand makes Mantle and Mays look pedestrian. He is the answer to all problems.

And Anderson makes Mantle and Mays look like...well...Mantle and Mays.

Rowand is not the answer to all problems. But he's one possible solution to the White Sox' 2007 CF problem if Anderson is not ready.

Frater Perdurabo
03-14-2007, 11:00 PM
Rowand makes Mantle and Mays look pedestrian. He is the answer to all problems.

Didn't you hear? Rowand cured cancer, too! He also saved me a ton of money on my car insurance.

crazyozzie02
03-14-2007, 11:36 PM
:tomatoaward :tomatoaward

AJ Hellraiser
03-15-2007, 01:46 AM
I'd rather see Terrero out there than Rowand at this point. Rowand is making $5mil that the Sox may need around the trading deadline for a reliever, a leadoff man, or a starting pitcher considering that there are still big question marks on those spots. Aaron just isn't worth the salary and even if the Phils were to come back down to reality and only as for Logan, he isn't worth Logan either.

Not that I am advocating bringing Rowand back because I have never understood the man-love on this board for him...BUT, I don't see how his $5 mil salary would have any affect on the Sox making a move at the trade deadline....

Remember, there is no salary cap in baseball... if the Sox are in contention and need a piece KW will ad it and Jerry Reinsdorf will have no problem paying for it... Trust me, any deadline moves won't be stopped because of $5mil...

WhiteSox5187
03-15-2007, 02:07 AM
Well, here's my humble opinion...if Anderson continues to struggle like last year we'll need to find another option for the short term and Aaron Rowand would certainly be a very good potential canidate.

Jaffar
03-15-2007, 08:27 AM
Well, here's my humble opinion...if Anderson continues to struggle like last year we'll need to find another option for the short term and Aaron Rowand would certainly be a very good potential canidate.

Um, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Erstad at $1M in 2007 and a club option for 2008 exactly that?

spawn
03-15-2007, 08:37 AM
Um, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Erstad at $1M in 2007 and a club option for 2008 exactly that?
Not for those who still have a man-crush on Rowand...

balke
03-15-2007, 10:31 AM
I guess we could acquire Rowand and trade Erstad if he's doing well when we figure out we still need a 5th starter to be successful in this division.

MISoxfan
03-15-2007, 11:06 AM
You have to go back to '04 since Erstad had a season at the plate that compares to Rowands "poor" plate performances the last two seasons. He is a better candidate than Erstad in my opinion.


Is he worth $5 mil? I don't know. Salaries are changing across the board, I don't think half of mlb is worth what they make. I think maybe I need to get used to it.

Daver
03-15-2007, 11:16 AM
After Kenny trades for Rowand he should call Billy Pierce, the Sox still need a fifth starter.

Jaffar
03-15-2007, 11:59 AM
You have to go back to '04 since Erstad had a season at the plate that compares to Rowands "poor" plate performances the last two seasons. He is a better candidate than Erstad in my opinion.


Is he worth $5 mil? I don't know. Salaries are changing across the board, I don't think half of mlb is worth what they make. I think maybe I need to get used to it.

Why go back to 2004?

Rowands 2005 season .270/.329/.407



Erstads 2005 season .273/.325/.371

In 2006 they were both out with injuries but Erstad only had 95 AB's compared to Rowands 405 (which interestingly enough is more than BA had in 2006).

MISoxfan
03-15-2007, 12:14 PM
Oh, I guess I was wrong Erstad was better in '05 than I thought. Rowand was still better, but definatelly not by much. Rowand just has a little more pop in his bat than Erstad at this age.

EMachine10
03-15-2007, 12:18 PM
this thread still exists?:rolleyes:

Jaffar
03-15-2007, 01:16 PM
this thread still exists?:rolleyes:

As long as the man lives a thread of this type will exist. No teal needed.

crazyozzie02
03-15-2007, 01:26 PM
As long as the man lives a thread of this type will exist. No teal needed.

I think the threads will still go on long after he is dead.

XplodingScorbord
03-15-2007, 01:34 PM
Didn't you hear? Rowand cured cancer, too! He also saved me a ton of money on my car insurance.

:rolling:Aaron Rowand made me 10 pounds lighter and a better dancer.

maurice
03-15-2007, 04:26 PM
Rowand cured cancer, too!

No no no, you have it mixed up. Rowand's tears cure cancer, just like Chuck Norris and Ross Gload. Too bad they've never cried.

jabrch
03-15-2007, 05:18 PM
Why go back to 2004?

