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chaerulez
03-02-2007, 02:15 PM
Apparently Ozzie was on WSCR this morning on North's show and he told about McCarthy's recent comments. Ozzie basically ripped McCarthy saying he lost five games for the Sox and that if he says the clubhouse is bad he should take a look in a mirror. Ozzie also implied McCarthy was out late partying or at bars too much. While I like the fact Ozzie wants to defend his club, I think he made McCarthy's comments bigger than they were. McCarthy was just unhappy about being dealt. No one wants to be traded from a winning club, and just like when Ozzie was unhappy when he was let go as a player, I think McCarthy was in that mindset. But I don't think this will be a big deal as the Mags or Frank situations. What McCarthy said about the team wasn't even as bad as what Carl Everett said.

itsnotrequired
03-02-2007, 02:18 PM
Just another case of Ozzie opening his mouth and the media running away with it.

UserNameBlank
03-02-2007, 02:22 PM
It wasn't that bad at all. Ozzie just stuck up for his players and his clubhouse, that's it. I thought his comments were very appropriate, and I don't think Ozzie made a big deal out of anything.

Navarro's Talent
03-02-2007, 02:24 PM
I don't think Brandon meant any harm with his comments. He pretty much stated that his age compared to others on the '06 club made it a bit difficult at times, but he respects the guys all the same. Regardless, I don't see this going too far.

chaz171
03-02-2007, 02:25 PM
oh well, there has to be one of these every year,

Maggs, mariotti, now mc carthy..

maybe it's an 'm' thing.

CLR01
03-02-2007, 02:33 PM
Ozzie needs to learn to keep his mouth shut. He doesn't need to respond to every comment made about him or the team.

PaulDrake
03-02-2007, 02:39 PM
Ozzie needs to learn to keep his mouth shut. He doesn't need to respond to every comment made about him or the team. Neither does his boss, Kenny Williams. Far too often they are thin skinned and vindictive. Enough already. Take care of business and quit worrying about your offended egos or sensibilities.

churlish
03-02-2007, 02:39 PM
Ahh, I miss the good 'ole days of White Sox PR. Now, there is the annual rite of passage where a former Sox player is trashed by the Sox organization.

I think we all learned a long time ago that Ozzie is a moron with the media.

I can live with it as long as he brings home another title.

cheeses_h_rice
03-02-2007, 02:43 PM
Just Ozzie being Ozzie.

:rolleyes:

What a dope.

CLR01
03-02-2007, 02:43 PM
Neither does his boss, Kenny Williams. Far too often they are thin skinned and vindictive. Enough already. Take care of business and quit worrying about your offended egos or sensibilities.

Yeah it's no wonder so many players/recent Sox players run their mouth to the media. They're learning from the best.

dwalteroo
03-02-2007, 03:26 PM
Neither does his boss, Kenny Williams. Far too often they are thin skinned and vindictive. Enough already. Take care of business and quit worrying about your offended egos or sensibilities.

Agreed on all counts. You would think eventually they would get it. I love the team but this is one thing that's always been disappointing. When players go, just let them leave. Case closed.

rdivaldi
03-02-2007, 03:34 PM
Ahh, I miss the good 'ole days of White Sox PR. Now, there is the annual rite of passage where a former Sox player is trashed by the Sox organization.

:?:

You mean the good old days of Terry Bevington? Albert Belle? Tony Phillips? Jaime Navarro?

The White Sox are light years better now with PR than they were in the 90's.

goon
03-02-2007, 03:38 PM
I don't care, I expect Ozzie to say what's on his mind, especially after the last three years of managing. Ozzie was probably offended, more so for his players, so I can't be mad at him. I like Brandon, but the comments he made about the Sox organization being too "negative" were disrespectful, considering this was the organization that brought him up and he hasn't done much in the league to earn the right to disrespect anyone. Maybe after he gets rocked in Texas this year he'll realize that his problems in 06 had nothing to do with the coaching staff.

chisoxmike
03-02-2007, 03:43 PM
Apparently Ozzie was on WSCR this morning on North's show and he told about McCarthy's recent comments. Ozzie basically ripped McCarthy saying he lost five games for the Sox and that if he says the clubhouse is bad he should take a look in a mirror. Ozzie also implied McCarthy was out late partying or at bars too much. While I like the fact Ozzie wants to defend his club, I think he made McCarthy's comments bigger than they were. McCarthy was just unhappy about being dealt. No one wants to be traded from a winning club, and just like when Ozzie was unhappy when he was let go as a player, I think McCarthy was in that mindset. But I don't think this will be a big deal as the Mags or Frank situations. What McCarthy said about the team wasn't even as bad as what Carl Everett said.

I had a feeling this was a major problem and thought this was a factor in the trade. I remember hearing during the summer Anderson and McCarthy would be out till 4am at Burbon Street and Duffy's a lot.

nodiggity59
03-02-2007, 04:10 PM
Ozzie needs to learn to keep his mouth shut. He doesn't need to respond to every comment made about him or the team.


Why? It has nothing to do with the team's success or failure. If I had to list 10 problems with the team last year, it wouldn't make the top 10.



:whocares

skobabe8
03-02-2007, 04:34 PM
Ozzie can almost do no wrong in my book, but I wished he wouldnt have made those comments. Brandon was obviously never comfortable in his role last year, but in 2005 pitched his ass of for us. I dont think Brandon took any shots at the Sox. He was saying he's around a bunch of guys his age now and definately has a defined role, which makes him more comfortable. No need to rip him for that.

BainesHOF
03-02-2007, 04:35 PM
Just another case of Ozzie opening his mouth and the media running away with it.

Huh? Ozzie has nobody to blame but himself. He ripped the heck out of McCarthy. It's the media's job to report what Ozzie said and it's the media's responsibility to get McCarthy's side.

TomBradley72
03-02-2007, 04:43 PM
Ozzie also implied McCarthy was out late partying or at bars too much.

I've heard this from multiple sources...that this was a concern of the White Sox...

itsnotrequired
03-02-2007, 04:48 PM
Huh? Ozzie has nobody to blame but himself. He ripped the heck out of McCarthy. It's the media's job to report what Ozzie said and it's the media's responsibility to get McCarthy's side.

No doubt Ozzie opened his mouth but you just know the media is going to blow it up to more than it is. I can see the headlines now:

Ozzie lashes out at former players: Who will be next?
- Chris Snopek expecting a call
- Will Jim Thome quite the team?

FedEx227
03-02-2007, 04:52 PM
Right now on B&B they are discussing another comment Ozzie made...

In response to McCarthy saying he didn't have many friends on the team... Ozzie says something to the effect of "He had friends on the team, not many, but Brian Anderson was one... he picked the wrong guy to be friends with"

So take that for what its worth.

spiffie
03-02-2007, 04:53 PM
You defend your team to the death as the manager. If Ozzie did anything else I would be disappointed in him. Brandon spoke ill of the White Sox, he deserved to get ripped. There is the White Sox, and then the rest of the world, and the rest of the world is the enemy.

CLR01
03-02-2007, 05:01 PM
Why? It has nothing to do with the team's success or failure. If I had to list 10 problems with the team last year, it wouldn't make the top 10.

I said that Ozzie acting like a 6 year old had a negative impact on the teams on field performance last year? :dunno:

mjmcend
03-02-2007, 05:03 PM
Ozzie needs to learn to keep his mouth shut. He doesn't need to respond to every comment made about him or the team.

Both Ozzie and Kenny Williams need to learn the value of the phrase "No comment."

mjmcend
03-02-2007, 05:09 PM
You defend your team to the death as the manager. If Ozzie did anything else I would be disappointed in him. Brandon spoke ill of the White Sox, he deserved to get ripped. There is the White Sox, and then the rest of the world, and the rest of the world is the enemy.

This isn't a back yard brawl or a street gang. These people are supposed to be professionals at the top of their world. Ozzie needs to realize that he is the manager now and not a player anymore. He represents the entire organization and should act like it.

chaerulez
03-02-2007, 05:40 PM
Right now on B&B they are discussing another comment Ozzie made...

In response to McCarthy saying he didn't have many friends on the team... Ozzie says something to the effect of "He had friends on the team, not many, but Brian Anderson was one... he picked the wrong guy to be friends with"

So take that for what its worth.

Yeah, I forgot to mention that, sounds like a little shot at BA as well. If they were out late all the time, it's deserved. But again I don't think what Brandon said was big enough for Ozzie to let that out in the open and then imply the White Sox could have made the playoffs if McCarthy wasn't on the roster.

spiffie
03-02-2007, 05:49 PM
This isn't a back yard brawl or a street gang. These people are supposed to be professionals at the top of their world. Ozzie needs to realize that he is the manager now and not a player anymore. He represents the entire organization and should act like it.
See, I feel like this is what the manager should be doing. He's the guy who should be talking for the team, taking the heat for the team. Somehow he was genius when he was doing that in 2005. Everyone said "Ozzie did a great job of keeping the focus on him, not on the team seemingly collapsing." Now though he's a prick and an *******? :rolleyes:

JorgeFabregas
03-02-2007, 05:57 PM
The original post made it sound as if North was the one who brought McCarthy's comments up. North said something to the effect of "McCarthy was only serviceable" and Ozzie said "I don't want to talk about him because he said some things that made me hate him."

...and then he went on to talk about it.

mjmcend
03-02-2007, 06:10 PM
See, I feel like this is what the manager should be doing. He's the guy who should be talking for the team, taking the heat for the team. Somehow he was genius when he was doing that in 2005. Everyone said "Ozzie did a great job of keeping the focus on him, not on the team seemingly collapsing." Now though he's a prick and an *******? :rolleyes:

He didn't keep the focus off the collapse by picking fights with his ex-employees.

WhiteSox5187
03-02-2007, 06:11 PM
Both Ozzie and Kenny Williams need to learn the value of the phrase "No comment."
I agree, this organization has a bad history of just ripping guys who leave. The whole organization needs to learn how to shut up.

UserNameBlank
03-02-2007, 06:12 PM
This isn't a back yard brawl or a street gang. These people are supposed to be professionals at the top of their world. Ozzie needs to realize that he is the manager now and not a player anymore. He represents the entire organization and should act like it.

Ozzie openly expressing his opinions is what makes Ozzie who he is. Take that away from him and he's just another guy who uses his bench a lot and makes often times confusing moves in the bullpen.

People need to serioulsy stop getting so worked up over this. Ozzie went off at Maggs before and for good reason. He didn't really even go off on Brandon either. He just said that you can't be only positive to a player when he's pitching like **** in response to Brandon's comments. He also said that he picked the wrong guy to befriend in Anderson, which can be interpreted in several ways. I interpret it as he should have taken after a veteran and focused on baseball more, if for nothing else than to show his teammates he takes his ****ty work in the bullpen seriously. I highly doubt Cliff Politte was worried about hitting the clubs when he was getting bombed day in and day out.

Ozzie's words were nothing to get excited about at all. If you even heard the interview there was nothing said to get anyone's panties in a wad. Honestly, I didn't even think anyone would make an issue out of it but apparently it is another slow news day in the Chicago sports world.

Edit: One more thing. I think Ozzie's comment about Brandon and Anderson was nothing more than another attempt to light a fire under Brian, and for good reason. Brian, at least in his interviews so far, seems much more serious this year. He has impressed Walker and is making strides, so trading Brandon might have been the best thing for the development of Brian's work ethic. If the Sox had to choose between trading Brandon for Danks, Masset, and Rasner and trading Brian for far, far less, I think they made the right move.

Hendu
03-02-2007, 06:12 PM
Ozzie also implied McCarthy was out late partying or at bars too much.

Wasn't there a thread about that last year? I seem to recall a big argument here about McCarthy and Anderson going out partying the night after they both had bad games.

