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rainbow6
03-08-2007, 11:07 PM
After hearing all winter how the fifth starter's spot will be a battle between several candidates, I'm getting the impression that this is a two-man race (Floyd and Haeger)...I'm I wrong?

If both fail to impress this spring, would anybody be suprised if Kenny Williams traded for another starter? Not a top-of-rotation type, but a veteran who could be counted on to eat some innings...

Also...

If Brian Anderson continues to hit under .200 will he make the team? With Pods injury situation and Erdstad's age/prior injury situation I sense that Anderson will be brought North for his defense regardless of his offensive performance this month.

ondafarm
03-08-2007, 11:42 PM
After hearing all winter how the fifth starter's spot will be a battle between several candidates, I'm getting the impression that this is a two-man race (Floyd and Haeger)...I'm I wrong?

If both fail to impress this spring, would anybody be suprised if Kenny Williams traded for another starter? Not a top-of-rotation type, but a veteran who could be counted on to eat some innings...

Also...

If Brian Anderson continues to hit under .200 will he make the team? With Pods injury situation and Erdstad's age/prior injury situation I sense that Anderson will be brought North for his defense regardless of his offensive performance this month.

No and yes unless Sweeney or Fields shows they absolutely don't need the time.

JB98
03-08-2007, 11:45 PM
After hearing all winter how the fifth starter's spot will be a battle between several candidates, I'm getting the impression that this is a two-man race (Floyd and Haeger)...I'm I wrong?

If both fail to impress this spring, would anybody be suprised if Kenny Williams traded for another starter? Not a top-of-rotation type, but a veteran who could be counted on to eat some innings...

Also...

If Brian Anderson continues to hit under .200 will he make the team? With Pods injury situation and Erdstad's age/prior injury situation I sense that Anderson will be brought North for his defense regardless of his offensive performance this month.

One thing about Haeger, the knuckle-ball never works well in Arizona. I think the guy has a chance to be a good big-league pitcher, and my opinion won't change even if he struggles all spring.

One other point, I sort of wonder if Floyd will get the job initially because the organization wants to give him every opportunity to prove we got a good return on the Garcia trade.

I personally did not like the Garcia deal at all, but I sure hope Floyd gives me a helping of crow this season.

Carp
03-08-2007, 11:58 PM
It looks like Danks has a shot too. I wouldn't see why not either since he's been impressive so far. That said, it may be best to give him a year in AAA.

Hitmen77
03-09-2007, 12:33 AM
After hearing all winter how the fifth starter's spot will be a battle between several candidates, I'm getting the impression that this is a two-man race (Floyd and Haeger)...I'm I wrong?

If both fail to impress this spring, would anybody be suprised if Kenny Williams traded for another starter? Not a top-of-rotation type, but a veteran who could be counted on to eat some innings...

Also...

If Brian Anderson continues to hit under .200 will he make the team? With Pods injury situation and Erdstad's age/prior injury situation I sense that Anderson will be brought North for his defense regardless of his offensive performance this month.

1) I'm hoping that between Floyd, Haegar, and Danks that at least one of them will be good enough to be our 5th starter. I think that's what KW is counting on - so don't expect a trade

2) Is it me, or has Anderson not started too many games this spring? I find this surprising since I figured this spring was his chance to get alot of at bats and show Ozzie whether he's improved or not.

Blueprint1
03-09-2007, 12:35 AM
1) I'm hoping that between Floyd, Haegar, and Danks that at least one of them will be good enough to be our 5th starter. I think that's what KW is counting on - so don't expect a trade

2) Is it me, or has Anderson not started too many games this spring? I find this surprising since I figured this spring was his chance to get alot of at bats and show Ozzie whether he's improved or not.

I think its crazy that people have given up on Brian Anderson.

Hitmen77
03-09-2007, 12:45 AM
I think its crazy that people have given up on Brian Anderson.

Yep, it's only March 8. Spring Training is just getting into full swing.

By the way, I was asking earlier about why BA wasn't starting that much - but today he started in the Sox "B" game.

AJ Hellraiser
03-09-2007, 01:47 AM
I haven't heard too much about Sweeney thus far, but everytime I see a box score it looks like Fields is just crushing the ball...

I've watched 2 games on tv and combined with the games I saw him play last year it looks like the ball just jumps off his bat.... if he keeps hitting well, how is he not the starting LF with Erstad in CF...

Anderson sucks too much at the plate...

Huisj
03-09-2007, 02:50 AM
Maybe Anderson can solve the 5th starter spot question! He takes really good routes when covering first base! He'd have the best range of any pitcher in the league.

oeo
03-09-2007, 02:55 AM
I haven't heard too much about Sweeney thus far, but everytime I see a box score it looks like Fields is just crushing the ball...