Rowands 2005 season .270/.329/.407



Erstads 2005 season .273/.325/.371

In 2006 they were both out with injuries but Erstad only had 95 AB's compared to Rowands 405 (which interestingly enough is more than BA had in 2006).

Erstad is much maligned by the BP/Firejoemorgan.com crowd, as a proxy for a particular type of hitter - those who actually hit well, but not for power, and aren't huge OPB guys, but steal bases effectively. File Pods and Pierre in that group too. BP and its minions don't appreciate what those players do for teams, but winning teams tend to have guys like that. Is it a cause/effect relationship? I don't know - but without a Yankees like payroll, you need to find guys who can hit #2 and #8/9 who do things productively, that help an offense, that fit into a budget. Pods and Erstad (and BA) will all do that this year for us. We are a much better team for having them than not. Not having them doesn't mean we'd have Manny Ramirez. It means we'd have 3 other guys who combine to make under 6mm. Now I'm sure the geniuses out there can say they'd definitely have a guy with a WARP7 who is better than those guys combined, and that they'd be able to sign him for less, and that he'd fit in a position and a lineup spot where we need him. I'm sure they are right - they are much more experienced baseball people than KW, Hahn, OG, etc.

We don't have a great OF, but we have 4 guys (BA, Pods, Erstad, Dye) who definitely could start for most teams, and a 5th on the way (Sweeney). How many teams in MLB have OFs that are absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt BETTER than ours? (Under 5 for sure - BOS/NYY/?)

I'm still amazed that some people will work this hard to find something to bitch about during Spring Training, just for the glory of being a critic.

IndianWhiteSox
03-16-2007, 05:05 AM
After Kenny trades for Rowand he should call Billy Pierce, the Sox still need a fifth starter.

Why stop there, they can just sign Jim Parque or better yet, they can dig up Ed Walsh's grave and see if he can still pitch.

IndianWhiteSox
03-16-2007, 05:08 AM
I think the threads will still go on long after he is dead.

Oh I can see it now,


Aaron Rowand was the greatest CF in the history of baseball and especially in the history of the White Sox who makes Jim Landis look like Julio Ramirez.

Mohoney
03-16-2007, 05:12 AM
You can't really judge Anderson on Spring stats. He'll always hit well in Arizona. He's got a comfort level there.

Every year that he suits up for Cactus League, he'll post a .300 average. Book it.

You need to study his swing. I'm sure that's what Kenny Williams is doing.

maurice
03-16-2007, 11:52 AM
I read that quote to mean that there were no trades in the works for another starting pitcher, but what do I know.

You could be right, but here's another (http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/whitesox.asp?id=291085):
Williams did say no major trades are in the works, putting to rest rumors ranging from Aaron Rowand to Carl Pavano. “We have the right people here,’’ Williams said. “We have the personnel that can win a championship. If you see a trade, you can never say never, it’ll be somebody that’s behind another guy, where that position might be blocked [presumably Rogo or Tracey].’’

soxtalker
03-16-2007, 12:19 PM
The latest Ken Rosenthal article (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6574698) has an interesting comment on Rowand. It's a quote from a scout, indicating that he hasn't looked too good this spring. Now, it may just be one person's opinion (who wasn't even named), and, even if accurate, it could just be a slow start. But the current AR may not be quite the same player we all remember.

IndianWhiteSox
03-16-2007, 12:25 PM
The latest Ken Rosenthal article (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6574698) has an interesting comment on Rowand. It's a quote from a scout, indicating that he hasn't looked too good this spring. Now, it may just be one person's opinion (who wasn't even named), and, even if accurate, it could just be a slow start. But the current AR may not be quite the same player we all remember.

He probably isn't as good as everyone who's dying for him remembers him.

HotelWhiteSox
03-16-2007, 12:51 PM
The latest Ken Rosenthal article (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6574698) has an interesting comment on Rowand. It's a quote from a scout, indicating that he hasn't looked too good this spring. Now, it may just be one person's opinion (who wasn't even named), and, even if accurate, it could just be a slow start. But the current AR may not be quite the same player we all remember.

I like him but the same player I remember wasn't even that good. He did a nice job of taking over center, but was a liability on offense. And several bunt/baserunning mistakes stick out in my mind.

jabrch
03-16-2007, 01:03 PM
He probably isn't as good as everyone who's dying for him remembers him.

