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thomas35forever
03-08-2007, 12:19 AM
If anyone just saw SportsCenter, Steve Phillips said Ozzie's on the 'Hot Seat' because people are now questioning him and all the luster from 2005 is gone. C'mon, you gotta be kidding me. There's no way Ozzie will be gone this year or next year unless something REALLY bad happens to this club.

SpartanSoxFan
03-08-2007, 12:20 AM
Probably the dumbest segment of Hot Seat I've seen on the Eastern Seaboard Programing Network...Steve Phillips claims that Ozzie Guillen is on the hot seat if the Sox "underachieve again." He failed to elaborate on what that means exactly. I know, I know, consider the source and all that, but still...what a crock of ****. :rolleyes:

oeo
03-08-2007, 12:37 AM
Probably the dumbest segment of Hot Seat I've seen on the Eastern Seaboard Programing Network...Steve Phillips claims that Ozzie Guillen is on the hot seat if the Sox "underachieve again." He failed to elaborate on what that means exactly. I know, I know, consider the source and all that, but still...what a crock of ****. :rolleyes:

Steve Phillips is a moron. There's a reason he's not the GM of the Mets anymore.

drewcifer
03-08-2007, 12:40 AM
If anyone just saw SportsCenter, Steve Phillips said Ozzie's on the 'Hot Seat' because people are now questioning him and all the luster from 2005 is gone. C'mon, you gotta be kidding me. There's no way Ozzie will be gone this year or next year unless something REALLY bad happens to this club.

:rolleyes: - Steve Phillips. The ultimate baseball ****up.

drewcifer
03-08-2007, 12:45 AM
Steve Phillips is a moron. There's a reason he's not the GM of the Mets anymore.

Agreed. Completely inept.

SABRSox
03-08-2007, 12:46 AM
With Ozzie, all it's going to take is one really horrible comment.

ondafarm
03-08-2007, 12:50 AM
Off the top of my head I can't name a manager with less likelihood of being fired in the major leagues.


Okay, one, Jim Leyland, two Tony LaRussa. Even Lou Pinella is IMHO closer to a hot seat than Ozzie. If the Flubs don't improve at all this year in the standings and the Sox return to 90 wins, who is more likely to go?

WhiteSox5187
03-08-2007, 01:05 AM
Off the top of my head I can't name a manager with less likelihood of being fired in the major leagues.


Okay, one, Jim Leyland, two Tony LaRussa. Even Lou Pinella is IMHO closer to a hot seat than Ozzie. If the Flubs don't improve at all this year in the standings and the Sox return to 90 wins, who is more likely to go?
Pinella isn't going anywhere. Jim Hendry will be taking Steve Phillips' place in the ESPN studios though.

QCIASOXFAN
03-08-2007, 02:38 AM
I used to have a clip saved of Steve Philips saying that Sox fans are going to cry in their beer in 2005 because the team was a fluke. This guy should become a meteorologist for how much he is wrong.:redneck Ohhh wait he works at ESPN already.:D: Sorry.

MisterB
03-08-2007, 03:07 AM
To paraphrase:

:farmer
"Steve Phillips and his goatee obviously haven't seen the Sox play."

jabrch
03-08-2007, 07:54 AM
If anyone just saw SportsCenter, Steve Phillips said Ozzie's on the 'Hot Seat' because people are now questioning him and all the luster from 2005 is gone. C'mon, you gotta be kidding me. There's no way Ozzie will be gone this year or next year unless something REALLY bad happens to this club.

The only way Ozzie is gone is if his yapper gets the best of him and he says something even dumber than some of the stuff he already has said. I doubt it happens.

Jurr
03-08-2007, 08:06 AM
:rolleyes: - Steve Phillips. The ultimate baseball ****up.
Mo Vaughn.
Jeromy Burnitz.

'Nuff said.

DumpJerry
03-08-2007, 08:27 AM
Off the top of my head I can't name a manager with less likelihood of being fired in the major leagues.