UserNameBlank
03-02-2007, 06:21 PM
I agree, this organization has a bad history of just ripping guys who leave. The whole organization needs to learn how to shut up.

Maggs and Everett were asking for it, and Crazy Carl wasn't even ripped. Frank was a different story, although that was just KW letting his emotions get the best of him again, just like the Jon Rauch situation a couple years before.

Of all the former player-Sox management public altercations, this one with Brandon is by far of the least substance. The media is just making it out to be something it isn't.

oeo
03-02-2007, 06:23 PM
I agree, this organization has a bad history of just ripping guys who leave. The whole organization needs to learn how to shut up.

It all starts with guys ripping the organization when they leave. You don't hear anyone in the organization coming out and saying anything bad about them, until they have something bad to say about the organization. I say Ozzie should continue to be himself; I like his style.

To those who don't want to get ripped, they should be the first to say, "No comment."

WhiteSox5187
03-02-2007, 06:27 PM
It all starts with guys ripping the organization when they leave. You don't hear anyone in the organization coming out and saying anything bad about them, until they have something bad to say about the organization. I say Ozzie should continue to be himself; I like his style.

To those who don't want to get ripped, they should be the first to say, "No comment."
Oh sure you do, Chris Widger was ripped when he left and he didn't say anything. Even Ozzie was ripped when HE left! Now, granted, Mags and Carl were sort of asking for it, but I think you really should just take the classy route and not say anything. But I have to admit, I love Buerhle's thing last year "Carl would know about leadership. He's been a leader for eight different teams the past seven years."

BainesHOF
03-02-2007, 06:27 PM
right now.

WSFP00
03-02-2007, 06:27 PM
odd.

UserNameBlank
03-02-2007, 06:28 PM
It all starts with guys ripping the organization when they leave. You don't hear anyone in the organization coming out and saying anything bad about them, until they have something bad to say about the organization. I say Ozzie should continue to be himself; I like his style.

To those who don't want to get ripped, they should be the first to say, "No comment."

I agree. When Rowand and Garcia left they didn't have anything bad to say. Same thing with Widger, Alomar, Cotts, Timo, Politte, Hermanson, etc. and these guys all have rings on their fingers. Edit: except for Alomar.

oeo
03-02-2007, 06:28 PM
odd.

I'm sure they're just trying to blow what Ozzie said out of proportion, like always. *yawn*

WSFP00
03-02-2007, 06:29 PM
I'm sure they're just trying to blow what Ozzie said out of proportion, like always. *yawn*
He is just saying how he is disappointed.

oeo
03-02-2007, 06:31 PM
Oh sure you do, Chris Widger was ripped when he left and he didn't say anything. Even Ozzie was ripped when HE left! Now, granted, Mags and Carl were sort of asking for it, but I think you really should just take the classy route and not say anything. But I have to admit, I love Buerhle's thing last year "Carl would know about leadership. He's been a leader for eight different teams the past seven years."

Widger's work-ethic was questioned far before he was released. Maybe he should have worked harder. :dunno:

gobears1987
03-02-2007, 06:34 PM
Of all the former player-Sox management public altercations, this one with Brandon is by far of the least substance. The media is just making it out to be something it isn't.
And posters have to then continue to blow it up.

BMac said something stupid and Ozzie called him out on it. Big freaking deal.

UserNameBlank
03-02-2007, 06:34 PM
Is this the Score or Star Magazine?

rdivaldi
03-02-2007, 06:36 PM
No doubt Ozzie opened his mouth but you just know the media is going to blow it up to more than it is. I can see the headlines now:

Ozzie lashes out at former players: Who will be next?
- Chris Snopek expecting a call
- Will Jim Thome quite the team?

You were on the right track. As of 5:30 we have:

"Guillen Goes Off On Ex-Sox"
and
"Here We Go Again"

WhiteSox5187
03-02-2007, 06:37 PM
Is this the Score or Star Magazine?
Even Star Magazine has more journalistic integrity than the Score. AND to work at Star Magazine one must also be literate...I'm not so sure that Mike North and Mike Murphy are.

Uncle_Patrick
03-02-2007, 06:42 PM
It wasn't so bad...I don't think the Score got the reaction they were hoping to get. Basically, he said his comments about the Sox clubhouse were misconstrued and that his partying wasn't really an issue.

UserNameBlank
03-02-2007, 06:46 PM
Even Star Magazine has more journalistic integrity than the Score. AND to work at Star Magazine one must also be literate...I'm not so sure that Mike North and Mike Murphy are.
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:oDhGTX0dBvqekM:http://www.yaysports.com/mlb/images/Ozzie%2520Guillen.jpg (http://www.yaysports.com/mlb/images/Ozzie%20Guillen.jpg)*ring ring ring* "Hello?"
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:8_FQo1e_gNF3PM:http://www.northtonorth.com/personalpages/images/mikesketch.gif (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.northtonorth.com/personalpages/images/mikesketch.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.northtonorth.com/personalpages/mikesbio.html&h=167&w=180&sz=17&hl=en&start=23&tbnid=8_FQo1e_gNF3PM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=101&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmike%2Bnorth%26start%3D20%26gbv%3D2%2 6ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN)"Yeah uh dis is Mike Nort. I dought you should know dat Brandon MacCardy said yer mamma was so fat dat uh... I furget whaddie said."
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:oDhGTX0dBvqekM:http://www.yaysports.com/mlb/images/Ozzie%2520Guillen.jpg (http://www.yaysports.com/mlb/images/Ozzie%20Guillen.jpg)"Well you tell Brandon we might have been in the playoffs without him, so we're glad he's gone."
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:U_9LO8kMv4ptQM:http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/images/content/whitesox/mccarthy35.jpg (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/images/content/whitesox/mccarthy35.jpg&imgrefurl=http://chicago.comcastsportsnet.com/view_content_1p.asp%3FID%3D5355&h=196&w=320&sz=65&hl=en&start=3&tbnid=U_9LO8kMv4ptQM:&tbnh=72&tbnw=118&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbrandon%2Bmccarthy%26gbv%3D2%26svnum% 3D10%26hl%3Den)*ring ring ring* "Hello?"
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:8_FQo1e_gNF3PM:http://www.northtonorth.com/personalpages/images/mikesketch.gif (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.northtonorth.com/personalpages/images/mikesketch.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.northtonorth.com/personalpages/mikesbio.html&h=167&w=180&sz=17&hl=en&start=23&tbnid=8_FQo1e_gNF3PM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=101&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmike%2Bnorth%26start%3D20%26gbv%3D2%2 6ndsp%3D20%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN)"Mike Nort on da Score 670 in Chicaaaago. How do ya feel about Ozzie calling you a son of a *****?"

BainesHOF
03-02-2007, 07:10 PM
McCarthy came off sounding pretty classy. He said his comments were taken a little out of context, saying he was just commenting on what he found positive about the Texas locker room. He sounded genuinely concerned that his comments may have been taken wrongly, and said he's already called some players on the Sox to explain where he was coming from.

He also said that we would go out with Anderson and was responsible about it, but when Ozzie talked to him about it that he took what Ozzie said to heart and toned it down.

He even said he was disappointed in losing the games that he did last year.

All in all, McCarthy stuck to explaining his rather harmless viewpoint instead of answering Ozzie's inflammatory comments.

HotelWhiteSox
03-02-2007, 07:33 PM
McCarthy was VERY classy. They played him the audio, he said for the most part he agreed with Ozzie. He said he had what, like 7 losses? He said the big deal there was that his comments weren't taken as they were meant. It wasn't meant to be negative, but just how there were more young guys where he is now. The only thing he was disappointed about was that if he was there, they would definately sit, talk, and straighten all out (he says he has already called some Chicago guys about it). He even acknowledged the going out, said he didn't do anything bad, but they did talk to them about it, and he said he saw their point and that it was a time when both were struggling.

Don't really agree with how Ozzie handled this. One, to pinpoint losses on a guy publicly, why doesn't Ozzie count up the games he lost. And also, saying that picking Brian was the wrong friend, what the hell was that? Unless he's doing tough love on young kids, it's like he's had a personal vendetta on both of them since last year (and earlier with McCarthy if you count 05 when he was great and Ozzie was quicker to say he hadn't proven anything, even though his starts really helped this team. And of course the whole playoff roster thing)

And of course the Score, man, the vibe sounded like someone had just died. And of course, they had a Scoreboard update right after, and the quotes and this story was the first thing they talked about, as if it's something that even needs to be mentioned in an update? Funny, Tyson Chandler just ripped Scott Skiles a new one publicly, similar situation, heard no mention of that in the update.

JorgeFabregas
03-02-2007, 07:47 PM
It's amusing to me that people blame the Score for the story. I don't like North, but he only asked Ozzie about McCarthy's performance. Ozzie then went off about his comments. Ozzie was the one who brought the whole thing up.

Gavin
03-02-2007, 07:50 PM
It's amusing to me that people blame the Score for the story. I don't like North, but he only asked Ozzie about McCarthy's performance. Ozzie then went off about his comments. Ozzie was the one who brought the whole thing up.

http://myspace-842.vo.llnwd.net/00591/24/87/591117842_m.jpg
Ozzie Guillen is a saint!

oeo
03-02-2007, 07:52 PM
http://myspace-842.vo.llnwd.net/00591/24/87/591117842_m.jpg
Ozzie Guillen is a saint!

No one ever said that, but he is who he is. It gets tiring when you have to hear people talk about how he should shut up. That's the way he is, get over it.

ZombieRob
03-02-2007, 08:31 PM
Can't blame the Score .I think they have an obligation to ask McCarthy to come on and respond .And i give McCarthy credit on 2 things,he could have ripped into Ozzaroo and he didn't and he acted like a pro when answering the questions put out there.

JB98
03-02-2007, 08:33 PM
No one ever said that, but he is who he is. It gets tiring when you have to hear people talk about how he should shut up. That's the way he is, get over it.

I agree. I'm tired of people getting their panties in a bunch over the stuff Guillen says. He's not going to change. Mostly, I find his various rants amusing.

Of course, I'm not a very politically correct person. I don't really care if people's feelings get hurt. As long as Ozzie is managing and in the public eye, there will be soap operas like this one.

Gavin
03-02-2007, 08:54 PM
No one ever said that, but he is who he is. It gets tiring when you have to hear people talk about how he should shut up. That's the way he is, get over it.

Did I ever say he should shut up? It gets tiring hearing people stand behind a guy no matter what he says. What does he have to say before you stop backing him?

Apologists.

oeo
03-02-2007, 09:04 PM
Did I ever say he should shut up? It gets tiring hearing people stand behind a guy no matter what he says. What does he have to say before you stop backing him?

Apologists.

Did I ever say that you did? Read my post again before you start going crazy.

getonbckthr
03-02-2007, 09:07 PM
Why is this in the clubhouse? Mccarthy is a Texas Ranger now. Oh by the way I can't for Brandon and straight fastball to get lit up.

champagne030
03-02-2007, 09:13 PM
No one ever said that, but he is who he is. It gets tiring when you have to hear people talk about how he should shut up. That's the way he is, get over it.

That's pretty much the way I feel with people complaining about Phil Rogers and his opinion about how trading our excess starters hurts us in '07.

oeo
03-02-2007, 09:24 PM
That's pretty much the way I feel with people complaining about Phil Rogers and his opinion about how trading our excess starters hurts us in '07.

But Rogers goes back and forth. Sometimes he's praising the Sox and sometimes he's ripping them (with no real basis, at that).

Gavin
03-02-2007, 09:24 PM
Did I ever say that you did? Read my post again before you start going crazy.

You seemed to associate my post with the attitude of "the people" you were referring to. Don't think I'm getting crazy.

Timmy D's
03-02-2007, 09:27 PM
I agree. I'm tired of people getting their panties in a bunch over the stuff Guillen says. He's not going to change. Mostly, I find his various rants amusing.