I've watched 2 games on tv and combined with the games I saw him play last year it looks like the ball just jumps off his bat.... if he keeps hitting well, how is he not the starting LF with Erstad in CF...

Probably because Fields has not played any outfield. You can't just throw the guy out there. You seem to dislike Anderson a lot, so you want to throw another rookie out there? It'll be another disaster, and you'll end up disliking Fields as well. :rolleyes:

Anderson sucks too much at the plate...Anderson had a pretty good spring last year. That tells you how much Spring Training stats mean. I can almost guarantee that Fields would not make an impact if he were on the Opening Day roster. It's just not the same. And I have a feeling when Fields does come up for good, he will have the same struggles Crede had and now Anderson is having. Anderson was a rookie last year, he's changed some things, now Ozzie just needs to let him get ABs.

Jurr
03-09-2007, 08:06 AM
As far as Anderson goes, there's talk of his WS fence jumping buddy coming ba....................

....I will leave it at that. :wink:

russ99
03-09-2007, 09:34 AM
As far as Anderson goes, there's talk of his WS fence jumping buddy coming ba....................

....I will leave it at that. :wink:

Yup. I for one hopes KW gets it done and the Sox take it slow with Anderson as they did with Crede.

I also think Danks can win the #5 job if he keeps up his performance the rest of the spring.

ondafarm
03-09-2007, 10:04 AM
I think the 5th starter spot is not as open as most people here think. It's Floyd's to lose. I think the CF spot is even less open, the only question is how much playing time will BA get. Erstad is a competent defender there (unlike Mack) so the time could be split differently.

SBSoxFan
03-09-2007, 10:24 AM
As far as Anderson goes, there's talk of his WS fence jumping buddy coming ba....................

....I will leave it at that. :wink:

whaaaaattt? Is this a new rumor, or the rehashed old rumor? :smile:

soxinem1
03-09-2007, 10:27 AM
I think the 5th starter spot is not as open as most people here think. It's Floyd's to lose. I think the CF spot is even less open, the only question is how much playing time will BA get. Erstad is a competent defender there (unlike Mack) so the time could be split differently.

I think he is doing a good job losing it, the only question is, to who will he lose it to? He just seems so hittable, and I was NOT a detractor of the Garcia trade. He's not getting the ball over the plate consistently and when he does, he's giving up a ton of hits. He also does not seem to be a very hard thrower. For a guy who has a chance to be a starting pitcher for the 2005 World Series Champs and a chance to go back to the post-season, he sure doesn't seem to have a lot of heart.

At the same token, I know it's ST, and all the usual 'Arizona' weather crap is a nice excuse, but our starters have looked like crap, minus one or two games.

Danks has only been pitching an inning or so in his appearances, hardly the tune-up for a SP, same with Gio. Sort of seems like they are in the 'look-see' mode with them.

But I cannot see them handing Haeger the spot unless he just outright takes it with dominance.

As far as BA is concerned, he needs to step it up and take the job in CF, plain and simple. But Crede was given a LOT of time to develop, they should do the same with him, unless his attitude sucks.

Lukin13
03-09-2007, 10:36 AM
the NUMBER ONE REASON (not the ONLY reason) the team ERA was up last year was because there were too many games with two of our starting outfielders being: pods, mack, or pablo. The flood gates were constantly opened by their inefficient play out there, where as in '05 the team would have been in the dugout. Missing a play on defense (not just an error) leads to more batters faced, more pitches thrown, early moves to the pen and more runs in the box score.

If I were Ozzie/Kenny, Anderson would get the starting job, if he can hit a measly .250 by the break, he keeps the job.

For those who have been lucky enough to watch more than the Cubs game...

if Pods is a 2 out of 10 defensive left fielder, what would you rate Erstad? Sweeney? now how about those two in center??

with a lineup including iguchi, thome, konerko, dye, crede, aj... the last thing I am worried about out of these two OF spots is offense.

thedudeabides
03-09-2007, 10:56 AM
whaaaaattt? Is this a new rumor, or the rehashed old rumor? :smile:

It's a new one.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/289932,CST-SPT-sox09.article

soxinem1
03-09-2007, 10:56 AM
the NUMBER ONE REASON (not the ONLY reason) the team ERA was up last year was because there were too many games with two of our starting outfielders being: pods, mack, or pablo. The flood gates were constantly opened by their inefficient play out there, where as in '05 the team would have been in the dugout. Missing a play on defense (not just an error) leads to more batters faced, more pitches thrown, early moves to the pen and more runs in the box score.