Okay, one, Jim Leyland, two Tony LaRussa. Even Lou Pinella is IMHO closer to a hot seat than Ozzie. If the Flubs don't improve at all this year in the standings and the Sox return to 90 wins, who is more likely to go?
Return to 90 wins? Did I dream up the 90-72 season last year? The 99-63 season the year before?

Jurr
03-08-2007, 08:29 AM
I was wondering where Ozzie's winning percentage ranks all time? He's gotta be up there, though his sample (3 seasons) isn't huge.

PeteWard
03-08-2007, 09:21 AM
Yeah well, ESPN does not have the exclusive copyright on stupidity. There were a dozen or so posters here last year who wanted Ozzie gone. Some started to say so in July.:mad:

soxtalker
03-08-2007, 09:21 AM
If anyone just saw SportsCenter, Steve Phillips said Ozzie's on the 'Hot Seat' because people are now questioning him and all the luster from 2005 is gone. C'mon, you gotta be kidding me. There's no way Ozzie will be gone this year or next year unless something REALLY bad happens to this club.

Well, but maybe your last point is the one that we should take from Phillips' comments. None of us here think that it is very likely that the Sox are going to tank, but it is certainly possible -- a few key injuries, a couple of down years, and a couple of the other clubs in the division playing way above what we think they will. The pressure on Ozzie and Kenny would be enormous. And the chances of Ozzie making a few comments that could trigger trouble in the media are, well, not exactly low.

PKalltheway
03-08-2007, 10:02 AM
What Steve Phillips said about Ozzie was dumb, even for ESPN. Oh wait, there were those "fake" press conferences that they tried to hold last year...:o: :rolleyes:

russ99
03-08-2007, 10:10 AM
I have to wonder if there's a Mariotti-led smear campaign among the media to get Ozzie fired...

The only way Ozzie gets fired is the same reason Ditka got fired - if the team tanks, and even then it might take 2 seasons.

I can't see Ozzie saying anything stupider than he's already said, and he also swears like a sailor!

skobabe8
03-08-2007, 10:24 AM
I used to have a clip saved of Steve Philips saying that Sox fans are going to cry in their beer in 2005 because the team was a fluke. This guy should become a meteorologist for how much he is wrong.:redneck Ohhh wait he works at ESPN already.:D: Sorry.

You're talking about Jeff Brantley, the real #1 moron. Philips is a close second IMO.

spiffie
03-08-2007, 10:34 AM
Ozzie worries me because he's the sort of guy who I could easily envision things snowballing on, especially if the team has some bad luck. If the team is struggling due to injuries or something totally unforeseen, and then Ozzie comes out and says something stupid/wildly offensive that combination could be a problem. 90-win Ozzie is pretty much okay as long as he stays within the barest bounds of decency. 75-win Ozzie would be much harder for the organization to put up with the heat he could bring should something go down. But I highly doubt such a thing happens. He's not stupid, and he knows that he needs to keep a little closer to the vest, especially around media types.

infohawk
03-08-2007, 10:39 AM
Alright Mr. Phillips, the Sox haven't had a losing season since Ozzie's been at the helm. I'm not saying that's just because of Ozzie, but they have won more games than they have lost since 2004. The last two seasons, the Sox have won 99 and 90 games respectively. Over the last three years, they've averaged about 92 wins a season. And by the way, Mr. Phillips, they won the 2005 World Series. Yeah, sure, if the Sox don't make the playoffs in 2007, Ozzie's gone. How about Eric Wedge, Mr. Phillips? The Cleveland Indians are well within their "window" and have yet to even make the playoffs. Why would Ozzie be fired for not making the playoffs before a guy like Wedge? What, pray tell, is Steve Phillips thinking?

oeo
03-08-2007, 03:37 PM
Well, but maybe your last point is the one that we should take from Phillips' comments. None of us here think that it is very likely that the Sox are going to tank, but it is certainly possible -- a few key injuries, a couple of down years, and a couple of the other clubs in the division playing way above what we think they will. The pressure on Ozzie and Kenny would be enormous. And the chances of Ozzie making a few comments that could trigger trouble in the media are, well, not exactly low.

