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View Full Version : Forbes - Best General Manager in sports


Jaffar
03-05-2007, 12:05 PM
Link to article (http://www.forbes.com/business/2007/03/02/sports-greatest-gms-biz-cz_jg_0302gms.html)


http://images.forbes.com/media/assets/spacer_white.gif The general manager is the most influential and scrutinized position in sports because he decides how the owner's money is spent on players.
Forbes.com's first-ever proprietary look at GMs in the NFL, NBA, NHL and MLB grades each GM on two yardsticks. First, there's the performance (regular season winning percentage and postseason wins) during the GM's tenure versus the performance of his predecessor. Second, there's the GM's relative (to the league median) payroll compared with his predecessor's relative payroll.
Rank 8 Jerry Angelo 6 186 93 NFL Chicago Bears (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/30/06nfl_Chicago-Bears_301335.html)
Rank 10 John Paxson 3 179 76 NBA Chicago Bulls (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/32/biz_06nba_Chicago-Bulls_321267.html)
Rank 58 Jim Hendry 5 114 84 MLB Chicago Cubs (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/33/335092.html)
Rank 67 Ken Williams 6 115 58 MLB Chicago White Sox (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/33/334758.html)Funny thing is only one of these GM's has a championship.......

itsnotrequired
03-05-2007, 12:36 PM
They give more weight to how much the team improved (based on record) than payroll spending. Williams took over for an already winning team so his rank is lower because he hasn't "improved" the team. To make it more accurate, they should factor in guys like Williams that inherited a winner and kept it a winner.

He wins the payroll ranking though; best score of the bunch, all while maintaining a winning record and even picking up a championship..:cool:

Scottiehaswheels
03-05-2007, 12:36 PM
I draw some issue with this... if I am reading this correctly, Theo Epstein has kept the Red Sox payroll to within 14% of other teams relative to the market?

ma-gaga
03-05-2007, 12:41 PM
I agree with Deadspin's take on it. It's a great concept, but any GM list that starts off with Kevin McHale at #1 has got to change their analysis parameters.

McHale has made some good moves in his tenure, but the majority of his "value" was taking, developing, and retaining Kevin Garnett.

:cool:

Jaffar
03-05-2007, 12:43 PM
I draw some issue with this... if I am reading this correctly, Theo Epstein has kept the Red Sox payroll to within 14% of other teams relative to the market?

Something about thier numbers definately seem off to say the least.

Scottiehaswheels
03-05-2007, 12:46 PM
Something about thier numbers definately seem off to say the least.No kidding... and Cashman only scored a 78? Aside from the Cubs and Red Cubs, who else has astronomically shot up market prices in the past 5 years?

itsnotrequired
03-05-2007, 12:52 PM
I draw some issue with this... if I am reading this correctly, Theo Epstein has kept the Red Sox payroll to within 14% of other teams relative to the market?

His score of 94 means he is spending 6% less than his predecessor when compared to the median. So he can increase payroll but as long as his percentage doesn't exceed the league percentage increase, it appears as if he is containing spending increases. Which is true but Theo took over a team that already had a $100+ million payroll.

In hindsight, KW has been the WORST in terms of containing salary but that is only because Schueler didn't spend any money.

AuroraSoxFan
03-05-2007, 12:55 PM
McHale as #1??? Unreal. They did make 8 playoff appearances as the article said. but they only made it past the 1st round once! Also, I am as big a Bears fan as anyone. But Angelo has been there 6 years. 3 of the 6 were LOSING seasons. Shouldn't be in the top 10. Based on improvement alone he should be there since he took them from a doormat to top tier team, but overall, no way.

itsnotrequired
03-05-2007, 12:57 PM
McHale as #1??? Unreal. They did make 8 playoff appearances as the article said. but they only made it past the 1st round once! Also, I am as big a Bears fan as anyone. But Angelo has been there 6 years. 3 of the 6 were LOSING seasons. Shouldn't be in the top 10. Based on improvement alone he should be there since he took them from a doormat to top tier team, but overall, no way.

Based on their criteria, he is a #1. Now whether their criteria accurately reflects a GM's skills, that's another debate...

AuroraSoxFan
03-05-2007, 12:59 PM
Based on their criteria, he is a #1. Now whether their criteria accurately reflects a GM's skills, that's another debate...

I guess if doing nothing but shortening your players off seasons by a week makes you a #1, congrats to Kevin.

Lip Man 1
03-05-2007, 01:14 PM
Directly on point, Steve Rosenbloom, Chicago Tribune:

Forbes magazine rated the best general managers (http://www.forbes.com/2007/03/02/sports-greatest-gms-biz-cz_jg_0302gms_print.html) in sports. Kevin McHale was rated tops overall. No lie. But wait. There's more stupidity: Of the four GMs in Chicago—the Blackhawks are non-existent on this list, much as they are in this city—Jerry Angelo, John Paxson and Jim Hendry rate higher than Kenny Williams, the only working GM who has won a championship. Would you trust Forbes' financial advice at this point?

Lip

SBSoxFan
03-05-2007, 01:36 PM
Based on their criteria, he is a #1. Now whether their criteria accurately reflects a GM's skills, that's another debate...