If I were Ozzie/Kenny, Anderson would get the starting job, if he can hit a measly .250 by the break, he keeps the job.

For those who have been lucky enough to watch more than the Cubs game...

if Pods is a 2 out of 10 defensive left fielder, what would you rate Erstad? Sweeney? now how about those two in center??

with a lineup including iguchi, thome, konerko, dye, crede, aj... the last thing I am worried about out of these two OF spots is offense.

There were more reasons than that, they were only a few contributing factors. The defense of Iguchi and Uribe was not stellar at all, as DP's turned were way down from the year before. Turning DP's kept a ton of runs off the board in 2005.

I think the only players who improved defensively from 2005 were Dye and Crede.

Then offensively, DP's hit into were way up from the year before. Baserunning stunk, hitting behind runners stunk, holding baserunners stunk (it did in 2005 too, to be fair, but nowhere near as bad as it did last year).

Thus, it was a total team effort.

RockyMtnSoxFan
03-09-2007, 11:12 AM
As far as that rumor goes, I'd be all for it. I know some people around here are down on Rowand, but I think his competitive attitude is good to have around. Besides AJ, a lot of the other players seem to be kind of laid back.

That said, I agree with a previous post that said BA should get the job if he can hit .250 or so. Pitching and defense won a championship before.

There is an article on whitesox.com that says the 5th starter spot is wide open, and everybody is still being considered. Then it goes on to say that, actually, only three people really have a shot. It talks about how Haeger pitched poorly yesterday, and even though Floyd gave up six runs, Guillen felt it was a step in the right direction. Then there's all the talk about how Danks needs more time in the minors.

http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070308&content_id=1833809&vkey=spt2007news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

Basically, it seems like they have given the job to Floyd already, and are just playing up the competition for appearance sake.

Dolemite79
03-09-2007, 01:54 PM
Its too bad about Danks ive been saying for awhile now that id really like to see another lefty in the rotation

WhiteSox5187
03-09-2007, 02:23 PM
Basically, it seems like they have given the job to Floyd already, and are just playing up the competition for appearance sake.
Floyd does not impress me. That Garcia trade might look like a pretty big mistake later on in the season.

chisox77
03-09-2007, 02:28 PM
Floyd, Haeger, Danks - it appears to be in that order for the 5th starter. However, how good is AJ or Toby Hall at catching a knuckleballer? (remember Karkovice caught whenever Charlie Hough pitched, giving Pudge a break from that kind of duty).

As for re-acquiring a popular former CF . . . it seems likely since the talk persists. Philly is looking for some bullpen help - would be a decent trade to add experience and depth to the OF. Many intangibles would be added as well.

:cool:

Hitmen77
03-09-2007, 02:57 PM
Floyd does not impress me. That Garcia trade might look like a pretty big mistake later on in the season.

I would agree only if Gio also eventually flops.

maurice
03-09-2007, 03:19 PM
I don't think we can tell how Anderson is hitting this spring, because I don't believe that the B game stats are included. We're left with a random sampling of a relatively small number of ABs.

Fortunately, the guys who work for the Sox and help make the decisions can see him all the time and are in the best position to make these judgments.

jabrch
03-09-2007, 04:09 PM
I would agree only if Gio also eventually flops.

And Freddy would have to have a season better than a replacement level player. And then the negative value to the deal would only be the one year of Freddy and the compensatory pick, less the cost of Freddy's salary. This was low risk given that KW had already concluded that Garcia wasn't going to resign in a price range/time that we'd be interested in.

All Floyd or Gio have to do is have one year even marginally decent at their respective prices and it would make that a good deal.

champagne030
03-09-2007, 04:51 PM
And Freddy would have to have a season better than a replacement level player. And then the negative value to the deal would only be the one year of Freddy and the compensatory pick, less the cost of Freddy's salary. This was low risk given that KW had already concluded that Garcia wasn't going to resign in a price range/time that we'd be interested in.

All Floyd or Gio have to do is have one year even marginally decent at their respective prices and it would make that a good deal.

A good deal sometime later than '07. Assuming Floyd is a bust and nobody steps up in the 5 spot, we screwed ourselves for this season....Something KW said he wouldn't do and that's make a move for the future that would hurt us now. While I'm not currently happy with what's going on in the 5 spot competition, I do realize it's March 9 and maybe someone will step up.

UserNameBlank
03-09-2007, 05:07 PM
A good deal sometime later than '07. Assuming Floyd is a bust and nobody steps up in the 5 spot, we screwed ourselves for this season....Something KW said he wouldn't do and that's make a move for the future that would hurt us now. While I'm not currently happy with what's going on in the 5 spot competition, I do realize it's March 9 and maybe someone will step up.

