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caulfield12
03-01-2007, 06:00 PM
Sisco continues to show very good stuff but relaxed and walked two hitters again today and managed to wiggle out of it. That's 4 walks in his last 2 outings, including his intrasquad game Monday.

Gio was simply dominating in one inning and had 2 strikeouts.

It will be interesting to see if/when he figures into the LH relief situation as a candidate for the third spot, or if the White Sox are determined to let him be a starter in AAA.

Broadway had a rough start (3 walks in one inning, walking in two with the bases loaded to relieve vazquez), but settled down in the second inning.

DMarte708
03-01-2007, 06:13 PM
Broadway had a rough start (3 walks in one inning, walking in two with the bases loaded to relieve vazquez), but settled down in the second inning.
He did settle down...........if you considering surrendering a no doubt HR settling down.

veeter
03-01-2007, 06:16 PM
He did settle down...........if you considering surrendering a no doubt HR settling down.He had 2.2 innings and 1 earned run. Not too bad. Solo homers are no big deal. So, I'd agree that he settled down.

DMarte708
03-01-2007, 06:20 PM
He had 2.2 innings and 1 earned run. Not too bad. Solo homers are no big deal. So, I'd agree that he settled down.
Sounds like the Damaso Marte excuse. Sure, his line doesn't look bad; but for a finesse pitcher to walk several batters isn't very good.

And, just to avoid people screaming, no -- this doesn't mean I've given up on him. I'm judging his performance from today, alone.

Jurr
03-01-2007, 06:20 PM
It just keeps looking more and more obvious that Gio Gonzalez should get a shot at the fifth spot if he keeps pitching well. I just love the idea of having some lefty action in the rotation besides Buehrle.

But, I realize the arguement of not rushing a kid too quickly. It's just that Gavin Floyd isn't exactly money in the bank, and isn't too terribly more experienced than Gio.

veeter
03-01-2007, 06:25 PM
Sounds like the Damaso Marte excuse. Sure, his line doesn't look bad; but for a finesse pitcher to walk several batters isn't very good.

And, just to avoid people screaming, no -- this doesn't mean I've given up on him. I'm judging his performance from today, alone.DMarte708 citing the Damaso Marte excuse,...that's gold. C'mon, it's the kid's first outing this year. And Josh Fields is going to be a MONSTER.

DMarte708
03-01-2007, 06:26 PM
It just keeps looking more and more obvious that Gio Gonzalez should get a shot at the fifth spot if he keeps pitching well. I just love the idea of having some lefty action in the rotation besides Buehrle.

But, I realize the arguement of not rushing a kid too quickly. It's just that Gavin Floyd isn't exactly money in the bank, and isn't too terribly more experienced than Gio.
I can't speak for the organization, but I don't believe they'd push Gonzalez forward without pitching in AAA first. We're not that desperate for starting pitching.

What I don't like from Guillen quotes, and the inferences of various newspapers, is how Floyd has been given the "inside track" for the 5th starters spot? Um, why? Atleast at this point. He hasn't even thrown to an opposing batter since being traded for.

DMarte708
03-01-2007, 06:28 PM
DMarte708 citing the Damaso Marte excuse,...that's gold. C'mon, it's the kid's first outing this year. And Josh Fields is going to be a MONSTER.
So? He pitched poorly in my opinion. I'm not attempting to forecast his career with the White Sox. Just today.

....and the screen name was created in Apr. 2004. You know, when Marte was good.

ondafarm
03-01-2007, 06:29 PM
I can't speak for the organization, but I don't believe they'd push Gonzalez forward without pitching in AAA first. We're not that desperate for starting pitching.

What I don't like from Guillen quotes, and the inferences of various newspapers, is how Floyd has been given the "inside track" for the 5th starters spot? Um, why? Atleast at this point. He hasn't even thrown to an opposing batter since being traded for.