I agree 100%, I also find his rants amusing, and I also think Ozzie thinks he(himself) is amusing. He sees how reporters and other media peoples eyes light up w/ laughter every time he opens his mouth, and that gets him going. Deep down I think he wishes he was doing stand up sometimes.

oeo
03-02-2007, 09:30 PM
You seemed to associate my post with the attitude of "the people" you were referring to. Don't think I'm getting crazy.

Well, it seemed like you were getting a little freaked out.

And my post said nothing about you. I was just saying, it's tiresome to hear that Ozzie should keep his mouth shut. He's not a saint, but he is who he is, and as Sox fans, we should know that and stop whining every time he opens his mouth.

Vernam
03-02-2007, 09:40 PM
I agree. I'm tired of people getting their panties in a bunch over the stuff Guillen says. He's not going to change. Mostly, I find his various rants amusing.

Of course, I'm not a very politically correct person. I don't really care if people's feelings get hurt. As long as Ozzie is managing and in the public eye, there will be soap operas like this one.:thumbsup: We have a manager and GM who are passionate about what they do, and a by-product is that they pop off occasionally. Show me a guy who only says or does the safe thing, and I'll show you a loser.

Vernam

itsnotrequired
03-02-2007, 09:44 PM
You were on the right track. As of 5:30 we have:

"Guillen Goes Off On Ex-Sox"
and
"Here We Go Again"

I must be psychic.

Grzegorz
03-02-2007, 09:45 PM
We have a manager and GM who are passionate about what they do.


How is Ozzie passionate?

itsnotrequired
03-02-2007, 09:46 PM
How is Ozzie passionate?

He doesn't fall asleep in the dugout.

oeo
03-02-2007, 09:47 PM
How is Ozzie passionate?

He bleeds silver and black just like all of us...

How can you say he isn't passionate? :?:

champagne030
03-02-2007, 09:49 PM
But Rogers goes back and forth. Sometimes he's praising the Sox and sometimes he's ripping them (with no real basis, at that).

I think he's pretty consistent. He's all for planning for the future (likes the deals), but feels the future is now and trading Garcia and McCarthy for Floyd, Gio, Danks and Masset doesn't help us for '07. He thinks that three of those guys are not ready and the other has the potential to help the bullpen, but is behind 3 other guys, at least.

I agree with him.

Hitmen77
03-02-2007, 09:51 PM
You were on the right track. As of 5:30 we have:

"Guillen Goes Off On Ex-Sox"
and
"Here We Go Again"

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/

...and "Guillen's 'feuds' are more like cheap shots"

Grzegorz
03-02-2007, 09:53 PM
He bleeds silver and black just like all of us...

How can you say he isn't passionate? :?:

I would not describe Ozzie as passionate; I'd describe him as irascible.

oeo
03-02-2007, 09:56 PM
I would not describe Ozzie as passionate; I'd describe him as irascible.

So saying it was one of the saddest days of his life when he had to leave the Sox as a player, and then coming here and wanting to bring a championship to this organization because he loves it so much, is not passion? What is passion, then?

Whitesox029
03-02-2007, 10:02 PM
There is also an article on MLB.com, but I wasn't able to read the whole thing because I was laughing too hard at the second paragraph.
http://www.seinfeld-fan.net/pictures/kramer/kramer040.jpg
"Hey, Elaine, is it statue of limitations or statute of limitations?"
"Statute"
"...Are you sure??"
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070302&content_id=1823960&vkey=spt2007news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws

dwalteroo
03-02-2007, 10:04 PM
Ozzie is passionate. The man bleeds White Sox.

But at what point is this team going to learn to let....players....that....leave....just.....go. And I mean that for whatever reason the leave. Once someone is off the team, boom. Say nice things about them, whether you mean it or not, and move on.

Grzegorz
03-02-2007, 10:05 PM
Ozzie's is clearly irascible.

oeo
03-02-2007, 10:09 PM
Ozzie's is clearly irascible.

I don't think he has anger issues. It's more of not thinking about what you say before you say it. And even if he did, that doesn't mean he's not passionate about the organization.

He's clearly passionate about the White Sox...I have no idea how you can say he's not.

Grzegorz
03-02-2007, 10:13 PM
He may be passionate toward the Chicago White Sox but that passion is not channeled properly.

He's quick to anger, and hard-headed.

He also has a pair; to blame McCarthy for losing the division is delusional.

Unblyleven Bread
03-02-2007, 10:35 PM
It all starts with guys ripping the organization when they leave. You don't hear anyone in the organization coming out and saying anything bad about them, until they have something bad to say about the organization. I say Ozzie should continue to be himself; I like his style.

To those who don't want to get ripped, they should be the first to say, "No comment."

This seems to be a common occurrence with ex-Sox.

KyWhiSoxFan
03-02-2007, 10:51 PM
Ozzie and KW should learn to just keep quiet. If someone snipes at the Sox after they leave and shows no class, you don't sink to their level. You don't have to get in the last word (in most cases).

I'm tired of managers and management being the news and the focal point of attention. The players should be in the spotlight. Shut up and let them play.

BUMMER
03-02-2007, 11:29 PM
Ozzie needs to learn to keep his mouth shut. He doesn't need to respond to every comment made about him or the team.

I agree. Let's get back to playing baseball and quit with this soap-opera stuff. Reinsdorf should take Kenny W, Ozzie, and Coop onto the carpet and remind them that their job is to lead this baseball team and quit responding to anything & everything that gets said. A little professionalism, please.....

ewokpelts
03-03-2007, 12:41 AM
I had a feeling this was a major problem and thought this was a factor in the trade. I remember hearing during the summer Anderson and McCarthy would be out till 4am at Burbon Street and Duffy's a lot.
mark grace did the exact same thing. and his games were less than 12 hours after the bars closed.

ewokpelts
03-03-2007, 12:43 AM
I agree. Let's get back to playing baseball and quit with this soap-opera stuff. Reinsdorf should take Kenny W, Ozzie, and Coop onto the carpet and remind them that their job is to lead this baseball team and quit responding to anything & everything that gets said. A little professionalism, please.....
cooper hasnt much of anything at all this offseason. and what he has said is mostly positive.

CLR01
03-03-2007, 12:49 AM
That's pretty much the way I feel with people complaining about Phil Rogers and his opinion about how trading our excess starters hurts us in '07.


But that's obviously different. Ozzie can say what he wants, when he wants but if you are Frank, Maggs, Lee, Everett or any other former player, Rogers, Marriotti, ESPN, BP, SI, Fox, an announcer or any other person who has something negative to say about the Sox, it's fans, Comiskey or the neighborhood then you just need to ****. Something like that anyway.

CLR01
03-03-2007, 12:52 AM
He may be passionate toward the Chicago White Sox but that passion is not channeled properly.

He's quick to anger, and hard-headed.

He also has a pair; to blame McCarthy for losing the division is delusional.

If McCarthy lost the Sox the division then what kind of idiot would Ozzie be for running the bum out there as often as he did? I guess he doesn't have a comment on that.

whitem0nkey
03-03-2007, 01:30 AM
Like all sox fans i love ozzie, yeah he does have his moments like today with his comments but what he adds to the white sox out weights his mouth.

while the sox are winning this will be tolerated by the media and defended by sox fans, but what will happen when the sox have a year or 2 with loosing seasons?

this could get real ugly, i will still feel the same about ozzie as i did after 05, he will be still the same person, he did not just get stupid in a season or two. but most people will place him in the 92 ditka category.

ewokpelts
03-03-2007, 02:04 AM
Like all sox fans i love ozzie, yeah he does have his moments like today with his comments but what he adds to the white sox out weights his mouth.

while the sox are winning this will be tolerated by the media and defended by sox fans, but what will happen when the sox have a year or 2 with loosing seasons?

this could get real ugly, i will still feel the same about ozzie as i did after 05, he will be still the same person, he did not just get stupid in a season or two. but most people will place him in the 92 ditka category.ozzie is now referring to himself in the third person....i think Ozzie is letting success get to Ozzie's head.

Ozzie lost more games than Brandon did. The team played more like 2004 than 2005. I still belive that the 2003 and 2004 teams were better suited to win the division than 2005. There was more talent on those teams. Th eonly reason why 2005 didnt end horrible was that they had a huge lead built up early on that when they do thier annual" we suck in august and september", the noose only got tightened, and the executioner didnt kick the chair.

Ozzie needs to refocus HIMSELF so that we have a sustained era of success on the southside, and stop worrying about what some rookie says about the clubhouse.

If I recall correctly, Ozzie statments in 1997 to Sox brass were A LOT WORSE than anything Brandon said.

TheCommander
03-03-2007, 02:13 AM
I seem to recall a big argument here about McCarthy and Anderson going out partying the night after they both had bad games.

They must have run up one helluva tab then.:D:

MUsoxfan
03-03-2007, 02:44 AM
ozzie is not referring to himself in the third person....i think Ozzie is letting success get to Ozzie's head.

Ozzie lost more games than Brandon did. The team played more like 2004 than 2005. I still belive that the 2003 and 2004 teams were better suited to win the division than 2005. There was more talent on those teams. Th eonly reason why 2005 didnt end horrible was that they had a huge lead built up early on that when they do thier annual" we suck in august and september", the noose only got tightened, and the executioner didnt kick the chair.

Ozzie needs to refocus HIMSELF so that we have a sustained era of success on the southside, and stop worrying about what some rookie says about the clubhouse.

If I recall correctly, Ozzie statments in 1997 to Sox brass were A LOT WORSE than anything Brandon said.


Oh please. Ozzie loves the Sox like all of us do. When guys question management he goes into defense mode. Frankly I'm tired of guys that give politically correct answers to everything. I'm all about our players and management going out and speaking their mind on situations because it gives a true honest feeling as to what the situation is. Ozzie and KW are about the Chicago White Sox. They need to say what the Chicago White Sox believe. It's not always favorable. I'd be more upset if management kissed the asses of everyone that leaves

whitem0nkey
03-03-2007, 03:03 AM
Ozzie lost more games than Brandon did.

First ozzie is involved in every game while Brandon is involved in a fraction of games, so ozzie naturally gets more chances to loose games.

But aside from that. All managers loose games, what separates good managers from bad ones is the better ones loose less games. A manager will never win you a game, unless he will step on the field and play.

CPditka
03-03-2007, 03:11 AM
Ive seen McCarthy out on several occasions, even late night. He is nothing but socialable and was never "wasted". I wish him the best of luck in Texas, but not against the Sox. Hes a good, young, guy. Lets not make this into a partying thing, b/c half of the sox's fans would be guilty as well. Brandon did come across as a class act. Good luck B-Mac.

Jerome
03-03-2007, 03:21 AM
Just the annual tradition of trashing players after letting them go / trading them. What bad things will ozzie say next year about Jermaine Dye when he leaves?

HotelWhiteSox
03-03-2007, 03:23 AM
Hard to defend Ozzie on this one, pretty classless. First off, pinpointing losses on a guy in public and saying that they could probably make the playoffs without him. Then trying to ruin his image by bringing out personal stuff like his nightlife, all while throwing Anderson under the bus in the same convo (he picked the wrong guy/friend). The only thing I can think of is that he was trying tough love on the young guys, other than that, sounds like he's had some personal vendetta with both Anderson and McCarthy for over a year now :?:

So, when do we get into Freddy Garcia's habits? I'm sure that would be a lot more interesting than anything McCarthy did...

ewokpelts
03-03-2007, 03:23 AM
Oh please. Ozzie loves the Sox like all of us do. When guys question management he goes into defense mode. Frankly I'm tired of guys that give politically correct answers to everything. I'm all about our players and management going out and speaking their mind on situations because it gives a true honest feeling as to what the situation is. Ozzie and KW are about the Chicago White Sox. They need to say what the Chicago White Sox believe. It's not always favorable. I'd be more upset if management kissed the asses of everyone that leavesozzie kisses the asses of our opponents...i think that's worse

what about KW's treatment of Frank? You think that was defense mode or a vendetta? Unless by defense mode you mean:

:KW
An easy way to justify my vendetta against Frank.

ewokpelts
03-03-2007, 03:25 AM
First ozzie is involved in every game while Brandon is involved in a fraction of games, so ozzie naturally gets more chances to loose games.