Danks and Gio have pit hed very well. Heager isn't too far behind, and Phillips had a good outing last time he was out. Basically, so far just about everyone is looking better than Floyd.

champagne030
03-09-2007, 05:14 PM
Danks and Gio have pit hed very well. Heager isn't too far behind, and Phillips had a good outing last time he was out. Basically, so far just about everyone is looking better than Floyd.

I would be shocked if Danks, Gio or Phillips saw Chicago this season. I'm hoping Haeger wins the battle because I think he'll produce the best results for us.

nodiggity59
03-09-2007, 05:23 PM
Danks and Gio have pit hed very well. Heager isn't too far behind, and Phillips had a good outing last time he was out. Basically, so far just about everyone is looking better than Floyd.

Which, given the absurdity of ST, means he'll probably be the best bet to perform well in the #5 spot. Remember BMac's dominance in ST a couple years ago? Don't put any stock in these games.

For Floyd to not take the #5 spot would take a serious challenge from someone else, one that would be so plain that the eyes could see it regardless of the numbers. As good as Danks and Gio have been this ST, I have a hard time believing they'd do better than 4.5 - 5.0 era. Why not just go w/ Floyd at 5.0 - 5.5 ERA and not lose control of him, while the others develop at AAA?

FarWestChicago
03-09-2007, 05:28 PM
While I'm not currently happy...When have you ever been happy? :dunno:

RockyMtnSoxFan
03-09-2007, 05:51 PM
And Freddy would have to have a season better than a replacement level player. And then the negative value to the deal would only be the one year of Freddy and the compensatory pick, less the cost of Freddy's salary. This was low risk given that KW had already concluded that Garcia wasn't going to resign in a price range/time that we'd be interested in.

All Floyd or Gio have to do is have one year even marginally decent at their respective prices and it would make that a good deal.

It depends on your criteria for measuring the trade. Someone in another thread said that Floyd only has one option left, which I didn't know but KW surely did. So he knew that their would be little opportunity to let Floyd develop (which his history indicates that he needs), and he made the trade anyway. To me that says that the trade was more about getting rid of Freddy and his contract than about getting a quality pitching prospect. So if you judge the trade by its impact on the payroll, then it was a good deal. However, if you are interested in succeeding this year, or getting prospects for the future, perhaps not. That remains to be seen.

SouthSide2Ship
03-09-2007, 07:16 PM
before WSI snobs jump all over me for beating a dead horse, but i just heard on chicago tribune live that there are reports that kenny has been talking to philadelphia about bringing Aaron Rowand back. I'd trade boone logan for Ro-Ro back!!:dtroll:

jabrch
03-09-2007, 07:37 PM
It depends on your criteria for measuring the trade. Someone in another thread said that Floyd only has one option left, which I didn't know but KW surely did. So he knew that their would be little opportunity to let Floyd develop (which his history indicates that he needs), and he made the trade anyway. To me that says that the trade was more about getting rid of Freddy and his contract than about getting a quality pitching prospect. So if you judge the trade by its impact on the payroll, then it was a good deal. However, if you are interested in succeeding this year, or getting prospects for the future, perhaps not. That remains to be seen.

It doesn't look to me like Gavin is out of options - but I'm not sure that matters. Either he makes it this year, or he doesn't. I don't see him being a long term project if he doesn't have the stuff that they think he has. His options become irrelevant anyhow if he has even a decent year this year. In any case, Gio is still a top 5 LH SP prospect in all of minor league baseball. He's got a good chance of being a middle of the rotation starter. 6 years of that is worth one of Freddy. (I'm a huge Freddy fan and will miss him - but I can live without him if it makes us better.)

Domeshot17
03-10-2007, 12:22 AM
(1) I wonder how Masset plays into this. I keep hearing that he won't go away from starter talk. His stuff has just been so impressive that he keeps entering the conversation. I wonder how we do with him the 5 and Floyd in his bullpen slot

(2) I like Brian, but he has to earn his spot this spring. Its still pretty early, but he basically has less then a month to prove he belongs. Defense wins championships, but you can't win with a completely ineffecient offensive OF. You could be looking at pods/erstad who are both light hitters, Brian who is all glove no stick right now and Dye.

