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THE_HOOTER
03-18-2002, 09:24 AM
Well after watching two games on T.V. over the weekend, I have the following opinions:

1. The Sox have a great hitting lineup- maybe one of the best in both leagues. With Lofton healthy, our hitters can create a lot of movement and score runs in bunches. I think our lineup can do a lot of damage consistently.

2. On the flipside, our pitching is among the worst in baseball. Our starting rotation is horrible. Besides Buerhle and Ritchie, no one is good enough for any team to start. Parque, Glover, Garland, Barcelo, Howry, Wunsch, Osuna, Ginter, all can pitch well occasionally but over a full season an era of 5+ should be expected.

Due to our lack of pitching, we will lose 88 games this year. I know some of you will diasgree but please do not say these pitchers we get healthy in time.

Randar68
03-18-2002, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
Well after watching two games on T.V. over the weekend, I have the following opinions:

1. The Sox have a great hitting lineup- maybe one of the best in both leagues. With Lofton healthy, our hitters can create a lot of movement and score runs in bunches. I think our lineup can do a lot of damage consistently.

2. On the flipside, our pitching is among the worst in baseball. Our starting rotation is horrible. Besides Buerhle and Ritchie, no one is good enough for any team to start. Parque, Glover, Garland, Barcelo, Howry, Wunsch, Osuna, Ginter, all can pitch well occasionally but over a full season an era of 5+ should be expected.

Due to our lack of pitching, we will lose 88 games this year. I know some of you will diasgree but please do not say these pitchers we get healthy in time.




THE SKY IS FALLING!

cheeses_h_rice
03-18-2002, 11:39 AM
74-88, eh?

You *do* know that the Sox also play offense, don't you?

You *do* know that we play a buttload of games against AL Central opponents this year, don't you?

PaleHoseGeorge
03-18-2002, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
You *do* know that we play a buttload of games against AL Central opponents this year, don't you?

Bingo! In my mind, the single-greatest improvement in our playoff chances isn't from anything the Sox did, but the disintegration of the Indians and Twins.

I guess it's best to make the playoffs and take your chances from there. However, backing into a playoff spot is a bit too Cub-like for my tastes.

Next we'll be wearing "wild card champion" patches on our sleeves. Omigod!!!

:)

moochpuppy
03-18-2002, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by cheeses_h_rice
74-88, eh?

You *do* know that the Sox also play offense, don't you?

You *do* know that we play a buttload of games against AL Central opponents this year, don't you?

That's exactly right. It will be a blessing to be in this division this season and with the unbalanced schedule (which I love BTW):

19 games vs. Jndjans (13-6)
19 games vs. Twins (9-10)
19 games vs. Royals (16-3)
19 games vs. Tigirls (15-4)
Total: 53-23, .697

That's almost half the schedule, NTM games versus Tampa Bay, Baltimore, Flubbies, Expos and Marlins. I think you made a typo and meant to say this team will WIN at least 88 games.

czalgosz
03-18-2002, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


Next we'll be wearing "wild card champion" patches on our sleeves. Omigod!!!

:)

I don't have big expectations for this year - like you said, my prediction of an AL central title is based more on the weakness of the division than the strength of the Sox.

That said, there exists a core of talent that could make the Sox the best or one of the best teams in the AL in the next two years, unless KW panics and starts trading young talent for fading veterans.

If it were me running this team, I'd keep it as intact as possible, even if it meant waiting until next year to make the playoffs. I understand that a lot of people are getting frustrated and impatient with this team, but if you look at the talent that exists in the organization, the Sox could very well start dominating the AL beginning in 2003.

Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

FarWestChicago
03-18-2002, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by moochpuppy
I think you made a typo and meant to say this team will WIN at least 88 games. Well, he put 78 in his predictions. :smile:

voodoochile
03-18-2002, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


I don't have big expectations for this year - like you said, my prediction of an AL central title is based more on the weakness of the division than the strength of the Sox.

That said, there exists a core of talent that could make the Sox the best or one of the best teams in the AL in the next two years, unless KW panics and starts trading young talent for fading veterans.

If it were me running this team, I'd keep it as intact as possible, even if it meant waiting until next year to make the playoffs. I understand that a lot of people are getting frustrated and impatient with this team, but if you look at the talent that exists in the organization, the Sox could very well start dominating the AL beginning in 2003.

Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Okay Dennis - Is this your new gig since you got fired from MNF? :D:

Actually, I agree. I think 2003 will be the first year that the Sox will be serious pennant contenders. By then they should have 4 solid starters ready to go and a group of guys to fill the fifth slot with.

moochpuppy
03-18-2002, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
Well, he put 78 in his predictions. :smile:

Where can we make these predictions West?