Everything revolves around the big league club. Guys who will be helpful are kept. If Gio is ready, there is no question he'd belong in the rotation. Floyd may be ready as well. Would the Sox trade Vazquez if they had two good to go guys?

veeter
03-01-2007, 06:29 PM
They gave up Freddy for him, so to save face, they have to use him. Hopefully he'll be o.k. But if Gio turns out to be special, trading Freddy could be worth that alone. I just hope someday we'll get Freddy back.



Just kidding.

Jurr
03-01-2007, 06:41 PM
They gave up Freddy for him, so to save face, they have to use him. Hopefully he'll be o.k. But if Gio turns out to be special, trading Freddy could be worth that alone. I just hope someday we'll get Freddy back.



Just kidding.
That's the beauty of the two-fer. If one of these guys becomes a strong starter for us, then you just swapped an aging starter with declining stuff for a future long term stabilizer of the rotation. I hated to see Freddy go, but it makes absolutely perfect sense.

HotelWhiteSox
03-01-2007, 06:47 PM
I hate evaluating in ST. I guess it's better later on, but still. It's kind of funny on this site though, if a guy does bad it's 'Oh, it's only ST, you can't tell', but if someone does well it's 'he's lookin good!, etc'. I like more of the former

WhiteSox5187
03-01-2007, 06:54 PM
It's hard to judge a guy based on his first ST outting. I'm glad to he looked good, but I'm going to wait a couple of days before I start saying whether or not I think he belongs in the bigs right away.

goon
03-01-2007, 07:47 PM
Charlie Haegar pitched well today, 2 hits, 1 SO, 2 scoreless innings. I hope he keeps it up and makes a run at the 5th spot.

oeo
03-01-2007, 07:48 PM
I hate evaluating in ST. I guess it's better later on, but still. It's kind of funny on this site though, if a guy does bad it's 'Oh, it's only ST, you can't tell', but if someone does well it's 'he's lookin good!, etc'. I like more of the former

Boone Logan is a very good example of this.

SoxxoS
03-01-2007, 07:50 PM
Charlie Haegar pitched well today, 2 hits, 1 SO, 2 scoreless innings. I hope he keeps it up and makes a run at the 5th spot.

I think he is the favorite

chisoxmike
03-01-2007, 07:53 PM
I hate evaluating in ST. I guess it's better later on, but still. It's kind of funny on this site though, if a guy does bad it's 'Oh, it's only ST, you can't tell', but if someone does well it's 'he's lookin good!, etc'. I like more of the former

Yeah. And for some reason people that are the "x player looks great/dominate/second coming of Christ" are never given crap, but the people who say "so and so looked like utter dog ****" are given the dark cloud tag and ridiculed for it.

:rolleyes:

The best judge of players in ST (if there should be any) to me, is the last week of ST.

oeo
03-01-2007, 07:59 PM
Yeah. And for some reason people that are the "x player looks great/dominate/second coming of Christ" are never given crap, but the people who say "so and so looked like utter dog ****" are given the dark cloud tag and ridiculed for it.

:rolleyes:

The best judge of players in ST (if there should be any) to me, is the last week of ST.

Well considering no one could see them play until today (unless you went to Arizona)...and that was on MLB TV, no one can say that a guy looked like ****. We don't know what they were throwing, or what they were working on mechanics-wise. Right now, I'd say guys are just trying to get their throws in, so I wouldn't worry about it. If they're sucking it up into late March, then you can be worried (and I'm talking about individuals, not losing).

Frater Perdurabo
03-01-2007, 09:05 PM
I just hope someday we'll get Freddy back.

Me too! In fact, let's trade Anderson (the Sox haven't won jack with him in CF) and Mackowiak (him either) and Thome (he's not a grinder) for Freddy and Rowand. Then the Sox will be set to win it all!

:D:

gobears1987
03-01-2007, 09:40 PM
....and the screen name was created in Apr. 2004. You know, when Marte was good.
I'm not so sure about that last statement. I seem to recall a certain opening day.

Sargeant79
03-01-2007, 09:52 PM
Charlie Haegar pitched well today, 2 hits, 1 SO, 2 scoreless innings. I hope he keeps it up and makes a run at the 5th spot.