Another thing is you NEED Anderson to clear .260 and .320-.330 obp. The guys who can get on base infront of our boppers are Uribe Anderson Pods/Erstad and Iguchi. Right now only 1 of them is anything close to reliable to getting on base for the Thome-Konerko-Dye trio. You know what you get from the other 3. Uribe will give you the occasional hot streaks, but never will come near a .325 obp (which is still very sad). Pods is a low OBP guy, and Erstad is solid but he is basically running on fumes in the gas tank. I know people like the pass off on the idea the 9 hitter is not important, but in the AL, after the 2nd inning, he is basically your 2nd lead off man.

I don't know if bringing Rowand back is the answer, because he is basically the same offensive player, just with Andersons cieling already there. Anderson is probably never better then a .265-.270 15 60 guy with 9-15 stolen bases. Rowand is that right now, but Brian's D is better. I think Sweeney really has a chance this spring to take away a job. His bat is nice, and his D is very fluid. He won't give you what Anderson did, but he should be able to give you above average D in center with a .300 bat with power potential.

CLR01
03-10-2007, 12:25 AM
before WSI snobs jump all over me for beating a dead horse, but i just heard on chicago tribune live that there are reports that kenny has been talking to philadelphia about bringing Aaron Rowand back. I'd trade boone logan for Ro-Ro back!!:dtroll:

You should get jumped on for using a stupid ass nickname like Ro-Ro. It sounds like something my 18 month old niece would say.

FarWestChicago
03-10-2007, 08:53 AM
You should get jumped on for using a stupid ass nickname like Ro-Ro. It sounds like something my 18 month old niece would say.:rolling:

Jurr
03-10-2007, 08:59 AM
And Freddy would have to have a season better than a replacement level player. And then the negative value to the deal would only be the one year of Freddy and the compensatory pick, less the cost of Freddy's salary. This was low risk given that KW had already concluded that Garcia wasn't going to resign in a price range/time that we'd be interested in.

All Floyd or Gio have to do is have one year even marginally decent at their respective prices and it would make that a good deal.
Stop it, stop it, STOP IT! We can't have people making sense around here. It just doesn't work!!!:wink:

RedHeadPaleHoser
03-10-2007, 09:43 AM
before WSI snobs jump all over me for beating a dead horse, but i just heard on chicago tribune live that there are reports that kenny has been talking to philadelphia about bringing Aaron Rowand back. I'd trade boone logan for Ro-Ro back!!:dtroll:

Ro Ro? Astro, is that you?

http://www.scarlet.nl/~ivo/photo_ASTRO3.JPEG


"Reah!!!! "

champagne030
03-10-2007, 10:55 AM
When have you ever been happy? :dunno:

10/26/05 and when people don't do or say dumb things.

FarWestChicago
03-10-2007, 12:28 PM
10/26/05 and when people don't do or say dumb things.Well that certainly explains a lot. :smile:

JermaineDye05
03-10-2007, 03:55 PM
Just out of curiousity does anyone really worry about ST batting averages. I know Iguchi is having a pretty rough spring as are Dye and Thome batting average wise. Iguchi had a bad spring last year though too and he still put up his regular numbers. So would ST batting averages really be anything to worry about?

Frater Perdurabo
03-10-2007, 04:36 PM
Just out of curiousity does anyone really worry about ST batting averages. ... So would ST batting averages really be anything to worry about?

No and no.

DrGozzie
03-11-2007, 12:32 PM
I think we would regret not keeping BA. His defense is amazing, and his bat will come around in due time.

viagracat
03-11-2007, 02:37 PM
Anderson was kind of an enigma last year. On the one hand, he was often criticized for being cocky and arrogant, especially when it came to the plate. OTOH, he often did not take charge in CF. He's the captain of the outfield and has to direct players away from the ball or from each other at times. Like he was afraid of pissing off old-timers like Uribe. That can't be allowed to continue.

I was seriously down on BA last year, but am willing to give him his chance this year. I think he was told in no uncertain terms some things have to change and I believe he's smart enough to take that advice.

As far as Rowand goes, I know bringing him back will get props for being a fan-friendly move, but I can take it or leave it. Sure, he's a grinder and all that, but he also plays dumb baseball too much, and we don't need that either. Let's develop BA, get Erstad, Sweeney and Pods ready and forget about Rowand for now.

And I also think the Sox will make a deal for a starter, sooner rather than later, regardless of who emerges from spring training.

JorgeFabregas
03-11-2007, 07:22 PM
BA brought his average up to .348 today. He is 4-4 with 2 SB, a run, a walk, and an RBI in the past two games. Doesn't mean too much, but you rather him do well. It's nice to see his strikeouts down thus far.

I recall last year he tore it up during ST and it seemed to carry over to the first regular game.

Frater Perdurabo
03-11-2007, 10:31 PM
I recall last year he tore it up during ST and it seemed to carry over to the first regular game.