FarWestChicago
03-18-2002, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by moochpuppy


Where can we make these predictions West? Well, there is the stuck thread here. There is the link on the forums home page. And there is a link in the forums news fader. :smile:

Ooops, I forgot the link on the site home page.

voodoochile
03-18-2002, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by moochpuppy


Where can we make these predictions West?

Right Here (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/predictions2002.php)

moochpuppy
03-18-2002, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
Well, there is the stuck thread here. There is the link on the forums home page. And there is a link in the forums news fader. :smile:



Uh.........yeah.....well, I KNEW that. :?: :D:

Thanks.

FarWestChicago
03-18-2002, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by moochpuppy


Uh.........yeah.....well, I KNEW that. :?: :D:

Thanks. LOL, sorry Mooch. I couldn't resist being a wise guy there. :smile:

THE_HOOTER
03-18-2002, 01:19 PM
I totally agree that 2003 look to be a great year for the Sox barring any unforseen injuries.

Rauch, Garland, Buehrle, Ritchie, and Parque should be a darn good rotation. There could be others to come to the front by then as well.

My point was this year we are depending on an awful lot of surgically repaired arms that need time to heal.

Back 1996? I believe we had the most feared lineup in baseball with Ventura, Thomas, and Belle. We scored a to of runs, but had the worst staff in baseball. I don't think we have the Worst staff, but certainly below average.

I don't think offense can carry a team consistently like pitching can. Offenses tend to become frustrated when leads are continually blown inning after inning. Also, I would imgaine our defense, which is below average, will suffer from our pitching as well.

I just want to win this year, and it looks bleak. With this offense, an average staff gets it done. I think ours is below average.

To be honest, I would feel a lot better with a Sean Lowe type in the bullpen. I don't understand how you trade three healthy arms for one when you have so many questions on your staff. Why couldn't he have traded Wells and one of our hitters?

Iwritecode
03-18-2002, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by FarWestChicago
Ooops, I forgot the link on the site home page.

Well geez, no wonder Mooch couldn't find it... :D:

FarWestChicago
03-18-2002, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Iwritecode


Well geez, no wonder Mooch couldn't find it... :D: LOL!!

cheeses_h_rice
03-18-2002, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
To be honest, I would feel a lot better with a Sean Lowe type in the bullpen. I don't understand how you trade three healthy arms for one when you have so many questions on your staff. Why couldn't he have traded Wells and one of our hitters?

I'd like to second this thought. I wasn't too attached to Kip, but Lowe was versatile and reliable in dual roles for this team. Glover may have to step into Sean's shoes this year if we are to stay in first.

Jerry_Manuel
03-18-2002, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz
but if you look at the talent that exists in the organization, the Sox could very well start dominating the AL beginning in 2003.

Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

I'm going to disagree and that's all I care to say about that.

bc2k
03-19-2002, 12:13 AM
Even with our dominating hitting, I'm not happy. We have a good chance of the playoffs this year, but we'll lose in the first round. The pitching, yes, especially with no number one pitcher. But even if we had Jeff Weaver, we wouldn't get past the first round because of the offense. This offense is fine for the regular season, but will be absolutely shut down come playoff time just like 2000. The offense has showed no signs of improvement for hitting playoff pitching. What was Thomas, 0 for 9? Yeah Frank, those shadows are to blame, especially the ones at Comiskey.

Jerry_Manuel
03-19-2002, 06:56 AM
Originally posted by bc2k
Even with our dominating hitting, I'm not happy. We have a good chance of the playoffs this year, but we'll lose in the first round. The pitching, yes, especially with no number one pitcher. But even if we had Jeff Weaver, we wouldn't get past the first round because of the offense. This offense is fine for the regular season, but will be absolutely shut down come playoff time just like 2000. The offense has showed no signs of improvement for hitting playoff pitching. What was Thomas, 0 for 9? Yeah Frank, those shadows are to blame, especially the ones at Comiskey.

Even if the Sox had dominating pitching they would lose in the first round. History has shown this franchise chokes in big games. Thomas admitted his swing was messed up, because he was trying to catch Glaus for the homerun title.

THE_HOOTER
03-19-2002, 09:02 AM
I think it's ridiculous to talk playoffs.

As of right now, this team cannot get anyone out. I know we'll be better than this, but will we be a lot better?

If our pitching does not dramatically improve, we are a below .500 team.

I would much rather depend on pitching than hitting.