But aside from that. All managers loose games, what separates good managers from bad ones is the better ones loose less games. A manager will never win you a game, unless he will step on the field and play.

Ozzie PUT Brandon in there, knowing that he has a tendacy to give up the gopher ball. A lot.

ewokpelts
03-03-2007, 03:26 AM
Hard to defend Ozzie on this one, pretty classless. First off, pinpointing losses on a guy in public and saying that they could probably make the playoffs without him. Then trying to ruin his image by bringing out personal stuff like his nightlife, all while throwing Anderson under the bus in the same convo (he picked the wrong guy/friend). The only thing I can think of is that he was trying tough love on the young guys, other than that, sounds like he's had some personal vendetta with both Anderson and McCarthy for over a year now :?:

So, when do we get into Freddy Garcia's habits? I'm sure that would be a lot more interesting than anything McCarthy did...

puff puff, pass pass anyone?

ewokpelts
03-03-2007, 03:27 AM
If McCarthy lost the Sox the division then what kind of idiot would Ozzie be for running the bum out there as often as he did? I guess he doesn't have a comment on that.Amen.

ewokpelts
03-03-2007, 03:28 AM
Ive seen McCarthy out on several occasions, even late night. He is nothing but socialable and was never "wasted". I wish him the best of luck in Texas, but not against the Sox. Hes a good, young, guy. Lets not make this into a partying thing, b/c half of the sox's fans would be guilty as well. Brandon did come across as a class act. Good luck Fingernails on a blackboard.yeah, the same ones buying all those joe crede jerseys. maybe that's why B MAC was let go. He wasnt "sexy" enough to sell $200 jerseys.

mjmcend
03-03-2007, 04:06 AM
It all starts with guys ripping the organization when they leave. You don't hear anyone in the organization coming out and saying anything bad about them, until they have something bad to say about the organization. I say Ozzie should continue to be himself; I like his style.

To those who don't want to get ripped, they should be the first to say, "No comment."

You don't believe that the organization and the manager and GM should be above that kind of petty, last word, retribution stuff? This is all ego, and its not good for the organization.

mjmcend
03-03-2007, 04:11 AM
It is sad that a 20-something ballplayer has more class and PR smarts than our manager.

Grzegorz
03-03-2007, 05:59 AM
Frankly I'm tired of guys that give politically correct answers to everything.

I am too; I am all for those that want to show themselves as egotistical, irascible, & illogical.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

southside rocks
03-03-2007, 09:32 AM
You don't believe that the organization and the manager and GM should be above that kind of petty, last word, retribution stuff? This is all ego, and its not good for the organization.

The organization is a major league baseball club, not a charity or an accounting firm. Ego is the only force that is larger than money on a pro sports team and in the franchise. I really doubt that this kind of stuff is going to stop in our lifetimes -- on ANY club. (Which makes me wonder why no one has said that the Texas Ranger Brandon McCarthy should have **** -- is he doing any good for his new club with this?)

Lou Piniella said (in a different context), "You can't have 25 Stepford wives" on a team. He was talking about his head-case pitcher, Carlos Zambrano, but it's a good observation about this situation too. Ozzie Guillen will never be a "Stepford wife" of a manager any more than he was that kind of player. I'm surprised people still bother to get upset at it by now.

And here's a pretty good peice by Nate Whalen of the Daily Southtown about the whole McCarthy/Anderson/boozing it up thing -- and BTW, there WERE rumors about this situation last year, among people who work for the Sox and people who know those people.
http://www.dailysouthtown.com/sports/281603,031SPT1.article

From that article: "Anderson understood Guillen's comments about drinking. A rookie last year, Anderson admitted he sought comfort by going out with friends when things weren't going well. One instance in particular was memorable since someone contacted the Sox saying they had seen both McCarthy and Anderson out late."

The rumors appear to have had some foundation in truth. Interesting. What has McCarthy said about this????

Moral of the story might be: don't party like Mickey Mantle if you're not putting up numbers like Mickey Mantle. :tongue:

cheezheadsoxfan
03-03-2007, 09:45 AM
puff puff, pass pass anyone?


:rolling:

FarWestChicago
03-03-2007, 09:55 AM
I don't think he has anger issues.I think it's obvious Grzegorz and ewoks have anger issues. :D:

Cat Thief
03-03-2007, 10:10 AM
So, when do we get into Freddy Garcia's habits? I'm sure that would be a lot more interesting than anything McCarthy did...

I don't think Ozzie would be talking about Brandon if he put up half of the numbers that Garcia did. Brandon himself probably wouldn't be talking ****. Young kid leaves the organization and bad mouths the clubhouse?

I for one am glad Ozzie called him on it.

Hitmen77
03-03-2007, 10:21 AM
It is sad that a 20-something ballplayer has more class and PR smarts than our manager.

I'm not defending Ozzie's handling of the situation here, but I wouldn't exactly call McCarthy a "class act" with better PR smarts in this situation. I believe McCarthy said this:

''The second [Rangers general manager] Jon Daniels called me, it was just a different attitude right off the bat,'' McCarthy said. ''[With the Sox] I was constantly hearing, 'This is what we don't like. This is what we think you are doing wrong. This is what's bad. This is bad.' It always seemed to be focused on the negative. Here, it's just, 'Here is your spot, and we expect you to do well, and we think the world of you. Let's see you go do it.'

*** - God forbid the White Sox have some constructive criticism for a rookie who struggled last year.

He also made some comments about the atmosphere in the Sox clubhouse - which I find puzzling because I have a hard time believing people like Buehrle, Konerko, Thome, and Crede are hard to get along with.

drftnaway
03-03-2007, 10:29 AM
I don't think Ozzie would be talking about Brandon if he put up half of the numbers that Garcia did. Brandon himself probably wouldn't be talking ****. Young kid leaves the organization and bad mouths the clubhouse?

I for one am glad Ozzie called him on it.

And just how did he bad mouth the organization again?

caulfield12
03-03-2007, 10:37 AM
There's a difference between badmouthing the clubhouse and stating the obvious...that the Sox have been a veteran team, and not too many single players.

I'm sure the adjustment is a little bit difficult for a young player if there are only 2-3 guys under 25 on the team. Buehrle's now married and expecting, Konerko married...not sure about AJ, Crede and Garland, but the "young guns" from the 2000 team are all maturing into fathers and husbands.

McCarthy didn't say the team was too old or "boring" or lame. Just that there weren't a lot of young guys that wanted to hang out.

starboy0
03-03-2007, 10:40 AM
I've always had a feeling that Ozzie has had something against Brian Anderson. Now after Ozzie's comment on the radio something to the effect that "McCarthy picked the wrong guy to be friends with" (meaning Brian Anderson) it's making me think he had a long-standing thing against both of them. Ozzie had little patience for their late nights and/or perceived lack of work ethic.

Personally I think Brian Anderson has the capability of being a great player and I hope Ozzie and Brian can get on genuinely good terms.

Cat Thief
03-03-2007, 10:53 AM
And just how did he bad mouth the organization again?

"It always seemed to be focused on the negative."

To me thats bad mouthing, maybe not towards the organization but definitely the clubhouse. IMO he had plenty of opportunities to step up and he failed.

caulfield12
03-03-2007, 10:53 AM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-070302soxguillen,1,7725564.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

I love how they call KW for a quote and he seems annoyed with Ozzie, when 90% of the time, Williams also gets involved with "non-business" related White Sox commentary that only fans the flames.

At least this is livening up the weekend...nobody seems to care that the White Sox are 0-4, maybe Baseball Prospectus will revise us down to 68 wins though.

:smile:

caulfield12
03-03-2007, 10:56 AM
"It always seemed to be focused on the negative."

To me thats bad mouthing, maybe not towards the organization but definitely the clubhouse. IMO he had plenty of opportunities to step up and he failed.

It's not like he was worthless.

We wouldn't have won the World Series in 2005 without Brandon pitching so well down the stretch...because we probably would have missed the playoffs.

He's far from proven, but cut the guy some slack. If anything, he seems to be tempering his comments a lot more than Ozzie and KW usually do...and both those guys are twice Brandon's age. Someone has to act like an adult and take time to reflect before going off and making things even worse.

Cat Thief
03-03-2007, 11:05 AM
It's not like he was worthless.

We wouldn't have won the World Series in 2005 without Brandon pitching so well down the stretch...because we probably would have missed the playoffs.
:rolleyes:


He's far from proven, but cut the guy some slack. If anything, he seems to be tempering his comments a lot more than Ozzie and KW usually do...and both those guys are twice Brandon's age. Someone has to act like an adult and take time to reflect before going off and making things even worse.

You are probably right, but maybe his age had a lot to do with Ozzie's latest rant.

itsnotrequired
03-03-2007, 11:13 AM
The Score is replaying the interview right now.

koch44
03-03-2007, 11:16 AM
The Score is replaying the interview right now.

You can download it here also:

http://670thescore.com/pages/153118.php?contentType=34&contentId=1800

TomBradley72
03-03-2007, 11:28 AM
Ozzie overreacted...but I think McCarthy has a little too much attitude for a kid barely past being a rookie...he always had an attitude about having to spend a year in the bullpen...more like whining...poor guy...23 years old and and he had to work with adults....well if you want to work with guys your own age...go to the Marlins where there are plenty of 'em. If I was carrying around a record of 4-7 with a 4.68 ERA (with 17 HRs in 84 IP)...I'd focus more on getting my act together than the fact that I'm young and want to party.

caulfield12
03-03-2007, 12:03 PM
Ozzie overreacted...but I think McCarthy has a little too much attitude for a kid barely past being a rookie...he always had an attitude about having to spend a year in the bullpen...more like whining...poor guy...23 years old and and he had to work with adults....well if you want to work with guys your own age...go to the Marlins where there are plenty of 'em. If I was carrying around a record of 4-7 with a 4.68 ERA (with 17 HRs in 84 IP)...I'd focus more on getting my act together than the fact that I'm young and want to party.


Hey, those stats are good enough to get you $55 million for five years, lol.

soxfanatlanta
03-03-2007, 12:03 PM
Meh.

Brandon was not happy last year with his situation here; not to mention that his performance was not so good. Of course he's going to say he had a rough go.

dickallen15
03-03-2007, 12:07 PM
When your manager is constantly popping off about players who now play for other teams, and is so outlandish he actually hints McCarthy could have been the reason the White Sox missed the playoffs, it probably tends to wear on you. Obviously Williams is not one to talk (Frank Thomas). They need to get look at how Scott Skiles handled the Chandler rip job and learn something from it. Nothing positive will come from the constant chirping. Skiles refused to take the bait, and Chandler's hatchet job becomes a non-story and he's the one who looks like a lesser man. Although I must admit, I didn't necessarily take the Williams' quote as him being annoyed with Guillen.

oeo
03-03-2007, 12:19 PM
When your manager is constantly popping off about players who now play for other teams, and is so outlandish he actually hints McCarthy could have been the reason the White Sox missed the playoffs, it probably tends to wear on you. Obviously Williams is not one to talk (Frank Thomas). They need to get look at how Scott Skiles handled the Chandler rip job and learn something from it. Nothing positive will come from the constant chirping. Skiles refused to take the bait, and Chandler's hatchet job becomes a non-story and he's the one who looks like a lesser man. Although I must admit, I didn't necessarily take the Williams' quote as him being annoyed with Guillen.