Then Ozzie inexplicably benched him in the second game.

ondafarm
03-11-2007, 10:40 PM
Then Ozzie inexplicably benched him in the second game.

This year Ozzie is benching him for the first game.

Frater Perdurabo
03-12-2007, 07:23 AM
This year Ozzie is benching him for the first game.

With Erstad, the Sox have another competent defensive CF on the roster. I don't mind if Anderson starts the season at Charlotte.

I did mind last year, because benching Brian meant that Mackowiak played CF. I think even Rob would admit he was not a competent MLB defensive CF.

cheezheadsoxfan
03-12-2007, 09:07 AM
With Erstad, the Sox have another competent defensive CF on the roster. I don't mind if Anderson starts the season at Charlotte.

I did mind last year, because benching Brian meant that Mackowiak played CF. I think even Rob would admit he was not a competent MLB defensive CF.

And judging from the game against the Cubs, he's kinda scary in RF as well.

wdelaney72
03-12-2007, 10:41 AM
2006 - BA .262
2005 - BA .270

This man has to be the most overrated player in White Sox history. I can't wait until he retires so I don't ever have to hear "rumors" of him coming back ever again.

CLR01
03-12-2007, 12:03 PM
2006 - BA .262
2005 - BA .270

This man has to be the most overrated player in White Sox history. I can't wait until he retires so I don't ever have to hear "rumors" of him coming back ever again.

Retirement won't stop the rumors. He'd always be "thinking of coming out of retirement" or he'd always be the next best White Sox manager.

maurice
03-12-2007, 01:37 PM
Just out of curiousity does anyone really worry about ST batting averages.

What I learned from the Chicago media is that Spring AVE is (1) really important if Anderson has a low AVE in his 1st 15 ABs, but (2) unimportant if more ABs result in a .348 AVE.

I also learned that a 4.50 ERA in the Spring means that you're failing in your bid for #5 starter if your name is Floyd or Haeger, notwithstanding the fact that a 4.50 ERA would be really good for a #5 starter in the AL.

Previous to this education, I believed that stats aren't very meaningful when you're talking about sample sizes of 25 ABs and 6 IP. Silly me.

Jaffar
03-12-2007, 01:52 PM
Maurice, those were my thoughts exactly, we must have been in the same class.

ondafarm
03-12-2007, 04:07 PM
For guys like Dye, Thome or Konerko, ST stats mean next to nothing. Those guys know what thye need to do to get ready for the season. And Ozzie and Walker seem to have them covered.

For the "little guys" like Iguchi, Pods, Erstad, etc. timing is very important and ST stats mean a bit more. As long as they aren't hitting .086 or less, I don't worry. Fielding on the other hand could be a worry, if they have a horrible spring. I haven't heard anything about that.

For short-timers like BA, getting their confidence up is an important thing. Hitting a homer, keeping a decent average and fielding solidly are all important aspects of that.

For rookies hoping to make the team, ST stats mean a whole lot. Boone Logan had a heck of a ST last year and it got him up way too early, IMHO. OTOH, he may be better for it now.

SBSoxFan
03-12-2007, 04:11 PM
For rookies hoping to make the team, ST stats mean a whole lot. Boone Logan had a heck of a ST last year and it got him up way too early, IMHO. OTOH, he may be better for it now.

Ozuna made the team in '05 due to a lights-out spring training. Ditto Logan last year. It appears Logan is repeating his excellent spring. So, is Logan in? Also, does BA's recent surge begin to put to rest him being sent down/Erstad starting in CF/Rowand II?

soxrme
03-12-2007, 04:46 PM
I think we would regret not keeping BA. His defense is amazing, and his bat will come around in due time.
Tori Hunter is an amazing center fielder, BA is good

Sargeant79
03-12-2007, 04:54 PM
Tori Hunter is an amazing center fielder, BA is good

I am not a scout, but I think that if we're talking strictly defense, Torii isn't quite as good as he once was.

Torii Hunter 5 years ago > Brian Anderson

Now, I'd take Anderson's glove over almost any other CF in baseball.

JermaineDye05
03-12-2007, 05:18 PM
did Iguchi always struggle in ST, I know he had trouble hitting lower in the order last season in ST. I don't remember much of his ST in 2005, but right now he's hitting .087. Anyone else worried about that? I don't know how many AB's Iguchi has had so far this spring so it could be not as bad as I thought.

ondafarm
03-12-2007, 05:41 PM
Tori Hunter is an amazing center fielder, BA is good

I know this debate has been hashed before, but I'd take Anderson over Hunter in terms of strictly defense.

jabrch
03-12-2007, 06:45 PM
Tori Hunter is an amazing center fielder, BA is good

If you move Torii Hunter away for the trashbag and put him in a different field, and take away the SportsCenter factor, Torii Hunter is not quite as good. His arm is mediocre for a CF. Strictly defense - I'd take BA over Hunter.