Well, their criteria is proprietary, so it must be accurate! :rolleyes:

itsnotrequired
03-05-2007, 01:39 PM
Well, their criteria is proprietary, so it must be accurate! :rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong, I think their analysis is extremely flawed. Simply looking at increase in wins and payroll over your predecessor is not nearly enough to show what kind of skills a GM has. Based on this, as long as you are not as bad as your predecessor, you will look like a better GM than the GM that takes over a winner and keeps it a winner.

SBSoxFan
03-05-2007, 01:49 PM
Don't get me wrong, I think their analysis is extremely flawed. Simply looking at increase in wins and payroll over your predecessor is not nearly enough to show what kind of skills a GM has. Based on this, as long as you are not as bad as your predecessor, you will look like a better GM than the GM that takes over a winner and keeps it a winner.

I figured that's where you were going with it. I take issue with the "proprietary" tag. They came up with some criteria and wrote a computer program to crunch the numbers, hardly proprietary. And, as you said, extremely flawed. Probably because it has such a business slant to it.

HotelWhiteSox
03-05-2007, 01:53 PM
McHale as #1, HA! He'll probably be fired by the end of this year, or maybe they'll wait until Garnett opts out

itsnotrequired
03-05-2007, 02:00 PM
I figured that's where you were going with it. I take issue with the "proprietary" tag. They came up with some criteria and wrote a computer program to crunch the numbers, hardly proprietary. And, as you said, extremely flawed. Probably because it has such a business slant to it.

Crunching numbers in a proprietary fashion to try and prove a point? I believe I've seen that before...

I want Mags back
03-05-2007, 02:05 PM
where's Tallon

SBSoxFan
03-08-2007, 01:26 PM
Crunching numbers in a proprietary fashion to try and prove a point? I believe I've seen that before...

From Homefish? :redneck

jcw218
03-08-2007, 03:33 PM
Directly on point, Steve Rosenbloom, Chicago Tribune:

Forbes magazine rated the best general managers (http://www.forbes.com/2007/03/02/sports-greatest-gms-biz-cz_jg_0302gms_print.html) in sports. Kevin McHale was rated tops overall. No lie. But wait. There's more stupidity: Of the four GMs in Chicago—the Blackhawks are non-existent on this list, much as they are in this city—Jerry Angelo, John Paxson and Jim Hendry rate higher than Kenny Williams, the only working GM who has won a championship. Would you trust Forbes' financial advice at this point?

Lip

where's Tallon

From the article
Only the 98 current GMs with at least three years of service were reviewed.

JackParkman
03-08-2007, 04:10 PM
#6 Don Waddell619588NHLAtlanta Thrashers (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/31/biz_06nhl_Atlanta-Thrashers_317422.html)

Six seasons, one winning season, zero playoff appearances.
Go figure.

slavko
03-08-2007, 09:05 PM
They've got it bass ackwards. Sox payroll increased BECAUSE the team was successful, not the other way around, and much of that success can be attributed to Kenny. Too much analysis, not enough thought.

pmck003
03-08-2007, 09:18 PM
McHale as #1, HA! He'll probably be fired by the end of this year, or maybe they'll wait until Garnett opts out

We were arguing the other night if McHale was the worst in basketball, and the conclusion was yes... what a list.

DumpJerry
03-09-2007, 08:58 AM
Musta been a slow news day in the business world........

jdm2662
03-09-2007, 10:06 AM
We were arguing the other night if McHale was the worst in basketball, and the conclusion was yes... what a list.

Isiah's got him beat, but Isiah's drafts have actually been ok recently. I don't think McHale can draft considering he's either traded or lost many first round picks (Joe Smith fiasco) during his tenure.

As for the list, I guess considering the formula, it makes sense. Both Angelo and Paxson had messes to clean up. Kenny took over a team off a division championship and been at worst average before hand. However, as everyone else said, should Kenny be penalized for that, especailly since he's won a title?

PKalltheway
03-09-2007, 10:16 AM
When I saw John Schuerholz at number 42, I knew for sure that this list wasn't credible. Despite only having one title under his belt, he's still one of the best GMs ever. Winning 14 straight division titles means you have to keep putting the right pieces in place to remain a contender, and Schuerholz did that with precision.

Mohoney
03-09-2007, 03:19 PM
Directly on point, Steve Rosenbloom, Chicago Tribune:

Forbes magazine rated the best general managers (http://www.forbes.com/2007/03/02/sports-greatest-gms-biz-cz_jg_0302gms_print.html) in sports. Kevin McHale was rated tops overall. No lie. But wait. There's more stupidity: Of the four GMs in Chicago—the Blackhawks are non-existent on this list, much as they are in this city—Jerry Angelo, John Paxson and Jim Hendry rate higher than Kenny Williams, the only working GM who has won a championship. Would you trust Forbes' financial advice at this point?

Lip

The Bears, Bulls, and Cubs make an AUFUL LOT of money, though.

The list seems to be more geared toward the business end than the winning end, anyway, so it's not a complete shock.

gobears1987
03-09-2007, 04:45 PM
Link to article (http://www.forbes.com/business/2007/03/02/sports-greatest-gms-biz-cz_jg_0302gms.html)

Funny thing is only one of these GM's has a championship.......Angelo deserves his ranking because he built a winning team despite working for the McCaskeys.