I think I just heard on an update on ESPN 1000 that they're going to keep Floyd out for another 10 days. Anyone else catch that or did I hear wrong?

Either way, I think Haeger may very well pitch himself into the 5th spot, especially if Floyd winds up behind everyone else. But as is being discussed in this thread, there are other options. KW did a really nice job of allowing for having young arms to choose from if someone gets hurt or doesn't get the job done.

I fully acknowledge that I'm suppressing memories of 2004 in making the following statement, but I truly believe that out of a group that includes Gio, Danks, Floyd, and Haegar, one of them is bound to stick as at least a serviceable 5th starter this year.

delben91
03-01-2007, 10:04 PM
I think I just heard on an update on ESPN 1000 that they're going to keep Floyd out for another 10 days. Anyone else catch that or did I hear wrong?



Not sure, but here's what the official site says (http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070301&content_id=1821924&vkey=spt2007news&fext=.jsp&c_id=cws).

Floyd, considered to be the fifth starter frontrunner, originally was scheduled to follow Jose Contreras to the mound Friday. But Floyd now is set to start Saturday against Arizona, with Nick Masset moving up from Saturday's start to throw Friday.

caulfield12
03-02-2007, 08:10 AM
I think I just heard on an update on ESPN 1000 that they're going to keep Floyd out for another 10 days. Anyone else catch that or did I hear wrong?

Either way, I think Haeger may very well pitch himself into the 5th spot, especially if Floyd winds up behind everyone else. But as is being discussed in this thread, there are other options. KW did a really nice job of allowing for having young arms to choose from if someone gets hurt or doesn't get the job done.

I fully acknowledge that I'm suppressing memories of 2004 in making the following statement, but I truly believe that out of a group that includes Gio, Danks, Floyd, and Haegar, one of them is bound to stick as at least a serviceable 5th starter this year.

Where are the Danny Wright, Mike Porzio, Josh Stewart, Arnie Munoz and Felix Diaz fan clubs rising up to defend their honor?

hold2dibber
03-03-2007, 02:41 PM
That's the beauty of the two-fer. If one of these guys becomes a strong starter for us, then you just swapped an aging starter with declining stuff for a future long term stabilizer of the rotation. I hated to see Freddy go, but it makes absolutely perfect sense.

It makes absolutely perfect sense if you're goal is to win in 2008. If your goal is to win in 2007, not as much. It's highly unlikely that either Floyd or Gio will be as good as Garcia in 2007.

balke
03-03-2007, 03:30 PM
The thing I don't get about Freddy Garcia is we took a chance on the guy that he would be as good as once was again, and possibly better. He was as good as he was again, and possibly better. He didn't ask for money yet. He's still kinda young. He's friends with Ozzie. They didn't get much in return. :?:


I will be pleasantly surprised if Floyd works out, but that's a big IF right now. Strange move in my book. If they were gonna do that move, you'd think they would've done it with Buehrle for better prospects.

Believe It!
03-03-2007, 04:52 PM
It makes absolutely perfect sense if you're goal is to win in 2008. If your goal is to win in 2007, not as much. It's highly unlikely that either Floyd or Gio will be as good as Garcia in 2007.

2006 White Sox w/Freddy Garcia = NO PLAYOFFS

what makes you think 2007 would have been any different, without the trade it still would've been basically the same team

I like Freddy, but nothing lasts forever, it was time for a change

veeter
03-03-2007, 05:52 PM
2006 White Sox w/Freddy Garcia = NO PLAYOFFS

what makes you think 2007 would have been any different, without the trade it still would've been basically the same team

I like Freddy, but nothing lasts forever, it was time for a changeThat was in no way Freddy's fault.

ondafarm
03-03-2007, 06:18 PM
It makes absolutely perfect sense if you're goal is to win in 2008. If your goal is to win in 2007, not as much. It's highly unlikely that either Floyd or Gio will be as good as Garcia in 2007.