I love how you say that he just 'pops off' out of nowhere. Who had something to say first? Maggs, or Ozzie? Carl, or Ozzie? McCarthy, or Ozzie?

Maybe the problem is the players. Once Ozzie says something, the attention surrounds him, though, because they could give two ****s about Maggs, Carl, or McCarthy.

Nothing positive will ever come of it? Of course, but I haven't seen anything negative come out of it. In 2005, Maggs had his pissfest, Ozzie said some not-so-nice words, and the team went on to win a championship. I'm glad Ozzie has something to say; I cannot stand when people have bad things to say about the Sox, and either can he.

Keep being yourself, Ozzie.

dickallen15
03-03-2007, 12:26 PM
I love how you say that he just 'pops off' out of nowhere. Who had something to say first? Maggs, or Ozzie? Carl, or Ozzie? McCarthy, or Ozzie?

Maybe the problem is the players. Once Ozzie says something, the attention surrounds him, though, because they could give two ****s about Maggs, Carl, or McCarthy.

Nothing positive will ever come of it? Of course, but I haven't seen anything negative come out of it. In 2005, Maggs had his pissfest, Ozzie said some not-so-nice words, and the team went on to win a championship. I'm glad Ozzie has something to say; I cannot stand when people have bad things to say about the Sox, and either can he.

Keep being yourself, Ozzie.

It will eventually lead to Ozzie being an ex-manager. Considering your thoughts on him, I would think you would consider that negative.

oeo
03-03-2007, 12:30 PM
It will eventually lead to Ozzie being an ex-manager. Considering your thoughts on him, I would think you would consider that negative.

I don't think Ozzie will ever lose his job...he'll be here as long as he wants to stay. Kenny Williams cannot say anything about Ozzie, because he's the exact same way, minus a few expletives.

Are you....

:cleo....?

And besides, once again, we're speculating without knowing the full story. The things I've read lately, McCarthy wasn't exactly the hardest worker, and they didn't like his role in the clubhouse. Ozzie is going to come off as the bad guy, because the angel McCarthy was so classy the second time around, but I think he knows why he isn't a White Sox anymore. If you don't fit the mold, you gone.

dickallen15
03-03-2007, 12:36 PM
I don't think Ozzie will ever lose his job...he'll be here as long as he wants to stay. Kenny Williams cannot say anything about Ozzie, because he's the exact same way, minus a few expletives.

Are you....

:cleo....?

So I must be Miss Cleo with my opinion based on his boss' quote, but you just say he'll be here as long as he wants. I get it. BTW, you may have missed Kenny's quote last year when he said after the Marriotti thing that Ozzie needed to tone it down or he would unfortunately be at a microphone announcing a new White Sox manager some day.

oeo
03-03-2007, 12:39 PM
So I must be Miss Cleo with my opinion based on his boss' quote, but you just say he'll be here as long as he wants. I get it. BTW, you may have missed Kenny's quote last year when he said after the Marriotti thing that Ozzie needed to tone it down or he would unfortunately be at a microphone announcing a new White Sox manager some day.

There's a difference. You said HE WILL lose his job (like it's a proven fact...it didn't come off as an opinion), I said, I THINK he will be here as long as he wants.

I didn't miss it, but what is Kenny supposed to say? Keep calling Marriotti a ***? Kenny will not fire Ozzie, he's full of it. Ozzie is the guy that turned this organization around; they would be stupid to let him go.

soxstarter
03-03-2007, 12:42 PM
I don't think Ozzie will ever lose his job...he'll be here as long as he wants to stay. Kenny Williams cannot say anything about Ozzie, because he's the exact same way, minus a few expletives.

Are you....

:cleo....?

And besides, once again, we're speculating without knowing the full story. The things I've read lately, McCarthy wasn't exactly the hardest worker, and they didn't like his role in the clubhouse. Ozzie is going to come off as the bad guy, because the angel McCarthy was so classy the second time around, but I think he knows why he isn't a White Sox anymore. If you don't fit the mold, you gone.

I agree. Ozzie is not at risk here. It is not a matter of him pitted against KW. They have two totally different skill sets and roles in that team and both are working well together.

hose
03-03-2007, 12:48 PM
I'm tired off Ozzie's big mouth. To show you how sick I am of Gullien's media act I felt good for Phil Garner when he showed the photo of him and Ozzie shaking hands at home plate before the WS.

To say I felt good for Garner takes a lot because I had a long hate for "Scrap Iron" from his Brewer/Tiger days.

Guillen is a joke and a national embarrassment.

The Critic
03-03-2007, 12:48 PM
Ozzie is the guy that turned this organization around; they would be stupid to let him go.

"yesterday....that was yesterday...." Arnold Rothstein, Eight Men Out

If the organization feels that Ozzie is turning the organization back around, they will let him go. NO manager is above firing.

As for me, I think Ozzie should save his salvos for more significant players than Brandon McCarthy. Anything McCarthy says should be water off his back unless it's a personal attack or something much more serious than what McCarthy said. A guy grousing about (and trying to rationalize) his less-than-spectacular season is nothing, and that's what Ozzie should have considered it to be, IMO.

dickallen15
03-03-2007, 12:53 PM
There's a difference. You said HE WILL lose his job (like it's a proven fact...it didn't come off as an opinion), I said, I THINK he will be here as long as he wants.

I didn't miss it, but what is Kenny supposed to say? Keep calling Marriotti a ***? Kenny will not fire Ozzie, he's full of it. Ozzie is the guy that turned this organization around; they would be stupid to let him go.
He will lose his job if he spouts off too much and says something that will give the White Sox no choice. That's what his boss said.He hasn't learned yet. When the commissioner made him attend sensitivity training, he popped off that he would not go. (I believe he did go at least once). There are a lot of guys who could have managed the White Sox to a third place finish in 2006. Re-read your post. Think was never in it.

oeo
03-03-2007, 12:53 PM
"yesterday....that was yesterday...." Arnold Rothstein, Eight Men Out

If the organization feels that Ozzie is turning the organization back around, they will let him go. NO manager is above firing.

As for me, I think Ozzie should save his salvos for more significant players than Brandon McCarthy. Anything McCarthy says should be water off his back unless it's a personal attack or something much more serious than what McCarthy said. A guy grousing about (and trying to rationalize) his less-than-spectacular season is nothing, and that's what Ozzie should have considered it to be, IMO.

I don't think some of you understand how passionate Ozzie is about this team. He's like us. If someone says something about the Sox that you don't like, it doesn't piss you off? We should be happy to have a manager here that defends the Sox, and not a guy that just sits back and lets the organization take heat.

I think eventually, all this crap is going to stop, and not because of Ozzie, but because players are not going to want to go out of their way to say bad things about the organization. If you don't want Ozzie on your back...here's an idea: keep your mouth shut. Ozzie will defend the Sox to his grave, and I love it.

The Critic
03-03-2007, 12:56 PM
I don't think some of you understand how passionate Ozzie is about this team. He's like us. If someone says something about the Sox that you don't like, it doesn't piss you off? We should be happy to have a manager here that defends the Sox, and not a guy that just sits back and lets the organization take heat.

I think eventually, all this crap is going to stop, and not because of Ozzie, but because players are not going to want to go out of their way to say bad things about the organization. If you don't want Ozzie on your back...here's an idea: keep your mouth shut. Ozzie will defend the Sox to his grave, and I love it.

No, I get it and I like it. I just don't think he should reply to everything anyone says about the Sox. It leads to goofy sportswriters and talk show guys baiting him, and I just think that moderation and "considering the source" once in a while would benefit Ozzie and the organization. You say something about everyone and it becomes "oh, there he goes again", whether he's right or wrong.

oeo
03-03-2007, 12:56 PM
He will lose his job if he spouts off too much and says something that will give the White Sox no choice. That's what his boss said.He hasn't learned yet. When the commissioner made him attend sensitivity training, he popped off that he would not go. (I believe he did go at least once). There are a lot of guys who could have managed the White Sox to a third place finish in 2006. Re-read your post. Think was never in it.

Outside of calling Marriotti a *** (and I still feel that the word is no longer centered around homosexuals, so it wasn't his intent to degrade homosexuals, but that's another topic), what has he said that could get him fired (or even close to it). Nothing...Ozzie could say much worse things than he says, but he doesn't. So where are you pulling these God awful words that he's going to say in the future?

JermaineDye05
03-03-2007, 12:58 PM
just out of curiousity, when Brandon returns to the Cell will you be booing him or cheering him? I realize it was a totally different story with Frank, but Brandon though he was with us for a short time did help us win a world series.

oeo
03-03-2007, 12:59 PM
just out of curiousity, when Brandon returns to the Cell will you be booing him or cheering him? I realize it was a totally different story with Frank, but Brandon though he was with us for a short time did help us win a world series.

I don't have any problems with Brandon. He didn't do anything special for the Sox, so he shouldn't be cheered, but I don't think he should be booed, either. If we cheer or boo, this whole useless story is going to come back, and I think I might puke if it does. Just sit back and watch the fireworks show. :cool:

itsnotrequired
03-03-2007, 01:00 PM
just out of curiousity, when Brandon returns to the Cell will you be booing him or cheering him? I realize it was a totally different story with Frank, but Brandon though he was with us for a short time did help us win a world series.

Why anyone would boo a former player that got traded is beyond me. Its like Twins fans that boo AJ. I cheered for Frank but for a guy like Magglio, I just sat in silence.

dickallen15
03-03-2007, 01:06 PM
Outside of calling Marriotti a *** (and I still feel that the word is no longer centered around homosexuals, so it wasn't his intent to degrade homosexuals, but that's another topic), what has he said that could get him fired (or even close to it). Nothing...Ozzie could say much worse things than he says, but he doesn't. So where are you pulling these God awful words that he's going to say in the future?
I'm getting it from the fact that everytime he gets baited into saying something, he takes the bait. McCarthy never said anything very damning about Ozzie or the White Sox. In fact, Ozzie said a worse when he left the White Sox. The media understands that Ozzie takes the bait, in fact he has used the word that he called Marriotti quite frequently around them and they let it slide. Someday, somebody is going to want to break a big story and they will see Ozzie coming and will try to bait him into saying something totally outrageous. Hopefully someone will get through to him before this happens, but I have a feeling no one will. Ozzie has a big ego, and he truely doesn't think what he says is wrong, so he probably won't change.

oeo
03-03-2007, 01:11 PM
I'm getting it from the fact that everytime he gets baited into saying something, he takes the bait. McCarthy never said anything very damning about Ozzie or the White Sox. In fact, Ozzie said a worse when he left the White Sox. The media understands that Ozzie takes the bait, in fact he has used the word that he called Marriotti quite frequently around them and they let it slide. Someday, somebody is going to want to break a big story and they will see Ozzie coming and will try to bait him into saying something totally outrageous. Hopefully someone will get through to him before this happens, but I have a feeling no one will. Ozzie has a big ego, and he truely doesn't think what he says is wrong, so he probably won't change.

I don't know if this is true, but it just proves a point. The media runs with everything. They obviously don't feel that strongly about the word, so why did they make a big issue out of it in the first place? They're just looking for news stories, and Ozzie gives them. Maybe they can come up with something new next time, because this player vs. Ozzie crap we get from the media every year is boooooring.

caulfield12
03-03-2007, 01:21 PM
I don't know if this is true, but it just proves a point. The media runs with everything. They obviously don't feel that strongly about the word, so why did they make a big issue out of it in the first place? They're just looking for news stories, and Ozzie gives them. Maybe they can come up with something new next time, because this player vs. Ozzie crap we get from the media every year is boooooring.

The question is, does it sell papers? Would people really rather read about Everson Walls donating a kidney to Ron Springs, or about Paris Hilton having her license suspended, or what's going to happen to Anna Nicole Smith's body?