Madscout
03-12-2007, 08:23 PM
Tori Hunter is an amazing center fielder, BA is good

And you say this after what happened in the playoffs? Smart CFs don't **** up that play. They may not make the catch, but they don't **** it up the way he did.

Domeshot17
03-12-2007, 08:55 PM
If you move Torii Hunter away for the trashbag and put him in a different field, and take away the SportsCenter factor, Torii Hunter is not quite as good. His arm is mediocre for a CF. Strictly defense - I'd take BA over Hunter.

Im not disagreeing too much here. I think Anderson still has a lot to learn in Center. He has great reactions and reads the ball well, but its not like he has anything near a good arm. His arm strength is average to slightly above average and his decision making on his throws is sub par (which is common for rookies). But I know last year plenty of us got kind of frusterated with him missing cut off men and throwing home without a chance of getting the guy out with his arm allowing the hitter to move into 2nd.

Brians D and range is about as good as it gets. He doesn't have the arm that an elite defender does, but his ball instincts are great. But he needs to get a clue on how to hit. If Sweeney has a good first half in triple A and Brian continues to hit below the mendoza line, The drop off from Brian's D to Sweeney's isnt bad enough to out weigh the major jump from Brian's offensive ability to Sweeney's.

Right Now Brian reminds me of the former Cubs/Twins IF Augie Ojeda. The guy was the best middle IF defensively I had ever seen. The guy could dive and get to anything. But he barely hit above .200 and never could keep a job because of it.

Domeshot17
03-12-2007, 08:57 PM
And you say this after what happened in the playoffs? Smart CFs don't **** up that play. They may not make the catch, but they don't **** it up the way he did.


I agree the play was dumb, but it didn't cost Minnesota that series. The entire team did. Hunter is still in the top 4 CF in the game today. We all love to hate on him mostly because he is on the twinkies, but if Kenny landed him in one of the few times he made a push for him, we would all be singing a different tune.

I think Hunter makes a living out of diving for balls after he catches them, but he has incredible timing and great range.

Daver
03-12-2007, 08:57 PM
Im not disagreeing too much here. I think Anderson still has a lot to learn in Center. He has great reactions and reads the ball well, but its not like he has anything near a good arm. His arm strength is average to slightly above average and his decision making on his throws is sub par (which is common for rookies). But I know last year plenty of us got kind of frusterated with him missing cut off men and throwing home without a chance of getting the guy out with his arm allowing the hitter to move into 2nd.

Brians D and range is about as good as it gets. He doesn't have the arm that an elite defender does, but his ball instincts are great. But he needs to get a clue on how to hit. If Sweeney has a good first half in triple A and Brian continues to hit below the mendoza line, The drop off from Brian's D to Sweeney's isnt bad enough to out weigh the major jump from Brian's offensive ability to Sweeney's.

Right Now Brian reminds me of the former Cubs/Twins IF Augie Ojeda. The guy was the best middle IF defensively I had ever seen. The guy could dive and get to anything. But he barely hit above .200 and never could keep a job because of it.


He was a pitcher in college and you're saying his arm is subpar?

FarWestChicago
03-12-2007, 09:13 PM
He was a pitcher in college and you're saying his arm is subpar?:D:

maurice
03-12-2007, 09:22 PM
Anderson has a very good arm.

I've mentioned this before, but doubters should watch him warming up before the inning starts next time they attend a game. In particular, watch him finish by throwing the ball on a line flat-footed from RCF toward the LF bullpen.

JB98
03-13-2007, 12:31 AM
I know this debate has been hashed before, but I'd take Anderson over Hunter in terms of strictly defense.

That's a little bit of a homer pick, don't you think? I agree with people who say Torii has lost a step He has. But I'm not quite ready to move Anderson past him yet.

And you know who else belongs in the discussion? Sizemore. Thank God he screwed up that play in KC two years ago, but other than that, he's impressed me.

ondafarm
03-13-2007, 01:16 AM
That's a little bit of a homer pick, don't you think? I agree with people who say Torii has lost a step He has. But I'm not quite ready to move Anderson past him yet.

And you know who else belongs in the discussion? Sizemore. Thank God he screwed up that play in KC two years ago, but other than that, he's impressed me.

I saw Sizemore a bit in the minors and of course with Cleveland and I'd rate him just above average defensively. Great hitter, but not a devastatingly good defensive outfielder.