Randar68
03-19-2002, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
I think it's ridiculous to talk playoffs.

As of right now, this team cannot get anyone out. I know we'll be better than this, but will we be a lot better?

If our pitching does not dramatically improve, we are a below .500 team.

I would much rather depend on pitching than hitting.

Did you not watch the 2000 Sox season?

Middle-of-the-pack pitching and nearly 1000 runs gets you 90+ wins in the regular season and an early exit in the playoffs. I'm not worried about the season, but I'm not expecting us to go anywhere in the playoffs unless Rauch or Malone have Roy Oswalt-like seasons

THE_HOOTER
03-19-2002, 10:06 AM
Yes, I did watch the 200o season.

Are you comparing this pitching staff to the staff of 2000?

Please tell me you're not. My whole point was we have below average pitching.

Randar68
03-19-2002, 10:36 AM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
Yes, I did watch the 200o season.

Are you comparing this pitching staff to the staff of 2000?

Please tell me you're not. My whole point was we have below average pitching.

2 good/solid starters with 3 unproven pitchers.

A bullpen full of young/unproven pitchers who had solid years.

Looking at the pitching staffs coming out of spring training in both years, I don't see a whole heck of a difference, no...

PANFIRECRACKER
03-19-2002, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by voodoochile


Okay Dennis - Is this your new gig since you got fired from MNF? :D:

Actually, I agree. I think 2003 will be the first year that the Sox will be serious pennant contenders. By then they should have 4 solid starters ready to go and a group of guys to fill the fifth slot with.

agreed. we're the 4th or 5th best team in the AL. Let's not trade any of next years starters which could make us competitve with the best in '03.

czalgosz
03-19-2002, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by Randar68


2 good/solid starters with 3 unproven pitchers.

A bullpen full of young/unproven pitchers who had solid years.

Looking at the pitching staffs coming out of spring training in both years, I don't see a whole heck of a difference, no...

Here is the staff the Sox broke camp with in 2000, with their 1999 stats -

Rotation -

Mike Sirotka (11-13, 4.00)
Kip Wells (4-1, 4.04)
Jim Parque (9-15, 5.13)
James Baldwin (12-13, 5.10)
Cal Eldred (2-8, 7.79)

Bullpen -

Kevin Beirne (none)
Sean Lowe (4-1, 3.67)
Scott Eyre (1-1, 7.56)
Bill Simas (6-3, 3.75)
Kelly Wunsch (none)
Keith Foulke (3-3, 2.22)
Bob Howry (5-3, 3.59)

Coming into the 2000 season, the bullpen looked okay, but the rotation was hardly confidence-inspiring. Noone (including all but the most optimistic Sox fans) thought that the Sox would do anything.

Of course, a lot went right for the Sox that year (Sirotka, Baldwin, and Parque all had career years, Wunsch emerged out of the bullpen, and only Sean Lowe had a bad year), and nothing says that will happen for the Sox this year.

Randar68
03-19-2002, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by czalgosz


Here is the staff the Sox broke camp with in 2000, with their 1999 stats -

Rotation -

Mike Sirotka (11-13, 4.00)
Kip Wells (4-1, 4.04)
Jim Parque (9-15, 5.13)
James Baldwin (12-13, 5.10)
Cal Eldred (2-8, 7.79)

Bullpen -

Kevin Beirne (none)
Sean Lowe (4-1, 3.67)
Scott Eyre (1-1, 7.56)
Bill Simas (6-3, 3.75)
Kelly Wunsch (none)
Keith Foulke (3-3, 2.22)
Bob Howry (5-3, 3.59)

Coming into the 2000 season, the bullpen looked okay, but the rotation was hardly confidence-inspiring. Noone (including all but the most optimistic Sox fans) thought that the Sox would do anything.

Of course, a lot went right for the Sox that year (Sirotka, Baldwin, and Parque all had career years, Wunsch emerged out of the bullpen, and only Sean Lowe had a bad year), and nothing says that will happen for the Sox this year.


Not to mention Buehrle and Barcelo were 2 of our best relievers in the second half, and 90% of people here hardly had a clue about who they were before the All-Star break...

RedPinStripes
03-19-2002, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by THE_HOOTER
I think it's ridiculous to talk playoffs.

As of right now, this team cannot get anyone out. I know we'll be better than this, but will we be a lot better?

If our pitching does not dramatically improve, we are a below .500 team.