Incorrect...there are plenty here that think this team will tank.

Ozzie worries me because he's the sort of guy who I could easily envision things snowballing on, especially if the team has some bad luck. If the team is struggling due to injuries or something totally unforeseen, and then Ozzie comes out and says something stupid/wildly offensive that combination could be a problem. 90-win Ozzie is pretty much okay as long as he stays within the barest bounds of decency. 75-win Ozzie would be much harder for the organization to put up with the heat he could bring should something go down. But I highly doubt such a thing happens. He's not stupid, and he knows that he needs to keep a little closer to the vest, especially around media types.

Ozzie went through a team struggling through injuries in 2004, and I don't remember this stuff happening. Why do so many people have the idea that Ozzie is such a bad guy? He doesn't come off that way at all. Just if you're going to say anything about the White Sox, you're going to hear about it from him. He's not a ****ing psycho, geesh.

And once again, Ozzie has never said anything that would even get him close to fired, so where do you people think up these hypothetical situations? I can do that too...what if the Tigers are really struggling, and Leyland runs out of cigarettes; holy ****, that'll be the end of him.

spiffie
03-08-2007, 04:52 PM
Incorrect...there are plenty here that think this team will tank.



Ozzie went through a team struggling through injuries in 2004, and I don't remember this stuff happening. Why do so many people have the idea that Ozzie is such a bad guy? He doesn't come off that way at all. Just if you're going to say anything about the White Sox, you're going to hear about it from him. He's not a ****ing psycho, geesh.

And once again, Ozzie has never said anything that would even get him close to fired, so where do you people think up these hypothetical situations? I can do that too...what if the Tigers are really struggling, and Leyland runs out of cigarettes; holy ****, that'll be the end of him.
Ozzie's not a bad guy at all. The media sure loves to make it sound like he's terrible though. And because of that anything he says will always be blown up. When he mocked A-Rod last year about the WBC the media made it sound like he was being cruel and racist and everything else they could find. When he said what he said about the Windsock that became a major problem. The media loves to try and bait Ozzie, and Ozzie is an honest man. Honest people get in trouble.

The difference in your scenario and this is that at no point has Dave Dombrowski ever had to make a statement like this:

"The simple fact is we have seen this movie before," Williams told ESPN in his first public remarks on the situation. "If it continues on, the likelihood [increases] that maybe one day I'll have to walk into the office and deliver some bad news and announce a new manager. That's just the reality of the situation."

I agree he is not in any imminent danger. But I worry about him because so many people have their knives out for Ozzie and would give anything to bring him down.

UserNameBlank
03-08-2007, 05:56 PM
Ozzie's not a bad guy at all. The media sure loves to make it sound like he's terrible though. And because of that anything he says will always be blown up. When he mocked A-Rod last year about the WBC the media made it sound like he was being cruel and racist and everything else they could find. When he said what he said about the Windsock that became a major problem. The media loves to try and bait Ozzie, and Ozzie is an honest man. Honest people get in trouble.

The difference in your scenario and this is that at no point has Dave Dombrowski ever had to make a statement like this:



I agree he is not in any imminent danger. But I worry about him because so many people have their knives out for Ozzie and would give anything to bring him down.

It's funny because every time the Sox play on national television whoever is broadcasting always talks about how Ozzie is quotable and a media favorite since he always gives them something to print. They say they like Ozzie, and then are the first ones to overreact to the same comments they were hoping Ozzie would make.

ondafarm
03-08-2007, 05:57 PM
Return to 90 wins? Did I dream up the 90-72 season last year? The 99-63 season the year before?

Sorry, I could have written that better.

If the Sox return with 90 wins and the Flubs have their same season record (66-96) as last year, who is in bigger trouble, Pinella or Guillen. I think Pinella, although I seriously doubt he goes anywhere. Then again, with the money the Flubs coughed up, my mother would be able to manage at least 70 wins out of the team.

oeo
03-08-2007, 05:59 PM
The difference in your scenario and this is that at no point has Dave Dombrowski ever had to make a statement like this:

Kenny had no choice but to say that. What was he going to say? Keep calling people ****? He had to get the media off their backs; I don't think he will ever fire Ozzie.

