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caulfield12
03-02-2007, 08:07 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/279795,CST-SPT-soxnt02.article

AuroraSoxFan
03-02-2007, 08:18 AM
Glad he could get some quality pitches in. Could someone explain why it is hard to get that kind of movement in AZ? If it is due to the heat/dryness he may experience the same kind of conditions over the summer.

soxfanatlanta
03-02-2007, 08:21 AM
Glad he could get some quality pitches in. Could someone explain why it is hard to get that kind of movement in AZ? If it is due to the heat/dryness he may experience the same kind of conditions over the summer.

Tucson is 2389 FT above sea level, and very dry which are two big factors. No worries man, his pitches should have no problem in the Chicago heat and humidity.

AuroraSoxFan
03-02-2007, 08:26 AM
Tucson is 2389 FT above sea level, and very dry which are two big factors. No worries man, his pitches should have no problem in the Chicago heat and humidity.

Do those conditions work against low speed pitches and make the ball die out prematurely?

caulfield12
03-02-2007, 08:27 AM
http://snr.unl.edu/metr351-03/eneemann/ballpressure.html

Hope this article helps...I'm an English teacher and not a physics one, lol.

Part of it is the "drag" created by "humidity" versus drier air, part of it is the altitude.

caulfield12
03-02-2007, 08:28 AM
Do those conditions work against low speed pitches and make the ball die out prematurely?

Actually, the opposite...the conditions don't allow the ball to "work" like it should, making the pitch more like a "normal" change-up essentially.

AuroraSoxFan
03-02-2007, 08:34 AM
http://snr.unl.edu/metr351-03/eneemann/ballpressure.html

Hope this article helps...I'm an English teacher and not a physics one, lol.

Part of it is the "drag" created by "humidity" versus drier air, part of it is the altitude.

Thanks. 8:30 and I already learned something. Guess I can call it a day.

Iguana775
03-02-2007, 09:53 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/279795,CST-SPT-soxnt02.article



he would be a HUGE assest for the pen or rotation if he can make the team. Hopefully he can keep it up.

ondafarm
03-02-2007, 11:08 AM
A knuckleball is the only "normal" pitch I'm aware of that counts on exterior forces to move. In this case, differing densities on opposite sides of the ball, to move in a direction differently every time.

In Arizona, the air is thinner at altitude and also dryer. Since fewer water molecules are present in the air there, the ball doesn't experience enough friction for good lateral movement of a knuckleball. Curveballs don't have quite the bite of elsewhere either.

These conditions can occur in Chicago but are extremely rare.

soxfanatlanta
03-02-2007, 11:14 AM
These conditions can occur in Chicago but are extremely rare.


Unless you are Jamie Navarro :tongue:

SBSoxFan
03-02-2007, 01:14 PM
A knuckleball is the only "normal" pitch I'm aware of that counts on exterior forces to move. In this case, differing densities on opposite sides of the ball, to move in a direction differently every time.

In Arizona, the air is thinner at altitude and also dryer. Since fewer water molecules are present in the air there, the ball doesn't experience enough friction for good lateral movement of a knuckleball. Curveballs don't have quite the bite of elsewhere either.

These conditions can occur in Chicago but are extremely rare.

Which has always made me wonder why a team would train in Arizona instead of Florida. Wouldn't it be easier to evaluate (pitching) talent in Florida?

munchman33
03-02-2007, 01:31 PM
Though I think Floyd will eventually win the job, I'd love to see Haeger win the 5th starter spot. It would bring a good bit of national media attention to our team.

ChiSoxLifer
03-02-2007, 01:44 PM
Now I know Charlie has had one good outing and Floyd hasn't yet pitched. However, it really seems like no matter how well Haeger pitches Ozzie's got him pegged for the bullpen. I don't care if a guy is throwing a 50 mph dancer or 100 mph heat, if he's getting hitters out why not start him?

munchman33
03-02-2007, 01:49 PM
Now I know Charlie has had one good outing and Floyd hasn't yet pitched. However, it really seems like no matter how well Haeger pitches Ozzie's got him pegged for the bullpen. I don't care if a guy is throwing a 50 mph dancer or 100 mph heat, if he's getting hitters out why not start him?

The job is Floyd's to lose. If both guys pitch well, Haeger gets the pen. Not because that's necessarily what they've respectively earned, but because Haeger, being a knuckleballer, could more easily make the transition to throwing every day.

johnr1note
03-02-2007, 02:30 PM
Unless you are Jamie Navarro :tongue:

This made me laugh!!

ondafarm
03-02-2007, 02:49 PM
Now I know Charlie has had one good outing and Floyd hasn't yet pitched. However, it really seems like no matter how well Haeger pitches Ozzie's got him pegged for the bullpen. I don't care if a guy is throwing a 50 mph dancer or 100 mph heat, if he's getting hitters out why not start him?

Take this for what its worth. I did catch 12 starters in my three years as a minor league catcher, 10 of whom played big league ball (in Japan.)

Floyd should have his stuff ready and should be ready to go as a starter. He did just need a change of scenery. If he's not, then there is very little anybody could do to help him, maybe he could work groundscrew with Zach Greincke (sp?) The knuckleball takes years to master and can be thrown rubber armed. I know that Wilbur Wood started both games of at least one doubleheader for the Sox. One worries about Floyd's arm, one doesn't worry about Haeger's arm. Another year at AAA helps Charlie. Another year at AAA destroys Floyd.

If Charlie sticks with the 2007 White Sox its in the pen and as emergency starter.

UserNameBlank
03-02-2007, 05:51 PM
I never thought of this before, but isn't Charlie Heager the perfect name for a knuckleballer? Maybe he was born to do this.

Vernam
03-02-2007, 08:26 PM
Floyd should have his stuff ready and should be ready to go as a starter. He did just need a change of scenery. If he's not, then there is very little anybody could do to help him, maybe he could work groundscrew with Zach Greincke (sp?) The knuckleball takes years to master and can be thrown rubber armed. I know that Wilbur Wood started both games of at least one doubleheader for the Sox. One worries about Floyd's arm, one doesn't worry about Haeger's arm. Another year at AAA helps Charlie. Another year at AAA destroys Floyd.Yeah, I agree and -- not that I'm saying KW and Ozzie would base their decision on this -- sending Haeger back down does nothing to harm his value, but sending Floyd down makes him damaged goods in terms of a possible trade. These "politics" do enter into the roster decisions, let's face it. I think it's the main reason Floyd is the leading contender for our 5th starter slot. But I also believe, if one of the other contenders has a monster spring to prove he's ready, the Sox wouldn't hesitate to send Floyd to the 'pen.

Vernam