No, I don't call it a homer pick at all. Anderson's range factor was above Hunter's last year and for most of last season was above Hunter's typical of previous five years.

Hunter has a couple of huge advantages playing in the baggy. Mostly, the turf cuts down a lot (10-15%) on groundball outs, meaning the outfielders get extra chances. Also , USCF has a much smaller outfield territory than the dome, which means more balls are in play, especially for the CF in the dome. Also, if you watch the two men play, you see that Hunter plays much deeper than Anderson. Those web-gem catches at the wall means Hunter is not taking away singles, which is really more important for defense.

Last year's range factors stack up like this: BA 2.87, Sizemore 2.71, Granderson 2.66 Hunter 2.56, V Wells 2.34.

Anderson is a better defensive player than any of these other guys, who get a lot more props. Don't fall for the WebGems effect. The best defense doesn't look flashy and never makes it to ESPN.

wdelaney72
03-13-2007, 10:54 AM
The best defense doesn't look flashy and never makes it to ESPN.

Well said.

ChiTownTrojan
03-13-2007, 11:12 AM
Intersting Torri Hunter story....

During spring trining 2005, I was listening to sports radio in L.A. (where I live), and Torri Hunter came on. I think it was the Big Show with Mason and Ireland. Anyways, the hosts were talking to him about the Twins outlook for the next season, how they've owned that division the past few years, etc. They were talking about the other teams in the division, when one of the hosts brought up the Sox and started making fun of them. Something to the tune of, "well, you won't have to worry about those guys" and laughting at them. Hunter's response? "I wouldn't count those guys out. They're playing baseball the way it's supposed to be played under Ozzie Guillen and I think it's gong to be a fight to the finish." We all know how that season turned out....

jabrch
03-13-2007, 11:16 AM
Im not disagreeing too much here. I think Anderson still has a lot to learn in Center. He has great reactions and reads the ball well, but its not like he has anything near a good arm. His arm strength is average to slightly above average and his decision making on his throws is sub par (which is common for rookies). But I know last year plenty of us got kind of frusterated with him missing cut off men and throwing home without a chance of getting the guy out with his arm allowing the hitter to move into 2nd.

Brians D and range is about as good as it gets. He doesn't have the arm that an elite defender does, but his ball instincts are great. But he needs to get a clue on how to hit. If Sweeney has a good first half in triple A and Brian continues to hit below the mendoza line, The drop off from Brian's D to Sweeney's isnt bad enough to out weigh the major jump from Brian's offensive ability to Sweeney's.

Right Now Brian reminds me of the former Cubs/Twins IF Augie Ojeda. The guy was the best middle IF defensively I had ever seen. The guy could dive and get to anything. But he barely hit above .200 and never could keep a job because of it.

Point taken - but I'd add the counterpoint that BA was not below the Mendoza line in the second half when he hit .244 or July/August when he hit .312/.274. And it isn't there now in ST. Brian has hit at every level, and been effective doing it. It's a good bet that he will be an average hitter, at worst. The question is when... Ojeda was never a good hitter - and had no offensive potential. I'd also say you are underrating BAs arm, for a CF it is well above average. And finally, Sweeney didn't tear it up in his cup of coffee last season either - there's no reason to believe he's any further offensively than BA. (I like having both of them as I think both have potential to be regulars in the next few years)

GoSox2K3
03-13-2007, 11:27 AM
Brians D and range is about as good as it gets. He doesn't have the arm that an elite defender does, but his ball instincts are great. But he needs to get a clue on how to hit. If Sweeney has a good first half in triple A and Brian continues to hit below the mendoza line, The drop off from Brian's D to Sweeney's isnt bad enough to out weigh the major jump from Brian's offensive ability to Sweeney's.

Right Now Brian reminds me of the former Cubs/Twins IF Augie Ojeda. The guy was the best middle IF defensively I had ever seen. The guy could dive and get to anything. But he barely hit above .200 and never could keep a job because of it.

If by "right now" you mean June 10, 2006 then yes, I agree with you.

JorgeFabregas
03-13-2007, 03:09 PM
Does Augie have a chance at the Dbacks' roster?

JermaineDye05
03-13-2007, 05:11 PM
so do you guys think today is when we find out who the 5th starter or that today's start will be the determining factor in who makes it and who doesn't between Floyd and Danks.

soxrme
03-13-2007, 05:20 PM
And you say this after what happened in the playoffs? Smart CFs don't **** up that play. They may not make the catch, but they don't **** it up the way he did.
Quit drinking BA kool-aid. He is good but not as good as Hunter.