It's the tabloidization of the mainstream mean...slash and burn reporting.

Ozzie gives them plenty of material...they don't have to write stories, he provides a week-long media cycle every time he opens his mouth.

A. Cavatica
03-03-2007, 01:22 PM
Missing the playoffs because of McCarthy? :o: Ozzie needs to look no further than himself for the reason they missed the playoffs. Running Mackowiak out to CF over and over again, leaving the starters in too long repeatedly, making unnecessary substitutions and being caught short when games went into extra innings had quite a lot to do with it as well...

If the Sox miss the playoffs this season Ozzie's job will be in jeopardy.

southside rocks
03-03-2007, 01:23 PM
Hard to imagine that Ozzie's verbal slaps of McCarthy, or any similar conduct, would get Ozzie fired when he has a consistent winning record and the team has set all-time attendance records during his tenure as manager. Jerry Reinsdorf isn't going to cut off his financial nose to spite his face. And Ozzie isn't going to be ordered to sensitivity training for saying that Brandon and Brian partied too hard in 2006.

The Sox have traded a bunch of players this winter. Has Ozzie bleeped off about Ross Gload? About Neal Cotts? About Freddie Garcia? No. Just McCarthy. And why is that?

Gee, could it be because McCarthy opened his mouth first?

Like some of the Mets vets told Lastings Milledge last year: "Know your place, Rook."

People sure do love to get upset about Ozzie, though. It's kind of funny!

oeo
03-03-2007, 01:35 PM
Missing the playoffs because of McCarthy? :o: Ozzie needs to look no further than himself for the reason they missed the playoffs. Running Mackowiak out to CF over and over again, leaving the starters in too long repeatedly, making unnecessary substitutions and being caught short when games went into extra innings had quite a lot to do with it as well...

If the Sox miss the playoffs this season Ozzie's job will be in jeopardy.

He said we might be in the playoffs, and although I don't agree with him in that respect, some of your points are BS. For instance, "leaving the starters in there too long." Would you have rather have had Boone Logan? Look at the bullpen, he didn't have much of choice. And his 'unnecessary' substitutions have been around since day one. They're not 'unnecessary' when they work, are they? No one will give Ozzie the credit when he brings in a pinch hitter that actually gets the job done, but if it doesn't work, it's his fault.

It all comes down to the players performing, and they didn't do it last year. Ozzie has a lot of confidence in his players, and they didn't get the job done; it's as simple as that.

Are you serious that his job will be in jeopardy? *****...he's the reason the expectations are so high. Who are we going to bring in, Dusty Baker? Ozzie isn't even close to losing his job, who are you kidding?

soxfan13
03-03-2007, 01:39 PM
Missing the playoffs because of McCarthy? :o: Ozzie needs to look no further than himself for the reason they missed the playoffs. Running Mackowiak out to CF over and over again, leaving the starters in too long repeatedly, making unnecessary substitutions and being caught short when games went into extra innings had quite a lot to do with it as well...

If the Sox miss the playoffs this season Ozzie's job will be in jeopardy.

I dont think so. Maybe if they had a few seasons of below .500 ball, his job would be in jeapardy. As long as this team stays very competitive and doesnt get decimated with injuries, I think the job is Ozzies for as long as he pleases.

ewokpelts
03-03-2007, 01:44 PM
*** - God forbid the White Sox have some constructive criticism for a rookie who struggled last year.

.

that may be no such thing as "constructive criticism" when your manager is in sensitivity training and laughing about it.

soxfanatlanta
03-03-2007, 01:52 PM
I dont think so. Maybe if they had a few seasons of below .500 ball, his job would be in jeapardy. As long as this team stays very competitive and doesnt get decimated with injuries, I think the job is Ozzies for as long as he pleases.

IMO: As long as KW is the GM, Ozzie's job is safe.

Cat Thief
03-03-2007, 02:06 PM
that may be no such thing as "constructive criticism" when your manager is in sensitivity training and laughing about it.

Yeah I'm sure part of Brandon's trash talking wasn't about Coop.

caulfield12
03-03-2007, 02:07 PM
Missing the playoffs because of McCarthy? :o: Ozzie needs to look no further than himself for the reason they missed the playoffs. Running Mackowiak out to CF over and over again, leaving the starters in too long repeatedly, making unnecessary substitutions and being caught short when games went into extra innings had quite a lot to do with it as well...

If the Sox miss the playoffs this season Ozzie's job will be in jeopardy.


Who would you prefer to manage the White Sox? Manuel had one REALLY good half season in 2000 and that bought him four more seasons, after getting shut out in the playoffs.

champagne030
03-03-2007, 02:18 PM
Missing the playoffs because of McCarthy? :o: Ozzie needs to look no further than himself for the reason they missed the playoffs. Running Mackowiak out to CF over and over again, leaving the starters in too long repeatedly, making unnecessary substitutions and being caught short when games went into extra innings had quite a lot to do with it as well...



:yup:

Ozzie cost us more games with that move than Brandon could've done in several seasons.

chaerulez
03-03-2007, 02:33 PM
Rogers wrote a decent column on the topic:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-070302rogersim,1,5709995.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

Basically it says what these former players are saying aren't headline stuff, so Ozzie should just perhaps say either a "no comment" or "I don't agree with what [former player] said, but lets move on".

chaerulez
03-03-2007, 02:38 PM
It's amusing to me that people blame the Score for the story. I don't like North, but he only asked Ozzie about McCarthy's performance. Ozzie then went off about his comments. Ozzie was the one who brought the whole thing up.

I am surprised about this too. If you actually listen to the interview, North asked some softball questions and Ozzie ran with it. As for Ozzie apologists, if Ozzie wanted to bring up the fact that he didn't think McCarthy was 100 percent dedicated to his job because he was out at the bars all night, fine. But the two big things he shouldn't have done was imply that the White Sox could have made the playoffs without him, even though you could pin 5 to 7 losses on Ozzie last year himself (Playing Mack at CF way too much, bad bullpen usage, leaving Vazquez in too late) and then throw Brian Anderson's name out there. Doing those two things was pretty big league in my opinion, just like when he went off on Tracey last season. To this day I still don't understand why it was Sean Tracey's job to hit someone when Vazquez was the guy that should've done it.

mjmcend
03-03-2007, 03:04 PM
I'm not defending Ozzie's handling of the situation here, but I wouldn't exactly call McCarthy a "class act" with better PR smarts in this situation. I believe McCarthy said this:



*** - God forbid the White Sox have some constructive criticism for a rookie who struggled last year.

He also made some comments about the atmosphere in the Sox clubhouse - which I find puzzling because I have a hard time believing people like Buehrle, Konerko, Thome, and Crede are hard to get along with.

McCarthy's comments were much more benign than Ozzie's rant. McCarthy placed no blame on anyone, nor implied that the team would be better off without Ozzie.

AnkleSox
03-03-2007, 06:21 PM
yeah, the same ones buying all those joe crede jerseys. maybe that's why B MAC was let go. He wasnt "sexy" enough to sell $200 jerseys.

This is kind of a hijack, but I think there's plenty of real sox fans that could be considered heavy partiers.

soxinem1
03-03-2007, 07:18 PM
Ozzie needs to learn to keep his mouth shut. He doesn't need to respond to every comment made about him or the team.

Neither does his boss, Kenny Williams. Far too often they are thin skinned and vindictive. Enough already. Take care of business and quit worrying about your offended egos or sensibilities.

These are both excellent points. While I understand that the truth hurts sometimes, they should also realize that other major leaguers read papers and listen to radio shows, and may thnk twice about wanting to come here if the GM and Field Manager go postal everytime someone says that life as a White Sox is not pure heaven.

A. Cavatica
03-03-2007, 09:30 PM
He said we might be in the playoffs, and although I don't agree with him in that respect, some of your points are BS. For instance, "leaving the starters in there too long." Would you have rather have had Boone Logan? Look at the bullpen, he didn't have much of choice.

Ozzie had better options than Logan, who wasn't with the team for most of the season. And if he hadn't worn out his pen playing lefty-righty matchups I think he would have gotten a lot more mileage out of McCarthy and Cotts and Riske and whoever.

But anyway, if Vazquez was pitching, it was the third time though the lineup, and the other team started hitting him hard, then yes, I would rather have had Boone Logan in there. Or if Freddy was pitching, didn't have his fastball, and someone made an error behind him, then yes. Not the first time I saw those pitchers self-destruct in exactly the same way, and not the second, and maybe not the third -- but every fan in the damn ballpark learned to recognize the patterns and groan reflexively because we knew what was coming. I think it's fair to blame Ozzie for not recognizing that things that worked in 2005 were not working in 2006.

And his 'unnecessary' substitutions have been around since day one. They're not 'unnecessary' when they work, are they? No one will give Ozzie the credit when he brings in a pinch hitter that actually gets the job done, but if it doesn't work, it's his fault.

Yes, they have been around since day one. Ozzie has never been a good in-game manager, except for the 2005 playoffs, when everything he touched turned to gold.

The last pinch hitter I remember who (1) wasn't the orthodox move and (2) still succeeded was...Kelly Dransfeldt. Who are you referring to? One successful pinch hit by Timo (out of all the failed ones)?

Anyway, last season there were several games where Ozzie pulled a relief pitcher who did well against one or two batters in the sixth or seventh, and he ran out of reliable guys by the ninth. And there were several games last season where he pulled some move in a tie game that took Konerko or Thome out of the lineup; the Sox invariably lost these games in extras.


It all comes down to the players performing, and they didn't do it last year. Ozzie has a lot of confidence in his players, and they didn't get the job done; it's as simple as that.


Ozzie's season as a manager was as bad as Buehrle's or Anderson's or Uribe's as a player. Mackowiak in center was not Mack's fault, and McCarthy as a setup man was not McCarthy's fault.


Are you serious that his job will be in jeopardy? *****...he's the reason the expectations are so high. Who are we going to bring in, Dusty Baker? Ozzie isn't even close to losing his job, who are you kidding?

Quite serious. Managers who shoot their mouths off have a short shelf life.

Ozzie's the reason expectations are so high? Show me a reputable source who's written that Ozzie is a good manager who gets the most out of his team, not just unpredictable or entertaining. Show me a game where he outsmarted the other manager. I think expectations are high because of the $100 million payroll and the talent they run out there, not because of Ozzie.

rdivaldi
03-03-2007, 09:56 PM
Well, time to get Arnold out....

:whocares

This is soap opera nonsense, I heard the interview and it was tame. This is media sensationalism at its finest....

RadioheadRocks
03-03-2007, 09:59 PM
This is soap opera nonsense, I heard the interview and it was tame. This is media sensationalism at its finest....


Exactly, leave it to the media to make more mountains out of molehills than the Wonderbra. :D:

JB98
03-03-2007, 10:09 PM
The question is, does it sell papers? Would people really rather read about Everson Walls donating a kidney to Ron Springs, or about Paris Hilton having her license suspended, or what's going to happen to Anna Nicole Smith's body?

It's the tabloidization of the mainstream mean...slash and burn reporting.

Ozzie gives them plenty of material...they don't have to write stories, he provides a week-long media cycle every time he opens his mouth.

Bingo. I work for a newspaper. My superiors encourage me to play up bull**** like this.

I know it's bull****, but I'm not in charge.

vegyrex
03-03-2007, 10:10 PM
Missing the playoffs because of McCarthy? :o:himself for the reason they missed the playoffs. Running Mackowiak out to CF over and over again, leaving the starters in too long repeatedly, making unnecessary substitutions and being caught short when games went into extra innings had quite a lot to do with it as well...

If the Sox miss the playoffs this season Ozzie's job will be in jeopardy. Ozzie needs to look no further than

You forgot to use teal for this post. :wink:

vegyrex
03-03-2007, 10:14 PM
Guillen is a joke and a national embarrassment.