Hokiesox
03-08-2007, 07:34 PM
I used to have a clip saved of Steve Philips saying that Sox fans are going to cry in their beer in 2005 because the team was a fluke. This guy should become a meteorologist for how much he is wrong.:redneck Ohhh wait he works at ESPN already.:D: Sorry.

I cried in my beer after the 2005 season.

captainclutch24
03-08-2007, 07:48 PM
Steve Phillips is an idiot. Another 90 win season won't get anyone fired.

gf2020
03-08-2007, 07:57 PM
I actually like Phillips more than most of the ESPN talking heads. He essentially apologized for being so wrong in early and talked us up on Baseball Tonight on Sunday. Ozzie being on the hot seat is a stupid answer, but that segment is designed to say something that isn't the obvious answer. I mean, who care about the managers of the Rockies or Royals or whatever? Phillips went with the sexy, showy answer and that sucks, but he is usually pretty fair handed.

oeo
03-08-2007, 08:07 PM
I actually like Phillips more than most of the ESPN talking heads. He essentially apologized for being so wrong in early and talked us up on Baseball Tonight on Sunday. Ozzie being on the hot seat is a stupid answer, but that segment is designed to say something that isn't the obvious answer. I mean, who care about the managers of the Rockies or Royals or whatever? Phillips went with the sexy, showy answer and that sucks, but he is usually pretty fair handed.

Why not say someone like Eric Wedge? I'd have to think if the Indians only win 75 games or whatever they did last year, he's on the hot seat. Not Ozzie, who's never won less than 86 (would have been more had Frank and Maggs not gotten injured), and has won a championship in only three years of managerial experience.

A. Cavatica
03-08-2007, 09:03 PM
I don't want to beat a dead horse, but all you people who think Ozzie is a sacred cow are deluding yourselves. He did a bad job managing in 2006 -- there can be no excuse for running Mackowiak out to center, over and over -- but he gets a mulligan because of 2005. But he can't live off that forever, not when Reinsdorf is spending $100 million a year. If 2007 is as frustrating a season as 2006, he will indeed be on the hot seat. And if the Sox drop to 81 wins? He'll be gone faster than you can say "Billy Martin", and deservedly so.

UserNameBlank
03-08-2007, 09:20 PM
I don't want to beat a dead horse, but all you people who think Ozzie is a sacred cow are deluding yourselves. He did a bad job managing in 2006 -- there can be no excuse for running Mackowiak out to center, over and over -- but he gets a mulligan because of 2005. But he can't live off that forever, not when Reinsdorf is spending $100 million a year. If 2007 is as frustrating a season as 2006, he will indeed be on the hot seat. And if the Sox drop to 81 wins? He'll be gone faster than you can say "Billy Martin", and deservedly so.

Anyone who is at the helm of a team with the kind of rotation we had in 06 is going to catch criticism for the team underperforming. Still, if you are going to blame Ozzie for stuff he has no control over - like Javy's inconsistency, Garland's terrible 1st half, Buehrle's terrible 2nd half, Jose's injury problems during the second half, Politte's arm falling off, Neal's fall off a cliff, etc. - you have to also give him credit for the other things he can't control - like the awesome offense we had last year.

Ozzie's team couldn't execute the fundamentals last year but it wasn't for lack of practice. Also, there weren't many opportunities to do so to begin with since the bullpen couldn't hold a lead. Ozzie used Mackowiak too much IMO but Anderson wasn't hitting and his GM didn't pick up a backup CF, so Ozzie was going to be heavily criticized no matter who he started out there. And for the bullpen, he made some interesting moves out there that were again heavily criticized but the fact is he had three guys all year that were solid just about every time out. No one else could be counted on, but still Ozzie had to use who he had.