I would much rather depend on pitching than hitting. http://media.theinsiders.com/Media/NFL/77_Mora2_AP_WilfredoLee.JPG
"Playoffs???? You wanna talk playoffs!!!!!!!!! We'll be lucky to win another god damned game!!!!!!!!!!"

guillen4life13
03-19-2002, 06:13 PM
<<Admin Edit>>

This message was deleted because of the use of profanity. Please don't do it again.

<</Admin Edit>>

Cheryl
03-19-2002, 06:49 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
<<Admin Edit>>

Please to do it again.

<</Admin Edit>>

I think maybe Admin needs to rephrase that.

PaleHoseGeorge
03-19-2002, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by Cheryl


I think maybe Admin needs to rephrase that.

LOL, don't cross a librarian!!!!

:gulp:

RedPinStripes
03-19-2002, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by guillen4life13
<<Admin Edit>>

This message was deleted because of the use of profanity. Please don't do it again.

<</Admin Edit>>

I missed it! Crap! If it was bad enough to get deleted, It had to be good. :D:

Cheryl
03-19-2002, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge


LOL, don't cross a librarian!!!!

:gulp:

I was just being the Grammar Police. It read like something off engrish.com.

chisoxt
03-20-2002, 05:57 AM
In my mind, the single-greatest improvement in our playoff chances isn't from anything the Sox did, but the disintegration of the Indians and Twins

Did I miss something PHG? Last I checked, the twins are still around and as far as I am concerned, are the team to beat in this division. Their starting pitching is strong, their defense is terrific and their every day line up isn't too shabby either. I am also afraid that the contraction talk will inspire their team even more ala the team depicted in the movie 'Major League'.

How many times do we have to go through the exercise of a major league baseball season to realize that you win with pitching and defense. Our defense sucks and our pitching is even worse. While we have a terrrific hitting club, good pitching will shut us down every time.

RedPinStripes
03-20-2002, 06:07 AM
Originally posted by chisoxt


Did I miss something PHG? Last I checked, the twins are still around and as far as I am concerned, are the team to beat in this division. Their starting pitching is strong, their defense is terrific and their every day line up isn't too shabby either. I am also afraid that the contraction talk will inspire their team even more ala the team depicted in the movie 'Major League'.

How many times do we have to go through the exercise of a major league baseball season to realize that you win with pitching and defense. Our defense sucks and our pitching is even worse. While we have a terrrific hitting club, good pitching will shut us down every time.

I'm not happy at all about the way the pitching has gone this spring, but i'm not going to get all wound up about it. Like kermit pointed out earlier. Texas led the spring last year in ERA . Tell me they had a good pitching staff.

I truly believe the loss of tom kelly will hurt the twins a lot. With the Sox' offense and decent pitching , they sould win that division with ease, but expect the same short stay in October unless we have few pitchers that really step up.

guillen4life13
03-20-2002, 05:10 PM
my bad sorry about that. this team does know how to tick me off sometimes, that's all. i'll censor myself in the future.

basically what i said was that pitching wins titles, not the best offense in the league. we have close to the worst pitching as it stands, so, while i think a rebound once the season starts is possible, if they don't get this together, we're doormats in the AL.

again, sorry about the profanity.

spaz
03-20-2002, 07:24 PM
I'm not as worried as everyone else, about the starting pitiching.
The starting rotation has some potental to be decent(medicore) , but probably the second best in the divsion. Which means a lot if you look at how many times we play the teams in our divsion. Looking at our starters we have
1 burele(no problems there)
2 richie (decent but not top tier materal)
3 garland (if he could just pitch strikes and not crap himself)
4 wright (in my opinion a future stud)
5 raunch (has some control issues but has not looked that bad)

Looking at 2002 what scares me is the bullpen outside of foulke, glover and pizro. besides these three pitchers we have pitchers that fall into two categories.

1 Band-aids - These would be the players that are injured or soon will be such as wunch, barcelo and parque these can almost pencil-in another appointment to Docter James Andrews in the near future.

2 buffet of stiffs - these are the guys that can't buy an out and are always find a way into the sox bullpen last year it was the embree and pulphier combo. This year one half will be howery the second half will be so other person that forces there way on the team ginter,wilde maybe. Basicly the 12 or 11 pitcher on the roster will fit here.

oh yeah the offence could score over a 1000 runs this year, and well that should; and probably be are ticket to the postseason.

I guess what I am trying to say is that starting pitching is half- way decent and the offence is good but the bullpen will lose us at least 12 games, maybe more. So all in all I predict we will win 88 games and which should be enough in this divsion.

Daver
03-20-2002, 07:28 PM
Hey,welcome aboard spaz.:redneck