If that joke and national embarrassment gets us another world series title, I'll gladly take it.

JB98
03-03-2007, 10:16 PM
If that joke and national embarrassment gets us another world series title, I'll gladly take it.

Agree 100 percent. Words are only words. I judge people on actions.

A. Cavatica
03-03-2007, 10:23 PM
You forgot to use teal for this post. :wink:

Fixed it for you.

oeo
03-03-2007, 10:27 PM
Ozzie had better options than Logan, who wasn't with the team for most of the season. And if he hadn't worn out his pen playing lefty-righty matchups I think he would have gotten a lot more mileage out of McCarthy and Cotts and Riske and whoever.

Who were the better options? Politte? Cotts? Riske? McCarthy? I could go on and on...the only three guys that were any good were Thornton, MacDougal, and Jenks...and they can't pitch all the time. That bullpen was awful, he didn't have much of a choice.

But anyway, if Vazquez was pitching, it was the third time though the lineup, and the other team started hitting him hard, then yes, I would rather have had Boone Logan in there. Or if Freddy was pitching, didn't have his fastball, and someone made an error behind him, then yes. Not the first time I saw those pitchers self-destruct in exactly the same way, and not the second, and maybe not the third -- but every fan in the damn ballpark learned to recognize the patterns and groan reflexively because we knew what was coming. I think it's fair to blame Ozzie for not recognizing that things that worked in 2005 were not working in 2006.It didn't matter whether he kept Vazquez in or brought in a middle reliever...runs were going to score. We didn't have any middle relief last year, so once again, Ozzie didn't have much of a choice until it got to the later innings when he could use Thornton, MacDougal, or Jenks (and in the first half, only Jenks).

Yes, they have been around since day one. Ozzie has never been a good in-game manager, except for the 2005 playoffs, when everything he touched turned to gold.

The last pinch hitter I remember who (1) wasn't the orthodox move and (2) still succeeded was...Kelly Dransfeldt. Who are you referring to? One successful pinch hit by Timo (out of all the failed ones)?Ozzie takes a lot of chances, and doesn't go by the book, but he still manages the game well. The bullpen may be a different story, but last year, it wouldn't have mattered who he put in there, it was basically garbage.

Anyway, last season there were several games where Ozzie pulled a relief pitcher who did well against one or two batters in the sixth or seventh, and he ran out of reliable guys by the ninth. And there were several games last season where he pulled some move in a tie game that took Konerko or Thome out of the lineup; the Sox invariably lost these games in extras.I'm not a real big fan of the way he manages the bullpen, either. But, he goes with his gut feeling, and I don't remember people complaining in 2005 when it worked (because his bullpen got the job done). Once again, it comes down to the players performing, and they did not do that last year.

Ozzie's season as a manager was as bad as Buehrle's or Anderson's or Uribe's as a player. Mackowiak in center was not Mack's fault, and McCarthy as a setup man was not McCarthy's fault.This right here is what you call pulling something out of your ass. There's no way you can tell me that Ozzie had a bad year as a manager, because there's no way of measuring that. AND ONCE AGAIN, if the players don't perform, it doesn't matter who's managing, you're not going to get far.

Ozzie's the reason expectations are so high? Show me a reputable source who's written that Ozzie is a good manager who gets the most out of his team, not just unpredictable or entertaining. Show me a game where he outsmarted the other manager. I think expectations are high because of the $100 million payroll and the talent they run out there, not because of Ozzie.When did this team make a turn around? When Ozzie came here. Their expectations are high because they won a championship two years ago, and Ozzie was a big reason that happened. We would still be waiting if Ozzie was never hired.

caulfield12
03-03-2007, 10:45 PM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-070304rogers,1,1181067.column?coll=cs-home-headlines

Thanks for keeping the story alive Phil...did the Trib send you down this weekend to fan the flames or were you already there?

caulfield12
03-03-2007, 10:49 PM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-070303soxbrite,1,3477179.story?coll=cs-home-headlines

JB98
03-03-2007, 10:55 PM
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/cs-070304rogers,1,1181067.column?coll=cs-home-headlines

Thanks for keeping the story alive Phil...did the Trib send you down this weekend to fan the flames or were you already there?

Rogers just has a man-crush on the "polished workhorse," doesn't he?

We get it, Phil. You didn't like the trade. Next please.

caulfield12
03-03-2007, 10:58 PM
It's almost like he's a jilted lover on this McCarthy thing...maybe he thought he was all set for 5 more years of "insider quotes" and "off the record" interviews with Brandon about the inner workings of the Sox clubhouse?

He's also more obsessed with this story that Robert Graysmith in "Zodiac," if that's possible.

soxwon
03-04-2007, 12:04 AM
Ozzie has a sports bar? in Niles is this true?

thomas35forever
03-04-2007, 12:12 AM
Thank God. Now maybe the media won't blow this story out of proportion.

TommyJohn
03-04-2007, 12:15 AM
This always happens with Guillen. I feel as if I am watching the movie
Groundhog Day. Guillen will have to do all this with all of his ex-players
until he gets it right.

oeo
03-04-2007, 12:15 AM
Thank God. Now maybe the media won't blow this story out of proportion.

They're 10 steps ahead of you.

itsnotrequired
03-04-2007, 12:16 AM
Ozzie has a sports bar? in Niles is this true?

I felled him in a drinking contest there.*



*Disclaimer: Event may not have happened.

ChiSoxGirl
03-04-2007, 12:20 AM
Ozzie has a sports bar? in Niles is this true?

:?: I read the article, so I'm not quite sure where this question came from.

Anyway, there's a place in Niles called "Ozzie's Sports Bar" on Waukegan where it meets Milwaukee, but I don't think it's Guillen's place.

Brian26
03-04-2007, 12:30 AM
Guillen will have to do all this with all of his ex-players until he gets it right.

Except for Timo and Sandy Alomar Jr (because they left on good terms), as Ozzie pointed out in yesterday's article :D:

caulfield12
03-04-2007, 07:48 AM
As far as his friend's comments about the clubhouse, Anderson has a theory on that, too.

"Brandon jokes around a lot, but at the same time, I think he's just a little sore (bleep) from getting traded," Anderson said.

After all the jabs and misunderstandings, Guillen and McCarthy both say they consider the matter over.

from suntimes.com

dickallen15
03-04-2007, 07:48 AM
Who were the better options? Politte? Cotts? Riske? McCarthy? I could go on and on...the only three guys that were any good were Thornton, MacDougal, and Jenks...and they can't pitch all the time. That bullpen was awful, he didn't have much of a choice.

It didn't matter whether he kept Vazquez in or brought in a middle reliever...runs were going to score. We didn't have any middle relief last year, so once again, Ozzie didn't have much of a choice until it got to the later innings when he could use Thornton, MacDougal, or Jenks (and in the first half, only Jenks).

Ozzie takes a lot of chances, and doesn't go by the book, but he still manages the game well. The bullpen may be a different story, but last year, it wouldn't have mattered who he put in there, it was basically garbage.

I'm not a real big fan of the way he manages the bullpen, either. But, he goes with his gut feeling, and I don't remember people complaining in 2005 when it worked (because his bullpen got the job done). Once again, it comes down to the players performing, and they did not do that last year.

This right here is what you call pulling something out of your ass. There's no way you can tell me that Ozzie had a bad year as a manager, because there's no way of measuring that. AND ONCE AGAIN, if the players don't perform, it doesn't matter who's managing, you're not going to get far.

When did this team make a turn around? When Ozzie came here. Their expectations are high because they won a championship two years ago, and Ozzie was a big reason that happened. We would still be waiting if Ozzie was never hired.
If you're going to give Ozzie all the credit for the WS (I tend to want to give it to the pitching staff) then you must give him the blame when they lose. He had the highest payroll in the division his 3 years as manager so far and with the biggest gap came in third. (Again I think it was because of the pitching staff). When they hired him, I really thought he'd be a train wreck, and he proved me wrong. I do think he's a good manager. I just hope someone can get through to him before he embarrasses himself out of a job.

caulfield12
03-04-2007, 08:09 AM
http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/whitesox.asp?id=287052

PaleHoseGeorge
03-04-2007, 09:09 AM
Well, this story seems to have pretty much run its course. Time for the next one!

If the Ozzie-is-a-petty-no-good son-of-a-bitch story isn't available, I'm guessing we can expect next the A.J.-is-a-petty-no-good-son-of-a-bitch story.

The local media is nothing if not predictable.

:cool:

UserNameBlank
03-04-2007, 09:37 AM
Well, this story seems to have pretty much run its course. Time for the next one!

If the Ozzie-is-a-petty-no-good son-of-a-bitch story isn't available, I'm guessing we can expect next the A.J.-is-a-petty-no-good-son-of-a-bitch story.

The local media is nothing if not predictable.

:cool:

Wait for the first regular season series against the Rangers. It will pop up again and well get to hear all the same interviews played over the air just to remind us that each side has "something extra to prove". How fun...

ChiSox14305635
03-04-2007, 10:19 AM
Well, this story seems to have pretty much run its course. Time for the next one!

If the Ozzie-is-a-petty-no-good son-of-a-bitch story isn't available, I'm guessing we can expect next the A.J.-is-a-petty-no-good-son-of-a-bitch story.

The local media is nothing if not predictable.

:cool:

Close. :D: http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/281989,CST-SPT-sox04.article

The "AJ is a bad guy, yet so misunderstood" thread.

chaerulez
03-04-2007, 10:57 AM
Ozzie has a sports bar? in Niles is this true?

What does this have to do with the topic?

tick53
03-04-2007, 11:10 AM
Well, this story seems to have pretty much run its course. Time for the next one!

If the Ozzie-is-a-petty-no-good son-of-a-bitch story isn't available, I'm guessing we can expect next the A.J.-is-a-petty-no-good-son-of-a-bitch story.

The local media is nothing if not predictable.

:cool:

Exactly! The two "Hit & Run" numbnuts spent a lot of time this morning on the Ozzie topic. I guess Ofman couldn't wait to trash Oz. He had to dredge up the Ordonez thing again. Pienella also has a history of roasting some of his players.

Frontman
03-04-2007, 11:24 AM
Except for Timo and Sandy Alomar Jr (because they left on good terms), as Ozzie pointed out in yesterday's article :D:

I didn't recall any bad comments from Ozzie concerning Rowand either. Quite the opposite, in fact.

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Frontman
03-04-2007, 11:26 AM
Wait for the first regular season series against the Rangers. It will pop up again and well get to hear all the same interviews played over the air just to remind us that each side has "something extra to prove". How fun...

One thing that the Score does poorly, is bringing up dirt (dirt I might add they created in this situation, as it was an old story when North brought it up to Ozzie) just to get airplay. It disappoints me, but then again, ESPN does the same. It's just media garbage.

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Rowandws33
03-04-2007, 12:56 PM
maybe Anderson's at bat music should be IT's hard out there for a pimp.hahahah

IndianWhiteSox
03-04-2007, 12:56 PM
One thing that the Score does poorly, is bringing up dirt (dirt I might add they created in this situation, as it was an old story when North brought it up to Ozzie) just to get airplay. It disappoints me, but then again, ESPN does the same. It's just media garbage.

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Its the score what else would you expect. But thank god we can talk about actual baseball and not this crap over and over again. The only way Guillen will bring this team down is if he's too stubborn to adjust what's going on in the game.

IndianWhiteSox
03-04-2007, 01:02 PM
If you're going to give Ozzie all the credit for the WS (I tend to want to give it to the pitching staff) then you must give him the blame when they lose. He had the highest payroll in the division his 3 years as manager so far and with the biggest gap came in third. (Again I think it was because of the pitching staff). When they hired him, I really thought he'd be a train wreck, and he proved me wrong. I do think he's a good manager. I just hope someone can get through to him before he embarrasses himself out of a job.