If the Sox tank it will be because of several injuries to key players. If Iguchi, Pods, Erstad, Uribe, AJ, a reliever, and one of our starters all go down we have insurance for that already on the team so we wouldn't be hurt anywhere near as badly as most other teams would. If this team tanks it will because at least two and probably three of Jose/Jon/Mark/Javy/Thome/Konerko/Dye/Crede go down for the year. If that happens Ozzie will not be to blame and only idiot Steve Phillips people are going to blame Ozzie for it.

FarWestChicago
03-08-2007, 10:02 PM
I don't want to beat a dead horse, but all you people who think Ozzie is a sacred cow are deluding yourselves.It's much, much more likely you aren't anywhere near as smart as you think you are. Get off you constant high horse. :rolleyes:

A. Cavatica
03-08-2007, 10:09 PM
Still, if you are going to blame Ozzie for stuff he has no control over - like Javy's inconsistency, Garland's terrible 1st half, Buehrle's terrible 2nd half, Jose's injury problems during the second half, Politte's arm falling off, Neal's fall off a cliff, etc. - you have to also give him credit for the other things he can't control - like the awesome offense we had last year.

Ozzie's team couldn't execute the fundamentals last year but it wasn't for lack of practice. Also, there weren't many opportunities to do so to begin with since the bullpen couldn't hold a lead. Ozzie used Mackowiak too much IMO but Anderson wasn't hitting and his GM didn't pick up a backup CF, so Ozzie was going to be heavily criticized no matter who he started out there. And for the bullpen, he made some interesting moves out there that were again heavily criticized but the fact is he had three guys all year that were solid just about every time out. No one else could be counted on, but still Ozzie had to use who he had.

That's crap. Ozzie's the manager; it's his job to find a way to control these things, or at least adjust to them. If someone can't bunt, then don't bunt. If your starters are stinking up the joint, then get the stud prospect you brought north as the 'sixth starter' some spot starts, or at least pull them before they blow the game the same way they did last week. If your CF can't hit but catches everything in sight and isn't costing you games, and you don't have a viable option, just let him play; you have more than enough offense. If you only have three reliable arms in the bullpen (which is more than many clubs, by the way) and one of the other guys has looked good getting an out in the sixth, let that guy pitch to another batter or two.

A. Cavatica
03-08-2007, 10:10 PM
It's much, much more likely you aren't anywhere near as smart as you think you are. Get off you constant high horse. :rolleyes:

That's true too. :D:

Brian26
03-08-2007, 10:34 PM
To paraphrase:

:farmer
"Steve Phillips and his goatee obviously haven't seen the Sox play."

I'll never forget Opening Day 2005. Farmer harped on this for three innings.

thomas35forever
03-08-2007, 11:40 PM
Why not say someone like Eric Wedge? I'd have to think if the Indians only win 75 games or whatever they did last year, he's on the hot seat. Not Ozzie, who's never won less than 83 (would have been more had Frank and Maggs not gotten injured), and has won a championship in only three years of managerial experience.
Fixed it for you.

JB98
03-09-2007, 12:11 AM
That's crap. Ozzie's the manager; it's his job to find a way to control these things, or at least adjust to them. If someone can't bunt, then don't bunt. If your starters are stinking up the joint, then get the stud prospect you brought north as the 'sixth starter' some spot starts, or at least pull them before they blow the game the same way they did last week. If your CF can't hit but catches everything in sight and isn't costing you games, and you don't have a viable option, just let him play; you have more than enough offense. If you only have three reliable arms in the bullpen (which is more than many clubs, by the way) and one of the other guys has looked good getting an out in the sixth, let that guy pitch to another batter or two.

In 2005, we had the third-best pitching staff in baseball. Last season, we fell to 21st, and it was essentially the same guys who led us to a title. Despite horse**** pitching, we still won 90 games. I don't think Ozzie is a problem. Does he make moves that aggravate me from time to time? Of course, but it was bad pitching, not bad managing, that derailed us last season.

That's the way I look at it this season too. If Buerhle bounces back, Contreras stays healthy, Garland finds his consistency and Vazquez gets through the sixth inning, we'll be pretty damn good. If none of those things happen, we're screwed and there isn't a ****ing thing Ozzie or anyone else can do about it.