Babe Ruth wasn't as good as some people seem to remember Aaron Rowand was.

chisoxmike
03-16-2007, 02:12 PM
... But the current AR may not be quite the same player we all remember.

...and what do we remember him being exactly?

spawn
03-16-2007, 03:27 PM
...and what do we remember him being exactly?
The second coming of Willie Mays...

FarWestChicago
03-16-2007, 04:46 PM
The second coming of Willie Mays...Yeah, but Mays sucked at running into walls compared to Rowand!

DumpJerry
03-16-2007, 05:55 PM
...and what do we remember him being exactly?
for his call of Pods' home run in Game 2 with BA (ironically) doing the color.

ILuvThatDuck
03-16-2007, 05:58 PM
Babe Ruth wasn't as good as some people seem to remember Aaron Rowand was.

Babe who?

The second coming of Willie Mays...

Willie whom?

Isnt he that guy from that movie?

http://blogs.nydailynews.com/giants/archives/WillieMaysHayes.jpg

Fox-To-Aparicio
03-21-2007, 10:45 AM
It is at the bottom of the page in the footnote section. Sorry if already posted.

http://www.denverpost.com/rockies/ci_5483072

Glen

sox1970
03-21-2007, 10:46 AM
Prepare for a beatdown.

Jerko
03-21-2007, 10:47 AM
:o::o::o::o:

Fox-To-Aparicio
03-21-2007, 10:47 AM
Why?

Just posting a link.

What's the problem?

spiffie
03-21-2007, 10:48 AM
Wrong section + Rowand rumor could possibly equal a mod coming to your home and shooting you.

Fox-To-Aparicio
03-21-2007, 10:49 AM
Can they move it to the appropriate section? I see links to stories all the time here?

spawn
03-21-2007, 10:50 AM
:DJ
"Uh oh!"

spawn
03-21-2007, 10:52 AM
Why?

Just posting a link.

What's the problem?
You may want to read this (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=1507360&postcount=2).

Flight #24
03-21-2007, 11:03 AM
Depending on the reliever, I'd do Lieber+Rowand for someone like Aardsma/Logan. Maybe even Broadway. Seems like a small price to pay from a position of depth to get a veteran SP.

The Immigrant
03-21-2007, 11:37 AM
With half the NL looking for serviceable starters, surely Philly could do better than Aardsma/Logan for Lieber/Rowand. Last week Rogers was suggesting that Philly wanted Crede or Fields thrown in :o:.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/cs-070311rogersinside,0,3791156.column

Law11
03-21-2007, 01:21 PM
This morning I was listen to jason stark and Olney talk about The hottest trade rumor was Rowand to the Sox, but that the Sox were going to have to offer a lot more then Boone Logan.

crazyozzie02
03-21-2007, 01:47 PM
This morning I was listen to jason stark and Olney talk about The hottest trade rumor was Rowand to the Sox, but that the Sox were going to have to offer a lot more then Boone Logan.

Oh God, here we go again

chitownhawkfan
03-21-2007, 02:49 PM
This morning I was listen to jason stark and Olney talk about The hottest trade rumor was Rowand to the Sox, but that the Sox were going to have to offer a lot more then Boone Logan.

I'm a huge Aaron Rowand fan, but if takes much more than Boone Logan I would hang up the phone.

UserNameBlank
03-21-2007, 03:13 PM
I'm a huge Aaron Rowand fan, but if takes much more than Boone Logan I would hang up the phone.

I'd hang up the phone as soon as I heard Aaron Rowand.

Lip Man 1
03-21-2007, 05:01 PM
According to Jayson Stark's latest column at ESPN.com the Sox were looking at Rowand, who is available, but stated they will not trade any of their main relief pitchers. The Phillies were quoted as saying they aren't going to give up their starting center fielder for a "6th inning" guy (i.e. Logan.)

Lip

Rowandws33
03-21-2007, 05:20 PM
Jon Lieber's situation should come to a breaking point soon. The Phillies aren't going to use him as a reliever. The most logical scenarios floating around: Lieber and Aaron Rowand to the White Sox for a reliever, or Lieber to the Brewers for Kevin Mench.
-- Denver Post
just saw this on cnnsi.com just wanted to post it for everyone.

sox1970
03-21-2007, 05:22 PM
:o:

CLR01
03-21-2007, 05:27 PM
:o:


Good lord some people just don't get it.