The only way that will happen is if he does stupid things like putting Mack in CF when time and time again, it's not working. Let's face it, this whole BS about Ozzie being a loud mouth is as irrelevant as what ESPN thinks about the White Sox. Now if Ozzie manages this team out of a playoff berth again than we can say what Dick Allen said. By the way, I say that he costed the SOX in 2006 because instead of forcing KW's hand to get a back-up CF at the trade deadline, he justs keeps troting Mac out there, thus deflating that whole pitching staff. Because as one of the posters mentioned, the game is 95% mental.

JorgeFabregas
03-04-2007, 01:07 PM
Once again, I'll point out that the Score did not ask Ozzie what he thought about McCarthy's comments. North described McCarthy as serviceable and asked Ozzie about his performance. Ozzie then changed the subject to McCarthy's comments.

IndianWhiteSox
03-04-2007, 01:16 PM
Once again, I'll point out that the Score did not ask Ozzie what he thought about McCarthy's comments. North described McCarthy as serviceable and asked Ozzie about his performance. Ozzie then changed the subject to McCarthy's comments.

I'm aware of that as I listened to the podcast from India, but still the score isn't that great.

jabrch
03-04-2007, 01:39 PM
The more we talk about it - the more it remains an issue. But it's spring training - what else is there to talk about?

I really couldn't care less what Ozzie says about players who aren't here, or even ones who are. It's just Ozzie being Ozzie. I'm looking forward to baseball so we can move past some of the other crap.

IndianWhiteSox
03-04-2007, 01:49 PM
The more we talk about it - the more it remains an issue. But it's spring training - what else is there to talk about?

I really couldn't care less what Ozzie says about players who aren't here, or even ones who are. It's just Ozzie being Ozzie. I'm looking forward to baseball so we can move past some of the other crap.

Good post! Couldn't have said it better myself.
:cool:

caulfield12
03-04-2007, 01:57 PM
The only way that will happen is if he does stupid things like putting Mack in CF when time and time again, it's not working. Let's face it, this whole BS about Ozzie being a loud mouth is as irrelevant as what ESPN thinks about the White Sox. Now if Ozzie manages this team out of a playoff berth again than we can say what Dick Allen said. By the way, I say that he costed the SOX in 2006 because instead of forcing KW's hand to get a back-up CF at the trade deadline, he justs keeps troting Mac out there, thus deflating that whole pitching staff. Because as one of the posters mentioned, the game is 95% mental.

Maybe he was putting Mackowiak out there to send a signal to KW that his hands were tied with the personnel on the roster? Do you really think Ozzie thought that Rob was adequate? Why didn't KW make a move? We could all see it the first few games Rob was out there, obviously KW, being the astute baseball observer....could as well.

WizardsofOzzie
03-04-2007, 02:04 PM
Maybe he was putting Mackowiak out there to send a signal to KW that his hands were tied with the personnel on the roster? Do you really think Ozzie thought that Rob was adequate? Why didn't KW make a move? We could all see it the first few games Rob was out there, obviously KW, being the astute baseball observer....could as well.
Yes, Ozzie purposely sent out a man who shouldn't be in CF to stink up the place, and cause us to lose ballgames, all for the sake of sending a message to KW that we need a better backup CF. :rolleyes:

IndianWhiteSox
03-04-2007, 02:05 PM
Yes, Ozzie purposely sent out a man who shouldn't be in CF to stink up the place, and cause us to lose ballgames, all for the sake of sending a message to KW that we need a better backup CF. :rolleyes:

Well, now I know why Erstad was signed.

caulfield12
03-04-2007, 02:15 PM
Yes, Ozzie purposely sent out a man who shouldn't be in CF to stink up the place, and cause us to lose ballgames, all for the sake of sending a message to KW that we need a better backup CF. :rolleyes:


Simply, OG knew Mackowiak was horrible, but still felt his horrible defense might outweigh BA's horrible offense...

I'm not going to debate that with all the BA supporters (about how he would have fully recovered last season if he played everyday in June, July and August when he started to show signs of improvement)...but obviously Ozzie didn't trust BA, just like he didn't trust the bullpen.

When you have 4-5 players on your roster you can't trust to get the job done, it makes it hard to be a good manager, no matter how well you know the game.

Domeshot17
03-04-2007, 02:30 PM
Simply, OG knew Mackowiak was horrible, but still felt his horrible defense might outweigh BA's horrible offense...

I'm not going to debate that with all the BA supporters (about how he would have fully recovered last season if he played everyday in June, July and August when he started to show signs of improvement)...but obviously Ozzie didn't trust BA, just like he didn't trust the bullpen.

When you have 4-5 players on your roster you can't trust to get the job done, it makes it hard to be a good manager, no matter how well you know the game.

Part of me thinks it was nothing more then Ozzie's attitude. I love Ozzie, but he has this, I'm Ozzie Guillen I will say or do what I want thought process. Part of me wonders the more the media and fans said " you can't play mack in center, Ozune in left" the more he wanted to prove them wrong. I think Ozzie catches too much flack for his mouth, but he hurt us more then he helped last year. This year he really needs to keep his mouth shut and manage, because like it or not when he gets into this tirades with reporters and other players, its a distraction.

ilsox7
03-04-2007, 02:34 PM
Part of me thinks it was nothing more then Ozzie's attitude. I love Ozzie, but he has this, I'm Ozzie Guillen I will say or do what I want thought process. Part of me wonders the more the media and fans said " you can't play mack in center, Ozune in left" the more he wanted to prove them wrong. I think Ozzie catches too much flack for his mouth, but he hurt us more then he helped last year. This year he really needs to keep his mouth shut and manage, because like it or not when he gets into this tirades with reporters and other players, its a distraction.

How do you know Ozzie was a distraction? Were you a part of the clubhouse? Have you seen one player come out and say Ozzie was a distraction last year and hurt the team? Even the players that leave the team and rip the Sox don't seem to bring up Ozzie as a distraction. It seems like it's only the media and misguided fans who do so. Hell, I bet the players think it's hilarious that Ozzie seemingly is the center of the firestorm. Let him deal with the **** while they play ball.

caulfield12
03-04-2007, 02:57 PM
Part of me thinks it was nothing more then Ozzie's attitude. I love Ozzie, but he has this, I'm Ozzie Guillen I will say or do what I want thought process. Part of me wonders the more the media and fans said " you can't play mack in center, Ozune in left" the more he wanted to prove them wrong. I think Ozzie catches too much flack for his mouth, but he hurt us more then he helped last year. This year he really needs to keep his mouth shut and manage, because like it or not when he gets into this tirades with reporters and other players, its a distraction.

The fact is, our best stretch of baseball came last year in the middle of the Mariotti fiasco, although part of the explanation is the fact we were playing the NL Central...

jabrch
03-04-2007, 04:57 PM
How do you know Ozzie was a distraction?...

Hell, I bet the players think it's hilarious that Ozzie seemingly is the center of the firestorm. Let him deal with the **** while they play ball.

That's the funny part to me. Know it alls in the media and the fanbase all seem to know what a problem Ozzie is. Short of a few of his former players, (and not that many) I have yet to hear much of anyone have bad things to say about playing for Guillen.

He's loud - he's obnoxious - but I have yet to see that harm this club in a tangible manner.

Ziggy S
03-04-2007, 06:20 PM
One thing that the Score does poorly, is bringing up dirt (dirt I might add they created in this situation, as it was an old story when North brought it up to Ozzie) just to get airplay. It disappoints me, but then again, ESPN does the same. It's just media garbage.

Front
Of course, that's just one things among many the Score does wrong (and the East Coast Propaganda 4 Letter Network, as well).

rusjam1961
03-05-2007, 10:21 AM
Good luck to Brandon, I hope he can keep the ball down in Texas better than he did here last year. The guy just might have a bright future. Better luck to our guys and Ozzie, keep up the good work. Oz is our Ringmaster for the new "Greatest Show on Earth". And what a fun circus it is.

spawn
03-05-2007, 10:38 AM
Of course, that's just one things among many the Score does wrong (and the East Coast Propaganda 4 Letter Network, as well).
I can't stand Mike North. I listened to that interview, and it seemed like North was trying to start some kind of contreversy...He was throwing out everything in the hopes one would stick. For example: he was trying to start crap with Lovie's contract situation. Why even bring that up? And everyone knows NFL head coaches get paid more than MBL managers. It's not even an issue, yet North tried to make it one.

Domeshot17
03-05-2007, 10:48 AM
How do you know Ozzie was a distraction? Were you a part of the clubhouse? Have you seen one player come out and say Ozzie was a distraction last year and hurt the team? Even the players that leave the team and rip the Sox don't seem to bring up Ozzie as a distraction. It seems like it's only the media and misguided fans who do so. Hell, I bet the players think it's hilarious that Ozzie seemingly is the center of the firestorm. Let him deal with the **** while they play ball.

I more meant he is a distraction to himself. I think last year everyone had the World Series hangover. Everyone just expected the pieces to fall in place and they didn't. This year, we are coming off nothing but a 3rd place finish. 90 wins or not, we finished 3rd last year, and with the bar set as high as it is, that is not acceptable. We get into the playoffs, Ozzie can talk all he wants. Right now though I would like to see him put a muzzle on it for a while.

ilsox7
03-05-2007, 02:39 PM
I more meant he is a distraction to himself. I think last year everyone had the World Series hangover. Everyone just expected the pieces to fall in place and they didn't. This year, we are coming off nothing but a 3rd place finish. 90 wins or not, we finished 3rd last year, and with the bar set as high as it is, that is not acceptable. We get into the playoffs, Ozzie can talk all he wants. Right now though I would like to see him put a muzzle on it for a while.

It's not going to happen. Ozzie talks. He did so as a player and he'll do so as a manager. He got this job b/c he was brutally honest with KW. He's not going to change. And not one player has said he has become a distraction. If he's a distraction to himself, he's been so for his entire career.

maurice
03-05-2007, 04:10 PM
Rogers just has a man-crush on the "polished workhorse," doesn't he?

There's no question. He loves McCarthy (now that he's gone) and is convinced (for no apparent reason) that none of the young players still in the Sox org. will be any good in 2007. It must be killing him that most of these guys look pretty damn good so far this spring.

I love how he proves that McCarthy is "established" by dissecting his stats "after July 4" but refuses give Anderson the benefit of the same sort of analysis.
:rolleyes:

Frontman
03-05-2007, 07:52 PM
I can't stand Mike North. I listened to that interview, and it seemed like North was trying to start some kind of contreversy...He was throwing out everything in the hopes one would stick. For example: he was trying to start crap with Lovie's contract situation. Why even bring that up? And everyone knows NFL head coaches get paid more than MBL managers. It's not even an issue, yet North tried to make it one.

And considering today's interview with Lance Briggs, you are spot-on Spawn. The Score has in the past few weeks tried more than once to create a Chicago sports contreversy (as it is a pretty dry time in Chicago sports, but come on now) and its all been on North's show. Hell, going back to the Superbowl, wasn't North one of the guy's starting trouble with Michael Straihan (sp?) in broadcasters row?

Between that, and Mike Murphy's (sorry, I had to bring him up) BS of starting arguments once again with Terry Boers over Santo; McCarthy-gate, and then the blatant leading of Ozzie into getting pissed, I'm getting real sick of the Score, at least everything prior to 2pm. (Mully and Hanley shouldn't say the word boo about any sort of conflict, considering the blatant disreguard to honest journalism their paper showed with throwing the race card into the Lovie Smith contract talks, so I get pretty disgusted every time they mention "The Bright One.")

You know its sad when Boers and Bernstein have been the most reasonable local sports show.

*sigh*

Anyways. Let 'em talk. But honestly, North's contract couldn't come up soon enough if he keeps this type of malarky going.

Front