Hitmen77
03-09-2007, 12:49 AM
Ozzie reacts:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-070308soxbits,1,6820655.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines

gobears1987
03-09-2007, 12:56 AM
The only way Ozzie gets fired is the same reason Ditka got fired - if the team tanks, and even then it might take 2 seasons.


Ditka got fired because he wouldn't kiss Mike McCaksey's worthless ass.

WhiteSox5187
03-09-2007, 02:21 AM
The only thing that a manager is guarenteed upon taking a job is that someday he will be fired. Ozzie is safe this year, but there is going to come a point where the team sucks and he either quits or gets fired. Ozzie isn't going to be holding this job until death. Not unless he goes out and wins ten straight World Series Titles. Eventually EVERYONE (well almost everyone) here will be calling for Ozzie's head and asking for him to be fired. It might be in 2008 or it might be ten years down the road.

I think Kenny though, is in a way, on the hot seat. If Floyd and these other prospects don't turn out and we miss the playoffs and Garcia and McCarthy do reasonably well, there are going to be a lot of people asking why we made these trades. But that's for another thread.

UserNameBlank
03-09-2007, 05:45 PM
That's crap. Ozzie's the manager; it's his job to find a way to control these things, or at least adjust to them. If someone can't bunt, then don't bunt. If your starters are stinking up the joint, then get the stud prospect you brought north as the 'sixth starter' some spot starts, or at least pull them before they blow the game the same way they did last week. If your CF can't hit but catches everything in sight and isn't costing you games, and you don't have a viable option, just let him play; you have more than enough offense. If you only have three reliable arms in the bullpen (which is more than many clubs, by the way) and one of the other guys has looked good getting an out in the sixth, let that guy pitch to another batter or two.
Hello there, Terry Bevington! Where have you been?

Firstly, if a player who is supposed to be able to get a bunt down can not get a bunt down in a bunting situation you do NOT give up stressing the fundamentals. You still bunt, and you hope he gets it the next time.

For your 6th starter comments obviously referring to McCarthy, the guy was throwing gopher balls out of the bullpen. How was he the answer? And the worst pitcher of the second half by far was Buehrle, not anyone else, so he would have been the one to replace. Then again, any manager who removes his ace and starts a second year pitcher who has been giving up the longball at an alarming rate during the middle of a defending championship season has absolutely NO buisness managing a baseball game.

On Brian Anderson, I've already said this before and I'll say it again. Ozzie was going to be criticized no matter what he did. His GM didn't get him a backup CF who could hit, so it was either take the hit at the plate or take the hit on the field. There were times when Anderson might have been for valuable with this glove when the Sox were hitting and others when Mack might have been more valuable with his bat because the Sox weren't hitting. To say there was one clear correct answer there is assinine. KW should have made a deal but he didn't, maybe because he couldn't.

Ozzie always makes questionable moves in the pen because iof his love for lefty/righty matchups. BUT, look how successful Thornton was last year and Cotts in 2005 pitching mainly to left ahnded hitters. It is entirely possible that Ozzie used those guys correctly. And regarding your comments about our 3 valuable members of our pen being more than most other teams, that could not be more false. The Sox bullpen was one of the worst in all of baseball last year.

FarWestChicago
03-09-2007, 07:09 PM
Hello there, Terry Bevington! Where have you been?

Firstly, if a player who is supposed to be able to get a bunt down can not get a bunt down in a bunting situation you do NOT give up stressing the fundamentals. You still bunt, and you hope he gets it the next time.

For your 6th starter comments obviously referring to McCarthy, the guy was throwing gopher balls out of the bullpen. How was he the answer? And the worst pitcher of the second half by far was Buehrle, not anyone else, so he would have been the one to replace. Then again, any manager who removes his ace and starts a second year pitcher who has been giving up the longball at an alarming rate during the middle of a defending championship season has absolutely NO buisness managing a baseball game.