Disagree 100%. A starting pitcher who loses concentration during major league games against anybody, who pays so little attention to baserunners that my mother could steal on him and pretty much forces the offense to put up big numbers for him to win (by giving up rallys whenever we've scored) is doing nothing but dragging the TEAM down.

A couple of up and comers fighting for the chance to be in the rotation is just what the 2007 Sox needed to light a fire under the whole pitching staff.

soxinem1
03-03-2007, 07:22 PM
That was in no way Freddy's fault.

Oh no? Mr. 'I Have A Tough Time Getting Up For Playing Crappy Teams' Garcia, along w Buerhle and Vazquez sunk the ship because they couldn't beat the teams they should have.

All the losses agains BAL, KC, and TB hurt.

veeter
03-03-2007, 11:41 PM
Oh no? Mr. 'I Have A Tough Time Getting Up For Playing Crappy Teams' Garcia, along w Buerhle and Vazquez sunk the ship because they couldn't beat the teams they should have.

All the losses agains BAL, KC, and TB hurt.If all our starters were 8 games over .500 we win the division. So no, it's not on Freddy at all, IMO.

IndianWhiteSox
03-04-2007, 01:42 PM
It makes absolutely perfect sense if you're goal is to win in 2008. If your goal is to win in 2007, not as much. It's highly unlikely that either Floyd or Gio will be as good as Garcia in 2007.

The thing is, if Gavin Floyd is making as much progress as he is right now, then there's a reason to think why he'll be successful this year.

Believe It!
03-04-2007, 01:44 PM
If all our starters were 8 games over .500 we win the division. So no, it's not on Freddy at all, IMO.


Never said it WAS Freddy's fault. But a change HAD to be made IMO.

IndianWhiteSox
03-04-2007, 01:59 PM
Never said it WAS Freddy's fault. But a change HAD to be made IMO.

Not to mention, he was the guy you could get the most value for with him being a national name and all. But what still strikes me about the deal is that if the White Sox just paid 1/2 of Garcia's salary, then they would have probably gotten someone like Cole Hamels or Haigwood. But then again, KW is a 100000000000X better GM and talent evaluator than I am so I'll just be quiet about the deal and cheer on Gavin Floyd.

champagne030
03-04-2007, 02:05 PM
Not to mention, he was the guy you could get the most value for with him being a national name and all. But what still strikes me about the deal is that if the White Sox just paid 1/2 of Garcia's salary, then they would have probably gotten someone like Cole Hamels or Haigwood. But then again, KW is a 100000000000X better GM and talent evaluator than I am so I'll just be quiet about the deal and cheer on Gavin Floyd.

No, they wouldn't have received Hamels even if they paid all of Garcia's salary. Haigwood was traded to Texas by the Phillies last season for Fabio Castro.

IndianWhiteSox
03-04-2007, 02:07 PM
No, they wouldn't have received Hamels even if they paid all of Garcia's salary. Haigwood was traded to Texas by the Phillies last season for Fabio Castro.

OK then, that explains everything although that's odd, two ex-Sox farmhands being traded for each other.

caulfield12
03-04-2007, 02:12 PM
No, they wouldn't have received Hamels even if they paid all of Garcia's salary. Haigwood was traded to Texas by the Phillies last season for Fabio Castro.

Putting Hamels and Haigwood in the same sentence is like putting Crede and Chris Snopek in the same sentence.

We could have given them an extra $15 million and they probably wouldn't have traded Hamels to us. And we never send money over a million (or eat a contract) that's not a pretty small one.

IndianWhiteSox
03-04-2007, 04:13 PM
Putting Hamels and Haigwood in the same sentence is like putting Crede and Chris Snopek in the same sentence.

We could have given them an extra $15 million and they probably wouldn't have traded Hamels to us. And we never send money over a million (or eat a contract) that's not a pretty small one.

:?:

Didn't we have to do that in 2004 when the Sox traded Billy Koch to the Marlins for some crappy SS.