On Brian Anderson, I've already said this before and I'll say it again. Ozzie was going to be criticized no matter what he did. His GM didn't get him a backup CF who could hit, so it was either take the hit at the plate or take the hit on the field. There were times when Anderson might have been for valuable with this glove when the Sox were hitting and others when Mack might have been more valuable with his bat because the Sox weren't hitting. To say there was one clear correct answer there is assinine. KW should have made a deal but he didn't, maybe because he couldn't.

Ozzie always makes questionable moves in the pen because iof his love for lefty/righty matchups. BUT, look how successful Thornton was last year and Cotts in 2005 pitching mainly to left ahnded hitters. It is entirely possible that Ozzie used those guys correctly. And regarding your comments about our 3 valuable members of our pen being more than most other teams, that could not be more false. The Sox bullpen was one of the worst in all of baseball last year.Nice burn! You really exposed the genius Cavatica. :D:

A. Cavatica
03-10-2007, 09:23 PM
Hello there, Terry Bevington! Where have you been?

Firstly, if a player who is supposed to be able to get a bunt down can not get a bunt down in a bunting situation you do NOT give up stressing the fundamentals. You still bunt, and you hope he gets it the next time.

For your 6th starter comments obviously referring to McCarthy, the guy was throwing gopher balls out of the bullpen. How was he the answer? And the worst pitcher of the second half by far was Buehrle, not anyone else, so he would have been the one to replace. Then again, any manager who removes his ace and starts a second year pitcher who has been giving up the longball at an alarming rate during the middle of a defending championship season has absolutely NO buisness managing a baseball game.

On Brian Anderson, I've already said this before and I'll say it again. Ozzie was going to be criticized no matter what he did. His GM didn't get him a backup CF who could hit, so it was either take the hit at the plate or take the hit on the field. There were times when Anderson might have been for valuable with this glove when the Sox were hitting and others when Mack might have been more valuable with his bat because the Sox weren't hitting. To say there was one clear correct answer there is assinine. KW should have made a deal but he didn't, maybe because he couldn't.

Ozzie always makes questionable moves in the pen because iof his love for lefty/righty matchups. BUT, look how successful Thornton was last year and Cotts in 2005 pitching mainly to left ahnded hitters. It is entirely possible that Ozzie used those guys correctly. And regarding your comments about our 3 valuable members of our pen being more than most other teams, that could not be more false. The Sox bullpen was one of the worst in all of baseball last year.

Hey, watch it...you're insulting Bevington...

You can stress the fundamentals all you want, but you don't give up outs just to make a point. The players have to execute, but the manager has to put them in situations where they can execute.

I'll grant you that the way our staff sprang a new leak every couple of weeks forced McCarthy into shorter relief outings, and made it tougher to move him back to the rotation. However, since McCarthy got worse as his outings got shorter (and later in games), it's quite likely he would have performed better if moved back to his natural role. Having the underperforming-starter-of-the-month miss a turn and giving McCarthy a spot start would not have been criticized.

Even when Anderson was hitting .150, he wasn't costing us games as frequently and conspicuously as Mack did.

UserNameBlank
03-10-2007, 09:48 PM
Hey, watch it...you're insulting Bevington...

You can stress the fundamentals all you want, but you don't give up outs just to make a point. The players have to execute, but the manager has to put them in situations where they can execute.

I'll grant you that the way our staff sprang a new leak every couple of weeks forced McCarthy into shorter relief outings, and made it tougher to move him back to the rotation. However, since McCarthy got worse as his outings got shorter (and later in games), it's quite likely he would have performed better if moved back to his natural role. Having the underperforming-starter-of-the-month miss a turn and giving McCarthy a spot start would not have been criticized.

Even when Anderson was hitting .150, he wasn't costing us games as frequently and conspicuously as Mack did.

Bunting in a bunting situation has nothing to do with making a point. If there are runners on 1st and 2nd with nobody out, and you have a hitter coming up to the plate who has been struggling and is prone to the K and DP, you give up an out to advance both runners into scoring position. Similiarly, if there is ever any situation where the manager deems a bunt necessary, which is always going to be a nobody out situation unless a pitcher is at the plate, he is not just giving up an out. He is taking a chance that by advancing the runner the next two hitters will be able to drive him in, instead of taking the chance on the DP.

Again on McCarthy, who do you take out? Mark who has been the Sox best pitcher overall since he made his major league debut? Jose who, along with Johan Santana, had been the most dominant pitcher in baseball from the second half of '05 to the start of the second half of '06? Do you take out Garland or Javy who were pitching much better in the second half? Freddy who began pitching better after picking up a splitter?

All these guys are veterans. If the Sox were not in a defending championship season and instead were like 15 games out of the wildcard or something, that is when big changes take place, and even then, it would probably only be the result of an injury or a trade. But if Ozzie took any one of his veteran starters and put them in the pen while in the situation they were in last year, only then would Ozzie truly be on the "Hot Seat" and maybe looking for a new job.

Again, on Mack and Brian, Ozzie didn't have any other options because his GM didn't get him a backup CF with a bat. That said, while as a team going into the offseason after a disappointing year, you look at every possible area you can improve in. The Sox picked up Terrero and Erstad to help them in that area this year, but the fact is the CF debacle was in no way as dire of a situation as the bullpen. If Anderson played 162 games out there and hit like he did, there is no reason to think the Sox would have won the division.

Basically, every one of what you call Ozzie's shortcomings had absolutely no effect on the total outcome of last season. When the veteran starters you are couting on struggle and the bullpen becomes a massive liability, there is nothing any manager can do. It is all on the GM at that point, and even in Kenny's case, aside from picking up another LH reliever and a backup CF to start the season, he did the best job anyone could have asked for. The Sox started the 2006 season with two very small holes in comparison with the rest of MLB, and were touted by many - not just here, but even at the hated ESPN and elsewhere - as bar none the best team in baseball.

Tragg
03-10-2007, 10:20 PM
Ozzie reacts:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-070308soxbits,1,6820655.story?coll=cs-whitesox-headlines

That's what I don't like about Ozzie - he's got to react. Can't let anything slide.
Phillips isn't the brightest bulb in the socket, but he isn't mean-spirited. Let it go. Getting into a spitting match with a failed GM like Phillips is almost as senseless as getting into one with an all hype, no substance manager like Showalter (which Ozzie constantly did). Moronotti on the other hand is mean spirited. Yet Ozzie gets into a war with Moron that takes place exclusively on Moron's turf; a war which Ozzie can't possibly win (and he didn't, although Moron was in the wrong).

Taliesinrk
03-10-2007, 11:16 PM
That's what I don't like about Ozzie - he's got to react. Can't let anything slide.
Phillips isn't the brightest bulb in the socket, but he isn't mean-spirited. Let it go. Getting into a spitting match with a failed GM like Phillips is almost as senseless as getting into one with an all hype, no substance manager like Showalter (which Ozzie constantly did). Moronotti on the other hand is mean spirited. Yet Ozzie gets into a war with Moron that takes place exclusively on Moron's turf; a war which Ozzie can't possibly win (and he didn't, although Moron was in the wrong).


maybe so... but i got a good chuckle, nonetheless

chaotic8512
03-10-2007, 11:17 PM
This guy should become a meteorologist for how much he is wrong.

Come now, I can understand the cheap shot at him, but why the cheap shot on meteorologists? We're nowhere near as bad as him! :whiner:

:redneck

oeo
03-10-2007, 11:49 PM
That's what I don't like about Ozzie - he's got to react. Can't let anything slide.

That's one of the many reasons I love the guy. Someday people will learn to not ****talk him or the team. Especially Steve Phillips, that guy is a *****. I guarantee he never says another bad thing about Ozzie. He'll probably kiss his butt now.

Grzegorz
03-11-2007, 05:56 AM
That's one of the many reasons I love the guy. Someday people will learn to not ****talk him or the team.

If one of the goals for the organization is media exposure, then Ozzie is certainly a great front man to garner media exposure. Negative publicity is publicity and having an irascible front man is one way to guarantee such exposure.